Obesity
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I will not speak for very long, but it is worth highlighting some of the issues that have been raised in a comprehensive way. I congratulate the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) on securing this debate.
Obesity in the UK is a growing problem. In 1993, only 13% of men and 16% of women were obese, but in 2009, 22% of men—and 24% of women—were obese, which represents almost a doubling of the number of men with obesity. I am not talking about people with a body mass index of between 25 and 30, which means that they are overweight; I am talking about obesity. Almost a quarter of the UK population is obese and I am sure that we all find that unacceptable.
How can we deal with obesity effectively, because whatever previous Governments have done, obesity has not been addressed in a way that has worked or has been effective? First, I will briefly outline how Government policy is moving towards more community-based interventions on obesity, and I will explain how that approach, through the health and wellbeing boards that will be set up under the health care reforms, will be effective and work well. Secondly, I will talk a little about nudge theory, because I am more hopeful and optimistic about it than my medical colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston). There is good evidence elsewhere, particularly in Iceland, that it has worked, and I hope it will also work effectively in relation to obesity.
Jim Shannon
While the hon. Gentleman is giving us his thoughts, and given his experience in his previous job, will he comment on gastric band operations? Just two weeks ago, I had occasion to visit the Northern Ireland Health Minister, Edwin Poots, with some of my constituents. These people had tried everything to lose weight; they had tried dieting and exercise—some of them were not able to exercise, which was the other problem—but they had clear medical and health problems. As a last resort—this really is the last chance saloon, or the last chance restaurant, perhaps—should regions and Health Ministers set aside money specifically for gastric band operations?
Dr Poulter
We certainly have to look at how the Government can help people to take more responsibility for their own health care. That is fundamental to obesity issues, and it is a particular challenge in more deprived areas. People often require gastric bands at the point where the medical problems associated with obesity—diabetes, the risk of heart attack or stroke, or high blood pressure—pose a potentially life-threatening risk. Such people may not have that long to live if a gastric band is not put in place, so it is the only feasible mechanism for dealing with obesity in such cases. Gastric bands have been shown to be an effective mechanism for looking after that part of the population, and there is good medical evidence to support their use. There is also good evidence in terms of the health care economics, as helping people to become slimmer will lessen the burden on the NHS.
The gastric band is good for the patient, because their health improves dramatically when it is used effectively, but the challenge with obesity is to bring about long-term lifestyle change, and the question with gastric bands is whether they necessarily deal with long-term lifestyle changes. In a medical sense, there needs to be greater emphasis on the education that goes with the bigger issues around obesity and lifestyle at the same time as the gastric band is fitted. I hope that that helps to answer the hon. Gentleman’s question.
Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend share my concern that celebrities regularly have gastric bands fitted, with the result that the bands are now seen as a shortcut to losing weight? People think that celebrities have them, so we must all have them.
Dr Poulter
That is a good point. There is good evidence that the celebrity culture around dieting causes anorexia in young girls. It would be much better for us and for many of our constituents if celebrities sometimes showed greater responsibility in the way in which they behaved. Gastric bands are an effective way of dealing with severe obesity, but they should not be used as a general method of bringing about weight loss. Weight loss is about education and people taking responsibility for their own weight and lifestyle. It is also about putting support in place in communities to let people do that, particularly in more deprived areas.
Mr Dodds
I have heard constituents talk about the use of statins and polypills. These medications have enormously beneficial effects for many people, and many people need them, but people almost seem to think, “Well, we have this magic pill available. We can eat and drink as much as we like, and then we can go on this pill.” Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that we need more education about the use of such medications? At the moment, people are under the impression that there is something out there that can solve all these problems without their having to do anything to change their lifestyle.
Dr Poulter
Yes, certainly. There is an issue about how physicians prescribe effectively. Statins are an effective way of controlling cholesterol, and there is good evidence that they benefit people with heart disease and high cholesterol and that they increase life expectancy. There has been a lot of research, and I believe that it has been shown that statins may have beneficial effects in reducing the risk of breast cancer, although the Minister will correct me if I am wrong.
The right hon. Gentleman touches on the wider point that the emphasis in this debate needs to be on effective community-led interventions that tackle obesity and health care, and my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) discussed that very effectively. However, we need to ask how we will make those community health care measures effective.
The Government are setting up health and wellbeing boards, which are a very useful part of their health care reforms, because they will, for the first time, bring together different organisations in a meaningful way. Local councils in certain towns may run good community initiatives that connect GPs with leisure centres, exercise and sport, and some schools may encourage sport and physical activity in an effective way or have good links with local sports clubs. However, that does not often happen in a co-ordinated way across whole counties or, indeed, across the country. Health and wellbeing boards will help to bring together different organisations to address key public health problems, and obesity is a key public health challenge in all our constituencies.
As part of the health care reforms, the health and wellbeing boards will be able to address issues such as obesity. For example, if we know that there is an issue with teenage pregnancy or obesity in certain schools or among certain schoolchildren in my constituency, targeted interventions can be put in place in a much more community-focused way by getting the local authority together with health care representatives at a much more strategic level. That must be a good thing, because it allows much more targeted interventions.
The second thing I want briefly to discuss—I do not want to speak for much longer—is nudge theory. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes has a slightly different view of it. I have more faith in nudge theory than she does, and I say that because we have had debates about agriculture—some of the Opposition Members here today were present—in which we discussed the need for corporate firms and supermarkets to show greater corporate responsibility on issues such as food labelling. We have now seen active movement from some supermarkets on honest food labelling. For example, we talk about food in a store being labelled British only if it is actually farmed in Britain, and not if it is merely processed or sliced here. We are beginning to see such initiatives come through, with supermarkets supporting British farmers. Morrisons is a good example of a supermarket where the British food stamp actually means something, and that allows consumers to make an informed choice. Supermarkets are therefore able to show corporate responsibility when they are asked to do so, although things are not entirely perfect, as we all know.
In a similar vein, the Government have introduced a public health responsibility deal, and it is a good initiative. Almost 200 different companies have signed up to the deal, including supermarkets such as Asda, the Co-op, Morrisons, Marks and Spencer, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, Waitrose and many others. Fast-food outlets such as McDonald’s, Pizza Hut and KFC have pledged to remove trans fats and introduce calorie labelling as a result of this initiative. Those are all pleasing and beneficial steps in the right direction.
Dr Wollaston
Does my hon. Friend share my concern, however, that organisations such as Asda, which have signed up to the new responsibility deal, are in some ways undermining it by offering hugely discounted alcohol products?
Dr Poulter
There are areas of obvious concern, where supermarkets can go further. As I said earlier, when we were talking about the agricultural sector, even though several supermarkets are backing honest food labelling, and showing responsibility in food labelling and calorie counting to tackle obesity, it is right to highlight the areas in which they need to show greater corporate responsibility. Cut-price alcohol is one of those, and we will continue to monitor it carefully in our work on the Select Committee on Health, and as physicians. My hon. Friend makes a good point.
In preparing for the debate, although I do not normally take an active interest in children’s TV, I found out about an Icelandic TV show called “LazyTown”—the Minister may want to expand on the subject a little later. The show is watched by children all over the world, and we have it in Great Britain as well. There is a healthy sports superhero character, called Sportacus, who motivates children to eat healthily and be active. In Iceland several “LazyTown” initiatives have been run in partnership with the Government and the private sector. For example, children between four and seven years old were sent an energy contract, which they and their parents signed, in which they were rewarded for eating healthily, going to bed early and being active. In one supermarket chain, all the fruit and vegetables were branded “sports candy”, which is the “LazyTown” name for fruit and vegetables. That led to a 22% increase in sales at that supermarket, and improved health and reduced obesity levels in Iceland.
The fact that Iceland’s child obesity levels have started to fall as a result of initiatives of that kind is good evidence in support of such corporate responsibility. Those initiatives are designed to support supermarkets coming together with Government, to make effective use of the nudge theory of improving behaviour, and they can work—and have worked. For that reason, we must support what the Government are doing, because there is evidence that it can work. It is a good thing and the evidence from Iceland is that we need to do what works, with children and communities.
I understand, and I am sure that the Minister will confirm, that the Department of Health has set up a partnership with “LazyTown” and is interested in expanding that initiative in the United Kingdom. We need more such approaches. The reason supermarkets sign up to such deals and initiatives is that it is good not just for the children, who become healthier and less obese, but for the supermarket and its brand image. Supermarkets see that working with corporate responsibility—we see it in our constituencies with Tesco schools vouchers—can enhance their image and custom, and do real good, for example, by reducing obesity levels.
I have greater faith in the nudge theory than my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes, and we need to allow similar initiatives to take root in the future. What has been done in the past has not worked very well; obesity levels have been going up. We have good evidence, from examples of corporate responsibility, that things can be tackled, so let us give nudge theory a chance. Let us also look to those health and wellbeing boards to provide community-based interventions that will work. If we do not do something, things will get worse, and the boards are a good way to address the problem.
Mr Burns
I will give way in a moment. It is also important to say that, if we can get an agreement with commercial companies to change the way they behave and some of their practices, it will be far quicker to achieve that and put it in place than to wait for the heavy hand of Government legislation, which can take a minimum of a year and sometimes years. Why wait for the heavy hand of legislation that might take a long time, if we can get a voluntary agreement that will work quicker and more effectively to start dealing with the problem?
Mr Burns
I understand the hon. Lady’s point, because the charge has been made on a number of occasions and I have considerable sympathy with it. The supermarket at which I shop each week—I shall not name it, because I do not want to advertise for it—does not do that any more. I think that the hon. Lady will find that, throughout the country, the responsible supermarkets have stopped that practice, for the very reasons that she has mentioned.
Dr Poulter
Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to be careful about introducing regulation for alcohol and other relevant products? It could be a very crude measure and have unforeseen consequences. For example, on alcohol, we may be concerned about the cheap sale of white cider, but the bigger issue is that introducing legislation may impact on brands that market themselves responsibly to responsible drinkers. We have to be careful about that sort of thing.
Mr Burns
My hon. Friend makes a valid point.
I will address a number of issues that some of my hon. Friends have raised. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) talked about the important issue of weighing and measuring children. I hope that she will be reassured by the national child measurement programme. It measures children in reception class—four to five-year-olds—and in year 6. Those measurements and weights are fed back to parents, so that they can not only know the information, but make informed choices about the lifestyles of their children.
My hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) made some valid and good points about the planning regime and open spaces that enable parents and children to exercise. His points were well made and sensible. It would be worthwhile for local government, which has responsibility for the issue, to read what he has had to say, particularly, as the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington has said, because certain inner-city areas do not have the advantages of some of the more rural and smaller town constituencies, which have far more access to open spaces.
As a Government, our general approach to tackling the problem is based on the latest scientific evidence on the underlying issues and causes of obesity, as well as what has worked best previously. Ultimately, there is a simple equation: people put on weight because they consume more calories than they need.
Patient Security (Mental Health System)
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Nicky Morgan
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I have seen the subject of his Adjournment debate later this week. Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to go into that level of detail, but I shall come to the quality of care and to demonstrate that it has a huge impact on the absconding rate for patients. As I shall come on to mention, this is an issue on which the Department of Health and the trusts could work together. Interested Members or other interested parties should see the link between absconding and the quality of care given. There is no doubt that there are innovative ways of ensuring that patients do not feel the need to abscond, and that if they are outside the environment, of ensuring that they will come back because they know that they will receive therapeutic treatment.
As I was saying, despite all the caveats, the numbers are simply too high for organisations that owe their patients a duty of care. The fifth agreed objective in the Government’s mental health strategy launched earlier this year stated:
“Fewer people will suffer avoidable harm—people receiving care and support should have confidence that the services they use are of the highest quality and at least as safe as any other public service.”
This is, of course, an objective that anyone who has an interest in any health service, but particularly mental health services, would want to see met. The fact is that guidance is already in place for mental health trusts and for those working within them to follow, although it would be fair to say that a lot of that guidance deals with how to react to an incident of absconding rather than offering concrete guidance on prevention. In the case of my constituent, the coroner expressly found that
“it would appear that the hospital had a system and policies in place to protect and supervise Kirsty from harm but at all material times those caring for her did not follow those policies.”
That is just not acceptable.
The Minister will remember the long sessions earlier this year discussing the Health and Social Care Bill in Committee Room 10 upstairs—how could we forget them? One of the recurring themes was not just that we all want to see high-quality services but how we ensure our health and social care services are of high quality and that everyone is focused on the primary objectives of the health system. Do we do so through inspections? Do we hope that everyone working within the health system works to their own high standards, as many thousands of employees surely do? Do we ensure that guidance is not only available but followed? And do we ensure that when things go wrong, as in the case of my constituent, thorough investigations follow and lessons are learned? Surely it must be a combination of all those things.
As I mentioned, hospital wards are meant to be places of therapy, but too often, especially in the case of mental health wards, they are anything but. In a recent report, the Centre for Social Justice said:
“Hospitals tend to be untherapeutic and dangerous places”.
In helping me to prepare for this debate, Mind sent me a note saying:
“The quality of care quite clearly has an impact on a patient’s decision to abscond. Unfortunately, as Mind’s forthcoming acute and crisis care campaign will show, people in inpatient settings often experience substandard quality, with no meaningful activities, little or no interaction with staff or each other, and at worst, lack of safety, abuse and coercive treatment.”
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that one problem—she has done well in bringing this debate before us this evening—is the fact that people often become labelled when they are in a mental health care setting, whereas what we need to do if we are to deal with the issue properly is to break down and challenge those labels, so that the patient is not seen just as a mental health patient but as a person? All the therapies and preventive measures she is talking about relate to that issue. If we can get that right, we will be able to look at people and treat them in the way that they deserve—with respect, which will help to prevent the episodes of absconding or escape that my hon. Friend mentions.
Nicky Morgan
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, who is a qualified NHS practitioner and knows far more about these matters than I do. Everything that he has said confirms the fact that we must not forget that people are at the heart of all cases of this kind—not just patients, but their families. The sooner patients receive good therapeutic treatments and can resume their place in society, the better. My hon. Friend made another important point: for too long a stigma has been attached to mental ill-health conditions, and people do not talk about them. I hope that tonight’s debate will mark the beginning of more open discussion of such conditions, in the House and beyond.
Kirsty's father told me that he believed that there was nothing to do at the unit where she was being treated. He said that there were no constructive therapies.
Rethink Mental Illness and the Royal College of Psychiatrists drew my attention to a 2010 report that had been prepared as part of the National Confidential Inquiry into Suicide and Homicide by People with Mental Illness. According to the report, between 1997 and 2006 absconders accounted for 25% of all in-patient suicides and 38% of suicides that occurred off the wards. Absconding patients were also significantly more likely to have been under high levels of observation, but clinicians reported more problems in the observation of those who had absconded owing to ward design or other patients in the ward. The report made three recommendations for improvement: that staff need to pay better attention, not just to patients but to ward exits; that observation methods should improve, as there was little evidence regarding the protective effect of close observation, and high levels of observation may be ineffective for people who are intent on leaving the ward; and that there should be an increased focus on engagement and support by staff when patients are admitted.
However, as Mind pointed out to me, there is evidence that when wards take a more innovative approach to in-patient care, there are fewer incidences of both aggression and absconding. There is already an incentive for our mental health trusts to do better in terms of the treatment and care that they offer to in-patients.
Let me end by drawing all those thoughts together. First, we need more research in order to understand the scale of the problem. The information that I have obtained is, I hope, a good start, but I think that the Department could insist that trusts use one set of definitions so that numbers can be properly compared, and that trusts with low incidences of absconding could share their experiences with those whose absconding rate is very much higher. The Department could also insist on publication of the information that I had to obtain under the Freedom of Information Act.
Secondly, trusts should not only follow existing guidance, but work out how they do their best to prevent patients, when they are at their most vulnerable, from absconding and causing harm to themselves. My office did not have to look very far to find seven newspaper reports about patients who had absconded this year. Six of those cases tragically ended with the patients taking their own lives, and in one case the patient killed someone else. I believe that only by encouraging trusts to take those steps will the Department stand a chance of fulfilling the fifth objective in its laudable mental health strategy.
Finally, I should like us all to remember that at the heart of this are usually very ill people and their families. Mr Brookes said to me in July this year, “We trusted the system. We paid our taxes, and we expected the best care for those who are at their most vulnerable.”
We talk a lot in the House of Commons about physical health outcomes, but the time has come for mental health to get a proper look in. As someone speaking at one of the all-party meetings on mental health said, “We all have mental health; it is just that some people’s is better than that of others.”
We are talking about people, so there are no absolutes, and there will always be those who are determined to take their own lives, but I hope that tonight, by focusing on one part of the mental health system—the security of patients being treated in hospital settings—the House can begin to make clear its desire to see real parity between physical and mental health conditions in the context of funding and treatment. I believe that if we do not do that, we will be storing up huge trouble for the country, and there will be more tragic deaths of patients like Kirsty which could perhaps be prevented.
National Health Service
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Andy Burnham
I am not sure whether I should thank the hon. Lady for reminding me that I am now a shadow of my former self, but I thank her for her words. I will come to the precise question that she asks. I did indeed say those words, and I will explain why in a moment.
I was talking about the three headline promises that the Prime Minister made on the wards. They were part of a calculated and self-serving political strategy to detoxify the Tory brand, not a genuine concern for the NHS. It was cynical because, as we will show today, those were cheques for the NHS that the Tories knew they could not cash, and promises that they had no real intention of keeping. Let us take the Prime Minister’s three personal promises in turn, starting with the one on NHS funding. It will be good to get to the bottom of that once and for all.
At the last election, Labour promised to guarantee to maintain NHS front-line funding in real terms. The now Prime Minister, by contrast, offered real-terms increases. How big those increases would be was undefined, but that did not matter. The important thing was that, according to the requirements of the detoxification strategy, it sounded as though the Tories were planning to spend more.
I remember well our resulting exchanges with the then shadow Health Secretary, now the Heath Secretary, on the hustings. Indeed, the Prime Minister has in recent weeks been quoting what I said then, as the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) did a moment ago. I did indeed say that it was cynical and irresponsible to make those promises, and I repeat that today.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
Does the right hon. Gentleman consider “protecting the front line” to be the closure of many hospitals throughout the UK, mergers and the loss of vital cardiac services in such places as Ipswich? That was exactly what happened when he was Secretary of State.
Andy Burnham
The hon. Gentleman goes right to the heart of my speech today. We made those difficult decisions to get the NHS ready for the future. We grasped the nettle and took services out of hospitals and moved them into the community, because that is what has to happen if we are to have an NHS that is sustainable for the future. He stood on an election manifesto that promised the opposite. It was a dishonest pledge, and I will come to it in a moment.
I said a moment ago that it was irresponsible to promise real-terms increases. I say that because I completed a spending review of the NHS in March 2010 and knew the figures inside out. I had also been in detailed discussions with the Treasury on the funding of adult social care, in preparation for a White Paper. The implication of what the Conservatives featured on an election poster—cutting the deficit on an accelerated timetable while giving the NHS real-terms increases—could mean only one thing: unpalatable cuts to other public services, particularly adult social care, on which the NHS relies.
Despite that, the election pledge was carried over into the coalition agreement, which could not be clearer. It states:
“We will guarantee that health spending increases in real terms in each year of the Parliament”.
A year ago, at the time of the comprehensive spending review, the official figures claimed that that had been delivered, with a 0.1% settlement—essentially the same as Labour promised at the election.
Andy Burnham
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for those words and I shall come to precisely that point, but let us be clear about this one: the Prime Minister promised a real-terms increase, but he has delivered a real-terms cut. He stands at the Dispatch Box week after week boasting about increasing health funding when he has not. All the while, NHS staff deal with the reality on the ground of his NHS cuts. Does he not realise how hopelessly out of touch he sounds? Hospitals everywhere are making severe cuts to services, closing wards, reducing A and E hours and closing overnight, making nurses redundant, and cutting training places. Last week, The Guardian revealed the random rationing that is taking place across the country. There are cuts to pay for management services, one third of neo-natal units are reducing the number of nurses, and midwife places are being cut despite the Prime Minister’s promise to recruit 3,000 more.
Dr Poulter
The right hon. Gentleman is making a great deal out of cuts. The Government have committed an extra £15 billion to the NHS over the lifetime of this Parliament, but the Opposition have consistently failed to agree to commit to any additional funding. Will he make that commitment now?
Andy Burnham
A moment ago, the hon. Gentleman acknowledged that I protected the NHS front line as Health Secretary. As Health Secretary, I would not have introduced a £2.5 billion reorganisation when the NHS is facing severe financial stress.
Grahame M. Morris
I am grateful for that intervention from my right hon. Friend and I should like to place on record, because the Secretary of State did not take the opportunity to do so, that the cap on private patient work, which had been set at 5%, is to be raised by the Bill. That must have a detrimental impact on the NHS in general, and on non-private patients, as resources are directed to the private sector and private patients.
Grahame M. Morris
I shall not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind, because I do not think I will get any injury time if I do so and I have rather a lot to get through.
I have mentioned the transfer of resources from the NHS budget to meet the growing costs of social care. We have also discovered, from evidence that was given to the Select Committee, that there has been an underspend of almost £2 billion—much of it from the capital budget, with some of it, presumably, being saved by cancelling the new hospital that was to serve my area. Meanwhile many NHS trusts are sitting on hundreds of millions of pounds of debt, and figures produced by the Department of Health show that six large NHS trusts in London are predicting year-end deficits of £170 million. The pressures on the system are enormous and will inevitably show through in reductions in services, having an impact on the front line.
The reductions in tariffs for operations and the further pressures in that area will also mean that foundation and NHS acute trusts will bear the brunt of financial pressures within the system. Again, that means that the buck and the spotlight of transparency are being passed away from the Secretary of State to the NHS Commissioning Board, although he might have to reconsider that after last night’s Lords amendments.
Another area of pressure in the NHS comes from the huge redundancy costs being incurred as a consequence of the premature closure of primary care trusts and strategic health authorities, which is estimated to cost the taxpayer more than £1 billion. The opening up of the NHS entirely to the private sector, and the prospect of the £103 billion NHS budget being taken out of the public sector and placed within the remit of shareholders in private health care companies, is anathema to the majority of the British public. The Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) is cringing, but the majority of the British public are cringing at the thought of this proposal.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
It is always a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron). He would be surprised if I agreed with everything he said, but he made some good points in the first half of his speech.
Today’s debate has been a wasted opportunity for the Opposition, because nothing positive has come out of it—nothing about how we will better look after patients or how we will address very real needs in all our constituencies. There has been a lot of mud-slinging but very little talk about what will benefit patients and how we will deliver a patient-centred NHS.
That is to the detriment of the Opposition and to the way in which they have addressed the motion. It is disingenuous of Opposition Members to attack the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Health, and to try to give the impression that my right hon. Friends do not care about the NHS. All politicians and, I believe, everyone in the country care about the NHS, but we have slightly different views about how the service should be run.
I have a great deal of time for the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) and I like her very much on a personal level, but some of her points were wrong. In particular, it was wrong to bring the Prime Minister’s personal experience into the debate. He had a difficult family circumstance, and of course someone with that background will understand the NHS very well.
Dr Poulter
The hon. Lady did not make her point very well, and she did not allow me to intervene on her. I am sure that the Minister will address the points that she made about the letter.
Mr Simon Burns
It might be useful at this stage to clear up the point about the letter. The hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) said that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had not replied to her letter, as though it had been sent months ago. It was dated 12 October, so I presume that it arrived in the Department of Health on 13 or 14 October, about 12 or 13 days ago. Hon. Members know that the guidelines, which the Department rigorously keeps to, state that it may take up to 20 days to receive a response. My right hon. Friend has not been discourteous, and the hon. Lady will receive a reply within the time scale.
Dr Poulter
I thank my hon. Friend for clarifying an earlier point.
I will not engage in mud-slinging, but will talk about what hon. Members on both sides of the House want to emerge from the NHS. The right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) was absolutely right that some service reconfiguration is necessary to deliver services in communities, improve community care and build an integrated health service with integrated health care. The right hon. Gentleman spoke specifically about an integrated system and better integrating adult social care, especially for the elderly, with current NHS providers, breaking down some of the silos between primary care, the hospital sector, and adult social services.
Barbara Keeley
Was the hon. Gentleman as concerned as I was at the Select Committee on Health on Tuesday when I asked Richard Humphries of the King’s Fund how the Health and Social Care Bill will impact on integrated commissioning? Richard Humphries said that there is a danger to integration because people are leaving PCTs, working relationships are being disrupted and broken up, and partnerships are being disrupted. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) said, we face years of disruption. That is the danger. Progress on the integration agenda was slow, but it is chaotic now.
Dr Poulter
I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. Any period of transition will be difficult, and must be managed. Will the mechanisms and bodies that the Health and Social Care Bill will put in place be better able to deliver community-focused, integrated care than the existing system? I want to consider two matters that we will come to later: health and wellbeing boards, and basing commissioning fundamentally in the community. Both are good mechanisms for delivering better integrated care, and I will return to that.
We have too many silos in the NHS. The primary care sector often does not integrate with the secondary care sector as well as we would like. For example, hospitals are paid by results, but they have no financial incentive to ensure that they prevent inappropriate hospital admissions. We talk about better looking after the frail elderly and about ensuring that we prevent people with mental health problems from reaching crisis point and having to be admitted, but there are no financial incentives and drivers in the system to ensure that that is achieved to the extent we would like. A and E admissions in many hospitals are rising year on year—in rural areas that is partly because we do not have an adequate out-of-hours GP service—and far too often the frail elderly are not properly supported in the community.
If we put the majority of commissioning into the community with local commissioning boards, that will provide a more integrated and joined-up approach to local commissioning, which will undoubtedly help to prevent inappropriate admissions. We no longer want an NHS in which people with mental health problems or the elderly present in crisis because they have not been supported in the community. That must be the focus of care, and the focus of delivery of services.
Sarah Newton
I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of integrating social care and the NHS. I want to share with him the good, concrete steps that are being taken in Cornwall, where we have a pilot health and wellbeing board, and the beginning of integration. That has not happened before in Cornwall, and we are about to have the first joint commissioning of services. That is the way forward to improve patient experience in the NHS.
Dr Poulter
I thank my hon. Friend for a helpful intervention, which makes the point very well that we need integration through community-based commissioning.
The other key factor is how better to integrate adult social care—the right hon. Member for Leigh made the point, as did the Secretary of State—into the current NHS system. At the moment, integration of services is sometimes variable. There is a good example in Torbay of a more integrated system, but what are the Government proposing that will at least facilitate the integration of services? Local health and wellbeing boards are definitely a step in the right direction because for the first time they will bring together adult social care from local authorities with housing providers, the NHS, and primary and secondary care. That must be a step in the right direction for delivering the integrated care that we all want. It will help to provide more community-focused care.
I referred to the concern about inappropriate admissions, and the fact that elderly people are not supported in their own homes. The savings in adult social care from doing things well are NHS savings, but at the moment there are different cultures in two different organisations, which do not always talk to each other in different parts of the country, and that will not benefit patients. Bringing people together on a health and wellbeing board must be good for patients and integrated care.
For all those reasons, I hope that we will have more positive Opposition day debates on the NHS, and I hope that the Opposition will at least concede that some good things are happening as a result of health care reform.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Anne Milton
I think that public health in areas such as Hull will do exceptionally well. I point out to the hon. Lady that under the previous Government, what happened in practice was that public health budgets were raided constantly and we did not get improvements. If she looks at the figures, she will see that inequalities in health widened.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that despite the previous Government’s good intentions on public health, health inequalities have widened, as she has rightly said, obesity rates are going up, smoking among young girls is going up, and alcohol abuse is a serious problem? Does she agree that it is right to deliver services with local authorities and to get into local communities and schools if we want to address these big public health challenges?
Anne Milton
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Local authorities have a long and proud tradition of improving the public’s health. Public Health England will bring together a fragmented system and strengthen our national response on emergencies and health protection. It will help public health delivery at a local level with proper evidence and leadership.
Health and Social Care (Re-committed) Bill
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Dr Poulter
The hon. Lady is making an excellent speech and has outlined the fact that there is adequate provision for counselling in the status quo. Doctors, nurses and other medical professionals who must deal with such situations every day have adequate measures in place, as the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists has outlined. They do not look only at the medical consultation, but at the whole patient, as we have heard. If that means that counselling is required, they will ensure that their patient gets it. Does she agree that this is not the place for the amendment, which serves no purpose, and that we need to get on and debate the Bill?
Ms Abbott
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is, of course, a practising doctor who knows a great deal more about these matters than many of us in the House.
As hon. Members have heard, the amendments deal with matters that are amply covered by existing law and regulations that are well known to doctors and nurses. They deal with matters that must, at the end of the day, be between a woman and a doctor. I deprecate the extent to which amendment 1 is an attempt to import American sensationalism, confrontation and politicisation into these issues in a way that will be of no benefit to ordinary women.
There is no evidence base for the amendments, and on the basis of all the recent polls there is no substantive support for amendments of this nature. Legislation addressing the issues raised by Government Members is already in place. This House should have more respect for the medical profession and for the vulnerable women who put themselves forward for abortion in one of the most difficult periods in their lives, rather than support an amendment of this nature, which is spurious and baseless. I urge the House emphatically to reject the amendment.
Owen Smith
I am ever so grateful to the hon. Lady for that intervention, because it is profoundly rich for anybody on the Government Benches to suggest that we should prevail upon an independent organisation to publish the instructions that it offered to an independent QC, when the Government will not even publish the independent advice that they have commissioned. They have refused to do so repeatedly. They will tell us that they do not agree with this independent opinion, but they absolutely will not publish their own. I suggest that she makes representations to those on her Front Bench, and I will do the same to 38 Degrees if I have a chance.
The independent legal advice goes on to say:
“Encouraged by the structure and clear intention of the Bill to give consortia autonomy from the Secretary of State,”—
which is, of course, in clause 4 of the new Bill—
“there is a real risk of an increase in the ‘postcode lottery’ nature of the delivery of some services, depending on the decisions made by consortia.”
That increase in the postcode lottery takes me on to the second set of proposals that I wish to touch on, which we believe would stop the Government effectively legislating to hardwire the postcode lottery into our NHS. We accept that it is already too variable across the country and that there needs to be greater equity and standardisation, with excellence provided to everybody across the country. That will become all the more difficult with the new provisions.
New clauses 10 and 11, which were tabled by the Labour Opposition, are designed to combat some of the possible malign consequences of the changes that hand to clinical commissioning groups the ability to determine the needs of the local health population and to set their priorities without interference or support from the Government, or indeed from regional strategic health authorities.
Owen Smith
I am delighted to give way to the hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), who has such an acute interest in Wales.
Dr Poulter
The hon. Gentleman is making some good points. Does he accept that within a national framework of gold standard and good treatment, there will be regional or local variations in the needs of patient groups? For example, given health care inequalities, mental health and the higher rates of cardiovascular problems in ethnic minority populations, patients in Bradford may have very different health care needs and priorities from patients in the area of rural Suffolk that I represent. Does he agree that the Bill goes some way towards allowing local flexibility that will better address some of the different local health care needs?
Owen Smith
I accept that there are obviously different needs and that there is a good case for a needs-based assessment model being used by PCTs in the current situation or by CCGs. Indeed, one of the amendments tabled by Liberal Democrat Members on a needs-based assessment is excellent and I wish that we had tabled it. However, the crucial difference, which I alluded to earlier, is that previously the Secretary of State has had a direct duty under section 3 of the National Health Service Act 2006 to provide and secure a whole range of relevant and necessary pieces of the health ecosystem, such as hospitals, within a given area. Under the Bill, that duty will pass to clinical commissioning groups. That is a further crucial removal of responsibility and accountability from the Secretary of State and transference of them to CCGs.
Under the aegis of the Bill, many CCGs may well plan well for their local population, and perhaps better than primary care trusts, but what if they do not? What if they get it wrong and determine for clinical reasons—or, dare I say it, because in this new world they are sitting cheek by jowl in the boardroom with commercial players who have a stake and a skin in the game financially—that they no longer feel it is “reasonable”, as the Bill puts it, to provide certain services? I think that is perfectly foreseeable.
We already know that because of the cost pressures that PCTs are under, they are having to make difficult decisions about which services they will provide and which they will not. They have always had to do that. It is just possible that CCGs will make duff decisions with which local residents disagree. As we heard earlier from my hon. Friends on the Back Benches, they will not be able to be held to account in the way that the Secretary of State, and eventually PCTs through the Secretary of State, can currently be. Those changes are critical, and I suggest that the Minister reflects on them.
Another crucial change to the Bill that we would like to be brought about is in respect of the costs of bureaucracy. We are changing from 150 PCTs to more than 250 clinical commissioning groups and counting. The latter are smaller and less strategic, and certainly less experienced in commissioning, than PCTs or strategic health authorities, and they are arguably too small to compete equitably with very large and financially powerful foundation trusts. That is a real risk. Crucially, they will also increase transaction costs, bureaucracy and administration costs.
That is why, in new clause 11, we have decided to ask the Government to put their money where their mouth is. The Minister asked earlier why we had chosen an “arbitrary” figure of 45% for a cap on the volume of expenditure on administration by CCGs. The answer is simple: it was the number that the Secretary of State came up with. He said that that was how many percentage points he was going to trim off the administration and bureaucracy costs of the NHS. He boasted that he could deliver 45% savings, so we are calling on him today to put his money where his mouth is and legislate for that. Let us measure him against that, because there is not going to be much else that we can hold him accountable for.
We have tabled new clause 10, on waiting times, because targets and standards absolutely matter in the NHS. No matter what the Government keep telling the public, we still believe in clinical targets, including some that the Government would denigrate as “bureaucratic” or “administrative” targets. In new clause 10, we ask the Government to take the power to set transparent regulations relating to waiting times. Waiting times are going up under this Government. There have been 400,000 people with long waits since the Tories came to power. The trajectory and the sense of history repeating itself are depressingly clear to me and my hon. Friends.
Health and Social Care (Re-committed) Bill
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Debbie Abrahams
There are many unanswered questions about the Bill, which makes it particularly dangerous.
By opening up competition under the guise of increasing patient choice and clinician-led commissioning, the Government are trying to increase both demand and supply for these services, but the implication for a single-payer health system with a fixed budget, such as the NHS, is that this will inevitably lead to financial meltdown. The only way this can be avoided is by injecting extra capital into the system and the Bill achieves this in many ways. We need to look at not only this cluster of amendments but all the amendments and clauses in the Bill as a whole, because they are interrelated.
First, the Bill allows foundation trusts to borrow money from the City to invest. This is supported by the opening up of EU competition law. Foundation trusts are currently social enterprises and are exempt from part of EU competition, but this opening up will open the flood gates. It means that the trusts will have to compete for tenders with private health care companies. They will have to repay the money they have borrowed by treating more and more patients, including private patients, which will be aided by the abolition of the cap on income from private patients. However, many foundation trusts will still struggle, so the Bill introduces a new insolvency regime to enable private equity companies to buy NHS facilities and asset-strip them, which has direct parallels with the demise of Southern Cross.
Secondly, waiting lists will go up. We are already seeing that across the country, including in my constituency. We have seen that already because unrealistic efficiency measures mean that cash-strapped primary care trusts are rationing access to treatment such as cataract surgery and hip replacements.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
Does the hon. Lady not accept that waiting lists have not gone up in England but have gone up in Wales, where Labour is in control of the NHS?
Debbie Abrahams
It is very interesting that the Government have changed how they measure waiting lists and now use an average, so those indicators are a movable feast.
As waiting lists go up, new health insurance products on the market are enticing people to believe that all their treatment and care can be met fully by the private sector. This will be complemented by new insurance markets set up for top-ups and co-payments. We know from the United States that people on low incomes will be less able to afford these products directly, which will impact on the existing health inequalities that the Secretary of State has stressed his commitment to reducing. Why are we doing this? It will increase and exacerbate the inequalities that already exist in accessing care.
Finally, the Bill allows both the national commissioning board and clinical commissioning groups to make charges. I foresee that in the next Parliament there will be more direct patient charges if this Government get in again. As the NHS budget is fixed, the drive for excess capacity will drain that budget rapidly. That will result in clinical commissioning consortia increasingly becoming rationing bodies. As waiting lists increase, they will attempt to manage the issue by reducing the number of core services. That will drive foundation trusts into further debt, forcing closures, mergers and private management takeovers, and we are already seeing that.
Frank Dobson
I begin with a reminder. I was one of those Labour people who voted against the establishment of foundation trusts and the setting up of Monitor. In doing so, I was supported by those on the Conservative Front Bench, so I do not think that the Conservatives should claim any consistency in these matters.
My second point is that although one would never dream it was true from listening to Ministers or their supporters, it is quite clear that the national health service is now working very well and is more popular than ever; and yet we are told that it needs a radical overhaul. However, the popularity of the national health service at the time of the last general election probably explains why both the Conservative party and the Liberal Democrats promised that there would be no top-down reorganisation of it. However, if neither the Bill as originally produced nor the post-pausal Bill that we have now is top-down change, God knows how one would define it.
The whole purpose of this Bill is to shift us away from the basic collaborative approach to the provision of health care in this country and to substitute a large amount of competition, gradually involving more and more of the private sector and, I believe, privatisation. In order to put things in perspective, it is worth pointing out that when the right hon. Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell), ceased to be the Secretary of State for Health, the national health service was performing 5.7 million operations a year in its hospitals. When Labour left office, it was performing 9.7 million operations a year, an increase of 58%. That was the result of improved working practices developed by—
Frank Dobson
No, not for the minute.
That change was the result of improved working practices developed by the people working in the national health service, not the result of any structural changes. It was also partly the result of the biggest hospital building programme in history, as well as a lot more new and better equipment, newer GP surgeries, 78,000 extra nurses and 27,000 extra doctors. Those were among the reasons that the NHS became so much more popular. It is popular because, for most people in most parts of the country most of the time, it is already doing a very good job. However, that is now going into decline, because many people working in the NHS carrying out pre-legislative preparatory work on the proposed changes are having to divert their efforts into bringing about structural change. That is one of the reasons waiting lists and waiting times are going up—something that the Government deny is happening.
Grahame M. Morris
I am happy to give way to the Minister, if he wishes to give that assurance from the Dispatch Box. It would reassure staff and members of the public. Perhaps we can read something into the Minister’s reluctance to give such an assurance.
The Government, despite the spin, are delivering one of the most radical reorganisations ever and in the view of many Opposition Members it will undermine the basic principles of the NHS. When the Health Secretary was shadow spokesman for the then Opposition, at no point did he explain his plan to apply 1980s-style privatisation mechanisms to the NHS. I am an avid follower of health policy and the idea of creating an economic regulator—as we have discovered through a series of parliamentary questions, the costs of Monitor could be £500 million in a single Parliament—is again ironic when we hear the Government talk about waste and bureaucracy.
As for exposing the NHS to competition law, I accept the point made by the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh), which was also made by my own Front Benchers, that it is not the provisions on the face of the Bill but the changes to the architecture of the NHS that will expose the NHS to European competition law—the same law, as we have heard, as applies to the utility companies. Health would be considered a commodity and £60 billion of the NHS budget would be handed over to private bodies, by which I mean those bodies that were the GP commissioning consortia, now renamed clinical commissioning groups. Despite the assurances about openness, transparency and accountability, those would be private-sector companies and my understanding is that they would not be open to FOI requests. That must be of huge concern to people who champion civil liberties, freedom and transparency. Over the past six years or so, we had no indication from the Secretary of State that he was planning such a radical change.
On the subject of the new failure regime, as set out in the amendments, having sat through the Public Bill Committee on the initial Bill as well as that on the re-committed Bill and having listened intently to the arguments, I cannot decide even now whether this is a U-turn or a side-step. I have read this huge document—the weighty tome that makes up the Bill, with all its various chapters and parts—as well as the impact study and the whole justification behind the Ministers’ arguments was that the NHS needed a market and a failure regime to boost productivity. Has that whole idea been left by the wayside?
Dr Poulter
Does the hon. Gentleman accept, however, that the previous Government failed to put in place any adequate failure regime to deal with situations such as that which occurred at Stafford hospital and that the Bill is a step towards providing a proper overview of what to do when trusts fail and let down patients?
Grahame M. Morris
I am not suggesting in any way, shape or form that every NHS organisation—be it an NHS hospital trust or a community-based organisation—is incapable of improvement. My philosophy, as someone with a bit of a scientific background, has always been that we should assemble an evidence base, pilot a proposal in one area, establish best practice, see where the faults lie, tweak it if necessary and then, if it works, roll it out. This leap-in-the dark approach is flawed and will end in tears. The service is hugely important and touches everybody’s life in this country at one time or another. The whole concept of the Bill is flawed and the way it has been prosecuted is compounding the problem.
Grahame M. Morris
I am making rather slow progress, but I did want to get on to health inequalities. My hon. Friend makes an excellent and important point. We touched on it briefly in the Bill Committee and it relates to new clause 6. I was concerned about the reports that in the allocations to PCTs and SHAs, the element set aside for addressing health inequalities had been reduced. That should concern us all, especially those who represent areas that suffer high levels of health inequality and deprivation.
It is a bit of an achievement that the Government could take the NHS at its most successful point and turn it around. Government Members have highlighted particular failings, but the NHS had a record number of doctors and nurses and a hospital building programme. There had been a transformation from waiting times of 18 months for routine operations such as knee and hip replacements or removal of cataracts to only a few weeks. The previous Government should be given some credit for that. The improvement was confirmed in patient satisfaction surveys and it is a great shame that the Government have decided not to commission the Department of Health to conduct such studies in the future. I suspect their motives in that regard.
Dr Poulter
That is a good point. Under the previous Government cataract and hip operations were done more quickly, but that was because the Labour Government commissioned private providers. The unfortunate thing was that the providers cherry-picked services and did not provide the integrated health care that this Bill will provide.
Grahame M. Morris
We had this exchange many times in the Committee on a variety of clauses. We need to give some credit to the previous Government. I am old enough to remember when people routinely waited a year, 18 months or longer for life-changing operations such as knee and hip replacements. It is a real quality-of-life issue if someone has cataracts and has to wait a long time for an operation. I accept that Labour used the private sector. I am a socialist and make no apology for that, and I want the provision to be public sector. I was not a Member of Parliament and did not vote for the commissioning of private providers, but I acknowledge that the private sector played a role in bringing extra capacity and some innovation to the service.
Rosie Cooper
I would suggest that it is a failing model, and not one that we should be looking at.
I should like to look at the idea of risk pooling, in which Monitor will have a role. Monitor will be required to top-slice the budgets of foundation trust hospitals to obtain that pool of money. The problem is that if the trust is already in financial difficulty, the fact that Monitor needs to top-slice the FT hospital’s budget could tip it into being unsustainable, and then Monitor would have to act. Does that not seem back to front? It needs looking at. If the foundation trust is unsustainable, Monitor has a duty to take action, yet Monitor may well have precipitated the situation; there seems to be a conflict at the core of that relationship. There is no clarity about how top-slicing will be calculated, or what it will involve. Will the Secretary of State please comment on that?
I shall bring my comments to a close with a quotation that I used in a speech I gave a while ago. In “This Week”, Michael Portillo was asked by Andrew Neil why the Government had not told us before the general election about their plans for the NHS. He replied:
“Because they didn’t believe they could win the election if they told you”—
the public—
“what they were going to do. People are so wedded to the NHS. It’s the nearest thing we have to a national religion—a sacred cow.”
He could not have been more clear. The Government intended to misrepresent their position and mislead voters. I believe that this is the latest stage of that misrepresentation, and the Government must be held to account if they force the Bill through in its current form.
Dr Poulter
I was hoping to begin on a more consensual note, picking up on a few things that have been said around the Chamber on which I thought we could all agree. However, I will first remind the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) of why the Government are introducing this Bill. We do have problems in the NHS. Far too much money—about £5 billion a year—is wasted on bureaucracy and could be much better spent on front-line patient care. Over the past 10 years, the number of managers in the NHS has doubled, going up six times as fast as the number of front-line nurses; the hon. Lady is very concerned about that. A lot of things need to change in the NHS so that the service can become more patient-focused and patient-centred. That is why we are making these changes and why the reforms in this Bill have to go through the House.
Particularly important—this has come out of the pause for reflection and the Future Forum report—has been an increased focus on one of the key challenges for the health service and for adult social care: better care of our growing older population. People are living a lot longer and living longer with multiple medical conditions, or co-morbidities as they would be termed in medical parlance. That is a very big human challenge for the NHS, and also a very big financial challenge. We must have a service that better meets and better responds to those challenges. The pause for reflection has led to much more focus on improved integration of care, and that will be very much to the benefit of the older patients and frail elderly whom we all care about.
We have had a lot of discussion about the benefits, or otherwise, of using the private sector. The case for the private sector may have been made much more eloquently by Labour Members than by members of the Government. The hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) argued that because the previous Government used the private sector to reduce waiting times, it was effectively used to improve patient care for patients with cataracts and for those needing hip operations or waiting for heart operations. That, in itself, was a good thing, but the problem was that the previous Government used the private sector far too much in a way that allowed it to make profits but not to look towards the integrated care that Government Members would like to see as a result of these health care reforms. As regards looking after the frail elderly, for example, there was cherry-picking of hip operations as part of orthopaedics but without the follow-up care that was required—the physiotherapy, occupational therapy and social services that those older people so badly needed. Yes, the private sector can bring value and benefits to the NHS, as the previous Government recognised, but it has to be done in an integrated way, and that is what we will do as a result of these health care reforms.
Why else do we need to reform the NHS? Are we really happy with the status quo?
Steve McCabe
Before the hon. Gentleman moves on, I want to make sure that I have understood him. Is he saying that under these plans the private sector is to be given a bigger share—a more total share—of areas of care and that it will not be isolated as a bit of expanded capacity to reduce waiting lists? Is he saying that it will have a broader role involving a total package of care for particular sectors? Is that the aim?
Dr Poulter
The aim is consistent with that of the previous Government in bringing in the private sector—to improve patient care. Where the private sector can deliver high-quality patient care—for example, by reducing waiting times—that is a good thing. The private sector can deliver high-quality care but in an integrated way. That is particularly important in the elderly care setting and in rural communities. That is absolutely consistent with what the hon. Gentleman’s Government did and what this Government are trying to build on and develop as a part of this package of reforms.
Are we really happy with the status quo—with the NHS as it stands? I have alluded to some of the waste and bureaucracy and the £5 billion that could be better spent on front-line patient care, but that would be a simplistic view of why we need to improve the NHS. We have heard the names of various bodies being bandied around today. However, on-the-ground surveys of front-line doctors and nurses show, as in a survey conducted in 2009, that in the current NHS the majority of health care staff in hospitals do not believe that looking after patients is the main priority of their NHS trust. What could be more important to a hospital than looking after its patients? The reason for that finding is that the bureaucracy in the processes of health care has often got in the way of delivering good care. Recently, a number of CQC reports throughout my part of the world—the east of England—have indicated failings, particularly in elderly care. The main focus of those reports was that staff were too bogged down with bureaucracy and paperwork and unable to look specifically at the needs of the patients right in front of them.
Dr Poulter
The point is—I speak as a front-line doctor who still practises in the NHS—that far too often we see form-filling that gets in the way of our doing our job as doctors in hospitals, and that is not for the benefit of patients.
Dr Poulter
No, sit down. The hon. Lady should listen to this, because it is important. The point is that doctors and nurses need to be allowed to get on and do their jobs.
A key focus is not just about putting more money into front-line patient care but making sure that we have clinical leadership of services. Form-filling for the sake of it does not benefit patients; what benefits patients is allowing doctors to treat those in front of them. Under the perverse incentives that were created previously, the four-hour wait in A and E means that a patient with a broken toe is just as much of a priority as someone with potentially life-threatening chest pain. That is the problem with the service that we have, and that is why the clinical leadership and focus that this Bill is bringing will be so important.
Dr Poulter
I am going to make a little progress. Other speakers want to contribute, so I hope that the hon. Lady will forgive me for not taking her intervention.
The Bill focuses on integration and looks to improve the care particularly of our frail elderly. There is too much silo working in the health service—in primary care, in secondary care and in adult social services. The Bill seeks to integrate services through the role provided by Monitor in helping to provide an overarching view of value for the patient and through the setting up of health and wellbeing boards at local level. That is intended to provide better integration of adult social care with NHS care, which has not happened in all parts of the country.
The hon. Member for Easington made a very good speech in which he said that care was hugely variable throughout different parts of England. That is because in many areas we do not have properly joined-up thinking about how things are done. For example, hospitals are paid on payment by results, but there is no incentive necessarily to reduce admissions and to provide much more focused community care, which would be so important in improving the care of the frail elderly in their communities and in their homes. The Bill is starting to take the first steps towards that sort of joined-up thinking.
If Labour Members are concerned about this, the point was well made by Lord Warner in his recent comments as part of the Dilnot report. The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) laughs, but he served alongside Lord Warner in the previous Government.
Dr Poulter
The right hon. Gentleman did not give way to me, but I will give way to him in a moment and listen to what he has to say. He sat alongside Lord Warner as a member of the Government, and Lord Warner has said that the previous Government did not pay enough attention to how we are better to integrate services and provide adult social care in the context of the NHS and other services.
Frank Dobson
I am glad that when I was Secretary of State for Health, Norman Warner did not get anywhere the Department of Health. I can report, on behalf of my London colleagues, that when he became an arbiter of the future of health care in London he must have been about the most unpopular person who has ever had that job.
Dr Poulter
The right hon. Gentleman was a part of the party of Government at that time. Lord Warner was a leading member, and it is fair to point out that he has come forward with some good cross-party recommendations that we very much welcome. The recommendations point to the fact that the key challenge for the NHS is better integrating services and providing high-quality patient care, especially in elderly care and adult social care. That has not happened as effectively as it should have done in the last 10 years and we need to ensure that it does happen. That is why this Bill is a good thing.
Members on both sides of the House have generally welcomed the use of the private sector where it can add value to the NHS, especially for patients. That has to be a good thing, but we need to ensure—as the Bill does—that we do not have the cherry-picking that we saw in the past. We need to ensure that we have a health service that provides better value for money, better care and more integrated adult social care and health care for the frail elderly.
Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)
This is a crucial part of the debate that we will have over the next couple of days. Parts 3 and 4 of the Bill are at the heart of the Government’s proposals for the NHS and of the concerns that professional bodies, patient groups, members of the public and Members—at least on this side of the House—have about those proposals. These parts will introduce a new economic regulator for the NHS, modelled on the same lines as those for gas, electricity and railways. They also enshrine UK and EU competition law into primary legislation on the NHS for the first time.
We have also been discussing crucial new amendments that, despite what the Secretary of State says, have not been scrutinised by the Future Forum, about the Government’s new failure regime. That essentially addresses which local services and hospitals—such as we all have in our constituencies—will be allowed to fail.
Each of these subjects should be subject to separate and far longer debates, because they are of such importance to our constituents, our local NHS staff and our local services. However, because the House has been given so little time and the Government have tabled so many amendments, we have been forced to take these huge issues together—[Interruption.] As always, the Minister of State groans from a sedentary position, but Members have a right to question the Government on their proposals for local hospitals and services, and three or four hours is not sufficient. I hope that the other place will take that into account.
The Bill establishes Monitor as an economic regulator, modelled on the same lines as those for gas, electricity and railways. The explanatory notes make this explicit. Page 85 states that clauses in part 3 are based
“upon precedents from the utilities, rail and telecoms industries”.
Indeed, in an interview with The Times earlier this year, David Bennett, the new chairman of Monitor, confirmed that that was the Government’s plan, saying that Monitor’s role would be comparable with the regulators of the gas, electricity and telecoms markets.
Labour Members have consistently argued that such a model is entirely wrong for our NHS. People’s need for health care is not the same as their need for gas, water or telecoms. There is a fundamental difference between needs, ability to benefit, the complexity of services and the fact that they are far more interlinked. The NHS is not a normal market. It is not like a supermarket, or like gas or the railways. There are much more important issues at stake.
The Government have made some minor amendments to Monitor’s duties, but they will not ensure the integration and collaboration that many hon. Members recognise is vital to improving health, especially for patients with long-term and chronic conditions. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) said, the duties still rig Monitor in favour of competition. It is not only Monitor’s duties that do that. Chapter 2 of part 3 contains 12 clauses that explicitly introduce competition law into primary legislation on the NHS for the first time. The clauses give Monitor sweeping powers to conduct investigations into NHS services; to disqualify senior staff in hospitals and other NHS services; and to impose penalties for breaches of competition law, including the power to fine services that are found to have broken the law up to 10% of their turnover. Not only that, but third parties, including competitors, can bring damage claims against those services.
The Government claim, as the Secretary of State did earlier, that somehow those provisions will not change anything. In that case, why bother to have the clauses in the Bill? As the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) said, Labour Members have argued not that the Bill extends the scope of competition law, but that it extends the applicability of competition law to the NHS. It is not just the clauses on Monitor and competition law that do this, but others such as those that abolish the private patient cap on foundation trusts, and other Government policies, such as that of “any qualified provider”.
Emily Thornberry
I would like to speak to amendment 1165, which stands in my name and those of my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), my hon. Friends the Members for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), for Halton (Derek Twigg) and for Pontypridd (Owen Smith), and the hon. Members for St Ives (Andrew George), for Southport (John Pugh) and for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland). It would delete clause 168, which abolishes the cap on the number of private patients who can be treated in foundation trust hospitals. There has been much interest in this issue, and we will seek a vote on the matter if possible.
Earlier, the Secretary of State assured us that the legislation would not result in a market free-for-all. “That will not happen if this Bill is passed,” he said. But close examination of the clause shows that we will certainly be getting a step closer. It will mean that our national health service, where people are tended by our NHS-trained doctors using our NHS equipment, will be full of private patients, who are able to pay more. Hard-pressed hospitals facing increasingly large shortfalls, desperately trying to balance their books, are bound to take in increasing numbers of private patients.
We have been here before. Many of us remember the last time the Conservatives were in power, when there was a two-tier health service: those who could pay got faster treatment and could skip the queue, while those who could not afford to go private had to wait, and many of them had to die.
I am pleased that the Secretary of State has seen the letter in The Times today. It is often concerning to see how he assimilates data, because he seems to listen only to some things and not to others; he listens to what he wants to hear. I hope that he has realised that in The Times today the doctors, nurses, midwives, psychiatrists, physiotherapists and occupational therapists have said that the Bill will destabilise the national health service. They are particularly concerned about the removal of the private patient cap. Why is that? The Government’s own impact assessment, at B156, acknowledges that
“there is a risk that private patients may be prioritised above NHS patients resulting in a growth in waiting lists and waiting times for NHS patients.”
We could not have put that better ourselves, and it is in the Government’s own impact assessment of the Bill.
If we lift the cap on the number of private patients in the time of crisis that the national health service is about to go into, as night follows day the number of private patients in hospitals will increase, forcing out national health service patients. As a result, waiting lists will go up, and what will the public make of that?
Dr Poulter
As the hon. Lady is well aware, the previous Government introduced the private sector in a number of hospitals, and at the moment the private sector works alongside the NHS, helping to cut down on waiting times and the like. She is concerned about the private sector working alongside the NHS in hospitals. Does she have any concerns at the moment based on what the previous Government did in introducing that side-by-side service?
Emily Thornberry
What is extraordinary is that many people who used to go private felt that it was not necessary to do so under a Labour Government because they did not have to wait as they had to under the Conservative Government—that is one thing that I certainly remember. Yes, we have used the private sector as and when it has been necessary to reduce waiting lists, but we are not talking about that now. We are talking about whether there should be a cap on the number of private patients in national health service beds.
Dr Poulter
The hon. Lady is very kind to give way twice. She makes well the point about why the private sector is beneficial. We either agree that the private sector adds value to the NHS and patients or we say that it is a bad thing; it is either working at the moment for the benefit of patients and will work that way in future, or it is not and will not. Which way does the hon. Lady see it?
Emily Thornberry
I am sure that that contribution was of some use to someone in this debate, but I am not going to bother to respond to it.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Lansley
No, we have met the standard that patients should not wait longer than 18 weeks—a 90% standard for admitted patients and 95% for non-admitted patients. If I recall correctly, the latest data for diagnostic tests showed that there was a 1.9 week average wait for diagnostic tests, which compares with 1.8 weeks in May last year. On cancer waiting times we have achieved an improvement—up to 96%—in the number of patients who are seen by a specialist within two weeks. The hon. Lady really needs to go back and talk to her colleagues in Wales, where 26% of patients wait longer than 18 weeks, compared with less than 10% of patients here; indeed, many patients in Wales wait more than 36 weeks. We have a contrast between a coalition Government in England who are investing in the health service, with improving performance, and a Labour Government in Wales who are cutting the NHS budget and seeing performance decline.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
10. What steps his Department is taking to provide funding for healthcare infrastructure projects.
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Burns)
The Department’s capital budget for this spending review period will be higher in real terms than spending in 2010-11. Forecast capital spending in 2010-11 is £4.2 billion and the amount available in 2011-12 is £4.4 billion. By 2014-15, the total amount of capital made available since the start of the Parliament will be £22.1 billion.
Dr Poulter
Is the Minister as concerned as I am about the failure of Suffolk primary care trust to act to invest in proper buildings and infrastructure for the Gipping valley practice in Claydon in my constituency? That practice has been forced to treat patients out of a portakabin for 15 years now. Will he agree to meet me, and local doctors and patient groups, to see whether we can find a solution to the problem?
Mr Burns
I fully appreciate my hon. Friend’s concerns. As he will appreciate, the matter is primarily for the local NHS. If it is any consolation to him, I am advised that Suffolk PCT will continue to work with the GP practice on the issues, but I would be more than happy to see my hon. Friend to discuss the matter further.
NHS Future Forum
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Lansley
I am afraid I have to say that that was all nonsense. As the hon. Lady knows, we responded positively to the consultation last year and made changes then. However, as the details of the Bill have been emerging, people have been trying to work out how they will make it all work in the future. They have been saying, “We want to set out in the legislation precisely how it will work.” There is no better way of making that process effective than talking to people in the NHS, engaging with them, listening to them, and then implementing the changes.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
I am sure the Secretary of State agrees that the single biggest challenge facing health care in the United Kingdom is the economic and human challenge of looking after an ageing population. Does he also agree that the key to that is better integration of health care services—better integration of hospital services with community and social services—and that these reforms are a good way of going about that?
Mr Lansley
I agree very much with that. The Future Forum’s report, particularly the part that deals with clinical advice and leadership, has given us a robust structure for engagement with the range of professions that are capable of delivering that kind of integrated, joined-up and more effective care.
Oral Answers to Questions
Dan Poulter Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Burns
First, we all want co-operation and competition based on quality. We have had a listening event, and we are awaiting the recommendations of the forum set up under Professor Steve Field. Until we see that report, we cannot comment. I can tell the hon. Lady, however, that we do not want the kind of system of competition in the health service that leads to an independent sector treatment centre in Nottingham being paid 18% more than the NHS for the services provided, and getting £5.6 million for not doing a single operation.
Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that a key focus for improving collaboration in the NHS must be to break down the silo working that occurs between adult social services and the NHS? That will be particularly pertinent in improving elderly care services and mental health care services, and in providing a community focus for that care.
Mr Burns
Yes—and it is always refreshing to get a question from someone who has had experience of working in the NHS and actually knows what he is talking about. My hon. Friend is absolutely right; greater integration of services is crucial if we are to break down the barriers and get improved, high-quality care for all patients.
Future of the NHS
Dan Poulter Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Dr Daniel Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)
I agreed with very little of what the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith) said when we were on the Public Bill Committee together, and I am afraid that I will not change my view after hearing what he has said today. He touched, however, on the important issue of health economics. In a thoughtful speech, the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) made some good points about health economics. Much as I would rather talk just about patient care, given my medical background, health economics are at the centre of the discussion about how we will reform and improve the NHS.
The comprehensive spending review announced that the NHS would see its funding rise by 0.4% in real terms over the next four years. Despite the current economic climate, the Government have stood by their commitment to increasing NHS funding over this Parliament—we are very proud of that—but, even so, it is the smallest increase in NHS funding for decades. Ever-increasing patient demand for health care coupled with Britain’s demographic time bomb means that over the next few years the NHS will have to achieve value for money for its patients on an unprecedented scale.
Our NHS needs to make efficiency savings just to stand still and to continue to deliver high-quality patient care. My right hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell) hit the nail right on the head when he said that we need to think about not just the worried well but the 80% to 85% of patients who have serious medical co-morbidities or present as emergencies with acute medical problems in accident and emergency. That desire lies at the heart of the Government’s proposed reforms.
People are living longer, and as they do the number of people living with multiple medical co-morbidities also increases. The majority of people require their health care in the later stages of their lives and if we are to have an NHS that is truly responsive to the demographics of this country, we need to ensure better integration of health and social care. We must stop the silo working that often exists between local authorities and the NHS and ensure that we have a more locally responsive NHS. At the heart of the Bill is a desire to see better integration of adult social care and NHS care, which can only be a good thing in view of this country’s demographics and of the health economics of looking after people in the later years of their lives.
Debbie Abrahams
Does the hon. Gentleman share the concern that many councils that will be responsible for the delivery of public health are not ring-fencing the money and are using it to offset some of the cuts that they face?
Dr Poulter
I can only say that my Conservative-run, Suffolk council is doing exactly the opposite of what the hon. Lady describes. The Government have committed to putting almost £2 billion into adult social care, looking at the demographic time bomb and looking at better integrating health care with adult social care. I would be very concerned to see councils doing what she describes, because that is not what they are given that money for. If she has had a problem with that at her local authority, she needs to take it up with that authority.
The key to unlocking potential in the health sector lies in cutting the red tape and pointless form-filling that wastes the time of so many front-line staff. Of course, our NHS must have a level of regulation that ensures that products and services are thoroughly tested and that ensures patient safety. However, the over-excessive regulation introduced by the previous Government has been damaging not only to patient care but to staff morale. It has also diverted vital resources away from the front line and away from patients, who are, after all, what health care should be all about. This Government are rightly looking to take simple, obvious and positive steps in improving the overall efficiency of the NHS by scrapping the health quangos that waste £2 billion a year—money that could be much better spent on front-line patient care.
Another issue that I want to highlight in the time left to me is another area of wasteful spending in our NHS—management. Under the previous Government, the number of managers and unproductive non-medical staff increased in the past decade, with the number of managers and senior managers in the NHS almost doubling to 42,000. In many hospitals, more new managers than new nurses were recruited in that time. That cannot be right—it is bad for patients and money is being misspent. As I witnessed at first hand, NHS managers were rewarded at a better rate than front-line staff—at around 7%, compared with 1.8% pay rises for front-line medical staff. That is not a good thing.
The Opposition are very concerned about staff morale, but let me tell them why staff morale is so low: it is because the contributions of front-line staff were badly undervalued by the previous Government while the contribution of managers were over-valued. I believe that what we and the Government need to do is make sure that more money goes into front-line patient care and front-line staff rather than being wasted on management and bureaucracy.
Dr Poulter
If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me I will not give way because time forbids it.
In conclusion, the NHS needs to be reformed and needs to improve the care it delivers to patients. We can no longer afford to sustain the amount of wasteful spending on management and bureaucracy that occurs in the NHS. We need a less bureaucratic NHS—a clinically led NHS that can once again put its patients first. The NHS has become obsessed with management and process but if we want to reform it, then it must be the patient who counts.