Cardiff Coal Exchange

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 20th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Doughty]

I have some concerns about Cardiff Council’s involvement, which are focused on the officers of the council, and I will make that clear.

The building became grade II* listed in 1975 and there were discussions about the use of the building, which is so important that it was considered as the future home of the proposed Welsh Assembly during the devolution referendum in the 1970s. It was also considered as the headquarters for S4C, the Welsh language television channel. Eventually, it was refurbished and reopened as a major venue hosting acts such as the Manic Street Preachers, Ocean Colour Scene and the Stereophonics. There has been support from across the music and entertainment spectrum and people who have enjoyed gigs and events there. I see my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) here and I know he has been there for many gigs, as has my hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens), as have I. There was even support recently from Sir Tom Jones, no less.

However, the coal exchange closed indefinitely in August 2013 as a result of claimed building safety issues and the imposition of prohibition orders by Cardiff Council, which were themselves a matter of controversy. There has been an issue about the council’s regulatory functions potentially being used unsympathetically to frustrate access to the building over a number of years. We then saw the liquidation of Macob, the company that owned the exchange, and in 2014, ownership of the coal exchange was disclaimed by the liquidators and passed to the Crown Estate. That was an unusual legal situation and led to a great deal of uncertainty.

At that point, I became aware of a lot of local concern about the future of the building. My office is nearby in Mount Stuart Square in one of the other historic buildings of Cardiff Bay. The coal exchange is a building I have long felt a great attachment and passion for. Many people in the community came forward and, with the opportunity presented by its being disclaimed to the Crown Estate, I decided to make a public call for all the parties interested in its future to come together for the benefit of the community and to save the building.

I was contacted by many hundreds of people: existing tenants, experts, former workers in the building and people from the diverse Butetown community and those associated with the building in the past, as well as an extensive number of interested developers. We held a first major public meeting in Butetown in October 2014, which was followed by a smaller working group coming together to form what was to become the Save The Coal Exchange campaign at the end of the same month. It was clear there was a significant appetite for a collaborative effort involving all those who cared about the building to find a solution.

A number of formal claims persisted against the building from Cardiff Council, Julian Hodge bank, Barclays bank and Coal Exchange Ltd, the company that had previously hosted events at the venue and had effectively been forced out of it by the council-imposed prohibitions, but there was great optimism that a solution involving the local community, the council, the Welsh Government, Cadw, the Heritage Lottery Fund, the Victorian Society and others who had expressed an interest, as well as a private developer or investment of private funds, might result in a solution that would not only save this remarkable piece of heritage, but find a use or uses that could meet multiple needs, retain community access to it and generate revenue to secure its future. In the months following, there was much progress.

Over the past 18 months, the Save The Coal Exchange campaign has secured parts of the habitable building, ensuring bills were paid for utilities, attracting a significant number of new tenants, ranging from lawyers to creatives and community organisations and, crucially, challenging the false perception that has repeatedly arisen that the entire building is derelict and at immediate risk of falling down. Parts of it are in a difficult state, but other parts are entirely functional and the public debate has at times been extremely misleading.

Surveys were undertaken and approaches made to prospective partners. The Save The Coal Exchange campaign secured a grant of £10,000 from the Heritage Lottery Fund Wales with a view to a larger application. I commend the campaign for doing a remarkable job in keeping the building going and keeping open the options for its future. At the same time, the Welsh Government commissioned their own survey and studies, and a series of developers expressed interest in being involved.

On no fewer than seven occasions, I met Cardiff Council officials—

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman alluded to the Welsh Government study, which was done by Capita, and the Cardiff Council study, which was done by RVW. The costs were estimated to be in the region of £35 million to £45 million. Does he accept that that is an enormous amount of money, that the issue is not new, that the Welsh Government have sat on their hands when it comes to helping Cardiff Council out with this problem, and that a large amount of money could fall on taxpayers?

[Stephen Doughty]

I have concerns about the liability for taxpayers, but the Welsh Government have engaged proactively and positively. I hope that the new Government will look carefully at these issues.

As I said, on no fewer than seven occasions, I met council officials and was provided with repeated assurances of partnership. I spoke to Julian Hodge bank and Barclays bank, which assured me they would act in the interests of all those with a stake and the local community, and not sign off any deal that they did not think met those concerns. I also spoke to the Crown Estate, the Heritage Lottery Fund and many others. However, sadly, our hopes and optimism for a collaborative and transparent process seem to have been misplaced and I am sorry to say that over the last six months we have seen some deeply untransparent manoeuvres by a small group of council officers to cut a backroom deal, first with a Liverpool company, Harcourt Developments, and then with another Liverpool company, Signature Living, and its owner Lawrence Kenwright.

Despite my misgivings, I have tried at all times to maintain an open mind to various developers and proposals that have come forward. Indeed, I was happy to put them in touch with relevant parties and the Save The Coal Exchange campaign. That includes Signature Living. I met its representatives on a number of occasions, including Lawrence Kenwright on three occasions, to listen to their plans and to ask detailed questions, not least because one of the positive aspects of its proposal was, on the face of it, to maintain the core heritage fabric. However, as time went on and more matters came to my attention, I became increasingly concerned about its suitability as a developer and the nature of its assurances, which seemed to vary at every meeting. I raised those directly with Cardiff Council and many of the other parties but I was assured that they would be fully examined again and again.

So we come to the present day. The Minister will be aware that in the last two weeks there has been a sudden announcement that a deal has been facilitated by Cardiff Council to transfer ownership of the coal exchange to Signature Living, followed by a barrage of heavy corporate PR from Mr Kenwright and subsequent controversy in the media and local community, with nearly 800 local individuals now having signed a petition criticising the deal.

Let me be clear. I am not opposed to a private developer being involved in a solution to save the coal exchange. Indeed, since day one, I have been clear about the level of finance needed. I am also perfectly happy to put my personal concerns about Mr Kenwright to one side in the interests of any deal about the building and the local community. It is easy to provide a fait accompli in these situations—to present oneself as the only alternative, threaten dire consequences, respond to any criticism or reasonable questions as a “slur” and warn of the jobs that might be lost. But we owe it to the building and the local community in Butetown, Cardiff and, indeed, the rest of Wales to secure the right solution for the coal exchange.

I want to detail a few specific concerns that I hope the Minister will listen to carefully. First, on the process, previous dealings with Macob and other potential developers reveal a concerning record. Freedom of information requests have revealed a complex web of negotiations over a number of years, including that the council was contemplating a development that would have seen a significant proportion of the building demolished and the building of a multi-storey block of flats. That is hardly reassuring.

There has been no tender or public process in this instance. The council was fully aware of the concerns during the process, and I do not understand why it did not go forward in a fully transparent and open way to secure the right bid. In fact, one developer came to see me to tell me of his concerns—that bid was supported by officials at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, at UK level—and told me that in effect he had been scared away by the council: it was not interested and he should go away.

In recent days the council appears to have exercised its right of sale to seize and transfer the building to Signature Living. How it did that is unclear and has been questioned by independent legal practitioners. That largely centres on a claim that the council has made, but never fully substantiated, of “costs” that it incurred and then attempted to formalise by pinning a notice to the building some months ago. It appears to have done a deal with other claimants to relinquish their charges.

Lawrence Kenwright has claimed in the press this week that he beat dozens of competitors. On 8 April I had an email from the council’s director of economic development, Neil Hanratty, that made the point that the

“condition of the building has been widely publicised”.

He went on to confirm that rather than dozens, only

“four parties were interviewed by a panel of officers including the Listed Building…Officer and a representative of Julian Hodge Bank.”

I find it very odd, given the UK and international interest in the building, let alone that in Wales, that the council appears to have engaged in negotiations in the past 18 months with only two companies, both of which happen to be from Liverpool. It is a shame that the council did not get together with other key stakeholders to put together a public bid process, working with all those other people who could have played a part in finding the best solution.

I also have concerns that this matter has not received the proper democratic scrutiny. It does not appear to have gone to the cabinet or the leader of the council, or, to my knowledge, to the council’s economic development committee.

I want to turn now to Mr Kenwright’s financial background. I am afraid that Mr Kenwright has been less than transparent about his financial history, and I think it is in the public interest to raise these matters so that others can draw their own conclusions. Mr Kenwright did not proactively disclose these to Cardiff Council or to anybody else who met him. Indeed, the council claimed that it was unaware of them when I raised them with it. He has blamed his past difficulties on the credit crunch and said that they have made him “a better businessman”. He has attempted to downplay them in the Welsh press this week. He told WalesOnline:

“I had an apartment block in Liverpool which went over budget. I was one of the first ones to go bust. The only difference between liquidation and bankruptcy is giving the personal guarantee.”

However, Mr Kenwright confirmed to me personally in a meeting in the House on 9 March that he was made bankrupt as recently as 2010, in Liverpool Crown court on 22 June in that year. The credit crunch of course started in 2008. And, crucially, he was a director, as reported in the north Wales Daily Post on 28 April 2004, of a clothing company called Yes & Co. Distribution Ltd, which in 2002 went into liquidation, with an estimated £1.9 million owing to creditors. The newspaper reported at the time that a Patricia Kenwright—believed to be his former wife—was disqualified from being a director for four years and that her husband Lawrence Kenwright accepted a similar undertaking for eight years, and a Frederick Greenwood for five years. That of course suggests that Mr Kenwright could have been disqualified until as recently as 2012, although admittedly that is not clear.

It is not clear why the directors were disqualified, but the newspaper reported that Mrs Kenwright

“allowed the company to fail to deal properly with its taxation affairs.”

For the record, the Insolvency Service lists a range of reasons for being disqualified. Of course, there could have been another Lawrence Kenwright, so I wanted to ask him directly, and he confirmed that he was a former director of Yes & Co. and that he had indeed been disqualified. It is interesting to note that until recently he was not even listed as a director of the company that he set up to facilitate the purchase of the coal exchange. As of yesterday, Signature Living Coal Exchange Ltd listed only one director, his current wife Katie Kenwright, although Mr Kenwright is listed as a director of Signature Living Coal Exchange Ops Ltd.

I want to turn briefly to the financial model—

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[Craig Williams]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Stephen Doughty]

If I may, I will not. We have limited time and I have already taken one intervention, but I might take another later if we have enough time.

The financial model that Mr Kenwright proposes to use for the building is the BPRA—business premises renovation allowance—scheme. That was introduced in the Finance Act 2005 and was intended to bring derelict or unused properties back into use. The scheme gives an initial allowance of 100% for expenditure on converting or renovating unused business premises in a disadvantaged area. However, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has announced the end of the scheme from the end of this financial year, after a raft of concerns, and investigations by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs.

The council has claimed to me that Signature Living has told it that it has secured an “approved £12 million” and up to a further £30 million. However, Lawrence Kenwright told me that only one of his previous schemes had received full approval from HMRC. I am deeply concerned. Given the investigations into these schemes in the past and the risk of their not being approved, where does the liability lie? We also ought to ask, given the current climate and concerns about tax avoidance and transparency: is this the right scheme to be funding this sort of building? Should we be assisting wealthy individuals and shadowy funds to avoid tax in this way? The Treasury has decided that it will end the scheme, which I think shows what it thinks of it.

The Financial Times reported on 14 July 2015:

“HM Revenue & Customs indicated it saw problems with arrangements involving BPRA, drawing parallels with abusive avoidance schemes, and a year later added them to its public ‘Spotlights’ list of arrangements it said taxpayers should avoid.”

A range of concerns were raised. The FT continues:

“Where tax relief was not granted to taxpayers before 2013, the Revenue has in most cases withheld it, said Mr Avient”—

he comes from UHY Hacker Young—

“‘The Revenue clearly saw a situation where certain structures were stretching the rules too far’...it has issued a raft of accelerated payment demands to repay disputed tax to BPRA scheme investors. These tax bills cannot be appealed.”

Interestingly, on 21 April 2014 the Liverpool Echo revealed the problems with the Stanley Dock regeneration scheme, funded in the same way. Builders were left unpaid; the council was left having to provide a significant amount of grant—multi-million pounds—and there was a complete lack of transparency. That involved another Liverpool company called Harcourt, which incidentally, as I said, was the previous preferred partner of Cardiff Council. The Liverpool Echo reported that it was

“surprisingly difficult to pin down the developers and owners”,

which I think exposes the difficulties and concerns about the transparency of these schemes and their solidity.

I also have concerns about what the building will be—what is the proposal on the table? We have heard about it being proposed as a hotel. It is clear that Signature Living is a hotel developer. I am not opposed to a hotel development and I am sure that many other people in the community are not, but it is still, as of this date, unclear what parts of the building will be used for what. At various times, in various meetings, we have been told of residential, part-hotel and normal hotel usage. In fact, Mr Kenwright suggested to me that it might be a third, a third, a third—or, as he put it, “as much as the council let me get away with”.

We need to be very clear—we need to know—before accepting or agreeing that this scheme is a good thing what the building will be used for. Tenants and businesses in the area and residents in the square—it is already a significant residential area—need to understand what will be there. Will there be lots of big parties coming there? Mr Kenwright has a hen and stag business in his hotels in Liverpool. Will lots of people be living there and will there be parking issues and all the other things associated with that? None of those schemes is necessarily wrong, but the public have a right to know what the building will be.

I come now to community benefits and issues. First, the Save The Coal Exchange campaign has listed a whole series of issues that it would want to be included in a section 106 agreement. It would want to see those outlined and agreed to. We have had promises of jobs and apprenticeships, although Lawrence Kenwright told me that the company would “bring their own people in”. Where are the clear assurances on jobs and apprenticeships?

Secondly, there are existing tenants—nearly 40 tenants —in the building. What assurances have they been given? They are deeply fearful that the council may step in, given its history, issue prohibition notices and see them evicted once building work starts. Where are the assurances for them?

We also have concerns about engagement with the local community in the square. There has not been serious consultation with local residents or businesses. Signature Living has been advertising major changes to Baltic House, home of the Wales Council for Voluntary Action. Is it aware of those; has it been consulted?

I have had an exchange of letters with the council about this matter and have had some assurances, but the letter from Neil Hanratty on 8 April confirms only that

“commitment to the above will be secured formally through the planning process”

and merely that Signature Living has “agreed in principle”. We should be having cast-iron guarantees for a building of this nature, with this kind of expenditure and the potential impact. These are really serious issues and we want to ensure that there is that community benefit, quite apart from all the other issues about access to the building.

Finally, heritage was one of the most positive aspects of the Signature Living proposal but, even so, there are concerns. In March 2016, the Victorian Society wrote to City of Cardiff Council officer Pat Thompson, copying in Neil Hanratty, saying that it had heard nothing from the council for 20 months and that

“the lack of communication from Cardiff Council is both disappointing and concerning… we are concerned that without close scrutiny, and clear direction from the local authority, aided and informed by a proper assessment…an acceptably sympathetic scheme, might…prove difficult to achieve. In 2013 and 2014 the Society was involved in consultations with Signature Living over its proposed hotel conversion, of Albion House, Liverpool, a Grade 2* Listed Building by Richard Norman Shaw.”

That building will, of course, be of interest to those of us in this Parliament. The letter continued:

“From our point of view the process was far from ideal. Plans were drawn up hurriedly and without any evidence of the sort of high quality, detailed heritage assessment a Grade 2* Listed Building demands. Perhaps unsurprisingly therefore, the conversion involved some alterations and additions that we as well as Historic England advised were unsympathetic and harmful. These were undertaken regardless, some seemingly prior to receiving the necessary consents… None of this is to suggest that Signature Living is incapable or indisposed to deliver a high quality sensitive scheme, rather it is to demonstrate that without proper guidance...in the form of a Conservation Management Plan and a structural survey, a less sympathetic and unnecessarily damaging conversion scheme is the likely outcome.”

I conclude by identifying a few key areas. First, the questions about the financial background are deeply concerning. What does the Minister think? I want Cardiff Council to be clear about its due diligence process in that regard, particularly on the sureties around the BPRA scheme, given the concerns that have been raised. What happens if that goes wrong? Who will bail this out? Who will deal with the financial consequences?

Secondly, on heritage and planning, there is a clear need for strict oversight from Cadw, the Victorian Society and others, for conservation management plans and for surveys, whatever developer comes in. Thirdly, we need guarantees in writing, not assurances that mean nothing, on the community issues and on access to the building. We need guarantees for the tenants of the building as it is, and we need an inquiry into the overall process over a number of years. The process has been deeply unsatisfactory and has involved the use of health and safety powers and the spending of public money in a deeply non-transparent way. We should put a halt to the proposal, re-engage with the community and other stakeholders and act in the national interest to save the coal exchange.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Guto Bebb)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) on his speech and on securing this debate. It is important that Westminster is still relevant to the communities that we represent in Wales, and highlighting such issues in Westminster Hall debates is appropriate and correct. He said that he does not expect me to have all the answers, and indeed it would be inappropriate for me to respond to some of the points that have been raised because many of them are issues for the Welsh Government and for City of Cardiff Council, which as part of local government in Wales is answerable to the Welsh Government. I will have to restrain myself from commenting on devolved areas. It is important to place this debate in context and to respond to the undevolved issues, and I will particularly respond to the questions on the tax allowance system. Additionally, it is important to touch on the Crown Estate’s position in the sales process to try to allay some of the fears he raised.

On the background to the debate, I fully subscribe to the hon. Gentleman’s comments on the coal exchange, which is an iconic Welsh building. We should be proud that Wales was able to dictate the price of coal throughout the world, and we should trumpet that the first £1 million business transaction—the sale of coal to France—happened at the coal exchange. We should talk about that when we discuss the history of Cardiff but, in the context of Cardiff bay, this debate is also an opportunity to highlight the way in which Wales has developed. We should proudly boast of the revitalisation of Cardiff bay and highlight the economic impact of the changes in Cardiff that have been secured through the work of successive Governments here in Westminster, in co-operation with Governments in Cardiff bay—it is an example of the two Governments working together and of the local authority being proactive in redeveloping an area that was ripe for redevelopment. This is a success story, and there is no doubt that the coal exchange is an iconic building at the centre of the proposed redevelopment of Cardiff bay.

When we talk about redevelopment and business opportunities in Cardiff, it is no bad thing to trumpet, for example, the Cardiff city deal. I represent a north Wales constituency, and I often hear the accusation that all the investment in Wales goes to Cardiff, but it is important to point out that the scale of the Cardiff city deal is not confined to the city of Cardiff; it will have a huge impact on all the areas surrounding Cardiff. Indeed, a significant proportion of the Welsh population will be affected by the Cardiff city deal, which has secured a £1.2 billion investment on a cross-governmental level. I am sure that every hon. Member in this Chamber would welcome that.

Cardiff is a city that is going places and performing extremely well in attracting inward investment. There is no doubt that the Cardiff bay area has been crucial to the refocusing of Cardiff in the mind of inward investors as a city with a “can do” attitude, which has made a difference to job creation throughout the area and south Wales.

[Craig Williams]

There is a direct comparison between the scale of regeneration in Cardiff under the Cardiff Bay Development Corporation, which was formed under the previous Conservative Government, and the city deal in partnership with the Wales Government. It is a national disgrace that we are debating the future of the coal exchange and that it has been left to fall down through the inaction of the Labour Welsh Government. The impression has been given that the officers run City of Cardiff Council, which has a Labour cabinet.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Speech!

Commonwealth Games: Wales

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 16th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to have secured this Adjournment debate today—a day that has been excellent for Wales—and I am delighted to see the Minister in his rightful place, after hotfooting it from the significant announcement earlier. That announcement, on the Severn bridge tolls, is tied to this debate and will be extremely welcome come 2026 and, more importantly, 2018.

I rise to talk about the Commonwealth games bid for 2026, around which time many of the investments announced today will come to fruition. Over time, the Welsh Government’s feasibility study into the games has changed significantly. I will touch later on the Cardiff city deal and the Chancellor’s openness to the Swansea city deal and what that means for the bid, but there has been a continuing dialogue about the games for several years. On the feasibility study, it has been a bit like the hokey-cokey with some parties and Governments: they support it, they don’t support it.

I hope today to bring some consensus to the Chamber around a vision for a Commonwealth games that Welsh civic society, the Welsh Government and the UK Government need to get behind. It would be good for Cardiff, south Wales, Wales and the United Kingdom.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

rose—

[Craig Williams]

I see our first hope for a consensus from the Welsh Liberal Democrats.

[Mr Mark Williams]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on how he has called for that cross-party approach. In the spirit of Welsh unity, may I encourage him—although I do not think he needs much encouragement—to talk about the huge benefits that would accrue to the whole country, north, south, east and west, urban and rural, were our campaign to be successful?

[Craig Williams]

The hon. Gentleman—hon. Friend, I think, on this issue—hits the nail on the head: this would be a Welsh bid. That is why I named this Adjournment debate not “The Commonwealth Games for Cardiff”, as you might have expected me unabashedly to do, Mr Speaker, but “The Commonwealth Games for Wales”.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

rose—

[Craig Williams]

In the spirit of consensus, I will take one more intervention, from the hon. Lady, and then make some progress.

[Jessica Morden]

Newport kindly shared the NATO summit with Cardiff. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there would be huge potential for Cardiff to share the games with Newport, given our excellent facilities and expertise in planning this type of event?

--- Later in debate ---

[Craig Williams]

I know that the hon. Lady—again my hon. Friend on this issue—is very proud of the velodrome and other cycling facilities in Newport and its other arenas. The games would be for Cardiff, for south Wales, for the whole of Wales; it is a Welsh bid, and I champion it. I also acknowledge that Newport graciously hosted the NATO summit with Cardiff.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

rose—

[Craig Williams]

I will make some progress, but everyone who hopes to get in, in this very short debate, will.

Of course, Cardiff has hosted the Commonwealth games before, but that was in 1958, which was a little before my time in the House and on this planet. The Commonwealth games is the only multi-sport event in which Wales competes as a nation, and it is an important opportunity for many athletes to brandish the Welsh brand and represent their country. We have had a proud historic involvement in the Commonwealth games, first appearing in 1930 in Hamilton, Canada, and we are one of only six nations to have taken part in every games since 1930.

The first Commonwealth medal—this is where competition can emerge in Wales—was won by Valerie Davies, a Cardiff local winning two silver medals in our first games. That was not too surprising to many Welsh Members. We also do spectacularly well in weight-lifting; it is one of our most successful sports. The Commonwealth games podiums of the past have seen the likes of Lynn Davies, Nicole Cooke, Colin Jackson, David Davies, David Roberts, Kelly Morgan—now Baroness Grey-Thompson—and Dai Greene flying that flag for Wales.

At Glasgow, in the not-too-distant past, we were represented by athletes from all corners of our country, and we returned a record-breaking 36 medals, including five golds. Frankie Jones became the first-ever Welsh athlete to claim six medals in one Commonwealth games, winning one gold and five silvers. Just imagine what we could achieve with a home crowd; I think we could break the record we established in Glasgow.

[Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing the Adjournment debate forward. I would like to add to the list. Natalie Powell, who won a judo gold medal in the Commonwealth games of 2014 came from Builth Wells in my constituency. I suggest that mid-Wales would certainly benefit from the Cardiff Commonwealth games. A legacy would be left for the whole of Wales, as my hon. Friend rightly says.

[Craig Williams]

My hon. Friend touches on what others have said on this subject. There could be a Welsh bid, and it is something that hon. Members from the UK or the Welsh Government could really get behind and deliver a legacy for the whole country—north, mid, west, south.

[Albert Owen]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate, which gives confidence. Wales already has a strong record of hosting international events. Indeed, my own constituency was the start of the “tour de Britain” only last year. Anglesey has bid for another important games—the Island games in 2025. That could be a showcase for 2026 or even 2030 if it were successful further on. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the whole of Wales needs to get behind the Island games? We are the only island in Wales that can really qualify for this, but we could share the benefits with the rest of Wales.

[Craig Williams]

I wholeheartedly support that bid. What a fantastic couple of years it would be if we achieved that and then we achieved the Commonwealth games. That really does cover the breath of our country—from top to bottom.

Let me explain why I think Wales is best placed to deliver in 2026. The UK has had a fantastic record, with Manchester’s Commonwealth games, and then there were the Olympics, in which we all played a part across the UK. Most recently of all, there were the Glasgow games.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I, too, thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing the debate forward. The Wales bid for the Commonwealth games is one that I would fully support. We would see economic benefits for the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Commonwealth games in Scotland, for example, brought benefits for Northern Ireland and particularly from the teams who trained beforehand. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that we should do more? Let us do more with the Northern Ireland Assembly and local councils as well. Then we can all reap the benefit of the Commonwealth games in Wales.

[Craig Williams]

The hon. Gentleman is exactly right. I was just about to touch on the legacy effects across the United Kingdom that the games would bring. Let us look at some cold, hard numbers. I appreciate that the Welsh Government need to carry out the feasibility studies, but they will take us only so far. We need the gut political instinct that makes us say, “We are proud of our nation and our country; we would like to host international, global stages, and we must do that.” I think we are at that juncture now.

Following the Manchester games of 2002, we have had some time to do some economic studies. The chief executive of Manchester city council, reflecting 10 years on, said:

“The Games accelerated regeneration and economic growth in the city by 20 years or more and the ten-year anniversary puts in to perspective how much the City of Manchester has grown and changed over the past decade.”

Looking closer in time to Glasgow, there has been a £52 million boost to Scotland’s economy, and 1,000 jobs in each of the past six years have resulted from the building and revamping of Glasgow up to the competition, and then after with the athletes village.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. What consideration has he given to the extra infrastructure that will be required in Cardiff and across the country to host the games? Glasgow had the SSE arena with a capacity of over 15,000, and it hosted about six of the disciplines, but we do not yet have that sort of facility in Wales.

[Craig Williams]

The key word is “yet”. Sir Terry Matthews has ideas for the promotion of an arena, and Cardiff Council also has some excellent ideas involving regeneration and the building of an arena.

The plans are there, but a catalyst is needed. At the beginning of my speech, I mentioned the Cardiff city deal and the infrastructure that the south Wales metro will provide. If Glasgow and Manchester had benefited from the kind of infrastructure investment that has been announced in the Budget today, it would have made the games much more achievable. We may talk about new arenas, but this is about having a vision for Wales and going for it. Our capital city certainly needs more hotel capacity, Newport needs more grade A hotel capacity, and Swansea needs its arenas and conference facilities. These are things that we lack as a country, and I am not just talking about the Commonwealth games; the legacy effect extends further.

The building and refurbishment of games venues and the athletes village in Glasgow has produced an estimated 1,000 jobs and £52 million for Scotland’s economy. There are 5,000 games-related training and job opportunities on national legacy programmes throughout Scotland, which are not focusing on a single city. An average of about 200 jobs and a £10 million economic boost were created during the six years that led up to the games, via the multi-partnership urban regeneration firm Clyde Gateway URC. The firm initially invested £100 million to help create a regenerated, well-designed community. All the new and refurbished games sporting facilities are already open to the public: schools, clubs and sports bodies. The legacy in Scotland is fantastic, and we could have the same in Wales.

There has also been an expansion of the major events industry in Scotland. As I said earlier, we need international conference facilities in Wales, but we cannot currently do that because of our chronic lack of hotel capacity, and the lack of capacity in the areas where we host conferences. The games would serve as a catalyst in that respect.

Let me say something about the legacy and economic benefits for our country. Sarah Powell, chief executive of Sport Wales, has said:

“Wales’ global reputation for staging world leading sporting events would be further enhanced by hosting the Commonwealth Games. We should be proud of our reputation around major events as it projects the image that we want the world to see—a strong confident nation comfortable with our place in the world and increasingly treating success as not a surprise, but an expectation.”

Throughout our nation is a wealth of world-class sporting venues. It will not surprise Members that I mention first the Millennium stadium in our capital city, which has now been renamed the Principality stadium, but Wales also has the Liberty stadium in Swansea and the velodrome in Newport. The Commonwealth games would not just bring benefits to south Wales; north Wales could host sailing and other events. The National Sports Centre in Cardiff regularly hosts international competitions, training camps and athlete training, and a number of international competitions already take place throughout the year at the centre.

Any Commonwealth games bid would have a positive regeneration impact in terms of infrastructure development, as well as adding to the already increasing levels of sporting participation. Given the indoor arena that is planned for Cardiff, and the 5,000-seater Wales International Convention Centre at the Celtic Manor resort, the building of new sporting venues may be completed well before 2026. Those are arenas that we already want to build. Any feasibility study would find that we are well on our way to pulling all this together—and, of course, we already have many rugby and football stadiums, and provision for the other sports in which we do so well in Wales.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

Commonwealth games athletes from all the nations of the United Kingdom train at the Judo Centre of Excellence in the black country. Does my hon. Friend agree that a Commonwealth games in Wales would benefit the whole United Kingdom?

[Craig Williams]

My hon. Friend is quite right. What a happy Union we would be if another Commonwealth games were secured in the UK. I know of no bigger fan of the black country, and no bigger supporter, than my hon. Friend.

Let me list a number of events that we have already hosted on the world stage. At the turn of the millennium, there was the 1999 rugby world cup in Cardiff. Who could forget Max Boyce going on to the pitch and singing hymns and arias to a stadium full of people?

[Jim Shannon]

rose—

[Craig Williams]

Of course I will give way to the hon. Gentleman if he wants to do a Max Boyce, but I do not know whether he is allowed to sing hymns and arias.

[Jim Shannon]

The advantage of having teams from other Commonwealth countries in your area is that it gets the local people involved. Examples from the Glasgow games included cycling and fencing. This is not just about the economic boost; it is about the community boost as well.

[Craig Williams]

Absolutely. However, some of the main criticisms of the proposals for the games being held in Wales are economic, so I am putting those to the test at the moment. The cultural and legacy aspects of the games are immense, and their role in encouraging young people into sport is terrific. I shall say more about that in a moment. I thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing that point up.

At the turn of the millennium we in Cardiff did our bit for England’s World cup. We did our bit in the match as well as hosting some games. We did our bit for the FA cup, the Ryder cup, the Olympic and Paralympic games. We also did our bit for the Ashes in 2009 and 2015, the rugby league world cup in 2013, Rally GB, the Community shield and the British speedway grand prix. We also host premier league football fixtures, although sadly they take place further down the M4 these days. I am sure that they will be coming back to Cardiff before long.

Of course we also host international rugby matches, including the six nations and the Heineken cup, and international football matches. The Volvo ocean race is coming to Cardiff bay, and we are about to host the UEFA Champions league final. The world half-marathon is also coming to Cardiff soon. The benefits to Wales from hosting an event that stands so large on the international stage as the Commonwealth games would be innumerable. Anyone who had an unlimited budget to publicise their country and cities would go for events such as those. Wales does not have an unlimited budget, yet we secure them.

Let us also consider the legacy products and the potential surge in Welsh national pride. I say to my colleague from Plaid Cymru, the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards), that that does not equate to Welsh independence. I am talking about Welsh national pride. The Commonwealth games would be a perfect opportunity not only to bring benefits to Wales but to showcase our beautiful nation. That can bring legacy benefits to tourism and culture. We are indeed better and stronger together.

It is estimated that for every £1 of national lottery funding invested in major sporting events, an average of £4.90 of additional direct economic impact is generated for the host city and region. Staging the Ashes cricket at Cardiff SWALEC stadium brought in an estimated £24 million to the region, according to Cardiff Metropolitan University. An economic study of the 2011 Champions league final in London estimated that the windfall for that city was about £43 million. A recent report carried out by Econactive for the Welsh Rugby Union showed that the Millennium stadium—now the Principality stadium—generates over £130 million a year for Cardiff and sustains more than 2,500 jobs. From 2006 to 2016, spectators who attended events at the stadium spent £848.6 million. The overall economic impact of the venue is estimated to be £130 million a year.

The 2010 Ryder cup hosted in Newport generated a total economic impact for Wales of £82.4 million and had a direct economic impact of £53.9 million for south Wales. On the legacy aspect, Golf Union Wales said that in the 12 months following the Ryder cup, 40% more boys and 60% more girls under the age of 18 started to participate in the sport. We can only imagine what the multitude of sports represented in the Commonwealth games could do to encourage the young people of our nation.

[Tom Elliott (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) (UUP)]

The hon. Gentleman is talking about young people. Is he aware that the Commonwealth Youth games are coming to Northern Ireland and to Belfast in 2021? They should give a great boost not only to the young people of the United Kingdom and the rest of the Commonwealth but also, I hope, to the hon. Gentleman’s bid for Wales.

[Craig Williams]

Absolutely. I cannot see why the games should not start in Northern Ireland and go over to Anglesey before coming down to Cardiff, the host city, and across Wales as the consensus develops for this project.

Sport can have a lasting and positive impact on the people of Wales, on our health and wellbeing, on our place in our communities and on our national pride. Sporting success is important to Wales because it makes a statement about our heritage, our culture, our achievements and our ambition for our nation. There is a definite link between successful, high-profile sporting role models and children taking up healthy activity and sport. Sport participation is crucial for children and young people for many reasons. An active child is more likely to become an active adult, and being part of a team gives children a sense of belonging, challenges them to work in a group and encourages them to develop social and other essential skills.

In south Wales, the infrastructure developments, the changes that the Government are making in other programmes, and investment in young people and the next generation represent a real coming together for 2026. I look forward to hearing in the Minister’s reply what support we can offer to the Welsh Government and Welsh civic society, but tonight’s debate has shown that parties across Wales and across the United Kingdom support the need for us to at least bid for the 2026 games. Wales is an ambitious nation and we have an immense opportunity, but we sometimes lack a little confidence. If Welsh civic society and everyone else get behind the bid, if it is the only bid from the United Kingdom and if we get support from the UK Government, there is no reason why we cannot rejuvenate the economy, get more young people into sport and win an even greater number of medals for Wales come 2026.

Welsh Affairs

Craig Williams Excerpts

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Membership of the European Union is defined by how a country engages and how it works with partners in Brussels—both with the European Commission and the other member states. What we have is a Government who, in 2011, recognised that there should be an energy-intensive industries compensation package, but then failed to knock on the door in Brussels and make it happen. How can it be that it took five years to deliver that deal?

When it comes to the dumping of steel, the British Government are the ringleader of a set of member states that do not want to reform the anti-dumping rules—so we still have the lesser duty rule—and are cheerleaders for China, lobbying for it to have market economy status. I am afraid that we need to draw a line under this constant scapegoating of Brussels. The blame should be laid squarely at the doors of Nos. 10 and 11 Downing Street and the rest of the Cabinet. Unlike other member states, they have failed to engage in Brussels in a way that wins for British business.

The Government operate in a fog of laissez-faire ideology. They pray to the gods of the free market, and then they hope for the best. In reality, the market economy can function effectively only if it is regulated. Just as football requires the off-side rule to ensure fair competition, so our steel industry requires the right regulatory framework, so that it can trade in equitable conditions—on a level playing field. Instead, the Government’s blithe faith in the free market is driving them to lobby for China to be given market economy status, and to refuse to support the scrapping of the lesser duty rule.

I wish to state now, with utmost gravity, that if speedy action is not taken to prevent the dumping of Chinese steel, we will witness the beginning of the end of UK steel making. The Government know full well that this foundation industry is hanging by a thread. Neither free market dogma nor cosying up to Beijing should be allowed to impede their patriotic duty to emulate other EU countries and stand up for the men and women who are the backbone of the British economy.

The Minister for Enterprise and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills recently visited my constituency, and I hope they will return so that they can go to the homes of some of my constituents who have lost their jobs. I hope they will look those men, women and families in the eye and explain themselves—explain how they can claim publicly that they are supporting the steel industry, while fighting tooth and nail behind closed doors against the lifting of the lesser duty rule and for market economy status for China.

I hope those Ministers will explain how they can claim publicly that they are changing public procurement to maximise the use of British steel, while allowing the Ministry of Defence to build the latest flotilla of Royal Navy frigates with Swedish steel. I hope they will come to Aberavon and explain the breath-taking contrast between their words and their deeds, for the people of my constituency deserve an explanation.

I am certain that the British steel industry has a promising future if it is given the right support by Government. The men and women at the Port Talbot works make the finest steel that money can buy and they are breaking all production and efficiency records, but the industry requires a long-term industrial strategy based on a sustained, comprehensive approach to skills, investment, regulation, energy and industrial relations. That is why I am proud to co-chair a working group of the all-party parliamentary group on steel, which will produce a report, “Steel 2020”, on formulating a long-term industrial strategy for British and Welsh steel.

Our strategy for the future of the Welsh economy must not be limited to steel. We need a new industrial revolution grounded in the new economy of renewables and connected technology, a fourth industrial revolution such as the one that was spoken of at the recent meeting of the World Economic Forum in Davos. I see Wales at the forefront of that revolution. The Swansea Bay tidal lagoon could transform the energy industry, but frustratingly, its future is under threat owing to the Government’s perpetual flip-flopping. A positive decision on the lagoon would not only put a much needed tick in the Government’s ever-diminishing green credentials, but deliver a massive boost to the local economy. By committing to sourcing as much steel as possible from the UK, it would significantly help the UK steel industry. That project needs and deserves rapid advance. The Government need to get off the fence, and fast.

The Government’s short-sightedness is undermining other forms of renewable energy, such as wind and solar. These are burgeoning industries in my constituency, with hundreds of jobs at stake, but they are under threat because of the Government’s moves to cut price stabilisation mechanisms, such as the feed-in tariffs. The Government have been on a policy descent from “Hug a huskie” to, in the words of the Prime Minister, “Let’s cut the green crap”.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

May I point out the hypocrisy in what the hon. Gentleman is saying? There is a contradiction between supporting steel—Celsa Steel, for example—which uses so much electricity, and putting a price on that electricity for renewables?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. As we have discussed, it is clear that energy-intensive industries require support from Government. That was recognised by the Chancellor in 2011. The support that has come, finally, is welcome. The big question for me is how it could possibly have taken five years to make that happen—to get the state aid clearance that was required from the European Union. Fundamentally, the strategy for energy must be about spreading the burden of the cost more effectively so that our energy-intensive industries are not being hung out to dry by an energy policy that does not make sense. It is also about making a firm commitment so that those investing have a sense of the stability and sustainability of the market in future. We currently do not have any of those things in place, which is why we are in such a mess.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wayne David]

My hon. Friend is too modest to say this, but it is worth pointing out that he was the author of that book. I disagreed with some things in it, but it did have many words of wisdom.

My central point is that those of us who believe in devolution need to recognise that there needs to be a high degree of consensus, dialogue and debate among all politicians involved in the process, both here and in Cardiff Bay. I really hope that when the Government start from scratch, they will have learned the cardinal lesson that they have to consult—genuinely and openly, and on a cross-party basis—opinion here in Westminster. I think that all our colleagues are prepared to contribute.

It is also important that the Government work with the Welsh Assembly. It is very important that we have that dialogue with Cardiff Bay, because, to be frank, it is unthinkable that a Westminster Government could decide a devolution package that is not acceptable to the body to which power is being devolved. If they had proceeded with the draft Bill, we might have been in that situation, ridiculous though it seems. I ask the Government for dialogue not only here, but with our colleagues and friends back in the Welsh Assembly.

My second point is about the European Union. In my view, there is an overwhelmingly strong case for the United Kingdom to remain a full member of the European Union, but that case is particularly strong for us in Wales. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the European Union is vital for jobs, exports and, therefore, prosperity in Wales.

Last week the Prime Minister visited the General Electric aircraft engine maintenance plant in Nantgarw, just outside my constituency. He made his case for why Britain should remain in the EU and why it benefits south Wales and General Electric. Objectively, he had a strong case to make, because General Electric is one of my constituency’s most important employers; many of the workers travel down Nantgarw hill to work there. It recognises how important it is to have a good relationship with the EU and to be an integral part of the single European market. I have no ideological axe to grind; empirically, we recognise that it is good for our economy to be firmly linked to our partners in the rest of Europe. It is as simple and straightforward as that. It is a bread and butter issue.

On Monday night, I met representatives from DS Smith Recycling Ltd, which is a British company with a strong European presence. It is expanding its operations in an innovative way throughout the European Union, and it is a major and important employer in my constituency of Caerphilly. The company is not committed to the left or to the right; it simply wants to expand its work and be a good employer. It recognises that it would be absolute lunacy for itself and the people it employs if we extricated ourselves from the European Union. The message that went out on Monday evening was, “In the interests of the company, jobs and prosperity, please make sure that the strong case is put for Britain to remain in the European Union.”

The two companies I have mentioned have innovative and well-structured training programmes, which the EU’s structural funds contribute to in large part. Wales has been allocated £2.4 billion from the EU structural funds for the 2014 to 2020 period. Indeed, Wales is a net beneficiary—more money comes in than goes out—to the tune of £838 million a year. There are strong practical reasons for making the case over the next few weeks that Britain and Wales should remain an integral part of the European Union. It makes sense for ordinary people and for the country’s prosperity, to which we are all committed.

My final point is also linked to the prosperity of Wales, namely the question of whether Heathrow should be expanded and have a third runway. As a Welsh MP, I believe that the strongest single argument in favour of the third runway at Heathrow is the positive impact it would have on the Welsh economy. That is not just my view. The First Minister of Wales, Carwyn Jones, was clear the other day that the Welsh Government support the expansion of Heathrow because it would provide the best possible support for investment, tourism and jobs in Wales. His comments are informed by hard facts and clear analysis. It has been estimated that 85% of the new manufacturing jobs that an expanded Heathrow would generate would be created outside London and the south-east. Up to 6,000 of those manufacturing jobs would be in Wales, constituting a significant part of the 8,400 Welsh jobs accompanying a total of £6.2 billion of economic benefit.

Those facts speak for themselves. It is essential that the Government stop shilly-shallying and give the go-ahead for the expansion of Heathrow. It makes sense for the country as a whole and for Wales in particular.

Whether or not Heathrow will bring the best possible benefits to Wales depends on access. That is why it is essential that Heathrow’s expansion is accompanied by the electrification of the Paddington to south Wales railway line and the construction of a rail spur directly to Heathrow. I am aware that a consultation began this week.

[Craig Williams]

On the subject of Governments dilly-dallying, if we are going to have a third runway at Heathrow—which I support wholeheartedly—would it not make sense for the Welsh Labour Government to get on with the M4 relief road and improve the tunnels and the capacity of the M4 so that we can get to the airport?

[Wayne David]

I am in favour of that, but the decision is not up to the Government in Cardiff alone. A lot depends on what the Government in London do and on whether financial facilities are made available to the Welsh Government. That is important.

It is vital that a message goes out from the consultation that Network Rail is commencing that the Governments in Cardiff and in London are in favour of the spur to Heathrow. When the Minister replies, I would like him to say that strong representations will be made to Network Rail to make sure that we get the spur. We hope that that will be part of a longer-term project for the expansion of Heathrow airport.

I have spoken about three important issues. We want a coherent draft Wales Bill to be presented, and I hope that it will be formulated on the basis of consensus. I hope that in the next few months many Members in this Chamber will decide to pull together and argue the case for Britain’s continued membership of the European Union, highlighting its importance for Wales. I also hope that we will be able to unite in support of an expanded Heathrow airport. That, again, would be of tremendous benefit to the Welsh economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

In the spirit of St David’s day, may I first give huge congratulations to the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) on securing this important debate? More importantly, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) for introducing a bit of consensus just before my speech, which I will build on. In that spirit, I add my name to the lobby of the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) on the Severn bridge tolls, which are an important cross-party issue on which we all campaign strongly. I would certainly like to come to the meeting with the Department for Transport if Ministers can arrange that.

I want to touch on several points. I am mindful of the time limit, but as the Member for Cardiff North it would be remiss of me not to start with the Cardiff city deal. I know that my colleagues would be sad if I did not bang on about it for at least half my speech.

It is an important time for Cardiff, and an exciting time to be involved with what I see as the engine room of the Welsh economy—Cardiff and the city region. If the city deal is successful, it could bring a lot of scope, investment and vision together. The next couple of weeks will be incredibly important for our capital city. I want to make a couple of pleas from the Chamber about private sector involvement. I know that the Minister is a champion for us, and I implore him to do anything he can in the spirit of consensus and the framework of the city deal.

The Aston Martin announcement was so welcome and brilliant, and the Minister was integral to that. It resulted from championing by the UK and the Welsh Governments. If we take that partnership approach on many more issues, we could secure much more investment. We are all tempted, so close to an election, to take all the credit for anything positive in Wales, but there are many more companies floating around south Wales—and I hope north Wales, but I am unabashedly the champion of Cardiff—and working together can help secure investment.

Electrification is a key issue. When that happens in Cardiff and then in Swansea, there will be an opportunity to tie into the south Wales metro. I want to work with the Welsh Government and Network Rail to get work in the south Wales valleys into the right control period. I want to be involved in the conversations, for example, about whether the line is heavy or light. I want to do what I can, and I want the spirit of consensus to get into the city deal. I hope that the metro will be at the core of that. I realise that the next couple of months will be difficult and that we might not quite agree on everything in the run-up to the Assembly election. However, in the spirit of consensus. I very much look forward to working with Councillor Jayne Cowan in Cardiff North, who, with 16 years of experience on the council, could help deliver the metro.

I also want briefly to mention IQE in the context of the city deal. It is a great Cardiff and Welsh company that produces the compound semiconductors that we find in most electronic devices. Its relationship with Cardiff University, and the new catapult that the Chancellor of Exchequer launched in Cardiff, are bringing high-end, brilliant manufacturing to Wales—exactly the sort of industry that we need to attract together. By “together”, again I mean the UK and the Welsh Governments.

Without venturing too far into the European debate, I have to say that Cardiff University punches far above its weight. That ties into Horizon 2020 funding and the critical mass we get in the single market for research and development, which I support wholeheartedly. The metro, electrification, IQE and working with the private and third sectors will deliver a Cardiff city deal to rejuvenate south Wales. The valleys are important in the Cardiff city deal, which might start with Cardiff but is incredibly important to that critical work population of about 1.5 million people. Although Cardiff is the engine room of the Welsh economy, we need transformation for south Wales.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman alluded to the importance of the European Union for Cardiff University and research funding. He knows, of course, that the leader of the Conservative party in the Assembly has said that he will vote for Brexit. What impact does the hon. Gentleman think that that will have on higher education policy in the Conservative manifesto for the Assembly elections?

[Craig Williams]

The hon. Gentleman is trying to ruin the consensus within my party as well as the debate. I will try my best to skirt around that issue. Although I disagree with Andrew R. T. Davies, a good friend and colleague, we will work those things out when he is First Minister. I therefore would not worry about that.

Let me move on quickly to the redevelopment and challenges that I envisage for the south Wales and Cardiff economy. The hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) is not in his place, but I am sure that he will read Hansard later. The barefaced cheek of saying that we are waiting for some sort of financial package from the UK Government for the M4 relief road is unbelievable. That borrowing power—the old Welsh Development Agency powers—has been available to the Welsh Government for a considerable time and they have not done much to progress that.

[Mr David Jones]

Does my hon. Friend accept that although the Welsh Government may not have done much in south Wales, they have done nothing at all in north Wales?

[Craig Williams]

I wholeheartedly accept that, and I feel for the A55 as much as I do for the M4. However, the M4 relief road is key for our links to Heathrow, as is the spur for Network Rail. The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) referred to Andrew R. T. Davies—the next First Minister—and he has committed to having, within 12 months, a spade-ready M4 relief road. I massively welcome that and look forward to its coming to fruition.

I am conscious of the time, but I want to touch on the redevelopment of the M4 and the Eastern Bay link road. It is a shame and a travesty that Wales’s capital city does not have a circular road around it, and any visitor to the National Assembly for Wales who comes out of the Butetown tunnels then sees the national disgrace of a road that ends—it is a road to nowhere and it needs finishing. I know that phase 1 is now on the cards, but it is ridiculous to do one phase of a circular road, but to leave out a small section up to what would be an excellent gateway to the new M4 relief road. I have also touched on the metro and the tolls, on which there is cross-party consensus.

Let me briefly mention the Commonwealth games, and a bid that we must champion as a nation. Cardiff is at the core of that, but the games have the opportunity to be a real Welsh national Commonwealth games. When we consider what happened in Glasgow and Scotland, and at the Olympics in London, the kind of economic redevelopment and opportunities that a Commonwealth games presents for Wales cannot be missed. I hope that all parties in the upcoming Assembly election will have in their manifestos a clear commitment to the Commonwealth games. Sports, businesses and Welsh civic society are behind that bid, and we need political vision and leadership from Cardiff Bay. I hope that that will be the only bid within the United Kingdom, and that we can have full support from the UK Government.

I will now touch on sporting success. I asked permission from my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire to mention one hero, but I will actually mention three. He mentioned Barry Williams. I spent many a Saturday morning more than two decades ago selling match programmes with him, and he is a true champion. We finally have something in common again, because he is up for election in the Peter’s Pie competition for a Welsh rugby hero. Outside of Cardiff North, Welshpool rugby club is the finest rugby club in Wales, and I support his bid wholeheartedly. He is a true champion of Welsh rugby and a great friend.

Lewis Wilkins is a young scientist from my constituency, and he is coming to the House of Commons on Monday as part of the SET for BRITAIN initiative to encourage, support and promote Britain’s early-stage and early-career research scientists. It is a great scheme to get young people into science and research and development so early on. He will be in Portcullis House—I will not give the time and date, but if anyone wants to join me in going to see Lewis Wilkins, they will meet a true champion of science and a true advocate for Cardiff and Cardiff University.

Finally, I want to mention Mrs Beth Baldwin, whose son tragically died of undetected type-1 diabetes. This week she presented a petition to the Assembly on raising awareness of diabetes and on having a simple prick test—perhaps as part of schools’ injection processes—to discover whether children are diabetic. She received the Pride of Britain award, and she is an incredibly brave woman from an incredibly supportive and great Cardiff family that have turned a tragedy into a great campaign. She is a true Welsh hero. I am delighted that she will be coming to No. 10 later this month to present another petition about having a gold standard or minimum for GPs and other health care professionals to routinely test for diabetes.

I hope that I have captured the economic development, excitement and potential of Cardiff and Wales. We should not talk it down too much. We have great opportunities, but a Commonwealth games bid could draw much of that redevelopment together, and I very much want that to happen.

--- Later in debate ---

[Byron Davies (Gower) (Con)]

I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak today. I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) on securing this debate. I am very conscious of what he said about different Members having different matters to raise, as I have several areas of concern that I would like to discuss. I thought I would do that by taking Members on a very quick geographical tour of the south Wales coastline.

I will start at Cardiff Bay, the seat of the National Assembly for Wales. During my time as an Assembly Member, I fell upon what must be one of the most scandalous episodes in Welsh devolution. One of the main jobs of any Government is to ensure that the public receives value for money, but I am afraid that, in this tale, the public received absolutely no value from the Welsh Government in the Regeneration and Investment Fund for Wales. It is crucial that Governments attach the highest importance to public assets, but, on this occasion, the Welsh Government not only sold land for an incredible amount under its true value, but seemed completely complacent during the process of the sale.

There was huge weakness in the oversight of this project. It is incomprehensible that the “jewel in the crown” site at Lisvane in Cardiff was sold to a preferred purchaser for £l.8 million, when its potential open market value for housing was at least £39 million.

[Craig Williams]

The Welsh Government sold the land in Lisvane in Cardiff North, the most valuable land in Wales with the richest agricultural output, for £15,000 an acre, when it is worth £1.2 million an acre. It is a national scandal. If it had happened in this House, does my hon. Friend think that people would have been held to account and that there would have been resignations?

[Byron Davies]

I am absolutely sure that my hon. Friend is right. I am amazed that the First Minister did not hold anyone to account and sack them. That perhaps speaks volumes.

Indeed, Guernsey-based South Wales Land Developments, the preferred purchaser, which bought 15 sites for £21 million, has made £19 million by selling just a few of them. That casts a very dark shadow over what the Welsh Government were doing during the process. The cavalier approach to the disposal of public assets is quite disturbing. Furthermore, questions must be asked about the valuers, Lambert Smith Hampton, and the fund managers, Amber Infrastructure, which gave the Welsh Government extremely poor advice.

There have been two recent reports on the Regeneration Investment Fund for Wales by the Wales Audit Office and the Welsh Assembly Public Accounts Committee, both of which are damning in respect of all parties involved in the deal. The Wales Audit Office made it clear that effective oversight of the project was difficult because of the governance weaknesses in establishing the RIFW. I know that the Serious Fraud Office has taken a look at the matter, but how deep did it go? I would like it to reassess any new evidence. Anything the Wales Office can do to get to the bottom of the issue would be very welcome.

Moving on further down the coastline, we come to the steelworks at Port Talbot, which plays a huge part in the landscape of south Wales. It is a crucial part not just of the economic fabric of the country, but of the social fabric, and nowhere is that truer than in my constituency of Gower. For decades, the works has provided for people across south Wales. They either work directly at the plant or in the supply chain. Indeed, the community surrounding the steelworks has survived, and indeed thrived, because of the plant. It is a crucial part of the community, and it is vital that we work together to ensure that the industry has a successful and prosperous future.

I have met Ministers and discussed their efforts to help the steel industry win procurement contracts. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister will help where he can to stimulate the demand for steel, which will have a positive knock-on effect on opening up opportunities in the supply chain in Wales. I recently visited Rosyth in Scotland to see the new aircraft carriers and was delighted to learn that 94% of the steel used in their construction was British steel.

Continuing our journey around the south Wales coastline, we come to Swansea Bay and the Swansea tidal lagoon. Much political point-scoring has been attempted on this, particularly in the local press, which is rather a shame. We are all at one—we all want to see the scheme developed. It will be a pilot scheme and we should realise that it will cost an awful lot of money to develop. There will be a great deal of public money involved, but it is the first of what could be several schemes. The Government are right to sit down and look at the whole thing in the round. I hope we will see it developed one day, and I know that other politicians in the area share that hope.

I was delighted with the recent announcement from Sir Terry Matthews about the Swansea Bay region. That scheme needs to be pushed along, perhaps through an elected mayor system. I am keen for that debate to be opened in Swansea. We need more infrastructure in Swansea, such as a parkway railway station. At present there is Swansea railway station at one end of the town and the bus station at the other end. For a successful bay region, we should consider that.

I shall move quickly round to the Burry inlet and talk about my constituency and the north end of Gower, the first area of outstanding natural beauty in the UK. I want to speak about the loss of the cockle industry and the loss to the economy of about £23 million over 10 years. That was once an extremely successful industry in Gower that supported the community and was the livelihood of many people. Now there is a 95% mortality of the cockles when they get to one year old. They should live to four or five years old. They are usually harvested when they are 18 months to two years old, but can be harvested up to about five years.

The problem has existed for about 10 years. The cockle beds have never recovered since 2005 when the mortality started. In 2000, this area had the best cockles in Europe and exported to France and Spain, bringing tens of millions of pounds into the region. The cockles are no longer suitable for the high-end market and there is a limit to how many small cockles can be sold. The nucleus of the cockle industry is Penclawdd and there are questions about its viability now that the main processor has been taken over by a Dutch company.

Local cocklers are unable to guarantee a regular supply of cockles to the processors. The season starts in May but is finished by July, whereas it used to be a year-round business. The cocklers believe that the cockles are being killed by discharges of sewage from waste treatment plants on the south Carmarthenshire side and from sewage works at Gowerton. Samples have been taken of dead and rotting cockles and of some live ones and these have been analysed, but we have never seen the results. The cocklers are calling for further scientific research, including a parasitology investigation, which has never been carried out before and requires funding from the Welsh Government. Research has discovered that each cockle in these waters carries up to 29 different types of parasite, many times more than is found in cockle stocks elsewhere in the UK and along the Atlantic seaboard from north Africa up to Scandinavia.

There are 35 licences still in existence in the Burry inlet and 25 of them are still being used. People are paying for licences but cannot make a living. In the 1960s and 1970s, up to 100 people were working there, gathering cockles 52 weeks a year. The licences cost £700 a year but they can no longer be transferred to sons or relatives, who have to go on a waiting list to be given a licence. There are still 120 people on the waiting list in Gower. There is much hope in the community that the industry will recover, and here in this House we must do all we can to support the efforts to help the industry.

When I was an Assembly Member I raised the matter many times in the Chamber. Since I have been a Member of this House I have written to the Welsh Government to try to get them to fund an inquiry into why the cockles are dying. To date I have had no success. We need to find the cause of this problem and ensure that the cocklers whose livelihood has been greatly affected are treated with the respect and dignity that they deserve to get this great product and industry thriving again. Anything that the Wales Office can do to encourage the Welsh Government into action would be very welcome.

Oral Answers to Questions

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I am slightly surprised by the hon. Lady’s tone. We have already put £125 million on the table to help with rail electrification. The Welsh Government may want to put that into the pot. We have already put £50 million towards the compound semiconductor catapult centre in Cardiff. There is no question mark over our commitment to securing an ambitious city deal for Cardiff. As I have said, there are some questions about the nature of the Welsh Government’s financial support for such a deal, but I am sure that, with the correct attitude, we can work through those issues and land a deal.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

I am sure the Secretary of State will join me in welcoming the massive announcement that Aston Martin will be building its new vehicle in south Wales. Does that not emphasise the important nature of the private sector involvement in the city deal, and what is he doing to ensure that the Welsh Government and local authorities engage with the private sector so that they lever in more money?

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. First, though, let me put on record our congratulations to him and his wife, Clare, as it is a few days after the birth of their second child. It is wonderful to see him taking a break from paternity leave to stand here today championing the interests of his constituents in Cardiff. He is absolutely right on two counts. The first is on the success of bringing the Aston Martin deal to Wales, which is a great example of the Welsh and the UK Governments working together in a true team Wales approach. The second is on the importance of business and the fact that it is right at the heart not just of helping to create the city deal vision, but of delivering it as well.

Draft Wales Bill

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Mr Mark Williams]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman, if only because he has given me a chance to catch my breath. Would seeing those powers controlled in Wales mean the unravelling of our constitution and the end of the Union? Should we have not started from the principle that what is devolved to Scotland and Northern Ireland should be devolved to Wales? Better still, if one believes in subsidiarity, should we have not started with the principle that all powers are devolved, and it is for the Secretary of State and Westminster to argue the case for reserving them to Westminster?

However, we are where we are and we have this Bill. The hon. Member for Wrexham, who is not in his place, talked about the need for a constitutional convention and the right hon. Member for Clwyd West said he was open to the case for that. He described the Bill as a “bolt-on”. That and the devolutionary drift in other parts of the UK points to the need to look at such matters in the round. My party has always believed in a federal Britain, with home rule for Wales, and we need a constitutional convention to look into that.

Some have asserted that there should be a pause and, on balance, I agree. Too many concerns have been expressed, as the Select Committee will reveal at some point in the future. The question is: how much of a pause should there be? If a pause means that we lose a legislative slot for the Wales Bill to carry forward devolution, I would be immensely concerned. However, the issues on which the Secretary of State has openly reflected, such as looking again at the necessity test, or whatever form of words we use for that, ministerial consents and the scale of the list of reservations, are a big body of work that needs to be done urgently.

I would not say that the Secretary of State was disdainful when I talked about the need for robust dialogue with Assembly colleagues, but that dialogue needs to happen. I was privy to discussions between Westminster MPs representing the four parties and our Assembly colleagues and given the level of concern expressed since the draft Bill was published, that needs addressing. There are rumours of delays to the suspected date of Second Reading. I do not expect to get a date at the end of the Committee, but we need to be mindful of that and of the work that needs to be done.

The Secretary of State said that he wants the matters to be settled. The issue of a distinct jurisdiction has gained much traction in discussions, with various questions fired around the Committee today asking people to define what that means. I am not a lawyer—perhaps that is obvious—so I cannot give that definition.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Mark Williams]

I will carry on. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

[Craig Williams]

I hope he answers my question anyway.

[Mr Mark Williams]

I know his question, but I am not going to give him an answer because he tried it on the hon. Member for Llanelli. A debate is going on about the question of a distinct—not separate—jurisdiction. The genie is out of the bottle and if the Secretary of State wants a resolution—I know he is sincere about that—that issue must be addressed and I think it should be addressed in the Bill.

Sir Paul Silk said that politicians should be open to a review between the Assembly Government and the Westminster Government and a time period of 10 years was referred to, which is probably too long, given the debate that we have had. That issue will not go away. Hon. Members still here in a few years’ time—I hope to be—will have to revisit the Welsh jurisdiction issue unless it is dealt with soon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your excellent stewardship for the second time this week, Mr Hanson, for my very first Welsh Grand Committee?

As members of the party that was the architect of devolution, my colleagues and I would naturally support a Bill that moved to elevate the Assembly to a reserved powers model, but the draft Bill we have been presented with is, in reality, an instrument to roll back the powers of the Assembly and make its ability to govern effectively restrictive and cumbersome.

As a member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, I have spent many long hours pondering the Bill and hearing substantial evidence on it. The conclusion I have reached is that the Bill is, at best, fragmented, patchwork and arguably a complete shambles. Throughout the evidence sessions of the Committee, we repeatedly heard widespread condemnation of the draft Bill from the legal profession and noted academics. We read in the press that there has also been condemnation from within the Conservative party itself.

I will touch on two areas today: energy and the necessity test. I welcome the initiative to allow the Welsh Assembly to have authority over onshore oil and gas extraction, including fracking. I also welcome the move to allow the Welsh Assembly to grant planning consent for energy projects of a capacity of up to 350 MW. However, I am sure that large renewable investors in Wales will be disappointed with that limit.

It could be argued that if the renewables industry in Wales is to survive, companies need to be confident that they have a guaranteed price for energy—a so-called subsidy-free contract for difference. They need confidence in planning decisions for both developments and the associated grid, so the draft Wales Bill should allow planning decisions on both those things to be made in Cardiff, not in Westminster. The renewable energy industry needs that boost; it needs the confidence to allow it to continue to attract investors.

[Craig Williams]

Does the hon. Lady welcome, in the spirit of the Bill and localism, the fact that the power she succinctly puts forward is coming to local authorities in Wales through the Energy Bill? Local authorities will be able to grant that power.

[Carolyn Harris]

I can only speak for those in the industry who have lobbied me, who feel that the Wales Bill will give them no confidence to attract investors. The current provisions are not sufficient.

The Government of Wales Act 2006, which governs how the Assembly currently operates, contains basic tests that the Assembly must meet before it can legislate. However, the draft Bill increases the number of tests from nine to 13. The Assembly’s own Presiding Officer and others have pointed out that that will make the work of the Assembly far more complicated.

There is much controversy around the necessity test. The remit of the test is that the Assembly must be convinced the Act to be passed is necessary. The draft Wales Bill is littered with references to the necessity test. For example, the Welsh Assembly will only be able to modify the law if it is convinced that that will have

“no greater effect on the general application of the private…law than is necessary”.

Even “necessity” has various definitions. The Assembly’s director of legal services agreed with that point and referred to necessity’s several different meanings in law. As a consequence, more cases could end up in the Supreme Court to decide what necessity means in each particular context. That will only cause confusion, slow down the Assembly’s work and ultimately cost the taxpayer significant money.

The Law Society of England and Wales, as my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen mentioned, also warned that the necessity tests are drafted in such a way that they could be challenged in the course of ordinary civil or criminal cases. Surely the Assembly, as an elected body, should be allowed to make decisions on the policy areas that are devolved to it. There should be no demand on it to justify a policy it wants to implement as necessary. It would be in the interests of all if the necessity test were entirely removed from the Wales Bill.

I would like to thank the Secretary of State and his officials for all their hard work but I suggest they go away, sleep on it and come back with a completely different draft Bill.

[Craig Williams]

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson, and to take part in my first Welsh Grand Committee? I would say that I will be brief, but along with many words we have spoken today, it seems that in the Grand Committee, the word “brief” does not quite mean what I thought it did. I hope to contain my remarks.

As a Member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, I would like to pay tribute to our Chairman. He has brought Members within and across parties together on many of these issues.

The hon. Member for Swansea East is the only Member I know who could get away with claiming the architecture of devolution and then go on in the same breath to complain how complex it is. It amuses me no end but she carried it off with her usual charm.

I support the process through which the Bill has come forward. I had to pinch myself on a couple of occasions during the debate to remind myself that we are discussing the draft Bill. We are not discussing the end Bill, which I am sure will dominate the Welsh Affairs Committee and the normal legislative process in the House once we get it. This is a draft Bill and that is the way I have approached it, with the constructive criticism that a lot of people from all parties have brought to the Wales Office. It is not just that. It seems to have taken Welsh academia and the Welsh Governance Centre by surprise that we are talking about constitutional issues and are again seeking to empower Wales a little bit more.

I was 12 years old at the time of the 1997 referendum and I have no doubt that when my grandchildren are 12 they will still be talking about a separate jurisdiction. The genie is out of the bottle. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd for the way that she approaches the issue in a clear and concise manner, and I understand completely where Plaid Cymru comes from, although I disagree fundamentally with her on most of the points she has made in Committee and, more broadly, in the Chamber. We need to understand as Welsh politicians that it is okay to disagree and to disagree forever. I cannot see how we think we are all going to get round a table and finally agree forever on Welsh devolution. That is simply never going to happen and is an aspiration that none of us should share. As a proud Welshman and a Welsh MP, I love Committees. I love joining Committees, I love serving on Committees and I love setting up Committees. I just think we need to be mindful of this constitutional journey we are on. There will be no terminus, no end, but there will be significant movements, and this is one of the most significant that I have seen and studied.

Of course, this is the beginning of the process and it is always interesting to hear calls for people to pause at the beginning of anything, but during this draft stage it is very welcome. I do accept the premise of my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West about the piecemeal nature of devolution. Is it where we want to be? I do not think so; it is not where I want to be as a proud Welshman in terms of protecting the Union forever. The United Kingdom has a glorious unwritten constitution which has worked for a couple of years, and I suppose we are just seeing the nations in this Union coming together now and stapling. I recognise where the constant call is coming from with Plaid Cymru but I am bemused and confused at the noises—

[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

I am very interested in the hon. Gentleman’s comment about being uncomfortable with the piecemeal nature of devolution. He must surely then support the idea of constitutional convention.

[Craig Williams]

I do not at this moment. I can see the argument for looking holistically at the Union, at the four nations and how to draw this together within our glorious unwritten constitution, but the political calls for that being made at the moment are tied to the Bill and efforts to pause it, and not for good reasons. I understand the broader opinion about protecting the Union—I take it that the hon. Gentleman is a proud Unionist, as I am—but I do not accept that we should link that to the Bill and further powers for Wales. This is an important juncture for Welsh politics and the Assembly, and we should crack on and take a pragmatic approach.

The Wales Governance Centre and academia have commented on the Bill, but what are we going to do as a nation if we cannot draw together? It seems to me that the Government come up with ideas, happily produce them for public scrutiny, take it all on the chin, then everyone reacts. There is never a response along the lines of, “This is what we as a Welsh nation, academics and legal experts have come up with after consideration.” It should not take anyone by surprise that we are in this position. The onus is on those people to come up with more practical solutions—or just some solutions, not constant entirely negative feedback.

Briefly—I have fallen into my own trap straightaway, as I am not very brief—in this regard, my Labour fan, since we are picking fans from alternative parties, is Lord Morris of Aberavon. His clear view on the single jurisdiction is out there. The starkness of what the First Minister has said—and is saying—is not apparent to me. I do not know why we keep referring to the single jurisdiction. What does the shadow Secretary of State mean by “distinct jurisdiction”? I did not get a clear and concise answer—she requested one from the Secretary of State—and I am more than happy to give way if she has come up with a meaning.

That is the nub of the issue. What on earth is a distinct jurisdiction? If it is a different jurisdiction, we have that in housing in Wales. The Assembly has cracked on and, in layman’s terms, we have a distinct jurisdiction on housing law as it comes through the Assembly and as it develops. We are talking about only 3% of UK —England and Wales—laws; 3% are effected by the Assembly. Why on earth are we looking at getting that 97% down to the Assembly? It simply does not make sense to think about a separate jurisdiction, and it does not make sense to go for a distinct jurisdiction. It sounds like a political soundbite in the run-up to the Assembly elections. I get the political sentiment behind the proposal, but I do not get any sense of a legal rationale.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Have we not been told that we cannot even consider a distinct legal jurisdiction? We have not even got to the position where we discuss maturely what this actually means. That surely is something that we should look at and go into greater detail about, but we have not had the room to discuss it properly.

[Craig Williams]

I have never known Plaid Cymru to wait for permission to discuss or look at something. If the hon. Lady is suggesting that she should seek our permission before exploring anything, I welcome that due deference, but I do not think that that is the case. If someone had a clear definition of “distinct jurisdiction” it would have been published and it would be out there. There would be a clear answer, but no one in the Committee can answer the question of what a distinct jurisdiction is.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

To be fair, there are three models in the Bill.

[Craig Williams]

At least. The hon. Lady emphasises my point for me. She is asking for clarity in the draft Bill, and this is the panacea that people come up with. There are already three models. If we want clarity, “distinct jurisdiction” does not solve the problem. I think that in many areas of law Wales already has it, so I do not see why we need to make reference beyond this practical solution. I accept what the Secretary of State said about protocol and looking at the way in which our legal system operates. That is a separate issue—a distinct issue—from what we are talking about, but there is bit of maturity in Welsh politics and where the Assembly is at. We should recognise that it now has the power to effect laws, and it has, for the sake of argument, a distinct jurisdiction, but I still holds my hands up, as I have no idea what that means.

On reserved matters, we have seen some welcome movement by the Secretary of State and the Wales Office, but I see the complications. Space is an obvious one. Why on earth is that in the Bill? I wholly welcome the spaceport—it should of course go to north Wales. The industry, the sector and the technology are developing and they need to be future-proofed. The Bill should be future-proofed, and space should be a reserved matter—but we could argue at length about hovercraft.

To conclude, there is a clash between political reality and academia. I find completely bemusing the emotive terms that some academics and Welsh politicians have used when discussing the Bill. I can see how people can get emotional about a Commonwealth games bid from Wales and about the city deal for Cardiff and the transformational effect on south Wales, but I cannot see how people can get so emotive about the deep constitutional debates that we are having at the moment. Of course, the onus is on us to get excited about it, because if we do not get excited, I do not think anyone in Morrisons in Aberystwyth, or in Tesco or Asda in Cardiff, will be getting excited at all. I call for a mature, pragmatic approach to the Bill, which is a huge step for Wales. I welcome the responsibility that the Bill would bring to Wales with income tax devolution—true responsibility for the Welsh Government.

Draft Wales Bill

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Mr Mark Williams]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman, if only because he has given me a chance to catch my breath. Would seeing those powers controlled in Wales mean the unravelling of our constitution and the end of the Union? Should we have not started from the principle that what is devolved to Scotland and Northern Ireland should be devolved to Wales? Better still, if one believes in subsidiarity, should we have not started with the principle that all powers are devolved, and it is for the Secretary of State and Westminster to argue the case for reserving them to Westminster?

However, we are where we are and we have this Bill. The hon. Member for Wrexham, who is not in his place, talked about the need for a constitutional convention and the right hon. Member for Clwyd West said he was open to the case for that. He described the Bill as a “bolt-on”. That and the devolutionary drift in other parts of the UK points to the need to look at such matters in the round. My party has always believed in a federal Britain, with home rule for Wales, and we need a constitutional convention to look into that.

Some have asserted that there should be a pause and, on balance, I agree. Too many concerns have been expressed, as the Select Committee will reveal at some point in the future. The question is: how much of a pause should there be? If a pause means that we lose a legislative slot for the Wales Bill to carry forward devolution, I would be immensely concerned. However, the issues on which the Secretary of State has openly reflected, such as looking again at the necessity test, or whatever form of words we use for that, ministerial consents and the scale of the list of reservations, are a big body of work that needs to be done urgently.

I would not say that the Secretary of State was disdainful when I talked about the need for robust dialogue with Assembly colleagues, but that dialogue needs to happen. I was privy to discussions between Westminster MPs representing the four parties and our Assembly colleagues and given the level of concern expressed since the draft Bill was published, that needs addressing. There are rumours of delays to the suspected date of Second Reading. I do not expect to get a date at the end of the Committee, but we need to be mindful of that and of the work that needs to be done.

The Secretary of State said that he wants the matters to be settled. The issue of a distinct jurisdiction has gained much traction in discussions, with various questions fired around the Committee today asking people to define what that means. I am not a lawyer—perhaps that is obvious—so I cannot give that definition.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Mark Williams]

I will carry on. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.

[Craig Williams]

I hope he answers my question anyway.

[Mr Mark Williams]

I know his question, but I am not going to give him an answer because he tried it on the hon. Member for Llanelli. A debate is going on about the question of a distinct—not separate—jurisdiction. The genie is out of the bottle and if the Secretary of State wants a resolution—I know he is sincere about that—that issue must be addressed and I think it should be addressed in the Bill.

Sir Paul Silk said that politicians should be open to a review between the Assembly Government and the Westminster Government and a time period of 10 years was referred to, which is probably too long, given the debate that we have had. That issue will not go away. Hon. Members still here in a few years’ time—I hope to be—will have to revisit the Welsh jurisdiction issue unless it is dealt with soon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your excellent stewardship for the second time this week, Mr Hanson, for my very first Welsh Grand Committee?

As members of the party that was the architect of devolution, my colleagues and I would naturally support a Bill that moved to elevate the Assembly to a reserved powers model, but the draft Bill we have been presented with is, in reality, an instrument to roll back the powers of the Assembly and make its ability to govern effectively restrictive and cumbersome.

As a member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, I have spent many long hours pondering the Bill and hearing substantial evidence on it. The conclusion I have reached is that the Bill is, at best, fragmented, patchwork and arguably a complete shambles. Throughout the evidence sessions of the Committee, we repeatedly heard widespread condemnation of the draft Bill from the legal profession and noted academics. We read in the press that there has also been condemnation from within the Conservative party itself.

I will touch on two areas today: energy and the necessity test. I welcome the initiative to allow the Welsh Assembly to have authority over onshore oil and gas extraction, including fracking. I also welcome the move to allow the Welsh Assembly to grant planning consent for energy projects of a capacity of up to 350 MW. However, I am sure that large renewable investors in Wales will be disappointed with that limit.

It could be argued that if the renewables industry in Wales is to survive, companies need to be confident that they have a guaranteed price for energy—a so-called subsidy-free contract for difference. They need confidence in planning decisions for both developments and the associated grid, so the draft Wales Bill should allow planning decisions on both those things to be made in Cardiff, not in Westminster. The renewable energy industry needs that boost; it needs the confidence to allow it to continue to attract investors.

[Craig Williams]

Does the hon. Lady welcome, in the spirit of the Bill and localism, the fact that the power she succinctly puts forward is coming to local authorities in Wales through the Energy Bill? Local authorities will be able to grant that power.

[Carolyn Harris]

I can only speak for those in the industry who have lobbied me, who feel that the Wales Bill will give them no confidence to attract investors. The current provisions are not sufficient.

The Government of Wales Act 2006, which governs how the Assembly currently operates, contains basic tests that the Assembly must meet before it can legislate. However, the draft Bill increases the number of tests from nine to 13. The Assembly’s own Presiding Officer and others have pointed out that that will make the work of the Assembly far more complicated.

There is much controversy around the necessity test. The remit of the test is that the Assembly must be convinced the Act to be passed is necessary. The draft Wales Bill is littered with references to the necessity test. For example, the Welsh Assembly will only be able to modify the law if it is convinced that that will have

“no greater effect on the general application of the private…law than is necessary”.

Even “necessity” has various definitions. The Assembly’s director of legal services agreed with that point and referred to necessity’s several different meanings in law. As a consequence, more cases could end up in the Supreme Court to decide what necessity means in each particular context. That will only cause confusion, slow down the Assembly’s work and ultimately cost the taxpayer significant money.

The Law Society of England and Wales, as my hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen mentioned, also warned that the necessity tests are drafted in such a way that they could be challenged in the course of ordinary civil or criminal cases. Surely the Assembly, as an elected body, should be allowed to make decisions on the policy areas that are devolved to it. There should be no demand on it to justify a policy it wants to implement as necessary. It would be in the interests of all if the necessity test were entirely removed from the Wales Bill.

I would like to thank the Secretary of State and his officials for all their hard work but I suggest they go away, sleep on it and come back with a completely different draft Bill.

[Craig Williams]

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson, and to take part in my first Welsh Grand Committee? I would say that I will be brief, but along with many words we have spoken today, it seems that in the Grand Committee, the word “brief” does not quite mean what I thought it did. I hope to contain my remarks.

As a Member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, I would like to pay tribute to our Chairman. He has brought Members within and across parties together on many of these issues.

My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East is the only Member I know who could get away with claiming the architecture of devolution and then go on in the same breath to complain how complex it is. It amuses me no end but she carried it off with her usual charm.

I support the process in which the Bill has come forward. I had to pinch myself on a couple of occasions during the debate to remind myself that we are discussing the draft Bill. We are not discussing the end Bill, which I am sure will dominate the Welsh Affairs Committee and the normal legislative process in the House once we get it. This is a draft Bill and that is the way I have approached it, with the constructive criticism that a lot of people from all parties have brought to the Wales Office. It is not just that. It seems to have taken Welsh academia and the Welsh Governance Centre by surprise that we are talking about constitutional issues and are again seeking to empower Wales a little bit more.

I was 12 years old at the time of the 1997 referendum and I have no doubt that when my grandchildren are 12 they will still be talking about a separate jurisdiction. The genie is out of the bottle. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd for the way that she approaches the issue in a clear and concise manner, and I understand completely where Plaid Cymru comes from, although I disagree fundamentally with her on most of the points she has made in Committee and, more broadly, in the Chamber. We need to understand as Welsh politicians that it is okay to disagree and to disagree forever. I cannot see how we think we are all going to get round a table and finally agree forever on Welsh devolution. That is simply never going to happen and is an aspiration that none of us should share. As a proud Welshman and a Welsh MP, I love Committees. I love joining Committees, I love serving on Committees and I love setting up Committees. I just think we need to be mindful of this constitutional journey we are on. There will be no terminus, no end, but there will be significant movements, and this is one the most significant that I have seen and studied.

Of course, this is the beginning of the process and it is always interesting to hear calls for people to pause at the beginning of anything, but during this draft stage it is very welcome. I do accept the premise of my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West about the piecemeal nature of devolution. Is it where we want to be? I do not think so; it is not where I want to be as a proud Welshman in terms of protecting the Union forever. The United Kingdom has a glorious unwritten constitution which has worked for a couple of years, and I suppose we are just seeing the nations in this Union coming together now and stapling. I recognise where the constant call is coming from with Plaid Cymru but I am bemused and confused at the noises—

[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

I am very interested in the hon. Gentleman’s comment about being uncomfortable with the piecemeal nature of devolution. He must surely then support the idea of constitutional convention.

[Craig Williams]

I do not at this moment. I can see the argument for looking holistically at the Union, at the four nations and how to draw this together within our glorious unwritten constitution, but the political calls for that being made at the moment are tied to the Bill and efforts to pause it, and not for good reasons. I understand the broader opinion about protecting the Union—I take it that the hon. Gentleman is a proud Unionist, as I am—but I do not accept that we should link that to the Bill and further powers for Wales. This is an important juncture for Welsh politics and the Assembly, and we should crack on and take a pragmatic approach.

The Wales Governance Centre and academia have commented on the Bill, but what are we going to do as a nation if we cannot draw together? It seems to me that the Government come up with ideas, happily produce them for public scrutiny, take it all on the chin, then everyone reacts. There is never a response along the lines of, “This is what we as a Welsh nation, academics and legal experts have come up with after consideration.” It should not take anyone by surprise that we are in this position. The onus is on those people to come up with more practical solutions—or just some solutions, not constant entirely negative feedback.

Briefly—I have fallen into my own trap straightaway, as I am not very brief—in this regard, my Labour fan, since we are picking fans from alternative parties, is Lord Morris of Aberavon. His clear view on the single jurisdiction is out there. The starkness of what the First Minister has said—and is saying—is not apparent to me. I do not know why we keep referring to the single jurisdiction. What does the shadow Secretary of State mean by “distinct jurisdiction”? I did not get clear and concise answer—she requested one from the Secretary of State—and I am more than happy to give way if she has come up with a meaning.

That is the nub of the issue. What on earth is a distinct jurisdiction? If it is a different jurisdiction, we have that in housing in Wales. The Assembly has cracked on and, in layman’s terms, we have a distinct jurisdiction on housing law as it comes through the Assembly and as it develops. We are talking about only 3% of UK —England and Wales—laws; 3% are effected by the Assembly. Why on earth are we looking at getting that 97% down to the Assembly? It simply does not make sense to think about a separate jurisdiction, and it does not make sense to go for a distinct jurisdiction. It sounds like a political soundbite in the run-up to the Assembly elections. I get the political sentiment behind the proposal, but I do not get any sense of a legal rationale.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Have we not been told that we cannot even consider a distinct legal jurisdiction? We have not even got to the position where we discuss maturely what this actually means. That surely is something that we should look at and go into greater detail, but we have not had the room to discuss it properly.

[Craig Williams]

I have never known Plaid Cymru to wait for permission to discuss or look at something. If the hon. Lady is suggesting that she should seek our permission before exploring anything, I welcome that due deference, but I do not think that that is the case. If someone had a clear definition of “distinct jurisdiction” it would have been published and it would be out there. There would be a clear answer, but no one in the Committee can answer the question of what a distinct jurisdiction is.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

To be fair, there are three models in the Bill.

[Craig Williams]

At least. The hon. Lady emphasises my point for me. She is asking for clarity in the draft Bill, and this is the panacea that people come up with. There are already three models. If we want clarity, “distinct jurisdiction” does not solve the problem. I think that in many areas of law Wales already has it, so I do not see why we need to make reference beyond this practical solution. I accept what the Secretary of State said about protocol and looking at the way in which our legal system operates. That is a separate issue—a distinct issue—from what we are talking about, but there is bit of maturity in Welsh politics and where the Assembly is at. We should recognise that it now has the power to effect laws, and it has, for the sake of argument, a distinct jurisdiction, but I still holds my hands up, as I have no idea what that means.

On reserved matters, we have seen some welcome movement by the Secretary of State and the Wales Office, but I see the complications. Space is an obvious one. Why on earth is that in the Bill? I wholly welcome the spaceport—it should of course go to north Wales. The industry, the sector and the technology are developing and they need to be future-proofed. The Bill should be future-proofed, and space should be a reserved matter—but we could argue at length about hovercraft.

To conclude, there is a clash between political reality and academia. I find completely bemusing the emotive terms that some academics and Welsh politicians have used when discussing the Bill. I can see how people can get emotional about a Commonwealth games bid from Wales and about the city deal for Cardiff and the transformational effect on south Wales, but I cannot see how people can get so emotive about the deep constitutional debates that we are having at the moment. Of course, the onus is on us to get excited about it, because if we do not get excited, I do not think anyone in Morrisons in Aberystwyth, or in Tesco or Asda in Cardiff, will be getting excited at all. I call for a mature, pragmatic approach to the Bill, which is a huge step for Wales. I welcome the responsibility that the Bill would bring to Wales with income tax devolution—true responsibility for the Welsh Government.

Draft Wales Bill (Morning sitting)

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Nia Griffith]

As a bare minimum, we should expect the Secretary of State to have confidence in his own draft legislation, not to rush forward with some half-baked set of reservations that not even he supports.

The failure of the Wales Office to challenge Departments to explain what needs to be reserved, not just what they want to have reserved, is quite remarkable. In the words of the Assembly’s Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee:

“The absence of a principled approach has contributed to the excessive number and complexity of the reservations.”

In this week’s report by the Wales Governance Centre and University College London, they describe the failure to think rationally about what needs to be reserved as a “fundamental defect” in the Bill.

Perhaps if the Secretary of State and his Department commanded more respect in Whitehall we would not have ended up with a shoddy list of reservations that literally no one supports.

The biggest problem with the reservations is the completely ill-advised decision to reserve the entirety of criminal and civil law. That makes absolutely no sense and is the clearest example of the Bill rolling back the Assembly’s powers. The Assembly is a law-making body, so preventing it from having any ability to change the law is both illogical and unacceptable. It reduces the status of the Assembly to a second-class legislature. It is directly contrary to the Silk Commission’s warning that the reserved powers model must

“do nothing to restrict the existing and future ability of the National Assembly to create criminal sanctions where it is necessary”.

The rationale behind the decision to reserve the entirety of the law is given in the explanatory notes. The Bill seeks to provide

“a general level of protection for the unified legal system of England and Wales, whilst allowing the Assembly some latitude to modify these areas of law”.

But the 2011 referendum was about giving the Assembly full powers to legislate in the areas devolved to it, not some latitude to modify the law. So the Secretary of State needs to reconsider this crucial aspect of the Bill. One solution would be to introduce a distinct legal jurisdiction for Wales, as recommended by the Assembly’s Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee and endorsed unanimously by the Assembly.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

Since the hon. Lady is fond of quoting, will she comment on the view of Lord Morris of Aberavon, her predecessor and a Labour Attorney General, who ruled out the single jurisdiction? If she supports that, will she explain what she means by “distinct”? Does she have a simple term for it? What does it mean?

[Nia Griffith]

The term “distinct” has been used to suggest that we would not need to have separate courts, that lawyers could practise on both sides of the border—we would have, if you like, a separate book, separate legislation, but not a separate court system. As I just said, that is one solution that might be suggested; it is not the only solution. If the Secretary of State can show us what other plans he might have, perhaps he can bring forward something different, but it clearly needs to be looked at. We understand the problem; we have not yet had a solution from the Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Craig Williams]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way to me?

[Ian C. Lucas]

I will give way to the Back Bencher opposite.

[Craig Williams]

The hon. Gentleman touched on S4C. Does he welcome the fantastic announcement that its budget will be protected by this Parliament and this Government?

[Ian C. Lucas]

I do welcome that. I tabled parliamentary questions on that very issue earlier this week. I am pleased that Welsh MPs across the Chamber have had a strong voice in the matter.

Oral Answers to Questions

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

The route is a matter for the Welsh Government, and we encourage them to consider all options. We want the project to start as soon as possible. Even if it started to the earliest possible timescale outlined by the Welsh Government, it would still not be completed until the end of 2022, which is unacceptable.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

6. What discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on proposals for a Cardiff city deal.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb)]

Last week my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer visited Cardiff and announced his desire to deliver a city deal by Budget 2016. We are now working with the Cardiff capital region to deliver on ambitious proposals that will increase economic growth, not only in the city but across the entire south Wales region.

[Craig Williams]

Last week the Chancellor brought a welcome sense of urgency to the Cardiff city deal process, with the deadline of March and a down payment of £50 million for a compound semiconductor catapult centre. Does the Secretary of State agree that with a semiconductor catapult at the heart of the city deal process, we stand a real chance of securing a long-term transformation of the south Wales economy?

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend is right, and I put on record my thanks for his work in championing the city deal for Cardiff. The Chancellor’s announcement last week was a massive statement of this Government’s confidence in Welsh business and our ambition for Wales. The £50 million is a down payment on the Cardiff city deal, and it is now time for local partners, Welsh businesses and the Welsh Government to crack on and conclude this transformational project.

Spending Review and Autumn Statement: Wales

Craig Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Westminster Hall

[Christina Rees]

No, we did not actually say that—if the hon. Gentleman checks his facts, he will see that we did not.

As I was saying, by the time this Conservative Government leave office in 2020, we will have seen an 11% cut in the Welsh budget. For all the Government’s talk of economic recovery, they have delivered a mountain of cuts since 2010, and their decisions will do further harm to the Welsh economy over the next five years.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

The hon. Lady talks about 11% cuts to the Welsh budget, but how does that compare to the regions and Departments of England? She has not once mentioned the commitments on the national living wage. Will she welcome that as well as banging on with the diatribe we have heard on universal credit?

[Christina Rees]

The hon. Gentleman may think it is a diatribe but I do not—these are the facts, and the so-called national living wage is yet more rhetoric from the Conservative party.

In Neath Port Talbot, the county borough in which my constituency sits, the local authority has seen a cumulative cut of £65 million to its budget since 2010, not including this coming financial year, with further planned cuts potentially of £37 million over the next three years—a total of £102 million being taken out of its budget in eight years. That has meant its workforce has shrunk by 20%, and it is important to point out that those cuts have come as a direct consequence of UK Government cuts to the Welsh budget. That has hit local services hard, leading to the unwanted but necessary reduction in support for community facilities, such as libraries and leisure centres.

The IFS has estimated that the tax and social security changes introduced in the last Parliament cost the average Welsh family £560 a year and took £700 million out of the Welsh economy each year. According to the IFS, the Chancellor’s plans mean that Welsh households will lose a further £500 each year between 2015 and 2019, meaning an annual loss of £660 million to our economy.

The Chancellor made much of implementing a Barnett floor to ensure that the funding gap between Wales and England does not widen further. I welcome that announcement. Six years on from the Holtham report, which recommended such a floor, I am pleased that the Government have finally pledged to deliver that mechanism, but the simple fact is that the floor makes hardly any difference when spending on Wales is falling. What is unacceptable, and completely at odds with the recommendations of the Holtham report, is that the Barnett floor is only being set at its present level of 115% of spending in England for the duration of this Parliament, with the amount being “reset” at the next spending review

“to take full account of the Welsh Government’s new powers and responsibilities.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Christina Rees]

Not at the moment—I have to make progress.

We are all well aware of the Chancellor’s habit of slashing funding from central Government then expecting local government and the devolved Administrations to make up the shortfall. That policy ensures that the poorest areas are hardest hit. If the Chancellor plans to use the devolution of income tax to Wales as a cover to cut Welsh funding further and to lower the Barnett floor, that will understandably be seen by the people of Wales as an unacceptable outcome.

The autumn statement was also largely silent on the vital infrastructure projects that Wales needs. Despite its strategic importance to the Swansea bay city region, of which my constituency is a part, there was not a single mention of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon in the Chancellor’s statement. Along with the 22% cuts that the Chancellor announced to the Department of Energy and Climate Change, perhaps that silence signals the Government’s lack of commitment to green energy.

In light of the landmark agreement reached in Paris last weekend, we know that projects such as the tidal lagoon are essential if this country is to meet its international obligations to combat climate change. Unfortunately, although important progress was made in Paris, I understand that the pledges will not achieve the aim of limiting global average temperature rise to below 2 °C, so further action is urgently needed.

[Craig Williams]

I thank the hon. Member for giving way again. Will she take the point that there is also the Cardiff lagoon to consider, and that investors around the world are being shaken by what she and other Labour Members are saying about tidal lagoons at a very critical point, when we are negotiating the strike price? They are endangering lagoons, and not just the Swansea lagoon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

I will happily write to the hon. Gentleman with further details. I can confirm now that the Welsh Government’s power to borrow up to £500 million for capital spending was initially due to start wholesale in 2018. The UK Government recognise that those powers are integral to the delivery of the M4 relief road, so early access to the borrowing powers was facilitated. The hon. Gentleman will know that that happened some years ago, but we are yet to see those borrowing powers being exercised to deliver that vital road project.

The hon. Gentleman will also know that during the recent rugby world cup, many demands and calls were made for that relief road. That is why, as I have pointed out, it was sad that that project was cancelled in 1997, following the previous Government’s decision to deliver that road.

[Craig Williams]

This is not just about the big projects. Our capital city is still without a ring road, and the eastern bay link has been on the cards for many a year. Even when it comes to smaller capital projects, the Welsh Government just do not get on and deliver.

[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend highlights another infrastructure project that has been called for. I can certainly remember that project from before the turn of the century. Businesses would welcome it. Bear in mind the resources available: the 16% increase in capital spend gives the Welsh Government the opportunity and the power. Instead of focusing on some of the issues raised today, this debate should focus on delivery by the Welsh Government, because all the resources have been put in their hands. The spending review saw more than just economic investment in skills and infrastructure.

Oral Answers to Questions

Craig Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend. Of course, investing in the Great Western line is just one part of the largest programme of investment in British railways since the days of Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

[Craig Williams (Cardiff North) (Con)]

May I associate myself with the comments about the explosion in Cardiff today and the sad situation at the Celsa steelworks, and thank the Secretary of State for making us aware of it?

The legal profession is a crucial part of the small business sector in my constituency. The Secretary of State will be aware that the First Minister now wants a separate Welsh legal jurisdiction, despite what he said 18 months ago. Will he assure me he is protecting our jurisdiction?

[Stephen Crabb]

I am aware of the calls from the First Minister and Plaid Cymru for Wales to have a separate legal jurisdiction. One of the sources of Cardiff’s growth in recent years has been investment in legal and professional services, and I fear that moves to create a separate jurisdiction for Wales will lead to a flight of talent from the Welsh legal profession.