Finance Bill

Ben Spencer Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

I must declare that I, like many parents in Surrey, have chosen independent education for my children. A freedom of information request earlier this week regarding empty school places in Surrey showed that in the ’25-26 academic year, there are zero spare places in year 9, zero in year 10 and zero in year 11. The Minister will know that in independent schools, many children in those years take international GCSEs and baccalaureates. What is his message to those children, who have no place and will have their exam training disrupted because of his spiteful policy?

[James Murray]

Local authorities and schools already have processes in place to support pupils who move between schools at any point in the academic year. Analysis carried out by the Department for Education under the previous Government suggests that each year, almost 60,000 secondary school moves take place not at normal transition points or over the school holidays. We fully expect the majority of moves to take place at natural transition points or in the school holidays, rather than within the school year.

I have been clear that ending these tax breaks for private schools has been a difficult decision, but it is necessary to secure additional funding that will help us to fulfil the commitments we made to improving education for all.

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[Dr Spencer]

I think we all, across the Committee, share the general principle of the hon. Member’s vision of a future, more prosperous UK. Surely it makes more sense, though, to encourage people to not use the state for provision, that way saving the state money that can be used for other things.

[Dr Sandher]

The difference in our approaches is that I do not believe in running down the state sector so people have to use the private sector to get a decent education. Half of schools do not have the specialist maths teachers they need and a third of students fail their maths GCSE. We do have a difference in our governing philosophies.

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Many others will speak about other material impacts of this proposal. I have four private schools in my constituency—Frewen college, Battle Abbey school, Vinehall school and Claremont school—and I could speak at length about the impact that this measure will have on parents. Whatever policy the Government have chosen, I wanted to ensure that I came to the Chamber and called out the particular manner in which this is being justified by Labour MPs and the Labour Government, which they did not have to do. To pit different school pupils against each other in the way that the Education Secretary and Labour MPs have done—there is absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever, and it is the worst possible way to have gone about this policy. The Labour party has many proud traditions and can point to many noble moments. This is absolutely not one of them, and I hope Labour Members will reflect on that.

[Dr Ben Spencer]

It is difficult not to take this vindictive policy of taxing education personally. That is not just because, like many parents in Surrey, we as a family have chosen independent education for our children, or because as a Conservative I support all our schools and I want all our children to have the best start in life; it is because lots of different data points show that the Runnymede and Weybridge constituency will be one of the most heavily punished areas as a result of this policy.

It is interesting to hear the Minister talk about the estimated numbers of children who will move out of the independent sector and into the state sector. I speak to the many independent schools in my constituency pretty much all year round. They have met me, and they tell me that they are desperately concerned about this policy. They have estimated that about 5% to 10% of children will need to move out. That is probably 500 to 1,000 children in my constituency, many of whom have already been disrupted by covid. Many of them are studying for their exams, have friendships groups that will be disrupted, and will potentially be moving to schools that will be unable to provide the same courses or exam specifications that they are currently receiving.

I hear from state schools that already face lots of pressure on places. As the Minister will have heard in my earlier intervention about admissions and the empty spaces that we have in years nine to 11, and the intake for the next academic year there is no space—we have lots of pressures. This policy will cause long-lasting damage to many children. I hope it will not, but in reality it will.

It is clear, given the numbers and the full-throated support on the Government Benches, that this policy is going ahead and we will not be able to stop it. But will the Government, at very least, support our new clause 8? If they are so proud of this policy, which they clearly are, and so happy to defend what they see as the limited impact on young people, why are they afraid of a proper analysis? I would ask them please to think again, but I would be at risk of misleading the House, because clearly they never thought in the first place.

[Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)]

The Liberal Democrats do not support imposing VAT on private school fees. We do not support treating independent schools differently from other independent education providers for VAT purposes, and that is why I wish to speak in favour of new clause 9, tabled by my constituency neighbour and hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson). I thank her for tabling the amendment, which would require the Government to produce an impact assessment of the effect of the VAT provisions in the Bill on pupils with special educational needs but who do not have an education, health and care plan. Of the 615,000 children in private schools in this country, almost 100,000 are being educated privately because they have special educational needs but do not have an EHCP.

The Lib Dems are glad that the legislation exempts from VAT on school fees those privately educated pupils who have an EHCP that requires the local authority to fund a private school place. That is a welcome step, but it does not protect those who do not have an EHCP from a steep rise in fees. The parents of many of those children will find that they cannot afford the increase, throwing the future of their children’s education into doubt.

Moreover, there will be an increase in demand for local authorities to issue EHCPs stating that the local authority must fund a private school place. Local authority resources for special educational needs and disabilities are already stretched to breaking point, and additional demand will be impossible to manage.

Farming and Inheritance Tax

Ben Spencer Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)]

I thank the farmers who visited me in the House for the good and respectful conversation that we had. I reflected their concerns to Ministers, and will continue to do so.

The Conservative Government trashed our economy. Mortgage rates went up, interest rates went up, prices went up, and taxes on working people, including farm workers, went up. The Conservative party smashed public services, with unprecedented and often unnecessary cuts to the services that our country relies on, including farmers—our roads potholed; GP surgeries under-resourced; a lack of mental health provision; schools struggling, sometimes crumbling; housing unaffordable, especially in rural areas. I could go on.

The Conservatives dashed the hopes of farmers when they were in government. They tried to sell out farmers with their trade deals, often gleeful about cheaper imports or hinting at support for chemically treated or hormone-injected meat. They gave farmers the chaos of delayed stop-start support schemes; cuts to the police, including rural policing; neglect of flooding in rural areas; and the incompetence of not even managing to spend £300 million that they had not managed to cut.

Now the Conservatives speak—perhaps exaggeratedly —about the impact of this Government’s plans. Where was their outrage when 12,000 farmers and agribusinesses were forced out of business from 2010 onwards, or when services were being cut by their Government? They are unabashed in their defence of the status quo on inheritance tax, which means that they are content to see the top 7% of the wealthiest claimants account for 40% of the total value of APR, costing the taxpayer £219 million. They are unashamed in their overall position on a Budget that, as a result of the tough decisions taken by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, has provided £5 billion to the farming budget over two years, the largest ever budget for sustainable food production, £60 million for farmers affected by last winter’s wet weather and £208 million to protect against future diseases.

Contrary to some recent campaigning, Labour is investing in British farming. Equally, the Government’s Budget is investing in our entire nation—in our economy and our public services—and we will build the growth and prosperity that we all rely on. We have made our decisions; now Opposition Members, especially Conservative Members, must justify why they continue to support the status quo, why they oppose our Budget with its funding for farming, and why they rail against our Budget’s investment in the economy. If they oppose this, they owe it to people outside this House to say which taxes they would increase, which public services they would cut and how much they would increase borrowing by.

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

When the hon. Member considers how much money will be raised by the family farm tax, how many hundredths of a percent is it against total annual Government spending?

[John Slinger]

The hon. Member will not be surprised to hear that I do not have that precise detail to hand.

To those who trashed our economy, who smashed our public services, who dashed the hopes of farmers over 14 years, who are unabashed in their defence of the status quo and who refuse to set out a credible alternative to our Budget, I say we will decline their advice today. I urge hon. Members across the House to do the same.

VAT: Independent Schools

Ben Spencer Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Murray]

I have given way quite a lot, so I am going to make a bit of progress.

Alongside the announcements about VAT, the Government announced in July that private schools in England with charitable status would lose their eligibility for business rates charitable relief from April 2025, subject to parliamentary passage of the legislation. Those changes were set out in a technical note that was published online alongside draft VAT legislation, which together formed a technical consultation. As part of that consultation, the Government—both at official and ministerial level—have engaged with a broad range of stakeholders, including the devolved Governments.

We have listened carefully to the points that people have raised with us. We recognise that while this policy will raise revenue to help support improvements in the state education sector, it may lead to increased costs for some parents and carers whose children are in the private education system. However, let me be clear: while private schools will now be required to charge VAT on the education services and vocational training they provide, we expect that most private schools will be able to absorb a significant portion of this new VAT charge and keep fee increases affordable for most parents. They will be able to make efficiencies and recover the VAT they incur on the things they buy. Those recovered costs can be used to offset increases for fee payers. We are already seeing that some schools have committed to absorbing the VAT liability entirely, while others are choosing to cap fee increases at 5% or 10% to keep fees as low as possible for parents.

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

I had a pop at getting the Minister to give way during the debate this morning, and I appreciate his doing so now. I love the irony of what he is saying, which is, “We need to do this to raise all this money, yet it isn’t actually going to raise all that much money because it can be reclaimed.” On the impact assessment, it is really interesting that one line in the consultation document that went out this summer says:

“The government understands that moving schools can be challenging.”

How many of his own constituents have contacted him to say they will have to move schools as a result of this policy, and how do we measure the damage that moving schools is going to cause for so many children in our constituencies?

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[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

Families and schools in my constituency are deeply concerned about this policy. They have contacted me to underline the pressure that it will put on them. Many have already started applying for state school places. Our independent schools reckon that about 5% to 10% of their students will move into the state sector. As we have heard, the measure will have a disproportionate impact on kids with SEND.

In my constituency, roughly 8,000 children are educated in the independent sector. That means a lot of pressure on local state schools. A lot of kids who have their special educational needs met by independent schools are now applying for EHCPs, which means extra pressure on assessments and provision. I support all my schools; I am aspirational for all the children in my constituency. This policy, if enacted—as I expect it will be—will cause great harm.

I would like the Minister to be able to quote back data, analyses and stats to me, and to say, “Ben, you’re wrong. Don’t worry your silly little head—it’s all going to be fine, and here is the data to back it up.” But he cannot; the data is not there because the Government have not done the analysis. This debate has, sadly, been driven by ideology. About one in five children are educated at independent schools in my patch. I must declare that I have chosen independent education for my children.

We will really suffer from this policy. The Under-Secretary of State for Education, the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Stephen Morgan), is a good man. I know that Members across the House, especially new Members who are finding their feet in this place, are starting to think about policies and decisions going forward. I say to them, as I said to the Minister: “If you cannot see the data and analysis for this policy, please ask why.” Please ask for it.

[Mr Richard Quigley (Isle of Wight West) (Lab)]

Listening to the Conservatives and the amount of fearmongering they do, one might think that a previous Government had totally trashed the state sector; I think that is quite obvious.

[Dr Spencer]

As I said, schools in both the independent and state sectors are concerned about the policy and the sudden movement of children, in the middle of the year, into the state sector, which will struggle to find them places. Those children may be studying for exams and have already experienced covid disruption, and the state schools that they move to might not have the right courses. I plead with the Minister to look at the data and do the analysis to see if the policy will make money or lose it, and to consider the impact on children.

I go back to the brutal, bitter words of the consultation document that went out this summer:

“The government understands that moving schools can be challenging.”

If I were a child going through my GCSEs or A-levels, and was forced to move into the state sector because of this policy—the analysis of which I cannot see, because the Government have not done it or will not publish it—and I read those words, I would say, “Please delay this policy. Think again. Look at it, and try to mitigate the impact on children with special educational needs, on armed forces families, and of disruption during the school year. Please, if you are not going to stop it, at least delay it and do the working out.”

Independent Schools: VAT and Business Rates Exemptions

Ben Spencer Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)]

I am amazed by the Conservative Opposition’s chutzpah when they talk about special educational needs. No one would have thought that they had been in power for the last 14 years and overseen the running down of the system so that it is almost impossible to get an education, health and care plan—these days, 98% of tribunals award plans against councils. We have a system without special educational needs co-ordinators. We have a special educational needs system that, thanks to the legacy of the Conservative Government—14 years of decline— is failing.

I speak as someone who was for 14 years the governor of two special schools near my constituency. I am proud of what the last Labour Government achieved: £1 billion into services for disabled children and young people and their families, and lots of new rights for those people. Under the Conservatives, we have gone backwards, and the situation in the special educational needs sector is dire. As a result, young people cannot get the EHCPs they need.

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

[Ben Coleman]

Let me make a little bit more progress. Cash-strapped councils are having to send their constituents’ children to private schools because state provision is not available. Parents from my constituency have written to me saying that their only reason for sending a child to a private school to meet their dyslexia, neurodivergence or other needs is not that they are ideologically in favour of doing so, but that they cannot do anything else. The provision is not there locally, and that is because of 14 years of Conservative decline. It is absolutely extraordinary.

[Dr Spencer]

Bearing in mind that around 15% of children in independent schools have special educational needs and only around 5% have an EHCP, given the move back into the state sector that this policy will cause and given the hon. Gentleman’s experience and personal concern about EHCPs, will he be voting against the policy?

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[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

It is a pleasure, Dame Caroline, to serve under your chairmanship and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Bradley Thomas) for securing this important debate. I am so pleased to speak in it.

I support all our schools and I am proud to have a range of independent schools in the Runnymede and Weybridge constituency. I declare an interest: my children, like one in five children in my constituency, go to an independent school.

I want to take the opportunity that we have today with a Treasury Minister responding to the debate, because Treasury Ministers are all over numbers and impacts. I am pleased to see that it would seem that, following the election, the Treasury has looked at Labour’s manifesto commitments and actually thought about them, to the extent that we are starting to get various leaks and stories that it will abandon them. I hope that the Treasury will do the same thing with this awful policy.

I know that a Treasury Minister will not make a decision without an impact assessment and I am sure that the Exchequer Secretary will express his concerns about the absence of an impact assessment for this policy. However, while he is considering what the impact of the change—I hope he comes to the Dispatch Box to tell us the numbers around it—let me share some information from my constituency, where about 7,500 to 8,000 children attend independent schools.

My schools tell me that about 5% to 10% of these pupils will move because of the imposition of a tax on education. That means there will be far more pressure on our local state school system and there will also be disruption for those children. It also means that the 10% to 15% of children with special educational needs who do not have EHCPs will start seeking them, which will mean more cost for the taxpayer and more transfers between schools, which would be a backwards policy. Most egregiously of all, the Government are going to do that halfway through the educational year, with no consideration for our constituents’ GCSE, A-level and baccalaureate exam results. Will the Minister think again and persuade the Secretary of State for Education to abandon this ridiculous policy?

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[James Murray]

I am going to make some progress. Those recovered costs can be used to offset the increases to feepayers. We are already seeing that some schools have committed to absorbing the VAT liability entirely, while others are choosing to cap fee increases at 5% or 10% to keep fees as low as possible for parents. Members have asked today why we will introduce this policy in January 2025. The reason for doing so is simple: we want to raise the funding we need as soon as possible to deliver our education priorities to state schools across the country.

[Dr Ben Spencer]

Will the Minister give way on that point?

[James Murray]

I do not have much time and I need to address the other points that hon. Members have made in this debate. Importantly, a January 2025 start date means that schools and parents will have had five months to prepare for the VAT change. HMRC is ready to ensure that schools are supported in delivering this change. To respond to the shadow Minister’s comment, HMRC will put in place a number of measures to ensure that all private schools can be registered ahead of 1 January 2025, including publishing bespoke guidance on gov.uk ahead of 30 October, updating registration systems and putting additional resource in place to help process applications.

Ahead of the policy being implemented, the Government have carefully the considered the impact the changes will have on pupils and their families across both the state and private sectors, as well their impact on state and private schools. The Government’s costings of this policy are currently being scrutinised by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility. The Chancellor will confirm our approach to the measures at Budget, where we will set out our assessment of the expected impacts of the change in the normal way.

We recognise, as some hon. Members have raised, the changes may lead to some pupils moving into the state education sector. However, we believe that the number of pupils who may switch schools as a result of the changes will represent a very small proportion of overall pupil numbers in the state sector and such switches will take place over several years. We are confident that the state sector will be able to accommodate any additional pupils.

Winter Fuel Payment

Ben Spencer Excerpts

Tuesday 10th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Peter Swallow]

Three million food parcels were distributed last year. That is the legacy of the Conservative Government. And the triple lock that the Conservatives purport to defend? They broke it in 2022.

I also support the extension of the household support fund to help the families most in need this winter, as well as the Government’s commitment to introducing tougher regulation to the energy market, which has let customers down for too long. I am working hard with Bracknell Forest council to ensure that pensioners in the Bracknell constituency who are in need but not claiming the support to which they are entitled are identified and encouraged to get help. I urge any pensioner who is concerned about their finances to go to Age UK’s benefits calculator to see what support they may be entitled to.

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

What did the hon. Gentleman say to pensioners during the election campaign?

[Peter Swallow]

I said that the Labour party would restore the broken economy inherited from the Conservative party.

In the long term, there is only one permanent solution to ending fuel poverty: we must end our dependence on volatile foreign energy markets and deliver lasting energy security. The Conservative party failed to do that in Government, leaving energy bills higher for every household, including those most in need. That is why this Government’s plan to create GB Energy, a new national energy company, is vital. It will bring energy supply back into the hands of the British public and help to get prices back under control. That is the long-term solution to fuel poverty: home-grown, British-controlled power.