Child Poverty

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 8th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

The noble Baroness is quite right in this regard. Health is closely tied to achievement, and we work very closely with colleagues across government to ensure that children get all the support they need. In particular, we worked closely with the Department of Health on the passage of the Children and Families Act to ensure that the reforms to special needs and disability, impacting on one-fifth of children, would ensure joined-up provision. Our new entitlement to nutritious free school meals for all infant pupils is another example of this Government working together to support children’s health and achievement. As the noble Baroness will know, there is a lot happening in mental health as well.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, hungry children make poor learners. In view of today’s all-party parliamentary inquiry into food hunger in the UK, will the Government now accept that chronic hunger and food poverty blight this country? Will they take action, including in their policy on benefit sanctions, which the inquiry found to be an important contributory factor to the increased need for food banks?

[Lord Nash]

We welcome the APPG report on this matter; it raises some interesting points and recognises that it is a complex issue. Of course, the level of take-up of food banks is a relatively new phenomenon. It went up 10 times under the previous Government. The OECD tells us that the use of food banks in this country is in fact well below the international averages. The key way of reducing the dependence on food banks is through education so that people are more likely to be in work and are able to prioritise their funding better, making work pay through our reforms to the benefit system.

Education: Citizenship Studies

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I absolutely agree with the noble Lord that citizenship is important and I know that he is a passionate supporter of it. Many schools have ceremonies for awards and the new citizenship programme of study requires active participation. I would certainly encourage schools to consider adopting the noble Lord’s idea if they do not already reward good citizenship. Certainly it will help them demonstrate that they are promoting British values. However, it is not this Government’s style to mandate such a thing. In addition, the Government’s National Citizen Service for 16 and 17 year-olds gives young people a chance to develop skills such as volunteering and social action projects. I was delighted to see that the IPPR report published at the weekend was so supportive of the National Citizen Service and that we seem to have achieved cross-party support for it.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that a good way of consolidating citizenship education would be to extend to young people at the age of 16 the right to vote so that they can apply at the ballot box what they have learnt and, it is to be hoped, get into the habit of voting?

[Lord Nash]

I do not agree with the noble Baroness on that.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ramsbotham (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as vice-chairman of the Institute for Food, Brain and Behaviour. I entirely accept what the Minister said about the value of nutrition. For two or three years we have conducted work in a secondary school in Dagenham. That work is about to be published and shows the value of correct nutrition on not just the educational awareness of children but also on their behaviour. We would be very happy to share this research with the Minister and her officials.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the amendment and the Minister has underlined the case for it. I have two questions. What will be done to monitor the effects of the new provisions with a view to considering whether to extend them to other age groups, as the proposed new clause would allow, and what criteria will be used in considering whether to extend them? Will the Minister explain what the implications will be for the pupil premium, because eligibility for the funding of it is tied to free school meal eligibility, and if free school meal eligibility is being extended in this way does this mean that the pupil premium will also be extended?

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

My Lords, I welcome the amendment and welcome the coalition, belatedly, to the table of the free school meals cause.

As I told the Minister the other day, I am an inaugural member of the School Food Trust, set up by Labour after Jamie Oliver’s turkey Twizzler scandal. Therefore, I do not need to be persuaded of the importance of this announcement. When I was thinking how I might respond to this debate, I was initially tempted to run back through the history of this initiative, not least the Government’s early decision to cut the funding of the School Food Trust and the associated rollout of the nutritional standards. However, in the circumstances I felt that this was rather churlish. However the transformation of policy came about, it is absolutely the right thing to do. I agree with the Minister that it will bring health, educational and social benefits to this group of children. It will, I hope, teach them good eating habits which will stay with them and encourage them to continue eating nutritional school lunches in later years. It will also provide considerable savings to hard-pressed families who would otherwise have to pay for these meals.

The challenge now is to make sure that the policy is implemented successfully for September, and I very much hope that the Children’s Food Trust is able to play a major role in assisting that rollout. There will obviously be different challenges for different schools to adapt their kitchens and dining spaces to meet the new demand. I hope that schools, and particularly head teachers, embrace this challenge positively and do not try to cut corners. The school lunch has the capacity to be at the heart of the school’s community and brings a wealth of other benefits as well. I very much hope that in a short period the policy will justify itself. I am pleased that the amendment allows scope for extending the age group via secondary regulation in due course, and I am pleased to support the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I rise partly to support my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, but primarily to use the opportunity to thank the Minister for listening to what was said in Grand Committee and by the Joint Committee on Human Rights—up to a point. With regard to Amendment 59C, I fear that we are still talking past each other. The Joint Committee on Human Rights amendment, which I moved in Grand Committee, was not intended to provide an exhaustive definition of children’s rights, as the noble Lord suggested in his letter to my noble friends Lady Hughes and Lady Jones on 22 January. The purpose was to include the UNCRC rights explicitly in the statutory definition of children’s rights for the purposes of defining the Children’s Commissioner’s primary functions. But I do not wish to be churlish, and therefore I welcome this unexpected concession.

I also strongly welcome the publication before Report of the updated framework agreement between the Office of the Children’s Commissioner and the department, and even more because it incorporates the changes recommended by the JCHR and includes a clear statement of the commissioner’s independence. I welcome, too, the amendments designed to strengthen children’s participation.

I hope that the Minister will be able to go one step further, as asked for by my noble friend and the noble Lord, and strengthen the powers and independence of the Office of the Children’s Commissioner just that little bit more.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote]

My Lords, I support Amendment 59A and I also strongly support Amendments 59B and 59F. I address this from the viewpoint of the children themselves. Children and young people care about the independence of the Children’s Commissioner and support the proposal to prevent any interference by government as set out in Amendment 59A.

In a briefing put together by young people in partnership with Save the Children, they say quite rightly that the commissioner is for them and that it is important that the Government listen to their views on the issue of independence. The young people understand the importance of the commissioner being free to do his job properly. In particular, they are worried about future Governments interfering in the commissioner’s work. Mohamed, aged 16, said:

“If the Commissioner’s full independence is not clearly set in stone then a new Government would be able to change its mind … If it’s not [written down in law] it could change in a few years-time. Even if the Children’s Commissioner has the freedom now to do what they think is right, there’s no guarantee it wouldn’t change”.

So young people are concerned that without this amendment, children may think that the commissioner is not a proper champion of their views and rights, and they may not put their trust in the commissioner.

Young people say that without a fully independent champion, children could grow up to feel disengaged from their community and local and national politics. Najib, aged 12, said:

“If the children’s commissioner isn’t completely independent then young people will feel like they don’t have a voice. When they grow up they may not have the confidence to speak out and join in as they’ve felt that no one has listened to them when they were growing up”.

I hope very much that the Minister will consider young people’s views on this issue and I very much support the proposal brought forward on this by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

63AZC: After Clause 113, insert the following new Clause—
“Review of care leave
The Secretary of State must, within the scheduled review of parental leave, make arrangements—(a) to conduct research into the current labour market outcomes of carers, and(b) assess the need for further types of leave arrangements for employees in the United Kingdom, in addition to those that currently exist, with a view to helping families combine care for a disabled child or adult with work, and(c) for a report on the outcome to be produced and published.”

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 63AZC, I return to this question because, when we debated it in Grand Committee, it was rather lost in the important debate on kinship care. The amendment does not ask for very much. It does not require the Government to introduce leave for workers with caring responsibilities for a disabled, ill or frail loved one; it simply calls for a review of the need for such arrangements. As Carers UK argues in a recent report making the case for carers’ leave:

“The evidence base for supporting working carers is growing, and it is compelling”.

More than 3 million people combine working with unpaid care for a loved one and the numbers are predicted to grow as the population ages. The danger is that, without the safety valve of a right to a few days’ leave a year, carers will either reduce their hours or give up paid work altogether. A Carers UK survey found that two in five carers who had already done so were around £10,000 to £20,000 a year worse off. The public expenditure cost of carers giving up paid work is estimated at £1.3 billion a year. A strong business case has also been made. As the task and finish group set up by Employers for Carers and the Department of Health states in its final report, that

“the issue of supporting carers to remain in work is not only a problem, but also an economic opportunity. Supporting carers to remain in work can bring considerable benefits to carers themselves, employers and the wider economy”.

In Grand Committee, the Minister referred to the existing right to request flexible working and to time off for emergencies. But these existing provisions, helpful as they are, do not cover the kind of situation that this amendment is designed to address. This is not about emergencies as such but for more everyday situations, such as taking someone to a medical appointment or looking after them on discharge from hospital or during chemotherapy. The leave also needs to be paid, if it is to be of real help. At present, all too often carers use up annual leave, which they probably need more than most. A combination of the stresses created by combining care and paid work and no holiday leave could be one burden too many.

Cross-national evidence shows that care leave in various forms is becoming increasingly common elsewhere. I will spare noble Lords the examples, given the lateness of the hour, but will simply say that we are in danger of becoming a laggard if we refuse even to start investigating the case for such leave.

In Grand Committee, I quoted from a moving statement made by Mr Christopher Jeffery, whose wife was told she was shirking when she took agreed time off to collect him from hospital. She ended up having a breakdown because of the total lack of support she received and Mr Jeffery told the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Carers that it made him feel like a burden to her. I applaud Mr Jeffery’s determination to campaign on behalf of carers generally to ensure they have a right to take time off and not be treated in the way that his wife was.

I also said that I believe we are at the beginning of the road of a campaign whose time has come. Common sense, the business case, social justice and plain compassion and human decency are all on its side. Moreover, so is public opinion. Nine out of 10 respondents to a Carers UK/YouGov survey last year supported a right to a short period of time off work to care.

I hope that the Minister will be able to take this modest amendment away and tidy it up in order to bring it back as a government amendment at Third Reading, or even simply give a commitment on the record to instigate such a review without delay. I say without delay because the amendment links the review with the one that we have already been promised into parental leave, but there is no reason why it should wait until that review is undertaken. The Minister has already helpfully committed the Government to a more immediate study of the labour market attachment of kinship and friendship carers of children. I am simply asking for a parallel study of carers’ labour market attachment and of the options available to support it through some form of leave provision.

For all the reasons that I have given, there is a degree of urgency about this. The Government have an opportunity here to take the credit for having opened the door to the implementation of carers’ leave. This Bill, together with the Care Bill, already marks an important step forward for carers’ rights. Let us now build on that and make it a real turning point. I beg to move.

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[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I appreciated the interesting and moving speeches by the noble Baronesses, Lady Lister and Lady Pitkeathley, and the brief intervention by my noble friend Lady Tyler focusing on the challenges that parents of disabled children and carers of disabled adults face in balancing their care responsibilities with their working lives.

Being a carer can have a significant impact on an individual’s life. The Government recognise that caring for an individual with a disability can be both physically and emotionally draining. Flexible and supportive working arrangements can make a significant difference to a carer’s life by ensuring that work does not add to the carer’s stress levels. This is why it is important that carers are able to adjust the way they work to allow them to stay in work, because work can be important for a carer’s well-being and income and for maintaining social contacts. As a nation, we cannot afford to lose the talent and skills of carers from the workplace. The Government recognise that caring for disabled people can be a sudden change for an individual. It may be challenging and take a great deal of commitment from an individual to deliver the care and support that is needed.

I reassure noble Lords that my department regularly collects and reviews data on carers to ensure that we are providing the right framework to allow them to participate and thrive in the labour market. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills conducts the workplace employment relations survey and the work-life balance series of surveys which look at the effectiveness of labour market participation policies, such as the right to request flexible working, in supporting carers. The Office for National Statistics also uses the census to analyse carers’ labour market experiences.

These surveys and the evidence they provide informed the recent report on carers from the cross-government task and finish group on carers. This report highlighted the importance of flexible working and recommended that government should continue to promote the benefits of flexible working to employers. All the recommendations of this report have been accepted and are currently being implemented. An additional duty on government to conduct this research and review the provisions for carers is unnecessary because this work is already under way and government regularly collects and reviews this information.

The Government’s approach is to create a fair, flexible and efficient labour market which supports and encourages participation from all. The strategy for carers is to ensure that we create the right framework to allow them to balance their work and caring responsibilities. Clause 113 requires the Government to review the effectiveness of the right to request flexible working against the policy objectives. Supporting carers to remain in work is a key objective of the policy, and I can confirm that this review will include assessing the effectiveness of the right to request flexible working in supporting carers to participate in the labour market.

I understand the noble Baronesses’ intentions behind this amendment, and I hope I have reassured them that the Government are acting to support carers of disabled children and adults to remain in work and are continually reviewing this support to ensure that it meets the needs of carers.

Just before I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment, I wish to change the tone slightly by stating that we have almost reached the end of Report, and on behalf of my noble friend Lord Nash, I will take this opportunity to thank everyone who has spoken today and during earlier sessions on Report. We have had many thoughtful, well informed and constructive debates on a very broad range of issues, and I have welcomed the thorough approach that noble Lords have taken to scrutinising each part of this wide-ranging Bill. I hope that we can address the very few outstanding issues. I also thank the Bill team and all the officials who have supported me, my noble friend Lord Nash and colleagues across different departments for their work.

In the mean time, I ask the noble Baroness, Lady Lister of Burtersett, to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend and to the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, for speaking in support of this amendment at this extremely late hour. I am grateful to the Minister. I thought he made a rather compelling case for my amendment when he spoke about the importance of supporting carers. He talked about enabling them to participate and thrive, but the trouble is that the present situation does not enable them to participate and thrive. I was ultimately very disappointed by the Minister’s response because it is not about simply collecting statistics, but about having a formal, structured review of the case that other countries have now accepted. Therefore I will, of course, withdraw the amendment, but I suspect that it will not be the last amendment which tries to make this case; we will table such an amendment to any legislation that offers the opportunity to do so. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 63AZC withdrawn.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak also to Amendments 57ZB and 57ZC.

The Care Bill currently being debated in another place is making major changes to adult social care law. We have already put those changes through this House. It brings forward important and welcome new rights for adults caring for other adults. This Bill already strengthens the rights of young carers. These new rights will make it easier for other carers to have the impact of caring on them in their care assessment and to receive support services. I commend the Government most heartily and sincerely for the progress that we have made on this issue. However, as I said when it was discussed in Committee, these changes leave parent carers of disabled children as the only group of carers who will be left with the lesser rights to assessment and support provided in old legislation that will be largely superseded by the new Bills.

The purpose of these amendments is to bring the rights of parents of disabled children into line with the rights of other carers and ensure that they are consolidated into primary legislation where they can be better understood and used. Amendments 57ZA and 57ZB update the existing law that gives parents of disabled children under 18 the right to have a carer’s assessment that looks at the impact of caring on them—the parent carers. It updates and aligns these rights with the changes being brought forward in the Care Bill for adult carers of adults, and in this Bill for young carers. Amendment 57ZC replicates the new duty to promote well-being that is being introduced through the Care Bill in relation to adult carers of adults, and applies this same duty to parents caring for disabled children.

As a result of the Government’s changes, parents of disabled children will be the only group of carers with lesser rights to assessment and support, as the rights of other adult carers and young carers are consolidated and strengthened. Their rights will be left in rump legislation as the rest of the Carers Acts are repealed. These amendments are supported by the Law Commission and the Joint Committee on Human Rights.

I know that the aim of the Government’s legislative reform is to produce a clearer, consolidated social care system that is easier for professionals and individuals to use. However, I must point out that this aim will not be realised without consolidation and enhancement of parent carer rights. Without this, frontline professionals will have to navigate complex legislation in order to assess and provide support to those caring for children. There is little or no guidance in place to support social workers to use the existing rights for carers to receive assessments, currently sitting in three different Acts, each taken through Parliament by Back-Benchers with cross-party support. I was one of those Back-Benchers on a couple of occasions.

A lack of guidance and understanding by children’s social services already means that parents of disabled children find it hard to have their needs as carers recognised. Parent carers are being passed between adult and children’s services and are falling through the cracks. I was most grateful to the Minister for agreeing to meet last week with the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, myself and several parent carers and representatives of Carers UK. He was able to hear at first hand about—and understand—their current difficulties and duties. These and other parent carers whom I have met simply do not understand why they are not subject to the same rights as others. They told the Minister this in no uncertain terms. I very much hope that he will either agree to these amendments or agree to bring something back at Third Reading.

I turn briefly to the need for a well-being duty for parent carers. The Care Bill introduces a new statutory principle that embeds the promotion of well-being as the driving force underpinning the provision of care and support. This new principle is widely welcomed. I cannot overemphasise how strongly this has been welcomed and how important it is. The well-being duty in the Care Bill does not, however, apply to parent carers. Unless we put it in here, it will not apply to them at all. They face different challenges to other parents, but they have often struggled to establish rights as individuals on a par with other carers, and they are at particular risk of having their own rights as individuals overlooked. Too often they are seen only as parents, and their needs as carers are not identified or supported.

At this late hour I will not give many of the examples that I planned to give. However, I will end with the words of a particular parent carer, who said that a carer’s assessment,

“would help me loads, I feel very alone with massive pressure on my shoulders, I desperately need a key worker for my son, and a lot more time for me before I crack up … I lost my job because I was taking too much time away from work … caring has caused me nothing but sadness and loss of all dignity”.

I hope that we will be able to have a positive response from the Minister, and I beg to move.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I am pleased to support these amendments, to which I added my name. My noble friend mentioned that the Joint Committee on Human Rights has supported her amendment, and as a member of that committee I wanted to say a bit about what it said in its report on the Care Bill, which was published this week.

The committee expressed its dissatisfaction with the Government’s response to it on this issue, and recommended that the Government bring forward an amendment, either to this Bill or to the Care Bill, to give parent carers of disabled children an equivalent right to a needs assessment for support. The committee acknowledged the existing provisions, but stated that,

“they do not equate to a clear and single duty in law which requires a local authority to carry out a needs assessment of parent carers of disabled children and to meet the eligible needs of such parent carers”.

My noble friend gave an example of the effect this can have on parent carers, who do such a hard job already. Their job is made that much harder by the lack of clarity about the law and what they are entitled to.

The Joint Committee on Human Rights quoted from what the Minister said in Grand Committee:

“We are clear that any change to the Children Act 1989 to assess the needs of parent carers separately would change fundamentally the principles of the Act and risk the needs of the children becoming second to those of their parent. Recent serious case reviews for Daniel Pelka and Keanu Williams have shown starkly what can happen when the needs of parents are put ahead of those of the child. Our approach to legislation and statutory guidance is that the needs of the individual child are paramount”.—[Official Report, 20/11/13; col. GC 479.]

The committee said:

“While we are clear that the best interests of the child are a primary consideration in all actions concerning children, we do not consider the references to cases of child abuse and neglect to be appropriate in the context of discussing the rights of parent carers of disabled children to a needs assessment for support”.

I have to say that I was shocked when the Minister said that in Grand Committee. The JCHR went on to say:

“Children’s rights are not in conflict with parents’ rights in this regard. Indeed, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child recognises that a child is not isolated from his or her family”.

Speaking about the UN convention, a UNICEF global study of independent human rights institutions for children spelled this out:

“An important aspect of the convention is that it does not consider the child as an isolated individual. Instead, it situates the child as a member of a family and community, recognizing his or her need for support to develop and thrive. Action to realize the rights of children can thus be envisaged as taking place within and through a triangular set of relations involving the state, parents (and/or guardians) and child”.

These amendments embody the spirit of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, and I very much hope that the Minister will be able either to accept them or to bring forward alternative amendments on Third Reading.

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield]

My Lords, the hour is late, so I will speak briefly in support of these amendments. I pay tribute to the tireless work of the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley.

As has been said, through other parts of the Bill, the new right to assessment and support that have been introduced for young carers is wonderful. It was also my privilege to look at the detailed scrutiny of the Care Bill. Again, the new right to assessment and support for adult carers is a landmark piece of legislation of which we can all be proud. As has been set out, the one group that falls between the stools are parent carers—generally parents who look after disabled children.

I, too, had the privilege last week of attending the meeting with the Minister. It was a very poignant meeting at which we heard three parent carers explain what life was like for them. One, I particularly remember, was looking after not one but three disabled children. She explained how she simply never had a minute for herself. She said that she was grateful for the support that she got in respite care for her children, but that she would be lucky to have the time to pop into the supermarket on the way home before having to go and collect the children or do something for one of her other children.

My final point concerns why I think that well-being is so important. What is often forgotten is the impact on the personal and family relationships of parents who look after disabled children. I felt that this was underlined very well in an excellent report in 2011 from Contact a Family. This showed the mental health problems that parent carers were having, including anxiety, depression and breakdown. They had to see their GP because they felt that their well-being was so poor, and they often had medication or had to see a counsellor. There was also an impact on their marriage, often with a breakdown in the relationship.

For all those reasons—I would love to say more but there simply is not time—I strongly hope that the Minister will be able to say something sympathetic in response to these amendments.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wilkins (Lab)]

My Lords, I speak in strong support of the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Low, which is set out so comprehensively and to which I added my name. If accepted, it will reassure those of us who are concerned that elements of Part 3 of the Bill could weaken the right of disabled children and young people with SEN to be included in mainstream education. Sadly, the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton, is not able to be in her place today because, like many people, she has a bad cold. But many noble Lords will have heard her give eloquent testimony of the blight that her segregated education laid on her life. It was not necessary, and it is something that has never left her.

It would be welcome if the amendment were further strengthened by extending the duty to post-16 providers, to ensure consistency for disabled learners across the educational experience. Local authorities such as Nottingham, Calderdale and Newham have used such duties to good effect. They have provided specialist support services and training for mainstream schools so that those schools are confident in implementing inclusive educational practice. This has increased the number of disabled children and young people with a wide range of impairments and health conditions being included in mainstream education. But while some local authorities have been proactive in promoting inclusive education at a strategic level, a lot of work still needs to be done to support the development of inclusive education across the country, especially when half of our disabled children and young people with SEN are still being placed in segregated educational provision.

I am very concerned that without an explicit duty, local authorities will become complacent—and, more worryingly, will revert to the practice of investing increasingly limited resources in existing segregated, rather than inclusive, educational provision. For instance, Kent County Council is already investing heavily in special school provision. Nigel Utton, a Kent County Council primary school head teacher and the chair of Heading for Inclusion, is quoted as saying:

“About half the children with statements in Kent are in special schools, with so much resource being targeted at special provision (not to mention the huge transport costs incurred) mainstream schools are left with a very small proportion of the special needs budget. The pressure on mainstream schools to achieve high academic standards, combined with budgetary pressures, is forcing many to not accept children with SEND statements or to persuade parents to leave”.

Such investment in special schools is not compatible with the Government’s Article 24 obligations. One such obligation is to develop and promote inclusive education across the country by building the capacity of mainstream schools to support the inclusion of disabled learners. The situation will only worsen if the Bill, and the draft SEN code of practice, do not include the explicit duty to promote inclusive education practice. I urge noble Lords to support the amendment.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I am glad to be able to follow my noble friend, who has made a powerful case. As a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, I simply want to put on record my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Low, for taking the committee’s recommendation forward and for making the case for it so cogently. The committee saw this as a matter of principle. It is a principle that the Government do not disagree with, and I am at a loss as to why they have been so resistant to accepting that it should be in the legislation. I hope that the Minister will think again.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the amendments, because inclusion, which we all want to promote, still has to be fought for. That is why it ought to be in the Bill. I was on the boards of several special schools where some children were, I have to say, “parked”. On the other hand, I noticed the beneficial effects of children with disabilities being accommodated in mainstream schools—not only on the child in question but on the other children, who then have the opportunity to learn how to behave towards them, which they take. Children do not always bully other children with disabilities; in a good mainstream school they will have an incentive not to. The duty should be explicit, so it ought to be in the Bill.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 9th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

My Lords, some interesting points have been made by the previous speakers, but one of the things none of us has mentioned so far is the valuable and important role of social workers in this exercise of matching children with appropriate, loving parents.

I worry that by being as prescriptive as putting something like this on the face of the Bill or making guidance hugely prescriptive, we are limiting the opportunities of social workers to be flexible and professional about their assessment. If we need to do anything, perhaps it is strengthening that kind of perception and understanding within social worker training. I have confidence that, if the Government choose to remove this, it does not mean that social workers will not look at each child’s background very fully; and not just the backgrounds of children who are easily identified as from a minority. The assumption that all Caucasian children, for instance, have no difference in their needs is quite ridiculous.

If we are prescriptive about applying considerations to do with parental connections only to the lives of children from ethnic minorities, we are not giving social workers the right to make the proper professional judgments. For example, if a Quaker family adopts a child from a Catholic background, it is just as important for them as it is for people of mixed ethnicity. I am concerned that if we are prescriptive and put something on the face of the Bill and are also prescriptive in the statutory guidance, we may make the situation worse in some cases.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, in Committee I spoke in support of Amendment 2. I quoted the Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I am a member, in its legislative scrutiny report. This led to some debate about the implications of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child for this clause.

I want to read from the letter that the chair of the Joint Committee on Human Rights wrote to the Minister following our debate in Committee. He expresses disappointment at the Government’s refusal to accept the amendment. He writes: “In your response”—to the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss—

“you said that ‘the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child does not require children to be placed with someone who shares exactly the same ethnicity but someone who respects it.’ That is correct, but what the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child does expressly require, in Article 20(3), is that ‘when considering solutions, due regard shall be paid … to the child’s ethnic, religious, cultural and linguistic background’. Removing the statutory provision which gives effect to that obligation, without retaining those considerations in the welfare checklist, is incompatible with that provision of the Convention.

Unless the Government accepts the amendment when it is brought back at Report stage, it seems to us to be inevitable that this aspect of the Bill will be the subject of criticism by the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child. The Government is currently finalising its Report to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, for submission in January 2014. My Committee will ensure that the issue is brought to the attention of the Committee when it examines the UK’s Report”.

Would it not make sense to listen to experts such as the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and the NSPCC? It has said that the amendment would,

“ensure that reference to ethnicity in the Adoption and Children Act is better balanced rather than it being given prominence in its current standalone form, and that it is appropriately recognised given its significance. We welcome the updating of statutory guidance … and are keen to work with DfE to input into this. However, while the detail of the guidance is certainly important it will only go so far in ensuring this is appropriately taken into account and could send a contradictory message as to its importance having removed this from primary legislation”.

That is one of the concerns—that having expressly taken this out of the legislation, and if nothing is put back, it will send out a message that whatever the statutory guidance says, this is not important. But it is important, and I really hope the Minister will think again. I know that his reading of the UN convention is different, but the Joint Committee on Human Rights is expressly given the duty to advise Parliament on the human rights implications of legislation. I hope the Minister will take seriously this rather strong advice given by the Joint Committee.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, I was not planning to speak in this debate at all but I feel strongly that we need to support my noble and learned friend Lady Butler-Sloss. I want to mention only one case—that of a really superb set of parents who adopted two children across the racial barrier; that is, two African children. You could not find better parents. They were both involved in the mental health services and were devoted to these two girls. It seemed that the thing was perfect. But both those girls committed suicide in their late teens. If we are to neglect the advice of the UN convention, we need to beware. It is no accident that these issues are emphasised so clearly, and no accident that our extremely experienced noble and learned friend, Lady Butler-Sloss, has tabled this amendment. We should support it.

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[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I was pleased and proud to add my name to this amendment. I do so having been pleased to support the noble Lord, Lord McColl, and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, in their past attempts to deal with this gap in the way that we deal with young people who may have been trafficked. Both the noble Lord and the noble and learned Baroness have done an immense amount to improve the lives of young people who have been trafficked and changes are being made. However, as both have said today, there is still this gap.

If we think of our own children, not having been trafficked or been the victims of slavery, but put into a similar situation in a foreign country, unable to understand the language and for whatever reason having to deal with a multiplicity of different agencies, they would not cope. Today we are talking about children who are not just vulnerable, but probably traumatised, who may have suffered degradation in some way, yet who are still supposed to deal with a multiplicity of agencies. It is deeply unfair to expect them to do so.

This amendment would ensure that these children had one person—a constant in an ever-changing world—who they could trust and to whom they could turn whenever they felt it necessary. On the day when we have been paying tribute to Nelson Mandela, a man who was full of compassion, this is a matter of compassion and of fulfilling our obligation to these children who have suffered. Yes, as the noble and learned Baroness pointed out, these are foreign children, but that fact does not matter. These are young human beings who, for whatever reason, are now in this country and we have an obligation to ensure that they are properly cared for. One of the means of doing that is to ensure that they have a person there who can be their advocate and their support.

As noble Lords have said, there are agencies, people in the voluntary and charitable sectors, who are willing and able to provide this service, and, as the noble and learned Baroness said, it is not a question of another bureaucratic tier. This is something that does not exist and needs to exist. Not only will it not cost a lot of money, in the end it could actually save money, because it means that these children will not fall through all the gaps and into crisis, as they might have done. This is a means of saving money. We have an obligation to do our best for these children and I am pleased and proud to support this amendment.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord McColl, referred to the Joint Committee on Human Rights. In Grand Committee I picked up that reference and spoke briefly about what the Joint Committee had said about the Scottish experience of guardianship, which went broader but included trafficked children. In response, the Minister expressed a degree of scepticism, perhaps, about that experience. Once again, the chair of the Joint Committee on Human Rights has followed up our debates with a letter to the noble Baroness. I shall read part of that letter. It stated:

“I would like to draw your attention to the recommendation made by my Committee in its First Report of this Session, on the Human Rights of unaccompanied migrant children and young people in the UK, (HL: Paper 9 and HC 196), which dealt with guardianship and on which the Committee had taken evidence. This states (at paragraph 175):

‘We welcome the findings from the Scottish Guardianship Service, which demonstrate the value that a guardian can add for unaccompanied asylum seeking and trafficked children. We recommend that the Government commission pilots in England and Wales that builds upon and adapts the model of guardianship trialled in Scotland. The guardian should provide support in relation to the asylum and immigration process, support services and future planning, help children develop wider social networks, and ensure that children's views are heard in all proceedings that affect them. The Government should evaluate the case for establishing a wider guardianship scheme throughout England and Wales once those pilot schemes are complete’”.

The letter from the chair to the Minister continues:

“In your contribution to the debate in the Lords you suggested that the Scottish scheme had had mixed results, that it had not 'cracked' the problems that it was intended to address, and that it would add another layer of complexity”—

other noble Lords have talked about this—

“ to how these things are currently handled.

The results of the guardianship scheme, however, were largely positive, as was evidenced fully by the independent report undertaken by Professors Heaven Crawley and Ravi Kohli (who both advised my Committee during its inquiry into unaccompanied migrant children). These positive results led the Scottish Government to endorse the Guardianship Service, and support it with funding for a further three years at £200,000 per year”.

I would add here that Aileen Campbell, the Minister for Children and Young People in the Scottish Government, has said:

“The Scottish Guardianship Service gives asylum seeking children a voice and makes sure every young person involved understands and participates in decisions that affect them”.

The letter goes on:

“There is of course no question that the issues surrounding guardianship are complex and that it took time for the Service in Scotland to bed down and achieve some enduring coherence for vulnerable children in difficult circumstances. However, the independent report, in large part, is very clear that Guardianship was a safeguard for unaccompanied migrant children, and its design and implementation were exemplary”.

The report throws some light on this question of an additional layer of complexity. It found:

“The young people saw Guardians as helping them to understand what others did, especially when there were ‘too many people’ in their lives. This is an important perception by the young people of a key element of the Service—namely that the Service played a key role not because there were too few professionals in their lives, but because sometimes there were too many. The noise generated by these constant engagements and expectations, where young people were required to repeat some form of their story to an endless queue of professionals”—

a point that the noble Lord, Lord McColl, made—

“needed to be reduced to a sound that young people could hear, sometimes in sequence, and sometimes in a harmonised way. The Guardians did this”

in a number of ways. The letter concludes:

“My Committee believes that the Government should look at this again”.

I really hope that the Government will look at this again. There have been some very powerful speeches in support of the amendment and I very much hope that noble Lords will not be fobbed off again.

[The Lord Bishop of Truro]

My Lords, I support the amendment and declare an interest as chairman of the Children’s Society. The noble Lord, Lord McColl, has already mentioned the report, Still at Risk, published jointly by the Children’s Society and the Refugee Council.

The amendment raises an important matter. Doubts over a child’s age, their lack of documentation or uncertainty about their immigration status impede a child’s ability to access effective support to meet their welfare needs. For example, 10 of the 17 young people mentioned in the study had their ages disputed. Some had undergone multiple age assessments before it was agreed by the authorities that they were, in fact, children. Disputing a child’s age has serious safeguarding implications for them and can put them at serious risk. In the Still at Risk report, it was found that failure to recognise that they were children or victims of trafficking resulted in three of the young people who were interviewed being sent to adult prison, and two to an immigration removal centre. Several of the young people in the study did no know which country they were in because of the tight control exerted over them by their exploiters. The guidance on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child states:

“Agencies or individuals whose interests could potentially be in conflict with those of the child’s should not be eligible for guardianship”.

The Children’s Society and others believe that local authority children’s services are indeed such agencies. A common problem for separated migrant children, including child victims of human trafficking, who may have entered the country without documents or on false papers is that their age is disputed by the Home Office and by local authorities, and that these agencies are unwilling to support them. Until the age of a person is verified, they should be treated as children, not adults, for the purposes of accessing support.

The case for guardians, as set out in the amendment, is supported by many international and domestic bodies, including the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, the Council of Europe expert group on trafficking and, most recently, the Joint Committee on Human Rights in its inquiry into unaccompanied migrant children and young people. That is supported in the long-standing position of the Refugee Children’s Consortium, a coalition of more than 40 non-governmental organisations working with children caught up in the immigration system. I urge the Minister to think carefully in the response to the amendment, which is an important initiative that is much needed by the research called for earlier.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 11th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I add my congratulations to the Government on producing their amendment, which is a significant milestone. The noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, spoke of a long journey. I pay tribute to all those who have been on that journey, including my colleagues at Loughborough University in the Young Carers Research Group who were there at the outset and I think coined the phrase “young carers”. They have done a lot of research which has helped lead to this conclusion. Therefore, it is very gratifying for me to thank them and all the others who have contributed to this outcome.

I pick up a point made by my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch about parents caring for disabled children. Carers UK points out that: it is three times more costly to bring up a disabled child than a non-disabled child; parent carers are more likely to be reliant on income-based state support; 34% of sick or disabled children live in households where there is no adult in paid work, compared with 18% of children who are not sick or disabled; parent carers are more likely to suffer relationship breakdown and divorce, and three or more times more likely to suffer ill health and health breakdown than parents of non-disabled children; and more than half the families who responded to its survey felt that a lack of statutory services was the key factor contributing to their feelings of isolation. A recent study by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner carried out with disabled children found that for many disabled children and their families the impact of low income on basic needs was compounded by inadequate services, personal support and information. In some areas necessary housing adaptations were hard to obtain, long delays were experienced and appropriate provision was achieved only through persistent parental pressure.

Will the Minister explain why this group does not seem to come under the whole family approach that he rightly emphasised? Will he consider having another look at this as it is now a gaping hole? I hope that he might take another look at this hole and be willing to fill it on Report.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

My Lords, no one can be anything but absolutely delighted at the government amendment. I, too, was at the joint meeting with the noble Lord, Lord Nash, and the noble Earl, Lord Howe, but wish to ask some further questions, following on from the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Tyler. I am concerned that, even if a local authority had a duty in this regard, there would be extreme difficulties in continuing this journey. We are on the first step of the journey. As a long-standing practitioner, I know that the problem arises with the actual implementation of these services.

When I asked a supplementary question about the parents of disabled children, I was told that it could be dealt with in this Committee. We do not get those services for disabled children, or a proper co-ordinated family approach in local authorities, because of the difficulties they have in meeting their commitments currently. I have said this before, but I sometimes think I am living in a parallel universe where our aspirations and our joy at achieving excellent legislation cannot be matched by reality. My own local authority is about to face further cuts of £145 million on top of previous ones. Every noble Lord in this Room should know what their own local authority faces and what the implications will be for services on the ground. I want to hear from the Minister how we can meet the young carers approach and about what we might do for disabled families, because they need the services, not more legislation.

There is an answer. If we had good, co-ordinated family assessment and family workers with no duplication—I speak as a trained family case-worker in the past—where one worker undertakes the assessment and knows which experts to call on when other expertise is needed, and much more focus in terms of the work, we might actually save resources. However, I do not know how that gets into regulations. I would be very interested to see whether or not we can do that because we could revolutionise some of these services by the approach we take in implementation. We have legislation that says that disabled children should receive X, Y and Z for particular conditions, but I fear that the services are simply not there to meet the need. I am sorry if that sounds a slightly sour note—it is not meant to, as I am utterly delighted that we have this in the Bill. What I hope we can do now is to start to revolutionise services so that it actually happens, day to day, in people’s lives.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, support these amendments and congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, on her persistence on these matters and issues. Like my noble friend Lord Storey, I believe that the right teaching for vision and delivery can make a difference and change lives in schools. I know this from personal experience, because I often visit primary and secondary schools across the country and always speak about philosophy to children; some as young as four years old but right up to 18 year-olds. I tell them to practise the philosophy of what I call my three Cs.

Consideration is about having respect and empathy for other people and being able to put yourself in the place of others without being judgmental. The more privileged you are, the more consideration you need to show others. The second C is for contentment, which is about having a happy, contented heart and not being jealous and envious of what other people have. The more contented you are, the more ready you are to receive what is right for you. The third C is for confidence, which is about having high self-esteem and high self-worth. If others do wrong to you, it is not your fault. It is about feeling worthy and being able to love and give unconditionally, and practising that at that very young age. I teach children how to deal with temptation and to learn to say no, whether that is to joining a gang, having sex, drinking or bullying others.

This philosophy really empowers children. It makes them feel worthy and gives them the spiritual guidance that children crave in the materialistic world in which they live today. It helps them to cope with adversity; to feel as if they belong. Children need that feeling deep in their souls. It gives them the confidence to face the world: it opens up their minds to the world. I have been doing this for the past 30 years or more and I have seen the results. However, more needs to happen: children need to feel as if they are somebody.

Every single day of my life I receive a letter from someone or meet someone in the street who tells me: “What you did for me in school saved my life. What you did showed me I could be somebody. You showed me how to lead my life the way I wanted to, to be who I should be”. I met a woman who said: “I was a crack addict when I was a young teenager. When you came into school and spoke to me, you saved my life. You showed me I was worthy. You made me look at it and see it in a different way”. We need to give that kind of philosophy to children in school: they desperately need that help.

I also agree that we need to have meaningful sex and relationship education as part of PSHE, to demonstrate what loving, respectful relationships are. Too many of our young people are learning from, and being influenced by, online pornography. Girls think they have to behave like porn stars to be liked by boys. Boys expect the girls to behave in a sexually explicit way. They both think this is what love is. Some young people are even raping and sexually abusing very young children—five year-olds are being raped—because teenagers are putting into practice what they have witnessed in online pornography. Children need to have a balanced influence about sex and to learn what love and respect are.

After one school visit, when I spoke to 13 year-old girls, I received several letters from girls who said that no one had ever told them that they were loved unconditionally. Years later, I met one of these girls who told me that she had not got pregnant and was going to sixth-form college. She wanted to be somebody: she felt worthy. We must not assume that children know how to cope or deal with the hard slog of life. We have to teach them so that they can lead the happier life that some are so desperate for. They can then pass that knowledge on to their children. It all starts at school, where they spend most of their early life. They do not always receive that guidance from home, so let us make sure that those who do not get it do not miss out. That is why I support these amendments.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I hesitate to speak after such a powerful speech, but I want to make three brief points in support of these amendments. First, my noble friend Lady Jones referred to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. It is important to have a rights-based approach to sex and relationship education. People sometimes say that there is too much emphasis on rights these days and not enough emphasis on obligations. However, we must remember that this is about the right to safety—a very basic right for children and young people. A few years ago, in Leicester, colleagues and I did some interesting research about young people’s transition to citizenship. We were quite surprised that the young people found it much harder to articulate their rights than they did their obligations. They knew what their obligations were: many of them had expectations about paid work and knew their obligation to be good citizens in the local community. However, when we asked them about their rights they did not know what to say: they did not know about rights. It is a myth that we have got too much into rights and not enough into obligations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, my name is added to this amendment. I would like to speak particularly about young people who have been trafficked into this country. I declare an interest as the co-chairman of the trafficking parliamentary group and a trustee of the Human Trafficking Foundation. The Refugee Council and the Children’s Society have highlighted this particular group of young people who come within Amendment 234. They are included in the young people to whom the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, referred but they form a very specific group of young people who have been trafficked into this country, are identified as having been slaves and are often put into care or accommodated by the local authority which arranges for them to go to school and live in England until they are 18. Some may be asylum seekers. The latter were referred to by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel. However, some are not asylum seekers and the minute they turn 18 they become illegal immigrants under Schedule 3 to the relevant Act, and there is no one to protect them. If they remain in this country, they are particularly vulnerable. They have no status, no access to public funds and no housing. Some of them sleep on the streets and are dependent on soup kitchens. They are destitute. Others are at real risk of being sent back to the abusing situation in the country of origin from which they had escaped, having been trafficked here. Some of them are terrified at the prospect of going back because they may be retrafficked or may well be very ill-treated for having escaped the traffickers, so to go back to their country of origin, particularly when that is Nigeria, is extremely problematic.

We are in the extraordinary position of having identified these young people as victims of trafficking and having cared for them in this country where they were looked after and made welcome. However, the moment they turn 18, they are considered to be illegal immigrants and no one looks after them. I ask the Minister to look at this group of trafficked children, who probably number 100 or 200, who have been to school in this country. I have no idea what the actual number is but it is tiny. It is a pretty odd situation if we look after them and educate them but then leave them destitute the moment they turn 18.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I wish to speak briefly in support of the amendment, and I am very pleased that it has been tabled. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, have both talked about destitution. I was a member of the Parliamentary Inquiry into Asylum Support for Children and Young People. That was a slightly wider group than that on which this amendment is focused, but the point is the same. We said that:

“Although the inquiry’s focus was on those in receipt of asylum support, the panel was shocked to hear of instances where children were left destitute and homeless, entirely without institutional support and forced to rely on food parcels or charitable donations. Evidence received by the inquiry cited counts where children made up between 13-20% of the local destitute population”.

I find it shameful that we have anyone in the population who is destitute in a society as rich as ours. It is particularly shaming that people who have come to this country to seek refuge should be destitute, and that children should be destitute.

Perhaps I may reinforce what the noble Earl said by referring to a case study which has been provided by the Refugee Children’s Consortium. It states:

“Case study: Matthew—a young person from Iran. Matthew is a torture survivor who came to the UK from Iran when he was aged 17. He was refused asylum and wanted to appeal but his solicitor did not want to support his appeal so he went to court unrepresented. His appeal was rejected and children’s services stopped his support. He was made homeless for one year. He was seeing a psychologist while being supported by children’s services but once the support was cut off, the counselling stopped as well. While homeless Matthew’s health deteriorated”—

is that surprising?

“He couldn’t sleep at night. His hair was falling out. He experienced a lot of violence when he was sleeping on the streets. Sometimes he was able to work for his friend in exchange for accommodation. He was desperate to stay in the UK because he feared for his life if he were to return to Iran. With help from The Children’s Society he was able to get a new solicitor and put in a fresh claim”.

This really should not happen.

I was also involved in the launch of a report from Freedom From Torture about the poverty experienced by torture survivors. One of the strong messages in that report was how poverty undermines the rehabilitation of torture survivors. This is dreadful. Torture survivors, who are psychologically scarred, then have to go through further ordeals when they get to this country. I hope very much that the Minister will be able to say something rather more positive in response to this amendment than perhaps was the response to the previous amendment by the noble Lord, Lord Nash.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I support this amendment. Noble Lords will recall that I talked about a similar group of young people who were privately fostered. It was then subsequently discovered that those with whom they had been privately fostered were not in fact family, or if they were, they had not sorted out the children’s immigration status. When they reached the age of 18, or sometimes 16, and went to college, they found that they did not have the appropriate paperwork and they then became illegal immigrants.

As a country, we have totally failed to grasp a very straightforward issue, which is that if these children are in our country and are at school, they can be checked by the school, by the local social services or by the health services wherever they find themselves. Surely we have a responsibility to sort out their status before they reach the age of 18. Some of these young people clearly could go back to their country of origin, and there are voluntary organisations which work in that area. Others, however, clearly cannot do so. Recently I met a young man at a reception provided by the Children’s Society for the work it is doing on its Here to Listen? campaign. That young man was bright and intelligent, and wanted to get on with his life. I asked him about his immigration status, and the answer was, “I have not yet got a passport”. My heart sank because I knew that what might well happen, if this could not be sorted out, would be that he would possibly find himself being sent back to whatever he had escaped from.

We pride ourselves in this country on the work we do with children and child protection. Look at the lengths we go to in order to develop child protection procedures. We go to huge lengths to ensure that young people, including these young people, have a proper education. How can we be so neglectful as to not notice that when they reach later adolescence they will become destitute, be sent back to appalling circumstances or have a hugely strenuous set of interactions with the law to try to gain proper status so that their lives do not fall apart? I have been an advocate for some young people who have found themselves in this position at 18, trying to go through our complex system in order to get this sorted.

I do not think it is beyond our departments to find a system that looks at all of these groups of young people. I agree with the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, that young people who are trafficked are particularly vulnerable. All these young people could easily have their status sorted out earlier in the process. We would not then be faced with these kinds of difficulties.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2013 Grand Committee

I ask the Minister at the very least to include this duty in the code of practice accompanying the Bill and to ensure that the necessary measures are put in place so that the significant demand from families with disabled children for inclusive and accessible services is met.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

I rise to speak in support of Amendments 65D and 219. As the noble Lord, Lord Low, said, Amendment 65D was a recommendation of the Joint Committee on Human Rights. I am very grateful to him for moving it so ably. There are really no more arguments to put, because he put all the key arguments. Does the Minister accept that the amendment avoids the crude binary distinction between inclusion and specialism that the Government understandably wish to avoid? If he does, will he accept the recommendation? If he does not accept it, is there some other wording that he would accept that would enable the principle of inclusion to be put in the Bill? As the noble Lord, Lord Low, said, it is an important principle.

The Joint Committee on Human Rights also gave its support to Amendment 219. It is a broader amendment than the amendment recommended by the Joint Committee. UNICEF’s The State of the World’s Children 2013: Children with Disabilities report emphasises that an accessible environment is essential if children with disabilities are to enjoy their right to participate in the community. The right to participate in the community is fundamental to citizenship. I am sure every noble Lord in this Room believes in the equal and full citizenship of disabled children. Therefore, I hope the Government will be able to accept this amendment.

[Baroness Brinton]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of UNICEF. I, too, am delighted to be speaking in favour of Amendment 219, which can bring about the transformation of education—much of our emphasis today has been on education—and, importantly, health and social care services, which is needed to make them truly inclusive for families with disabled children.

I strongly believe that the starting point for looking at the reforms to SEN in this Bill should be that a disabled child has just as much right as every other child to be involved in their community, to be visible in their own community and to have the same opportunities as their non-disabled peers. Despite some very welcome reforms to support for disabled children and children with SEN in the Bill, I fear that the right of disabled children to participate in their community will not be sufficiently realised through the Bill. This concern is shared by UNICEF and the Joint Committee on Human Rights, as the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, noted.

There is compelling evidence that families with disabled children currently encounter huge difficulties in accessing support in their community. Indeed, Scope’s recent Keep Us Close report found that a mere 14% of families with disabled children said they could get all the support they needed in their local community. Therefore families which already face immense challenges on a daily basis more often than not encounter a closed door when it comes to ensuring that their children enjoy the same opportunities as other children.

The Government previously stated in Committee on the Bill in the other place that there are already duties in place to ensure that appropriate provision is made for children and young people with special educational needs and disabled children and their families. However, such duties are clearly failing to achieve their intended purpose. Although the Equality Act 2010 requires organisations to be proactive and responsive in ensuring that the public services that they provide are inclusive and accessible, the reality is that services for disabled children are often developed, planned and commissioned separately from other community services, and consequently miss more strategic opportunities to create joined-up support and a more inclusive society. Parents are confronted with local activities and services that are inaccessible or a lack of support services to enable disabled children to join in with local activities such as youth groups or even simply playing in the park with their peers.

The Government need to set out a clear strategic direction and create a strong imperative for local authorities to focus on accessibility of local services, and that is exactly what the amendment would do. Although a number of local authorities undertake excellent work alongside families with disabled children to ensure that their needs are met by mainstream services—notably Suffolk, Leeds and Blackpool—not all local authorities are as progressive. Many local authorities and voluntary organisations want to provide more inclusive and accessible services, and the amendment would help to give them a chance to do that.

Such a duty on local authorities and NHS bodies would not have to be burdensome. Disabled children and those with SEN more often than not do not need hugely different or specialist services. With small changes to an existing service, we can make them accessible and inclusive for disabled children. It is not about providing more and separate services, but, rather, targeting current provision in the most effective way.

Indeed, making services accessible and inclusive for disabled children is just as much about changing attitudes as it is about making physical adjustments. It is about breaking down many of the fears and misconceptions about what inclusion means and ensuring that services see children simply as the individuals who they are—forcing services to think more creatively about how they can meet the needs of families with disabled children and allow the 1.7 million disabled children and children with SEN to reach their potential.

--- Later in debate ---

On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, about presumption, the presumption of mainstream education already puts the principle of inclusion in the Bill. The code of practice subsumes the currently separate inclusive schooling guidance, and I am of course happy to liaise with noble Lords on the wording of the code.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

Before the Minister moves on, I would be grateful if he could answer my question whether he accepts that the recommendation from the JCHR, as encapsulated in Amendment 65D, avoids the false binary between inclusion and specialism. To be honest, I am still not really clear why there is so much resistance to putting the principle of exclusion explicitly in the Bill.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2013 Grand Committee

I emphasise that the agencies that support this amendment are not seeking some idealised version of a perfect ethnic, racial or cultural match. However, they recognise that it is essential for a child with that background to be placed in a family with knowledge, understanding and networks that will enable the child to feel that they have a place in the world and where their inevitable curiosity about their cultural heritage will be recognised and engaged with. Unfortunately, I am afraid that love on its own is not enough in these circumstances.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch made reference to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. We have heard some very powerful arguments in support of these amendments. I simply want to support what has been said with reference to what the Joint Committee on Human Rights said on this, and I speak as a member of that committee.

My noble friend and others have questioned the evidence base for the Government’s position. The Joint Committee looked at the evidence and we asked the Government what evidence they were using. We came to the conclusion that the evidence simply did not support the Government’s position. There is clear evidence of problems with delay. We share the Government’s concern about that and I do not think that anyone is arguing that we do not need action to deal with it. However, the evidence to which the Government referred did not show that these delays were due to ethnic matching. Therefore, we concluded:

“We are … not satisfied that the Government has demonstrated by reference to evidence that the statutory provision it proposes to repeal has been responsible for delays in the adoption process to the detriment of children from ethnic minority backgrounds”.

Perhaps the Minister could explain to the Committee what this evidence is, because what the Government have provided so far is not convincing. The committee continued:

“Even if there were evidence showing that the ‘due regard’ requirement … has led to disproportionate weight being given to a child’s ethnic background”—

and as I have said, we do not think that there is—

“we fail to see why it would be necessary to remove from the legal framework all reference to ‘religious persuasion, racial origin and cultural and linguistic background.’ We do not follow the logic in the Government’s argument that including those considerations in the welfare checklist would still lead to them being accorded disproportionate weight”.

I am completely bemused. A lot was said about this at Second Reading. I do not understand why the Government are so resistant to the very sensible recommendation from the adoption committee that it simply should be part of the checklist. No one is arguing that it should be given disproportionate weight any more; that has been accepted. The very fact of taking it out, though, as has already been said, in a sense is giving disproportionate weight to the other view that, “Clearly, we mustn’t take any account of it at all because the Government said that it must not be part of the list”. I cannot believe that that is what the Government want to achieve. Perhaps the Minister will explain why they are so resistant to that simply being part of a list that gives equivalent weight to other factors. The committee stated:

“In our view, removing from the legal framework any reference to ‘religious persuasion, racial origin and cultural and linguistic background’ risks those considerations being regarded as no longer matters to which due regard must be paid, which would be incompatible with Article 20(3) UNCRC”.

There could be a challenge to that with reference to the UN convention.

The noble Baroness, Lady Young of Hornsey, referred to the need for other actions. The NSPCC suggested that legislation of itself will not address the problems of delay. The Government therefore need to commit to other actions such as paying attention to the need to actively recruit more adoptive families from a range of minority ethnic backgrounds; to give more support to adoptive parents and social workers to aid their understanding of the needs of minority ethnic children and improving long-term stability for minority ethnic children who are looked after; and, as has already been said, to consider how to boost permanency for such children beyond adoption, particularly through a consideration of guardianship, kinship care and long-term foster care.

I endorse what has already been said but I am completely at a loss as to why the Government are so resistant to this proposal from the adoption committee, which the Joint Committee on Human Rights has also endorsed.

[Baroness Hamwee]

I too have my name to Amendment 11. It seems that these issues of religious persuasion, racial origin and cultural and linguistic background have been the subject of a pendulum that has swung considerably backwards and forwards over the years. It may be that these issues are not everything but they are certainly not nothing. As other noble Lords have said, the Government have recognised that these issues should be considered along with all other relevant factors.

I thought what the noble Baroness, Lady Young, had to say about identity was so powerful that I do not want to pursue the issue myself because I could not say it as well. I just wrote down the word “identity” with big marks against it when I was making my notes for this debate. We must not suppress these issues. Our society comprises a huge variety of combinations of these different matters, and an increasing variety as people from different ethnic backgrounds marry one another and different mixes appear. There should not be excessive emphasis.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, used the phrase, which I think the Minister also used, “ramming the message home”. It is not for legislation to ram a message home; legislation should get the measure right rather more calmly. There is a danger that the message that will be taken is that these issues should now be ignored, when what really matters, as other noble Lords have said, is a placement with adopters who understand the issues and can support the child. You might come from exactly the same ethnic origin or religious background but not be able to support the child; they are not the same thing. The indicative guidance that we have received recognises this. I think that it talks—and if it does not, it should—about the need to recruit adopters from a range of backgrounds.

I do not think that there is a difference of view between what we are all saying and what the Government are thinking; it is not about the “what” but more about the “how”. The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, said that she was at a loss. I do not think that I am at a loss. There has been an oversensitivity, if I can put it that way, to what some parts of the media regard as “political correctness”, and there are better ripostes to that attitude in the media than the change in legislation that is proposed. I strongly support the amendment.

Children and Families Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, as other noble Lords have observed, there is much to welcome in this Bill, even if it has to be read in the context of children and families, particularly those on low incomes, carrying the main burden of austerity and economic and social policies. This is clearly demonstrated by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner’s child rights impact assessment of Budget decisions, which warns that the best interests of children are not being treated as the primary consideration in the design of fiscal measures relating to welfare benefits, tax credits and taxes.

As a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, I shall focus on three of the issues raised in our report on the Bill. First, on the reforms to the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, the committee has welcomed them as significant human rights enhancing measures. However, despite the changes made in response to our pre-legislative scrutiny, some concerns remain. The committee recommended that the commissioner’s primary function of promoting and protecting the rights of children should be explicitly defined with reference to the rights set out in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, rather than the commissioner simply having to have regard to these rights. This stronger formulation would be in line with the recommendation of the Dunford review, mentioned by the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles.

The committee also underlined the importance of the commissioner’s independence. The recent UNICEF global study of independent human rights institutions for children stresses:

“Independence is the defining feature of human rights institutions for children”.

The degree of independence is pivotal in determining their success or failure. At the same time, independence is also their most fragile quality. UNICEF identifies sufficient and sustainable financial resources as key to independence.

While the Bill enhances the commissioner’s independence, there are very real concerns that it will not have sufficient resources to fulfil its enhanced duties in a way that ensures its compliance with the Paris principles, which govern international human rights bodies. In a digital age it is crucial that an organisation’s independence is signalled by its website. At present that is not the case, despite protracted negotiations. The JCHR has urged the Government to resolve this issue swiftly, and I would welcome the Minister’s assurance that it will do so.

There are also other important ways in which the office of the Children’s Commissioner must be strengthened. These were raised by the Alliance for Reform of the Children’s Commissioner, and no doubt we will explore them in Committee. For example, there is a case for extending the definition of vulnerable children for whom the commissioner is required to have particular regard to include separated children who are seeking asylum, children who have been trafficked and children in custody.

Turning to Part 1 of the Bill, the Joint Committee recommended that Clause 1 be amended to make more explicit the Government’s intention that a fostering for adoption placement does not take priority over a placement with family and friends, where that is the most appropriate placement available. I hope this is what the Minister had in mind when making the welcome assurance in his speech. I hope he can reassure us on that.

The Joint Committee also questioned the evidence base for removing any requirement to give due regard to a child’s ethnic, religious, cultural and linguistic background in making decisions about adoption. The danger is that without any such reference, due regard might not be paid to these factors, which would be incompatible with Article 20(3) of the UNCRC. The committee therefore recommended that these considerations be added to the checklist to which local authorities are required to have regard. This was also recommended by the Select Committee on Adoption Legislation.

Finally, I wish to speak about the shared parental leave provisions. At Third Reading in the Commons the Minister commented that these provisions have,

“not had the same prominence or debate”,

as other parts of the Bill. She suggested that this is,

“perhaps a mark of the remarkable consensus on them in general”.—[Official Report, 11 June 2013; col. 293.]

I am sorry to break that consensus. I agree that there is a consensus around the goal of encouraging and enabling fathers to play a greater caring role in the first year, and of achieving the necessary culture change for this to happen. However, having willed the end the Government have proved too timid to will the means, through a period of leave reserved for the father on a “use it or lose it” basis. As the Government pointed out in their original consultation on modern workplaces:

“International evidence suggests that fathers’ usage of parental leave is higher under schemes that offer them targeted or reserved leave as opposed to just making shared leave available to the father”.

This is somehow forgotten in the otherwise very thorough impact assessment. As it is, the impact assessment anticipates a take-up rate by fathers of shared parental leave of a mere 2% to 8%. This is hardly enough to achieve a culture change or a real shift in the division of caring responsibilities between fathers and mothers, which I believe to be essential if we are to achieve true gender equality. The evidence cited in the impact assessment suggests that this would have a positive long-term effect on children and young people. The Fatherhood Institute has dismissed what is proposed as,

“a re-naming of the existing parasitic Additional Paternity Leave (i.e. transferable Maternity Leave) with a few ‘tweaks’”.

This may strike noble Lords as a tad harsh, but it makes an important point. A father's right to parental leave will be dependent upon and mediated by the mother. That is not a genuine independent right.

The Joint Committee welcomes the provisions as representing progress towards the implementation of the obligation set out in Article 18(1) of the UNCRC to take steps to ensure recognition of the principle of the “common responsibility to parenting”, but it also expresses disappointment that the Bill does not make the more ambitious provision for shared parental leave that was foreshadowed in the modern workplaces consultation. I know that the Government have said that they will keep this matter under review and that there are powers in the legislation to extend paternity leave and for it to be taken in non-consecutive periods. Can the Minister clarify whether this means that it could be taken at any point during the period covered by shared parental leave? Despite these powers, I still believe that this is a step backwards from the enlightened proposals in the original consultation document. Another step backwards is the absence of any provision for part-time leave, even though this was proposed in the original consultation. As the charity Working Families points out, part-time leave and part-time pay may have significant benefits for families, particularly those on low incomes who would like to extend the time they can spend at home, but cannot afford to have no income.

I hope that we will be able to give these and related matters rather fuller consideration than in the Commons, and that we will be able to rectify at least some of the Bill’s weaknesses as we come to scrutinise this important piece of legislation.