Kashmir: Line of Control

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 20th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hussain]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of peace and stability in the south Asian region, particularly in the light of the current tension and cross-border firing between India and Pakistan at the Kashmir Line of Control.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, we are concerned about the recent incidents that have taken place on both sides of the line of control and international border between India and Pakistan. Our long-standing position is that it is for India and Pakistan to find a lasting resolution that takes into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people. It is not for the United Kingdom to prescribe a solution or to mediate in finding one.

[Lord Hussain (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. We know that India and Pakistan have been to war three times over Kashmir. If any of these tensions escalate into another war, now that both countries are nuclear powers, that war could well be nuclear. Hence, is it not incumbent on the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, including Great Britain, to help to de-escalate the tension across the line of control, demilitarise the Kashmir region and help to create a conducive environment for the Kashmiri people to have their right to self-determination, as we have seen given to the Scottish people in recent weeks?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I recognise my noble friend’s family background. He was raised in the Pakistani-administered state of Kashmir, so I realise that he has long-standing experience and ties. He has also worked hard for Kashmiri charities in this country, and I admire that. It is indeed in everyone’s interest that there is peace, security and prosperity in south Asia. The UK will do all that it can to encourage India and Pakistan to take the steps necessary to strengthen their relationship. However, the pace and scope of their dialogue has to be for them to determine, not for others.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, in the light of Britain’s neutral position on this matter, what is the Government’s position on the role of British nationals of Pakistani origin fighting for the Pakistani army, and British nationals of Indian origin fighting in the Indian army?

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the position of the British Government on those who decide to take up arms overseas is determined on a case-by-case basis. Clearly, British nationals have the right to travel overseas. My noble friend asks the question against the background of the severe situation in Syria and Iraq. I hope and assume that she is not in any way trying to draw a parallel between British people who are engaged in any activities in India, Pakistan, the Indian-administered part of Kashmir or the Pakistani-administered part of Kashmir and those who are engaged in the horrific activities in Syria and Iraq.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, this week is Inter Faith Week in which we explore commonalities between our different faiths and look to knock down these false barriers of belief that divide people up in the way that was done at partition. Bearing that in mind, will the Minister agree that the partition of the subcontinent on a religious basis—a basis of false, irreconcilable religious differences—was a huge mistake?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the agreements reached between India and Pakistan were for them to reach and not for the British Government to criticise, but the noble Lord raises serious questions about the way in which—throughout all human history—there has been strife either based on religion or for which religion has been used as a reason. He brings a very measured and reflective point to this debate today and I am grateful to him.

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that elections are no substitute for a free, fair and impartial plebiscite as promised by the United Nations in 1948 and 1949, and therefore that the forthcoming elections in Indian-administered Kashmir would not be a substitute for that outstanding promise of the United Nations, which should be given to the people of Kashmir?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, there is a long history indeed to the dispute; that has already been drawn to our attention. Subsequent to the United Nations Security Council Resolution 47, there have been further developments. The noble Lord, Lord Ahmed, will know of the Simla Agreement which now forms, as I understand it, the basis of the negotiations between India and Pakistan. It is clear that India and Pakistan themselves have the opportunity to take peaceful measures bilaterally to resolve the issue, taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people. There are elections ahead, and they have always in the past been judged by the international community to be free and fair.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

My Lords, understanding that this is a very sensitive issue, will the Minister reflect that over the many decades which have passed, the British Government have frequently intervened to try to get some sense into a difficult situation, and that we should not set our face entirely against trying to play some sort of mediation role or at least some sort of role to stimulate proper development?

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important point; there are ways in which we can assist both India and Pakistan to be more prosperous and to have a greater understanding of their role in international society. We can also discuss with both countries their attitude towards human rights—and I can say that that does go ahead. We are certainly very active in negotiations on trade matters with both countries. For example, my noble friend Lady Verma was in India only last week on just that matter, so I am grateful to the noble Lord for those points.

EU: Reform

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Wednesday 19th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Maclennan of Rogart]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with European Union institutions about proposed reforms of the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, Ministers regularly discuss EU reform with counterparts in the EU institutions. The appointment of a new Commission offers a new opportunity for continued engagement on this subject. The Foreign Secretary held discussions with the European Commissioners’ first vice-president on this subject only two days ago. We will continue to take every opportunity to work with our European partners to achieve the reforms that Europe needs.

[Lord Maclennan of Rogart (LD)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer. If the Government wish to see constructive and democratic reforms introduced into the governance and operation of the European Union, why are they not more open about their proposals? Would they not be more likely to succeed if they were to seek to initiate a new convention on the future of Europe which could achieve consensus about reform rather than threatening the other 27 member states with possible break-up?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we have been very transparent about the reforms we want. The Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have set out publicly their vision for a more competitive, flexible and democratically accountable EU, with fair treatment for those within the eurozone and those outside it. That is in the interests of all member states. My noble friend refers to the potential for a convention. The only convention to date that has examined extensive revision of the treaties is the one in which my noble friend served some while ago. It compromised 105 full members, including Heads of State, members of national Parliaments, MEPs and Commission representatives, and the process took two and a half years. As a mature organisation, Heads of State are capable of talking to each other and coming to mature decisions.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the noble Baroness will agree that Sir John Major commands enormous respect on all sides of this House. Will she therefore endorse very clearly what he said last week about our membership of the European Union: that despite the frustrations of membership, which are many, and despite the reforms that are needed, which are many, there is absolutely no doubt—without equivocation—that our interests lie in remaining a member of the EU? Do this Government agree with the former Conservative Prime Minister?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I admire Sir John Major. I know the work he did as Prime Minister and within European matters, and the struggles that he faced. He above all people knows what is involved. I agree with what he said, which was that our future is within a reformed European Union. The Prime Minister David Cameron has said that, too.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that successful and fundamental EU reform, which is badly needed, requires two things: first, a very strong alliance of the peoples and the Governments of the European Union, many of whom are longing for really radical reform to bring the EU into the 21st century and, secondly, a deeply thought-out strategy for the kind of EU model we need to work in the 21st century, which is at present lacking? Will she assure us that at the highest level these matters are being given very strong attention and are being pursued vigorously?

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I can. The contribution made yesterday by the German deputy Finance Minister on “Newsnight” made it clear that strong and productive discussions are afoot.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

Will my noble friend the Minister confirm that once the opt-back-in to the 35 measures is complete, the UK will be in a strong position to push for reform in the areas of policing and criminal justice and civil liberties, including reform of the European arrest warrant, which is needed, as well as staying within the instrument itself?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, this Government have already reformed the process of the European arrest warrant. It is different from that which this House passed in 2004. The Government are strongly of the opinion that further reform is necessary across all aspects of EU activity to make it more flexible, competitive and democratically accountable.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister reflect a moment longer on the Answer she gave to the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan of Rogart, about the idea of a convention, which was echoed to some extent by the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford? It is not just a question of Heads of Government making decisions; it is a question of Heads of Government being able to convince their Parliaments about what is necessary in a reformed Europe. To do that, we need a wider coming together of the various political groupings in Europe. I think the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan of Rogart, is on to something and I ask the Minister to reflect again on that.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I agree that the European Union needs to be more democratically accountable, and any changes within the European Union should therefore involve the participation of national Parliaments. There is much that can be done to ensure that national Parliaments have a stronger role to play. We now have a new Commission and a new head of the Commission, and there are prospects for a very constructive discussion about how we take these matters forward. In the first instance, it takes leadership and that is what the various Governments throughout Europe are showing now.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the championing of the single market under the Single European Act 1986 was one of Margaret Thatcher’s great achievements as Prime Minister, aided by a Member of your Lordships’ House, Lord Cockfield? Does she further agree that, about 30 years on from that date, there will inevitably be a number of areas where adjustments can and should be made in the interests of all member states without undermining the basic principles on which the single market is based?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, yes, I agree with my noble friend. I have tried to argue over the last four or five weeks that the single market is, indeed, a British success story—my noble friend makes an important point. The United Kingdom has played a leading role in shaping the single market. We have been instrumental in driving its continued liberalisation, particularly in services. My noble friend is right; this is 30 years on, so while the single market is Europe’s greatest success, it must reflect the needs of the 21st century, with a stronger market, particularly in services, both digital and in energy. Further reforms are needed and we can lead on that.

EU: Free Movement of Labour

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 11th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taverne]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the recent remarks by the Prime Ministers of Sweden and Finland at the annual meeting of Baltic and Nordic leaders in respect of the free movement of labour within the European Union and its relationship with the internal market.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise the importance of free movement in relation to the internal market, but free movement is not an unqualified right. We are working with other member states to tackle abuse of this right and to ensure that we prevent sudden and uncontrolled migrations of the kind seen following previous accessions of new member states.

[Lord Taverne (LD)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister found himself isolated from his supposed friends and allies at the Helsinki meeting in his approach to the question of placing limits on the free movement of labour in the European Union. Does he recognise that, by his continuous appeasement of UKIP and by what the Economist called his recent “railing” against the institutions of Europe, he is setting Britain on the path of exit from Europe? Can the Minister assure us that there will be no more appeasement of UKIP before or after the Rochester by-election because, unless he changes course, in the event that he should become Prime Minister again after May he could go down in history as the Prime Minister who did more to destroy British influence in America, among our friends in Europe, in the Commonwealth and in the rest of the world than any of his predecessors?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Prime Minister was certainly not isolated when he met Prime Ministers at the Northern Future Forum. There was a strong and constructive discussion over dinner about many subjects, with migration clearly being an important one. Although it was a private meeting, the result was that when those present met the next day for their press conference, the Prime Minister was able to say in front of them and with their agreement that:

“I think there was common ground on a number of points”.

Some “problems and issues” had been identified in relation to welfare and benefits but,

“all of the countries around the table last night said that was something that should be looked at”.

He was supported in that by the Finnish Prime Minister, Mr Alexander Stubb, who thanked us for opening our borders in 2004, but also said that we should see what we could all do about the situation to try to alleviate it. In arguing for the interests of this country, the Prime Minister can find those of a like mind who see that a strong Europe addresses the problems that all states are facing. That is because it is to the benefit of all the states of Europe to ensure that we have a system of migration which is not an unqualified right, but is founded in the right to work, contribute to the economy and assimilate into society.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Prime Minister, in seeking to ensure that we have control of our own borders, is not seeking to appease UKIP but is reflecting the views of the vast majority of people in this country? The failure of the Liberals to understand that may explain why their support is evaporating.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend is always worth listening to.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Does my noble friend accept that it would be a good thing if both the Government and the Opposition spent a bit more time explaining why and what immigrants from the rest of Europe contribute to our economy, how much good they are doing here, and how valuable it is for us to have the free movement of our labour into the rest of the European Union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Prime Minister is the first to explain how membership of a reformed EU is for the benefit of this country. I think that he did rather tease the Lithuanian Prime Minister by pointing out that 6% of the population of Lithuania now lives in the United Kingdom, so clearly we all have different problems with migration. My experience over the years has shown me that migrants form a very valuable part of our society. It is clear, though, that the increase in EU migration has caused some stresses and strains in some areas of the country on services such as health. That should be of concern to us all. We need to put that right to ensure that, when migration works, it is to the benefit of everybody.

[Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)]

My Lords, can the noble Baroness clarify whether the Government are still committed to reducing net migration to the tens of thousands by the end of this Parliament—no ifs and no buts? That is despite evidence, as the noble Lord has just suggested, that EU migrants alone make a £20 billion contribution to the UK economy. Can the Government confirm whether they are still committed to capping the number of EU migrants to Britain irrespective of the comments of the Prime Minister’s so-called allies? How does he intend to convince them that this would be a good idea?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the latter point referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, is of course not part of government negotiations. It is something that may be proposed in the future in a manifesto. On her first point, on television this morning the Home Secretary made clear our commitment to ensure that the numbers are reduced.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Bilimoria]

My Lords, everyone would agree that we should clamp down on illegal immigration and those who come to take advantage of this country. However, is the Minister aware of a recent poll ranking the contributions of immigrant communities? One of the countries that came highest for a positive contribution was the Polish community, with 44%. On the other hand, the Bulgarians were on just 18%, although the Bulgarian ambassador pointed out that only 1,000 Bulgarians were on benefits. Why, then, do we not appreciate the contribution of immigrants from the European Community as well?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we do indeed appreciate the contribution of those who come from the EU to work here. The problem relates to those who come and decide that they will not work. That is why we made changes to the benefits system; that is why Germany is in the process of doing much the same.

[Baroness Ludford]

My Lords, does the Minister welcome the judgment of the European Court of Justice just this morning, as I do, confirming that benefit tourism is not part of the free movement scheme, which is indeed a right to move for work? It has also confirmed the three-month wait period before even those genuinely seeking work can claim benefits. Does she agree that it is entirely in the UK’s interests to support the single market, including liberalisation of services, of which the free movement of people is a part? Cherry picking is therefore not in our national interest.

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for drawing the attention of the House to a judgment that was handed down only this morning. It related to a case taken against the German Government and, in effect, the judgment confirmed that EU migrants who do not have sufficient resources to support themselves and would become an unreasonable burden cannot access national welfare systems. This really highlights that the EU needs a clearer legal framework, clarifying the original treaties and allowing member states to retain control over their own national security systems. It is an important judgment and we will look at it carefully. It will have ramifications across the EU and we will have to consider all matters in much more detail as a result.

Berlin Wall

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 6th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have any plans to mark the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall on 9 November 2014.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, on the anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, plans are in place for the Prime Minister to send a message to the German people. Commemorations will have a civic and social focus, reflecting the manner in which the wall came down. There will be UK participation in these events. Commemorative messages will be placed along the route of the wall, including one from the Mayor of London.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, it is difficult to believe that until a short 25 years ago our continent and peoples were divided. I am sure that the noble Baroness would agree that it is thanks to the European Union that peace, stability and prosperity have been consolidated in countries that used to live on both sides of the wall. Would she further agree that, for all its imperfections, the European Union is where our present and our future lie, and that in a world full of challenges and danger it is foolish to make foes of our most valuable friends? Does she look forward, as I do, to celebrating the 30th anniversary in 2020 as part of that same union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, of course I celebrate and commemorate the fall of the Berlin Wall. It demonstrated a remarkably peaceful revolution and change. I felt that I was part of that as I was active in the politics of the time, working with some of the German political parties. Peace takes more than one country and more than one organisation. We reflect upon the work done by our country over the years, not just in conjunction with the countries across Europe but with NATO and our allies around the Commonwealth: with all of them we should strive to maintain peace.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that it is thanks to the efforts of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher in facing down CND and deploying cruise missiles that the peoples of eastern Europe were freed from the yoke of communism?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend is right.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not a remarkable fact that an East German woman is now the Chancellor of a united Germany? She is a remarkable leader—the main leader in Europe. Surely we should now do our best not to alienate this remarkable woman and go to the point of no return in our relations with the European Union that she has warned us against.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has a very good working relationship with the Chancellor.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Noble Lords may laugh, but I do not laugh at the Chancellor at all; I would not consider doing so. I understand that there is much agreement over some of the issues recently discussed. For example, in Germany at the moment the Bundestag itself is currently considering proposals to tighten access to benefits with regard to the free movement of workers across Europe, because Germany is considering whether to ban re-entry for migrants abusing welfare. Chancellor Merkel has clearly made the point that we must not have abuse of the system. She has joined us in calling for reform in the way that the EU works.

[Lord Dykes (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as an officer of the British-German Association. I thank the Minister for those details of the commemoration and support that we are giving. Does she not agree, though, that the picture is larger? Germany as a democratic country has become an example to us all in Europe, after the war as well as after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and I am very glad to hear that the Government are sending messages. Does she agree that this example gives us a basis on which all countries in the EU should work peacefully together, because it is a model country?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I agree with what my noble friend says. Our bilateral relationship with Germany is a strong one. Since 2000 the number of ministerial and senior official visits has trebled and our trade links are strong. Trade can be the base of peace and prosperity in our relationships with other countries and he is right to propose that we should use our relationship with Germany as a model and an example of working well with other countries.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that part of the reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union—and we found this out afterwards from their intelligence documents—was the military strength that we managed to maintain in the West? Does she agree that we are in great danger now of cutting back on that strength when there are real risks to our security around the world, including in the Ukraine et cetera?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as always I pay tribute to our Armed Forces and all those who work in supporting them. Also, as we sit here with memories of two world wars, we recall the support work done by women in factories throughout the conflicts. Our Armed Forces are absolutely crucial in everything we do with regard to negotiations and the maintenance of peace, but so also is the work done in civic society more generally, and that makes us a strong nation.

[Baroness Seccombe (Con)]

Having been on camera with other noble Lords scrabbling for fragments of that dreadful wall, does my noble friend agree that the demise of that wall was a triumph for freedom and for the German people? Further, should we associate ourselves with them as they mark this outstanding, momentous day in their nation’s history?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I entirely agree. I should add that the 25th anniversary is a civic commemoration. In Germany, every 10 years is considered more important, so the 30th anniversary—to which the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, referred—will be more of a state occasion. I entirely agree with my noble friend.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Does my noble friend accept that there is now no conflict between our membership of NATO and our membership of the European Union and that together these guarantee the freedom and future of Europe? Does she accept that Britain ought to be a full, active and determined member of both, and that at the moment we are not speaking up enough about the benefits of our membership of the European Union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Prime Minister is the first to speak up about the benefits that can be obtained from a European Union that is reformed, and he has support around the European Union to achieve those reforms. We are, of course, strong supporters of NATO—and remain so—but also of the United Nations and all the work that it does.

European Union: Reform

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 6th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dykes]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress is being made in European Council discussions on reform of the European Union treaties.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK regularly discusses EU reform with counterparts both in the European Council and bilaterally. We have already made progress. The June European Council conclusions clearly set out a strong commitment to reforming the EU and it needs to address the UK’s concerns. We will continue to work with our European partners to achieve these reforms, many of which can be made right now.

[Lord Dykes (LD)]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. In the mean time, can I tempt her to endorse the very wise advice of our new British Commissioner, Jonathan Hill, that everybody should calm down and avoid hysteria about the rather technical nature of the budget dues dispute, because our membership of the EU is surely the essential requirement and target, and is much more important than appeasing UKIP and other Europhobes?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the policy of this Government is to argue for the interests of this country. My noble friend is right to point to the very detailed nature of the investigation that must now take place of the demand, out of the blue, for an extra £1.7 billion. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made clear that Her Majesty’s Treasury will now assess the data in exhaustive detail to check how the statistics were arrived at and the methodology that was used. After all, it is British taxpayers’ money and therefore it needs to be examined in detail and discussed properly by Finance Ministers. That will happen tomorrow.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that there is a greater likelihood of Great Britain getting some of the demands that it is making for reform if it talks to the people to whom we always refer as “our partners” as if they were partners, rather than haranguing them, banging the table and treating them as if they were some form of colonial servant from days gone by?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Well, the noble Lord has certainly been in a different place and listening to different things than I have.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend accept that this EU issue is not really a bilateral matter between the United Kingdom and Brussels and the rest of the European Community but an issue of the reform of Europe as a whole, which millions of Europeans are actively waiting for and are seeking now? That is bound to lead eventually to a replacement of the flawed Lisbon treaty and to a new basis from which the European Union can fit into the 21st century.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Government are looking at what reforms can be made now. Clearly, we are a long way off from looking at treaty change, but there is much that we can do now. Our call for change has been echoed by many across Europe. My noble friend is right to talk about our negotiations there, including with the new Presidents of the Council and Commission. Indeed, when the Italian Prime Minister was in London last month, he called for change in Europe and cuts to bureaucracy. We agree with the Dutch when they call for “European where necessary, national where possible”.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, assuming that the Government have at last seen through the propaganda that the EU has brought peace and prosperity and is useful for trade, geopolitics and so on, why cannot they also see that the EU is wholly unreformable and that the only sensible thing to do is to get out of it and help to close it down? What is the point of the European Union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord still fails to see the benefits that we have achieved by our membership of the EU, but also the achievements that we need to have through reform to make sure that we can continue to be a successful member. That is where we want to be. We want to see the EU reformed with us as a strong member of it, and other countries recognise that it needs reform. As to leaving it—not now.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, in relation to freedom of movement negotiations, have the Government made any calculation about what effect this might have on the 2 million British citizens who live in the rest of the European Union? If they were repatriated, what would happen to social services and the National Health Service infrastructure in this country?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That is the kind of question that members of UKIP should think about before they go campaigning.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell us of any member state that supports a treaty change to limit the principle of free movement, as has been advocated by the Prime Minister? In connection with that, what is the Government’s response to the report that came out yesterday that found that migrants from Europe between 2000 and 2011 made a net contribution of £20 billion to this country?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, all academic studies are of interest, but one has to balance them against each other. Clearly, yesterday’s report points to some of the advantages that have accrued in the short term from new migrants who work hard here and who come here and work and do not use benefits. As other academics have said in the past 24 hours, one also has to look at the pattern of claim—at social services use and access to the health service as well as, later on, benefits in old age. So this is a snapshot of a short period. With regard to the broader issue of reform, we have strong support for reforming the EU as it currently stands. That is where our work is going to be.

[Lord Borwick (Con)]

On the vexed subject of the extra £1.7 billion bill, could we ask the EU for a certificate from its auditors that it is the right sum? Given its inability to get its accounts approved for the last very many years, would that be beyond it?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

What an interesting thought, my Lords.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, would the Minister give an assurance that, in pursuing reform of the EU and EU treaties, the Government will pursue what is in the coalition agreement of 2010, which is to end the travelling circus to Strasbourg, which costs about £150 million a year? That reform would really resonate with the people of this country. Is the Minister aware that there is now a considerable cohort of Members of this House who have personal experience and can tell her in great detail about the inconvenience of it, as well as the cost, which is the most important thing to taxpayers?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to see my noble friend back in her place, although losing her seat in Europe was not perhaps the best way in which to achieve it. But her expertise is welcome here, and she makes an extremely important point. Negotiations must proceed to ensure that the EU spends our money wisely.

Central African Republic

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what support they will provide to the United Nations mission in the Central African Republic.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, in April 2014 the United Kingdom supported the establishment of MINUSCA, the UN peacekeeping operation in the Central African Republic. We continue to support UN efforts to build its military and civilian assets to meet the mission’s mandate to build security and stability, support the political process and foster reconciliation in the Central African Republic.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her Answer. The recent decisions to extend the European mission, EUFOR, and the level 3 emergency status at the United Nations are very welcome. However, when the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, and I visited the Central African Republic last month, it was clear that instability there affects people not only in that country but in South Sudan, Cameroon, the DRC and others in the region. Will the UK continue to argue for an extension of the level 3 emergency status and the European mission until there is enough stability to conduct elections and secure proper development and progress?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

First, I pay tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, and my noble friend Lady Berridge in continuing to bring these issues before the House. We fully support the extension of the EUFOR mandate, which currently runs until the end of March. The intention is that, by that time, MINUSCA will be up to its full complement of peacekeeping forces and civilian support staff. At that stage, they should take full control. The noble Lord mentioned elections: that is clearly a matter for President Samba-Panza to implement. I know that she is working as hard as she can to get the elections in place.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, first, can my noble friend confirm that the UN peacekeepers are briefed not to hesitate to act in compliance with their mandate in rapid response to outbreaks of violence against civilians, establishing that they and not the militias enforce law and order in Bangui? Secondly, can she confirm that the warring parties and their leaders will be held accountable for any crimes that they commit and are on notice that incitement to violence—and violence itself—will be prosecuted?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

First, the conduct of MINUSCA troops falls under the United Nations rules of engagement, which are covered by international humanitarian law. In the first instance, it is for the country which sent the troops there to hold those people to account, but the United Nations as a whole makes sure there is no impunity. I think that covers my noble friend’s second question. Where people transgress, impunity should not prevail and President Samba-Panza is trying to enforce her own legal systems, locally, to ensure there is no impunity there either.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

My Lords, children are bearing the brunt of the insecurity and lawlessness in the Central African Republic. UNICEF has said that children are in desperate need of protection at this time and in danger of being forgotten by the world. Will the Minister tell the House what, if anything, is being done to make the CAR a priority, especially when the security of innocent people continues to deteriorate, despite the deployment of a UN peacekeeping mission?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is right to focus on the lack of security for children. Of course, across the region there is a history of the abduction of children and their use as child soldiers. What I can say is that we remain the third largest bilateral provider of humanitarian aid in CAR, having given £30 million in direct humanitarian assistance to the Government and to refugees since the crisis began.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, there are of course no fully functioning police, courts or prisons in Central African Republic. The interim President, Catherine Samba-Panza, has heard of the UK’s wonderful work on security sector reform in Sierra Leone and has specifically asked the United Kingdom whether it will provide such support to CAR. Will Her Majesty’s Government consider offering such support?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, when the President made her address to the UNGA in September, she clearly set out her ambitions. Shortly thereafter, the security problems in the area increased. I think we should give all the support we can to her and her initiatives on security and imposing the rule of law. She has a tough task ahead. However, the help we are giving through MINUSCA means that we are ensuring that trained people are there to assist with the security of that region.

[The Lord Bishop of Norwich]

My Lords, given the widespread violation of both women and children in this tragic conflict, will the Minister indicate whether there are ways in which the Government could extend the success of the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative to the Central African Republic?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The right reverend Prelate makes a very important point. The work done by my noble friends in the Foreign Office and DfID this summer is bearing good results but we need to be able to take those further forward. I listened to what he said and I will certainly take his views back to the FCO.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, in this volatile situation in the Central African Republic, there clearly needs to be stability before progress can be made. Will the United Kingdom Government support security sector reform, with, in particular, advice from DfID on the development of national and local policing standards?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, of course we will listen to any requests made by the President for technical assistance. As the noble Lord will know, that can be done through the United Nations. Certainly at the moment MINUSCA, as a peacekeeping force, is concentrating on securing Bangui and the immediate area. Until that is done, it is difficult to go further outside Bangui to provide any assistance there. DfID will be doing all it can through delivering its humanitarian aid to provide the kind of technical assistance that is appropriate in those circumstances. The first objective, though, has to be to secure the region, which has been so troubled.

[Baroness Jenkin of Kennington (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, drew attention to the 2.3 million children who have been affected by the violence in this country. Will my noble friend join me in paying tribute to UNICEF and the other NGOs that are providing humanitarian assistance, despite unprecedented attacks against the humanitarian workers?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I join my noble friend in that with great pleasure. I ought to declare a past interest, of which I am proud, which is that I used to be a trustee of UNICEF. It is one of many organisations that perform valiant work and without them I have no doubt that Governments would find it almost impossible to deal with the humanitarian crises we face.

Middle East and North Africa

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 30th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, I of course add my congratulations to my noble friend Lord Risby on securing the debate today and on attracting such a significant audience, not only those who have taken part but those who have listened to the debate. It has been wide-ranging and I certainly am grateful for the important contributions from around the House.

North Africa and the Middle East face immense challenges. We have heard that in detail. As has been hinted at by colleagues around the House, a number of those issues merit their own debate: Syria’s horrific war; ISIL’s appalling atrocities and the refugee crisis that it has created; and the need for reconstruction in Gaza and a comprehensive solution to that. My noble friend Lady Hodgson of Abinger was right to remind us of the impact of violence and conflict on women and children. I agree with her that it is vital that we always take them into account in any and all negotiations we enter into to resolve conflict.

The region matters to the UK’s security and prosperity. It is crucial that we counter the threat from terrorist extremism, we build our energy security, as my noble friend Lord Balfe said, and we sustain and grow our bilateral trade, as my noble friend Lord Selsdon stressed. That already is worth about £35 billion annually. As my noble friend Lord Kirkwood said, it is important for us to do business even in difficult areas such as Iraq.

In the long term, our security and the security of the whole region of north Africa and the Middle East depends not only on managing the immediate crises and threats but also on tackling the grievances which the extremists exploit. These grievances—the deficits in political and economic governance—are embedded and well documented. We need to support those in the region who are pursuing political stability based on open, inclusive political systems and economies. This is not only about addressing threats: in the longer term we will need to support a more stable and economically successful region.

On a daily basis, we hear accounts of human rights abuses, including those against religious minorities of all backgrounds. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, reminded us of that in graphic detail. Let me be clear: the UK condemns in the strongest terms possible any instances where individuals are persecuted or made to leave their homes due to their religion or belief. We believe in the importance of fundamental freedoms and the need to tackle human rights abuses, not only to help end the cycle of violence but because they are important building blocks for a prosperous and stable society. My noble friend Lord Balfe asked about Iran and a particular letter from the TUC. I will shortly provide a full response to him, but I can say immediately that the UK strongly believes in the right of freedom of association, including the right to form and join trade unions.

We are proud in this country of remaining at the forefront of our humanitarian response in the region. Let me immediately tackle one point raised at the end of the debate—as the noble Lord, Lord Bach, said, controversially—about the Mare Nostrum policy which had been adopted a year ago by Italy with regard to the way in which it sent out a search-and-find operation using its navy across the Mediterranean. We made it clear today—my honourable friend Mr Brokenshire has said—that it is inconceivable to suggest that if a boat were in peril support would not be provided. It is a despicable mark of traffickers that any of this happens.

The people who are evil here are the traffickers who take people’s dignity, their money and their background. They give them false promises, they get them into debt, they hire a rusty bucket that they know cannot make the journey, and they load people at sea. Reports say that they give them a mobile phone so that they can phone the Italian navy. Whether that is true or not, this is a despicable trade and we need to unite in the fight against that and deal with the humanitarian aid, to which I know my Government are absolutely committed.

We remain at the forefront of the humanitarian response in the region. Our total humanitarian funding for Syria and the region is now £700 million, more than three times the size of our response to any other humanitarian crisis. This is making a real difference, providing shelter, blankets, and clothing for more than 300,000 people; water for up 1.5 million; and more than 5 million monthly food rations last year.

My noble friend Lady Berridge asked about refugees—the Yazidis, for example—being able to go back to their homes. She asks a broader question: what is it for all refugees to go home, some of whom are away from what they consider home for decades, and when they go back they have a difficulty recognising it? It is a decision they should be able to make, but a decision against the background of a peace and stability that we try to help to provide.

Efforts to address the region’s challenges have to be led principally by the regions of north Africa and the Middle East. But we do have an important role to play. I was deeply impressed today by the way in which so many Peers, including my noble friend Lady Falkner, the noble Lords, Lord Hylton, Lord Sacks and Lord Desai, and the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, addressed the philosophical background. How do we overcome extremism? Where has it come from? What challenges does it give us as individuals as well as societies? There has been the growth of Salafism—not the peaceful Salafism we see in Saudi Arabia, but the extreme, violent Salafism that has suddenly broken out elsewhere. I shall certainly take away with me the words of the noble Lord, Lord Sacks, that we need to let go of hate.

We need to support our partners to tackle conflict and better manage the threat that violent extremism poses to their people—and indeed to ours. We need to help them put in place what the Prime Minister has called the building blocks of open and inclusive societies: the rule of law, a free media, parliamentary reform, and the structural economic reforms to create growth and jobs. That is why we are continuing to reform and work on the conflict work with the Arab partnership and the Government’s conflict pool. That is why we are working closely with international partners, including key partners in the region. My noble friend Lady Berridge asked whether we have the skills for that and asked what training we are doing. With regard to staff, the FCO holds a one-day freedom of religion or belief training course every three months. It is open to all government staff. Since January 2013, of the 107 attendees, one-third have come from other government departments, including DfID and MoD.

My noble friend Lord Sheikh was right to describe the historical context in which all this has developed, as indeed was the noble Lord, Lord Weidenfeld. It is important to hear, from those who have lived it, what that history is. It gives it extra vibrancy. The noble Lords, Lord Bach and Lord Anderson, reminded us that the Arab spring started in Tunisia four years ago. Since then the country has indeed made striking process with the development of the political systems needed to bring longer-term stability. I echo the Foreign Secretary’s congratulations to the Tunisian Government and people on the legislative elections held there last Sunday. However, success is fragile and needs continued support. We will continue to provide that support in a number of ways.

It is important that, throughout this, when we see successes we continue to support those who are still facing severe challenges and finding it difficult to move forward. My noble friend Lord Risby referred to Algeria. He rightly mentioned the work that we are doing in partnership with Algeria on several issues. I pay tribute to his successful work as the Prime Minister’s envoy for economic partnership with Algeria. We want to keep improving our co-operation with Algeria across a range of interests: security, defence, trade, prosperity, English language and higher education.

Libya, of course, continues to have difficulties. We want to continue working with our international partners to support the Libyan people. As an important first step, we need an inclusive political settlement. At the moment it is in great difficulty, but the Prime Minister’s envoy to the Libyan political transition, Jonathan Powell, is working with the UN special representative on this.

Several noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Stone of Blackheath, referred to Egypt. I am grateful to him for bringing out the aspects that he did. It remains an important and influential country in the region and we clearly want it to succeed. We continue to provide practical and serious support to help it achieve a more prosperous and democratic future. We are working in partnership with reformers and others to reduce the economic difficulties and to tackle the immediate security threats. We are Egypt’s largest foreign investor. To foster Egypt’s development, we want to continue our support beyond technical reform assistance, to education, research and scholarships.

However, at the same time, we are urging Egypt’s leaders to implement the rights contained in Egypt’s constitution, including protecting the right to freedom of expression and association, and to lead the country towards more open and democratic governance, underpinned by strong and accountable institutions, as the noble Lord explained in his speech. We will speak up on cases that threaten these principles, whether it is mass death penalties in Minya, the prosecution of journalists, the detention of people engaging in peaceful political expression, or restrictions on NGO freedoms.

I turn to the Gulf, where the UK enjoys deep relationships based on our shared background in the area over the years. More than 160,000 British people currently call the Gulf home. It is one of our largest global export markets, and Gulf states continue to invest heavily in the UK. We work with our allies on a wide range of vital issues, from energy security to defence, with UK assets stationed in the region and providing military training expertise. We value enormously our close work with Gulf partners on many of the challenges that I have mentioned. The noble Lord, Lord Judd, referred to the difficulties in this area. My noble friend Lord Lamont talked about individuals and funding in Qatar. I will come to that shortly. My noble friend Lord Avebury and the noble Lord, Lord Soley, spoke about Bahrain.

My noble friend Lord Lamont asked about the funding of extremist groups in the Gulf states and what the Governments are doing. I can say that we welcome the steps that the Gulf Governments are taking to address the threat, but we are encouraging much greater progress on that to prevent terrorist financing from the individuals. I know that my noble friend is not saying that the Governments are doing the funding; the difficulty is preventing the individuals. It is important that legislative vehicles are put in place to prevent those transfers of funds. We have what is called an “honest and robust” conversation; I have taken part in one, and I can say that it is both honest and, certainly, robust.

On international affairs, yesterday my right honourable friend the Prime Minister met the Emir of Qatar. They discussed the role that both countries are playing in the coalition to tackle ISIL. In particular, the Prime Minister welcomed the recent legislation passed in Qatar to prevent terrorist funding and looked forward to the swift implementation of these new measures. They also agreed that both countries should do more to share information on matters of concern. The noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, also raised that.

My noble friend Lord Avebury and the noble Lord, Lord Soley, raised the issue of Bahrain where human rights defenders have played a brave role. I welcome the announcement by His Majesty of the legislative elections on 22 November. It is unfortunate that the opposition al-Wefaq has decided not to participate. We are certainly supportive of the reforms under way in Bahrain. We commend the steps taken by the Government there to implement the recommendations set out in the independent commission of inquiry. As outlined in our recent human rights case study report on Bahrain, progress has been made in a number of areas, but there is more to be done. We shall keep up the pressure.

Two areas attracted the most attention of noble Lords—for natural reasons of security and interest of this House. First, I turn to the situation we face across Iraq and Syria. We know from the past few months how desperate the situation has been for those living there as they face an enemy which knows no shame, no morality and no religion in the way in which it indiscriminately murders, beheads and crucifies people in its way. My noble friend Lady Falkner tried to give a background as to why it is not Islam we should blame for this. I appreciate the thoughtful way in which she presents her views; they are always a pleasure to hear.

ISIL fighters have carried out appalling atrocities. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people and they operate freely in much of Syria and Iraq, posing a threat to the UK and to the stability of the wider region. My noble friend Lady Nicholson said that they should not be able to have impunity—they should not get away with it. Yesterday, I gave a speech at a meeting at which we were talking about international humanitarian law. I agree with her that impunity is not something we should have as a resource so that, if there is a difficulty, we can let people get away with it. Where there is potential genocide of the Yazidis, we have a long-standing commitment to the importance of accountability. We welcome the commitment of Prime Minister al-Abadi to holding to account those responsible for any atrocities. We look forward to supporting any work which sees those commitments translated into action. We are a strong supporter of the International Criminal Court but any decision to involve the ICC must be made on the basis of whether the court would prove to be an effective means of bringing the perpetrators of those atrocities to justice.

Throughout the difficulties in Syria and Iraq, we have made it clear that air strikes alone will not defeat ISIL but they—and other actions that we have been taking—show our resolve to degrade and ultimately to defeat ISIL. We will proceed carefully, working in lockstep with our partners to deliver a comprehensive plan. We are taking military action in Iraq and, along with other noble Lords, I pay tribute to our superb Armed Forces who put themselves in harm’s way to keep us safe. We support air strikes in Syria conducted by the United States and our Gulf allies. We heard from several noble Lords, including my noble friends Lady Nicholson and Lord Kirkwood, and the noble Lords, Lord Kalms and Lord Judd, about these matters. I was intrigued that my noble friend Lord Kirkwood made it clear that we need to concentrate on commercial engagement as part of the solution to the problem of stability. He asked why we do not have an Iraqi business group to lead commercial engagement with Iraq. British business is engaging in Iraq and there is some notable success despite the difficult environment. As my noble friend knows, earlier this year the Prime Minister appointed my noble friend Lady Nicholson as trade envoy to Iraq. I have never doubted either her courage or her determination to achieve success.

My noble friend Lord Kirkwood also asked about visas, which were referred to obliquely by one or two other noble Lords. We opened a visa application centre in Baghdad in 2013 and have opened mobile centres in Erbil and Basra, which means that applicants no longer have to travel to Oman to obtain those visas. However, I appreciate that some individuals still face considerable security problems and difficulties in getting the relevant documents.

My noble friend Lord Kirkwood asked whether we agreed with his analysis of the new Iraqi Government of al-Abadi being more inclusive, and said that we should support that. I absolutely agree with him. Al-Abadi has shown his willingness to include significant appointments from the country’s main Shia, Sunni and Kurdish communities. That is most welcome. He has committed to reforms, including decentralising power, reforming and restructuring the security forces and improving relations with Iraq’s neighbours. However, I have no illusions. This is an encouraging start but we have a great struggle ahead in which we need to maintain the good will of the British public. When we had a Statement on this matter a couple of weeks ago, I spoke of a time when the red-top newspapers no longer have this issue at the top of their reports and when the news bulletins about it on the radio and on Twitter start to decline. We do not need to give publicity to ISIL but we do need to strengthen the resolve of our colleagues around our country that we are doing the right thing in undermining ISIL and, ultimately, defeating it for the security of that area and for that of our own country.

I wish to refer briefly to Turkey as the noble Lords, Lord Anderson and Lord Bach, and my noble friend Lord Balfe mentioned very properly the role that Turkey has played and can play. We are very grateful to Turkey for its humanitarian effort. Over the past 48 hours it has been working out in a helpful way how to adjust that. Clearly, it is a crucial partner for all of us in our counterterrorism work. I know that Turkey has difficulties with the Kurdish region because of the PPK issue but it is working as hard as it can to be a very effective partner in the degrading and defeat of ISIL. The noble Lord has been to Lebanon and he was right to remind us of that country, which has borne so much of the brunt of the humanitarian aid. What a brave country. It has absorbed people who now form a great proportion of its population. We stand firmly by Lebanon’s side and offer full support, assistance and training to the Lebanese armed forces in their struggle.

My noble friend Lord Avebury mentioned Yemen. I pay tribute to our embassy staff and FCO staff who travel there on a regular basis to give assistance in that country. They face great personal danger and we are grateful for all that they do. My noble friend is right to point out the danger to human rights.

Noble Lords have referred to Iran. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, reminded us that we should not forget about Iran when we are concentrating on ISIL. My noble friend Lord Lamont asked what would happen if a deal with Iran fails? We will not let it fail. I suggest that he looks in detail at the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Deech.

Obviously, we have discussed the Middle East peace process in detail before. We had contributions today from my noble friends Lord Risby, Lady Warsi, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, Lord Cope of Berkeley, Lady Tonge, Lord Leigh of Hurley and Lord Dykes, and from the noble Lords, Lord Sacks, Lord Mitchell, Lord Turnberg, Lord Weidenfeld, Lord Kalms and Lord Bach. The noble Lord, Lord Hylton, provided us with a list of practical suggestions about how to rebuild Gaza. I would like to reflect on that further.

Noble Lords asked whether our policy on Gaza and Palestine has changed. Our policy is clear: we support a negotiated settlement leading to a safe and secure Israel, living alongside a viable sovereign Palestinian state. We are urging both parties to show leadership and a commitment to return to dialogue. I realise of course that the dialogue has broken down; the terrorist attacks in Sinai on 24 October have prevented that dialogue. However, we are making every effort to ensure that that is recommenced as soon as possible. The process has not failed; it will continue.

We are also urging both parties to avoid all actions that undermine the prospect of peace. That is why we were particularly disturbed when Israel brought forward advanced plans for 1,060 new housing units in east Jerusalem. We consider that to be an ill judged and ill timed decision, which makes it harder to achieve a two-state solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital. Such announcements make it more difficult for Israel’s friends to defend it against accusations that it is not serious about peace.

The EU sanctions remain in place. I was asked about those by my noble friend Lady Warsi. We have consistently made it clear through the EU that there will be consequences to further announcements on settlement. Discussions are under way in Brussels at this moment on what further measures the EU could take to discourage any further settlement expansion, including in Givat Hamatos, E1 and Har Homa. The EU is working closely with other member states to that end.

A one-off recognition of the state of Palestine is not something that we wish to pursue at this stage. We are saying clearly—as I did last week and the week before—that negotiation is the way forward. We want to recognise Palestine, but we want to do so when there has been an agreement with both sides that we end up with two states that can live alongside each other. In the mean time, it is important that the agreements reached so far in Egypt are being put in place. I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Hilton, that the fishing limit is indeed in place.

I know that we will return to this subject in depth again and again. I will be debating it with many colleagues off the Floor of the House in another venue next Tuesday morning and I am looking forward to that.

Iran: Nuclear Programme

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 30th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Deech]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of progress in preventing the development of nuclear weapons by Iran.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK, like other E3+3 members, is committed to preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Under the E3+3’s interim deal with Iran, the most concerning elements of Iran’s nuclear programme were frozen. The E3+3 is currently negotiating a comprehensive agreement to address fully its concerns about Iran’s programme. Good progress has been made, but reaching a final agreement with Iran remains challenging.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, but does she know that the centrifuges and the nuclear structure of Iran remain intact? Does she agree that sanctions were lifted too early? The threat remains. Will she ensure that the deal ends all the means of delivery and production and ensures appropriate inspection by IAEA? Will she make representations to the French Government over their co-operation with Iran in uranium enrichment through the joint stock company Sofidif?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness goes to the core of the issue. If there is an agreement, on what basis will it be? We are working towards an agreement by 24 November. There will not be a relaxation of the sanctions unless that agreement is in place. We are not proposing to make a blanket withdrawal of all sanctions on 24 November if there is an agreement then. We want a staged process, to see that the enrichment process is reduced and that Iran cannot move forward to being able to have a nuclear weapon. We are in continual discussions on that matter.

[Baroness Williams of Crosby (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that we have no interest in turning Iran into yet another failed state in the Middle East? Can she tell us whether the outstanding issues, made in a proposal by some experts in the United States, could be bundled together into what could be described as a cluster of issues, and that an extension for the next period should be invited while those issues are hammered out to the satisfaction of both sides?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend is right to draw attention to the importance of stability in the region and why these negotiations are so crucial. The position of the United Kingdom is that we aim to have an agreement in place by 24 November. If we were to talk about what we might do after that, we would be saying that we have no hope of delivery. We have hope.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not true that if Israel gave up its nuclear weapons, the Iranians would probably not wish to proceed to develop their own?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I find it difficult to get into the mind of one member of any other Government, let alone the minds of all members, and sometimes my own—I mean my own mind, of course. It is a serious question. Iran is a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaties; Israel is not.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Can the Minister tell the House whether the Government are satisfied that all parties to the interim agreement have implemented it correctly and in a verifiable manner? If her answer is positive—I believe that most observers think that they have—a situation where a final comprehensive agreement eluded the negotiators in November but a continuation of the interim agreement proved possible would be some way short of disastrous.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord has a deep understanding of the issue. Certainly, we know that that the progress that has been made so far has been positive and, it is true to say, delicate. We do not wish to predict that a failure to achieve a resolution on 24 November would lead to a complete breakdown. We do not think that that would be the case. We are still hopeful of an agreement by then. After all, the negotiations are being led by the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, and we know that we have confidence in her.

[Lord Dykes (LD)]

Meanwhile, what steps will my noble friend take to persuade her government colleagues and other leaders in the Middle East to restore the balance by insisting that Israel should now consider seriously reducing its nuclear arsenal and also subscribing to the non-proliferation treaty?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, although security in the region is a part of this question, any negotiations with Israel would at the moment not be on an effective basis, because clearly we have not yet resolved the matter of Iran’s position.

[Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)]

My Lords, in spite of the difficulties of any nuclear negotiations with Iran, does the Minister agree that we and the United States should nevertheless be ready to discuss with Iran the threat of ISIS that we both face?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we have a common interest with Iran and other actors in the region with regard to ISOL. It was important that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister met President Rouhani in New York. We must consider carefully how we may adopt common attitudes on ISOL and other issues in the region.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

We welcome from this side the meeting that the Prime Minister had with the president. Can the Minister tell us whether we have an ambassador in place in Tehran yet, or whether the British Council is back there yet? The sooner that that happens the better.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I agree entirely with the noble Lord that the sooner it happens, the better. We would like to re-establish the embassy and the visa system there. Clearly, noble Lords will know that the circumstances in which we had to leave the embassy mean that we have to renegotiate literally being able to refurbish the embassy and move back in. We are in active negotiations on that—as he says, the sooner the better for the return.

Nigeria: Boko Haram

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 30th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of recent developments in Nigeria, with particular reference to the terrorist activities of Boko Haram.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, Nigeria faces a serious threat from Boko Haram. We believe that more than 3,000 people have been killed by Boko Haram this year and more than 1.5 million people have been displaced. We are aware of reports that Nigerian authorities have agreed a ceasefire with Boko Haram and are in ongoing negotiations. We are also aware of reports of Boko Haram attacks since the ceasefire announcement. We monitor events closely.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that sympathetic reply. Is she aware that I have visited areas afflicted by Boko Haram and found that the scale of suffering to which she refers massively exceeds that reported by the media? For example, this year alone 2,000 women and girls have been abducted. In addition to the widely publicised kidnapping of the schoolgirls at Chibok, 173 teachers and hundreds of students, including Muslim students, have been slaughtered, and savage attacks on Christian communities continue to the present day. Despite reports of a peace agreement with Boko Haram, to which the Minister refers, local people do not believe that the federal and state authorities are sufficiently willing or able to stop Boko Haram’s reign of terror. Therefore, will Her Majesty’s Government make the strongest possible representation to the Government of Nigeria to do much more to implement effective policies to protect all its citizens from this escalating terrorism?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I agree entirely with the noble Baroness, to whom I pay tribute for her courageous work, not only in Nigeria but around the world. She is right: Boko Haram deliberately targets the weak and vulnerable, causing suffering in communities of differing faiths and ethnicities. It has no regard for human life. We are in continual discussion with the Nigerian authorities to press exactly as the noble Baroness says, and we give as much support as we can in intelligence matters.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, the Nigerian chief of defence staff, Alex Badeh, announced on 17 October a ceasefire agreement with Boko Haram. A little later, the presidential aide, Hassan Tukur, claimed that there was also an agreement to release the girls taken from Chibok. However, as my noble friend knows, since then all we have seen are many more girls being abducted. What action can the Government take to help galvanise the Nigerian authorities into some action to protect these schoolgirls from organised rape, forced conversion to Islam and mass murder? What specific action to protect the family members of the Nigerian security forces from reprisal acts can the Government help the Nigerians with? So far, some 7,000 have been killed in this manner.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, there were several important questions in there. At the core of what we do is the care we have for what might happen, not only to the Chibok girls but to others who have been seized. We are therefore most cautious in what we say in these matters. What I will say is that it is for the Nigerian authorities to resolve the matter. We will give the strongest support we can. Since the Prime Minister announced on 14 May that the UK would provide surveillance assets and intelligence expertise to help in the search for the Chibok girls, we have deployed Sentinel and Tornado GR4 aircraft with surveillance capabilities, and provided satellite imagery. We will do what we can.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister have any further knowledge of the discussions between Abubakar Shekau, the head of Boko Haram, and ISIL, and any further information on the fact that Boko Haram is beginning to occupy and hold territory in the same way as ISIL and call it an Islamic caliphate? Are our intelligence assets able to give us this sort of evidence, bearing in mind that a lot of politicians at federal and local level in Nigeria are helping Boko Haram, as are some in the police force?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord refers to some of the instabilities within the Nigerian system. Boko Haram’s affiliation to al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb justified the organisation’s inclusion on the UN’s al-Qaeda sanctions list on 22 May. Boko Haram has been proscribed under terrorism legislation in the UK since July 2013. With regard to the negotiations to which he refers, there is, clearly, no resolution yet and we know that there have been some confusing and confused reports in the press.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, the atrocities outlined to your Lordships’ House obviously require vehicles, ammunition, explosives and sophisticated weapons, which all require significant funding. Can my noble friend outline where Her Majesty’s Government believe Boko Haram is getting such funding and what efforts we are making, via the UN or with the Nigerian Government, to cut off its funds?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I mentioned earlier, we are in continuous discussion with the Nigerian Government to offer what assistance we can to prevent any further supply of materiel to Boko Haram. It is a very complex matter in an area that is certainly under the kind of attacks that happen without any warning, where whole areas are seized by Boko Haram and the Nigerian forces clearly have come under great stress.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

My Lords, reference has been made to the contents of the excellent Human Rights Watch report, which has described the violence and terror endured by girls and women held in Boko Haram camps. It described the shocking, appalling failure of the Nigerian Government to prevent these brutal abductions. What is the UK doing to press the Nigerian Government at last to: first, secure the release of the girls; secondly, make schools safe for girls; and, thirdly, ensure that there are medical and mental health services for the victims of abductions?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I think I may have addressed the first two questions—rather briefly, it is true. However, the noble Baroness raises a new point at the end with regard to what happens next. Let us focus first on the release, not only of the Chibok girls but of others. One would then need to see what their needs may be, what support needs to be given to them and their families, and which choices the girls may wish to make. I assure the noble Baroness that, through our DfID programme, we provide aid to the area to try to assist the society to grow and survive.

[The Lord Bishop of Lichfield]

My Lords, what does the Minister make of the claims recently made by journalists that the girls kidnapped by Boko Haram are being held as trophies for various tribal leaders, as is apparently common in these regions, and that they will be released as soon as some way is found to flatter these leaders?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have read those reports. Anyone who is kidnapped in any situation is a bargaining chip. The difficulty is knowing with whom one strikes the bargain and at what price for all.

[Lord St John of Bletso (CB)]

Does the Minister consider that the forthcoming elections on 14 February next year are a major contributing factor in the approach taken by the Nigerian Government to tackling this problem with Boko Haram?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to refer to the forthcoming elections. We continue to engage regularly with our counterparts in Nigeria to convey our expectation that the February presidential elections must be free, fair and peaceful. Security in elections can help to have security in a country.

UN Security Council

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 27th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what benefits being a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council brings to the people of the United Kingdom.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, the United Kingdom is in a privileged position to play an active role in maintaining international peace and security. We use this position to work hard towards constructive solutions to international crises, to promote British values and to confront threats to UK security. This gives us a positive impact on stability overseas, which directly affects the security and prosperity of the people of the UK.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Clearly membership is of use and value to our nation. In that case, and in the context of the national security strategy, have we looked in detail at what capabilities and attributes we need as a permanent member, bearing in mind that many countries feel they ought to be there? Does the Minister feel that the 14% cut in our defence budget since 2010 and the cut to our diplomatic capability enable us to continue in that position? Having mentioned the military, I am sure all of us want to express our admiration for the bravery and sense of duty of our men and women who have just finished 13 and a half years in Afghanistan.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I gladly add my words to that sentiment for our serving personnel now and in the past and, indeed, for the United Nations peacekeepers who come from around the world to carry out such difficult tasks. With regard to matters of defence spending and the calculation of how a contribution may be made, in looking at our participation in United Nations matters we take into account overall plans with regard to security at home, in NATO and overseas more broadly. That is part of the work that is done. On the second limb of his question regarding defence spending, we are committed to allocating 2% of GDP to defence and that will continue at least until the general election. After that, of course, there is another spending review.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the privileged status that permanent membership brings also carries a responsibility to have a leadership role among other nations and organisations? In the light of that, have Her Majesty’s Government carried out an assessment of what might happen to Britain’s privileged status if it were to withdraw from the European Union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is clear that at the formation of the United Nations, after the problems with the League of Nations, we were one of the major five states and therefore part of the permanent five members of the United Nations Security Council. We remain there and our position is strong. I do not see any future in discussing our removal. Indeed, the discussion in the United Nations area is about enlarging the Security Council. There is no threat to our membership that I can foresee now or in the future.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister, in the same sense in which she has just replied, confirm that there is no possibility that Britain could lose its place as a permanent member of the Security Council unless it developed suicidal tendencies? The charter makes it perfectly clear that you would have to change the wording to remove one member, and that could be done only if all five permanent members then ratified it. It is, therefore, up to us. As far as the qualifications for permanent membership are concerned, it might be useful to look at the report of the High-level Panel on Threats, Challenges and Change, which set out a long list of criteria which it believed any new permanent member ought to be able to fulfil before being accepted.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, who has great experience of these matters not only in the diplomatic field but because of his role in the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the United Nations. I was very glad last week to be invited to stand alongside the United Nations Association to celebrate its 69th birthday. He is right with regard to membership, and our position there is secure.

[Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)]

My Lords, the costs of UN membership are charged proportionately according to the size of a country’s population and national income. Will the Government make an equally strong song and dance about UN membership if fees go up, as they have done with the EU? Will we see members of the Minister’s party advocate withdrawal from the UN if they do?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, our position on the United Nations is something of which we are proud. We are proud that it works for peace and we are proud that we are part of the multicultural approach to resolving the world’s crises and the humanitarian efforts. We are going to stay there.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that if we are looking for benefits for the British people from international institutions we might invest more time and effort in developing our links with the Commonwealth, which contains 2.3 billion people who use English as their working language and most of the big growth markets of the future?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree with my noble friend about the importance of the Commonwealth. The main objectives of the Foreign Office are always to look at policy through the prism of security and prosperity. The Commonwealth is a crucial aspect of that.