European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Georgia) Order 2015

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 9th March 2015 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That the draft orders laid before the House on 13 January be approved.

Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 26 February.

Motions agreed.

European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Ukraine) Order 2015

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 26th February 2015 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That the Grand Commitee do consider the European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Ukraine) Order 2015.

Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments

Motion agreed.

European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Moldova) Order 2015

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 26th February 2015 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That the Grand Committee do consider the European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Moldova) Order 2015.

Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments

Motion agreed.

European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Georgia) Order 2015

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 26th February 2015 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That the Grand Committee do consider the European Union (Definition of Treaties) (Association Agreement) (Georgia) Order 2015.

Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall also speak to the EU definition of treaties association agreement orders for Moldova and Ukraine.

Today we are considering three draft orders that relate to association agreements between the European Union, the European Atomic Energy Community and their member states, and three countries: namely, Georgia, the Republic of Moldova and Ukraine. The purpose of these draft orders is to declare the agreements to be EU treaties, as defined under Section 1(3) of the European Communities Act 1972. The draft orders we debate today are a necessary step towards UK ratification of these agreements.

Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine have all chosen to pursue closer ties with the European Union. These countries have decided of their own free will to sign association agreements in order to support their own reform programmes and to seek closer political association and economic integration with the European Union. We fully support the sovereign choices of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine and strongly believe that no third country should have a veto over their decisions.

These association agreements, with their deep and comprehensive free trade areas, are wide ranging. They provide strong mechanisms through which to deliver security, democracy and prosperity. They commit Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine to deep and meaningful reforms, to align more closely their legislation to EU norms, focusing on support to core reforms, including economic recovery and growth, good governance, improved respect for rule of law, and human rights. They will allow for the closer integration of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine with the EU and will promote increased prosperity and stability in the European neighbourhood. That is not only in the interests of those three countries, but is clearly in the interest of the EU, including the United Kingdom.

The ratification of these three agreements is not an end in itself. They form part of a process to drive forward continuous reform in all three countries. The European Commission will prepare annual progress reports to reflect each country’s strengths and highlight areas for improvement. The scope and nature of the agreements are similar. That is why we are considering the draft orders together today. However, we should bear in mind that each country faces different pressures and has its own distinct priorities for its relationship with the EU.

The first order before us today, which I formally moved, relates to Georgia. Georgia has watched closely as events have unfolded in Ukraine. Both the Georgian Government and public have drawn parallels with the 2008 conflict with Russia. The Georgian Government are extremely concerned about the situation in Ukraine and its implications for their country, and have lobbied EU member states actively to ratify Georgia’s association agreement.

We remain clear, however, about the importance of Georgia continuing with reforms and fulfilling its commitments for signature of its agreement. Strengthened respect for democracy, human rights and the rule of law are part of the process of moving closer to the EU. While not without setbacks, Georgia’s progress in the areas of democratisation and economic reform over the last 10 years has been impressive. The agreement will further help to encourage Georgia to drive forward with genuine commitment and energy the reforms necessary for the country’s long-term security and prosperity.

The European path has widespread support across Georgian society and the country’s main political parties. Since Georgia’s parliamentary and presidential elections in 2012 and 2013, which witnessed the first peaceful transfer of power in Georgia—a rarity in the former Soviet space—the Georgian coalition Government have remained committed to and have continued on the pro-EU trajectory set by the previous Government.

The wider south Caucasus region is of strategic importance to the UK and the EU. Continued stability in this region is also essential for the UK’s prosperity and energy security goals. It is therefore strongly in our interests that Georgia continues along its EU path. Since the brief Russia-Georgia war in 2008, the EU has played an important role in conflict resolution through the EU special representative for the south Caucasus and EU monitoring mission that provides an effective monitoring presence along the administrative boundary lines between Georgia and its breakaway regions. Closer political association and greater economic integration into the EU is the most effective way to promote reform and modernisation in Georgia, as well as contributing to conflict resolution.

I turn to the order relating to Moldova. Moldova’s parliamentary elections of 30 November 2014 illustrate Moldova’s continued commitment to democracy. A new coalition Government were appointed by the Moldovan Parliament on 18 February. We hope that they will govern in an inclusive and accountable manner and make early progress with the implementation of Moldova’s association agreement. It will be important to maintain, even speed up, the progress that Moldova has made since 2009 in administrative reform, independence of the judiciary, combating discrimination, and ensuring that democratic processes and respect for human rights are more deeply embedded in Moldovan society and more able to resist pressure from destabilising outside forces.

The protracted conflict in Transnistria remains unresolved, largely because of the malign role of Russia. Despite attempts by the European institutions, EU member states and the Government of Moldova, the de facto authorities in Tiraspol refused to engage meaningfully in negotiations over the association agreement. Nevertheless, an increasing share—now more than half—of Transnistrian exports go to the EU. Many businesses in the Transnistria breakaway region have a strong interest in positive relations with Chisinau and the EU, and could provide a positive influence for change.

Before I progress to the order which relates to Ukraine, it may be for the convenience of the Committee if I update it on the latest situation there, before saying more about the Ukraine association agreement. This is not a debate about the situation in Ukraine, but I appreciate that this is a moving picture, and Ministers have a duty to inform the House.

As the Committee will know, an agreement on a ceasefire was reached in Minsk on 12 February. It includes provisions embodied in an original ceasefire agreement also agreed in Minsk in September 2014. These measures include the withdrawal of heavy weapons to agreed distances from the line of contact, and the withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine. The 12 February agreement also envisages fresh elections under Ukrainian law in the breakaway, separatist-held areas and for constitutional reform to bring a more decentralised system of government in Ukraine.

The Minsk agreements were endorsed by UN Security Council Resolution 2202 on 17 February. This underlines the need for all signatory parties to implement their obligations. This resolution will allow the Security Council to monitor that closely.

There must be a particular focus on ensuring that Russia and the separatists honour their commitments. In the weeks that preceded the Minsk agreement of 12 February, Russia stepped up military support to the separatists. It transferred heavy weaponry and maintains hundreds of regular soldiers, including special forces, in Ukraine. Even after the ceasefire came into effect on 15 February, separatist and Russian forces continued to mount attacks on Ukrainian positions, including in the town of Debaltseve, an important road and rail hub, which finally fell on 18 February.

The consequences of Russia’s actions in Ukraine have been devastating. Since fighting started, we have seen more than 5,000 dead, tens of thousands injured and more than 1.5 million people forced to take refuge elsewhere. It is Russia, through its support for the separatists, which is responsible for this and Russia which must be held to account. As the Prime Minister made clear at the European Council on 12 February, Europe must send a clear message to President Putin that until Russia changes its behaviour, sanctions will remain in place. Russia must recognise that Ukraine’s independence and territorial integrity should be respected and that Ukraine should be allowed to make its own sovereign decisions. The association agreement is just such a sovereign decision.

For Ukraine, the association agreement represents a very clear public commitment, by both the EU and Ukraine, to a deep relationship and close co-operation and to the continuation of much needed deep-rooted reforms. Although the provisional application of the deep and comprehensive free trade area has been postponed to 1 January 2016, the provisional application of important areas such as the rule of law and the fight against crime and corruption came into force on 1 November 2014.

The proposal to delay, at the request of President Poroshenko, the provisional application of the deep and comprehensive free trade area of the association agreement until 1 January 2016 was done in the spirit of peacebuilding, giving Ukraine and Russia time to discuss their economic relationship. The proposal offered a pragmatic solution to address Russia’s stated concerns about the deep and comprehensive free trade area, while leaving the text unchanged. In the mean time, the EU will continue the application of autonomous trade measures for the benefit of Ukraine until the end of 2015, granting Ukrainian exporters continued preferential access to EU markets without waiting for the trade provisions under the association agreement to enter into force.

These association agreements will be supported by continuing financial and technical support from the European Union on strengthening the rule of law, advancing judicial reforms, fighting corruption, ensuring respect for fundamental rights and freedoms, and strengthening democratic institutions. The EU provides funding to Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova under the European Neighbourhood Instrument. The Commission currently plans to allocate at the minimum €2.1 billion and, depending on the pace of reform, could allocate up to €2.6 billion to support Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine between 2014 and 2020. This is a significant increase on the previous period for all three countries.

In conclusion, we firmly believe that the implementation of the association agreements will bring mutual benefits to Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine, and to the EU. We should all be clear, however, that this will not happen overnight. It is a complex region—we have all noticed that and debated it. There are no easy solutions to the crisis in Ukraine. Georgia and Moldova both have protracted conflicts and disputed territories within their borders. The association agreements have the potential to have a positive impact in the region and on these conflicts as Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine become more economically successful and politically stable. But we, along with the EU and other partners, will need to stay closely involved to ensure that these agreements fulfil that potential and bring maximum benefits to the region, which is in all our interests. I commend the draft orders to the Committee and I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

We cannot have a situation where Russia tries to exercise a veto over the actions of its neighbours, whoever they may be, or to threaten consequences similar to those that have been visited upon Ukraine. It is on that basis that we support these orders.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am grateful for the support that all noble Lords have given to this order and, I hope, by implication to the other two orders that have been debated with it. In particular, I echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord Bach, about the demonstration of experience and expertise by Peers, whether they be members of the Council of Europe or have served as Members of the European Parliament, or indeed have been long-term Members of this House and have participated in our Select Committee work. It is important that this House is able to demonstrate that sort of expertise.

It is important that we heard from the Opposition their strong support for this process whereby sovereign countries are able to make their own decisions about where their future may lie, and to do so in a constructive way. All those three countries need to pursue these objectives in a constructive manner. I agree with every single word uttered by the noble Lord, Lord Bach, today, and I will address the two questions that he posed.

The people of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine have made a clear choice for a future closely aligned with the EU. I will tackle head-on the questions that were put about whether or not the EU botched, as my noble friend Lord Balfe put it—rather inelegantly, perhaps—the negotiations over the association agreement with Ukraine. It is not the EU that has caused this crisis. As the noble Lord, Lord Bach, pointed out, negotiations with Ukraine started as long ago as 2007 and Yanukovych was certainly part of them, with support from the Ukraine Government of which he was the head. It was really only when at the beginning of last year Russia woke up to the fact that the implications of this might be something that it did not like—as other noble Lords have pointed out, Russia appears to have the view that it still has the right to control countries that are in fact sovereign but which perhaps used to be within its remit—that Yanukovych seemed to take a different point of view and we entered into the period of Euromaidan and the demonstrations by the people of Ukraine, who said, “We want this association agreement. We want a closer association with the EU. That is where our future lies, and you as the leader of our Government should take notice of us”. It was his failure to take notice of the will of the people, of an elected Government, that meant that he fled the country and has not yet returned. Whether he seeks to return is a matter for him. I am not too sure quite what the Kiev Government would think of that but that is his decision.

Therefore, I am clear that Ukraine has taken a decision that is right for a sovereign Government to take and that the EU has taken a measured course. Indeed, in opening I made it clear that President Poroshenko has asked us to delay the implementation of the deep and comprehensive free trade areas specifically, so that negotiations can continue and so that Russia can become more accustomed to what the implications might be for it—to try to allay suspicions. Overall, with regard to Georgia and Moldova, I will say also that the ambition with their agreements is the same as that for Ukraine. They are aiming to deepen their political and economic relations with the EU and to integrate them gradually into the largest single market in the world.

Several noble Lords raised the question of integration with the EU: how, when, should they, or should they not? It is quite right, as my noble friend Lord Balfe said, that there was at one time a particularly large expansion in the number of accession countries to the EU. According to the EU treaties, any European state which respects the EU’s values and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union—that is a matter of fact in the treaties. However, I say now, as I have said in the past, that the UK Government support the Eastern Partnership countries—at the moment, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine; we just referred to the association agreements with the latter three—as possible EU countries in the future. The stress is on “the future”, because, as other noble Lords have pointed out, it is important that those three countries meet the necessary criteria. Other noble Lords here have painted a picture of life in those countries that shows that they have a long way to go before they have an independent judiciary, human rights, and a way of tackling corruption, which they need before they can come into the category of accession countries. I am aware that there is no current consensus on the potential candidacy of those countries among the member states. However, it is right that those countries should be able to look at the European treaties and consider that they can work towards that. It is up to them whether they reach the standards, and up to the current members as to whether they will then welcome them into the EU.

The association agreements we have considered today are of course not ends in themselves—that is something that my noble friend Lady Ludford referred to and which I will come to in a moment. Much work needs to be done on domestic reforms across all three countries, and the EU is providing assistance on strengthening the rule of law, advancing judicial reforms, fighting corruption, ensuring respect for fundamental rights and freedoms, and strengthening democratic institutions. I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Bach, that we play a prominent role in that and will continue to do so. In opening I gave some information about the amount of money—significant sums of euros—that will be going to those countries to assist them in the future. We will have a role, certainly, in giving advice on the humanitarian issues through DfID. I will certainly contribute my views on human rights to many; for example, at the meeting of the Human Rights Council in Geneva next week. We will all as Ministers and officials play an important part in ensuring that those three countries are aware of and can work towards the standards they need to achieve if they are properly to implement the association agreements and ultimately work towards membership of the European Union if that is what their Governments continue to wish to do.

Therefore, all that will take time and money—I refer to questions from noble Lords and my noble friends with regard to that. One of the main points was put very clearly: that we must be sure that we have complementarity between the work of the European Union and that of the Council of Europe. My noble friend, whom I reappointed to the Council of Europe, is sitting here. One of the things that must impress us all is that when the delegations go to the Council of Europe, it is the Members of this House who keep it going, do the work and the chairing and who are the rapporteurs. I am certainly very proud of that.

I assure my noble friends Lord Balfe, Lady Ludford and Lord Dundee that there is a complementarity and not a crossover. As my noble friend Lady Ludford said, it is not a competition. It is important that there is no double-handling, as my noble friend Lord Dundee said, and that we do not want to reinvent the wheel. The association agreements can proceed constructively and do something that the Council of Europe cannot, which is important. They give hope of a closer political and economic future for these countries, which only the European Union can provide. That complementarity must be key to the successful progress of these countries when they apply the benefits, as I hope they will be, of these association agreements.

Looking forward again, both my noble friends Lord Bowness and Lord Balfe raised the issue of frozen conflicts—Georgia and Moldova, and now of course the question about what happens with the eastern areas of Ukraine. The three association agreements extend to all sovereign lands, even if one does not have control over parts of one’s sovereign territory. The agreements extend to areas of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine that are currently outwith the effective control of the sovereign Governments of those three countries, although the provisions of the agreements will not of course in practice apply to those territories until such time as the Governments of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine can secure compliance with their requirements.

The provisions for the deep and comprehensive free trade areas require the Governments of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine to transpose and enforce EU standards in a number of sectors, including phytosanitary standards. That is important, otherwise trade will simply not be trusted by other partners. However, effective enforcement is not currently possible in the breakaway regions. Moldovan companies currently export to the EU using a system of autonomous trade preferences, to which Transnistrian companies also have access. The EU has extended the system of autonomous trade preferences to Moldova as a whole until the end of 2015, ensuring that those Transnistrian businesses will not immediately lose their current access to the single market. In answer to the question asked by my noble friend, the EU will need to reflect on how to handle this issue after the end of 2015. He raised a crucial point. At the same time, it should give the Transnistrians food for thought, given that over half of Transnistrian exports now go to the EU.

My noble friend Lady Ludford asked specifically about the procedural aspect, referring in particular to the Explanatory Memorandum, and which obligations are implemented and how. The European Communities Act 1972 provides the mechanism for implementing in UK law our obligations under an EU treaty, which is what the agreements become under these orders. That is the way in which the provisions of the agreement are given direct effect in UK law. Not every provision in the agreement would need to be the subject of legislation, but where we need legislation, which some parts may do, the order gives provision to that effect in UK law. This is about providing that kind of consistency.

My noble friend Lady Ludford also raised the important point about our view of the position of other EU member states with regard to sanctions and to the issue of Russian influence. EU member states have various degrees of economic and political interaction with Russia. We have seen that because of the energy aspect, let alone because of anything else. Despite this, the EU has developed a package of robust sanctions. As far as I am aware from the discussions that have been happening as recently as yesterday, the unanimity on that still holds and there is a determination about that. However, my noble friend is right to say that we need to be watchful and to show that the EU remains united. Russia needs to understand that, particularly before we reach the European Council on 20 March, when one would expect the current sanctions to be rolled over. If there are any breaches of the ceasefire, that would of course be taken into consideration and we should be ready for further sanctions at that point. The impact on Russia should be clear.

Ukraine

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 23rd February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours, and at his request, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, on 9 February, the European Union Foreign Affairs Council discussed Ukraine and reconfirmed its decision to apply additional sanctions on a number of Russian individuals. The informal European Council on 12 February also discussed Ukraine and welcomed cautiously the implementation agreement reached in Minsk. The Foreign Secretary has travelled extensively around the EU in recent months. He has raised Russia and Ukraine consistently with his EU counterparts.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, does the Minister recall that on 10 February she told the House that it was up to each individual NATO country to decide whether to supply lethal aid and that it was not the UK’s intention to do so? Is she aware that three days later, 20 armoured vehicles arrived in Ukraine, which President Poroshenko said would be armed and sent to the front to fight? This sale was organised by the Disposal Services Authority of the Ministry of Defence. How does she reconcile that?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am able to reconcile it, but it is still a matter of concern and the noble Lord is absolutely right to raise it. Export licences were agreed in December for the sale of 75 Saxon light-armoured personnel carriers. However, they were not carrying weaponry when we sent them. The exports were assessed fully against the consolidated EU and national arms export licensing criteria. I am aware of the report to which the noble Lord has accurately referred. Twenty vehicles have so far been delivered to the Ukrainian MoD. We are reviewing the licence against the consolidated criteria under the circumstances. The circumstances appear to be that an off-the-cuff record was made by one person to the effect that this non-lethal equipment would be retro-fitted and used. The circumstances in which we supplied it fully kept to the commitment I gave to this House. Our subsequent action is, again, fully in accord with the commitment I gave to this House.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)]

My Lords, will my noble friend tell the House what her assessment is of the EU Select Committee’s report on relations with Russia and its principal recommendation that the European Council should take a more proactive line in determining that relationship? Will she also comment on whether we will have an opportunity to have a debate in this House before we rise? There will be a long break, during which we will not be able to do any scrutiny of Russia and Ukraine, so may we have a debate before we rise?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I have to take refuge in the usual response that others would make when I was Chief Whip and say that it is not my decision; it is for the usual channels. However, my noble friend has raised a very strong point. Of course, it was she who led the House in a debate on Russia and relations with it back in October, in which so many noble Lords took part. On Friday last week, a significant report was published by the EU Sub-Committee on External Affairs. It took the committee seven months of hard work to produce it and I would not wish to dismiss it in the few minutes we have left; it deserves very serious consideration. The report makes it clear that the most important miscalculations were those made by President Yanukovych and President Putin in failing to foresee how the Ukrainian public would react to Yanukovych’s last-minute refusal to sign Ukraine’s association agreement with the EU. We should not fall into the trap of trying to blame ourselves for Russia’s invasion and destabilisation of another sovereign European state.

My noble friend has made an important point. The European Council will meet on 20 March. It is vital that it should roll over the tier 3 sanctions at that point and that, just as it has been, it takes a leadership role and has ready other sanctions to put in place if the current ceasefire disintegrates.

[Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with the statement in the EU sub-committee’s report that cuts in Russian experts at the FCO and less emphasis on analysis led to a misreading of the depth of Russian hostility to EU plans for a closer relationship with Ukraine? Does the Minister also agree with the wider criticism levelled by the report at the failure of the UK to be active and visible in dealing with Ukraine? Is that not symptomatic of the UK’s broader failure over recent years to take a traditional leadership role in the area of foreign policy?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

No, my Lords. I am afraid that the Opposition have broken ranks with their support on Ukraine at the wrong time. This country has shown leadership at the United Nations Security Council, where we have been securing negotiations on this matter with regard to sanctions. The report is very clear in what it says. I read it quickly over the weekend and now I shall read it more carefully. I can quote from the evidence given to the committee by David Lidington, who said that,

“pretty well every western Government had made various assumptions about the Gorbachev and Yeltsin years and, indeed, the early indications in Mr Putin’s first term as President, showing that Russia wanted integration into a global rules-based system, and steps such as G8—Russia’s participation continues in, for example, the dialogue of the six with Iran on its nuclear programme—showed that Russia was serious about being an international partner”.

Subsequently, Russia changed its attitude and we have responded to that.

With regard to Foreign Office matters, I refer the House to a letter I wrote to the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, subsequent to when he spoke in the debate called by my noble friend Lady Falkner back in October. I am happy to put a copy of the letter in the Library if it is not there at the moment. It sets out in detail the training that is in place.

This House has a benefit that others do not. As I look around the Chamber, I see experience that only age can bring, and that is an experience that we should not forget. Those in the outside world, whether they are in the media, the Civil Service or in private service, do not have the experience that people in this House have, which is that we lived through the Cold War and therefore have a closer appreciation of what Russia can do.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, forgive my abusing the procedures of this House, but I just wanted to make it clear that the Opposition have not in any way broken our stance on Ukraine and I would ask the noble Baroness to take that back.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I certainly would not wish to take any words back, although I welcome entirely the noble Baroness’s use of her position as Leader of the Opposition to make that statement. This is a self-governing House, and she made that intervention in a perfectly proper way. I am very pleased to hear her remarks, particularly as we are about to hear an EU Council Statement. Ukraine may be part of that, of course, and she will have another opportunity to respond.

Ukraine

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Horam]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they are taking to enhance international support for the government of Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, we are working closely with partners and allies to exert maximum pressure on Russia to de-escalate the situation in eastern Ukraine. In parallel, we are pushing hard for an additional IMF-led financial package to help stabilise the Ukrainian economy. We have also provided £19 million to strengthen the OSCE special monitoring mission, support the international humanitarian response and provide technical assistance to support economic and governance reforms in Ukraine.

[Lord Horam (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for her Answer. Does she not agree that, whatever does or does not happen in Minsk tomorrow, we still need a formidable economic package, given the financial state of Ukraine? That must be given priority and I am glad to hear that it is being worked on. Does she also not agree—again, whatever does or does not happen in Minsk—that we need to keep firmly on the table an option to supply Ukraine with defensive military equipment?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, first, with regard to aid, the IMF has indeed been carrying out investigations as to the measure of the gap between what Ukraine has, what it needs and what may need to be provided for it. In fact, the next IMF review reports in the middle of this month and will identify the need for further macroeconomic support. At that stage we will be able to judge what our contribution should continue to be. With regard to defensive materiel, my right honourable friend has made it clear in another place that that is something that every NATO country has the right to consider. At this stage, we are not considering supplying or selling defensive materiel to the Ukrainians, who are defending themselves against Russian-supported assault. It is important that pressure is kept up on Mr Putin to do the right thing.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, so far the EU consensus has held remarkably well but, for the sanctions package to be renewed, I believe that there has to be unanimous support in the EU Council and that vote will be in July. Given the close relationship between the new Greek Government and the Russian Government, and between Prime Minister Tsipras and President Putin, what are the realistic prospects of that consensus maintaining?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, since the election of the new Greek Government, there have been two occasions on which sanctions have been discussed at a European level. On each of those occasions, the Greek Government have agreed with the consensus of the EU-wide view that it is important to continue these sanctions. Yesterday, in the European Affairs Council, when the next tranche in ramping up sanctions was discussed further, it was decided to postpone their implementation until 16 February to give the diplomatic discussions this week a chance. There was consensus and it is important for all of us that consensus remains.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention again to the way in which Mr Putin has manipulated or prevented the ability of Russian people to speak out and what should be an elected Government with some freedom of expression. It is important that we all liaise with NGOs that have the ability to express their opinions. The difficulty is, as my noble friend pointed out in her debate last October, Mr Putin has been passing legislation to shut them down, if not shut them up.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government press for the earliest possible complete exchange of prisoners? Would this not be a huge benefit to the families and create a good atmosphere for negotiations?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, exchange of prisoners is not a straightforward matter, if ever there were such a thing. It would involve exchanging prisoners between Ukraine and the separatists and indeed the separatists and the Russians who are in east Ukraine with Russia. I am sure the noble Lord will be aware of the predicament of the Ukrainian pilot, Nadiya Savchenko, who is being held in Russia. We have raised these matters with the Russian Government. An exchange is not a one-off straightforward matter.

[Lord Spicer]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

Does the Minister agree that it would play into President Putin’s hands to supply arms to the Ukrainian Government and make his position in Russia and his thesis about Western conspiracy more credible to the Russian people?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that is precisely one of the political judgments that would need to be taken by each and every member of NATO before they took such an action.

Syria

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to investigate breaches of international law by state and non-state actors in Syria with regard to sexual and gender-based violence and persecution of minorities.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, we are appalled by all violations of international law in Syria. The situation should be referred to the International Criminal Court. We support non-governmental organisations and Syrian activists documenting human rights abuses, including sexual violence and minority persecution, for use in a future accountability process. Through our humanitarian partners, we have provided wide-ranging support for survivors of sexual and gender-based violence in Syria and the region.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, there is evidence that all parties to the Syrian conflict have perpetrated crimes against women and children, including rape and terrible sexual violence, and such brutality has often been directed at minorities. The majority of such crimes constitute war crimes or crimes against humanity, and it is alleged that thousands of instances of crimes of this sort have been committed by Syrian Government forces, by ISIS, by the al-Nusra Front and the Free Syrian Army.

Crimes against women and children are often forgotten in the fog of war. What steps are being taken to train people properly to evidence-gather so that there can be prosecutions in future for those crimes? If such training is available, is it sensitive to the social pressure and taboos that are experienced by rape survivors, particularly in that part of the world?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is right to point to the importance of ensuring that impunity does not prevail in these circumstances and that people on all sides of the conflict need to abide by international law. However, it is clear that it is Assad and his forces who are committing the vast majority of the offences that appal humanity.

With regard to investigating allegations of war crimes, the UK, together with the US, the EU, Germany and Norway are funding the Commission for International Justice and Accountability to develop documented legal case files, with named defendants, on regime and opposition—including ISIL—war crimes in Syria. So far, all this work has recovered about 1 million regime documents and archived 500,000 videos as a result of UK-trained and equipped investigators.

[Baroness Williams of Crosby (LD)]

My Lords, in view of the Minister’s very powerful response to the Question from the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, will she consider the rather surprising interview given by the President of Syria this morning, in which he implied that he knew nothing at all about barrel bombs, weapons which have been specifically condemned by the United Nations as never to be used in populous areas? Given that, will the Government consider inviting the Syrian ambassador to explain what his President meant and whether he agrees that barrel bombs should not be used in heavily populated areas? Does the Minister agree that there should also be mention of the bitter, cruel effects of barrel bombs, which are often filled with shrapnel, nails or devices intended to do great damage to children and women?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Government speak out regularly on these matters and I am delighted to hear my noble friend put them in such a context. Today, President Assad showed that he is divorced from reality if he has ignored the fact that he has not only allowed but clearly encouraged his forces to barrel-bomb his own people. Only he has the capacity to deliver barrel bombs. There has certainly been evidence of the result—literally the impact—on the ground and a spokesman for OCHA, on behalf of the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, has made it clear that there is evidence of barrel-bombing and aerial shelling of populated areas by the regime.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the use of chlorine-filled barrel bombs is, in itself, a breach of international law? If so, what are the Government doing to put in the public domain the evidence that chlorine has been used in this way by the regime, thus contradicting the not very believable remarks made by the President of Syria this morning?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raises an important point about the work that has been done in recent months and years on removing chemical weapons from Assad. His use of these has been documented, and the use of chlorine in barrel bombs would come within that category. Syria’s declared chemical weapons stockpile has now been removed from the country and the bulk of it destroyed. However, it is imperative that Syria now addresses its obligation, under the Chemical Weapons Convention, to destroy its chemical weapons production facilities. If it does not, removing what it did have will not prevent the creation of more in the future.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend has done the House a service by raising this important issue. In her Question, she referred to the persecution of minorities. Christians, in the Middle East and elsewhere, are being deliberately attacked and targeted because of their faith. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to counter these outrageous attacks? Will they use the UK’s place on the UN Human Rights Council, from March onwards, to speak out for religious freedom and against the persecution of Christians?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I entirely agree with the sentiments behind the noble Lord’s question. The behaviour of Assad’s regime and ISIL in the area in targeting and attacking minorities, particularly Christians, is inhumane. They appear to be taking action that would strip out some minorities, including Christians, from that area. The noble Lord is right: the Human Rights Council sits in March. Pending the decision of my noble friend the Chief Whip, I hope to be able to attend and make the representations that the noble Lord invites me to make.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in her initial reply to the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, the Minister said that she wanted these issues referred to the International Criminal Court. Does she recall that, last August, the commission of inquiry established by the United Nations called for a referral to that court? It has carried out 480 interviews and drawn up confidential lists of those who ought to be prosecuted. Where have we reached in the judicial process?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I regret to say that, with regard to the judicial process through the ICC, reference to the ICC by the United Nations Security Council was blocked by two members of the 15-strong Security Council: Russia and China. It is indefensible that Russia and China prevented us and the rest of the members of the United Nations referring this matter to the ICC.

Ukraine

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on the situation in Ukraine.

The past month has seen an escalation of violence in the eastern regions of Ukraine. Fighting has been intense around the town of Debaltseve, a strategically important rail and road hub between the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk. The Ukrainians have suffered indiscriminate missile attacks on buses in Donetsk and Volnovakha and on the port city of Mariupol. What is happening on the ground now resembles, to all intents and purposes, a small-scale conventional war. Over 5,000 people are estimated to have been killed since the crisis began last spring, and over 1.5 million people have been displaced from their homes.

In recent weeks, Russia has aggravated the effects of its initial incursion by stepping up the military support it provides to its proxies. It has transferred hundreds of heavy weapons, including rocket launchers, heavy artillery, tanks and armoured vehicles; and it maintains hundreds of regular soldiers, including special forces, in Ukraine, as well as command and control elements, air defence systems, UAVs, and electronic warfare systems. The Russian army is also the source of ex-regulars, who resign their posts in the Russian army to fight in Donbass as ‘volunteers’. The recent escalation in fighting would not be possible without the military support and strategic direction that Russia provides.

In these circumstances, it is vital that all those countries that have a stake in the rules-based international system remain clear and united against Russian aggression. In Normandy last summer, we agreed with the US and our European partners that the most effective channel of communication with the Kremlin would be through a small group. This is known as the Normandy format, comprising Germany, France as the host of the Normandy meeting, Ukraine and Russia.

Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande met President Poroshenko in Kiev last Thursday, and President Putin in the Kremlin on Friday. On Saturday, in Munich, I held meetings with Secretary of State Kerry and German Foreign Minister Steinmeier to assess the prospects for a diplomatic resolution of the crisis. On Sunday, the German Chancellor and the French President held a conference call with Poroshenko and Putin, agreeing to meet in the Normandy format in Minsk on Wednesday. Their aim is to reach agreement on an implementation plan for the Minsk ceasefire agreements that the Russians entered into last September, updated, as they need to be, to reflect subsequent changes on the ground.

The UK welcomes efforts to achieve a peaceful resolution of the situation in eastern Ukraine, while remaining sceptical of Russian commitment to such a resolution. It is clear that Putin respects strength, so Britain’s focus has been, and will continue to be, on ensuring that the EU remains robust, resolved and united on the maintenance of economic sanctions, and closely aligned with the United States.

The consensus within the European Union that Russia must pay a price for its disregard of the international rules-based system remains strong. Equally, there is a clear consensus that the European Union does not, and will not, recognise Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea. The emergency EU Foreign Affairs Council on 29 January agreed to roll over all Crimea-related sanctions against individuals and companies—the tier 2 sanctions. This is another clear sign that the EU remains united in its response to Russian action in Ukraine.

The package of economic sanctions which the European Union and the US have imposed on Russia, coupled with the catastrophic impact on the Russian economy of the decline in the oil price, is a critical element of the pressure on President Putin to change his behaviour. Britain was and remains at the forefront of the successful effort to build and maintain an EU-wide consensus on a sanctions regime on Russia, to the evident surprise and dismay of the Kremlin. Yesterday in Brussels I represented the UK at the European Union Foreign Affairs Council, which discussed Ukraine and reconfirmed its decision to apply additional sanctions, but, at the suggestion of the Ukrainian Foreign Minister and as a gesture of support for the political process, decided to delay their entry into force until next Monday. The informal European Council of Heads of State and Government will have further discussions on Ukraine when it meets on Thursday.

The crisis has inflicted substantial damage on Ukraine’s economy. The World Bank estimates that it shrunk 8.2% in 2014. Public debt has risen sharply, foreign exchange reserves have fallen and the currency has lost nearly half its value against the US dollar. Ukraine clearly needs support from international partners to stabilise the economy, in return for which it must pursue the reforms to which it has committed under the association agreement with the European Union and the IMF programme. Britain is providing £10 million in technical assistance to support economic and governance reforms and the humanitarian effort. The EU will make a substantial contribution to the immediate estimated $15 billion financing needs of the country, the majority of which will be provided through an IMF-led package.

We shall also continue to work through NATO to offer technical support to the Ukrainian armed forces and reassurance to our eastern NATO allies. At the NATO Wales summit last September, NATO allies sent a strong message to Russia, agreeing to maintain NATO’s long-standing capacity building work in Ukraine by setting up five dedicated trust funds for Ukraine, one of which will be co-led by the United Kingdom.

The Wales summit also agreed a readiness action plan to reassure our eastern allies. As part of the package, NATO allies agreed to a new spearhead unit—the very high readiness joint task force—within the NATO response force, which, supported by the newly created forward integration units in the Baltic and eastern European states, will be able to deploy at very short notice whenever they are needed.

On 5 February, NATO Defence Ministers agreed the size and scope of that mission. My right honourable friend the Defence Secretary has announced that the UK will lead the force in 2017 and on a rotational basis thereafter. The UK has also committed to contribute to headquarters in Poland and Romania and the six NATO forward integration unit headquarters in the Baltic states, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. In addition, the UK will contribute four RAF Typhoons to operate alongside Norway in support of the Baltic air policing mission.

The UK also remains a strong supporter of the OSCE’s monitoring mission in eastern Ukraine. We have provided funding of over £2 million, the second largest number of monitors and 10 armoured vehicles to allow monitors to move around dangerous areas in a more secure manner.

Our policy since the start of the crisis has been to supply non-lethal assistance to Ukrainian armed forces, in line with our assessment that there must be a political solution to this crisis. We have increased our defence engagement with Ukraine and are providing additional support on crisis management, anti-corruption, defence reform and strategic communications.

We have also offered three members of the Ukrainian armed forces wounded in the Donbass life-changing specialist medical assistance in the form of reconstructive surgery at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham. We are providing a substantial package of non-lethal equipment to Ukraine, comprising medical kits, winter clothing and equipment, body armour, helmets and fuel. The package is focused on reducing fatalities and casualties among members of the Ukrainian armed forces.

It is a national decision for each country in the NATO alliance to decide whether to supply lethal aid to Ukraine. The UK is not planning to do so, but we reserve the right to keep this position under review. Different members of the alliance take nuanced positions on this question, and are entitled to do so. However, we share a clear understanding that while there is no military solution to this conflict, we could not allow the Ukrainian armed forces to collapse.

By its illegal annexation of Crimea and its destabilising activities in eastern Ukraine, including its direct military support to the separatists, Russia has demonstrated its disregard for international law. It is clear that President Putin respects only strength, and by standing united, using our combined economic muscle to impose significant economic costs on Russia, the international community has shown its determination to rebuff Russia’s anachronistic behaviour.

The ball is now firmly in Russia’s court. Until we see Russia complying with the terms of the Minsk agreement on the ground—withdrawing troops, stopping the flow of weapons and closing the border—there must be no let-up in the pressure. Fine words in a declaration tomorrow will, of course, be welcome, but we have seen them before. The proof of the pudding will be in actions on the ground. We will monitor the situation carefully, and we will agree to a relaxation of the pressure only when we see clear evidence of changed Russian behaviour and a systematic compliance with Russia’s obligations under the original Minsk agreement.

Meanwhile, there will be no let-up in our efforts—with the US, in the EU and through NATO—to ensure that Mr Putin hears a clear and consistent message: civilised nations do not behave in the way Russia under Putin has behaved towards Ukraine, and those of us who live by the rules-based international system will be steadfast in defending it against such aggression. I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am grateful for the measure of support which the noble Lord has given on behalf of the Opposition. It may be the better approach to begin with the last question, which is, “Do we expect to take part in an active manner in the resolution of this crisis?”. We intend to do so because that is what we have been doing. We intend to continue in our resolute way in the diplomacy in which we have engaged in leading first of all, of course, as the world has seen, in applying pressure in Europe with regard to sanctions—a matter that is directly related to Mr Putin’s decision to be brought to the table.

The noble Lord referred to the fact that we have not been a person at the table specifically in the Normandy format, but I did report to the House on 10 January this year about the Normandy format talks, which I had hoped were going to take place the next week in Astana, and made it clear who the participants were. The fact that the meeting did not take place at that particular time was simply because the Russians failed to come forward with a sensible approach to negotiations. Noble Lords will remember that it was the time of the appalling attacks in Paris on innocent people, so other matters intervened.

The Normandy process was born last summer, and has borne fruit. It deserves to be given that continued support by us. It has our support. Clearly, after the discussions yesterday with Mr Obama, it has his support, too. It is crucial, above all, that we do not allow Mr Putin to divide the allies who seek to enforce international law. It is what he is about and it is why we can see that, since the beginning of this year, the level of violence in eastern Ukraine has increased. It is also presumably why—I am making a guess here, but I hope it might be a vaguely educated one—he is trying to put the eastern separatists, with his help, in the strongest position possible in any redrawing of a ceasefire line, having tried to take over even more land.

We are playing and have played a leading role in the EU and NATO and fully support the Normandy process. Of course, one could open that up to other people: if it was opened to us, and to the United States, why should other colleagues in the European Union not also seek to be part of it?

I will quickly answer the noble Lord’s other questions. He referred to the fact that a unified approach to economic diplomacy had been crucial. I most certainly agree. I hope that I have made that clear both in this reply and during the Question a wee bit earlier. He also asked, in particular, whether it was sensible for each NATO country to make its own decision with regard to defensive weapons. The fact is that they can, so whether it is sensible or not shifts to the fact that each country must be sensible and sensitive in the decision it takes. Clearly, our allies in NATO will exercise that degree of moderation and sensitivity before they take action—if any is taken at all.

However, it must be made clear to Mr Putin that we are not going to rule out action. The noble Lord asked in what kind of crisis the UK would supply defensive weapons. I am not going to give Mr Putin the pleasure of knowing what any plans might be. Let him come to the table with proper resolve tomorrow and then put the declaration which I hope may be achieved into practice. Then we might be able to have more sensible talks with him. We will continue to have business with Mr Putin—of course one does—but it is not business as usual.

Working backwards, I will deal lastly with the first question that the noble Lord asked, on whether new EU sanctions would be considered if no deal were to be reached tomorrow. That is the natural outcome of the delay of yesterday’s decision about sanctions until 16 February. Mr Putin should be in no doubt as to the resolve of the European Union as a whole.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, we have 20 minutes for questions. I remind noble Lords that your Lordships should make brief interventions in the form of questions—this is not a debate.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, I wanted to ask this question some time ago. I am sure my noble friend is aware that we are entering a very serious phase in all this and therefore that we ought to be absolutely clear as a country what our role and position is. If it is to be the broker between Germany, the Europeans and the Americans, would it not help if we had a posture which combined negotiations with raising our military position and strength at the same time? She herself said in the Statement that the Russians understand threats above all.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I give the same answer to my noble friend as I gave in January. We are not considering rearming ourselves and increasing our own armed position to launch any form of military action in Ukraine. That is simply not something that would be considered at this stage or, I would hope, in any event. That is not on the table. What we are considering is how best to continue the strong pressure on Mr Putin to ensure that the discussions tomorrow bear fruit and then to hold him to the results of that.

We have a strong part to play in all the continuing negotiations, and the diplomatic airwaves, both face to face and over the internet and telephone, have been a-buzzing this last week, as all noble Lords would expect. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary had meetings in Munich on Saturday with Mr Kerry, Secretary of State of the United States, and Herr Steinmeier, the German Foreign Secretary. There are talks a-plenty between all the key players. That is why the consensus can be maintained.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

My Lords, I commend the Government on the robust tone of their Statement, but, as it says, words do not get very far with Mr Putin, and even sanctions have not so far had the effect that we had hoped.

Does the noble Baroness agree that the only physical obstacle to the further advance of Russian special forces, Russian separatists and Russian so-called volunteers have been the brave men and women of the Ukrainian armed forces, who have been fighting with inadequate weapons? Nothing is more devastating for the morale of any fighter than knowing that he or she is less well armed than his or her opponents. If there is not a convincing settlement in Minsk tomorrow and no real evidence for believing that the ceasefire terms will in future be observed, are we not getting to the point when it would be right for the Government to take the lead within the European Union in indicating that we would be prepared to sell defensive weapons, including lethal ones, to the Ukrainian armed forces?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises questions that I know colleagues have been discussing and about which they are deeply concerned. I know that he raises them with his background as a Minister in the MoD and has experience of the kinds of difficulty that surround dealing with someone such as Mr Putin.

Briefly, I agree that the courage of the Ukrainians who are trying to resist the separatists being fuelled by up-to-date materiel has been remarkable. There are allegations that they have carried out atrocities. One hopes that those allegations will be disproved, but if they have committed atrocities, that is wrong. The majority have been committed by the separatists.

We have had a long-term relationship in providing non-weapons-based help and support, supplying training and advice more generally as well as the non-defensive materiel that can assist them. Any further step would be one that no Government would wish to rehearse in public, unless there were the need. The important thing is to ensure that there is never that need and that we hold Mr Putin to account, slippery and careful in creating smoke and mirrors as he is.

[Lord Blair of Boughton (CB)]

My Lords, there have been many crimes committed during this terrible set of events. Can the Minister inform the House on the progress of the investigation into the most obvious of them, which was the shooting down of the Malaysian airliner? That was a war crime beyond normal war crimes and I wonder whether she could assist the House.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lord, that crime was clearly visible to all of us. I can only congratulate those who have persisted in the most difficult task of carrying out investigations against all the attempts by the separatists to prevent access to the crash site. Those investigations are ongoing.

More broadly, with regard to human rights abuses we are determined not to allow impunity. We are concerned by recent reports of the use of cluster munitions in eastern Ukraine. The noble Lord referred to a specific event, but the issue is broader than that. It is important that all of us, and those who work in NGOs, with all the contacts that they have, can insist that those gathering evidence bring to book those responsible for human rights abuses. Impunity must not succeed.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)]

Does my noble friend accept that in the unlikely circumstance that we have progress in Minsk tomorrow and that Mr Putin sticks to his word perhaps for more than an hour or two, or even a day or week or two, the holding of any ceasefire is contingent on the verifiable force of peacekeepers? Does she agree that the OSCE effort, valiant though it has been, is perhaps now inadequate? What conversations is it having with the relevant UN agencies to explore the possibility of UN peacekeepers being the basis of verification of any ceasefire agreement?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend raises a very important point. The OSCE plays a great part in such matters, not only in Ukraine but across Europe, and we are a strong supporter of it. We will continue to suggest that it should play an active role in monitoring any ceasefire agreement. I am aware that there were reports in the press—as yet unsubstantiated, I think—that Mr Putin is said to have commented that he might well agree that the OSCE, and indeed the United Nations, could monitor. But those are unsubstantiated reports so I would not wish to go further than that.

The central premise of my noble friend’s question is right. If there is, as we hope there will be, a decision in Minsk tomorrow that leads to some form of ceasefire and a development that is peaceful, there will need to be an agreement to have verification on the ground, which can have the confidence of not only the European Union but, of course, the Ukrainians. It is for them on Thursday then to consider any proposals that may come out of tomorrow.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, the actions of the separatists and the Russian Government are, of course, utterly deplorable. But will the Government press the Government of the Ukraine to curb the activities of the extreme right-wing nationalist and anti-Semitic elements which actually constitute a propaganda gift to Mr Putin and Russia?

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is important that throughout Europe and beyond people do not use any activity to undermine the right of minorities to express their own views or indeed to practise their own faiths. If they do so, whether they be separatists, Ukrainians or any groups in any other European country, they are a gift to any person who wishes to show that they have a right to act. Mr Putin, in particular, would of course seize on an opportunity to point to what he alleges to be Nazism where no Nazism actually exists.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, no one wants to precipitate a wider war in Ukraine—no one sensible, anyway—but my noble friend spoke about technical support to the Kiev government forces and strategic communications equipment. Can she indicate to us whether that includes—or at least does not rule out—the provision of cybertechnology and advanced electronic equipment to neutralise the very sophisticated Russian weaponry that has been supplied to the rebels and the sophisticated communications equipment that is giving them a considerable advantage at the moment?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I think if I asked I would be advised that it is not a good thing to mention what our cyberactivity might or might not be. Indeed, I have always been informed by other Ministers that Russia has very good methods of its own to find out what other people’s cybercapabilities are. I can say to my noble friend that we have been providing additional support on defence reform and strategic communications. In addition, this year we plan to provide further support, including with regard to logistics. We are actively considering what more we are able to do. I think that is coded language for saying that we are seeing what we can assist with.

All this has to be based around the fact that tomorrow we will see an attempt by our colleagues to come to an agreement in Minsk. Of course, the Normandy format could be extended to others. We have said that that is not the right way forward because it would render it too wide a group, incapable of coming to a negotiated agreement. But the scene is set whereby tomorrow the Normandy format will, we hope, come to proposals which would then be put to the Ukrainians on Thursday. There is a process in place. Underneath all that is a determination to keep the pressure up on Russia. One part of that determination is indeed to ensure that we give what assistance is proper to the Ukrainians.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Judd]

My Lords, while obviously the firm action by the Government deserves full support from all parts of the House, does the Minister not agree that ultimately a solution to the intractable problems of Ukraine cannot be imposed—it has to have the confidence and support of the entire Ukrainian population—and that this would involve reconciliation, bridge-building, peace-building and confidence-building? Is it not therefore absolutely essential in the midst of all our firm action to leave nobody in any doubt that we recognise that there is a Russian population in Ukraine which has real anxieties—well founded or not, and certainly ruthlessly and cynically exploited by the Russians—and a real concern about its identity and future in Ukraine, and that we must not use language that seems to obliterate that reality?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to point to the fact that opinion can be manipulated, and Mr Putin is very clever at doing that. It is, of course, right to say that there must be people in the area of eastern Ukraine—I would assume, because I do not know and have no evidence of it—who consider themselves to be Russian or Russian-aligned and who have anxieties. There are other ways of assisting them than having Russia send in its materiel and troops effectively to create an unstable and violent situation. I agree, however, that if there are anxieties they must be addressed. We must also remember that Russia illegally annexed Crimea and I have a concern, as others do, for the Crimean Tartars, where the news is not good and disappearances continue. My goodness, my Lords, the Crimean Tartars have anxieties.

[Baroness Williams of Crosby (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an old interest as having been for some years a former member of the advisory council to the Rada of Ukraine, along with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe of Aberavon. I completely agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, that we must uphold the rule of law; that is essential for the interests of the whole European continent. However, I share with the noble Lord, Lord Judd, a concern to make sure that Russia knows exactly where it stands. In particular, it might be very helpful if we indicated to the Ukrainian Government that there is no immediate or close possibility of Ukraine joining NATO. I know Russia well, and a very striking thing there is the level of paranoia about any kind of invasion of Russia. It is a ludicrous idea but it is strongly held. Does the noble Baroness therefore agree that it is important to indicate our understanding of some of Russia’s concerns, albeit that the country must obey the rule of law, and that that means that we have no aggressive intentions? We know that we have no such intentions, but in the case of Ukraine it is vital to keep saying so.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I would say to my noble friend that Ukraine is, of course, a sovereign country, and all European democracies are entitled to pursue NATO membership. However, I am sure she knows better than I that it would be necessary for Ukraine to achieve the standards expected of an ally, and to be able to undertake the commitments and obligations of membership before being invited to join the alliance. Given the situation in eastern Ukraine we would expect this process to take many years.

[Lord Cromwell (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, in repeating the Statement, referred to President Putin responding to strength—indeed I think “force” was the word used—and she may well be right in that. It is widely said that should the talks in Minsk fail, war is the next step. Does she agree with that, and if so who exactly is going to be declaring war on whom? Finally, with the President of Russia arming one side and the President of America possibly arming the other, what would a victory look like?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord tempts me to paint a picture of Armageddon, which is not my wont. When we go forward in diplomacy with the next-steps talks tomorrow, their results will clearly be discussed with the Ukrainians on Thursday. I would not want to predict the outcome of those talks. I always go into these matters in a determined and positive way, and I am sure that given the characters of those involved in the Normandy format, they are far more determined and knowledgeable than I could be. I do not wish to go down the route of predicting whether there would be all-out war because it is the job of us all to stop that happening. That is where we must not end up, and the route being taken by the negotiators is one which does not have on it a signpost to war.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in agreeing with what my noble friend has just said, could we try to cool the rhetoric all around? Invoking the spirit of Munich and talking about a new cold war, let alone a hot one, helps no one. If, sadly, the Minsk dialogue does not result in success, could we consider convening a conference here in London and taking a leading role, which we would be well fitted to take, to bring all the parties together? A future Europe that is at peace and in harmony needs a stable, prosperous Russia and a free Ukraine as much as it needs everything else.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, none of us in the European Union is seeking a confrontation with Russia; it is the Russians who have sought confrontation with Ukraine and others. We need to work within those parameters. That is why I say that it is not business as usual with Russia, but it is business. We talk to the Russians—and indeed tomorrow the Normandy format will show that there is negotiation—but do not let us underestimate the determination of Mr Putin to try to drive a wedge between us. That must not succeed.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the fact that this debate has been much more detailed than in the past and I am grateful for that. I also welcome the recognition that this is a profoundly dangerous situation. However, I say to the Minister that it is not new. If we read President Putin’s statements and speeches over the years, as I have done, it is clear that he is looking for a re-ordering of Europe. He uses phrases such “spheres of influence” and “near neighbours” over and over again, which go against the United Nations rules on those very things. So we have a crisis that will grow, and getting it under control in some way will be profoundly difficult. Some of the suggestions which have been made today, including that of the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, may be useful in time, but we should be under no illusions and we should be reading President Putin’s statements because they tell us an awful lot.

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the last sentence uttered by the noble Lord is one that we should all take away with us. I agree with him.

Greece: New Government

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are their priorities in establishing a relationship with the new government of Greece.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government’s first priority is to establish a strong working relationship with Greece’s new Government. Last week, the Prime Minister called Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras on the telephone to congratulate him, and yesterday the Chancellor met the new Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis. The UK remains committed to working closely with the new Government on the full range of bilateral, EU, NATO and wider international issues.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

My Lords, are not the poor and many middle-class people in Greece enduring unbelievable hardship? What are the United Kingdom Government able to do to mitigate this disaster? Are the people of Greece able to look forward in any way? It is hardly surprising that they are resorting to radical measures. What can the Government do, given that Britain is a member of the European Union, to alleviate their plight?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we are indeed a member of the EU, but we are not a member of the eurozone; so I would gently say to the noble Lord that we are not directly involved in Greece’s debt repayment negotiations, and nor indeed should we be. Of course, we are open to the discussions with the Greek Government, as I explained in my first Answer. The discussions yesterday were cordial and constructive, and that was the interpretation of both the Greek Finance Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. As I say, we are open to discussions, but since we are not a member of the eurozone we are not the country that will take the decision about how the Greek Government may decide to present their plans—which possibly will be next week. I know that they are working hard to achieve that.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, given the euro’s catastrophic effect on jobs and prosperity, should not our top priority be to encourage Greece, and indeed the other euro member states, to abandon it? If that led to the collapse of the whole project of European integration, would that not be hugely beneficial to us all? Just in case the Minister does not agree with me, can she tell noble Lords what is now the point of the European Union and its wretched euro?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is clear that the stand-off between Greece and the eurozone is fast becoming the biggest risk to the global economy and is a rising threat to our economy at home. I say that, and indeed the Chancellor of the Exchequer said it yesterday after his meeting with the Greek Finance Minister. It is up to Europe to come to a conclusion which means that Greece can remain part of the euro, that the European Union can prosper, and that jobs and growth can continue. That is the way forward for success in Europe and for the success of this country in Europe.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

Does my noble friend agree that if, as we all hope, the eurozone is to get more jobs and growth, then in communicating with the Greek Government, we must urge structural reforms, including eliminating cronyism and corruption; that those are essential if we are to get, in the words of the new Finance Minister, a reformed, not a deformed, Greece; that fiscal responsibility and sustainability are essential; that spending more money without knowing where it is coming from—a fault not unknown in some parties in this country—is inadvisable; and that the UK can also offer the Greek Government the benefits of the progress that has been made in this country in tackling tax evasion in the last five years?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I agree with every word that my noble friend said.

[Baroness Hooper (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend reassure us and confirm that the relationship between Greece and the UK has been greatly reinforced by the educational exchanges that have taken place over the years, especially in the field of medicine? Will she therefore reassure us that the existing educational initiatives will be reinforced?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend on the importance of those educational exchanges. Work is done throughout various government departments and the FCO always looks very carefully at how we can give advice on such matters, too.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that it is a little bit too simplistic just to say, “We are not members of the eurozone”, and therefore almost wash her hands of it? There are loans from the International Monetary Fund and we have an interest in those loans being properly managed. Can she tell us what the Government’s intention in that regard is?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we would never wash our hands of discussions with our colleagues within the European Union. I think that I have made it clear that both the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer have already had discussions. Indeed, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister telephoned Mr Tsipras on the very day that the Greek Prime Minister took his position. Discussions are ongoing and there will, of course, be meetings next week at the European summit. As regards the IMF, we are indeed part of the system that backs it up. The IMF’s status as preferred creditor means that it is repaid first. What is important is that we do not get to the point of a Greek default. The new Greek Government are working on that and it is important for them to be able to discuss what kind of package they can put together, as they work around their colleagues in the eurozone this week.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kilclooney]

My Lords, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer met the Greek Minister yesterday, did he point out to him the advantages the United Kingdom had by not being a member of the eurozone?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, he pointed out the advantages of having a Government who put competence over chaos.

Eritrea and Ethiopia

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on securing today’s debate. I also commend the important work of the various all-party groups of which he is an active member, including the All-Party Group on Africa. As he has described, there are few more moving stories than those of migrants who undertake perilous journeys to reach western Europe, sometimes losing their lives in the process. The noble Baroness, Lady Morgan of Ely, has just described that graphically. Today’s debate is, therefore, a welcome opportunity to discuss an issue that clearly links the United Kingdom and our partners in Africa—and indeed, our partners in the European Union in our work to reduce the need for migration and the need for unsafe migration.

The Government have made it very clear that the international community must act together to reduce the risk of migrants losing their lives or falling prey to the traffickers. Migrants make the journey for a number of reasons—whether seeking more economic opportunities or to escape human rights abuses and persecution. I shall come in a moment to some of the more specific points which noble Lords have made on that matter. Poverty and instability in the Horn of Africa drives individuals to seek a better life in Europe and beyond. For those who cannot leave, these same factors contribute to an environment in which fundamentalism and extremism can prosper. Tackling illegal migration to the EU from the Horn of Africa is therefore clearly in our interest and that of all countries in the region. We must address the problem at its source, and the UK is committed to playing its part.

The noble Lord, Lord Rea, in particular asked questions about al-Shabaab and the terrorism link with regard to that. He mentioned the United Nations and Eritrea monitoring group. I understand that Eritrea denies any support for al-Shabaab but continues to refuse entry to the monitoring group. We urge it to co-operate fully with the group’s work. I am entirely at one with the noble Lord in this matter.

Clearly co-operation through our European Union partners is important. I was asked about that not only by the noble Baronesses, Lady Morgan and Lady Kinnock, but by my noble friend Lord Chidgey and the right reverend Prelate. In addition to our bilateral work with key regional partners, we play an active role in the new EU-African Union Khartoum process, which includes of course both Ethiopia and Eritrea, supporting dialogue and co-operation to tackle people smuggling and human trafficking in the region. I can tell the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, that the Prime Minister’s position is that we will negotiate a successful resolution to our relationship with the European Union, and in any future decision by the British people we would put a very positive case and would certainly hope that we would remain part of it. That is the result of successful negotiation by my right honourable friend Philip Hammond, who has been travelling around countries throughout western Europe, taking soundings and getting some very positive results—more positive perhaps than some of the press makes clear on some of the issues that we have been broaching. There is still a long way to go. We know that but we are making progress.

We welcome the fact that both Ethiopia and Eritrea have expressed commitment to the Khartoum process. It provides the best framework to drive this issue forward. Noble Lords have drawn attention to the tension between Ethiopia and Eritrea. I would say to them that if they are taking the Khartoum process seriously, they have to take negotiation on the basis of solving the differences between them seriously too. As a member of the core group of EU and AU member states steering the development of how we take this process forward, we as a country are keen to ensure that we maintain momentum and that the process leads quickly to concrete projects that combat the smuggling and trafficking.

Several noble Lords asked me, in particular, about extended military service—very much a euphemism. I listened very carefully to all the words used by the noble Lord, Lord Rea, the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, my noble friends Lord Avebury and Lord Chidgey, and the right reverend Prelate about the real nature of this—one or two noble Lords referred to it as being like slave labour—and the fact that it acts as a serious driver for people to leave the country. Having left and broken the rules on conscription, people are—I cannot think of the right word—terrified to return. That is why some of the figures of asylum grants by us to Eritreans look so high, because clearly there has been concern about them returning to that country given their reasons for leaving.

We did indeed have a joint visit to Eritrea by Home Office and Foreign Office officials in December. They looked at the drivers of migration and particularly discussed the matter of extended military service. I can say to my noble friend Lord Chidgey that this was a useful starting point for further co-operation. A similar visit to Ethiopia is planned for the near future. With regard the visit to Eritrea, the Eritrean Government representatives assured the officials from the FCO that military service will be strictly limited to 18 months and, indeed, I have been briefed by those officials today. The undertaking has been given. It is matter now of making sure that that is put into practice.

The noble Lord, Lord Rea, made the valid point that not everybody fleeing Eritrea is fleeing persecution; some leave for strong economic reasons, and the extension of the 18 months’ military service, with no knowing when it would finish, was an awful position to be in. That is very different from some of the drivers that one sees for people fleeing from Syria.

The matter of development assistance was raised by my noble friend Lord Patten. He asked about the role of aid. We are firmly committed to the use of aid in ensuring that there is security and prosperity in countries that currently experience neither. Our total spend over all countries in 2013 was almost £11.5 billion, second only behind the USA in overall volume. We believe that that is helping to change the lives of many millions of ordinary citizens across the Horn of Africa. In Ethiopia, in particular, last year our funding allowed over 1.6 million children to go to primary school, helped 110,000 mothers to give birth safely and provided clean water for more than 250,000 people. Our funding is also helping Eritrean refugees in Ethiopia, particularly with shelter and support to unaccompanied minors, as well as warning refugees of the risks of illegal migration. I know that none of that will be a surprise to the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock. When she was a Minister she was passionate about these issues, and rightly so. I can assure her that that passion remains in government.

I was also asked about the issue of Ethiopian and Eritrean relations more generally. My noble friend made reference to a leaked memo on Ethiopia’s destabilising policy against Eritrea—at least the memo refers to itself as being leaked, whether it was or not I simply do not know. We will consider its contents seriously and closely. Better relations between the two countries are clearly needed. We have called on both sides to respect the commitment that they made in the Algiers peace agreement of December 2000 to refrain from using force against each other. We will continue to encourage both Eritrea and Ethiopia to engage bilaterally and internationally to overcome the current stalemate and hope that progress can be made towards demarcation in accordance with the decision of the Eritrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission.

[Lord Avebury]

Does my noble friend not recognise that the Algiers agreement was final and binding and that both parties had agreed to accept it, so there is no question of negotiations or variations on the settlement? They both must accept it, and, in particular, Ethiopia must agree to the border that was determined by the British judge, Judge Lauterpacht.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, international agreements, once entered into, should be adhered to, and I hope that the Russians hear that with regard to the Minsk protocol with regard to Ukraine. I agree with my noble friend about the importance of keeping one’s word.

Much attention was drawn to the issue of human rights, and rightly so. I will summarise very rapidly indeed. The noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, my noble friends Lord Avebury and Lord Chidgey, the noble Lord, Lord Rea, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby all raised issues. Briefly, with regard to the matter of Petros, we are of course aware of that case. I am afraid that I can give the noble Lord, Lord Rea, no comfort. We do not have any assurances about his well-being despite consistent efforts to obtain them. We will continue to call for his release.

There are human rights abuses across the board. The right reverend Prelate raised the issue of religious freedom. We will continue to look very carefully at the matters he raised because, clearly, those are abuses that have occurred and, as he rightly says, particularly against groups that are not registered under the Eritrean system. There was a reference to the detention of political prisoners and journalists. We certainly try to establish the facts. There are still journalists in detention despite reports that six have been released. There was a reference to the Swedish-Eritrean journalist Dawit Isaak, who is still under arrest.

With regard to all these matters, we do not give up. Just because it is difficult, we do not give up in pursuing our relationship with these two countries. Walking away would leave those who are the victims of persecution and misbehaviour by Governments in a more perilous position than they currently face. The commitment of this Government is that this is a challenge that requires a global, long-term response to a difficult problem. We will all keep trying to ensure that, as an international community, we do our best to tackle it for the sake of those behind the traffickers and behind Governments who do not have good governance.