Universal Credit

Angela Rayner Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That an humble address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Universal Credit (Miscellaneous Amendments Saving and Transitional Provision) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 65), dated 22 January, a copy of which was laid before this House on 22 January, be annulled.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following motions:

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Free School Lunches and Milk, and School and Early Years Finance (Amendments Relating to Universal Credit) (England) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 148), dated 6 February, a copy of which was laid before this House on 7 February, be annulled.

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that the Local Authority (Duty to Secure Early Years Provision Free of Charge) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 146), dated 6 February, a copy of which was laid before this House on 7 February, be annulled.

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Social Security (Contributions) (Amendment) Regulations 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 120), dated 31 January, a copy of which was laid before this House on 1 February, be annulled.

[Angela Rayner]

I ask all Members of the House to bear in mind what Madam Deputy Speaker has said when they make interventions. I will try to be as brief as I possibly can.

As my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), the shadow Chancellor, has said, this Tory Government have created a crisis on a scale that we have not seen before. Today, they did nothing to tackle it, and in these regulations they seek to make it even worse. If the House does not vote for our motions today, more than 1 million families will lose out. First, they will lose their free school meals.

[Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady agree with Channel 4’s FactCheck, which says:

“This is not a case of the government taking free school meals from a million children”?

These are children who are not currently receiving free school meals, and in fact the Government’s proposals would see 50,000 extra children receive free school meals. Perhaps the hon. Lady could stop giving inaccurate information to the House.

[Angela Rayner]

The hon. Gentleman should know that his Government have introduced transitional arrangements, and we are clear that under the transitional arrangements, those 1 million children would be entitled to free school meals. With the regulations, the Government are pulling the rug from under those hard-working families.

In my own boroughs of Oldham and Tameside, a total of 8,700 children growing up in poverty are set to miss out. In the Secretary of State’s own area, the total is 6,500. So much for the light at the end of the tunnel that the Chancellor mentioned over the weekend on “The Andrew Marr Show”!

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Government did an assessment of the impact on childhood obesity prior to taking this statutory instrument through?

[Angela Rayner]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, because childhood obesity is an important issue at the moment. The Children’s Society found that 1 million children growing up in poverty will lose out on free school meals that they would have been entitled to. Incredibly, the Government have the audacity to claim that they are being generous. They want to pretend that no families will lose because the small numbers who are benefiting under universal credit will not lose out now.

[Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)]

Is it not right that money should be placed where it is most needed? That is where we need the most support. When universal credit is fully rolled out, it is absolutely a fact that 50,000 more children will be getting free school meals. It is not right to mislead about this issue.

[Angela Rayner]

I am sure that the hon. Lady does not believe that I am trying to mislead the House. Let me be absolutely clear: many people, including MPs, wrongly believe that all children in poverty already get free school meals. That is not currently the case. But under the transitional protections under universal credit, those 1 million children would be entitled to the benefit. Through the secondary legislation, the Government are pulling the rug from underneath those families.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this will make the working poor poorer and hit families deeply?

[Angela Rayner]

I am sure that my hon. Friend made an excellent point, but I am sorry to say that I did not quite catch it.

[Mr Cunningham]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this will make the working poor even poorer, in this day and age?

[Angela Rayner]

That is absolutely right—my hon. Friend did make a really important point. Those who currently get free school meals who were not part of universal credit were in households on out-of-work benefits. If these regulations were to go through, the people on whom they would have the most detrimental effect would be those in work.

The current system would help more than 1 million more children than the plans we are voting on today. The former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), once wrote that universal credit

“will ensure that work always pays and is seen to pay”,

yet under these plans, universal credit will mean that work does not pay for hundreds of thousands of families. Those just above the threshold would be better off earning less.

[Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

One of the biggest and most fundamental errors that the hon. Lady and her party are making is in their understanding of what transitional protection is about. I helped to design this, so let me inform her—[Interruption.] Perhaps Labour Members would like to listen as they might learn something. Transitional protection was designed to protect those moving from tax credits into universal credit so that they did not—if this would have happened to be the case—lose any money in the transition. It was not about increasing to the degree that she is talking about the numbers in receipt of free school meals. Under universal credit, more will receive free school meals than would have been the case under Labour’s plans.

[Angela Rayner]

The right hon. Gentleman acknowledges the fact that under the transitional protections many more in-work families would have received free school meals than will be the case under the Government’s secondary legislation. We hope that Conservative Members will help those hard-working families by ensuring that passported benefits do apply to them. We hope that they will help out those who are just about managing, which was what the Prime Minister claimed that she was going to do in the first place.

[Karen Lee (Lincoln) (Lab)]

Some 27% of children in Lincoln live in poverty. Does my hon. Friend agree that this cliff-edge threshold might mean that some of those children might not get a hot meal one day?

[Angela Rayner]

I absolutely agree about that. [Interruption.] Conservative Members keep saying that we are scaremongering, but it is absolute fact that under the transitional arrangements that currently apply, as they do in my constituency, which was one of the first to roll out UC, free school meals do cover those applicants who receive universal credit. The regulations will remove that right for those individuals, which is scandalous.

[Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent opening statement. Does she agree that the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) almost makes her point for her? He made it clear that this is about making sure that people who are currently in receipt of benefits and free school meals would not be worse off when they transition, in which case they are going to be worse off under these regulations—[Interruption.] He is making that case for her. For all the huff and puff from Conservative Members, one would have thought we would remember that this is about children and families who are living in poverty in work. We should be doing our utmost to help them, not having a semantic argument.

[Angela Rayner]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend.

As I was saying, people should not just take our word for it. They should look at what the Children’s Society has said about those 1 million children who will not receive free school meals if the regulations come into force.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a very persuasive case. In the Bradford district, more than 10,000 children who are living in poverty will miss out on free school meals, but Northern Ireland will be exempt from the same policy. Are not the Government putting their own political benefit before child poverty?

[Angela Rayner]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point, which I will come on to later in my contribution. As I said, those who are just above—

[Chris Philp]

rose—

[Angela Rayner]

You have had your chance, thank you. As I said—[Interruption.] Hon. Members have been told that more than 40 people want to speak in this debate, and I am trying to give way as best I can. The hon. Gentleman has already intervened once; I think that was more than enough.

Those who are just above the threshold would be better off earning less under these proposals. The Government are pulling the rug from under their feet, because once they earn above £7,400, they will be about £400 a year worse off for each child they have in school. So just when did the Government abandon the principle that work should pay? Perhaps the Secretary of State can tell us why she will be voting for a policy that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain) said, is twice as generous in Northern Ireland as it will be for her own constituents?

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that although the Conservative party talks about making work pay, it completely demolished that with universal credit through George Osborne’s removal of work allowances, meaning that now work does not pay?

[Angela Rayner]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Universal credit has had add-ons and add-ons ever since the Government proposed it. That has made it very complex and, as I have outlined, work will not pay for some in receipt of it if these proposals go forward.

I would like to make a little more progress and address the issue of free childcare. Once again, the Government have a policy in transition—one that they are seeking to restrict. About 200,000 two-year-olds are currently eligible for 15 hours of free childcare, but there will be more than 400,000 two-year-olds in families receiving universal credit. Ministers have refused to say how many children will be eligible under their policy, so will they finally do so now? I ask that because hundreds of thousands of children may lose out under their plans. Once again, some of the most vulnerable children are first in line for Government cuts.

[Neil O'Brien (Harborough) (Con)]

In this House, we all believe in an honest and balanced debate, so may we just hear from the hon. Lady that it is clear that 50,000 more children will be entitled to free school meals under universal credit than under the previous system, and that 7,000 more children will be entitled to the two-year-old free offer—it is more, not fewer?

[Angela Rayner]

The Government have plucked the 50,000 figure from their own consultation document, but it had no accompanying methodology, so I am not convinced. Indeed, that makes up less than 5% of those who are in poverty. The regulations would mean that those who would currently be eligible for support under the transitional protections this Government laid out for universal credit would have that rug pulled from under them—[Interruption.] Conservative Members can keep making faces, but those are the facts.

Once again, this creates a cliff edge for families in receipt of childcare, and the policy will squeeze the income of working families who are already struggling to get by. Under universal credit, they have to pay their childcare costs up front and then claim the money back. With childcare costs rising faster than wages, meeting these costs up front will make it impossible for many working families to make ends meet, so yet another barrier is put in their way. Only months ago, several Conservative Members asked the Chancellor to look again at the taper rate because it meant that work would not pay for low-income families. Today’s vote is on exactly this issue. When the Government have already made those families bear the brunt of their cuts, adding yet another burden is just wrong.

[Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way; she is being extremely generous with her time. The Labour party manifesto committed to extend free school meals to all primary school pupils. This is an additional extension of free school meals to a lot more children who are in secondary school. Will the hon. Lady please tell us how much that would cost and how her party would fund it if it was in power?

[Angela Rayner]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the “School Food Plan” that was published in July 2013 recommended that the Government looked into free school meals for infant and junior schools. The Labour party manifesto was clear that we would just extend that. It was unfortunate that the Government chose not to do as recommended, instead just giving it to infants. If Conservative Members would like to see our costings and manifesto, I am sure I could provide that, because there were many more costings in our manifesto than there were in the Conservative manifesto—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. This is an extremely important and very serious debate. The hon. Lady has taken a lot of interventions. When she takes interventions, there is no point in just shouting at her; it is important to listen to her answer. The same will go for when the Secretary of State is speaking.

[Angela Rayner]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

The Government are phasing out childcare vouchers as they transition to a policy of tax-free childcare, but that policy is simply not working. The introduction of tax-free childcare has been so shambolic that the Government fell 90% short of their take-up target, and spending was less than 5% of their projection. Instead, nearly £1 billion that was earmarked for childcare was returned to the Treasury. Yet the Government are still pushing ahead with their plan to phase out childcare vouchers, which will leave families hundreds of pounds worse off and directly transfer Government support to those who are better off.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend may have seen written answers I have received from the Government showing that 10,000 of their own officials still use childcare vouchers, and the same number are signed up to a Ministry of Defence scheme. Does she agree that if Ministers will not protect their own officials, they should at least stand up for our armed forces?

[Angela Rayner]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. The armed forces do a magnificent job for us and it is an absolute scandal that they will also be caught up in this and made worse off as a result of these measures.

Members from all parties will know that hundreds of their constituents have written letters and signed petitions to express their concerns about these policy changes, yet the Government continue to push ahead with them, and have tried to do so by the stroke of a ministerial pen. The only legislation that has come to this House is the regulations before us, which complete the phase-out for those who change employers after April. We have therefore called for a vote on the regulations, and we want to make it clear that if the House passes our motion, we are sending a clear message to the Government that it is time to think again and keep childcare vouchers available.

The regulations on universal credit apply new sanctions to those who are currently protected and cut the time period that claimants have to provide evidence. Despite the Government’s rhetoric on people with disabilities and mental health needs, it will be them who suffer. Charities have urged the Government to reconsider, with Mind saying that the regulations will

“make the system harder to navigate at a time when people are unwell and most in need of support.”

Why is the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions ignoring those voices and making the system even harder for the very people the Government claim they want to support?

Self-employed people are the absolute bedrock of our economy. The Chancellor spoke of start-ups and new businesses in his statement earlier, but this legislation will make things harder for self-employed people. The TUC warns that a short start-up period for the minimum income floor could close businesses with the potential to become sustainable and profitable. The rules could discourage people from self-employment entirely. So, again, why is the Secretary of State making things so much harder for the people her Government claim to support? We know that the self-employed are more likely to be on lower earnings than employees, yet in its recent welfare trends report, the Office for Budget Responsibility confirmed that the low-paid self-employed face a much tougher benefits system under universal credit. On average, those affected are set to lose around £3,000, so the savings seem to be coming from the pockets of the low-paid self-employed. Why is the Secretary of State pursuing a policy that will make so many self-employed people much worse off?

The regulations make the universal credit system even more complicated, with the introduction of the surplus earnings rule. As universal credit is based on the previous month’s income, a self-employed claimant could get substantially less universal credit than an employed claimant earning a similar annual income. Successive Secretaries of State for Work and Pensions have said that universal credit will be simpler and will make work pay, but once again they are proposing the opposite.

All these statutory instruments share a common theme: they are about the support that we offer to families and their children, particularly those already struggling to get by. I remember when the Prime Minister said that the mission of her Government was the acronym JAMs—I am starting to think that really it stood for “Just about May’s survival”. It was meant to be about those who are just about managing, yet under this Government, there will be JAMs today and there will still be JAMs tomorrow, because instead of helping them to get on and get by, the Government are making their lives ever harder. Today is a chance to say that enough is enough. I commend the motions to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con)]

We live in strange political times both in this country and across the Atlantic, where we frequently hear reports about fake news. In such times it is therefore particularly incumbent on Members of all parties in this House to be very careful about the way in which they use and present facts, because democratic discourse is impossible without honest and accurate facts. We undermine our entire system of democracy when elected Members of this Parliament play fast and loose with facts.

We have heard Members in this debate saying that free school meals are going to be reduced—that was the phrase used by the previous speaker. Other Opposition Members have said that free school meals would be “taken away”. It is clear that those statements are not accurate. Several colleagues have referred to the “Channel 4 News” FactCheck discourse on this matter, and it is clear that no children currently in receipt of free school meals will have them taken away. In fact, more children will receive free school meals as a result of these proposals. It is simply untrue to say that 1 million children will have their free school meals taken away or reduced. By making comments implying that, the shadow Education Secretary, who I can see chuntering, is doing our democracy a disservice.

Perhaps the hon. Lady is trying to insinuate that there was a Government policy that would have provided extra school meals, but for some kind of U-turn. The “Channel 4 News” FactCheck is clear about that as well, and the Government have also been clear about it. There was an interim transitional measure. My right hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matt Hancock), when he was a junior Skills Minister, made that clear when the scheme was set up in April 2013, and my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr Goodwill), when he was a junior Education Minister, made the same point last July. It is wholly inaccurate to suggest that there was ever a hypothetical Government policy under which these children would ever have received extra school meals.

The shadow Education Secretary has done this House and herself a great disservice—[Interruption.] Indeed she has the right to speak, but she ought to take care to be accurate when she does so, because her words matter and she should weigh them carefully.

[Angela Rayner]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is there any recourse for me to challenge the fact that an hon. Member is suggesting that I have misled this House in this debate?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

First of all, nobody will mislead this House because we are all hon. Members. I am sure that when we come to the wind-ups, everything will be put in its correct order.