Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I can confirm that all MPs who have had their calls listened to have indeed been informed. I can also inform the hon. Gentleman that I have now received an interim report from the chief inspector, which is being made available to Members of Parliament through the Library. The chief inspector’s interim findings are that there is no systemic problem and that the situation has improved substantially since 2012, but he recommends a number of other things we can do to improve the situation still further.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

T4. What progress are the Government making on the introduction of a women’s justice board? The important question asked earlier by hon. Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) emphasised the need to address such issues.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Simon Hughes)]

The coalition Government are clearly committed to making sure that we reduce the reoffending and imprisonment of women. As my hon. Friend knows, at the moment I chair an advisory board on female offenders, which is very helpful and successful—indeed, it is meeting this afternoon—in making sure we have a good policy. The introduction of a women’s justice board has been put forward. As it happens, our party, the Liberal Democrats, supports the policy. It is not yet an agreed policy across government, but I am determined that we will do as much as we can with the present structure in the rest of this Parliament, even though we might be able to change it in the next Parliament.

Fatal Domestic Violence

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 5th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to secure a debate on this sensitive and important issue. I am grateful that the Minister is in is place to hear the case for peer support and advocacy services for the families of domestic homicide victims.

Our understanding of the full effects of domestic homicide is still emerging, but I will give my perspective. I was a criminal barrister for many years, and I dealt with homicide, murder and manslaughter cases. I thought that I had a deeper understanding than most people of the effects on the families of victims, but I realised after discussions with expert advocate services that the family’s journey does not end at the door of the court when the verdict is passed and the sentence is handed down. Often, that is only the first stage of a long, arduous process through which families have to go.

A domestic homicide, whether it is murder, manslaughter or another form of death, profoundly changes a family’s life in an instant. For example, the surviving children may have witnessed abuse or the killing, or they may have lost a sibling. They may have lost both parents if the perpetrator parent either committed suicide or is held securely. The family property immediately becomes a crime scene, the criminal justice system must be navigated and the health and financial costs of that need to be challenged. Information that is vital to the family may have to be held back so they are not compromised as witnesses. At the same time, they must deal with the grief that results from the loss of their loved ones and the private personal details of their lives will be made public. It is a self-evident truth that the aftermath of such a death is traumatic. It raises issues that nobody the family knows has ever had to deal with before, and thrusts the family into contact with agencies with which they never thought they would have to engage. In an instant, they are in a strange, troubling new world.

Specialist advocacy and support is desperately needed for those families. There is a real concern that the Government’s well-intentioned proposal to give a grant to one prime service provider while withdrawing direct grants to smaller specialist and expert providers will reduce the number of families who are provided with specialist expert and independent support after domestic homicide. The Government recognise that that sort of support helps families to cope with and recover from the trauma.

The organisation Advocacy After Fatal Domestic Abuse is directed by somebody whom I regard as a friend, Frank Mullane. It is an award-winning service that is funded from a number of sources, and for a number of years it has received welcome and helpful contributions from the Government. It provides specialist services to some categories of families—in particular, families who were bereaved before April 2010, for whom Victim Support’s homicide service currently has no responsibility and for whom the homicide service provider will not have responsibility from October 2014, and families whose tragedy attracts a section 9 domestic homicide review. The Government brought that important provision into force, and I warmly welcome their decision. However, a number of organisations already refer families to AAFDA for domestic homicide reviews, and Victim Support’s homicide service signposts families to the organisation. The word “signpost” is important, because Victim Support uses the word “refer” only for organisations that it directly commissions using its budget. AAFDA has an excellent relationship with Victim Support’s homicide service, and the two organisations collaborate effectively on behalf of many families.

Victim Support’s homicide service signposts families to AAFDA for help not only with that issue, but also with inquests, serious case reviews, mental health inquiries and other matters. Families also directly approach the organisation, and it has an input into Independent Police Complaints Commission inquiries. It does a range of work, and engages with local employers, service providers and other agencies to provide a full package of support.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent case. I entirely agree about the excellent work of Frank Mullane. As my hon. Friend is aware, the police must appoint a family liaison officer to support the families of victims on every occasion. However, a problem that has not been resolved is that in murder and killing cases, the perpetrator, until convicted, is treated as the next of kin of the deceased and the children.

[Mr Buckland]

That is right, and that relationship often leads to manipulation after the event. The intercession, the support and the advocacy service are vital if we are to prevent families from reliving the trauma, as has happened in many sad examples.

The Minister will be aware of the report that was completed in July 2011 by the former Commissioner for Victims and Witnesses, Louise Casey. It was the largest survey of bereaved families ever undertaken; more than 400 families revealed the toll of bereavement. Louise Casey concluded that the devastating effects of homicide manifested in many ways. She rightly concluded:

“these effects persist for many years.”

That is why I said that the criminal trial is often only the beginning of the journey for the family.

Louise Casey identified the enduring needs of families after homicide, and she provided several important conclusions. First, many families who were bereaved before April 2010 still need the support of specialist agencies after October 2014. There is a concern that the funding for the homicide services for those families has not been dealt with adequately. Secondly, many families who were bereaved after April 2010 still require ongoing support. They already seek out AAFDA and other small specialist organisations during the time that the current national homicide service provider is engaged and afterwards.

From 1 October, the prime service provider will have to have an exit strategy with families, or its capacity will eventually be insufficient because of the numbers that will come to the service. For many families, the journey through the criminal justice system alone may take several years. For example, some domestic homicide reviews are necessarily suspended until the end of the criminal trial, and some inquests may not take place until several years after the tragedy. I know of an example of a family who are about to face an inquest that will last for several weeks, two and a half years after the homicides.

A further problem arises because families’ emotional and practical needs often do not emerge until years have passed since the homicide. It is then that the smaller specialist organisations such as AAFDA will be approached to help those families cope and recover. In reality, and as history shows, many families need help to cope and recover after the homicide service has exited the process. That is no reflection on the services provided by the homicide service, but it is simply a fact of life that the amount of time that people need to cope and recover often will not match the resources that are available. There is a concern that those families will not get the support that they need.

Although the Government’s aim is that from October this year, the prime homicide services provider will commission other services that families need, there is a worry that the expertise of small organisations such as AAFDA may be overlooked, and if it is not overlooked, that the funding available will be insufficient to make the service sustainable. That will result in fewer families getting the support that they need.

I cannot overemphasise the expertise and skill of AAFDA. It is a registered charity that was formed in 2008 and which has strong connections with Swindon, where my constituency is. It has become expert on domestic homicide, domestic violence and supporting families after these horrors, including support through the criminal justice system. It has been recognised by both the previous Government and this one as a leader in its field.

AAFDA has three specialist caseworkers, two of whom lost family members to homicide, and the other who has 30 years’ operational and strategic experience in the domestic violence sector. In addition, it has a volunteer criminologist and a volunteer barrister who give significant pro bono help. One of AAFDA’s caseworkers is considered to be a national expert on stalking, and the other two caseworkers, including the director, Frank Mullane, are Home Office accredited chairs of section 9 domestic homicide reviews. AAFDA is, of course, a member of the Home Office panel that quality assures those reviews.

Frank is rightly credited with being the driving force behind domestic homicide reviews becoming law in England and Wales and helped draft some parts of the statutory guidance. He has a now-growing academic expertise, being a visiting lecturer and assessor at the university of Gloucestershire, and he works closely with universities both at home and abroad. He is continually learning about developments in the sector. Having attended, for the past four years, the annual conference of AAFDA, held in Swindon, I too, have learnt a lot about this area. I have met some of the families being helped by the organisation and I have listened to speakers from as far afield as Sweden, Ireland and indeed, from many parts of England. AAFDA is also a member of key national forums, advising the College of Policing, the Association of Chief Police Officers, the Crown Prosecution Service and those of us—me included—who are looking to develop legislation on domestic abuse.

In the brief time I have left, I want to give some case examples of the importance of the ability of the organisation to stand in the shoes of those who have been victims of domestic homicide. The fact that we are dealing with immeasurable grief almost goes without saying, but let me give an example of one family. A woman—a mother and sister—was killed by her husband. The family had to summon up the strength to clean the bloodstains from the house where the victim was killed—just imagine that for a moment. As one family member said to the media,

“it's like being told—it's not your mess, but you clean it up.”

That is a graphic, I accept, but important illustration of the ordeal that people have to go through, not only in losing somebody, but in physically dealing with the aftermath of a homicide.

That family are being helped and have been helped for more than three years. They have been given expert advice and guidance on which organisations they needed to go to to get the information that they needed, otherwise they would have been in isolation. That family have channelled their resilience into providing well thought through and skilful challenges to the various bodies in the system, and it is an important example of what can be achieved to the benefit of those who have suffered.

Another example is where uninformed advice had been given to a family about a domestic homicide review, and because of that uninformed advice, they had declined to participate. As a result of signposting to AAFDA, they were given proper, expert advice. The process was explained and the family changed their mind. They participated in the review, and the review itself has benefited hugely from the involvement of the family. It has given them an opportunity to participate and to explain from their point of view the challenges that the system posed to them.

It is all about identifying and achieving the objectives of the family while managing their expectations, because for many families, finding out the facts of the case and what happened can be a huge difficulty, for some of the reasons I outlined earlier. Helping families to acquire that information may serve at least two purposes. First, as the Prime Minister acknowledged when he gave evidence to the Liaison Committee in 2013 about the awful case of Jacintha Saldanha—the Bristol nurse who took her own life after the very sad hoax call from broadcasters in Australia—the family absolutely need the truth. They need the facts.

Secondly, and this is important, significant public resources may later be avoided as a result of the resumption of inquiries that have been justifiably sought by the families because the initial inquiry had been wholly inadequate. Many of these families cannot afford solicitors, but they need—this is undeniable—help from those who have considerable experience of the system. As I have said, the work that AAFDA does with regard to inquests is very significant. It is an advocacy service that helps a family to understand the process and how they can participate and prepare for the ordeal itself.

I have given a few family examples, but I want to give one further example of a family who talked with passion about the action plan that was set out by AAFDA. That action plan gave that family a sense of where to go and what to do and allowed them to move forward. AAFDA helped to make sense of the process to the family in a way that just was not happening for them without its input.

As I have said, AAFDA is influencing the practice of domestic homicide reviews to include family and friends. It first influenced the Government to ensure that that was stated clearly in the statutory guidance, and its caseworkers continue to advocate strongly on behalf of families, so that reviewers understand that the family is to be given space and to be integral to the reviews, rather than lip service just being given to their involvement. Without families being able to influence the reviews, frankly, they become meaningless. They become talking shops and they become ineffective.

As I said, there are concerns about the way in which funding will be configured from October this year. Although AAFDA is already working with police and crime commissioners such as Angus Macpherson in Wiltshire, there is a difficulty for them directly to fund the work because the incidence of domestic homicide in many police areas will be low. Therefore, the nature of that specialist work will, by dint of its relative rarity, have to be in a national framework. That is why, we understand, the funding is being administered centrally. I would be grateful if my right hon. Friend the Minister could not only acknowledge the value of the work by organisations such as AAFDA, but look carefully again at the funding mechanism to make sure that this invaluable service and others like it are not lost to those families in real need.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I will happily consider that. The hon. Gentleman makes a reasonable point. It is for the judge to decide in each individual case, and it is not for Ministers at the Dispatch Box to decide what judges do in each individual case. We are already taking a range of steps to protect people who may be victims of domestic violence, and I am always happy to look at others.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

On a similar point, the families of victims of capital crimes, as well as coping with bereavement, will usually be unaware of their rights and the responsibilities of authorities to assist them in protecting the memory, reputation, estate and so on of the deceased. What assessment has my right hon. Friend made of the support available to victims’ families in such circumstances?

[Damian Green]

I think I know the case to which my hon. Friend is referring, as he and I have discussed it in Westminster Hall. He will be aware that I wrote to him on 4 December on the detailed issue. Victims of all kinds require support and are getting better support. As he knows, the specific issues related to cases such as he describes are being considered at present.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Jeremy Wright)]

What the hon. Lady says is very interesting and we will look at the details. She is of course right that it has a huge impact on young people when one of their parents serves time in custody. There is a knock-on effect on the likelihood of those young people going on to commit crimes themselves. Shockingly, something like 60% of young men who have had a parent in custody go on to commit crimes themselves. She is right to make that link and we will look at what she has said.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

T5. The forfeiture rule precludes a person who has been convicted of unlawfully killing another person from acquiring benefit in consequence of the killing. However, if the deceased person is a close family friend, a spouse or a close family member, their killer can use and abuse the estate until they are convicted. Will the Government consider addressing that issue? Will the Minister meet me to explore whether the rule can be improved in that respect?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Shailesh Vara)]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. I would be more than happy to meet him to discuss the matter further.

Police Treatment of Alleged Perpetrators and Victims

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Westminster Hall

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I am delighted to have secured this opportunity to explore the relative rights, in effect, of alleged perpetrators and perpetrators of crime, in contrast to the rights and treatment of victims and victims’ families. I particularly want to draw attention to a case that I have been pursuing for some time as a Member of Parliament. Not only am I raising this matter because it raises specific points relating to a specific case, but because of wider concerns and the ramifications and consequences for the treatment of other cases and for the rights and treatment of victims in those cases.

Developing this case has been a challenge, because I have, of course, taken my points to the Ministry of Justice, as I should, because parts of the case, and cases relating to how victims are treated in the criminal justice process, are within the curtilage and responsibility of that Department, and to the Home Office, because they also fall within its curtilage and responsibility. Over the years, I have, on behalf my constituents who have raised these questions—I will refer to them in a moment—had to pursue these matters through two Departments. I am delighted that the Policing Minister is here.

The questions are primarily concentrated on competence and on the discretion of the police in their response to capital offences, such as the ones that I will mention. Where are the rights of victims and families, where they potentially conflict with those of killers and alleged killers, or where a killer has already admitted guilt and admitted that they killed a person before their conviction? We are looking at the period in which decisions are taken that have consequences for the victims and the victims’ estate and record, before conviction.

Of course, we assume that killers’ rights are effectively surrendered, or at least subordinate to those of the victims. We believe, and the public would normally expect, that concern for, and consequences for, victims would be uppermost in our minds, and that we would go out of our way to support and protect the interests of victims.

I have two primary purposes in raising this case today. First, I seek to ensure that the rights of victims are not subordinated by the rights of perpetrators, particularly in cases where alleged perpetrators admit guilt or responsibility before conviction. This is especially the case in circumstances that involve the killing or murder of a family member. If a killer is next of kin, in my view they surrender their rights to have a superior claim over the victim’s other immediate blood relatives. Secondly, I wish to ensure that lessons arising from incompetence or failure—in respect of both the handling of the investigation and the lack of support for the victim’s family in the case of Claire Oldfield-Hampson, under Operation Ramsgate—have been learned, apologies given and systems improved.

I will refer specifically to the case of the killing of Claire Oldfield-Hampson, which I have mentioned in two previous parliamentary debates. First, I need to place this matter in context. The context, most recently, is the Home Secretary’s correct response to recent allegations about the investigation into the Stephen Lawrence case. That response is most welcome and I think that those who are concerned about the treatment of victims and their families will gain a great deal of succour and encouragement from it. After all, Stephen Lawrence was just 18 when he was murdered on 22 April 1993. We are talking about a case that goes back more than 20 years. It is right that, when further evidence has emerged and further allegations have been made, the Home Secretary has raised the prospect of ensuring that those matters are subject to further investigation and review. The killing of Claire Oldfield-Hampson took place in September 1996, but if some matters are still not resolved, I encourage my hon. Friend the Minister to look carefully at that case and, if necessary, instigate further reviews.

Just last month, the Home Secretary announced that the latest allegations of misconduct in the Stephen Lawrence investigation will be investigated by the chief constable of Derbyshire, Mick Creedon, as part of Operation Herne. She also announced the circulation of a new code of integrity for the police. My constituents and I are pleased for and supportive of the Lawrence family and hope that the principle of re-opening cases is not constrained by them achieving a certain level of televisual or media interest.

I repeat myself to an extent today and for that I offer no apology. I still need, and my constituents need, evidence that lessons are being learned and that improvements are being made, following clear failings on the part of the Cambridgeshire constabulary, which was responsible for investigating the killing of Claire Oldfield-Hampson. Even now, some issues of responsibility for her estate remain to be resolved. I believe that the law needs to be reviewed, to rebalance the respective rights of victims and alleged perpetrators, as does how the Home Office and, more specifically, the police conduct themselves in handling cases such as these.

We assume that killers surrender their rights and are given lesser rights than their victims. A victim and their grieving family should be given greater consideration and protection than a killer. That is what most people would assume. They would assume not that killers lose all their rights—they certainly have a right to a fair trial—but that consideration for victims would be superior to consideration for the killer’s sensitivities, particularly if the killer has already admitted that they perpetrated a crime. However, when a husband kills his wife, he continues to enjoy next of kin rights, and vice versa.

Should a child be placed with the killer’s family or with the victim’s blood relatives? Should the victim’s personal effects, diaries, estate and family heirlooms from before marriage go to the killer’s family or to the victim’s blood relatives? Who should have the greatest right of appeal against court rulings and sentences? In the interests of natural justice, people would expect the victim’s family to have the greatest rights and consideration, but they will be shocked to learn—as I was—that if a killer is next of kin, he enjoys greater rights than the victim’s family. The victim’s family even have to ask the killer for permission to give the victim a funeral.

I will provide a bit of background, although I know the Minister has already been given a great deal of material on this case. I have been raising issues on behalf of my constituent from St Ives, Joanne Bryce, for several years. Joanne’s sister, Claire Oldfield-Hampson, was killed by her husband, David Hampson, on 25 September 1996 at their home in the town of March, Cambridgeshire. He buried her body in the garden, and it was exhumed on 16 December 1998.

In what I have previously described as an “horrific injustice,” Hampson was convicted of the diminished charge of manslaughter, a charge that was mentioned to the family only a few days before the hearing. The plea was accepted because the Crown Prosecution Service and the judge, on the basis of the evidence that the police were able to gather and provide, ultimately accepted that Hampson had suffered the psychological effects of his wife’s nagging. My constituent, Joanne Bryce, points out that Claire’s character was completely vilified. Nine out of 11 national newspapers ran with the headline, “Nagging wife killed by husband.” It seemed that nagging was the capital crime and the killing was just a minor incident.

All that went unchallenged. Claire’s personal diaries must have included evidence of the family relationship. There were 15 diaries, but they were not used at all in the investigation. Much of the material in Claire’s diaries was not made available at the time or shown to the court. There was also video evidence of Felicity’s relationship with her mother, and Joanne has told me that 66 exhibits would have been placed in the public domain and subject to investigation, had there been a trial.

I know the Minister is not here to address the court case, but I raised the broader issues in a debate on Claire Oldfield-Hampson’s case on 8 January 2001 and in an Adjournment debate on 8 June 2011, in which the then Justice Minister, the hon. Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt), described the case as “mishandled,” which lets off Cambridgeshire constabulary and the CPS rather lightly.

There have been many questions and complaints about the competence of Cambridgeshire constabulary, and it would be easy just to brush the case aside and say, “Well, it’s a question of the competence of one particular constabulary, and those issues need to be looked at. They need to hold their hands up and acknowledge that they have failed, and they need to apologise for their failings.” It would be easy to draw a line there and to make that the end of the matter. Following the debate and the complaints raised by my constituent, Cambridgeshire constabulary asked Bedfordshire police to undertake an investigation into the case, and Bedfordshire police found that Cambridgeshire constabulary had seriously failed on a number of counts.

Cambridgeshire constabulary failed to provide a Home Office information pack to the victims of the crime. In fact, the constabulary provided the Home Office information pack to the family of the killer, arguing that they were victims, too, but it failed to give the information pack to the blood relatives of the person who was killed. The constabulary failed to let the family know that they were entitled to a family liaison officer. Apparently one was appointed, but the family were never told. The constabulary failed to identify to the family that there was a senior investigating officer.

We all know that we are not used to dealing with such processes, and we do not know what support the police are expected to provide. People cannot ask the question, “Where is our family liaison officer?” if they do not know that one is supposed to be provided. The last thing that people who are grieving, bereaved, angry, confused and sad about such a tragic event would know is their right to the kind of support that on this occasion the family clearly failed to receive.

There was a failure to provide information about the criminal injuries compensation scheme, particularly in relation to the funeral expenses. There was a failure to obtain evidence of Claire’s character, and, ultimately, the Director of Public Prosecutions wrote a letter to me a few years later, in 2003, apologising for allowing her character to be assassinated in court by the case in mitigation as a result of the police investigation’s failure to achieve a balanced inquiry.

There was a failure to investigate fraud and theft by the killer, too, because the police felt that, as they were going for the murder charge, fraud and theft were less important, and therefore they were swept away and ignored. The family were also denied access to their niece and granddaughter. Claire Oldfield-Hampson’s mother, Mary Oldfield, who was living in the area at the time that Claire’s body was exhumed, was unable to go back to live in the area and came to live with Joanne Bryce in my constituency.

The police also gave out to the media the address and phone number of Joanne Bryce without her permission. In reply to the Bryce family’s complaints about abusive phone calls from the killer’s sister, the family were told, “Well, she is a victim, too.” The family received one phone call at 10.45 pm on 16 December 1998 informing them that Claire’s body had been found and that she had been murdered, but no one offered any help. The family saw Cambridgeshire constabulary for the first time three weeks later.

Other matters of complaint and concern arise from the case. Joanne Bryce was told to get Claire’s bones moved from a hospital in Peterborough or the family would get a big bill. Of course, the family needed to get the killer’s permission before they could make contact with an undertaker or make arrangements for a funeral. How would anyone feel if they were told in those terms that they are responsible for resolving the matter but that they do not have the power themselves to ensure that the funeral takes place?

Cambridgeshire constabulary says that it investigated Claire’s bank accounts and that the documents were returned as not used by the CPS. When Joanne Bryce was advised by the bank manager that she must get copies of statements after the trial, she was told that those bank statements had never been asked for.

Victims’ families should not have to beg the killer’s family for family effects. All that my constituents have to remember Claire by is her wedding dress and an out-of-date passport. The war medals of her uncle, who died before Claire met and married her husband, her grandmother’s crockery, photographs and certificates were all denied Claire’s blood family, who were not allowed to enter her home. Meanwhile, the killer’s family, or indeed his girlfriend, could go in at any time and take things away.

If possessions of the victim are found years later in the hands of the police force, under the Senior Courts Act 1981, the family and victims should be advised and allowed to claim them. That was mentioned to me during the debate in 2011, the first time that my constituents were aware of that right. Those possessions should not have been sent to the perpetrator’s family, and the victim’s family should not have been told that the only way to recover them was by raising their own case in court through civil action, but that is effectively what the Bryce family were told about diaries dating back to 1983, long before the couple married.

I have spoken to many agencies about the issue, including Victim Support, which is considering it. Victim Support told me that when the next of kin is the perpetrator of the crime, it causes many issues, including, for example, for children’s carers, who must seek permission from the legal parent for even the simplest tasks, such as taking the children on holiday. However, the issue relates to family law, which is civil, not criminal. Unfortunately, neither the police nor other criminal justice agencies have control over the matter; it must proceed through family courts with the assistance of social services.

I am aware that the issue of next of kin falls into the rather murky territory of what next of kin means, because it is not specifically defined for all purposes. The forfeiture rule, which was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate during our last debate, is an instance of the wider principle that a person should not be allowed to profit from his or her crime. I do not think anyone is saying that in cases of domestic violence, profit is necessarily in the mind of the killer at the time, but taking advantage of the situation and disallowing the victim’s family access to the effects, estate and memory of their blood relative who has been killed is a matter that needs to be resolved. It is not a question of killing or murder in order to obtain the benefit of the estate for profit.

I have also heard from Refuge, which I am sure the Minister is aware is running a strong campaign at the moment to open a public inquiry into domestic violence in relation to the domestic homicide victim Maria Stubbings and many other cases. Refuge has a public petition that it is urging people to sign, and it is also supported by 38 Degrees.

The Government still need to address more issues than that of competence in this case. In my judgment, almost everything that could go wrong in the handling of an investigation and the relative rights of victims and perpetrators did go wrong in this case; everything that could be mishandled was mishandled. Cambridge constabulary make the calamitous Keystone Cops look like a highly professional and effective law enforcement agency.

Also—this is critical—I urge the Government to review the issue seriously and undertake a great deal of purposeful, although not lengthy, reflective work on considering how the interests of victims and their immediate blood relatives, particularly in cases of the kinds of killing and murder that I am referring to, can be balanced. They clearly have not been in this case. It is not just about mistakes; within the law, police do not have discretion to give victims and their blood relatives the consideration that they deserve. Between the point of arrest and the point of conviction, many serious mistakes are often made that can never be put right. They certainly were made in this case.

That is why I strongly urge the Minister and the Government, across both the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office, to consider the issue seriously and ensure, without denying alleged perpetrators the right to a fair trial, that victims’ interests are properly protected in such cases. I argue that we as a country should be taking a far more precautionary approach to protecting the interest of victims and their estate, and of blood relatives in killings and murders in cases such as the one that I have referred to. We can learn lessons from this case going forward. I fear that the same thing will happen again and again, that victims and their families will not have the right to redress and that when they do, it will be too late.

Although my constituent Joanne Bryce has not raised the matter with me, I happen to know that she has spent the past 15 years seeking expensive legal advice—on one occasion, she sought the advice of a private investigator—and travelling around the country pursuing these issues. She has had to remortgage her house and seek other assistance in order to continue seeking justice. She has not asked for compensation, but I must say on her behalf that I think she deserves some.

The issues raised by the case are extreme and serious. Although I know that I have raised some of them before, I have raised them again because I do not think that we can move on. I certainly know that Joanne Bryce and her family cannot move on. They fear that the lessons have not been learned. Such injustice in the imbalance of rights between alleged perpetrators and victims needs to be re-examined and put right.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

It is a pleasure, as always, to serve under you, Mr Rosindell. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) not only on securing the debate, but on the fact that, as the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) said, he has mounted a campaign of such length and depth on behalf of his constituents. The case he has outlined is tragic and shocking, and we can only have sympathy for the family in those circumstances. My hon. Friend is right to continue to raise the case and to ask questions about the criminal justice system. He said many of his complaints were about the police, while others were about other parts of the criminal justice system. I am not just the Policing Minister at the Home Office, but the Criminal Justice Minister at the Ministry of Justice, so I hope I can deal with a large number of the important issues he raised across the board.

I think it is fair to say that the support for victims and their families has improved dramatically since this terrible case, but there is, absolutely, always more that can and should be done, and more will be done in the coming years. As my hon. Friend mentioned, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt)—the previous prisons Minister—apologised for the way in which the case was handled in the first place, and Cambridgeshire police have also apologised. I apologise now on behalf of all the public agencies involved. Clearly, mistakes were made, and it is the Government’s job to ensure that such mistakes, which cause so much heartache and misery, cannot happen again.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Ives talked about the proceedings of the IPCC, which deals with serious and sensitive complaints against the police. One problem my hon. Friend and the family have had is that Ms Bryce made a complaint in 2004 to the Police Complaints Authority—the IPCC’s predecessor body—so the IPCC was unable, under the Police Reform Act 2002, to reopen the case. There are now instances where matters brought to the PCA’s attention can be reconsidered by the IPCC. We now allow for some cases that were previously investigated to be the subject of further investigation. The circumstances have to be exceptional, and the IPCC must be satisfied that the matters that have been complained about are unusually grave and that there is an overwhelming public interest in the matters being reinvestigated.

[Andrew George]

I was interested to hear the Home Secretary’s statement to the House a couple of weeks ago, when she acknowledged that she had spoken to Dame Anne Owers about the Stephen Lawrence case. Dame Anne had indicated that if issues arose from the investigation of the allegations in that case, she saw a role for the IPCC, even though the police had investigated these matters 20 years ago.

[Damian Green]

The legal block put in place in the 2002 Act referred specifically to complaints that had been referred to the PCA. I can see why it was introduced: to prevent every case the PCA had looked at from being investigated by the new body. However, there are, as I say, very large caveats, and there needs to be exceptional public interest. The matters that have been complained about must be unusually grave, and there must be overwhelming public interest in their being reinvestigated. That is the hurdle, but that possibility is there.

My hon. Friend mentioned the fact that the Criminal Cases Review Commission reviews cases for perpetrators of crime, but not for victims or their families. The CCRC reviews the safety of convictions and sentences on application by, or on behalf of, defendants. Generally, it may do so only when all available avenues of appeal have been exhausted, but, in carrying out its functions, it takes care to ensure that it complies with the spirit of the code of practice for victims, as well as with its obligations under it.

A number of points have been made about how appeal proceedings can, in circumstances such as those we are discussing, appear to favour the perpetrator rather than the families or the victims. Although victims and their families cannot appeal, they can make a personal statement to explain the impact of the crime on them. Any personal statement from a victim or their family that was produced for Crown Court proceedings should have been sent to the Court of Appeal with the other trial papers when the appeal was started. However, a victim or a member of their family can lodge or update a personal statement with the Criminal Appeal Office at any time during appeal proceedings. Obviously, it is better to do such things in good time before the hearing so that judges have time to read the statement, but it is possible to send in the statement at any time up to the day before the hearing. In addition, we intend to include information about victims’ entitlements at the appeal stage of the process in the revised victims’ code.

[Andrew George]

That is extremely helpful; in fact, in the original debate in January 2001, a request was made for victims to have a statement and to have a role in the proceedings—even in the kind of lower-order hearing that was used in this instance to advance the case in mitigation. In Claire Oldfield-Hampson’s case, no one answered the case in mitigation, which resulted in the castigation of her and the appalling way in which her memory was recorded. Is there, therefore, an opportunity to find a means by which the family can, even at this stage, put on the historic record something to counteract the slanderous comments that are now there as a result of the hearing?

[Damian Green]

If I may, I will take that thought away and think about it, because no criminal justice proceedings are continuing, and it is difficult to legislate for something that has already happened. As I say, one thing I hope will come out of these tragic circumstances is that we learn to improve conditions for future victims and their families. I hope I am going some way towards assuring my hon. Friend that lessons have already been learned and continue to be learned. However, I will take his point on board and give it some thought.

My hon. Friend made a powerful point about what can happen to family effects. I can perfectly well appreciate how those are so valuable in such circumstances. It is already the case that the person convicted of murder forfeits his or her right to inherit from the victim. However, as my hon. Friend mentioned, it should remain a fundamental principle of law that a person is innocent until proven guilty, so there are no plans to amend the law to restrict a person’s right to apply for probate before trial or to prevent relatives of a person convicted of murder from inheriting from the victim’s estate.

The current law provides some flexibility, however, so that on application the court can amend or revoke a grant without the consent of the appointed personal representative, in exceptional circumstances; for example, if the personal representative has been convicted of the deceased’s murder. In addition, it is now open to anyone to enter a caveat on the probate register to prevent probate from being granted. For example, a relative of a murder victim could enter a caveat to prevent probate from being granted until the circumstances of the death had been clarified. I hope that is helpful.

[Andrew George]

I am grateful for that advice. Clearly, if it had been available to Joanne Bryce and her family at the time of the events in question, circumstances would be entirely different now. I am sure that had my constituents been aware of such powers they would have sought a caveat on the probate immediately—had they not been grieving and distraught, and unable to act in such a way for themselves.

Can anything be done retrospectively in such cases, and, secondly, can it be made clear that in the twilight world, so to speak, between arrest and conviction, the blood relatives of the victim should be given the best legal advice, to ensure proper protection of their interests and the memory of the person who was killed?

[Damian Green]

The key to the point is the victims’ code. We are about to publish a new version of it, and have been consulting on it for the past few months. It is very important that victims’ rights should be better understood, not least by victims themselves and their families. Members of the public, as well as those who are habitually involved in criminal justice proceedings, need to be more knowledgeable about the code. Victims of crime are entitled to receive information, support and services under the victims’ code. That includes, for example, information about the criminal injuries compensation scheme and the appointment of a family liaison officer. As I have said, awareness of the code is not high enough—not only among victims but among criminal justice practitioners. That is why, as well as revising the code to make it more accessible, we shall use a range of methods, including short leaflet guides, to communicate it more effectively. Awareness will be raised through work with organisations such as Victim Support, whose extensive networks operate locally in every part of the country.

Structural changes made since the late 1990s and early 2000s will serve generally to raise awareness of means of redress, particularly among victims and their families. The most obvious and dramatic have been mentioned: each area will have a police and crime commissioner, whose basic task is to hold the chief constable to account. When there are serious complaints, such as there clearly were in the case that my hon. Friend has raised, the PCC will be the first point to go to; that is where there would be someone whose local responsibility was, in the case in question, to hold to account the Cambridgeshire force. That will be a significant step forward.

[Andrew George]

I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way once more. One hopes that people will not need to reach the point of making complaints. As I think I have shown, it is often too late when the point of contacting the police and crime commissioner is reached. Given that the case I have raised highlights an appalling contortion of justice, in which permission must be given by a killer for the blood relatives to get access to the death certificate, so a funeral can proceed, can my right hon. Friend at least tell me that we have learned that lesson? Can anything be done to avoid that absurdity in future? Surely families of the victim of a killing should not have to ask the killer for permission to proceed with a funeral.

[Damian Green]

I quite understand the point. I hope that, partly through the victims’ code, and by other means, we will be able to consider some of the specific serious issues that arise in the terrible case in question. Two more reforms are being brought in to help to prevent repetitions of some of the problems that arose, one of which was mentioned by the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson).

Firstly, to take up my hon. Friend’s point, we want to prevent recurrences: redress is important, but prevention is always the priority. The College of Policing has the precise task of raising professional standards throughout the many vital activities of the police. I hope that in relation to the case that my hon. Friend has raised the college could provide extremely useful guidance on sensitivity in interface with families, in addition to working on spreading best practice, making it easier and quicker for that to be spread between forces.

Secondly, we have also embarked on a wider reform of the criminal justice system. Much of the reform is about improving efficiency, but some of it is about making things more transparent. For everyone who becomes involved with the criminal justice system—and I take the point that often it will happen to a person once in their lifetime, perhaps because they are a victim or a victim’s relative, and so they do not want the involvement—things should happen in a clear, timely and efficient way, and be clearly explained. People should not be left waiting around for months or years waiting for a decision. That is another significant reform.

I have already mentioned police and crime commissioners, and they are perfectly placed to represent victims’ voices locally. We are legislating in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, which is in Committee at the moment, so that from October next year PCCs will have clear powers to provide or commission the widest possible range of services for victims of crime. As has been mentioned, we have appointed a new Victims’ Commissioner, Baroness Helen Newlove, who began work in March. She is already meeting many victims and their families, to hear their views on the criminal justice system. Indeed, she sits on the criminal justice board that I have set up, which brings together the judiciary, the police, PCCs and various bodies that represent different parts of the system, precisely to drive through such reforms.

To address a particular point that my hon. Friend raised, in April 2011 we introduced domestic homicide reviews on a statutory basis, so that local areas and agencies will identify lessons learned, to help to prevent future homicides and violence, and make improvements. The reviews specifically encourage agencies to work more closely with friends and family members of victims, to see how they can share information at an earlier stage. I assure my hon. Friend and the family of Claire Oldfield-Hampson that we are considering how to improve means of redress for victims—we have discussed that briefly already—so they can hold the criminal justice agencies to account.

We have made a commitment to look at the case for an independent complaints ombudsman for the criminal justice system in the strategy and action plan I referred to. We have consulted on an improved complaints procedure in the new victims’ code, and we are keen to explore whether police and crime commissioners can play a role in ensuring that the high standards of service that we want and expect to see are maintained in every locality.

I am happy to assure my hon. Friend and the right hon. Member for Delyn that the Government are already taking forward many of the improvements that need to happen, and the victims’ code is already statutory. It is in secondary legislation, but any non-compliance may result in judicial review. The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman is responsible for investigating complaints under the code, and there is a high level of compliance. The victim’s personal statement is key. We have consulted on putting victim personal statements in the code for the first time, which would give it a statutory footing. The Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), already has specific responsibility for victims and this area of policy. I am glad that that change has been welcomed on both sides of the House.

Nothing anyone can say can undo the past, but I hope that it is at least clear that our reforms put the Government and the law on the side of the victim and their family. We want to ensure that throughout the criminal justice process there is support for victims of crime and their families, that consideration of their needs and welfare is embedded in the way in which police and criminal justice agencies work, and that those needs are an absolute priority in their work and everything they do.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Djanogly]

No. The hon. Gentleman rather distorts the implications of the legislation. We are capping success fees, which are currently 100%, at 25%.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

On the point about the delay until the review has been undertaken, is that merely a delay or is it a genuine review? If it is a review, what will it consider and will he give an indication of its timetable?

[Mr Djanogly]

Given the timing of this development, we have not thought through the exact procedures of the review, but it will certainly be undertaken before we move to ending the provisions that remain.

We now come to the amendment in lieu passed by the other place in respect of clause 1, and what has been described as a purpose clause. It was suggested variously in the other place yesterday that this amendment would have no effect; that it would have some effect, although that effect was not entirely clear; and that it would have a future effect in guiding successive Lord Chancellors when consideration was being given to what services might be added to the scope of legal aid under clause 8(2).

The difficulty the other place has so far had in establishing the precise effect of the amendment is instructive as this House decides whether it should stand. A duty with an uncertain effect is desirable neither in legislative terms nor for the person attempting to discharge that duty. However, it is the Government’s view that the effects of this duty can be described and are highly undesirable. The amendment would remove the uncontroversial, unambiguous duty the Bill places on the Lord Chancellor to ensure that legal aid is made available according to part 1 of the Bill. This made a clear link between the duty and legal aid. In terms of a clear duty, it does not get much clearer than this. However, the amendment would not only remove that but would replace it with a duty that would bring ambiguity and uncertainty. It refers to “legal services” rather than “legal aid”.

The argument was also made in the other place that the amendment had no effect other than to underline the Government’s commitment to the principle of access to justice. We contend that the imposition of any duty on the Lord Chancellor in legislation must create in law a potential course of action through challenges to the discharge of that duty. If it is accepted that the imposition of such a duty must give rise to a potential course of action, the amendment’s effect must be to bring into question the range of services provided under the Bill. The matter would then turn on the question of which legal services meet people’s needs. That contrasts with the clear and unambiguous duty in clause 1(1) requiring the Lord Chancellor to

“secure that legal aid is made available in accordance with”

part 1.

The Government believe that the question of which legal services meet people’s needs is not relevant to the Bill. Schedule 1 lists the services that Parliament, following consideration of first principles and extensive consultation, believes it appropriate to make available under legal aid. To reopen that question via an ongoing duty would frustrate our intention to bring certainty and clarity to the scope of services funded by legal aid. The amendment would result in only one thing: numerous expensive judicial reviews—more than likely at taxpayers’ expense as the boundaries of the new duty are tested and because the question of which services should be provided would be reopened.

It was said yesterday in the other place that such JR applications would almost certainly fail, and that consequently there would be no cost implications to the amendment. However, even rejected applications have an inherent cost: lawyers are paid legal aid fees for their work up to that point and the Government pay their own lawyers to defend such cases.

I would also like to address the argument put forward in the other place about the amendment’s effect in guiding future Lord Chancellors. It seems novel to include in the Bill an overriding duty that activates when the Lord Chancellor considers adding a service or services to the scope of legal aid. I am not convinced this is possible, and I am certain it is unhelpful. Adding services to the Bill requires the affirmative approval of both Houses. Such a process will be more than adequate to ensure that the Lord Chancellor takes account of the relevant factors when considering what, if any, services should be added to the scope of legal aid.

I emphasise, however, as Lord McNally did in the House of Lords yesterday, that the Bill’s present form arises from extensive debate and consideration across both Houses and reflects decisions about the future nature of legal aid. In short, the amendment is incompatible with the Bill. It would muddy both the duty to which the Lord Chancellor is subject and the scope of services that might be funded.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sadiq Khan]

Of course the Minister is right, but if there is to be a review of the impact on those who suffer from this disease, we will expect the impact of the Jackson changes on the level of damages to serve as a benchmark, rather than the changes affecting victims per se. We hope that the pause will lead to a rethink by the Government.

We hope that the review will consider the impact on access to justice—some say that lawyers may be unwilling to take on such cases, and that as a result they may not be heard—and the interaction of the reforms with the new employers liability insurance bureau. We also believe that the data should take real-life experience into account.

[Andrew George]

The right hon. Gentleman will have heard my intervention on the Minister, when I sought to distinguish between a mere delay in the implementation of the policy and a genuine review. I hoped that the Minister would give me some indication that if the findings of a review required the Government’s policy to be amended in some way, there would be an opportunity for a rethink.

[Sadiq Khan]

Given the calibre of the Ministers involved and that of the Members of both Houses who have engaged in discussions over the last few hours and days, I believe that this will be a genuine review. I am sure that not only sufferers from the disease but colleagues who have been involved would be devastated if it were not.

We welcome the review, but the report needs to be based on proper evidence, and the genuine concerns that exist must be addressed. We support the proposal for a pause, and we are willing to work with the Government to ensure that we get this right.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 17th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

Of course there can be borderline cases, but, with great respect to my hon. Friend, in the vast majority of cases it is fairly obvious whether one is arguing a point of fact or a point of law. In an ordinary welfare case, the question will be whether someone is fit for work or not fit for work, or living or not living at a particular address. When a point of law arises whereby it is not a question of the complexity of the regulations but of the actual meaning of the regulations, somebody like a tribunal judge will know that instantly and think, “That is quite an interesting point of law that I’ve not had before; this will go to the upper tribunal and I will certify that it would be rather nice to have some guidance.” In the end, we have to leave it to tribunals themselves to decide on the facts. Some may be blurred, but by and large, in the vast majority of cases, they will be reasonably clear.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

rose—

[Glenda Jackson]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Clarke]

I will give way once more and then I must get on; otherwise I will take up all the time available myself.

[Andrew George]

Further to the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake), does the scope of the Secretary of State’s amendment exclude lower-tier tribunals, or can it be interpreted in such a manner that lower-tier tribunal appeals that are brought forward on the basis of evidence relating to a matter of law and then taken to an upper-tier tribunal might be included without the need for further regulations?

[Mr Clarke]

I have obviously failed to make myself completely clear, so I will try again. As it stands, the Government’s amendment in lieu applies only to upper tribunals. The right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington and others argue that something similar should be available in lower tribunals and in other cases. I have undertaken to explore whether we can find an alternative method of identifying those limited numbers of cases and getting them certified when they involve a legal principle. As the matter has been raised at this stage of the debate, we have to fall back on saying that we would use our regulation-making powers through a statutory instrument, because we could not possibly draft primary legislation to cover it in the few days that we have left.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell]

I went through 13 years of new Labour, so commenting on short-term populism might not be the most appropriate thing. I would not say: “A plague on all your houses!”, but let us all learn a few lessons.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Just so we are clear about the hon. Gentleman’s position, does he agree that it is unacceptable for anyone to be made homeless as a result of the kind of actions that we are talking about? Does he also agree, as a consequence, that passing new clause 26 in its current form would place an additional burden on the legal aid budget?

[John McDonnell]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Let me press on, because others want to speak. Clearly there are a small number of cases, which we have already identified, that have caused genuine concern. The problem appears to be not with the existing law, but with its operation, as the consultation has made clear. Annington Holdings plc, a property holder of considerable size, said:

“In Annington’s experience enforcement is the crux of the problem; our past experiences have shown that delays arise in removing squatters from properties due to limitations on police resources.”

If the current problem is with police resources, the question—which has been raised by the High Court enforcement officers, the Criminal Bar Association and the Law Society—is whether the police would have the resources to enforce the law if a new offence is created, when they appear to be unable to enforce it against the existing offences. The Met has acknowledged that and is seeking to address it, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith and the Minister have said. The Metropolitan Police Service said in its statement that there was a lack of training and practical knowledge on the law on squatting, particularly section 7 of the 1977 Act, which may be a barrier to effective enforcement, and that it was conducting further training to address the issue.

By criminalising squatting, the new clause certainly does not appear to be needed, but it will have consequences if introduced, some of them unintended. The new law will have consequences for those who will be brought into the criminal justice system for the first time, and it is worth repeating who those people are likely to be. The housing charity Crisis commissioned research into squatting from the centre for regional, economic and social research at Sheffield Hallam university, which was published only a month ago, in September. It found that, by and large, squatters were homeless people. The House of Commons Library note sets out for Members that

“squatting is a common response to homelessness”,

and that

“most homeless people who squat try other avenues to resolve their housing problems before squatting”

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

The Sentencing Council is already under a duty to provide information about the effectiveness of sentencing practice and I am sure that it supplements that advice and information in every possible way. As I have said to my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), we will certainly consider the feasibility of doing such a thing, as it would be valuable, but we are talking about a vast number of cases and not every judge will find it possible to find out exactly what happened in later years to everybody who appeared before him.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

4. What steps he plans to take to protect the public from persons convicted of violent offences.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt)]

We have made it clear that we are committed to retaining the statutory multi-agency public protection arrangements, known as MAPPA. Within MAPPA, the police, prison and probation services are required to work together to manage known violent and other dangerous offenders and so protect the public, including previous victims.

[Andrew George]

I hope that the Minister agrees that the primary purpose of custodial sentencing must be public protection. Does he accept that the greater use of mandatory sentencing runs the risk of judges not being able to use their discretion to ensure that the public are protected in the long run?

[Mr Blunt]

The only element of mandatory sentencing we are contemplating relates to knife crime, so that it is absolutely clear that this House sends a very clear message on that. I am sure that right hon. and hon. Members will think it appropriate that people spend six months in prison when they threaten people with a knife.

Victim Support

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Scott. I am pleased to have secured this debate on the support for victims in the judicial system. Many Members are interested in the subject, and some might wish to take part in the debate. I made it clear to both the Minister and the shadow Minister that I wish to focus on the tragic case of Claire Oldfield-Hampson, which I raised more than 10 years ago in a parliamentary debate on 8 January 2001.

I have been working on the case with Joanne Bryce and her family, who come from my constituency in St Ives. We have pursued a number of issues that have arisen from the killing of Claire Oldfield-Hampson in 1996. Unfortunately, those issues have never resulted in any kind of closure for the family and many remain unresolved. I am pleased to say that my constituent was able to visit me in Parliament today and will be monitoring this debate.

I wish to bring this issue to a number of general conclusions that may be relevant to other cases in today’s debate. I have given the Minister advance notice of the background to the case and the issues that arise that are relevant to his portfolio. A range of concerns fall under the broad umbrella of victim support. No doubt, Members will find that a number of those concerns differ from the ones that they want to raise, but some will be similar.

We are debating this issue on a day when the consultation on the Government’s sentencing policy has come to a close. Although that is not directly relevant to the issues that I raise, there are some indirect references to the manner in which the cases are dealt with. In this instance, the case was mounted in mitigation. In other words, the convicted was prepared to accept a manslaughter charge rather than a murder charge.

I come to this issue in support of my constituents. I have no legal training or any experience of the court system, particularly the criminal justice system. Looking at the issues that have arisen from this case, I have to say that I was overwhelmingly shocked at what I considered to be an absolute travesty of justice. As I said in the debate more than 10 years ago, this is the case of an innocent victim who was treated by the judicial system as if she were the perpetrator of the crime and her husband the victim: the trial primarily dealt with the case in mitigation and did not address any of the points that would have challenged that.

The people whom we are talking about today are the victims of a series of events, which, if their case gets to court, could be described as life-changing, life-defining or, tragically in the case of Claire Oldfield-Hampson, life-ending. The justice system uses as a metaphor the image of the scales—the scales of justice—which have to be balanced. Yet the debate that takes place is often remote from the events themselves and can be conceptual and intellectual. Those engaged in the system never wish to appear to prejudge any case. None the less, the case that I wish to present today shows that victims are often treated in an imbalanced manner by the system itself.

Let me explain the background to the case. According to the courts, Claire Oldfield-Hampson was unlawfully killed by her husband with a hammer on 25 September 1996. He buried her body in a shallow grave in the garden in the early hours of the following day. Within two days, he was using her bank accounts and leading a life of deception involving their seven-year-old child, Felicity, who provided excuses for her mother’s absence.

The deception was perpetrated for two years. Calls in person and by telephone were received by Hampson and further excuses were given. Regular contact was maintained between Felicity and her grandmother, Mary Oldfield, who became a constituent of mine, but who sadly died a few years ago. At that time, she lived only five miles away. Mary met the child on a fortnightly basis. She baked cakes to send to Claire, knitted for her and exchanged Christmas, birthday and wedding anniversary cards. They had been very close. Mary Oldfield gave a cheque for £3,000 to David Hampson to give to Claire to help them through some difficult times and she offered them a car. The family was supportive to the Hampsons in many ways.

The deception continued until the family—Joanne Bryce and her husband, Alex—became increasingly concerned and encouraged the commencement of police investigations in December 1998. Hampson confessed to killing his wife only when it became absolutely clear that there was no other possible explanation for her absence.

Hampson was tried at Northampton Crown court in October 1999. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility because he alleged that he was depressively ill as a result of his wife’s constant nagging.

Judge Francis Allen concluded by accepting that Hampson’s wife behaved in a way that was calculated to impact on his mind. The judge gave Hampson a six-year prison sentence that was then reduced to four years on appeal in July 2000. He was released in December 2000, only 14 months after the original trial.

During the two-year deception, Hampson plundered Claire’s bank account, shares and insurances to the tune of £11,000 and fraudulently claimed benefits. The intention of seeking a conviction for fraud was dropped on the grounds that Hampson would ultimately be tried for a more serious capital offence. Four days before the original trial, the Crown Prosecution Service accepted a plea for manslaughter. No witnesses were called; there was no jury; and the trial took under an hour. If anyone wishes to read an example of what I consider to be injustice, they should read the transcript of that trial, which was purely a case in mitigation.

Claire Oldfield-Hampson was killed by her husband in 1996 and then she was exhumed by the state from the garden that she had been buried in, dragged along to the court and slaughtered again in public—verbally. It was a travesty, frankly. I urge people to look at this case. If it is an example of what our judicial system does, we should be ashamed of what we do in the name of the victims of capital offences, such as murder and manslaughter.

In fact, there were several travesties in the court, beginning with the opening words of the defence counsel. The defence counsel said that Hampson was

“a man of good character”.

Hampson killed his wife; buried her in the garden; took her money from her; deceived her family and the world; involved a child in that deception; attempted to defraud the benefit system; fraudulently accepted money from his mother-in-law; and he only accepted his guilt at the 11th hour. In addition, he had a less than impressive—in fact, it was rather dubious—employment record. Apart from all that, perhaps he was a man of good character, but the rest of it does not look very good, does it? Nevertheless, we were told that he was

“a man of good character”.

We were also told that Hampson was depressively ill and that there was a causal link between that illness and the killing. Two years after the killing, he was seen by two psychiatrists. Basically, the case for prosecuting him for manslaughter rather than murder was based on what I described at the time and still describe now as the flimsy science of retrospective psychiatry. Somehow, it is thought that a psychiatrist can determine the state of mind of someone two years previously—someone who, as the evidence shows, was known to be very successful at deceiving people—yet Hampson was able, in my view, to deceive everyone involved in the whole system into believing that he had taken those actions and killed his wife as a result of her constant nagging, which we were told had impacted on his mind. In fact, we were told that the nagging was calculated to impact on his mind. So we were told that Claire was constantly nagging Hampson, making him depressively ill. Once again, however, there was little corroborative evidence and no opportunity for proper cross-examination.

Perhaps what was most hurtful of all were the claims made in the case that Felicity, Claire’s seven-year-old daughter, had

“received very little love or affection from her mother”.

The transcript of the case continues, saying that Felicity

“turned very much more to her father, who was a warm, kind and loving parent to her.”

I sent the Hansard report of the 2001 debate in Parliament on this case to the then Director of Public Prosecutions, David Calvert-Smith, and subsequently I met him to take him through what I considered to be some of the inadequacies in the system. We went through some of the issues and indeed he wrote to me again in August 2001 to try to contradict some of the claims that I had made to him. The claim that Claire’s daughter received very little love or affection from her mother might sound like a rather subjective assessment, but I felt that it was very significant and that I should say so. Joanne Bryce and her husband demanded a police investigation, which was undertaken by Bedfordshire police, as a result of the complaints that were made about the way that Claire’s family were treated.

Then David Calvert-Smith wrote to me out of the blue in December 2002 with a letter of apology, which I thought was very noteworthy. In that letter, which is dated 24 December 2002, he said:

“Specifically, in my letter of 7 August 2001 third paragraph I asserted there was no evidence on the prosecution file to support the statement “that Claire loved her daughter very much”. At the time of the prosecution and indeed at the time I wrote to you that was correct. What has now become apparent from the Bedfordshire enquiry is that had other witnesses been seen and interviewed during the original investigation and other sources of information examined and revealed to the CPS, then that assertion (that there was no evidence that Claire loved her daughter) should not, and would not, have been made. Although not directly privy to the Bedfordshire Police enquiry, the Chief Crown Prosecutor for Cambridgeshire and his staff have been assisting that Force’s investigation in every possible way. I do not know and cannot anticipate what the eventual outcome of that enquiry will be”—

etc, etc. He continued:

“My statement will understandably have caused distress to Mr and Mrs Bryce. I am sorry that you and they were given what has now been revealed to be wrong information.”

The fact is that one of the fundamental arguments in mitigation was the charge that Claire was an uncaring and unloving mother and a nagging wife. Of course, just a small amount of additional investigation proved that charge to be untrue.

Quite apart from what, in my view, was the travesty of justice meted out to the memory of Claire Oldfield-Hampson by two courts of law, a number of other issues need to be addressed. Some of them have been addressed by the Government since the trial. The Crown Prosecution Service at Huntingdon had said that the charge would never be downgraded from murder to manslaughter, yet Claire’s family were told only five days before the trial that the charge would be manslaughter rather than murder when the CPS phoned to let them know, giving them no opportunity to have a discussion or to challenge why.

My constituent, Joanne Bryce, points out:

“There was no trial only a hearing with no jury and no witnesses, and no-one to challenge the information that had been taken from Hampson.”

Only Hampson’s argument was heard. Joanne also pointed out:

“There was a complete character vilification of Claire – 9 out of 11 national newspapers ran with the headline “Nagging Wife killed by husband”. It seemed that nagging was the capital crime and the killing just a minor incident. All this went unchallenged…Claire’s personal diaries must have evidence of family relationship”.

There was certainly a lot of material in Claire’s diaries that was never made available at the time or shown to the court. There was also video evidence about Felicity’s relationship with her mother and Joanne notes that

“there were 66 exhibits which had there been a trial would have been in the public domain.”

I have already mentioned the flimsy science of retrospective psychiatry. The police failed to provide a Home Office information pack; they did not provide a family liaison officer and there was a failure to identify the senior investigating officer, so Claire’s family were never told who that officer was. There was a failure to provide information about the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme in respect of the funeral expenses; there was a failure to obtain evidence of Claire’s character; there was a failure to investigate fraud and theft; and the family were denied access to Felicity, who had been placed in the care of the murderer’s family.

There are other issues that have arisen that I want the Minister to address, particularly the fundamental right of a murderer to remain the next of kin of their victim. As a result, the murderer still has the right to access the estate of the person they have murdered, in the case of a domestic killing such as this one, so my constituent, the sister of the woman who had been killed, had no right of access to the house, whereas the murderer’s family could go in and help themselves to what they wished. She had to plead with the murderer for access to the death certificate to proceed with the funeral. The murderer had full access to all the family heirlooms and to Claire Oldfield-Hampson’s records from way before they first met, but all of that was denied to the blood relatives.

I think the Minister knows the question I wish to ask today. Is it not right that someone charged with a capital offence, but not yet convicted, should have such rights at least suspended, if not removed entirely? I cannot understand how this kind of situation can occur in this country, with a murderer having control over the estate and life memory of the person they have murdered. Should we not be addressing ourselves to these issues?

There was a swathe of other failings in the case, many of which were identified by the Bedfordshire police investigation. The report of the investigation was submitted in December 2002, but even now, nearly 10 years on, the family are seeking to gain access to the full version, which contains more than 100 redactions.

Before today’s debate, I sent the Minister my notes, and I urge him to look carefully at the case and address the issues that I have outlined. I had hoped that the Claire Oldfield-Hampson case was a one-off, but since then other people have contacted me about similar ones. Recently, Angela Geddes of Carnoustie in Angus contacted me. She spoke out after her father Roger admitted killing his wife Ann at the couple’s home there. She gave me a newspaper cutting, which states:

“The daughter of a woman killed in a horrific axe attack by her husband has hit out at a decision to allow her father to plead guilty to a reduced charge of culpable homicide. Speaking after her father Roger Geddes admitted killing wife Ann, the couple’s daughter Angela Geddes said: ‘The family are devastated at the lack of justice and the charade we have seen in court’.”

That case is in the different legal context and judicial system of Scotland, but the killing took place only last year and the same argument applies. Angela Geddes says:

“I do believe he has managed to deceive the psychiatrists who do not know his true colours and only hope he shows them before he is released and becomes a danger to my family and the wider public.”

Again, just last year psychiatric evidence was used to mount a case in mitigation.

It is a good thing that this Government and the previous Government have committed resources to Victim Support and other advocates for victims. There is also the code of practice for victims of crime, but even Victim Support has contacted me to complain that although the code covers most of the issues,

“Local Criminal Justice Boards have now been asked to stop reporting on it to the Ministry of Justice, meaning it’s now essentially not being enforced. This bodes very badly for victims”.

[Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman paints a very vivid picture of the trials of his ongoing fight for justice for his constituents. I was interested to read the extract from Hansard that he sent us, of a speech he made in the House in 2001:

“First and foremost, our justice system should consider the victims and their families. After all, it is primarily on their behalf that our society seeks to uphold the law and administer justice. Victims are already grieving and aggrieved parties. The process should not leave them more aggrieved.”—[Official Report, 8 January 2001; Vol. 360, c. 852.]

In my constituency, James McVey, a young man of just 18 years of age, lost his life to what is sometimes termed “a one-punch assault.” Does the hon. Gentleman agree that at times far too much emphasis is placed on the rights of the perpetrators of acts of violence and not on the rights of their victims?

[Andrew George]

Although I say it myself, I could not have put it better myself. The hon. Gentleman’s point is absolutely right. The conclusion that we draw from these kinds of cases is that the perpetrators appear to be treated with a great deal more respect than the victims. I do not think that we have the balance right; the scales of justice have tipped over too far in some cases.

I am aware that many other people wish to take part in the debate and I apologise for having spoken at such length, but I feel very passionately about this deeply concerning matter. I have these questions for the Minister. Does he agree that the issues raised by this case and by the difficulty that we have had in trying to secure justice, clarity and closure, would benefit from a departmental review? What progress has been made in the 10 years that have passed since I first raised the issues, and what progress still needs to be made? Although the introduction of victim statements has helped, they have been rather intermittent and not widely used, so what further proposals are there to ensure that victims and their families receive fair treatment? Does the Minister agree that it is appropriate to suspend the rights of people charged with murder and manslaughter, including their entitlement to be next of kin, hold the death certificate and handle the victim’s estate, and finally, does he agree that claims made in mitigation should be open to challenge in court by victims and their families?

My constituents have been unable to achieve what they seek: closure. In fact, the further they look into the case the further they appear to be from closure. We would certainly welcome an opportunity to meet the Justice Minister to ensure that lessons are learnt from this and the many other cases in which we believe justice has not been served.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Crispin Blunt)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) on securing this timely debate about the wider topic of support for the victims of crime and the narrow case he raised. He is a doughty champion of his constituents and for a decade he has worked on their behalf on the case he mentioned. We should respect the determination with which he represents his constituents.

I begin by making it absolutely clear that the Government are committed to placing victims and their families at the front and centre of the criminal justice system. I view my remit as the Minister responsible for victims and for the wider issue of offender management through the prism of victims. Let us consider the system changes we are trying to deliver around, for example, work in prisons. What are they for? They are to generate the resources for offenders to compensate their victims and to create more resources to assist the victims of crime. One proposal in the Green Paper is to make it a duty for sentencers to consider a compensation order as the first point of departure in their sentencing. Hon. Members will have to wait until we formally respond to the consultation and introduce the legislation, but I do not see anyone demurring from strengthening that duty. That is the direction of policy—to ensure that victims are our consideration.

The future victims of crime, as my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) made clear, are absolutely at the centre of concern. That is why we are advocating a rehabilitation revolution and a complete step change in how offenders are dealt with and managed by our system. If we fail to effectively rehabilitate them while they are in our system, they will go out and reoffend again, and we have to address the dreadful reoffending rates. I suspect that he and I are in the same place on that. The Government face the constraint, of course, of the legacy of the financial position we received from our predecessors.

We are committed to ensuring that criminal justice agencies work to help families through the process of the investigation and trial, and afterwards. We are committed to providing families with a voice in the criminal justice system. We are committed to providing them with the support and the help that they need to deal with the consequences of crime. It is deeply unfortunate that the case raised by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives was mishandled. I understand the pain that such a traumatic experience can cause for bereaved families, but I accept that as much as I might understand the pain, it is beyond the power of any Government or Minister to repair that trauma. All Governments, however, will want to do their reasonable best to continue to improve the service to victims.

Support to victims and their families has improved dramatically since the case described by my hon. Friend. He referred to the work of Joanne Bryce, which, over a prolonged period, has contributed significantly to that improvement. Many of the things that she identified in association with the case have led to direct improvements, which I will cover if I have time. Constantly improving the system will continue.

During the debate, my hon. Friends made some suggestions that I will want to look at. My hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) suggested that there should be a positive duty to explain the absence of a victim impact statement to the parole board hearing. I undertake to look at that extremely good suggestion.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley) drew attention to an anomaly concerning retailers who live above their premises, the recording of crime and the sort of support triggered by victim support in cases of assault. We will constantly look at such suggestions, with the objective of improving the system.

I want to be clear to the Chamber that the law is on the side of the victim and the victim’s family. In the case of homicide, there are safeguards against the offender benefiting from the crime. Under the rules of forfeiture, any person found guilty of murder is automatically disqualified from inheriting property from their victim. In the case of manslaughter, they are disqualified unless a specific court order is granted in their favour. The bereaved family can make an application to the court to ensure that the killer is not responsible for the administration of the victim’s estate, under section 116 of the Senior Courts Act 1981. I understand fully that people who have just suffered such a tragic loss are likely to find the process confusing or complicated. That is one reason why the improvements in support are so important, and why, since October 2009, the Ministry of Justice has supported an advice helpline to provide legal advice to relatives who have been bereaved by homicide, and advice on associated personal and social issues.

[Andrew George]

That is an encouraging reply. Will the Minister clarify whether those rights were in place at the time of the trial that I referred to today? If so, do victims now get a level of support and advice, through those procedures, to ensure that their rights can be enforced and that the perpetrators of homicide are not entitled to determine the outcome of the estate of victims, as happened in the case I raised today?

[Mr Blunt]

That is the case. The right to apply to the court is in the Senior Courts Act 1981, so the right was in place. As my hon. Friend pointed out, however, the family were in ignorance of it. In the spirit of constantly trying to improve the service we provide victims, there is now an advice line for bereaved people in such situations to draw their attention to their rights under the law.

Since the mid-1990s, there has been a great deal of work to improve the experience of victims and their families in the criminal justice system. Criminal justice agencies are more victim-focused and more readily able to take account of victims’ wishes and needs at every stage of the justice process. The courage of victims in coming forward to report crime and giving evidence is central to a strong, fair criminal justice system. Coming forward can sometimes be daunting for victims, especially those who are vulnerable or intimidated. It is therefore right that there are protections for victims in the system and that there are services to which they are entitled and safeguards against further victimisation. We are not complacent, however. There is more work to do and I am currently reviewing the support that victims are given at each stage of the process—investigation, prosecution, trial and beyond.

In 2006, the police and the Crown Prosecution Service worked together to introduce witness care units in every police force area in England and Wales. Witness care units are dedicated teams that keep victims and witnesses updated and informed about developments in a case from a suspect being arrested to an offender being sentenced. They provide victims with vital information on bail conditions, court dates and outcomes. In the same year, the code of practice for victims of crime was introduced. It sets out the services that criminal justice agencies must deliver for victims of crime. It specifies how victims should be kept updated, how often the police and other agencies should contact them, and ensures that the criminal justice system as a whole recognises the central role of victims in the delivery of justice.

I am conscious, Mr Scott, that I will not be able to do justice to the debate in the time that I have available. I hope that hon. Members will forgive me.

Other individual agencies have their own initiatives to help to ensure that victims are kept informed and engaged and, above all, kept safe. The police provide bereaved families with specialist support and a single point of contact through nominating a family liaison officer—a specially trained police officer who will explain the criminal justice process to the family, and act as their first point of reference for any questions. I should point out that in 2008-09, the last year for which we have figures, victim satisfaction with the police was 83%.

The CPS has introduced the victim focus scheme for bereaved relatives. Under the scheme, the prosecutor will write to the bereaved family through the family liaison officer, and offer to meet them to explain the role of the CPS, the court process, the charges faced by the defendant and the role of the victim personal statement. If I have time, I will say more about victim personal statements in a moment.

Under the victim focus scheme, prosecutors will meet bereaved families again if a defendant is convicted, in order to answer further questions. Meeting relatives when there has been an acquittal, which can be equally traumatic, is also being piloted.

The National Offender Management Service operates the victim contact scheme. Victims are eligible when an offender is sentenced to 12 months or more in custody for a violent or sexual crime. The scheme makes sure that victims of serious crime are kept informed if there are developments or changes in the offender’s sentence, and that they have an opportunity to submit evidence to parole board hearings and request licence conditions.

Throughout the criminal justice process, there is support for victims that did not exist in the 1990s. Criminal justice agencies have embedded consideration for the welfare of victims in their ways of working and in their internal procedures. A good example of how that works across the full range of victim contact with the system is the victim personal statement, which was introduced in 2001. It is the determination of this Administration to ensure that the victim personal statement will count for more than it does now. Governments of either colour will want to continue to improve support to victims of crime.

I am conscious, Mr Scott, that I have not been able to respond as fully as I would like, but there is much more to come from this Administration regarding support for victims of crime, making sure that offenders are the ones who will be held accountable; the burden of dealing with victims of crime will fall more on them. Victims will be receiving appropriate support from the state as well.

Legal Aid

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 11th May 2011 Westminster Hall

[Dr Huppert]

My hon. Friend raises a number of issues, some of which I will come on to talk about. There is no doubt that this issue is a challenge, and there is no easy solution with which to protect all those vulnerable groups. Ideas such as that mentioned by my hon. Friend, or those suggested by the Law Society, may provide a better option.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent case and I congratulate him on that. Does he agree that rather than being largely budget driven, the review should begin with an understanding that legal justice is inextricably linked to social justice? Homelessness, for example, will be narrowly defined by these changes at a time when the Government’s policies on homelessness, housing benefit and other areas are already having a disruptive impact in that area. We need a legal aid system that is flexible enough to assist those who will find themselves on the margins of society.

[Dr Huppert]

I thank my hon. Friend for his valuable contribution to the debate. He is right: social justice lies at the heart of much of what is happening. The lack of social justice in this country, and the widening disparity between the rich and poor, already existed under the previous Government. That disparity is a sorry blight for us all and affects much of public policy. We know that one of the worst problems is the effect that social injustice and deprivation have on health. That is a much more fundamental problem to be solved than exactly what happens in an A and E hospital, and the same goes for the examples provided by my hon. Friend.

Family law particularly concerns me. I am indebted to a number of people for drawing my attention to the issue, and I would particularly like to thank Jo Miles, a Fellow in Law at Trinity college Cambridge, where I used to be a Fellow. She has made great efforts to produce evidence-based assessments of the proposals in the Green Paper, and she has also been in touch with Ministers.

The Green Paper’s reforms for family law constitute a radical reduction in the number of private family law issues for which legal aid will be available. That policy is based on two premises. To say those are outright false is perhaps going too far, but they are questionable and not well justified. The premises are first that spending on legal aid fuels litigation, and secondly that mediation is the clear alternative.

In some cases, there is no doubt that lawyers on each side—I declare an interest as a non-lawyer—ramp up the case to earn fees, and make a tense situation worse for the individuals as well as expensive for the state and of course for the side that does not have legal aid. However, it is not clear that that is common or regular. In fact, it is probably because clients can currently see a solicitor that litigation is avoided in many cases. Solicitors can play a very important role in guiding their clients towards agreed resolutions or advising them that their case is too weak to fight. Without professional guidance, badly founded and prepared litigation conducted by the client in person will surely follow and grow. That will mean an inevitable and probably substantial rise in the number of litigants in person in the family courts and the associated costs. I have seen no evidence for the Government’s assumption that there will be no significant impact on court operating costs. I strongly suspect that what is saved in legal aid may simply be spent in court costs.

The result will be that, as ever, those with money will have access to justice. Those who do not have the cash and who also lack the energy and resources to litigate by themselves will simply not have access to justice. Those who have not been able to enforce the other party’s private law responsibilities will have to fall back on the state for housing and other support—another cost to the Exchequer.

Therefore, the removal of public funding from the areas of family law that we are discussing may have the opposite effect on the finances to that which is intended. On a related note, it may also hamper successful mediation. Studies have shown that one of the main reasons why mediation has been successful has been the threat of litigation. That encourages people to adopt sensible positions and so to settle. Will that still work in the absence of litigation as a plausible threat?

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[Dr Huppert]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Yes, mediation can play a good role. There are a number of cases in which we need to move away from the legalistic approach to resolving problems and towards mediatory approaches. However, as I said in response to the point raised by the hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), mediation does not always work, and where will we get all the mediators from? We must ensure that there is a fall-back—a safety net—for people.

I cannot deal with all the issues relating to this area now. I assume that the Government have seen the briefings from the Children’s Society and the Special Educational Consortium and I hope that they will consider what they say. I am sure that other hon. Members have seen them as well.

[Andrew George]

My hon. Friend is being very patient in allowing me to intervene again. The theme underlying this is public service and its improvement. There is an important link, which must not be lost by the Government. They must ensure that those people seeking to benefit from public services see an improvement in them. We have found this in the Select Committee on Health, which has been considering clinical negligence. The removal of legal aid is proposed in that area. How can a service move on, learn lessons and improve if those who are served poorly by it do not have access to the right kind of justice?

[Dr Huppert]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I hope to talk later about the effect of the Jackson changes, how legal aid will work then and the double whammy that people may face with the two changes being rolled up together.

Lastly on the subject of special educational needs, I am sure that other hon. Members have had constituents coming to see them, as I have. My constituents take special educational needs appeals for their children very seriously. They are very concerned. A number of people have come to see me. They are terrified both about what will happen to their own children and about the future. They see education as critical to their children’s future. I could talk about other aspects, but time moves on apace.

Hon. Members may be aware that I have a passionate interest in matters to do with immigration and asylum. I chair the all-party group on refugees, as well as being a member of the Home Affairs Committee, which is chaired by the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), and it is a great pleasure to see him here today. I am of course pleased that asylum will remain within the scope of legal aid, but it is extremely concerning that other immigration cases have been excluded. Even under existing arrangements, immigration legal aid providers are struggling to remain viable; if we confine legal aid to asylum, it is doubtful whether good quality practitioners will continue to be available. There is already a surfeit of poor quality lawyers and advisers working in this field, and we would all benefit from better provision because many of them are not up to scratch.