Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s point. I am not sure that the public would object to lots of local representatives working hard for them and their interests, but I understand the complication that he alludes to.

There is a glaring absence of any reference to the Northern Ireland Assembly in the Bill. We have not even been consulted or communicated with about the process. I have tabled amendments that deal with that. Whatever the Government’s attitude to all the other very worthy amendments, I ask them to bear in mind that they are in serious deficit in the attention that they are giving to Northern Ireland.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), who makes a case for which I have a great deal of sympathy. I should like to express the great frustration of hon. Members representing Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly that we have not had an opportunity to advance the voice of, and the case for, Cornwall in debates on a Bill that will have a significant impact on Cornwall and its future. We should really have had such an opportunity before but, because of the arcane way in which we still manage our business in the House, we are left with the clock ticking away, and with very little time to make our case. As my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso) said earlier, this is a clash between two principles. The first is that of equalisation, and no one could properly argue against that. However, we must also consider the important principle of respecting tradition, history and geography.

I draw attention to my amendments 196 and 4. One deals with the principle of discretion for the Boundary Commission to apply not just to Cornwall, but to other places, too. Sometimes people are not aware of the potential consequences that flow from their own community, their own identity and their own place. It is important to have an amendment that provides the Boundary Commission with a great deal more discretion. The other amendment deals with the historic and essential boundary of Cornwall, the integrity of which must be respected and protected.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his contribution and on his amendments, to which I have appended my name. On the principle of allowing areas to opt out of the system, it is important to note the ability to opt to be under-represented. Accusations have been made that the provisions are about areas seeking to be over-represented in order to get away from the general principle of equalisation. In fact, the Liberal Democrat amendment says precisely the opposite—that the boundary may be so important in a particular area that the people in it can signal that they wish to be under-represented, as it were.

[Andrew George]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am grateful to all five of my parliamentary colleagues in Cornwall. With me, that makes six standing shoulder to shoulder together on this issue. We are not asking for a favour, only for the distinctiveness of Cornwall to be recognised. In a sense, we will be more unfavourably treated. As the statistics pan out for the electoral register for Cornwall as a whole, the best guesstimate is that, if we go for a rounding down of the constituencies, we will end up with an electorate nearly 10% higher than the quota.

[Mrs Laing]

Surely the hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that the proud duchy of Cornwall and its proud Cornishmen would feel any less Cornish or any less proud of their ancient historical traditions just because one of their constituencies happened to have in it a small part of another county. Surely Cornwall is worth more than that.

[Andrew George]

It is very nice of the hon. Lady to take an interest in Cornwall and I appreciate that. If she wants to identify the voices of Cornwall, however, she might do well to look at the three Conservative Members who represent three Cornwall constituencies. They are very clear on this issue, and they disagree with her on that particular point. The fact is that it is the thin end of the wedge and a slippery slope. We are moving in the opposite direction from the one many want to see—giving Cornwall a stronger say and enabling it to build the identity of which it is enormously proud.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Andrew George]

I shall give way in a moment, but let me make a little more progress.

It is vital for people to understand that we are talking about a Cornwall that has a long tradition of culture and a separate language, as others have mentioned. No English counties have a language of their own in the sense that Cornwall does—and it has been recognised by the European Commission and other authorities. The language is recognised and specified in the European charter.

[Angela Smith]

I remind the House that Cornwall, along with South Yorkshire, enjoyed—if that is the right word—objective 1 status because of its need for economic growth and because of the poverty from which it has suffered. Does that not suggest that Cornwall needs all the representation it can get at the moment to make sure that its economic voice can be heard in this House?

[Andrew George]

I agree. Of course we would like to have more than average representation, but we are not asking for special favours. I have said already that we are not asking for favouritism, only for the distinctiveness of Cornwall to be respected.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

Would the hon. Gentleman associate his remarks about Cornwall with other areas in the south of England, such as the Isle of Wight, which are in exactly the same circumstances? The consequences of not associating his remarks with those other areas would mean that the Boundary Commission would have to take completely arbitrary decisions, not based on any community considerations, so part of the integral community would have to be redistributed elsewhere.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George]

I am grateful for that intervention, as I entirely support what the hon. Gentleman said. Indeed, I have appended my name to amendment 183, which brings Cornwall and the Isle of Wight together. It recognises that there are already parts of the country whose geographic boundaries need to be respected. The primary principle underlying amendment 196, to which I think the hon. Gentleman alludes, is that of giving the Boundary Commission some discretion. Although amendment 183 acknowledges that there are five other parts of the country whose boundaries should be respected, we do not really know how many such areas there are. Other places elsewhere in the country might be relevant when the Boundary Commission is undertaking its work, and hon. Members, completely unaware of the situation, might find that a line has been drawn slap, bang through the middle of their constituency—and at that point, they will cry foul and ask how it happened.

When people wake up to the full reality of the way the boundaries are to be divided, they will understand that it will result in the effective pasteurisation of parliamentary constituencies. They will be homogenised and we will see the denigration of place, the denigration of identity and the promotion of placelessness and bland uniformity. The Boundary Commission should be given the discretion to recognise identity, culture, tradition, history, geography and so forth, so that places with strong identities, historic communities, historic counties and, indeed, historic boroughs do not find themselves divided up for the satisfaction of the Government’s need for so-called statistical equalisation.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman has made a powerful case about Cornwall. I believe that the amendment proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) would achieve what the hon. Gentleman is trying to achieve. We all accept the need for equalisation, but we also need to allow the Boundary Commission to do what it is paid to do—to recognise that it is not all about numbers; it is also about communities. That is how democracy works: people vote for us; they understand the areas we represent, and we understand them.

[Andrew George]

I shall support every amendment that achieves the objects set out clearly in my two amendments.

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned history and culture, and there is of course the Gaelic proverb:

“S fhearr caraid sa chuirt na crun san sporran”—

it is better to have a friend in court—and, indeed, Parliament —than money in the purse. With that in mind, I say to my Celtic cousins from Cornwall that Karl Marx in one of his madder moments said that the fate of the Celtic races was to be ruled by the Nordic races. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the treatment of Cornwall could thus be construed as Marxist? Did he ever imagine that when this coalition Government set out their aims, they would end up with Marxism in Cornwall?

[Andrew George]

Let me quote someone else. It was Matthew Arnold who said that it was the desire of a centralised state

“to render its dominions… homogenous”.

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

This issue strikes at identity, community and history—all encapsulated in amendment 183, to which I and other Liberal Democrat colleagues have appended our names. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that the House should divide on amendment 183?

[Andrew George]

I do. I wish to bring my remarks to a close, as other Members wish to contribute to the debate.

I am glad that we have had the opportunity to talk about Cornwall. I hope that the Front Benchers are listening to our debate and I hope that it will not be necessary for an unelected Chamber to sort out the mess and that elected Members will ensure that we have the right type of election and the right type of boundary for elections to this place. We are not asking for any favours for Cornwall, as I have said. We just want the Government to be fair—“fair” being a favourite word of the coalition.

I shall support every amendment that achieves the objects that I have set out. I believe that it is a self-confident Government who are prepared to listen and to change their ways when the evidence is clearly opposed to the general direction in which they are proceeding.

[Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)]

I was prompted to speak solely by the words of the hon. Member for Corby (Ms Bagshawe), who said that this was about people. It is not about people; it is about dividing areas and regions into total numbers, rather than understanding the community. Communities such as those in Devon and Cornwall, in Wales, in Northern Ireland and in Scotland also exist in my part of south London—homogenised suburban south London. People live in villages, they live in communities, and they want to be represented by people.

Some of my constituents do not vote. They cannot vote. They do not register. We all know that someone who is black, someone who lives in private rented accommodation, or someone who is aged between 17 and 24, is unlikely to register, but those people still need to be represented. When they come to my surgery, I do not ask them whether they are from Afghanistan or from Germany. They live in my area, and I represent them.

We know that harsh, strict, numerical determination never takes account of the value of what we all do as individuals in representing our areas and communities. Dare I suggest that that is part of the big society? A big society that has no representatives and does not understand the meals on wheels ladies, the people from Somalia, or the people who enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy will be unable to represent them. If we cannot represent and understand our areas, we are completely lost, and the value of our system is lost.

The role of constituency Member of Parliament is not respected in the House of Commons, although it is talked about a great deal. The essence of our democracy lies in encouraging people to vote when, having lost faith in parties and the system, they are still prepared to confide to their Member of Parliament—someone they do not know—the greatest secrets about their lives and their values, and to tell that Member of Parliament about a pub or post office in their community that is about to close.

If we break up our areas, whether they are urban like mine, suburban or rural, we will rue the day. We must hang on in order to continue to make our political system work—and our political system works because people see us representing them and understanding their communities.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Syms]

In the interests of coalition solidarity, I shall finish my speech.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Given that there will be two Front-Bench speeches in addition to other people speaking, and that two votes might be called on this issue, I fear that we might not reach the next group of amendments, although I know that people are anxious to debate those issues. I shall therefore keep my remarks brief.

There are two amendments in my name that are intended to probe the numbers issue. One would replace the figure of 600 with 500, and the purpose of that is to tease out the issue, although it has been reasonably well teased out already. We have debated the numbers and why we need to arrive at one hard and fast figure, rather than setting a number as a target or guide for the Boundary Commission to pursue.

Concern has understandably been expressed tonight about the rigidity of the drafting of the proposals, in that they offer no flexibility to take into account the whole range of factors that have been properly and articulately expressed so far. That straitjacket will result in antiseptic constituencies whose boundaries are perpetually mobile between each election, and I do not think that would be good for the House or for democracy. We want the Boundary Commission to have sufficient discretion to work towards a target while taking into account reasonable geographical, cultural and electoral issues.

We also want the Government to allow places collectively to make decisions for themselves, provided that they do not ask for any special favours. In other words, when it comes to numbers, those in Cornwall are not asking for favourable treatment, but for distinctive treatment. Having 600 Members might result in an MP representing Cornwall having to give up part of a seat in order to achieve proper respect for the boundary between Cornwall and Isles of Scilly. I specified the 500 figure in a private Member’s Bill in October 2003—part of a long campaign in which I have sought to demonstrate to the public that we can achieve efficiencies ourselves and save money.

The impact of devolution and the need to save money and to make international comparisons are issues that have been articulated well so far. I hope, however, that we will have an opportunity to move on to the second string.

[Stephen Williams]

I, too, will try to be brief, as I know some colleagues want to speak on the second string. This clause has huge ramifications, some of which I agree with—notably the equalisation of boundaries. We have just had an enormous boundary change in Bristol. I lost 30,000 electors whom I used to represent in 2005, but gained 30,000 electors from another part of the city at this election. The number of my electorate is pretty much the same as it was five years ago. It is 82,728, with my neighbour the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) representing 69,448 electors. Within the same unitary authority, one MP has 13,280 more electors to represent than another. That is surely an anomaly that has to be corrected. That is why I believe it important to have frequent boundary reviews, not 10-yearly or with even longer intervals as we have experienced before.

Business of the House

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 15th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I believe we have offered the House adequate time to deal with the Bill. It will be taken on the Floor of the House and additional time is being made available for Members to discuss it. It has also been through the other place, so there have been opportunities for the public to comment on it since its introduction there.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Will the Leader of the House require a Minister from either the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills or the Treasury to come before the House to answer questions about why the South West of England regional development agency, which is due to be abolished, has announced this week the halting of vital economic development projects in the European convergence programme in Cornwall in spite of the fact that no UK Exchequer money is required for those projects to proceed?

[Sir George Young]

I understand the importance of those projects to the south-west, and of course I will make inquiries as to why they have apparently been abandoned, particularly if, as the hon. Gentleman says, there was no call on Exchequer funds to enable them to go ahead.

Business of the House

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 3rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I am sympathetic to what the hon. Gentleman says, because in a previous capacity I authorised the extension of the Metrolink. All the questions from Labour Members are requests for more public money, at a time when they have left us with a deficit of £160 billion. It would be helpful if, at some point, we heard, alongside the suggestions to spend more money, one or two suggestions as to how we might save some of the money and get the public accounts back in balance. To return to his specific question, I should say to him that Transport questions will take place on 17 June, and that will give him the chance to press the case for the Metrolink in his constituency.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I understand that the Government intend to press ahead with using valuable parliamentary time to debate a Government motion on hunting. If that is the case, may I urge the Leader of the House to ensure that that debate is as quick as possible and takes place as soon as possible?

Business of the House

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

When my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has some specific policy proposals to put before the House, he will of course make them. He made a general speech about his approach to welfare reform. He is committed to abolishing the root causes of poverty; and I hope the whole House will join him in expressing that ambition.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

The Leader of the House will be well aware that before the general election, there was strong cross-party support for the creation of a supermarket ombudsman—yet there was no mention of that in the Queen’s Speech. We know, however, that the measure needs to be implemented soon in order to enforce the regulation that the Competition Commission brought forward on 4 February, so will the Leader of the House reassure the House that the Government will find time to introduce the necessary primary legislation in order to bring forward that important measure?

[Sir George Young]

I would be misleading my hon. Friend if I said that we could find time. That specific measure was not in the Queen’s Speech, as he will have seen; nor, from memory, was it in the coalition agreement. For that reason I cannot give the immediate commitment he has asked for. None the less, I shall raise with my right hon. Friends in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills the important point he has made, in order to clarify the coalition Government’s approach to supermarkets and competition.