Indefinite Leave to Remain

Alex Norris Excerpts

Monday 8th September 2025 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Home Department (Alex Norris)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Pritchard. I express my sincere gratitude for all the kind words from colleagues on this, my first day in the Home Office. What a welcoming party they have proffered me. I greatly enjoyed it.

I also express my gratitude to my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Ben Goldsborough). Being on the Petitions Committee in this place is a very special and difficult role because, of course, he started the debate not only in the spirit of things that he knows and feels, but by giving voice to the many hundreds of thousands of people who signed that petition and earned the right to have their issue debated in Parliament by their representatives. To the British public, that is very profound connection. He made an effort not just in preparing his speech—the words on the piece of paper—but in engaging with people to ensure that they can hear their voice in this debate. They very much will have, so I commend him for the spirit in which he did that.

Both petitions relate to the earned settlement proposals set out in the immigration White Paper, which the previous Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley (Yvette Cooper), introduced in Parliament on 12 May, so I will keep my remarks within the spirit of those two petitions. The proposals in the White Paper more generally are important changes, and we have seen, from the strength of feeling from colleagues in Westminster Hall today, just how important they are to them and their constituents.

That is why we are taking the approach we are taking. We want to listen to what people are telling us about this issue. That is why we have committed to a consultation. I can say to colleagues that the consultation is coming later this year, and that we will make the final decisions and provide details of how the scheme will work after that consultation. I apologise in advance that, for many of the issues that have been raised, I have to say that they will be subject to consultation, but that is the right way to ensure that we get to the right position.

[Mr Perkins]

The Minister is absolutely right that we are all here to respond to petitions that hundreds of thousands of people have signed. Does he think, as I do, that given the huge public interest in this matter, it is absolutely extraordinary that one person has turned up to speak from the main Opposition party, and that that person, the shadow Minister—the hon. Member for Weald of Kent (Katie Lam)—barely talked about the items raised by the petitioners? Does it not say absolutely everything about the modern Conservative party that they do not think today’s debate is even worth turning up for?

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[Alex Norris]

It was quite interesting that the Chamber was so full at the beginning of the debate; indeed, we had the very unlikely spectacle of my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield (Laurence Turner) crossing the floor. People can see who has shown an interest in this debate, and they may well draw their own conclusions.

[Luke Taylor]

I am not rising to defend the Opposition in any way, but can we just remember why we are here? We are talking about a Government who are planning to move the goalposts for people who are halfway through an application for ILR. We can point at who is at fault around the room, but let us not forget that the Government are considering moving the goalposts, so that people will now face uncertainty for further months. Let us focus on who is being challenged here. Can we remember that, Minister?

[Alex Norris]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for harking back to the 2010-to-2015 period—it truly felt like we were back in other times—but I will address his points as I go along.

My intention is to set out our stall as a Government and address the points that colleagues have raised—there have been some clear themes, and I certainly should be able to do so in the time available. As we set out in the White Paper, we strongly recognise and value the contribution that legal migration makes to our country. If people want to come to Britain to start a new life, they can do so, but they must contribute, learn our language and seek to integrate. Similarly, if employers want to bring workers from overseas, they must also invest in the skills of workers already in Britain.

As we have heard, the previous Government lost control not just of the number of people arriving but of the entire system, with serious consequences for public confidence, which play out—I am absolutely certain—in all our mailbags every day. That also impacts the working of our economy, public services, the housing market and community cohesion. We are debating this matter today because, in the space of just four years, net migration quadrupled to a record high. Overseas recruitment shot up, while training in the UK was cut. Lower-skilled migration soared, while the proportion of UK residents in work plummeted. Hundreds of thousands of people were given visas to arrive and stay in the UK, but without the requirements for them to speak or learn English, so that they could get the best out of their time here.

We hear from our constituents that migration needs to be managed so that we can support families, support communities and create cohesion. We need proper support for integration and for people to seek a better life, but there have to be clear rules about contributing to the UK. Where the pace of migration is too fast or integration is too weak, it is harder to maintain confidence, community bonds and relationships. Fundamentally, people must see the rules being clearly expressed, clearly respected and properly enforced. For the system to be credible, decisions must be fair, and misuse and exploitation must be tackled fast, as we have heard from many colleagues, and along the way we must prevent illegal migration, overstaying, exploitation and undercutting. It is our position as a Government that the immigration system must be properly controlled and managed.

[Andy McDonald]

Will the Minister give way?

[Alex Norris]

I will in a second. I appreciate the strength of feeling that colleagues have expressed today. I would caution them about defending a status quo that does not work. I ask them to engage in the spirit of how we might improve that status quo.

[Andy McDonald]

On the reasonable point about English language, the bar has been raised, as the Minister has set out. Is the Minister content that there are sufficient resources devoted to the teaching of the English language? That will be a charge that is put to us if we make that demand but do not put in the resources to match.

[Alex Norris]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I will turn to the BNO status shortly, but I think of all the work that goes on in my community around English language. Similarly, with those who have come from Ukraine in the past few years it has been transformative. As we make the proposals in the White Paper law, we will consider those important accompanying conversations.

It is a long-standing point of consensus across this place that settlement is a privilege and not a right. We know that settlement in the UK brings significant benefits, so the proposals that we have set out in the immigration White Paper reflect our view that people who benefit from settling in the UK should at first make a proportionate contribution. We have heard much about the valuable contributions that hon. Members’ constituents are making. That is why, although we are setting a baseline qualifying period for settlement at 10 years, we will allow those who make meaningful contributions to reduce that period, as my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray) referred to.

I turn to skilled work, the subject of the first petition. Skilled worker visa holders make an important contribution to our economy and public services, filling essential skills and labour market gaps, but for too long, sectors have become reliant on them to fill those gaps and have not sought to invest in our domestic workforce. The reforms that we have set out in the immigration White Paper are addressing the balance and reversing the long-term trends of overseas recruitment increasing, at the same time as reducing investment in skills and training and increasing levels of unemployment and economic inactivity in the UK, which I know we are all concerned about in our communities.

We implemented the first of the reforms in late July, lifting the threshold for skilled workers to RQF level 6, and we have commissioned the Migration Advisory Committee to advise on future changes to salary requirements and a temporary shortage list. We have established a new labour market evidence group, which met at the end of July and will continue to meet quarterly, to support our aim of tackling the underlying causes of workforce shortages and ensuring that growth-driving sectors have access to the skilled workers that they need now and into the future. I speak as someone who, until a couple of days ago, was the local growth Minister: we must support our children and schools with the same vigour, so that they get brilliant opportunities and the training that they need first.

Colleagues have talked with great passion about the Hong Kong British national overseas visa route. I want to take a moment to reflect on what the BNO route means, not just for those who have made use of it but for this country more generally. Our country has a long-standing and unique connection to the people of Hong Kong. As Hong Kong is a former British territory, many Hongkongers hold BNO status, which is a recognition of that shared history, as my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes Central (Emily Darlington) said. I commend the previous Government for launching the BNO route in January 2021—I supported it in this place—as a direct response to the imposition of the national security law in Hong Kong. Through that, the UK honoured its historic and moral commitments to the people of Hong Kong by creating a bespoke immigration route for those seeking safety, stability and a future rooted in those shared values.

Since it launched, close to 225,000 people have been granted a BNO visa, and over 160,000 have arrived in the UK. Like many of the migrants across the immigration system, Hongkongers have quickly become an integral part of both our economy and local communities, with high levels of employment, education participation and community engagement. They have made their homes in key cities and regions across the UK.

In Nottingham, Hongkongers have made an extraordinary contribution, whether it is in our public services, the private sector or the community and voluntary sector. My hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (James Naish) takes a great interest in this area, and a year ago we met organisations representative of the extraordinary contribution Hongkongers are making. I will stop short of saying whether I consider them to be from Nottingham now; due to local government reorganisation, that is a very sticky point, as it is for my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Juliet Campbell) and possibly for my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Adam Thompson), who mentioned Long Eaton. I am not going to go anywhere near that question.

The presence of those people is not just valued; they are making a huge positive and lasting contribution to our national life. As a Government, we recognise the significance of that community, not just for what they have done so far but for the role that they will play in the years ahead. I assure Members that this Government remain steadfast in supporting members of the Hong Kong community in the UK and all those who will arrive in the future. We remain fully committed to the BNO route, through which we will continue to welcome Hongkongers, but I do know how important the ability to obtain settled status is to the Hong Kong community. That is why I can assure them that we are listening to their views about the route to settlement, and we will continue to do so. In the meantime, the current rules for settlement under the BNO route will continue to apply.

[Peter Swallow]

Given how profoundly the Minister is setting out the importance of the Hong Kong community in the UK, can I tempt him to take this opportunity not only to recommit to supporting the Hongkongers with the current route, but to use this as an opportunity to fix some of the things in the BNO visa route that have made it not quite as bespoke as was originally intended through this process? Will the Minister look at that as he looks at the overall immigration system?

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[Alex Norris]

My hon. Friend seeks to tempt me off topic slightly, but he has made an excellent point, and I have heard it. However, I want to go back to the fundamental point around consultation. We have heard from colleagues about its importance to people all over the country. It is only right that those who may be affected by the proposals have a fair and equal opportunity to make their voices heard. That is precisely why we are moving forward with the consultation: to ensure that any decision made is rooted in evidence, made with fairness and based on a clear understanding of its real-world impact. I hope that Members will accept that I will not prejudge the outcome of the consultation before it has taken place.

[James Naish]

I thank the Minister for his speech. The clock is ticking, and I would like him to recognise that. It is really important that the consultation is done quickly. With that in mind, does he know at this stage whether different groups will be carved out within the consultation? Will there be separate opportunities to comment on the BNO scheme, for example, and on other routes?

[Alex Norris]

We will be opening the consultation up for everybody to make important points about how the system relates to them. The Opposition spokesperson, the hon. Member for Weald of Kent (Katie Lam), asked for clarity, and I can give it to her: everybody will get that important opportunity to say how the proposals would affect them. That takes me to some of the things that colleagues have said.

[Bobby Dean]

Clearly, if there is to be consultation, that will entail a further few months of uncertainty for many people on the scheme. Does the Minister have an ambition for when the consultation will be concluded and for when we will hear the results?

[Alex Norris]

I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a timeframe today, but I appreciate and accept his point about the time pressures that people will feel.

[Chris Hinchliff (North East Hertfordshire) (Ind)]

Given the unanimity of feeling in the Chamber today on the importance of BNO visas and the uncertainty that the consultation is creating, will the Minister put it on record that he recognises that uncertainty, and that it will be foremost in his mind as he develops policy going forward?

[Alex Norris]

I absolutely do. When we talk about a system—and this is a system—there is a danger that we forget the fact that these are individual people with lives, hopes and dreams. We always want to treat those people with the utmost dignity and make sure there is no more uncertainty than is necessary. This is my eighth year in this place, and I have watched seven years of immigration policies just fall out of the sky—many times, they were chasing headlines rather than trying to change the system. The question everybody asked was “Why on earth didn’t you consult on this?” There is good reason for engaging with people properly.

My hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum), the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) and my hon. Friends the Members for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham), Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey) and Clapham and Brixton Hill (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) all talked about the scope of the changes and who will be affected. That is the point of having a consultation: because we appreciate that people’s circumstances can be very different. That is why we want people to come forward to say how the proposals might affect them.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk talked about transition in general, as did my hon. Friends the Members for Stratford and Bow (Uma Kumaran), for Bracknell (Peter Swallow), for Chelsea and Fulham (Ben Coleman), for Ashford (Sojan Joseph) and for Poole (Neil Duncan-Jordan). Again, we appreciate the strength of feeling that has been expressed, and feedback on that point is very helpful. We have also had some feedback since the publication of the White Paper, which is helping us to frame the consultation before we finalise any policy following it.

I have clearly heard the strength of feeling regarding Hongkongers, and our profound connection with them, from my hon. Friends the Members for Hendon (David Pinto-Duschinsky), for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Danny Beales), for Rushcliffe, for Milton Keynes North (Chris Curtis), for Birmingham Northfield, for Warrington South (Sarah Hall), for Bolton South and Walkden (Yasmin Qureshi), for Bolton West (Phil Brickell), for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) and for Erewash, as well as from the hon. Members for South Cambridgeshire (Pippa Heylings) and for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean). I hope they see that I share that feeling, as well as their pride in that connection—a point that was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds South West and Morley (Mark Sewards).

Before I finish, I want to refer to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) and the racism that his constituents have endured in their NHS service. That is totally unacceptable, and I would like to add my solidarity to his, which is coming from the TUC. I also want to address a couple of final questions before I hand back to my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk with enough time for him to sum up. He talked about diplomatic consequences; I want to assure him that we have engaged with the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office on the issue and that we recognise the diplomatic interests in the BNO route and will continue to consider those impacts carefully.

My hon. Friends the Members for South Norfolk and for Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr (Steve Witherden) mentioned impact assessments. It is right that colleagues see impact assessments after we have finalised proposals. However, the point of the consultation is that we do not yet know that final stage, which is why we are having those conversations, and impact assessments will of course be carried out at the right moment.

Finally, my hon. Friends the Members for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and for Edinburgh South West (Dr Arthur) raised the issue of study. International students are crucial to the UK, the city of Nottingham, our universities and our economy. They allow us to have a world-class connection to our higher education sector, and they are an important pillar of growth. It is essential that opportunities to study in the UK are given to individuals who are genuinely here to do just that. The universities that sponsor those individuals to study here must treat that responsibility with the seriousness that it deserves. That is crucial to public confidence.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk and other colleagues on what has been a brilliant debate. There has been a lot of interest, for good reason, and there is a lot more work to do, for good reason. I hope that those who are watching have seen that we want to get this right. We will be moving forward with a consultation, and I look forward to engaging along the way in that process.