Draft Armed Forces Act 2006 (Continuation) Order 2024

Al Carns Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2024 General Committees

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Armed Forces Act 2006 (Continuation) Order 2024.

I am pleased to see you in the Chair, Dame Siobhain. The purpose of the draft order is to extend for a further year the legislation governing the armed forces. That reflects a constitutional requirement under the Bill of Rights 1688 that a standing Army, and now by extension the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, cannot be maintained without the consent of Parliament.

In our increasingly dangerous and disordered world, I need not remind hon. Members of the importance of our consent today. From the frontline in Ukraine, where there are more than 1,000 casualties a day, to the hundreds of attacks on the UK in cyberspace, our allies, our democracy and our international rules-based system are under daily attack, threatening our physical and economic security and our hard-won freedoms, and undermining national cohesion. In the face of that, the dedicated men and women of our armed forces selflessly and courageously step forward day and night, making great personal sacrifice, to deliver on the Government’s first and most important duty: to keep this nation safe and to protect our citizens.

But it is not just about safety; it is about security and stability. We cannot have prosperity without a safe, secure and stable nation. We cannot be safe at home and strong abroad without our armed forces. They are a critical security, diplomatic and humanitarian national asset. Whether they are exercising with NATO allies, training Ukrainians and getting military aid into their hands, delivering lifesaving food and aid to families in Gaza, or supporting flood victims in Poland, we must collectively renew our consent for that important work every five years by an Act of Parliament.

The draft order will keep the Armed Forces Act 2006 in force for a further year, until December 2025. That will ensure that our armed forces can continue to serve, and it will maintain the provisions that underpin the system of command, justice and discipline. It is a privilege to seek cross-party support from the Committee for the order, and in doing so I pay tribute to those who have served, those who are serving and the wider armed forces community. By defending our country, they give the ultimate in public service.

--- Later in debate ---

[Al Carns]

I am grateful for the cross-party collaboration on the draft order and for the support that the Committee has given it.

Let me provide a bit more detail on some of the points raised, first by the hon. Member for East Wiltshire. As a former serving member of the military, I understand the difficulties in balancing the budget. Over the last 24 years, including the 14 years in which his party were in government, I have been through different exercises that have been cut, chopped and changed because of those difficulties. That is not to say, in any way, shape or form, that we are going to cut training, but decisions are always made within the system to ensure that resources go in the right place at the right time for the required effect.

On the route towards 2.5%, as the Prime Minister has said, we absolutely have committed to that, but we must do it on a balanced trajectory, at the right time—not too early or, indeed, too late. It is about getting the timing exactly right, but there is no doubt that the commitment sits with this Government to move towards 2.5%.

To cover some of the points raised by the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell, there are some excellent programmes that have been running for some time now, which we will absolutely continue to move forward, on mental health, physical health and housing. We are also looking at different methods to redesign some of our veterans support, and we will publish a veterans strategy next year, which will outline some of those projects.

Finally, let me say in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster that support on housing, as mentioned by the Prime Minister in his conference speech, will absolutely move forward. We are looking at ways of making sure that every veteran across the country has access to housing, and that those who serve get the deal that they deserve.

I thank hon. Members for upholding the constitutional position of our armed forces.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Al Carns Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris Ward (Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven) (Lab)]

5. What progress he has made on implementing the recommendations of the LGBT veterans independent review.

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

If you will allow me to say so, Mr Speaker, it is with great pride that I stand behind this Dispatch Box for the first time, after 24 years of service, to represent veterans, serving personnel and their families and dependants. Be under no illusion: it is now my duty to serve them here in Government and to fight for the deal that they deserve.

I was serving when the ban was lifted in 2000 by a Labour Government. The treatment of LGBT veterans was completely and utterly unacceptable. The treatment of LGBT veterans has been dealt with by the Etherton review, which we will see out at the end of the year. We have met 32 of the 49 recommendations and we will meet those on the financial redress scheme by the end of this year, with a launch in January next year.

[Chris Ward]

LGBT veterans have suffered appalling injustice and ingratitude, including many in my Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven constituency. I welcome the update from the Minister, but he will know that it is recommendation 28 on financial redress and compensation that is causing concern among veterans. Because the report caps compensation at £50 million, the average payment per veteran might be as low as £12,500. The then Prime Minister, now the Leader of the Opposition, rightly told the House that the ban was

“an appalling failure of the British state”.—[Official Report, 19 July 2023; Vol. 736, c. 897.]

Will the Minister meet me and Fighting With Pride to discuss how we can take this forward to get fair and swift compensation?

[Al Carns]

I know that a significant number of my hon. Friend’s constituents are affected by this completely unacceptable and highly regrettable policy. I met Fighting With Pride and Lord Etherton just last week. I will meet them again and I will meet my hon. Friend to talk through the detail. I can confirm that Defence is working with experts across Government to establish an appropriate financial redress scheme. That scheme will launch this year and I will update the House in due course.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) (Lab)]

6. What steps he is taking to help secure the future of the UK’s defences.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jess Asato (Lowestoft) (Lab)]

7. What steps he is taking to support veterans.

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

This is a Government of service that will always stand up for those who serve our country. That is why the Prime Minister focused on the debt we owe our veterans in his first conference speech as Prime Minister. As a veteran myself, I stand steadfast in my commitment to deliver improved services for veterans, working closely across Government and with the devolved Governments.

[Jess Asato]

The Lord Kitchener Memorial Holiday Centre is an extraordinary charity in my constituency, set up more than 100 years ago after the great war to provide convalescence for returning soldiers. Today it provides much-needed short stays for veterans and their families across the country, as well as a drop-in and information centre for veterans locally, but sadly its funding situation is precarious. Does the Minister agree that investing in our locally valued veterans’ charities is essential if we are to provide the best support for our brave service personnel?

[Al Carns]

I thank my hon. Friend for an important statement and question, and I thank the Lord Kitchener Memorial Holiday Centre for all the work it has done in supporting veterans for over a century now—it is truly deserving of applause. I would be happy to visit the centre with her to see the brilliant work that it does. The Government are looking at the best way to deliver collaboratively across the charitable sector, which includes more than 1,000 charities, to deliver the best support for veterans and deliver the deal they deserve.

[Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)]

During his Labour conference speech, the Prime Minister made one of his key announcements:

“We will repay those who served us and house all veterans in housing need. Homes will be there for heroes.”

[Ben Obese-Jecty]

Wait for it. Last week, the Government confirmed that that would actually be done by exempting veterans from local connection and residency tests, rather than by making dedicated housing available. Given that it was a key conference pledge, what guarantees are the Government able to offer veterans that homes really will be there for them?

[Al Carns]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, Op Fortitude is running and we have had more than 2,000 referrals so far, with 700 veterans put into housing. We will continue to extend the programme to ensure that every veteran has a home in due course.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con)]

This weekend marked 40 years since one of the most appalling and audacious terrorist attacks on British soil, the attack on the Conservative party conference in Brighton in 1984. Five people died in the bombing. If you will forgive me, Mr Speaker, they were the Member of Parliament for Enfield, Southgate, Anthony Berry; Lady Jeanne Shattock; Muriel Maclean of the Scottish Conservatives; Eric Taylor; and Roberta Wakeham. All are remembered. Thirty-one people were also injured and some never recovered.

The peace that we enjoy today in Northern Ireland and across these islands was hard-won over many decades, but hard-won also was the protection afforded to our veterans, who served our country through the troubles and have since been plagued by ambulance-chasing lawyers with vexatious claims. That protection was achieved through the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023, but there is concern within the veteran community that the new Government’s proposed repealing and replacement of that Act will put those men and women, many of whom are now well into retirement, at risk. Can the hon. and gallant Gentleman assure me, and them, that they will be protected and that those who served our country with distinction and valour over so many years will never be at the mercy of those seeking to distort their service or to damage their lives and reputations?

[Al Carns]

I thank the hon. and gallant Gentleman for his comments. Our Government recognise the important service of veterans and serving personnel and the sacrifices they made to keep us all safe in Northern Ireland during the troubles. I did not serve during the troubles, but I did serve in Northern Ireland and I understand them. He has my absolute commitment that any individual who needs to go through legal proceedings will get the correct welfare and legal support.

[David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with his international counterparts on support for Ukraine.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris McDonald]

Can my right hon. Friend outline what steps the Government are taking to ensure that every veteran who has bravely served this country has access to safe and secure housing, so that they never face the injustice of homelessness?

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

As I mentioned before, Op FORTITUDE is up and running. It is doing exceptionally well, with over 2,000 referrals and 700 veterans finding housing, and we will work to continue that programme for the foreseeable future.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)]

T2. Earlier this month, a Royal Navy investigation found intolerable misogyny in the submarine service, following complaints of bullying and sexual harassment. Forward Assist, a charity based in my constituency that supports survivors, has done research and a number of reports into the prevalence and impact of military sexual trauma. Will the Secretary of State meet me and that charity to discuss its findings, and how we can support serving personnel and veterans?

[Al Carns]

I would love to visit that charity with my hon. Friend in due course. Any reports of misogyny or wrongdoing in any way are utterly unacceptable. That is why since entering government we have started a programme of raising our standards with a plan to enact cultural change across defence, with the aim of making defence the best place to work across Government.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)]

T3. Many members of the armed forces in my constituency are living in sub-par MOD housing that is cold, damp and mould-ridden. How is the Minister ensuring that all MOD properties are fit to live in?

[Al Carns]

I have been utterly shocked by the state of parts of the housing estate that we have inherited. Over the last 14 years, the Government of the time failed to decisively close with this issue, instead kicking the can down the road or continually topping up the leaking bucket. We have examples of families living in accommodation with no running water, with mould and with pest infestations; there were 53,000 complaints between 2018 and 2023. Having lived in some of that accommodation, I can tell the House that it is unacceptable. Our armed forces protect the freedoms we enjoy, and this Government will take action—including a medium to long-term review—to get after the housing and create a new armed forces commissioner to improve service life.

[Luke Murphy (Basingstoke) (Lab)]

T10. I am immensely proud of the armed forces, both those serving and veterans, who live in my constituency, but I do worry for the future given the recruitment crisis that we inherited from the previous Government. What steps are this Government taking to tackle the recruitment crisis, in particular to attract diverse skills such as in cyber?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

T5. I commend the new Veterans Minister for the contact he has already had with the chairman of the War Widows Association, who is with us today in the Special Gallery. May I request a meeting with him, her and me to try to resolve the situation for the last 49 war widows who have so far been excluded from the payment scheme that we managed to work out for those who unfairly lost their pensions on remarriage?

[Al Carns]

I thank the right hon. Member for bringing that up. Given the amount of his experience, I would love to sit down with him and the chair of the War Widows Association to talk this through in more detail.

[David Taylor (Hemel Hempstead) (Lab)]

In May, I was privileged to join a group called Help99 in driving some pick-up trucks and other military vehicles to Kyiv

for the use of Ukrainian soldiers on the frontline. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can make it easier for such groups to deliver vehicles, which are so desperately needed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Al Carns]

In August, medical standards including on ACL injuries were changed. Decisions will be made on a case-by-case basis, but I would like to discuss it in more detail in person in due course.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T7. Does the Secretary of State share my incredulity that he has not been told the cost of leasing the facilities in the Chagos?

Royal Navy: Behaviours

Al Carns Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Written Statements

[The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)]

This Government are committed to improving service life for our dedicated service personnel. This includes addressing any experience in our armed forces which falls short of the standards we expect. The Secretary of State for Defence made clear in his first address to the Ministry of Defence that we will have a culture that values all, and we will have zero tolerance for any abuse, in the military or the civil service.

That is why today, I am updating the House on the findings of an investigation into misconduct in the submarine service. This investigation was commissioned by the Royal Navy in October 2022 as a result of allegations of misconduct made by a former female submariner. The investigation has now concluded and has found evidence to prove that misogyny, bullying and unacceptable behaviour did occur amongst a range of ranks and rates during the period 2014-2020.

This is appalling and should have never happened. I sincerely apologise for the treatment that the victim experienced during her time as a submariner, and I commend to the House her bravery in coming forward. Those that have chosen to serve deserve better. The First Sea Lord has also offered his personal and unreserved apologies to the victim for her treatment.

Action is under way to address the findings of the investigation. First and foremost, I can confirm that the Royal Navy has conducted misconduct proceedings, and action has been taken against several individuals up to and including discharge from the service.

The investigation also made 37 recommendations to address practical and cultural shortcomings which must change. The First Sea Lord has accepted these in full and implementation is under way. These changes include proactive welfare checks for submarine crews pre and post deployment, to understand the experiences of the crew; changes to training and the submarine command course; and increased outreach from the Royal Navy Police so that personnel are aware of the routes available to them should they wish to raise a complaint.

Further detail on the investigation, including its findings, recommendations and how they have been implemented has been published on the Ministry of Defence website. The executive summary and redacted report will be placed in the Library of the House. However, changes made so far are not limited to the submarine service. In parallel to the investigation itself, the First Sea Lord instigated a wider review of the Royal Navy’s working culture. As a result of this, the Royal Navy has appointed a commadore as its head of culture and a team to support driving cultural, behavioural and leadership improvements across the entirety of the Royal Navy.

Misconduct such as that identified in this investigation is unacceptable and has no place anywhere in Defence. While progress is being made, there is more to be done. I will hold the First Sea Lord, the Royal Navy and the submarine service to account for delivering the change this investigation has identified. I have requested a formal review of progress in six months.

More widely, the MOD has established a programme for raising our standards that builds on existing work to instil a positive working culture and uphold the standards of behaviour that we expect. The programme focuses on communications and training, underpinned by work to test the action being taken and make sure that unacceptable behaviours are being eliminated from Defence.

Work is under way by the new ministerial team to look at what action has been taken to raise standards and tackle unacceptable behaviour so far across the Ministry of Defence and the whole of the military; assess what impact this action has had; identify where we are still falling short; and ensure where we learn lessons and establish good practice this is shared across the whole of Defence.

Furthermore, I will personally oversee the programme of change through our external challenge panel: a group of experienced subject matter experts in organisational change that have been brought together to hold this Department to account for action on these issues, and ensure we have strong ambition and independent testing of our programme.

It is only by delivering on this commitment that we will enable Defence to better reflect the nation it serves and protects, and draw from the best of British talent, to deliver operational outcomes in an increasingly uncertain world.

Poor practices and behaviours in the past that may have been normalised in some quarters are unacceptable, and they have no place today. We will learn from this, and I will provide further updates to the House on action taken across Defence in due course.

The leadership of the submarine service has my, and the First Sea Lord’s, full support to deliver the changes needed.

The attachments can be viewed online at: http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2024-10-07/HCWS103/.

[HCWS103]