Adult Prison Estate: Support for Young People

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Monday 3rd November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Farmer]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to mitigate the reduced support for young people moving from the Youth Custody Service into the adult prison estate.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

Transition from the youth to the adult estate is a critical time and needs to be managed with care and thought for the safety of the young person. The transitions policy framework is a guide for all practitioners to ensure that the transition is focused on the needs of the individual, so that when they arrive in the adult prison estate it leads to a safe and positive outcome.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. I am encouraged by his support for rehabilitation and for reducing reoffending by young offenders. The state helps to look after looked-after children until they are 25, recognising that the effects of every young adult’s immaturity are amplified by adversity, family trauma and intense relational insecurity. Young adults in custody often face very similar challenges. Without excusing crime, how could boys’ entry into the adult estate be more trauma-informed to mirror how girls are treated? Also, could genuinely supportive relationships—such as peer-to-peer buddy schemes, including from the very good staff who were at the YCS—be maintained until they fully transition, to help young adults navigate the relational jungle that is the adult estate?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble Lord does amazing work in this area and I appreciate his focus on it. The trauma-informed approach is well established for the transition of women within the justice system. Stephanie Covington and others have been great on training staff. We now need to train more in the youth estate for boys and the male estate for men. That is where the Enable programme comes in. It is rolling out now; it is in five prisons at the moment and it will be the basis of training a trauma-informed approach.

It is also important to understand the complexities of young people. As someone who was brought up in a foster family with lots of young people with challenges, I know that how they transition to adulthood and the adult estate is really important. Synaptic pruning, with the connections between brain cells and how they change through adolescence, is important, as is attachment theory. Peer mentoring when someone moves from the youth estate to the adult estate, with officers following them through there and someone who meets them at the gate and makes sure they are settled in well, is equally important.

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand that the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award scheme plays a significant role in the transition the Minister has spoken about. Can he tell us a bit more about the role that that very well-respected awards scheme plays?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

As someone who did a little bit of the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award scheme many years ago, and not very well, I would say that it is great to see it working well in prisons. It has been going for some time in the youth estate, but it never followed through into the adult estate. However, since 2020 it has expanded to the estate for those under 25 and is now operating in 38 adult establishments. It improves young people’s confidence and teamwork and their relationships with fellow prisoners and the adults who take them on. The volunteers who work on the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award are fantastic. If noble Lords go to Wetherby, they may well see young offenders working at local food banks, litter picking and at the Boston Spa church, all under the Duke of Edinburgh scheme.

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)]

My Lords, since the 2022 policy framework, decisions on the actual age for transition from the youth estate to adult prisons appear to have been made largely on grounds of prison capacity rather than individual need. Should not transition planning be based largely on the need for continuity of courses and vocational training? Can the noble Lord say what plans there may be to ensure flexibility in the age of transition and the timing of transfers, to meet young people’s individual needs for training and programmes?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble Lord raises a very important question, because the transition from the youth estate to the adult estate can be a point of great concern, both for those who work within the secure establishment and for young people themselves. We have a complex case panel, which works on the best solution for that individual, including how we manage the risks and the opportunities for them. Sometimes, children stay beyond 18 for a few months, if they need to finish off various courses or if probation officers feel it is the right thing for them to do. But another important thing is that we have enough capacity in the adult estate to ensure that, when it is appropriate that they move into the adult estate, we have a suitable prison for them to go to.

[Lord Keen of Elie (Con)]

My Lords, the recent briefing from the Alliance for Youth Justice highlights that there is at present no clear rationale or effective policy for young adults moving into the adult estate, and that transitions are not being handled on a case-by-case basis. Can the Minister explain what immediate plans the Government have to improve the transition policy framework and to introduce a more structured, needs-based transition process, so that over-18s leaving youth custody receive the support they require in the adult estate?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble and learned Lord is right to raise the transition point, because complex case panels work on where the best place for that individual to go is, but, when they arrive in the adult estate, it is also about who looks after them to ensure that the transition is successful. We have some young adults in prison who have been there from the age of 14; they have very long sentences, and to move to an adult prison can be traumatic and could lead to a big deterioration in their behaviour. That is where it comes down to training and making sure, through the Enable programme, that we pilot and push through how we teach and train staff to manage that transition carefully, because there is more work to be done. We also need to learn from all the academic research that is coming through, while working with organisations such as Switchback and the Transition to Adulthood alliance, which do fantastic work, because we need to keep learning from their expertise.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I am delighted that this issue is being taken so seriously and that the developments are so positive, but can the noble Lord comment on whether there is a small proportion of people who should go from youth services to special hospitals, because of mental health issues, rather than straight to an adult prison?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Let me take the example of the female prison population. Young adult women aged 18 to 25 make up 12% of the female prison population, but they account for just under 50% of all instances of self-harm. For me, that is a very distressing figure. What was clear from going round women’s prisons, as I have done recently, is that I saw a lot of young women there who I believe are very ill, and it is about how we support them. It may be that prison is the right place for them, but it may be that we need to support them in a secure hospital environment that will help them manage their issues as well.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for all his answers so far. Is he aware—I am embarrassed that I was not—that people can still be remanded in custody, even pending trial for a non-custodial offence, for their own protection? This has a disproportionate effect on children and women. Will the Government consider abolishing that provision?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for the question. I am not aware of the detailed numbers of young people in that position, but I do know that the number of children in prison has fallen considerably over the last few years. There are 461 children in prison today: just a few years ago, we had over 1,000. But we need to make sure that we always have a place in prison for those people who need to be there and that, where we can divert young people away from prison, we do so.

[The Lord Bishop of Manchester]

My Lords, the age when young people transfer from the youth system to the adult system is precisely the age when they are most trying to identify themselves and understand their faith and spirituality. Prison chaplains do an excellent job across the youth estate. Could the Minister give us some hints as to how they might be better supported and resourced to prepare young people at that time of transition, both in their lives and in the prison estate?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am sure that the right reverend Prelate will be pleased to know that only last week I met up with the head chaplain of the Prison Service to talk about a very similar topic. The role of prison chaplains in a prison or custodial environment is very widely spread. The time they have to talk to people, often one on one and in a very confidential and safe place, is important. I have met and employed a number of people from prison who had their lives turned around by a chaplain. It is important that we get more opportunities for chaplains and other members of religious groups to speak to prisoners when they are there.

[Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the Minister’s great commitment to this subject and appreciate his comments on the fact that young people do not mature at the same age—it has nothing to do with their calendar age—and on the needs, vulnerability and learning problems of these children as they face the cliff edge of going from youth custody into adult prison. Can the Minister comment on the introduction of behaviour management systems? Much has been made of this, but intense violence is one of the aspects that intimidates young offenders and young prisoners and sets them right back.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Some 68% of children in custody are there for serious violent offences and 11% are sentenced to life. So we are dealing with what experts tell me is an increasingly complex and violent group of young people. That is why, unfortunately, we have had to add PAVA spray as one of the options to protect staff from prisoners and prevent serious injury and even loss of life in our prisons. However, I can assure your Lordships’ House that the staff who work in our youth estate are passionate about helping children turn their lives around.

Prisoner Release Checks

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Wednesday 29th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)]

My Lords, I echo the thanks of the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, to the authorities that finally apprehended and deported Mr Kebatu, and, indeed, the sympathy that he expressed to the young victim of Mr Kebatu’s offending.

The Secretary of State’s Statement was made on Monday 27 October, following Mr Kebatu’s mistaken release into the community on Friday 24 October. I fully understand the Secretary of State’s inability on Monday to give full details of what happened, but, with two further days, I ask how much more the Minister can say about how this mistaken release actually happened.

As we have heard, the Secretary of State apparently said that he was livid and he described the release as a blunder—and we accept entirely that he was right in both those things—but saying so solves nothing. At least there is now to be an inquiry into how Mr Kebatu came to be released and what the failures were, to be chaired by Dame Lynne Owens, former Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and Director-General of the National Crime Agency. But setting up an inquiry does not solve the problem, nor does it answer the central questions that Parliament and the public are entitled to have fully answered now. First, what is the system and what are the safeguards currently in place for ensuring that only prisoners intended for release are in fact released? Secondly, what is the system and what are the safeguards for ensuring that prisoners destined for deportation are in fact deported and not released into the community?

As the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, said, the issue of mistaken releases is serious—and it is as serious as it is absurd. The number of mistaken releases has risen sharply: between April 2024—I remind the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, that that was before the general election—and March 2025, it rose to 262 in a year, up from 115 the previous year, an increase of well over double. But this is a problem that simply should not exist at all. We are now told that a new checklist has been introduced for prison staff to follow before a prisoner is released. How can there not have been a satisfactory checklist system in place before this occurred?

Certainly, morale and the ability of the Prison Service to cope have fallen to an abysmal level, but that is not entirely the fault of this Government—it has happened over years under the previous Conservative Government. But this case and these figures demonstrate the scale of the challenges that the service and the Government face if we are even to approach getting these things right, and the resources and willpower required to repair our collapsed penal system, which are far greater than ever we envisaged.

There is the further issue of the £500. We now hear from the BBC that Mr Kebatu was paid £500 apparently for not making trouble and not disrupting his deportation to Ethiopia after he had threatened to do so. We are told that the payment was made by the removal team as an alternative to a slower and more expensive process that would have meant the cancellation of his flight and the arrangement of a new one. That is according to a spokesperson for the Prime Minister.

Apparently, a parallel was drawn by No. 10 with the so-called facilitated return scheme, whereby a foreign national who agrees to leave the UK voluntarily can be paid £1,500 so to do. That is an entirely false parallel that was drawn. Apparently, Mr Kebatu had attempted to apply for the facilitated return scheme but was not permitted to do so. No doubt that was because he was liable to be immediately deported anyway, quite apart from the embarrassment that all this caused. I ask the Minister to confirm that and to answer questions about that payment.

How did that payment to Mr Kebatu come to be made, since it was not under the facilitated return scheme? Is there some kind of what can only be described as a slush fund that can be used to buy people’s compliance with their deportation? If so, on whose authority is it expended? One can understand that it might cost a great deal more than £500 if a flight has to be cancelled and a potential deportee cannot therefore be deported, but surely Downing Street can see that paying off one deportee for not making trouble will lead to a whole number of others taking the same course.

Who makes the decisions in any particular case? What controls are there over such payments? How is this not rewarding troublemaking? Who decides in any given case the amount that is to be paid out, if not £1,500? Is it discretionary? Can it be more? Must it be less? These are serious questions about what I am afraid has the smell of being an arbitrary, uncontrolled, unprofessional and unacceptable system. Will the Minister please explain?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Wolfson and Lord Marks, for their contributions on these incredibly important issues. I will of course respond to as many of the points raised as possible.

I begin by thanking the Metropolitan, Essex and British Transport Police for their swift response in apprehending Mr Kebatu. My particular thanks go to Essex Police for the support they have offered to the victims, all of whom were contacted following the release in error. I can tell noble Lords that Mr Kebatu has now been deported and arrived back in Ethiopia this morning; nevertheless, his victims are, rightly, outraged and the Government regret the hurt and anguish this incident will have caused them. They deserve better, the public deserve better, and, as the Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Secretary said in the other place on Monday, Ministers expect better from a public service which plays a huge role in the first duty of any Government, to keep the public safe.

We are clear that any release in error is one too many. Immediate changes have been made to the release process so that there is more senior accountability, including a new checklist for duty governors to complete the night before releases happen. Noble Lords who have concerns about the arrangements currently in place should be in no doubt that these are the strongest release checks the Prison Service has ever had. This incident will throw releases in error into stark relief, but the reality is that they have been rising year on year since 2021. In 2023, there were around nine per month, but by the period January to June 2024, that had increased to 17 per month. This is clearly too high and we have work to do.

While I appreciate that noble Lords will be concerned that more focus is needed to address the issues, we have now commenced an independent investigation. It will be led by Dame Lynne Owens, with her years of experience as a former deputy commissioner of the Met and director-general of the National Crime Agency. Dame Lynne will establish the facts in this case, and the Government have been clear that there must be accountability for what happened. What I will say is that prison staff work incredibly hard, often in difficult circumstances, so we will of course take account of the training and technology available to support the release process when the incident took place. What is important now is that due process is allowed to happen. In addition, Dame Lynne will make recommendations to support the Prison Service to avoid such errors in the future. I look forward to receiving her report so that the Government can agree changes as soon as possible with HMPPS’s senior leadership.

When it comes to foreign national offenders, this Government stand on our record. In the year to July, we sent 5,179 FNOs back to their countries of origin, which represents a 14% increase on the previous 12-month period. This is no small feat. In July, I visited HMP Huntercombe to see for myself the operational challenges around foreign national offenders, the deportation delays and the ongoing issue of space inside prisons. As I have set out to noble Lords many times, our prisons continue to operate close to their maximum capacity. This puts us at risk of a total collapse of the criminal justice system, in which victims and the public would pay the price. With the prison system in its current state, it is, sadly, no surprise that releases in error such as that of Mr Kebatu can happen.

This Government have been clear about the changes needed to create a better, more sustainable prison system. The Sentencing Bill that is currently making its way through the other place and will soon come to your Lordships’ House will ensure that we never run out of prison places again. It will incentivise offenders to behave in prison to avoid longer spells in custody and put a greater emphasis on robust community sentencing which addresses the causes of crime. The Bill will deliver punishment that works to cut crime and keep the public safe. To those noble Lords who are concerned that Mr Kebatu would never have gone to prison under the Bill and would therefore have remained in the community, I gently point out that they may wish to examine Clause 42 of the legislation, which will extend the automatic deportation rules to include any FNO who gets a suspended sentence of at least 12 months.

On a few points that were raised by both noble Lords, the £500 that was paid was an operational decision to get Kebatu on a plane without any delays. It was far cheaper than booking more flights, and far cheaper than him being in a cell for another year, which would cost £54,000. I also think that it was a sensible decision by civil servants: to use a golfing analogy, if someone wants to give you a putt, you take it. He needed to get on a plane and get back to Ethiopia. As for Mr Kebatu returning to the prison five times, this will be part of Dame Lynne Owens’ investigation into what exactly happened.

The reference by the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, to Pentonville is quite right. Immediately after the notification, I visited the prison and there were 10 releases that were incorrect: all of them had remained in prison for too long. There are problems at that prison, which we are addressing, and I am working on an action plan with colleagues, but it is clear that this is symptomatic of a prison system that is under a huge amount of pressure. I reiterate that prison education budgets are actually up by 3%, but the amount of education we can deliver has gone down because of the increased cost of delivering that service. As the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, will know, I cannot pre-empt the annual publication of these statistics. We are a lot more transparent than the previous Government, especially on the early release scheme, where 10,000 offenders were released in a cloak and dagger way. With the SDS40 scheme that we took on, we very much told everybody what was going on.

I reiterate to the noble Lord, Lord Marks, that the extra checks that I insisted on will make sure that release processes are far more robust. Far from being soft on crime, this Government are taking the robust decisions needed to protect the justice system. Prisons are and have been in crisis for far too long, but we are putting in the work to build stability. Victims are and always will be our paramount concern when it comes to an issue such as this, and this Government stand on our record of deporting increasing numbers of foreign national offenders, as the public expect.

Again, I thank the two noble Lords for their contributions today and I will continue to engage with them and colleagues more broadly on this important issue as the Government address releases in error so that we can continue to uphold our first duty, to keep the public safe from harm.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I note that the Statement directly addresses strengthening prison release checks, but I put to the Minister that it is important to look at this in the broader context of the Home Office. I note that on Radio 4 this morning there was a list of schemes and programmes within the Home Office that are going wrong. The police national computer system replacement is six years late; the biometrics project is seven years late; and the emergency services communication system is a decade late and £3 billion over budget. Now, since the Conservative Front Bench did not, I will fully acknowledge that this is a situation that the current Government inherited; they cannot be held responsible for what arrived on their desk, but I read in this Statement about the extra checks, the new systems and governors that have been put into prisons to try to stop these releases going wrong.

We know that the reasons there have been problems with so many computer systems within the Home Office is that the rules have kept being changed and the problems with the quality of the data going into these systems have not been properly acknowledged. Can the Minister assure me that the Government are taking full account of the weakness of the Home Office and its systems overall, and the level of chaos that they inherited? Is it not time to think about a big restructure—a potential splitting up of a Home Office that is very clearly not working?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Decisions such as on the noble Baroness’s last point are far above my pay grade, but I shall just mention two points. First, on release in error, any release in error is far too many and there is clearly a problem here that needs to be addressed. My style is very much, “Let’s deal with it and let’s work out what the problems are”, and I think that the investigation that Dame Lynne Owens will do will be very helpful as part of that process.

On the question of data, and making sure that we are effective and accurate in the work that we do, I spend a lot of time focusing on how we can embrace technology to ensure that, specifically, the Prison and Probation Service—which I know is within Justice, not the Home Office—has the ability to get things done more accurately and enables front-line staff to focus on what they do best, which is to rehabilitate people, not to fill out forms. Justice Transcribe—which uses AI to dictate what happened in a meeting with an offender, rather than the probation officer having to spend an hour writing it down afterwards—may sound like a very straightforward addition but is making a big difference already, saving hours of probation officers’ time. As someone who has come here from the commercial world, I am convinced that the more we embrace technology to enable our front-line staff to deliver excellent public services, the better.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for his explanation about the £500, which has been all over the media and was referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Marks. It makes eminent sense that this was an operational decision; it has saved vast amounts of money and enabled this vile person to be put on a plane and got out of our country as soon as possible. I very much hope that my noble friend’s answer will be picked up in the media to counter some of the contrary stories that have been out there today.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for her comment. We need to make sure that we support our operational civil servants on the front line—whom we trust with a huge amount of responsibility—when they make a sensible and commercial decision such as this one.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his response to this Statement. He has already said more than once from the Dispatch Box that any release in error is one too many. Can he say whether we have a timeframe for Dame Lynne Owens’s report so that we can think about when we might return to this? I hope that we will be able to see a significant decrease. The notion of the checklist, used extensively in medicine and increasingly in other places, is a thoroughly good idea, and I am sure that it will make a huge difference.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Dame Lynne Owens is going to start immediately. We hope to get the report back within eight weeks. She will be covering the facts of the case and will establish what went on. She will consider all our operational policies and whether they are fit for purpose, and make recommendations on how we can reduce the number of releases in error. Peers will have the opportunity to scrutinise the recommendations that she puts forward.

[Lord Massey of Hampstead (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s assurance that changes will be made to the release process to ensure accountability at the highest level in the prison—which is, of course, the governor. As we observe the rising error rate, which seems to be accelerating, and the rather ad hoc decision to give the deportee £500 to take his plane, does it give the Minister pause to wonder about the quality of training, and possibly management, of front-line staff in the prison system today?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

It is a very good question about the training of our front-line staff—and our leadership, not just in prisons but in probation. I was fortunate that, before I was offered this job, I did a review for the previous Government into prison officer training. It was clear that there was lots of good training going on, but we really needed to up our game. Now I am in this job—and I will be at the allocations meeting coming up soon—this is something I want to get done. It is about not just improving the length of prison officers’ training when they join the service—that needs to be longer—but what and how they are taught. Let me give the noble Lord one example. We teach prison officers how to restrain prisoners who are being aggressive and potentially dangerous. We do that well, but we also need to teach them how to de-escalate problems by using the skills of talking and understanding the situation so that they can avoid using physical means. There is an awful lot more that needs to be done, and I will be interested to know whether Dame Lynne Owens talks about training in her report; I suspect she will, and I will happily take it on board.

Education in Prisons

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Tuesday 21st October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foster of Bath]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report by His Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Prisons A review of work and training provision in adult prisons, published on 13 October, regarding the impact of cuts to education in prisons.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

We inherited a crisis in our justice system and I am passionate and focused on providing good education and work opportunities, which are vital to prisoner rehabilitation. The education budget has not been cut—in fact, it has increased by 3%—but many prisons will face reduced delivery due to rising costs, while others will see an increase. We are focused on maximising value from new education services and expanding work opportunities through employer partnerships.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. I chair the Justice and Home Affairs Select Committee, and our recent report on prisoners made clear that we want to see a much wider range of education opportunities in our prisons, for more people, to help reduce reoffending and to make the public safer. As the Minister clearly said, he entirely agrees with that principle, but he has to accept, as the Chief Inspector of Prisons made very clear, that the current provision of education in our prisons is woefully inadequate. As the Minister pointed out, some provision of education in prisons is being reduced by as much as 50%. Can he at least assure us that, in addition to all the improvements in efficiency that he wants to make, he is lobbying hard for increased funding to pay for that much-needed education provision?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble Lord and I share the ambition for our prisons to be places where people turn their lives around, and education has a big part to play in that. We are making progress. In five prisons, we have the working week happening now—31 hours of purposeful activity. This year, 10% more prisoners participated in education compared to last year, which is really good. Our reading strategy is now in every prison, and the third sector is involved in that. I am a big believer that we need to strongly manage contracts. As I said last week, there are too many classrooms with teachers but not enough prisoners. We need to see more of them. I have also changed the word “education” in our prisons to “skills academy”, thinking that that would appeal more to our prisoners who did not have a good experience of education. I saw that last week in HMP Hindley, where I had positive feedback from the staff and prisoners.

[Baroness Bull (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned reading, but he knows that nearly 70% of people entering prison are assessed as having numeracy levels below that of a primary school child. This both hinders rehabilitation and increases recidivism. Is the Minister aware of Shannon Trust’s model of support? It uses peer mentoring to teach maths to prisoners who would not engage with traditional education. It is a model that can take place outside normal structures and reach parts of the prison that formal education cannot. What assessment have the Government made of this model of support and how might they provide further support to Shannon and other charities to roll it out more widely?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am a big fan of the Shannon Trust. It does fantastic work in many prisons and I would like to see more of it. A number of other third-sector organisations play an equally important role: Storybook Dads is one that I have been interested in for a long time, and the National Literacy Trust does really good work as well. The role of peer mentoring is important. Often, fellow prisoners and volunteers are the people who turn someone’s life around. I have employed many people from prison who did not come out of prison with great reading and maths but who were inspired by somebody who helped them to turn their lives around. The role of the Shannon Trust and others is crucial.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, as has been said, prison education is in a dire state. That is very clear from the report. Why have the contracts just been re-awarded to the same failing providers that are responsible for the mess? Rather than shoring up their profits, surely we should look at the advice being given by prison educators and the trade union UCU, which is calling for these contracts to be brought back in- house, for a standardised curriculum and standardised employment practices.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is aware that we are very reliant on fantastic teachers and educators in our prisons. For me, they are some of the finest public servants. They come in, day in, day out, in often very difficult circumstances. The government procurement situation is something that I am still trying to get my head around, coming from the commercial sector. It takes a little longer and is often more expensive than I would expect. We have more than 500 suppliers delivering education services in our prisons; I want to ensure that they deliver them to a high quality and that we hold them to account.

[Lord Keen of Elie (Con)]

My Lords, when asked last week why the Government were abandoning their manifesto commitment to reduce reoffending through access to prison education, the Minister replied:

“We are rebalancing because some prisons had an oversupply of education”.—[Official Report, 14/10/25; col. 165.]


Given that His Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Prisons has just found that education provision is atrocious, will the Minister now tell us how many prisons he believes have an oversupply of education provision?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I met the Chief Inspector of Prisons, Charlie Taylor, yesterday, and we discussed exactly this situation. We discussed, for example, Manchester prison, which used to have over 1,000 prisoners and now has, I think, about 650 to 700. That is why we have reduced the amount of money being spent on education in prisons such as Manchester, because there are just fewer prisoners. The noble and learned Lord is correct that it is about reducing reoffending. We have to focus on that, and education has an important part to play. But it is not just about being in a classroom. When I go and visit prisons, what is more important to the men and women I meet there is them learning a skill so that, when they are out, they can get a job, which means they stay out of prison. Last week, I visited a workshop at Lowdham Grange, where they were making sofas—on which a number of Members of your Lordships’ House probably sit on a regular basis—and a fantastic bricklaying workshop. It is not just about education but about learning skills for jobs on release.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord.

Does the Minister accept that the damage done in individual institutions by cuts in education and skills training is compounded by the effect of the churn going on in the prison population at the moment, meaning that many prisoners are in individual institutions for short periods of time before they are moved to another institution? That is very damaging to the effect, which the Minister was talking about, of having the encouragement to change.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I completely agree. Stability is really important. That is one of the things that I am trying to get into the system. The Sentencing Bill that will come to your Lordships’ House has a real focus on stability. The noble Baroness will know from her fantastic work in prisons that you want to be able to work with an individual for a long period of time to help them turn their life around. When I went to Eastwood Park, a women’s prison just north of Bristol, the average number of days a woman is there is 46. That is just not long enough to support them with their often significantly complex needs.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I acknowledge the Minister’s personal commitment to purposeful training within prisons and the contribution that he has made to providing work to prisoners who have been released, but there are 10 serious concerns identified in this report. Could the Minister say to the House what concrete and specific measures the Government are proposing to take in, say, the next six months to address the more serious of these 10 concerns?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I was clear when I started in this role that it is going to take time to fix what is a complex and troublesome system. Therefore, I cannot say exactly what I can achieve in the next six months. However, I am very clear that we need stability, and staff who are trained to deliver a safe and secure environment. From a position of education, it is important that staff have enough prisoners in their classrooms to teach. All too often, due to regime issues, security issues and so on, we have too many examples—as I saw on my prison visit to Hindley on Thursday—where people are locked up 22 hours a day. That is part of our inheritance but something I am having to deal with. I am addressing it in exactly the same way I addressed how I ran my business: focus, delivery and making sure I get accountability from the teams that are passionately engaged in what we are trying to do.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the omissions from the report from the group of the noble Lord, Lord Foster, is that there is no mention of AI. AI provides us with an opportunity for low-cost training, education and rehabilitation. Could the Minister say that, within the next six months, action will be taken to advance AI in prisons? You can engage prisoners more with AI than with traditional means. Maybe we could try to get some of the tech companies that are not paying tax to come in, working on a joint basis, and do some work in prisons to achieve the kind of objectives the Minister is seeking.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for the question. In over 70% of the meetings I have, AI is mentioned. Often, it is mentioned as a way that will solve problems much further down the line, but it is about how we can embrace it now to get the advantage of it. Digital learning is important in prisons and something that we need to push further on. There is a product called Launchpad, which is in people’s cells. It is basically an iPad-type device that they can learn, read and educate themselves on. There is a business called Coracle Inside that supplies lots of iPads and laptops to prisons. I recently was part of a “Dragons’ Den”, where a number of tech companies came to present some really interesting ideas, and a number of them mentioned AI in their presentation.

Prisoners: Reoffending

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Tuesday 14th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I beg to ask the Question standing on the Order Paper in the name of my noble friend Lord Hain.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

Reducing reoffending is my top priority. To break the cycle of crime, we are strengthening the rehabilitation offer in prison and the community, including increasing probation funding by 45%. We are recruiting more staff, expanding community housing and ramping up electronic monitoring—and that includes alcohol tags. Supporting prisoners into work is also something I care deeply about. Within six months of being in office, I launched regional employment councils, bringing together for the first time businesses, prisons, probation and the DWP to support offenders into work.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for that very positive Answer. I do not think anyone in the House underestimates the personal and professional concern the Minister has with reducing reoffending, which is why he is probably as concerned as the noble Lord, Lord Hain, and I that four out of every 10 prisoners still reoffend. Can he comment on that incidence? It seems that one of the problems is that universal credit is a digital benefit, and prison restrictions on computers mean that prisoners cannot easily access computers to make benefit claims for housing or jobs, for example, until they are released. In addition, they have to provide a verifiable address, an email address and a bank account. Is it not possible for the DWP and prison staff to get together to sort out these details well in advance so that when prisoners are released they can access the benefits to which they are entitled and get help with housing and jobs? It seems to me that otherwise we are in a situation where this is going to go on indefinitely because they are bound to drift back, at great cost to themselves and to us, into reoffending.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is right. We inherited a very difficult situation. Having been around prisons for 25 years, I know that we need to get to a point where it is sustainable, and that includes when people leave prison and find a job, housing and support. Since I came into the role, I have rolled out the DWP work coaches who engage with prisoners up to 12 weeks before they are released so that they get on to the system, but the other problem is whether they have a digital identity. When I was setting up the employment advisory boards, this was a clear problem, so we set up the banking and identity administrators. It is a mouthful of a job title, but they do a really important job. They get people bank accounts and driving licences, and get them on to the DWP systems. I have met a number of people in prison who, for the first time in their lives, have a bank account. But there is still much more we need to do. There are too many people leaving prison with no job and no house, and without access to alcohol and mental health treatment, as I saw in Bronzeville prison last week.

[Lord Clarke of Nottingham (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the biggest problem facing the rehabilitation work in which he has been so involved for decades now is that many of the prisons in which the training and other support is offered are overcrowded, dangerous, Victorian slums? As our incarceration rate is now the highest in Europe, thanks to the average prison sentence roughly doubling over the last few decades, would he consider reconsidering, with the Sentencing Council, the guidance given on the use of prison as a sentence to the courts? Does he agree that experience in the Netherlands and other countries where there has been enlightened reform shows that it has no adverse effect at all on the rate of offending and the crime rate in the country if incarceration rates are brought down to a more sensible level?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Having been to prisons in Holland before, it is clear that they have a different approach. With the Sentencing Bill, which will come to your Lordships’ House soon, the inspiration has been the Texas justice system, where they did things differently and crime has come down by 30% and they have closed 16 prisons. What is clear from going around our prisons—as I do most weeks—is that they are too full. Today is a good day, as they are 98.4% full. We see that as a really good result. It is very difficult for our hard-working prison staff to rehabilitate people in overcrowded conditions, but I could give your Lordships many examples of prisons that I am proud of, and the noble Lord would be proud of too, where our staff do a fantastic job, in prisons that are modern, of turning people’s lives around.

[Lord Keen of Elie (Con)]

My Lords, there was a manifesto commitment to reduce reoffending through improved access to education in prison. It has just been reported that the new national management contracts for prison education involve real budget cuts on average of 20% and in the case of some contracts of up to 60%. Can the Minister explain why, as a Justice Minister, he is abandoning the Government’s manifesto promise?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Education is absolutely vital. We want people to leave prison able to read and write, and far too many do not. The education budget is not being cut; we just get less value for money. We are rebalancing because some prisons had an oversupply of education, money and staff compared with others. I do not want to walk past classrooms in prisons that are half-full; they need to be full. We need to support people in prison with digital learning as well. It is not just about education; it is about how we get people ready for when they leave prison so that they do not come back. Education is an important part of it, but so is work, housing and their health.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, in support of the initiatives that I know the Minister is very much involved with and has mentioned, could he say what progress he is making to reduce the number of prisoners being released on a Friday afternoon?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is right that, in the past, that has been a significant problem. It still happens, but it happens far less. We try to release people on a Thursday, but some are still released on Fridays because of various technicalities. One of the things that I am working really hard at is getting people into housing when they are released. Over 14% of people leave prison with nowhere to live, and it is not surprising that they come back so often. For example, I was at HMP Bronzefield last week, a well-run prison. I found there that the women who are leaving with nowhere to live are coming back. The average length of stay of a woman in Bronzefield is 56 days. We need to ensure that there are more reasons why they can get out and stay out.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

How much of the £700 million promised to probation will be going to the Probation Service for more probation officers’ training and support, et cetera, and how much of it will be going to Serco for tags? The Chief Inspector of Probation, as I understand it, has yet to get a straight answer to this. If the Minister does not have the answer in front of him, perhaps he could write to me and leave a copy in the Library.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The extra £700 million for probation is a 45% increase. From what I have learned, all roads lead back to probation, and so that is where we need to focus our investment. We are recruiting 1,300 more staff and we will be recruiting more. We have not decided exactly how the money is going be split up. A lot of it will be for accommodation, some of it for tagging, and some of it for the support networks to help with mental health and work. I am confident that we can make big changes quickly, but we have to embrace digital technology. Far too much of probation officers’ time—70%—is spent doing admin, when I believe that 70% of their time should be spent face-to-face with offenders, helping them turn their lives around.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, will the Minister explain to the House how his approach will apply to those prisoners who are on indeterminate sentences? The frustration of being there year after year compounds the danger that, when they are released, this frustration will be taken out on the larger community, and yet there is a need for them to see daylight as soon as possible and to have some future. Can he give the House some assurance?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I believe that everybody who leaves prison should have the opportunity for a full life after they have served their punishment. We need to run prisons well, and it is difficult to run them well when they are 99.9% full. That is why our focus in the Sentencing Bill is on a sustainable justice system, so that prisons and probation can work hand in hand with the courts, the DWP and housing teams to make sure that, when people leave, they leave with confidence. We do not want people, in the lead-up to being released, to be concerned about having nowhere to live and all the other anxieties about coming out. That is one of the reasons why recall rates are still far too high.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I know the Minister is interested in particular in those prisoners with drink and drug problems. Is he aware that many of the recovery centres that operate around the country state that funding to try to keep prisoners in recovery from drink and drug problems is drying up? This is principally coming from the health service side, but the Minister has an equal interest in this. Could he explore it and try to find some assistance around these continuing problems with funding?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is right; this is absolutely vital for a number of people who leave prison. Some 49% of people go into prison with drug and alcohol problems. I have set up a drug and alcohol advisory panel with Dame Carol Black and others. I have also taken it one step further: I have been to an AA meeting to see how it works, and in the next two weeks I am going to my first NA meeting. I believe that the more of those types of meetings we have in prisons, the more opportunity people will have to overcome their addictions.

Criminal Justice Act 2003 (Removal of Prisoners for Deportation) Order 2025

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Monday 15th September 2025 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Timpson]

That the draft Order and Regulations laid before the House on 25 and 26 June be approved.

Relevant document: 31st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument). Considered in Grand Committee on 8 September.

Motions agreed.

IPP Sentences

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Monday 15th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to the recommendations in the report by the Howard League for Penal Reform entitled Ending the detention of people on IPP sentences: expert recommendations, published in June.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

This Government welcome and share the Howard League’s determination to support those serving the IPP sentence, but we cannot take any steps that would put the public at risk. For that reason, we remain firmly of the view that the Parole Board must determine that a prisoner serving the IPP sentence is safe to be released, having regard to the statutory release test, and that the IPP action plan is the best way to prepare offenders for release. The report includes a range of additional, complex recommendations which we are exploring in full.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, the new Justice Secretary, David Lammy, wrote to a constituent in 2021:

“As IPP prisoners spend longer and longer in prison without any prospect of release, their mental health continues to decline, and they start to display behavioural traits which makes their release even less likely”.


So he gets it. The Howard League report, which has a foreword by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, makes innovative recommendations as to how the residual prisoners—those who have never been released; there are about 1,000 of them—could make progress through the Parole Board systems. Will the noble Lord agree to discuss this with his new colleague and to make a formal response to the Howard League report, ideally in writing?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The Deputy Prime Minister, my new boss, shares my determination to do all we can for those serving IPP sentences and their families while ensuring that we do not take any steps that put the public at risk. Having visited prisons for over 20 years and met many IPP prisoners, I completely agree that a number of them need support with their mental health. That is why the IPP action plan is the right place to support those people, especially as we updated it on 17 July, and the progression panels with senior psychiatrists are already making a difference. In the last year, 154 IPPs have been released who have never been released before. But we have a lot more to do, and I will write to the noble Lord in due course.

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister inform the House of how many of these prisoners are now refusing to engage with the processes required to satisfy the Parole Board’s current tests for release because they have lost confidence in the system? If they have, is it not time to think again?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The Parole Board is the best way to determine whether someone’s risk is sufficient to be managed in the community. It is important that when IPP prisoners go in front of the Parole Board, they are prepared in a way to have a successful release. That is why the IPP action plan is the right way to go, and why we are seeing significant increases in the number of people released and rereleased. We need to make sure that the IPP action plan works but also—this is one of the things I am doing for most of my days—that our prisons are good prisons that rehabilitate people and that when they leave, they do not come back.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, can I commend the Minister’s approach? There are two sides to this story. One of them is obviously the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, about the difficulties faced by people who are indefinitely detained, but the other, which the Minister has, thankfully, mentioned every time he has had to speak on this issue, is the interests of the public and public safety. Therefore, the action plan, which tries to balance those two interests, is exactly the right way to approach this.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for his comments. What is important is that the Parole Board is doing a fantastic job; its staff are fantastic public servants. The release decisions are steady: 45% of hearings over the past five years have led to a positive release. The reason why I think that this is going in the right direction is that these people are increasingly complex individuals. That is why the IPP action plan is working; we need to keep the pressure on. One thing that I bring from my experience of running a business is improving everything, having targets, having real focus and holding people to account.

[Lord Hastings of Scarisbrick (CB)]

My Lords, as the Minister well knows, much of the pressure on our prisons, including on IPP prisoners, comes from the constant probationary pressing of the panic recall button. I know that the Minister’s folder will say, “Don’t say anything negative about probation”, but might he consider something in the Sentencing Bill that allows the power of recall to rest with the courts and not with probation officers, who, as we discovered on Thursday in HMP Belmarsh, are sending people back with such excessive frequency that it is unjust?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The Sentencing Bill implements the independent sentencing review. IPPs were not in scope of that review because it focused on sentences that are still on the statute books. I do not want to repeat myself, but the IPP action plan is the best way to prepare those people for release. I am really pleased that the noble Lord and others enjoyed the visit to HMP Belmarsh on Thursday; we had a really good opportunity to meet a number of prisoners, including an IPP prisoner.

What is also important, as the noble Lord mentioned, is our Probation Service. It is where the heaving lifting in the justice system is done, which is why I am proud that we are increasing the funding for probation by £700 million—a 45% increase.

[Lord Sandhurst (Con)]

My Lords, the current system is failing both prisoners and the public. It keeps prisoners in indefinite limbo, as we saw on our visit to HMP Belmarsh last week. It offers no clear route to safer release. My question is specific: what is wrong with the proposal for a two-year conditional release process?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question and for coming along on Thursday. The Parole Board is the best body to decide who is safe to be released, because public protection is our priority. If we went with the Howard League’s suggestion, it would mean people being released without their risk being assessed, which is not something that we are prepared to do.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

Sorry—a lot of us are very keen to speak up on this matter.

The six recommendations in the report are a brilliant way to ensure that IPP prisoners can be looked after properly and released safely. One recommendation that particularly struck me was one that I had moved previously: recommendation 4, which recommended that the aftercare duty provided under Section 117 of the Mental Health Act be extended to all ex-IPP prisoners. If someone happens to be sectioned under that section, many safe and timely ways to give additional help to high-needs individuals are available so that they can be released safely and remain in the community. Why not give the rest of them the same multiagency support as they would have received had they been incarcerated in a mental hospital?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

We have 233 IPP prisoners in secure mental health hospitals. From having been to the hospitals and met the individuals, I know that the care that they get from our nursing professionals is exceptional. It is also important that when they come back into the prison system, they have a soft landing and not a hard landing. That is an area that I am working on as we speak. Also important is that when people leave prison, they go to an approved premises. We have a trial going on where we are extending them going there from 12 to 16 weeks but also having a dedicated individual psychologist to support them. That is already having gains now.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

Does the Minister accept that the current recall system for IPP offenders is confused, confusing, overly bureaucratic and irrational, and that it creates injustice and just increases the number of mentally ill people and those without any hope in custody? Would he please accelerate his efforts to mend it?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble and learned Lord for his question, and for the work that he and the noble and learned Lord Thomas have done on this area. It is really important, and the focus has been very helpful. Already, the documents are clearer and more focused. Senior managers now oversee all recall decisions. From 3 November this year, we are extending the post-recall timeframes to improve planning and decision-making. That is thanks to Shirley Debono, who has helped us on that as well. The multidisciplinary progression panels are the way to do this, because we need to make sure that everybody who is in prison on an IPP sentence has hope, engages with the action plan, gets out and stays out.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain why IPP prisoners have to go to such lengths to prove that they are safe to leave custody before being released, while others in prison for similar offences do not? Does he agree that this difference in treatment is a further injustice against IPP prisoners, and that it is vital and urgent that we make progress in this area?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The Parole Board are the experts in deciding who is safe to be released. The release tests that it has are robust and fair, but we need to make sure that when people are in front of it, they are in a really good position to be released and released safely.

Sentencing Act 2020 (Amendment of Schedule 21) Regulations 2025

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Monday 8th September 2025 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Timpson]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Sentencing Act 2020 (Amendment of Schedule 21) Regulations 2025.

Relevant document: 31st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

My Lords, in December last year, my noble friend Lord Ponsonby made a Written Statement to the House announcing the Government’s plan to implement two outstanding recommendations made in the independent domestic homicide sentencing review, which was undertaken by Clare Wade KC.

In opposition, we welcomed this review and its approach of updating the sentencing framework for murder to reflect the seriousness of domestic homicides while also balancing the need to ensure that any reforms do not unduly punish abused women who kill their abuser. We did, however, call for more of Clare’s recommendations to be implemented, which is precisely what the draft instrument before us today aims to achieve. The measures in this instrument are central to the Government’s mission to keep our streets safe and halve violence against women and girls, as we anticipate that they will have a significant impact on the custodial terms given to the perpetrators in these cases, rightly recognising the seriousness of domestic murders.

The current sentencing framework for murder, as set out in Schedule 21 to the Sentencing Act 2020, was first introduced over 20 years ago, and multiple piecemeal amendments have been made to it since then. In recent years, particular concerns have been raised regarding gendered disparities for murders committed in a domestic context.

Clare Wade KC was commissioned by the previous Government to review sentencing in domestic homicide cases and establish whether the law and sentencing guidelines were fit for purpose. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to Clare for her thorough and considered work on this review, and to those whose campaigning led to the commissioning of this review. That includes Carole Gould and Julie Devey, founders of the Killed Women network and mothers of two young women, Ellie and Poppy, who were tragically murdered by their former partners in 2019 and 2018 respectively. We commend their courage in continuing to share their stories, and their commitment to campaigning for change.

Although some of Clare Wade’s recommendations were accepted and implemented by the previous Government, a number remain outstanding. This instrument implements two of the outstanding recommendations. First, it introduces a statutory aggravating factor for murders connected with the end of a relationship. In over a third of the murder cases analysed by Clare as part of her review, the murder occurred at the end or perceived end of the relationship, and in the majority of cases that appeared to be the catalyst for the killing. In all these cases the perpetrator was male. A murder involving resentment or jealousy by the perpetrator at the end of a relationship is a significant feature of cases involving controlling or coercive behaviour and is often the final controlling act of an abusive partner.

Secondly, this instrument introduces a statutory aggravating factor for murders involving strangulation. In recent years, strangulation has been recognised as a method of exerting power and control, particularly in the context of domestic abuse, where female victims are assaulted by physically stronger males. Nearly a third of the murder cases analysed involved strangulation, all of which involved a male perpetrator and female victim.

The intention of this instrument is to expressly recognise these factors in statute, to ensure that domestic murders and the particular harms that arise in these cases are given specialist consideration in the framework. Sentencing in individual cases is of course a matter for the independent judiciary, and it will therefore continue to be for the judge to determine the appropriate weight to be given to the aggravating factors in each case

I thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its consideration of this instrument and its report. As the committee noted, we consulted with the independent Sentencing Council on the draft instrument, in line with our statutory duty to consult the council before amending Schedule 21 by regulations. We are grateful for the council’s feedback on the draft instrument, which we took into careful consideration. A full account of the consultation is included in the draft Explanatory Memorandum published alongside this instrument, including the points raised by the Sentencing Council and the Government’s response.

Alongside this important legislation, the Lord Chancellor has also invited the Law Commission to conduct a review of homicide law and sentencing. The sentencing framework for murder was first introduced over 20 years ago and has never been subject to wholesale review. This contrasts with the Sentencing Council’s sentencing guidelines, which are regularly reviewed and updated, with any changes being subject to thorough consultation.

Although Clare Wade’s review and the legislation before us today go some way towards ensuring that the sentencing framework for murder reflects a modern understanding of domestic abuse, more fundamental reform is also required. The intention of the Law Commission review is a complete reconsideration of the sentencing framework for murder, with a view to making recommendations for a new Schedule 21. The review will also consider the law relating to homicide offences, including full and partial defences to those offences.

We anticipate that the Law Commission review will take several years to complete, and we will then need to consider the recommendations and bring forward any necessary legislation. This is the right course of action for such a complex area of law but it is not a quick one, which is why we are taking more immediate action in the short term by introducing the measures in this instrument.

[Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)]

My Lords, it is perhaps ironic that the first statutory instrument we considered was designed to relieve the pressure on the prison population, but these measures are calculated to increase the prison population. They will add to the list of aggravating features that a judge will have to take into account when considering the length of time to serve and, in reality, as the Minister said, they will have a significant impact on custodial terms.

Such amendments should be introduced only where it is plain that they are needed, and I express reservations as to whether that criterion is satisfied in this case. Of course, the amendments were recommended by Clare Wade in her review of domestic homicide sentencing. I pay tribute to her for that review, but it has not left me convinced that these measures are necessary or desirable.

The review puts a spotlight on the fact that the homicide of a woman by a man is often the final chapter of a coercive relationship in which the man has regularly abused the woman. I can see the arguments that, in those circumstances, the previous history aggravates the final act of homicide by the man, but effect has already been given to that factor by the addition last year to the list of aggravating factors in Schedule 21.

These regulations were considered on 14 July this year by the Second Delegated Legislation Committee of the House of Commons. On that occasion, as has been repeated today, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice said that the draft instrument was

“central to the Government’s mission to keep our streets safe and halve violence against women and girls”.—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 14/7/25; col. 1.]

The justification put forward appears to be that this will augment deterrence. The Opposition spokesman then referred to reasons why the previous Government had not taken forward these measures and to reservations expressed by the Sentencing Council, but indicated that the Opposition would not oppose the measures. I believe that the comment on these measures by the Sentencing Council was that they were “unnecessary” and “counterproductive”.

In this House, the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has made no adverse comment in relation to the measures, so I will briefly express my personal reservations. Schedule 21, which dates back to the Criminal Justice Act 2003, has had the unintended and unfortunate indirect consequence of approximately doubling sentence lengths across the board, contributing significantly to prison overcrowding. Adding to that list of aggravating factors will augment this effect and, as I said, should be contemplated only where there are compelling reasons.

The reason given for making strangulation a factor that augments the seriousness of the offence is stated, on page 21 of the Wade review, as being because

“strangulation includes additional suffering and greater harm”.

When one considers the many different ways in which a man may kill a woman, I question whether there is justification for singling out strangulation as, in itself, so increasing the horrific effect of the murder of the woman as to justify a result that may be several further years of imprisonment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the contributions to this debate. I hope that noble and noble and learned Lords will appreciate that, due to some personnel changes in the department over the last couple of days, I may not be as familiar with or as expert on this as my noble friend Lord Ponsonby, who would have been here today.

The observation of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Phillips, on prison capacity is important. Due to the existing length of murder sentences, these changes will not increase the prison population for at least 13 years after they come into force and will not reach a steady state until 2052 for strangulation and 2062 for the end of a relationship. This will be factored into our long-term capacity planning. Also, Clare Wade KC found that many domestic murders, invariably those committed by men against women, take place at the end of a relationship, when the perpetrator perceives that they can no longer control the victim. Further analysis of the sentencing remarks in these cases also found that, in some instances, the sentencing judge appeared to consider the provocation or distress caused to the perpetrator by the breakdown of the relationship as mitigation for the crime. This factor will ensure that the perpetrators in these cases take full responsibility for their crimes.

The noble Lords, Lord Marks and Lord Sandhurst, referred to Clare Wade’s recommendations. It is important to recognise that the Government are not taking forward the Domestic Homicide Sentencing Review’s recommendation to disapply the 25-year starting point to domestic murders. Implementing this recommendation would lead to significant inconsistency between domestic and non-domestic murders where a weapon has been taken to the scene. The review also recommended excluding sexual infidelity as mitigation, and excluding the use of a weapon as aggravation in domestic murder cases. The Government do not consider these recommendations to be necessary, as they largely involve putting a non-statutory position into legislation.

The Government recognise that application of the factor and whether there is sufficient evidence to establish it will depend on the circumstances and available evidence in a particular case. If evidence of the factor cannot be established to the criminal standard, the aggravating factor will not apply. The Government recognise that, in some cases, establishing whether the victim and offender had been in a relationship and whether this was connected to the murder may increase the length of some legal proceedings. The sentencing framework is clear that the statutory aggravating factors are not exhaustive; the sentencing judge is able to consider any relevant factors in terms of aggravation, including pregnancy and stalking. The end of a relationship factor in particular is not necessarily intended to acknowledge the vulnerability of the victim; it is intended to address the link between resentment at the end of the relationship on the part of the perpetrator and coercive control.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Phillips, and the noble Lord, Lord Marks, referred to strangulation. Strangulation has been recognised as a method of exerting power and control, which is particularly relevant in the context of domestic abuse where female victims are assaulted by physically stronger males. The review found that nearly a third of the murder cases involved strangulation—all of these involved a male perpetrator and a female victim—and highlighted that strangulation is a gendered form of killing that encapsulates the vulnerability of the victim and inflicts a high degree of suffering. I am sure that noble Lords will look forward to the process of the Law Commission’s review and keep a close eye on how it progresses, although it will take considerable time.

A number of today’s remarks gave general examples that are sobering reminders of the necessity of these reforms. The noble Lord, Lord Marks, is quite right to refer to victims being fearful of raising domestic abuse, even though it can sometimes be very severe abuse. I believe that the statutory aggravating factors introduced by this instrument are essential to ensure that our sentencing framework appropriately recognises the particular and wider harms that arise in cases of domestic murder. While it is for the judge to determine the appropriate weight to be given to the aggravating factors in each case, we expect that these measures, along with Clare Wade’s recommendations already implemented, will have a significant impact on the custodial terms given to perpetrators in these cases. This rightly recognises the seriousness of domestic murders, ensuring that sentencing in these cases delivers justice for victims and their families.

Motion agreed.

Criminal Justice Act 2003 (Removal of Prisoners for Deportation) Order 2025

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Monday 8th September 2025 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Timpson]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (Removal of Prisoners for Deportation) Order 2025.

Relevant document: 31st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

As noble Lords will know, when this Government came to power, we inherited a prison system in crisis. From January 2023 to September 2024, the adult male prison estate routinely operated at over 99% of capacity. Had we exceeded maximum capacity, the consequences would have been unthinkable: with nowhere to put new prisoners, the police would have stopped making arrests and courts would have suspended trials. It could have led to the total breakdown of law and order, with criminals running amok on our streets.

This Government carried out a series of emergency release schemes to prevent that disaster. At the same time, we launched the independent sentencing review, with one clear goal: to make sure we never run out of prison places. The highly regarded former Lord Chancellor, David Gauke, and his expert panel published their recommendations on 22 May, and the Government accepted the majority of them in principle.

One of the specific areas we asked the review to look at was how we tackle the number of foreign national offenders in our prisons. They currently account for around 12% of our prison population—that is 10,772 foreign national offenders as of June this year—and cost British taxpayers millions of pounds every year.

The Government have made it very clear that foreign nationals should be in no doubt that the law will be enforced, and, where appropriate, we will work with the Home Office to pursue their removal. I am pleased to say that in our first year of government, we have removed 14% more foreign national offenders than in any year that the previous Government were in office. But we must go further and faster, in removing individuals who have broken our laws and who have no right to be here.

The draft instrument before the Committee today implements the sentencing review’s recommendation to reduce the minimum period that foreign national offenders have to spend in prison from 50% to 30% of the custodial term, and to increase the window in which they can be removed.

I thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its consideration of this instrument and its report.

As noble Lords will know, the Secretary of State has a power to remove eligible foreign national offenders—those serving a determinate sentence who are liable to be removed from the UK—from prison for the sole purpose of immediate deportation. This is referred to as the early removal scheme. Foreign national offenders serving indeterminate sentences, life and sentences of imprisonment for public protection are outside the scope of the scheme. Prisoners serving a sentence for a terrorism-related offence set out in Schedule 19ZA to the Criminal Justice Act 2003 are also excluded.

The power to remove a foreign national offender under this scheme is discretionary, and prison governors can refuse to remove individuals where it would undermine public confidence in the criminal justice system—for example, where there is clear evidence that the prisoner is planning further crime, including plans to evade immigration control and return to the UK or dealing in class A drugs in custody—or, finally, where there are serious public safety concerns regarding early removal.

Under the current rules, eligible offenders can be removed up to 18 months before the earliest release point of the sentence, provided they have served one-half of the requisite custodial period. This SI amends the Criminal Justice Act 2003 to allow foreign national offenders to be removed up to four years before the earliest release point of their sentence, subject to having served 30% of the requisite custodial period. This means eligible offenders can be removed from prison earlier.

At current removal rates, we expect this change to free up to approximately 500 prison spaces a year. Not only will it help us to safeguard prisons from collapse, with all the risks that poses to the public, it will also prevent taxpayers’ money being spent to keep foreign nationals in this country any longer than necessary.

Noble Lords will also know that the Government are seeking to go further still in the Sentencing Bill, which was introduced on 2 September, by removing any minimum custodial requirement, so foreign national offenders can be removed from prison immediately after they are sentenced. In line with the existing early removal scheme, this further change will apply to all foreign criminals serving a determinate sentence, except terrorists and prisoners serving indeterminate sentences, such as life, who will be excluded.

Until this change takes effect, this SI will ensure that foreign offenders with no right to be here can still be removed from prison for the purpose of deportation earlier. This will protect victims by ensuring that those individuals can never offend in this country again, and if they return in breach of a deportation order, they will be liable to serve the rest of their sentence.

Indeed, concern for the protection of victims is driving the changes we are making through the sentencing review and now the Bill as a whole. By ensuring that we never again risk running out of prison places, we will ensure that our criminal justice system can function effectively and sustainably, keeping us all safe.

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for his helpful and brief introduction to what is, in effect, a relatively simple instrument. It comes against a background, as he explained, of the appalling shortage of prison places that the Government inherited and that has only got worse, inevitably, during this Government. The overcrowding that has been the result of that shortage and the crisis that has given rise to the early release scheme have to be ended as quickly as possible; for example, the use of police cells where there has been simply no space for custody within our prisons is unacceptable, and there has been an unholy scramble for places for prisoners wherever they might be found across the estate. That is the inevitable result of a prison system running at 99% of capacity.

The consequences of the prison shortage have been outlined by the Minister, and the clear goal of the Government has been to reduce prison numbers over time, although they rightly accept that that will take a great deal of time. I know the Minister is concerned to concentrate on shorter sentences and rehabilitation, but I am grateful to him for putting the numbers on this instrument—that it is expected to save 500 prison places a year, which is a significant number.

However, in one sense, this instrument is directed at an easy target, because the deportation of convicted foreign offenders, who are liable to be deported anyway, is generally justified in principle for all the reasons the Minister gave and is widely supported. It may also be said that our national Government have little interest in what happens to deported prisoners after they are deported, so that if they leave our prisons earlier than envisaged at the time of sentence, that does little harm, but the instrument rightly excludes some serious offenders from the ambit of the reduction.

However, I note the regret of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee at the lack of review of the need for changes in this early removal scheme. The committee was concerned at the lack of information given to Parliament as to both the number of foreign national offenders likely to be affected by these changes and the treatment that such deported offenders would be likely to receive in their home countries following deportation. The committee reported that

“it would have been helpful for the EM to include background information … on FNO sentences and the treatment of deported prisoners in their home countries”.

It helpfully dug out a considerable quantity of additional information that was within the public domain that it found helpful, and it reported on that.

As a general point, the interest that the United Kingdom Government have in foreign national offenders should not cease altogether when such offenders are deported. At whatever stage, the Government and Parliament have an interest in considering the fate of deportees after they left this country and any continuing risk that they might present if they should return to the United Kingdom—or to United Kingdom citizens abroad, of course. Hence, the overall conclusion of the committee was that, while it recognised the urgency of the need to reduce the pressure on prison capacity, as we all do,

“the information provided with such instruments should … facilitate full scrutiny by Parliament. This means there should be a discussion of the risks as well as the benefits of the measures and adequate background information to understand the full effects; preferably, supported by an analysis of … similar changes”.

It is clearly the committee’s view that Parliament had not had that kind of information to the level of detail that we should have done.

I endorse that conclusion. However, subject to those caveats, I broadly support the measure to enable deportation at an earlier stage of prisoner sentences following sentence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for noble Lords’ contributions to this important debate about foreign national offenders in our prisons.

The noble Lord, Lord Marks, rightly referred to the crisis that we inherited and how having offenders in police cells is not acceptable. What we need is a sustainable justice system. Our prison population is still going to increase. We are building 14,000 more prison places—as I know we have said before, that is 500 more than the previous Government did in 14 years—but we need those extra prison places.

When foreign national offenders are deported, what is clear is that they are not welcome back. Although deportation policy sits with the Home Office, for me, it is clear is that, if they return, they will be locked up and will finish their sentence. The noble Lord, Lord Sandhurst, rightly referred to our desire to deport more of our foreign national offenders. We have increased that figure by 14%, but we know that more can be done. That is why this legislation will be helpful.

I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Sandhurst, will be interested to know that, before the Recess, I went to HMP Huntercombe, which is a prison for foreign national offenders. It was clear that, although the governor knew that he could refuse to remove prisoners, the new foreign national offender team that we have in the prison—as in 91 other prisons—was making a big difference in supporting foreign national offenders leaving early, as well as encouraging them to do so. That is starting to make a difference, but it is clear that the Sentencing Bill is needed to help us get a sustainable justice system; that Bill has within it immediate deportation post sentencing.

A quarter of our foreign national offenders are on remand so have not yet been convicted. I am aware that the previous Home Secretary—I have not spoken to the new Home Secretary since she has moved across Westminster—was looking at Article 8 as well.

The proposed changes in the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (Removal of Prisoners for Deportation) Order 2025 will enable the Government to remove foreign national offenders from prison for the purpose of immediate deportation earlier in their sentence. By removing them from the country earlier, we will better protect victims from their reoffending. This will also help ease a prison capacity crisis inherited from the previous Government, keeping the public safer and ensuring that less of their tax money is spent on those who come to this country and abuse our hospitality by committing crime.

Motion agreed.

Prisons: Early Release

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Wednesday 9th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the long-term impact of schemes for early release from prison on public confidence in the justice system.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

The previous Government introduced the end of custody supervised licence scheme, which released over 13,000 prisoners without any impact assessment. It is clear that this Government inherited a prison system on the verge of collapse. We introduced SDS40, which was safely implemented thanks to our hard-working staff. A full impact assessment was published for our measure. We are now embarking on long-term sentencing reforms to place prisons on a sustainable footing so that we can protect the public and maintain public confidence in the justice system.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Rather than ending automatic early release of prisoners, many of whom now serve only 40% of their sentence in prison, would it not make more sense to shift to a system of earned early release, whereby prisoners can earn the opportunity to be released early based on good behaviour and completion of training, education, work and rehabilitation programmes? Does the Minister not agree that such an alternative approach would go further in restoring public confidence in the justice system?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The noble Lord has obviously been studying the plans that we have been looking at, especially the Texas model, which I think he refers to. There are two ways of looking at how we can incentivise prisoners to behave when they are in prison and engage with purposeful activities and education. One is the Texas model, which I describe as going down the hill: for every week they are well behaved, they get time off their sentence. The other is going up the hill: if they behave badly, they can get extra days. The model we prefer is the latter. It is clear that if prisoners assault officers they should, via adjudication, receive extra days. I am a big believer in incentives and in looking at other examples internationally. The Texas model is one where I think we all recognise that there has been a dramatic reduction in reoffending of those released from prison.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that when a prisoner is discharged, particularly in early discharge, they have somewhere to stay when they have left prison? Secondly, can he assure the House that every effort is made to reinforce the conditions of their discharge, so that the general public can be sure that people who have been discharged from prison will be properly supervised and their behaviour will be kept under review?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The release scheme that we inherited from the previous Government was very chaotic. Far too many people left prison and were recalled very quickly, which meant that more victims were created. The SDS40 scheme was far more stable and organised, and probation colleagues had the time to find accommodation. The noble Lord is completely right: accommodation is one of the key factors in ensuring that when someone gets out of prison, they stay out. We have far too many people still leaving prison with NFA against their name, and that is totally unacceptable. The £700 million extra funding that we have secured for probation is important. A lot of that will go on accommodation, tagging, extra staff and technology.

[Lord Keen of Elie (Con)]

My Lords, as I have suggested on a number of earlier occasions, the Government’s proposed policy on early release is flawed. Does the Minister now accept that the Government should expressly address whether technical or minor breaches of licence conditions by non-violent offenders should not result in recall to prison, whether for 28 days or otherwise? That would go a considerable way towards relieving pressure on our prison capacity.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The crisis we inherited in the justice system meant that, had we not acted, we would have run out of prison places, on the basis that the previous Government built only 500 prison places when the population of prisons increases by 3,000 a year. That is why, by the time of the next election, there will be more people in prison than ever before. On recall, it is important that our probation professionals use their judgment based on risk. When people leave prison, we need to give them all the tools possible so that when they get out, they stay out. I do not want them having a return ticket back to prison; I want them to have a one-way ticket. That is why accommodation and all the support services we put around people will ensure that there are fewer recalls.

[Lord Lemos (Lab)]

Does my noble friend the Minister agree that the real route to public confidence in the prison system is, first, not to have overflowing prisons and lengthy court delays before trial, bequeathed by the last Government to this Government, and secondly, not just to lock people up for longer and longer but to ensure that the Probation Service is effective at reducing risk and protecting the public, as well as rehabilitation?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend is right that probation is where the heavy lifting in the justice system needs to be done. I would like to let your Lordships’ House know that last week I was in a women’s prison, where the average length of stay of a woman was 46 days. There was also one very ill woman who, on average, tries to take her life over 20 times a month. We are dealing with people who are both very ill and very complex, and often the best way to reduce reoffending of these people and deal with their offending behaviour is to punish them in the community and support them in the community.

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)]

My Lords, the Question from the noble Lord, Lord Murray, referred to “public confidence”. On the basis that the Government are right that early release schemes have been essential to save our prison system from collapse, would that not be the ultimate disaster for public confidence? As well as working on their response to the Leveson report, will the Government now urgently implement David Gauke’s proposals for a presumption against short prison sentences, for more community sentences and for more early release on licence? Should the Government not also encourage a review of the sentencing guidelines with a view to bringing prison sentences here down to the level of those imposed elsewhere in Europe?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The review that David Gauke and his panel undertook will form a very important part of the reform of the criminal justice system that we need. We need a sustainable criminal justice system, and that includes the review that Sir Brian Leveson has published today. On short sentences, it is important that the judiciary still has the power in exceptional circumstances to send people to prison for short sentences. Victims must come first, and the worst thing for victims would be for us to allow prisons to run out of places. We cannot run out of prison places, and the action that we are taking will ensure that we have a sustainable prison system.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

Is the Minister satisfied that the Probation Service is properly resourced to manage and supervise prisoners on discharge?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

At the moment, the Probation Service is really struggling. It is struggling because of the workload of staff and the lack of integrated technology—staff spend far too much time doing admin rather than spending face-to-face time with offenders. When it comes to resourcing, when I leave this place eventually and go back to running my business, I would like the Lord Chancellor to support me in negotiations, because the amount of money that we managed to secure for probation, £700 million, is a really important amount—nearly a 45% increase. That, along with the other reforms that I am planning to do on probation, will go a long way.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, nothing undermines public confidence more than miscarriages of justice, and there is no bigger miscarriage of justice than IPP prisoners. Can the Minister kindly explain why these people are not being given the same opportunity for early release as the people we are talking about today?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

My noble friend has done fantastic work championing the cause of IPP prisoners. It is clear that people should be released when the Parole Board determines that they are safe to be released. We are using all the levers at our disposal to make sure we do everything we can so that IPP prisoners get released from prison and stay out of prison.

[Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)]

My Lords, how does the reoffending rate of those released early compare with that of those released after full term?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The early release scheme that we inherited from the previous Government had a high reoffending rate. On the controlled SDS40 releases, while we are still analysing the figures, the themes that I am seeing show that the reoffending rates were no higher than we normally see. My overall plan is to reduce reoffending rates generally, which is why I am pleased I managed to get that into my job title.

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

My Lords, the Domestic Abuse Commissioner has accused the Government of watering down the criminal justice system at the expense of victims’ safety. What assurance can the Minister give to women, given the PM’s commitment on VAWG, that abusers will receive and serve custodial sentences?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

We are not abolishing short sentences entirely, and judges will retain the power to hand down sentences of under a year in exceptional circumstances—for example, to provide a victim of domestic abuse with a period of respite. I know this is particularly vital to safeguard victims of domestic abuse and violence against women and girls. Breaches of protective orders linked to VAWG, such as stalking and domestic abuse protection orders, will also be excluded from the presumption against short sentences.

Prisons: Mothers and Babies

Lord Timpson Excerpts

Monday 7th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lemos]

To ask His Majesty’s Government how many mothers are in prison with their babies, and what consideration they are giving to making alternative arrangements for them to serve their sentences or for their children to be cared for.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab)]

At the end of March 2024, there were 38 mothers and 36 babies in mother and baby units. There are currently six mother and baby units across the women’s prison estate in England, providing specialist accommodation and support services. These enable mothers, where appropriate, to have their babies with them in prison. Sentencing is a matter for the independent judiciary, but this Government have a clear goal of reducing the number of women in prison.

[Lord Lemos (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for that Answer. As well as the 38 mothers with babies he refers to, there are more than 200 pregnant women in prison. Typically, babies are parted from their mothers in prison at 18 months. If these mothers are no risk to their babies, are they really a risk to anyone else? Should they be in prison at all? Does my noble friend the Minister think there are better arrangements that we could make for mothers with babies serving custodial sentences—for example, secure mother and baby homes in the community?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

To answer my noble friend’s question head-on, whether these women should be in prison is a matter for sentencers to decide in each individual case. However, we have embarked on major changes to the sentencing framework, including to short sentences, to which 75% of women are sentenced. This will help to reduce the number of women, including pregnant women, in prison. On his question about arrangements for women and their babies, just last week I was in the mother and baby unit at HMP/YOI Eastwood Park, speaking to the mums there. In my view, the facilities and support offered were exceptional, and I am grateful both to the staff and to the third sector organisations, such as Action for Children, for providing that support. We need to maintain those standards of care in custody, but the real answer to this question lies in tackling the structural problems that lead these women into the criminal justice system in the first place. That is what the Women’s Justice Board, which I proudly chair, seeks to address—early intervention, diversion from prison and community solutions—so that we have fewer women in prison, including their babies too.

[Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)]

My Lords, the six mother and baby units are successful. However, 17,000 children a year are separated from their mothers by imprisonment, harming both children and mothers. The impact of domestic abuse and drug addiction is overwhelming. Last Monday ITV News ran an article in which the noble Lord was interviewed and rightly described prison for many women as a “disaster”. So how quickly can we cut the use of prison for mothers of young children to a minimum and provide women offenders with the therapeutic environments they so badly need?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. He is exactly right: we need to do more and do it faster. That is why the Women’s Justice Board is acting very quickly and coming up with its answers in the next few months. For me, what is really important is the intensive supervision court model, which we are very enthusiastic about, especially the one in Birmingham that is just for female offenders. Instead of them going to prison, we offer the wraparound support services so that they can stay out of prison and stay in the community. This comes back to a subject that I am very passionate about, attachment. It is really important for mothers to be with their children so that they can gain the attachment that, if not secured in their early years, can cause significant problems later on. As someone who was brought up with hundreds of foster children in my life, I am well aware of the issues around attachment in young children.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, an experiment in Oxford some 50 or 60 years ago showed that a newborn baby cat, if blindfolded for more than about six to eight weeks, would remain permanently visually impaired thereafter. We know that the infant brain is developing faster in those first two years than at any other time. I congratulate the noble Lord on what he is doing in trying to improve the environment for women and their children. Does he think that more could be done and, if so, how would we do it?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I have seen all the mother and baby units in our prisons, and they are stimulating and incredibly professionally run. I also know that many foster parents and families who look after children of mothers in prison do an incredible job. But we are dealing with women in the justice system, most of whom are victims, most of whom are very ill, most of whom are suffering from addiction and most of whom have mental health problems too. That is why it is important that the wraparound services that we have to support them do so and do so quickly.

[Earl Attlee (Con)]

My Lords, we are all very grateful for the efforts of the Minister in this matter. He is very careful to maintain judicial independence and independence from sentencing, but is he convinced that the sentencers are invariably cognisant of whether a female offender is pregnant?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The experts who work in the justice system and social services are the best placed to decide how to support mums and their babies when they are in the justice system. We have recently introduced social workers in four prisons. That is a really important role, and I am looking to see how well it is going—but so far, so good. As I said in a previous answer, the complexity of these women’s lives means that we need an awful lot of support, but in my view that support is worth it, especially in those early years.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

For mothers in those units, how is the monitoring undertaken to make sure that they are not being given drugs through illicit routes to maintain their drug addiction? Are they routinely tested for substances to try to help them come off drugs and maintain better bonding with the baby as a result? Are they also tested for viruses that might be a problem if they decided that they wished to breastfeed?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am not familiar with the exact details on testing, but I know that we have mandatory drug testing in all prisons on a regular basis. I am also aware, from having foster children at home, that when we opened the fridge we used to be careful whether we got out the Calpol or the methadone. Too many drugs get into prisons and too many people who go to prison are addicted to drugs. We need to deal with that, and we need to do it quickly.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

My Lords, as there is no women’s prison in Wales, can the Minister give an update on the residential centre in Swansea?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The residential centre in Swansea is something that we are considering. We have had the spending review and we are waiting for the allocation process. I know it has planning permission. We talk about it a lot with Welsh colleagues. Other residential and non-residential centres for women, such as Hope Street in Southampton and Willowdene, are really important, not just to help them recover, often from addiction and mental health issues, but as a safe space. A number of the women in the criminal justice system are there because of dysfunctional relationships; often they experience violence at home, so these need to be very safe places.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, there is a great difficulty here in that the penalties have to be applied equally to men and women despite their circumstances, which might be different. Is the Minister satisfied that it is more in the interests of children always to be with the mother in prison, rather than being outside that environment and being looked after more adequately by society?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Children always have to come first in these decisions. I have met a number of mums in prison who are with their babies, and it is the best place for them and their baby. It is a safe place, they are getting a huge amount of wraparound support and they are able to build really important relationships with their young children, but it is for the judiciary to decide who goes to prison.

[Baroness Gohir (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister able to share what support is given to women once they leave prison and how long it is provided for?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The general rule is that babies can stay with mothers in prison for up to 18 months, but there is flexibility so they can stay longer if required. It is really important that when women leave prison with their babies, they have somewhere to live and a wraparound support network. That is why it is important that we give them a soft landing when they leave prison. This is where probation comes in and where the £700 million in extra funding that we have will be really important to make sure that we get that first night accommodation, because we do not want anybody leaving prison with no fixed abode.

[Lord Sandhurst (Con)]

My Lords, the Prison Reform Trust’s 2025 report found that two-thirds of mother and baby units are operating above safe capacity. Can the Minister confirm how many mothers are currently held in standard, non-MBU prison accommodation with infants due to those shortages? What urgent steps are being taken to address this?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Having been chair of the Prison Reform Trust, I should know the details of that question, but I do not have them to hand so I will write to the noble Lord with the exact details. It is really important that we keep monitoring what happens in mother and baby units, because the children are our priority. We need to make sure that mum and baby leave there in a very safe way.