Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Bill

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

3rd reading
Tuesday 14th May 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Douglas-Miller]

That the Bill do now pass.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, as it is Third Reading and this is supposed to be formal, I shall be very brief and just say how delighted I am to see how swiftly the Bill has made its passage through both Houses. It is an important Bill that many of us have campaigned to see for many years, and I very much welcome it and thank all those who have been involved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

To be honest, that was a slightly longer list of questions than I was expecting at this stage.

First, I thank all those who have been so kind to support the Bill. I am acutely aware that an awful lot of individuals, Members of this House and the other place, members of the public and other organisations, have been campaigning for this Bill for a very long time, and I am delighted that we have got it to this stage. I am also acutely aware that there are some challenges in certain places where I have been unable to satisfy the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on the specific details. However, I think that they are acutely aware that it is probably beyond my remit to address those issues. I have tried extremely hard through both individual engagement and the debates that we have had up to this stage to put the Bill in the position that I think we all want it to conclude on, which is one where it will pass.

Therefore, I feel sad that I cannot satisfy everybody in this space, but I genuinely believe that we can collectively be proud of this Bill, and it does exactly the right thing at this moment in time.

Bill passed.

Pet Abduction Bill

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 10th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

I start by putting on record my thanks to my noble friend Lord Black for supporting this important Bill. He is a great champion of animal welfare overall, and I know he has followed the discussions on today’s topic particularly closely. I am delighted that he has chosen to steer this Bill through the House. I know it will be in safe hands, in the animal Parliament that he described.

There are more than 20 million cats and dogs in the country, and over a quarter of households own at least one of these animals. The noble Baronesses, Lady Hayman and Lady Bakewell, both spoke passionately about the companionship and friendship that animals bring. In my own home in Scotland, there are always four happy faces and wagging tails there to greet me when I return from a week here in London.

The Government strongly support this Bill, which represents another important step in our progress on animal welfare. It delivers one of the key recommendations from the Government’s pet theft taskforce. This cross-government group was convened in 2021 in response to an apparent rise in pet theft during the Covid pandemic, at a time when many households decided to buy or adopt a new pet.

We understand the devastating impact that the theft of a pet can have. While stealing an animal is already an offence, the fact that the item stolen is a live animal is not explicitly recognised by existing theft offences. The Pet Abduction Bill changes that by making abduction of a cat or a dog a specific offence in England and Northern Ireland. The intention is that this Bill will allow the courts to place greater focus on the impact on the welfare of the animal as well as the interests of its owner when deciding on the appropriate penalty in an individual case. It also allows pet abduction cases to be recorded and therefore traced, to help inform the scale of the issue, a point raised by a number of noble Lords this morning.

The Bill focuses on cats and dogs, given their status as the most popular pets. However, we recognise the value of other pets. The Bill includes an enabling power that will allow the Secretary of State in respect of England, or the Department for Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in respect of Northern Ireland, to introduce similar bespoke offences for other species commonly kept as pets, if there is evidence of the need for this. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, talked about repatriation across devolved Administrations. I hope that we will not get to that—the devolved Administrations have similar plans to introduce this type of legislation, and we are working closely with them.

As my noble friend Lord Black has already eloquently outlined, the abduction offences differ between cats and dogs, in that the cat abduction offence is limited to the taking, only, of cats. This reflects the lifestyle differences between cats and dogs, with cats often roaming independently and enjoying the odd nap on someone else’s sofa—perhaps not the sofa of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, as it will be full of mice, although that might be why they would go there—or a bite to eat from a different feed bowl. Simply feeding someone else’s cat will generally not be an offence. However, one can imagine cases where someone deliberately uses food or other tactics as a means of taking a cat. It is right that the Bill allows flexibility for those cases to be tried as pet abduction. This difference also strikes the right balance in not wanting to discourage people from looking after stray cats that need their help. Animal welfare organisations such as the RSPCA, Cats Protection and Battersea have excellent information available on what people should do if they find a cat that they believe is a stray. There are also clear legal requirements around what people must do when they find a stray dog, both in England and Northern Ireland. In both countries, this includes a requirement to involve the local area’s authorities.

The offences in the Bill will not apply in certain situations where disputes about the ownership of a dog or cat are likely to arise between members of a household when they separate and cannot agree on which member should be allowed to keep the dog or cat. This approach reflects one of the findings of the pet theft taskforce—that reports to the police of pet theft were sometimes linked with divorce cases. By excluding these types of cases, the Bill will rightly prevent attempts to use the new offence to address household disputes about pet ownership.

My noble friends Lord Blencathra and Lord Holmes asked about the police taking seriously the unlawful taking of pets. The public rightly expect police to respond when a crime is reported to them, working with partners across the criminal justice system to see more criminals charged and prosecuted. Police forces across England and Wales have committed to pursuing all lines of inquiry when there is a reasonable chance that it could lead to them catching a perpetrator or solving a crime.

My noble friends also raised a number of points around sentencing. This Bill is designed to deal with the unscrupulous people who abduct a cat or a dog. The maximum sentence attached to this crime will be up to five years in prison, an unlimited fine, or both. This is the same as the maximum term for animal welfare offences under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011. I hear what my noble friends say, but I feel it is right that the maximum penalty aligns with other serious animal welfare offences in this way.

In response to my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond’s points about guide dogs, they are very much in the scope of the dog abduction offence. The Bill applies to dogs as a species and does not distinguish between types of dogs. When dealing with an offence, the courts already have a broad range of sentencing powers to deal effectively and appropriately with offenders. In deciding what sentence to impose, the courts take into account the circumstances of the offence and any aggravating and mitigating circumstances.

My noble friend Lord Blencathra rightly pointed out that the popularity of pets is subject to trends. The wording of the enabling power allows it to remain relevant over time, even if the pet-keeping practice changes. The assessment of whether such animals can be considered to be a species commonly kept as a pet for the purposes of this Bill would form part of the consideration to engage the Bill’s enabling power. That power is further restricted by the Government’s duty to consult such persons as they consider appropriate before making legislation. In addition, any such legislation is subject to the affirmative procedure. The House will therefore have the opportunity to scrutinise the rationale for adding to or removing from the Bill any particular species, should that power be used.

My noble friend Lord Blencathra also raised the issue of cats predating on songbirds—but perhaps not the cat of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, in this case. My officials met the SongBird Survival charity recently. They heard about research by the University of Exeter, which showed that owners can reduce their cat’s hunting by adjusting their cat’s diet or by spending short periods playing with them. SongBird Survival’s education campaign, run jointly with Cats Protection, aims to spread awareness of how to reduce cat hunting this spring. We look forward to continuing our engagement and hearing the outcome of this campaign.

Before I finish, I want to touch on the issue of microchips, which was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and my noble friend Lord Black, when he spoke very eloquently about Clooney, the Siamese who disappeared from his owner’s garden in Norfolk. My noble friend referenced Clooney’s microchip and the fact that it had been scanned and checked while Clooney was missing from his home, but that, heartbreakingly, his owner had not been made aware. Microchips are the best way to reunite people with lost and abducted animals. The microchipping of dogs has been compulsory in England since 2016, and for even longer in Northern Ireland. From 10 June this year, cats in England that are older than 20 weeks will need to be microchipped and registered on a compliant database. There is abundant evidence that microchipping works to bring animals home, which is why it is so sad to hear that in Clooney’s case it did not work.

To conclude, the Government are committed to this Bill. We have further strengthened this commitment during the passage of the Bill through the other place by adding the commencement date for these offences in England into the Bill. They will enter into force here three months after Royal Assent. This Bill addresses an issue that campaigners have long been calling for. I am grateful for the support from the many animal welfare organisations and individuals. This Bill also further strengthens our already strong track record on animal welfare, something that I know noble Lords rightly feel strongly about. I thank noble Lords for their considered contributions to this debate; it is clear that this is a subject close to people’s hearts. I too express my hope that we can work together to get this Bill on to the statute book by the summer—and in time for my noble friend’s birthday.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

In view of my noble friend’s assurances that the Government will not allow willy-nilly any species to be classed as a commonly kept pet, and if he continues his work in Defra discussing how cat owners can make sure that their cats are not killing too many songbirds or others in the garden, I can give the House an assurance that I may be persuaded not to move any amendments.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My noble friend is very kind.

Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Bill

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 8th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord de Clifford, and to all other noble Lords who have spoken so eloquently and passionately on these efforts to ensure that this Bill brings to an end excessively long journeys for all species likely to be exported for slaughter and fattening. I reassure noble Lords that the Government are fully in agreement on that point. We wish to put a permanent end to this unnecessary trade for all animals, and I believe that the definition of “relevant livestock” in the Bill will achieve that aim.

I shall begin by summarising the process of evidence gathering and consultation that led to the drafting of the list of species included in the Bill. In 2018, the Government launched a call for evidence on live exports for slaughter and on animal welfare in transport, alongside a systematic review conducted by Scotland’s Rural College and the University of Edinburgh. The UK, Scottish and Welsh Governments then commissioned a report from the Farm Animal Welfare Committee, which drew on this evidence, as well as a range of expert opinion from stakeholder engagement. Building on these findings, in 2020 we consulted widely on the ban on live exports for livestock and horses and received over 11,000 responses. During the consultation, we received no evidence that a ban on any other species was necessary. We have also received no such evidence since.

In the 10 years prior to EU exit, the live export trade for slaughter and fattening mainly involved sheep and unweaned calves. There have also been exports of pigs and goats for fattening, although these have been at significantly lower levels. While there have been no recorded exports of horses for slaughter, there is anecdotal evidence to suggest that the trade does exist. The definition of “relevant livestock” therefore already covers the species required for the Bill to bring an end to the unnecessary live export trade for slaughter and fattening. We also discussed this amendment in the context of alpacas, llamas and deer. In the UK, there are extremely low numbers of these animals compared with the numbers of farmed animals already covered by the Bill. More importantly, we have no evidence of any of these species being exported for slaughter or fattening from Great Britain to the EU, or that there is any demand for a trade in live exports of these species from the EU or elsewhere.

I understand noble Lords’ desire to ensure that the ban will apply to all relevant animals, at present as well as in the future. When considering the data we have on the slaughter export trade, I continue to hold the view that the definition of “relevant livestock” in the Bill is comprehensive and the proposed power to extend it is not required. The Government wish to see the unnecessary slaughter and fattening trade brought to a conclusive end at the earliest opportunity. I am sure this desire is shared by those here today and all those who support the Bill outside Parliament. Today, we have the chance to act swiftly and decisively to bring the end of this trade one step closer, and I therefore respectfully ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, for introducing her Amendment 2. It seems to be a perfectly reasonable suggestion to review the impact on farming, for the reasons that she introduced and other noble Lords mentioned, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering. Our farmers have had a pretty tough time over the last few years. There have been a lot of changes, and this is another change—one that we strongly support. We need to ensure that our farmers are always steered and supported through any major change to the way their businesses have to operate.

An important point has been made about farmers’ concerns about being undercut by cheap imports, including the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, about poultry in particular. It is very expensive for our farmers to bring in the new systems on animal welfare that we expect them to. It is good that they do so and that we farm to particularly high animal welfare standards in this country, but we should not allow the sale of produce in this country that does not meet those same standards. When we do our trade deals, we need to be really careful about what we are opening a door to. We should always first support our own farmers and the standards that we need to meet in this country.

Some concerns were also raised about border controls and the cost to farmers and producers of the new controls that are coming in. I will not go into great detail about that, as other noble Lords have talked about it and we had a fairly extensive debate on it in this House— I cannot remember whether it was last week or the week before; time flies when you are having fun. Any impact of the border controls, combined with changes in how farmers are expected to manage, transport and export their produce, needs to be considered as a whole. That seems to be a very sensible approach.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, also made the important point that any review must take into account what the potential outcomes of that review could be. Clearly, the last thing any of us would want to see would be any review resulting in the starting up of live exports. I say that with the assumption that the Minister is not going to stand up and say that he will accept the noble Baroness’s amendment. However, it is generally the case that new legislation does get reviewed at some point—so, again, it is important that, once this is on the statute, it does not get unpicked at any stage.

Although we very much support the points that the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, is making here and the points made by other noble Lords during this debate, as previously, we would not want to slow the passage of the Bill in any way. So, while it is important that we have discussions and debates around this, we would not want to hold the Bill up at all.

I just want to make one very final point. I was absolutely delighted to hear the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, talk about ungulates. Many years ago, in a previous life, when I was a proofreader, I proofread a book called The Biology and Management of Mountain Ungulates—and I never thought I would get the opportunity to say that in this House.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, I am not even going to try.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, and to other noble Baronesses who have spoken and continue to speak towards the efforts to ensure that all impacts of the Bill on farming have been fully considered.

I will start by making three main points. First, I reassure the noble Baroness that we have already considered the impacts of this policy on British farmers and businesses and we expect the impact to be minimal, as outlined in our impact assessment, published in July 2021. The estimated direct cost to businesses of ending live exports for slaughter and fattening is around £5,200,000 across the 10-year appraisal period, or around £500,000 per year. It is also highly likely that the impact will have further decreased since then, as there have been no recorded live exports for slaughter or fattening from Great Britain to continental Europe since this assessment was published.

Secondly, when we consulted, responses indicated that some businesses which can no longer export live animals for slaughter will instead sell their live animals domestically and export the carcass or final meat products instead. We do not anticipate any issue with domestic slaughterhouse capacity being able to absorb any animals that might otherwise have been exported. In 2020, we exported from Great Britain around 6,300 sheep to the EU for slaughter and about 38,000 for fattening. These slaughter exports accounted for around 0.02% of all livestock slaughtered in the UK in 2020 and so represented a very small proportion of the total number of animals processed in the UK every year. I hope this reassures the noble Baroness.

Thirdly, in 2020 we exported approximately 480,000 tonnes of beef, veal, lamb, mutton, pork, bacon and ham from the UK, worth an estimated £1.4 billion in real terms. Clearly, this trade is much more significant to the farming industry in Great Britain than the live export trade.

I also reassure noble Lords that there are not, and never have been, significant imports for slaughter or fattening into Great Britain, and there is no established import trade for this purpose that in any way constitutes a comparable trade to the previous live export trade. According to Animal and Plant Health Agency data on imports to Great Britain from the Republic of Ireland, since the beginning of 2021 around 1,800 pigs and 500 cattle have been imported for fattening and around 900 cattle imported for slaughter. The total number of livestock imports into Great Britain for fattening and slaughter from other EU countries is smaller still, in the tens of animals or less over the same period. In stark contrast, 44,500 sheep were exported for slaughter or fattening from Great Britain to the EU in 2020.

Further to this, the very low numbers of livestock imported into Great Britain all come from EU member states, primarily the Republic of Ireland. This means that animals are reared in conditions that are comparable to the animal welfare standards that apply in Great Britain, and we do not foresee any reason why this would change.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, raised a number of issues—I will cover one or two of those. The first is the issue of Northern Ireland being used as a loophole by transporters. The requirements when transporting livestock to Northern Ireland would make any attempt to export livestock in this way uneconomic. Livestock transported for slaughter from Great Britain to Northern Ireland must go directly to the slaughterhouse: it is an offence to move the animals anywhere else. On arrival at the slaughterhouse, the animals and accompanying health certificates must be presented to an officer of the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. Livestock exported for any other purpose must remain at the place of destination for a minimum of 30 days and be retagged to comply with animal identification requirements. The Bill will make it an offence for anyone to send, or attempt to send, livestock from Great Britain to anywhere outside the UK and Crown dependencies.

The noble Baroness also raised the issue of border control posts, particularly those going into Europe. The Government would like to see exports for breeding resume, but this is a commercial issue. We remain sympathetic to the concerns of the businesses involved and the department has been active in doing what it can to support a satisfactory outcome. Defra officials continue to track progress on this issue and meet regularly with the National Farmers’ Union, which represents the wider industry. It is disappointing that, despite all efforts, the companies that are seeking to identify an appropriate solution have not been successful in securing a border control post to serve their preferred routes. I did pick up on the noble Baroness’s point about Harwich to the Hook of Holland, and perhaps we can take that as a separate issue outside today’s business.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, raised the issue of trade deals and welfare standards around that. On low-welfare imports, the UK Government were elected on a manifesto commitment that, in all our trade negotiations, we will not compromise on our high animal welfare and food standards. We will stand firm in trade negotiations to make sure that any new trade deals live up to the values of farmers and consumers across the United Kingdom and will maintain our high standards as part of any future free trade agreements.

Products imported into the UK must continue to comply with our existing import requirements. It has always been the case that products produced to different environmental and animal welfare standards can be placed on the UK market if they comply with these requirements, and this includes products from the EU and other long-standing trading partners. A range of government departments, agencies and bodies continue to ensure that these standards are being met, including the Food Standards Agency, Food Standards Scotland, the Animal and Plant Health Agency, the Veterinary Medicines Directorate and the Health and Safety Executive.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I do not disagree at all with what my noble friend is saying, but the Government must see that we are harming our own producers in the same way that we did when we had the unilateral ban on sow stalls and tethers. Consumers need a label to let them know in this regard.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her point, and perhaps I can clear that up with her later on.

In conclusion, this Bill will put a permanent end to a trade which, at its height in the 1990s, affected over 2 million animals a year; more recently it has impacted much smaller numbers. I can safely say there will be a minimal impact on farming in Great Britain and I think we all agree it is better that we encourage exports on the hook, rather than on the hoof.

It is an important point, and one of which we should be proud, that this Bill will reinforce our farming industry’s position as a world leader on animal welfare, boosting the value of British meat and helping to grow the economy. Given that the impact of the Bill on farming in Great Britain is outlined clearly in our impact assessment, I continue respectfully to hold the view that it is not necessary to add this further requirement to it. I therefore ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

Sea Fisheries (International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2024

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Tuesday 7th May 2024 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Douglas-Miller]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Sea Fisheries (International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2024.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations were laid in draft before this House on 14 March 2024. This is a good news story: Atlantic bluefin tuna are present again in UK waters and are increasing in abundance after an absence of many years. In 2021, the International Union for Conservation of Nature changed its assessment of bluefin tuna from “endangered” to “least concern”, which reflects the improving state of the stock. There is significant demand for recreational fishing access to bluefin tuna, which will boost tourism in coastal communities and deliver social and economic benefits.

Following our exit from the EU, the UK joined the International Convention for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas, henceforth referred to as ICCAT, which is the international organisation that manages Atlantic bluefin tuna. This enabled the UK to secure bluefin tuna quota for the first time. In line with ICCAT rules, this instrument will enable UK fisheries administrations to open their own catch-and-release recreational bluefin tuna fisheries. It will permit authorised recreational fishing vessels to target bluefin tuna by rod and line only and on a catch-and-release basis, meaning that fish should be returned to the water unharmed. Without this legislation the UK would be able to run only commercial and scientific bluefin tuna fisheries, preventing us unlocking the social and economic benefits associated with the recreational fishing of this valuable species.

So far, UK fisheries administrations have taken a cautious and measured approach to managing bluefin tuna quota by running scientific catch-and-release tagging programmes, known as CHART, over the past three years. Under the English CHART programme, bluefin tuna were caught and released with an exceptionally low mortality rate of 0.7%. The programme provided valuable data on the social and economic benefits associated with recreational access to bluefin tuna. A trial commercial fishery for bluefin tuna ran in 2023 in UK waters.

This year, the UK has been allocated around 66 tonnes of bluefin tuna quota by ICCAT, which represents 0.16% of the total allowable catch shared between all ICCAT contracting parties. Comparatively, the European Union has been allocated 53%. In future years, the UK hopes to increase its quota allocation; decisions on how we intend to use it will ensure that bluefin tuna fisheries meet our international commitments, contribute to delivering the Fisheries Act 2020 objectives, and reflect stakeholder interests. This year, 16 tonnes will be used for recreational fisheries and 39 tonnes will be used for the trial commercial fishery, which is running for a second year. The remainder will be used for commercial by-catch and scientific tagging programmes. Although the tuna will be caught and released in the recreational fishery, quota is needed to cover any incidental mortalities.

The Marine Management Organisation is expecting to open a recreational fishery in English waters this summer. The Welsh Government are also considering opening a recreational fishery in Welsh waters this year. These fisheries will run alongside further CHART programmes elsewhere in the UK. ICCAT requires any recreational targeting of bluefin tuna to be authorised. The UK fisheries administrations currently do not have the appropriate powers to authorise recreational fishing for bluefin tuna. Therefore, the Government wish to proceed with the legislation being debated today to bring recreational bluefin tuna fishing in line with ICCAT requirements.

This statutory instrument has been created using powers under Section 36 of the Fisheries Act 2020 to add provisions as amendments to existing assimilated law, namely Regulation (EU) 2016/1627. This UK legislation enables each of the four UK fishery administrations to issue non-transferable, time-limited permits to UK recreational vessels to fish for bluefin tuna in their waters should they wish to do so, regardless of where in the UK the vessel is based. It gives fishery administrations the power to set permit eligibility requirements that support the delivery of Fisheries Act objectives; to set appropriate criteria for ranking applications in the event of oversubscription; and to refuse permits on the grounds of safety, conservation or appropriateness.

The SI also gives fishery administrations the power to amend or revoke permits. It explicitly prohibits both the unauthorised targeting of tuna on a recreational basis and the removal of bluefin tuna from the water anywhere in UK waters, whether on a vessel or from the shore. It amends the Sea Fishing (Enforcement) Regulations 2018 to confer enforcement powers on the Marine Management Organisation and the Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities. Finally, the SI creates new offences for the unpermitted recreational targeting of bluefin tuna and for breaching permit conditions, ensuring that we protect this unique species and its encouraging return to UK waters.

These amendments are distinct from the licensing requirements and powers under Section 14 of the Fisheries Act 2020, which apply only to commercial vessels. This legislation will support delivery of the sustainability and scientific evidence objectives of the Fisheries Act 2020.

With an annual allocation this year of 16 tonnes of quota, bluefin tuna recreational fisheries are expected to generate £25 million in charter fees and significant additional spend over the next 10 years in deprived rural and coastal communities. These benefits will increase if quota allocations increase. We are keen to improve our knowledge of bluefin tuna in UK waters, which is why this instrument stipulates that recreational fishers must report their catch within 24 hours of each trip.

The devolved Administrations are supportive of the amendments made by this UK instrument. If the instrument is not passed, there will not be enough time to open the bluefin tuna fishery for the full 2024 season, with the consequence of lost revenue for charter businesses and an increased risk of illegal fishing.

I hope I have reassured noble Lords on the purpose and aims of this instrument, which will deliver socioeconomic opportunities to coastal communities across the UK. For the reasons I have set out, I commend these regulations to the Committee. I thank noble Lords for their support and remain at their disposal for any questions that they may wish to ask.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that introduction. I have one or two questions to ask him, because I have been involved in some fishing discussions in the south-west, where I live.

I start by asking the Minister about this SI. We are talking about recreational fishing boats. Can the Minister explain in a bit more detail the difference between a recreational fishing boat and a commercial one, if there is a difference? Is the difference that you are required to throw the fish back on a recreational boat but, on a commercial boat, you can eat the product? It is unclear to me. I know that they all have to be caught by rod and line, but does it matter who catches them?

At the end of his useful introduction, the Minister mentioned an income of £25 million for the fishing industry, but, only a couple of months ago, a similar decision was made to ban pollock fishing completely. That will probably put a large number of small fishing boats whose owners live in small villages in Cornwall, where I live, out of business, and they will probably have to sell their boats.

The reason I raise this issue is that, in the debate on pollock fishing in the other place, on 11 March, there was a lot of criticism from all parts of the House about the lack of data. There was a quota of several thousand tonnes a year of pollock that could be caught, but suddenly, just like that, the whole thing was banned —no fishing at all—with maybe a small amount of compensation if the fisherman’s main income was from collecting pollock. There has been a series of bad rows in the south-west and other places because it is not easy for these small fishing boats to diversify.

In a media statement, the then Minister for fishing and fishermen—I do not know who it was but he has been quoted among the fishing sector in the south-west—said, “If you’re suddenly not allowed to fish for pollock, you can always fish for tuna”. As the Minister here will know, tuna are rather heavier than pollock and you need different equipment. Today, we have a draft regulation telling people that if they if they want to fish for tuna then they have to chuck it back—which I think is a good idea—but a couple of months ago a Minister was telling people that if they were not allowed to fish for pollock then they could go fishing for tuna.

People who are about to lose their livelihood—quite a few of them are having to sell their little fishing boats in places such as Mevagissey—being told that they can go and fish for something else, and that by the way they will get a small grant for one-quarter of the difference, is bad enough, but when people dug into that a bit more they found that there was no data about why the ban was suddenly introduced, without any warning to the fishermen concerned—it just suddenly came. If the stocks were gradually reducing then I could understand that fishermen might be told they could not fish for so many and their quota had to go down for the next year, but to be suddenly told that you cannot fish for them at all, even though that is your livelihood—and we might give you a bit of money for a cup of tea but nothing else—is ridiculous. It shows complete ignorance of the industry. I was talking to a fisherman in the Isles of Scilly at the weekend. I asked what he thought of it and he said, “Well, there’s more pollock around my coast than there are human beings in Cornwall. These people don’t know what they’re doing”.

I would be interested to know the basis on which people can continue to fish for tuna and either chuck it back or eat it, depending on which of these different commercial arrangements are in place. Will the Minister comment before the Government introduce any more sudden changes in regulation? This has a dramatic effect on small boat fishing around the coast, not just in Cornwall and Scilly but in many other places. How are they going to improve things in future? I look forward to his comments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his thorough introduction to this SI. He talked about bluefin tuna or, as they are known in the SI, BFT, which means I can think of them only as the “Big Friendly Tuna”. They were pushed to the brink of extinction because of overfishing, so it is really welcome that the fish have returned to UK waters over the past decade and that populations are recovering in other areas such as the Mediterranean, as noble Lords have referred to.

I want to look at just a few bits. Paragraph 7.10 of the Explanatory Memorandum outlines that

“Defra intends to open a BFT CRRF”—

I have not decided what else CRRF could be, but there are a lot of acronyms in the Explanatory Memorandum. The maximum scale of the CRRF is to do with the availability of the quota. We heard in the Minister’s introduction and in noble Lords’ comments about the implications of that quota in the long term, not just as it is set now.

I was also interested to see in paragraph 10.3 that there was a fairly thorough consultation between July and September 2023. Paragraph 10.3 outlines a number of ways in which the scheme has been revised following the consultation. One of the things I wanted to pick up on, and I will come back to, is the reasons why the introduction of permit charges was delayed.

One of the responses to this announcement was from the leader of the Blue Marine Foundation, Charles Clover—I am sure the Minister knows this. Charles Clover said he is anxious that

“we are just starting off a cycle of commercial fishing far too early in its recovery which we cannot control. We are creating a new commercial interest in fishing bluefin which will need close scrutiny. Realistically, the survival of the bluefin now will be about setting quotas strictly within scientific advice”.

Clearly, we all want this to work. Can the Minister say something regarding Charles Clover’s concerns? On the face of it, the quota that has been brought in by Defra looks absolutely fine, and we support the SI, but, having looked at the Blue Marine Foundation’s comments, I ask the Minister: how will the quota be kept under review? Will Defra be prepared to make significant changes if the data suggests that any changes are needed? How would that come into play?

On that point, I want to look at what my noble friend Lord Berkeley said about pollock. Again, this is about the accuracy of quotas, when this is reviewed, how it is implemented and the impacts on the fishing industry. It is often very small boats that rely on this for their living.

To come back to the postponement of the introduction of permits, the Explanatory Memorandum says that

“the introduction of charges for permits has been postponed, to allow time for further work to confirm the scope and scale of such charges, as well as how any charging income would be used”.

Questions were asked about the delay in charging for permits when this SI was debated in the other place. The Minister responded that permits would ensure that

“the whole industry will be conducted responsibly, with the best welfare in mind”,—[Official Report, Commons, Fourth Delegated Legislation Committee, 24/4/24; col. 8.]

which obviously we support, but it would be useful to have a bit more information as to the timescales for this, what is likely to happen and what it is likely to look like when it comes in. What does “further work” mean? What kind of work is being carried out? It would be useful to know. Having said that, we are supportive of this. It is good for the industry and for coastal communities, and it is great that we have tuna back.

I hope the Minister will forgive me, because I know this is not what the SI is about, but I want briefly to raise concerns about the salmon farming industry, following a story I read in the media this morning. Official figures from the Scottish Government suggest that farmed salmon mortality hit record levels last year, with over 17 million deaths. There has been increased incidence of mass mortality events in farms elsewhere in the world. We know that these mass die-offs are believed to include sea lice infestations and environmental stressors, such as poor oxygen levels in water, with overpopulation of pens exacerbating the problems.

I was concerned about Defra’s decision to allow Salmon Scotland’s application to change the protected name wording on the front packaging from “Scottish farmed salmon” to “Scottish salmon”, as I think that is pretty misleading. That change is also not supported by Animal Equality UK and WildFish, which say that, as well as being misleading, it breaches assimilated EU Regulation 1151/2012—the Minister may want to write that down—on quality schemes for agricultural products and foodstuffs. I am aware that this is outside the scope and subject of this SI, and I apologise to the Minister for being a little cheeky, but I know that he has a particular interest in and knowledge of this area, so I would be grateful if he could look into this.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their interest in this matter and in other fishery-related issues.

I start by commenting on the issues in Scotland, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. I am highly sympathetic to this issue because, in a previous life, I chaired the Atlantic Salmon Trust, which deals with wild salmon and interacts with the aquaculture industry on a daily, permanent basis. There are some serious challenges in this space. I have a personal view and then there is a Defra view. I should probably stick to the Defra view for the moment—unless your Lordships can coax the other one out of me later.

The level of mortality of farmed salmon, in my view and Defra’s, is completely unacceptable. As your Lordships know, salmon farming is an issue devolved to the Scottish Government. The only jurisdictional reach that Defra has into aquaculture is through its work on antimicrobial resistance and the use of antibiotics, which is UK-wide. It is no coincidence that salmon farming is one of the least successful industries at reducing its antibiotic use. It is an area of serious concern and those concerns are being raised. I accept the noble Baroness’s comments on the name change. I can see from noble Lords’ body language that those are collective comments and, as your Lordships’ can probably see, I am minded to share those views. I will take that back to the department to quiz officials further. It is a completely unacceptable state of affairs.

I turn my attention to some of the questions that were raised on bluefin tuna. The issue that sits behind many of them is the sustainability of this particular fishery. We have been in a bad place in the past, but there were no rules, regulations and oversight then. My personal assessment of the situation is that ICCAT has a very firm handle on the conservation status of Atlantic bluefin tuna.

As I said in opening, the issue for me personally is that we get 0.16% of the overall quota. My maths is not brilliant but, if we get 60 tonnes in round terms, and the percentage is then only 0.16%, there are many hundreds of thousands of tonnes being allocated elsewhere. This is an Atlantic fish; it is only in the Atlantic. It seems inconceivable that the UK’s involvement, in its recreational or commercial fishery, would in any way impact on the population, when we are getting 0.16% of the quota that has been allocated by an international organisation that has the welfare of the bluefin tuna at stake. That satisfies my personal position on this, and I hope it goes some way to satisfy others as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, raised the issue of the pollock fishery. In many respects that fishery, which is governed under ICES, the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, seems to be sitting almost 50 years behind the bluefin tuna. I do not know quite how we got ourselves into a position where a fish species has been designated as below a certain conservation status, and therefore we cannot take a quota from it, but we are governed by ICES and restricted by its quota. This has been much debated in the other House. I do not think there is anything I can usefully add to that, other than that it is in no one’s interests that our fishery stocks are depleted to the state that we are in today, because that causes all the hardship, aggravation and financial stress and strain that we are seeing down on the south-west coast.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful for that answer. We are where we are, but can the Minister provide any assurance that, in future, the monitoring of not just pollock and tuna but other fish that need to be monitored is done consistently and comprehensively? At the moment, I am told that anybody who is allowed to fish for pollock can get extra money from somebody in the Government if they put a tag on it or if it gets monitored. It seems to me that the monitoring should have been going on continuously for many years and the results published, so that people can form their own view as to what is likely to happen in future—and challenge the MMO and anybody else if they do not like it. It would be very helpful if the Minister could give me some comfort that it is going to get better.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

That is exactly it and precisely the place that we all want to be. Specifically on the bluefin tuna fishery, we have gone into this carefully. We have done three years of scientific study without even starting up a commercial or recreational fishery, so the lessons are being learned. I take the noble Lord’s point about having a consistent approach and will certainly take a closer look at that when I get back to the department.

We had some comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, on how the fishery is to be enforced. I know that she is a keen fisherman herself and an expert in catch and release. In England, the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities—IFCAs—and the Marine Management Organisation will be enforcing the new legislation. IFCAs enforce waters up to six nautical miles from the shore and the Marine Management Organisation enforces from six miles to the 200 nautical-mile limit. Fishing for bluefin tuna without a permit or in contravention of the legislative requirements and permit conditions will be a criminal offence. The MMO will have the power to vary, suspend and revoke permits, under the conditions set out in this new legislation.

Enforcement of the fishery will be a risk-based and intelligence-led process, with the primary objective of enforcing the prohibition of non-permitted activities. Clearly, we are dealing with small boats in a big sea with limited resources. It is not going to be 100%, but no system ever is. However, there is quite a lot of local intelligence in this space and I believe that the MMO and the IFCAs have the resources in place to manage the entire process.

I think that covers everything. If I have answered all the questions, I hope that the Committee shares my conviction that this instrument is required to enable the UK fisheries administrations to establish recreational bluefin tuna fisheries in their waters. These regulations will bring social and economic benefits to the fishing industry and coastal communities, and support the sustainable management—I stress “sustainable”—of bluefin tuna. I will be sure to check Hansard and endeavour to respond in writing if I have missed any of the specific details. With that, I commend the instrument to the Committee.

Motion agreed.

EU Imports and Exports: Food and Agricultural Products

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Thursday 2nd May 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, for securing this important debate, and all those who have spoken for their thoughtful and constructive comments. There have been a great number of questions and I have a very short period of time to address them, so I will push on and see how many I can get through. I will of course write to those whose detailed questions I do not manage to answer.

The second phase of the border target operating model was implemented on 30 April, reflecting a long period of intensive work across government. I am pleased to report to the House a smooth and successful implementation. I am also extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, for his continued support. All the necessary digital systems have been deployed and the documentary and physical checks have begun successfully at the points of entry across the country. Defra will, of course, continue to monitor the BTOM’s impact and effectiveness on a very regular basis.

Contrary to the point raised by the noble Lords, Lord Howarth and Lord Redesdale, and in support of the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Trees, I say that introducing these biosecurity controls on imports is very important. Now that we have moved away from the EU’s rigid biosecurity surveillance and reporting system, we are responsible for protecting our own biosecurity from threats such as African swine fever and Xylella. These threats would devastate UK industries and cause significant damage to the environment, public health and the wider economy. We remember the impact in 2001 of foot and mouth, which cost British business nearly £13 billion in 2022 prices and of course caused massive disruption to many industries, as well as emotional and financial distress to many of our farmers.

Biosecurity controls are also essential to protect our exports and international trading interests. Our trading partners want to be reassured that we maintain the highest biosecurity standards. The overall ambition of the border target operating model is to introduce robust risk-based controls that protect biosecurity while reducing administrative and cost burdens for importers.

I will take this opportunity to address some of the questions raised. The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked about the Government’s assessment of our readiness to implement these controls. The Government have worked with port and airport operators, traders, port health authorities and the Animal and Plant Health Agency to make sure that we have the right infrastructure, systems and resources in place. In recent months, this has culminated in an intensive period of operational testing and collaboration with several ports, port health authorities, APHA and traders. We have used these tests to identify and resolve any remaining operational issues.

We are confident that BCP infrastructure has sufficient capacity and capability to handle the volume of checks expected under border control operating models. This was raised by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Lincoln, and I hope that satisfies him. I should add that the port health authorities’ staffing is designed to be very much in line with demand. We are confident that our systems are robust, dynamic and effective, and we are confident that inspection authorities are appropriately staffed and trained. This is reflected in the successful first few days of implementation.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, spoke of the impact of border controls on domestic food producers, and I am confident that the border target operating model will strike the right balance between safeguarding biosecurity and reducing friction on trade. The National Farmers’ Union has welcomed the new regime and its protection of our biosecurity. These checks are also vital for maintaining access to export markets by assuring our trading partners of our high biosecurity standards.

I turn to some questions raised by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and again support the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Trees, on the comparative regulatory advantages enjoyed by EU businesses exporting to Great Britain. Although the focus of the border target operating model is on imports, I note that it substantially reduces the asymmetry in the regulatory burden between GB-EU and EU-GB trade. It introduces new controls on animal and plant products imported from the EU, ensuring that they meet our high biosecurity standards.

The noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, and others questioned the assessment made by the Government of the impact of these controls on business. We have been clear from the outset that, in developing this new model, we aim to achieve the lowest regulatory obligation for businesses, consistent with the need to protect biosecurity and to safeguard the UK’s reputation for high regulatory standards. I believe that this is what we have achieved. All costs and operational procedures will be kept under review and, if they appear either disproportionate or excessive in other ways, we can and will alter them.

The noble Lord, Lord Howarth, spoke on the impact that these controls will have on inflation. Indeed, it was a point raised by other noble Lords as well. For consumers, the implementation of the BTOM should have minimal impact on food price inflation. Initial analysis—I take the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, made about where that information comes from and whether it can be published; I will write to her on that—is based on peer-reviewed methodology and has indicated that the policies introduced under BTOM will lead to an approximate increase in consumer price inflation of less than 0.2 percentage points over a three-year period.

The noble Lord, Lord de Clifford, seemed to suggest that the Government are refusing to talk to the Dover Port Health Authority. I can assure him that nothing could be further from the truth. We have been engaged in dialogue with the Dover Port Health Authority for a number of months now. The current funding package that it enjoys was put in place to cover a range of tasks that are now moving to Sevington. We are looking to negotiate a new package with the Dover Port Health Authority to reflect the reduced number of checks that it has been doing over a wide range of issues. This does not mean that we will be reducing checks for African swine fever. To be clear, the authority that is responsible for stopping and checking for illegal imports is Border Force, not the port health authority.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, asked how the Government intended to enforce the attendance of goods called to Sevington for a BCP check. Consignments called to Sevington for inspection will have completed the necessary customs declarations and pre-notifications. These goods will not be legally cleared for sale or use within the UK until they have been attended to and cleared prior to BCP. Where the BCP has concerns due to non-attendance, the goods will be referred for inland controls by the local authority, enforceable through the data collected through those customs declarations and pre-notifications.

Another point raised by a number of noble Lords was around horticulture. The Government are most grateful to the HTA, which has provided extensive and constructive feedback during the development of this model. Indeed, I have held a number of meetings and round tables with the chairman, chief executive and quite a number of its members. Officials in Defra and the Cabinet Office have worked closely with the HTA and a number of its members on operational tests of systems and the BCPs of most significance to their sector. This has allowed government and BCP operators to refine systems and processes to ensure that the new regulatory system works smoothly for this sector.

This brings me on to another point that was raised by a number of noble Lords about the pragmatic approach that we are taking. When you are introducing an entirely new system—I am very aware; I have been in business and know how this works—it is good practice on day one to go quite slowly. That is entirely what we have attempted to achieve here. My clear instruction to all the port health authorities is that we do not want to go from nought to 100 miles an hour on day one. We have targets in terms of the quantity of products per risk category that we want to check. We can build up to that; we do not need to go from nothing to everything on day one. I hope that that pragmatic approach is very much a part of the successful start that we have seen to this process.

I am very conscious of the time, so I will pause there and again thank all those involved in today’s debate. It has been extremely helpful and valuable. If I have missed any points, I will ensure that I write to noble Lords.

Water Companies: Licence Conditions

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Wednesday 1st May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sikka]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what estimates have been made of the distributable reserves of each water company now that OFWAT has taken powers under the Environment Act 2021 to change their licence conditions, including whether they can pay dividends.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The best proxy for distributable reserves is retained profits. This is the profit and loss reserve on a company’s balance sheet. Company boards are responsible for determining how much of their profit and loss reserves is distributed. The Government have not carried out an exercise to calculate each company’s distributable reserves. Where a company in cash lock-up breaches its licence by paying a dividend, Ofwat will take enforcement action.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, as I have previously pointed out in this House, water company accounts are not only massaged but cooked and roasted with abusive accounting practices. Ofwat and the Government have said that under certain circumstances they will block the payment of dividends, which presupposes that they know what the legally defined distributable profits of each company are. The Minister has just said that the Government have not got a clue; therefore, there is no way of knowing whether any of those dividend payments is actually lawful. Can the Minister explain why the Government announce policies when they do not have the basic data to implement them?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The Government have a very clear idea about the information that they are reviewing because every single water company, like every other public company, has its accounts audited. That information is publicly available, and I refer the noble Lord to the public audited accounts of all those water companies.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I support everything said by my friend the noble Lord, Lord Sikka. I wonder what regular representation, if any, the Government make about the quality of the water provided to us via various water authorities. I do not know if the Minister is aware that there is an exponential rise of allergies and eczema in east London. The water quality there is poor; I have raised these issues privately and on previous occasions. Can he assure me and this House that the water quality is as important as the profits that the water companies are making?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I absolutely assure the noble Baroness and the House that that is the case. I was not aware of the issue that she outlined around the outbreak of eczema. I am not sure if that is related to the water, but I can certainly look into that matter for her. The Environment Agency spends a great deal of time on this, and it is one of the issues that we can be really proud of. We get an unbelievably good service provided in terms of clean water that goes into every household across this country for a very modest price.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

Why do the Government allow these water companies to retain profits when there is so much need for investment and given their poor performance and the way that they are polluting our rivers and seas?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Lord perhaps needs to refresh his memory on exactly what a private company is and how that works. When you make an investment into a public company, like a water company, you expect to get some return on that investment, and it is only right and proper that everybody does. We are talking about pension funds as well as individuals.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the continuing secrecy and uncertainty surrounding the future of Thames Water is unhelpful and damaging to the water sector and the whole UK economy? When does the Minister expect to fully update the House and provide some certainty on Project Timber, the Government’s contingency plan for Thames Water?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Earl knows that it would be improper of me to comment on the details about Thames Water. I assure him and the House that we are taking an extremely close and careful look at this. It is in all our interests that the financial resilience of our water sector, as well as the individual players within it, is maintained and enhanced to ensure the level of investment required to improve water and address the issues related to sewage.

[The Earl of Devon (CB)]

My Lords, given the increasing regulatory and compliance burdens on water companies due to the Environment Act and such other essential recent legislation, is it not simply becoming unprofitable to invest in the water industry, which surely will make nationalisation at some point inevitable?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I do not think that I agree with that assessment at all; it certainly is not this Government’s policy to nationalise the water industry or indeed any other industry. Environmental issues around water companies are certainly highlighted more greatly than they ever were in the past. The Government have put a huge effort into monitoring the level of sewage and other pollutants going into the water systems. That, in part, is leading to much greater awareness of issues that have probably been going on for a very long time, and we are committed to fixing those issues.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to come back to the Minister’s response on dividends, investments and payments. Earlier this month, the Financial Times revealed that the 16 water companies paid out a total of £78 billion in dividends in the three decades since privatisation to March 2023, building up £64 billion in borrowing over the same period. It is worth remembering that the utilities were debt free when they were privatised. Frankly, I find these figures incredible. Is the Minister justifying his response to my noble friend as to how much money is acceptable to be paid in dividends?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a lot of very detailed numbers in her question, but the principle of dividends for public companies is well established and every other public company produces dividends for its investors. Perhaps I might take away those thoughts and come back to her.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, may I assist the Minister? It is one thing a company paying a dividend if it makes a reasonable profit, but does he not agree that it is completely different if a company is borrowing heavily to pay a dividend? I ask him also to comment on this, because he has not done so yet: we are all for the leaders of these industries being properly rewarded, but they should not be given bonuses when their environmental duties fall short.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I entirely agree with my noble friend on that issue. Ofwat will also take forward a consultation to consider a ban on water bosses receiving bonuses when their company has committed a serious criminal breach. As part of that consultation, Ofwat will consider the criteria for a ban on bonuses. This would likely include successful prosecution for a category 1 or 2 pollution incident, such as causing significant pollution at a bathing site or conservation area.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, given the uncertainty of Thames Water’s finances, what are the prospects of it being able to go ahead with its scheme for water transfer from the Severn to the Thames to meet the needs of south-east England? Does that not put the capital requirement for that scheme very much in doubt?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The capital requirement will be considered at the next spending review, which is due this year, so we will hear more about that in due course.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, once again, your Lordships’ House is indebted to the forensic skills of my noble friend Lord Sikka. He is the one person in this House who needs no instruction about where to look for what is going on in businesses and in companies, and how important accounts are. With some assistance from him, I had a look at Thames Water’s accounts. Its accounts, directors’ reports and cash-flow statements say that it paid dividends to its parent company as follows: £37 million in 2022, £45 million in 2023, and another £37.5 million in September 2023. However, its own PR spin says that these are not dividends and that this is the way it is paying interest on its debt. That is not what the accounts are for, and the accounts are not right if that is correct. In December, a spokesperson for Ofwat said:

“Following notification that Thames Water has paid a dividend to shareholders, Ofwat is investigating whether this payment meets its licence requirements”.


The Minister is a knowledgeable man in this area, as he tells us, so he should be able to explain what is to be investigated. More importantly, does he know why Ofwat has not reported since December?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I also pay tribute to the accountancy skills of the noble Lord, Lord Sikka; they are very thorough. Indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Browne, has himself made an extremely good attempt at interpreting the accounts on that front. The issues around Thames Water and the dividend that it paid last year are subject to an investigation at the moment. Therefore, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on them.

Sewage Pollution: Lakes and Rivers

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Tuesday 30th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Quin]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what recent meetings they have had with environmental organisations to discuss measures to reduce sewage pollution in lakes and rivers.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Defra Ministers and officials consult extensively and routinely with a wide range of stakeholders, including environmental organisations, on this very important issue. For example, since March my officials have met with Surfers Against Sewage, the Royal National Lifeboat Institution and the Shellfish Association of Great Britain. We all agree that the current volume of sewage being discharged into our waters is unacceptable. Reducing sewage pollution in British lakes and rivers remains a top priority for the Government.

[Baroness Quin (Lab)]

My Lords, since the House last debated this subject, there have been reports that sewage discharges have doubled in many of our rivers over the last year and that England’s largest lake, Windermere, has a very bad pollution problem. There have even been warnings to the Oxford and Cambridge boat crews about the health risks of the water of the River Thames. Given recent reports and publications, does the Minister have urgent plans to meet the Rivers Trust, Friends of the Earth and Sustain to review their recent findings and discuss urgent measures and long-term strategy?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I assure the House that the Government are taking huge steps to improve the quality of our waterways. We have driven environmentally sensitive farming through the environmental land management schemes to reduce pollution from the agricultural sector, introduced a range of new targets and laws, including 100% monitoring of storm overflows, increased Environment Agency resources for inspections and introduced new legislation to curb dividends and bonuses. We have created a water restoration fund and fast-tracked £180 million of new funding to improve infrastructure this year. Perhaps most importantly, we have also created a long-term vision through our Plan for Water, which marks a step change in our approach and will see £60 billion of investment into infrastructure over the next 25 years. Notwithstanding that, as I said in opening, we have met an enormous number of individuals, environmental groups and interested parties, including the Rivers Trust, which the noble Baroness mentioned. I have met that organisation personally on a number of occasions, although not specifically on this issue.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that a sea change happened when the legal advice from the Environment Agency was made mandatory? Will the Government agree to accord the same legal status to advice from water companies on when it is unsafe for pipes to be connected to the existing sewage works of new build, including major developments of up to 300? When will the Government bring forward regulations to end the automatic right to connect and a mandatory requirement for SUDS, which will ensure that many sewage works work properly and the sewage does not enter lakes, rivers and the sea?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My noble friend raises a very good point; the water companies are consulted on these issues on a regular basis.

[The Duke of Wellington (CB)]

My Lords, I think the Minister just said that there is 100% monitoring of storm overflows, but my understanding is that, whereas the quality of water coming into the rivers from sewage plants is indeed monitored, outflows from the combined sewage overflows are not completely monitored and should be. That still needs further monitoring. Will the Minister meet with the Environment Agency and suggest that it accelerates the programme of installing monitoring of the combined sewage overflows?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Duke has a profound knowledge of this issue, so I will bow to that on this occasion. I commit to speaking to the Environment Agency on this issue and will take that point forward.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, there should be a general principle of transparency and openness where water companies are concerned. A tribunal recently overturned the ICO’s decision to support a water company’s attempt to withhold sewage flow data. It is unlikely that water companies will publish information unless forced to do so. Will the Minister change Ofwat’s strategic statement to make it clear that transparency—the routine publication of sewage data—is a condition of licensing?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I will certainly commit to taking the noble Baroness’s suggestion back to the department.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, have not the regulator and Ministers allowed the water companies to rip off the general public for the last 13 years? Can the Minister guarantee that no water company will be nationalised, and that they will wait for them to be bankrupt and then take them into public ownership?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to a system of independent economic regulation and have no plans to bring the water companies into public ownership. Since privatisation, the private water sector model has unlocked around £215 billion of investment and delivered a wide range of benefits, including a fivefold decrease in supply interruptions to customers and a reduction in leakages by one third.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that much of the pollution of many rivers emanates from the effluent from chicken farms? What specific targets do the Government have in mind to reduce this, and will they take legislative action to ensure that they are binding and produce the results necessary?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right: there is a significant issue with chicken manure in the Wye valley. There has recently been a proposal to put together a Wye river plan, and I will ensure that this goes ahead.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, is it beyond an advanced country such as this to have an ambition and a determination to have zero leakage of sewage into our rivers? Have the Government got such an ambition and a plan? If so, I would be interested to know.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

Yes. I point the noble Baroness to the plan for water, which lays out very clearly the 25-year strategy to reduce storm overflows to zero, and the investment plan that goes with that.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, for the last couple of years the Government have talked a lot about all the action they have been taking, but the situation seems to be getting worse. How is all the monitoring that is happening actually going to be used to drive forward change and reduction at last?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

Regarding one of the issues the noble Baroness raises, we now have a lot more information available to us to look at. When we did not have storm overflow discharge information, we were ignorant of the amount of sewage that was going into our rivers, lakes and other waterways. If you look at the results for the bathing water test, for example, you can see a significant improvement over the last 15 years because of all the measures we put in.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Does my noble friend not recognise that we will make no progress on this matter until the directors of the water companies are held personally responsible and they are fined, instead of the consumer having to pick up the cost of the fine?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right, and that is why the Government have taken a number of actions recently to introduce restrictions on dividends and bonuses. I will take his point about personal responsibility back to the department.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the advisory board of River Action, which is committed to cleaning up our rivers. The Minister said that it is a top priority for the Government, and I assure him that, on doorsteps and on the streets, it is also a top priority for people—for voters. The issue of public ownership keeps coming up. The first time a water company fails—for example, Thames Water—why not take it over, load the debt into the company so that it can gradually pay off its own debt and ensure that no dividends are paid out?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a very interesting prospect, which I will consider carefully and take back to the department.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the River Wye. The great news is that a citizen science army of people has been monitoring the whole of that catchment area. Do the Government encourage that model? If so, how will they encourage the Environment Agency to spread that great exercise to other catchments in the country?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The River Wye action plan, which the noble Lord refers to, is firmly supported by the Government. Any citizen science groups are very welcome to interact with the Environment Agency at any time.

Chemicals Strategy

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Tuesday 30th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock]

To ask His Majesty’s Government when they intend to publish the chemicals strategy to which they committed in their 25-year environment plan of January 2018.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, protecting human health and the environment from the risks posed by chemicals is a priority of the Government. The Government will meet their commitments on chemicals set out in the Environmental Improvement Plan 2023. The short delay in publishing the chemicals strategy is due to the new Secretary of State being more ambitious with its scope. We continue to engage regularly with industry, we have a draft strategy just here, right behind me—I do not want to do a spoiler alert—and we aim to publish it very shortly.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, it is now over six years since the chemicals strategy was first promised, to set out the UK’s approach post Brexit to ensure that chemicals are safely used and managed, with the promise of a world-class system. However, this month, Hazards magazine published data on workplace exposure limits for chemicals, which found that not a single new protective workplace exposure limit has been introduced into Britain since the UK left the EU. Worryingly, in 10 instances, the British standard was weaker than the new EU occupational exposure limit. Can the Minister confirm that when the strategy is finally published, it will urgently address this in order to reassure our British workers?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

This is a complex area. I entirely agree with the noble Baroness’s thoughts and will take them back to the department to see whether we can get that included if it is not already there.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister characterised the delay with the strategy as a short delay. Let us talk about another delay—the delay in publishing the 2023-24 UK REACH work programme. The Minister is relatively new and will not be aware of the saga of his department’s regulating and authorising the use of chemicals. The Minister sitting beside him, the noble Lord, Lord Benyon, has suffered it rather more. That annual work programme was published 10 months late. This is a vital document for the chemical industries to work out what they need to do to meet safety and regulatory concerns. Will the Minister promise that the 2024-25 report, which is due in the summer, will be published on time?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

Again, the noble Lord raises a very good point. This is serious stuff which needs to be adhered to in great detail, so I will take his comments back and ensure that we strive much harder this year to get that report out on time.

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, antimicrobial resistance is a major global health problem, including in the UK. What are His Majesty’s Government doing regarding surveillance for antibiotics and their residues in aqueous environments and to reduce the contamination of those aqueous environments with antibiotics and residues, which can spread and facilitate the development of antibiotic resistance in humans and animals?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

Antimicrobial resistance has been raised a number of times in the House. I have had several meetings with the noble Lord and his colleagues, talking about the UK’s success story in this area. Antibiotic use has been reduced by more than 50% over the last five years. However, there is more progress to be made and the noble Lord raises a series of very valuable points, which I will write to him on.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that if we do not get some of these things out pretty quickly and the European Union goes on improving its situation, many people will ask whether there was any point in taking back control in the first place?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

That is certainly an interesting perspective but not one that I would agree with, I am afraid. Now that we have left the UK, we will follow the best—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I think that your Lordships spotted my mistake. We will follow the best scientific advice and adopt the most appropriate approaches for the UK.

[Baroness O’Grady of Upper Holloway (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that firefighters have a cancer risk that is conservatively estimated to be two to three times higher than that of the general population and that one key factor in that higher risk is the presence of “forever chemicals” in firefighter foams and PPE? Can the Minister confirm that consulting with the FBU on issues such as regular health checks, and a strategy to mitigate and, ideally, prevent that risk, is in that draft updated strategy that he has next to him? Does he agree that dithering and delays in this strategy cost lives?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Baroness is quite right. Forever chemicals are a serious concern. They are linked to a number of different firefighting products—the foam and chemicals that come out of the extinguishers present a particularly serious issue, and not only to those who are using them, for that product gets inextricably linked to the environment around it. A number of issues which will come through in the strategy are in place to address that.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, how long do the Government plan to keep granting emergency exemptions from the ban on neonicotinoid pesticides? When are they planning to ban these dangerous substances permanently?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Earl knows, restrictions preventing the general use of three neonics in agriculture have been in place for several years. The Government continue to support these restrictions and have no intention of reversing them. A neonic seed treatment, Cruiser SB, is allowed to be used on sugar beet in England only if yellows virus is predicted to pose a threat to that year’s crop. This decision is not taken lightly and is based on a robust assessment of the environmental and economic risks and benefits.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in the last four years, the EU has added 31 substances to its list of substances of very high concern and has banned eight substances on that list outright. The UK is reported to be considering adding four to its equivalent list of substances of very high concern, by 2025 at the earliest. Analysts have suggested that this is because of either the Government’s general reluctance to regulate or the lack of Civil Service capacity. Will the Minister change either of those two factors?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I believe there might be choices other than the two that the noble Baroness highlights. One is that not all those substances are necessarily being, or will be, used in the UK; therefore, banning them seems in no way appropriate. However, I take the noble Baroness’s point and will look into it further.

[Baroness Redfern (Con)]

My Lords, since leaving the EU, we have the freedom to phase out the most harmful and persistent pollutants. Are we on target to eliminate the use of polychlorinated biphenyls next year?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. It might be best if I write to her with the details.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I always get the impression that chemicals regulation is at the bottom of Defra’s in-tray. Its performance since Brexit has been atrocious. I also get the impression that the Government’s strategy now is to lighten the burden on industry by reducing the amount of information that is put on UK REACH, but that has a lot of other effects. Can we not get to a point where we save real money for the UK chemical industry, which exports into the EU, by finding a pragmatic way—I mean pragmatic—to align with EU REACH, so that the industry can really perform, export and save a huge amount of money; in fact, billions of pounds?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Lord raises a bigger point, and this is exactly what the chemicals strategy aims to achieve. I hope that when it is published, and it will be shortly, the noble Lord will be satisfied.

Fur: Import and Sale

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Monday 22nd April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they are taking steps to ban the import and sale of fur.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Douglas-Miller) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as set out in the register. Fur farming is banned in the UK, and there are already import restrictions, which means that some skin and fur products may not be legally imported. In Our Action Plan for Animal Welfare, Defra committed to explore further potential action in relation to the import of fur from abroad, but we have continued to build our evidence base, including commissioning a report from our Animal Welfare Committee.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

The action plan to which the Minister refers was produced in June 2021, nearly three years ago. Knowing that we are a nation of animal lovers and that the number of animals killed for fur is estimated worldwide at 130 million, most of them kept in appalling conditions and suffering mental and physical distress, why on earth cannot the Government bring a popular Bill, for a change, to this House, so that it can vote for something happily—instead of the Rwanda Bill, for example?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, there is a good news story on this, because the volume of fur that is imported and exported has fallen by 50% in the past five years. In the action plan for animal welfare, Defra committed to explore potential action in relation to the import of fur from abroad. The call for evidence that Defra published in 2021 was a key step in delivering that commitment. A summary of the replies received should be published in due course; in the meantime, we are continuing to build our evidence base on the fur sector, which will be used to inform any future action on the fur trade. We have also commissioned a report from our expert Animal Welfare Committee, which I mentioned earlier, on what constitutes responsible sourcing in the fur industry. This report will support our understanding of the fur industry and help to inform our next steps.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the import of fur is unnecessary. The killing of Canadian bears for their pelts is still used to make bearskin headgear for the Grenadier Guards at Buckingham Palace. These come at a minimum cost of £650 each. The MoD orders between 50 and 100 bearskins each year. In 2020, the MoD stated that the quality of alternative material did not match natural fur. Surely, the Minister would agree that it is time for this unnecessary practice to be discontinued without delay.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, the wearing of bearskins by the Guards division is a matter for the Ministry of Defence. We are continuing to build our evidence base on the fur sector, which will be used to inform the future of the fur trade, and we will continue to share this evidence with other government departments, including the Ministry of Defence.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, what has happened to joined-up government? Is not this a matter for environmental and welfare considerations, and are they and the Ministry of Defence to be completely separated? I would suggest not. On the wider question, I am delighted by the progress that is being made, but could my noble friend speed it up a bit? I want to be alive when something really happens.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My noble friend is in very robust form, and I can see will be for many years ahead. I commit to providing a response to the consultation and the wider other brief as soon as I can.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, surely the Minister would agree that, in light of the new legislation that is coming in on the banning of the import of shark-fins and the progress of the Government-backed Private Member’s Bill on banning cruel puppy imports, the trade measures, such as a total ban on the import of fur and foie gras, which also safeguard animal welfare standards, should have equal priority. That is clearly not the case at the moment.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The Government made it clear in their manifesto commitment that in all our trade negotiations we will not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards. The UK is rightly proud of the animal welfare standards that underpin our high-quality produce. Imports into the UK must comply with our existing import requirements, such as meeting the United Kingdom’s slaughter standards.

[Baroness Redfern (Con)]

My Lords, what assessment has my noble friend the Minister made of the UK’s role in the global fur trade and of the volume of the import and export trade in animal fur and fur products over the past five years?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. Between 2017 and 2019, the UK imported around £61 million-worth of fur or fur-based products and we exported around £35 million of fur and fur-based goods. The majority of these were for apparel and clothing. In the period since then—the latest report was in 2023—the volume and the numbers have exactly halved.

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

My Lords, the RSPCA has stated that one-quarter of children aged 10 to 18 have witnessed animal abuse videos online. What action are the Government taking to tackle the increase in this content? What education are we providing to children on the importance of animal welfare?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. I was not aware of those statistics from the RSPCA, but they sound very concerning and it is a matter that the Government will be taking very seriously. As for the content, I will refer my noble friend to the Home Office, because it sounds highly inappropriate for children to be watching that. I will take the issue of education back to my department.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, last week in the Grand Committee, the noble Lord and I were agreeing about the importance of biosecurity and the threat presented to human and animal health—indeed, One Health. During Covid 19, we saw huge numbers slaughtered on mink farms because of the risk of transmission. Does the Minister agree that the fur farms that keep animals in such dreadful conditions as my noble friend referred to present a threat to the security of all of us, in terms of the transmission of zoonoses? If we were to ban the imports, we would actually be making the world safer for all of us by helping to discourage those farms from continuing and presenting the biosecurity threat that they do.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a very good point. We have been in discussions with our colleagues in Europe about these issues over the period. I can assure the House that there is no current risk, or the risk is assessed as extremely low, in terms of any transfer of diseases across from Europe. I know that where they do get outbreaks, they go to a policy of cull straightaway.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, a year ago the Government staged a U-turn on the promise to ban fur imports. We do not know the reason for that, but we do know that, as we have heard mentioned, in April 2021 there was a call for evidence and the Government received 30,000 replies. Since then, we have heard nothing, so will the Minister say when that evidence, the 30,000 responses to the call for evidence, will be released?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right about the numbers there. As I said earlier, I do not have an exact date for that response, but I am pressing for it to come out as soon as possible.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, what are the arguments for not banning fur products coming into the country? It does not seem to me that there is any important reason why we should not ban them. I think the vast majority of the public would support that move. What arguments are the Government putting forward for not banning them?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I am not in a position to go into that level of detail right now, so I will write to him.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Can my noble friend the Minister tell us whether his department has done any analysis of the source of fur from animals? What I mean by that is when animals are killed for fur, what percentage are killed specifically for fur; what percentage are killed for something else, such as meat, and the fur is a by-product; and what percentage are killed to control an animal population?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I am not aware of any analysis on that, but I will look into it and take it back to the department.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I asked this specific Question three years ago. I have not had an answer in those three years and I do not like the Answer today. Is it any wonder that I get so annoyed with this Government? Please, bring us back a proper answer on this.

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

I am distressed that we are causing the noble Baroness so much discomfort—that is certainly not the intention of the Government nor, indeed, my department at Defra. As I stated, I do take a personal interest in this; I have attended a number of meetings on it over the last month or so and I am endeavouring to get a response shortly, which I hope will satisfy the noble Baroness.

Official Controls (Fees and Charges) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Lord Douglas-Miller Excerpts

Monday 22nd April 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Douglas-Miller]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 26 February and 4 March be approved.

Relevant document: 18th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the first two instruments). Considered in Grand Committee on 18 April.

Motions agreed.