Housing: Short-Term Lets

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 19th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In so doing, I should mention my interests as set out in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, individual leases and tenancy agreements are matters for landlords and tenants. Where permission under the contract is required to sublet but is not obtained, landlords have legal routes to enforce the contract. Yesterday I met again representatives of the Short Term Accommodation Association and strongly encouraged them to continue their progress on driving up standards and promoting industry best practice. I continue to encourage my noble friend to meet the STAA, and I am pleased to hear that it has been in contact with her to discuss her concerns.

I am sure the whole House will want to join me in wishing my noble friend a happy birthday earlier this week, and hope she will enjoy many more.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Recently he told the House about a scheme introduced by Westminster City Council which is going quite well. Can he give us an update on that situation and tell us whether any borough can now apply for the right to introduce a similar scheme? If not, when will they be able to do so?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend is correct to say that considerable progress has been made between the Short Term Accommodation Association and Westminster City Council on sharing information. There is a legal issue involving the Data Protection Act, which lawyers are working through, but, as I say, progress has been made. The Short Term Accommodation Association has also issued to residents in Westminster a “considerate nightly letting charter” to describe best practice, a document many noble Lords may have seen. The Short Term Accommodation Association wants to talk to other London boroughs. I think it has been in touch with the borough of Kensington and Chelsea, which I know is my noble friend’s borough, and yesterday its representatives were due to meet with the London Borough of Tower Hamlets as well to discuss these issues.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, on holiday lets, does the Minister accept that under the system being used by most local authorities there is the potential for extensive fraud, with the bill being picked up by the ordinary taxpayer? Will the Government look into this and take action to stop the process currently being used?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am due to meet the noble Lord to discuss some of his concerns and I look forward to that. I am not sure, but I think he is probably referring to tax treatment. We are certainly looking at tax issues in this area and related to second homes more widely. My honourable friend Rishi Sunak, the Minister in the other place, is currently looking at this. Again, I look forward to discussing some of the noble Lord’s individual concerns.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House when the Rough Sleeping and Homelessness Reduction Taskforce last met? Further, will he ask it to consider the impact of Airbnb on homelessness, given that it has been estimated by Inside Airbnb that in London alone, nearly a quarter of secure tenancies that could be available are now affected by Airbnb?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I will have to write to the noble Baroness on the precise date of the last meeting of the Rough Sleeping Advisory Panel. I know that it is active in looking at these issues, but I will give the noble Baroness an update on the position and place a copy of that letter in the Library.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, does not this problem require a rather different approach? Should the planning system not be given the powers and necessary funding to ensure that the abuses which have so often been raised by the indefatigable noble Baroness and others in this Chamber can be dealt with?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, on planning, the position at the moment throughout the country, except in London, is that it is open to householders to provide short-term accommodation in their homes, so there is no particular planning issue on that point. As regards London, as I have said previously, there is an enforcement power that lies with London boroughs which has been used, probably on many occasions, to prevent issues coming to court. As the noble Lord will appreciate, there is also in leases in appropriate cases, as exemplified by cases such as Nemcova, the opportunity for landlords to enforce the provisions. If there is a wider issue in this regard, I would be very happy to engage with the noble Lord, but I am not convinced that there is.

[Lord Bird (CB)]

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that under the European Commission, Airbnb is in contradiction of consumer rights? Is he prepared to tell us what the Government’s stand on that is?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for what he does in this area and more widely on homelessness and housing issues. I am not quite sure what he is getting at when he says that the European Commission has drawn attention to Airbnb being in breach of a particular provision. If it is, I am sure it will face the full rigour of European law in so far as it would apply. I am convinced that Airbnb is acting totally within our laws, as are other short-term accommodation providers. We are trying to ensure that they can share information; as I say, that is an issue relating to the Data Protection Act. If they are unable to do that and if the lawyers cannot crack the problem, we would have to look at the necessity of amending the law. From what I hear, I believe we will not need to do that.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the remit of the Law Commission is to ensure that the law is fair. It has just done some excellent work on leasehold reform. Is there not a remit for it here? Could it not intervene in some way to examine the extent to which planning law is working?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I absolutely agree that the Law Commission does excellent work, as the noble Lord informed us. Being independent, it comes up with its own programme and the Government react accordingly. If the Law Commission feels that there is a job to be done here, we will await its work in this area.

Rating (Property in Common Occupation) and Council Tax (Empty Dwellings) Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 18th July 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

Clause 2, page 2, line 33, leave out from beginning to “effect” in line 36 and insert—
“(1) Section 11B of LGFA 1992 (higher amount for long-term empty dwellings: England) is amended as follows.(1A) In subsection (1)(b)(maximum percentage by which council tax may be increased)—(a) after “that day” insert “(“the relevant day”)”, and(b) for “50” substitute “the relevant maximum”.(1B) After subsection (1) insert—“(1A) For the financial year beginning on 1 April 2019 the “relevant maximum” is 100.(1B) For the financial year beginning on 1 April 2020 the “relevant maximum” is—(a) in respect of any dwelling where the period mentioned in subsection (8) ending on the relevant day is less than 5 years, 100;(b) in respect of any dwelling where the period mentioned in subsection (8) ending on the relevant day is at least 5 years, 200.(1C) For financial years beginning on or after 1 April 2021 the “relevant maximum” is—(a) in respect of any dwelling where the period mentioned in subsection (8) ending on the relevant day is less than 5 years, 100;(b) in respect of any dwelling where the period mentioned in subsection (8) ending on the relevant day is at least 5 years but less than 10 years, 200;(c) in respect of any dwelling where the period mentioned in subsection (8) ending on the relevant day is at least 10 years, 300.”(2) The amendments made by subsections (1) to (1B) have”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, this amendment, which allows for increases to the council tax empty homes premium cap according to how long a property has been empty, follows amendments with the same effect moved in Committee and on Report. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy, for bringing forward this so-called escalator amendment.

As noble Lords will undoubtedly be aware by now, this amendment will allow local authorities to charge premiums of up to 200% on homes empty for at least five years and less than 10 years, and to charge premiums of up to 300% on homes empty for at least 10 years. It will not change the provisions for homes empty for at least two years and less than five years. The maximum rate for such homes will remain at 100%, as proposed by the original Bill. Neither does the amendment fetter the discretion of local authorities, which will retain the right to decide on the precise level of premium charged, taking into account local circumstances, guidance and the maximum thresholds set by government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to my relevant interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I do not intend to detain the House for very long as there is widespread support for the amendment. I am very happy to support the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth, which, as we have heard, came out of a proposal from the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley. The proposal introduced the concept of having an increasing scale of how much council tax can by charged on an empty property. It was a very good, sensible idea. This government amendment looks at the practicalities of delivering it and has my full support.

My noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours raised the issue of the single person’s discount, and I hope that the noble Lord will address that in his response to the debate. The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, raised the issue of the blight of empty properties. I hope the noble Lord can confirm that that will be addressed in the guidance that comes on the back of this Bill. As I said, I am very happy to support the amendment, and I thank the noble Lord and the Government for listening to the concerns that have been raised.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in the debate on this amendment. If I may, I will deal with the contributions in the order in which they were made, and turn first to the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours. I understand where he is coming from on this, but the essential point, as was just made by my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern, is that the premium is payable on the value of the property and not on the circumstances of the person or persons who happen to be there at the time. I can provide him with the precise provision that makes this absolutely clear.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

We are talking here about an incidence of empty properties which may well increase in times of a depression in property prices. In parts of the country now, property prices are collapsing. The danger is that people will go into negative equity in the event that they are driven into selling because they are faced with what might appear to be extremely high increases in their council tax where they have been living as a single person in a property. I understand what the noble Lord said about the rateable value but I wonder whether it might be possible to detach from that formula and move to the actual sum payable, which is what really affects the council tax payer more than anything else.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I understand the point that the noble Lord is making but, if he will forgive me for saying so, it is a somewhat different point. I will come on to the hardship issues and the guidance, because hardship could attach to a couple or to a family as much as to a single person. The premium is payable in relation to the rateable value of the property and not the circumstances of the person who was last there. For example, it could be that a single person dies and then a family inherits the property, and so it would be complicated if it were otherwise. It also applies the council tax in the relevant year, and I fully concede that it is more likely to go up than go down. However, it is conceivable that it could go down and, if that happens, that is just the way it is, if the noble Lord will forgive me for saying so.

As I think I said in relation to the point raised by the noble Earl, the guidance we issue will be subject to full consultation and will take care of hardship cases. Hardship is a circumstance that I am very keen we address in the guidance, which will be open to full public consultation for anyone who wants to participate. Ultimately—

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords—

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

Forgive me, but I will just finish this point and then give way briefly to the noble Lord. Ultimately, this is a matter for the discretion of the local authority. We have been very keen to ensure that that is the case, as the local authority will know of the hardship more than anybody else in the local area.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

On exactly that point, according to the statistics that the noble Lord gave the House when we last considered the matter, 90% of local authorities are now choosing this option. It may well be that local authorities feel under pressure, irrespective of the hardship criteria that the Minister may lay down in the guidelines. That is why I want something a little firmer. They are taking the money because it is available, and 90% is the noble Lord’s own figure.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

If the noble Lord looks at what I said, I also said that they are exercising their discretion, and there is evidence of that, too. This is not a revenue-raising measure, as is borne out by the statistics. It is very much to deal with the specific case of blight on the local landscape and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said, freeing up homes. That is what is behind this. There is not a great incidence of cases, as the figures will bear out, but it makes a real difference in communities up and down the country.

As the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, said, this is something best left to the local authority. I am grateful for having my powers exaggerated but I cannot enumerate in a list what they may be. They are things for the local authority to look at. We will approach the guidance in such a way that we can give clear indications of the sort of factors that local authorities will want to bear in mind. Once again, it is important that we give the local authorities that discretion and trust them in the exercise of that locally. I stress that this will be subject to full consultation.

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, who first came up with this escalator amendment and for the work we have done on this together and, indeed, across parties, with the Labour Party as well. We have come to a very happy conclusion on this. As I say, the review of the guidance is the next stage in this process, and I expect us all to engage in that together as well. I am very grateful for the contribution of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern on compulsory purchase. There are compulsory purchase powers in relation to planning blight. They might not cover every conceivable instance that the noble Earl was thinking of, but that certainly would be part of the solution to that quandary. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, as always, for being supportive and constructive in contributions as we have developed this escalator amendment. It has been a very useful exercise and we have, as is appreciated in government, come up with something that has improved the Bill before us, so I am very grateful for that. With that, I beg to move this amendment.

Amendment agreed.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That the Bill do now pass.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, in moving this Motion, I express my thanks to noble Lords for their helpful insight and support throughout proceedings. I especially thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy. I am grateful to the noble Earl and other noble Lords who have participated in our discussions. For example, the noble Lords, Lord Campbell-Savours, Lord Stunell and Lord Best, and my noble friend Lord Deben, who is not in his place at present, have contributed as this has gone forward.

I also thank the Local Government Association for its engagement with my officials during the passage of the Bill—indeed, even before it was introduced in the other place. The conversations were constructive, and we will continue these as the Bill takes effect. Additional thanks are due to the Federation of Small Businesses, the Rating Surveyors Association, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and the Institute of Revenues, Rating and Valuation. Their expertise has been invaluable, and I am grateful for their assistance in developing the solution to the staircase tax, which has enjoyed wide support across both Houses.

I would also like to thank officials and the Bill team who have contributed to the Bill: Joshua Hardie, Gareth Adams, Shaun Morroll, Nick Cooper, John Hutchinson, Peter Bates, Thomas Adams, Antony Henderson and Hannah Ram—my cheerful, charming and efficient private secretary; that has earned me some Brownie points—who has worked incredibly hard on this Bill.

In summary, the Bill is much improved and has enjoyed broad support across the House. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, I join the Minister in thanking everyone in the House for their contributions to the Bill. It is a small, three-clause Bill, but an important Bill, which, as we know, deals with the staircase tax among other things. I also thank the department officials for their work, other colleagues around the House and all the organisations that the Minister listed, including the Local Government Association. Though small, the Bill is useful and will make a difference. I also thank the Minister, as always, for his management of the House.

Housing: Rent

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government for how many homes for rent on social rents as opposed to affordable rents they provided funding in the years 2016-17 and 2017-18.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, 5,900 homes for social rent and 24,390 homes for affordable rent were provided in 2016-17. Data on 2017-18 delivery is not yet available. We introduced affordable rent to maximise government investment in affordable housing and have delivered over 378,000 affordable homes since 2010. We recognise the need for a wider range of homes to meet the housing needs of all parts of the community, which is why, two weeks ago, we announced new funding for social rent. Some £1.67 billion has been made available to deliver 23,000 affordable homes outside London, 12,500 of which will be at social rent.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my relevant interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. How does the noble Lord think that his department will provide the strong and stable leadership needed to deliver the social and affordable homes to rent and homes to own that are so desperately needed when the merry-go-round that is his department has seen four Housing Ministers in 14 months?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be well aware of the changes of personnel in the shadow Government, so I do not think that that is a wise furrow for him to plough. The figures for 2016-17—the last year for which records are available—show that 217,350 new homes were delivered, and those are the best figures for 30 years in all but one year.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my interests as listed in the register. I simply ask the Minister this: are the Government still committed to the one-for-one replacement of council houses sold?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Lord is absolutely right to draw attention to that commitment. It is still a commitment and announcements will be made shortly about the way forward in relation to council housing. Although there is clearly more to do, I remind him that our record compares very favourably with those of Governments before 2010—but, yes, we are still very much committed to that policy.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, as many local authorities around the country are socialist or Labour controlled, would it not be more helpful if the Opposition were to actively promote the idea of local authorities coming forward enthusiastically with bids now that money is available?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, that would certainly be helpful, and I am sure that the noble Lord opposite has heard that plea. We have announced £1 billion in the housing revenue account and the borrowing cap for bids is being lifted. The account is now open, and bids can be made until, I think, 7 September—certainly until the first week of September.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, the National Housing Federation and its counterparts in the devolved nations have urged the Government to halt the rollout of universal credit after a study found that tenants in receipt of that benefit are in £24 million-worth of rent arrears and that 73% of tenants on universal credit are in debt. Does the Minister agree that these tenants are doubly hit by the pervasive impact of universal credit and the fact that many of them have to pay unaffordable “affordable” rents rather than social rents?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I will make sure that the noble Baroness gets a full response on universal credit. With regard to affordable and social rents, she will have heard what I said about social rents, and we absolutely intend to do more on that. Since the Spring Statement, we have announced fresh money for this, both for London and for outside London. I have also referred to the borrowing cap being raised and to the fact that the account is open for bids until the first week of September.

High Street Retailers

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are determined to see our Great British high streets thriving now and in the future. That is why my department announced that it will launch a call for evidence over the summer looking at the future of the high street. We will establish an expert panel of leaders to draw on their experience and expertise to diagnose the issues currently affecting the health of our high streets and advise on the best approach for their revival.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his response.

“An immediate overhaul of the business rates system … needed to salvage the high street”—


those are not my words but those of the expert retailer Bill Grimsey in his report today. Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, I welcome Bill Grimsey’s review, which contains many recommendations which the Government will want to study in detail. I do not agree that there is a single silver bullet for the revival of the high street—there are many factors, not least changes in habits as to how people shop and so on—but I accept that there is a need to look at this general area. Indeed, it was in the Conservative Party manifesto at the last election that we committed to looking at this area. It is being driven forward on an international basis at the moment because much of this, in relation to online trading, is an international matter.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

Will the Minister confirm that one problem is that high street retailers are having to compete with firms on the internet that do not pay their share of taxes, such as Amazon? Should we not have a level playing field to save our shopping centres?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is following up on a point that has been made. As I said, there is provision in our manifesto that we will review this area, and the Treasury is looking at this area on an international basis. Indeed, we are leading the charge because, as the noble Lord will be aware, a lot of that trading is done internationally and we need to ensure that there is the level playing field of which he spoke.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not true that many commercial landlords are pushing up rents, particularly of shops, because they are taking advantage of the business rate relief scheme, which exempts businesses with a rateable value of under £12,000 a year from paying business rates? They are simply taking away what the public sector would otherwise gain.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I would appeal to the noble Lord that, if he has evidence of that, I would be happy to look at it. He is right that we introduced business rate relief on a more pervasive basis after the revaluation so that most small businesses are not paying business rates at all, but my department would be interested to see the evidence to which the noble Lord alluded, if he has it.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, The Grimsey Review referenced by my noble friend points to a number of non-retail options for the future of town centres. A Centre for Cities report talked about converting shops to accommodation. Can the Minister assure us that the review over the summer will continue to focus on retail shops being available because, for communities to function, they need access to proper retail opportunities and shops? Will the review continue to work on that area, not just on replacing shops with other things?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I can confirm to the noble Lord that we intend to do both of those things. We need thriving retail opportunities in the high street, but at the same time we need to recognise that sometimes, particularly in a time of housing need, it is appropriate that we seek opportunities for housing. Some town centres have made successful attempts to revive on the basis of coming together. I think of York in particular, with the Bishy Road. There are many circumstances in which, quite independently of government assistance, which is available in many cases, town centres are thriving, but they are the exception and we need to do more.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not true that there will be a change on the high street, so we have to deal with the reality and we should start planning for it now? Many high streets will be decimated and will not be what we have known in the past. That means that there will have to be investment. Given that we have Brexit coming and we will have freedom on VAT, are the Government, as part of their review, looking to see how they can use changes in VAT rates to ensure that we get the appropriate payments from new traders online?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right about the changing nature of the high street. There is no way, as somebody said to me, that we can stop evolution. These are changes that we have to embrace, but there are many things we can do such as, as the noble Lord hinted, ensuring there is a level playing field. VAT rates are not central to this; the important issue is international action in relation to online activities. The Treasury is seeking here to lead the charge with our partners, both in the EU and more widely.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that staying part of the EU gives us a much better chance of grappling with the problems of taxing big multinational companies, because the EU has the collective clout to do that, which we cannot necessarily do on our own?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I do not think that is the case. We need to work with our EU partners, but we are not limited to EU partners, as I have indicated. This is a global issue, which is much wider than simply the EU.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has emphasised the international dimension and the need to co-operate, but does this not make it essential that whatever comes out of Chequers this weekend does not make co-operation with our European partners more difficult?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I have indicated, co-operation with our EU partners is central to this, but it is also wider than that and the Brexit issue. This is something on which we need international co-operation, as noble Lords are aware, and it is important to take it forward on that basis.

[Lord Christopher (Lab)]

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what is the basis of assessment for business rates of internet companies? Does it differ, and if so in what way, from ordinary high street shops?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the basis of business rates is associated with rental values. Therefore, one of the issues is that businesses in a town centre tend to pay higher business rates than those on the outskirts of a town, or online shops—those operating via the internet perhaps with warehouse premises elsewhere. That is the level playing field to which noble Lords refer, which we are committed to in our manifesto and driving forward internationally.

Rating (Property in Common Occupation) and Council Tax (Empty Dwellings) Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I will further add to that by declaring my own interests as a vice-president of the association, and also as a serving councillor in Newcastle. I rise to present the views of these Benches in the absence of my noble friend Lord Kennedy, who is en route to Birmingham for the Local Government Association conference.

I have had some experience of dealing with, or attempting to deal with, the problems of empty houses in the ward I represent in Newcastle. It has been impossible, eventually, either to persuade the owners to do the necessary work or, in one case, to acquire the property. While I certainly support the amendments before us, and I understand that they are likely to receive a reasonably warm response from the Minister, it occurs to me that perhaps the aspect of acquiring properties is a matter that should be given further consideration. It is an alternative approach that might well result in a quicker resolution of the problem, and enable the availability of a usable home, than simply collecting money by way of an incentive, as it were, for owners to do something, which may not be all that effective. I would be grateful if the Minister would indicate whether the Government will look again at the powers of local authorities to acquire in these circumstances, and whether these need to be enhanced, particularly in terms of the timescale involved. On the ground, it would probably make a greater difference than these measures, welcome though they are as an additional arm in trying to deal with this situation, which is, at a time of housing shortage, really quite disgraceful and should not be tolerated.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in the debate on Report. I shall, if I may, give the Government’s response and then try to pick up some of the points that have been raised by noble Lords during the debate. I am grateful, first, to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, obviously is, for moving the amendment, to the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and to the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, for speaking on behalf of his noble friend Lord Kennedy, who is on his way to the LGA conference.

I turn first to the amendment relating to the escalator. The noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, were kind enough to say that his amendment has received government support as well as support from the Labour Benches—we have obviously involved the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, in discussions on this, and others as well. This would mean that properties empty for between five and 10 years could face premiums of up to 200%, and homes empty for more than 10 years could be subject to 300% premiums. I stress that that is a matter of discretion for local authorities, which is written through all of this legislation. It is something that I and the Government have not been keen to depart from. It is a matter of localism—the noble Lord, Lord Stunnell, used that word several times.

I indicated in Committee that I had some sympathy with the suggestion that was brought forward and that I would reflect on it. The Government have reflected carefully on the arguments advanced by noble Lords at Second Reading and in Committee, and accept that there is a strong case for even higher premiums than those originally mentioned for homes that have been empty for an extended period of time. While we are unable to accept the amendment as it is currently drafted, I hope that noble Lords and the noble Baroness will be pleased to hear that we intend to bring forward a government amendment with the same effect at Third Reading.

Properties that have been empty for more than five years are likely to be few in number. I say to the noble Earl that this is not a revenue-raising measure: the intent is to free up properties for housing where they have been empty for a protracted period of time and to improve the amenity of a given area. It is not about raising a significant amount of revenue: I do not think that it will. It will raise some, but not a significant amount. However, such properties are often a blight on local communities and a nuisance to local residents. I accept that a strengthened incentive of a 200% or even 300% premium may prove more effective in such difficult cases, and could therefore ultimately bring benefits to the wider local community.

As I have mentioned in previous debates, we have to strike a balance in making this judgment, and ensure that no one is subject to the tripling or even quadrupling of their council tax bill without due consideration to the particular circumstances of the case. In relation to points first raised by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, about the broader social issue of property that people buy intending to leave it empty, I accept that that concern goes well beyond this targeted piece of legislation. I do not disagree with the general thrust of what he said at all. We will no doubt want to look at that. It will rightly remain up to local authorities whether and how to implement any higher premium based on local circumstances. That is important. Local authorities will know their circumstances best and how to target the premium in whatever way they want within the general broad framework that we have set out. We must ensure that higher premiums are applied fairly, but that will be done through the mechanism of the local authority.

We will, however, take the opportunity to revise the guidance issued in 2013 on the use of the premium to ensure that the additional powers are exercised with due consideration to issues facing low-demand areas and cases of hardship. We will have the benefit of today’s and earlier debates to look at when we consider how that is best done. We will also look to ensure that home owners have sufficient notice to prepare themselves for this change. That is something that I have shared with the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy. We anticipate that the higher premiums would come into force in 2020 for 200% premiums—anything that had been vacant since 2015, could in 2020 attract that higher premium—and in 2021 for 300% premiums, so that anything that had been vacant since 2011 could then attract that 300% premium. We are not convinced that local authorities have reliable statistics about empty properties longer ago than 2011, but they should have them from 2011 onwards because of current policy. That is a further consideration but not the only one. We were wary about the retrospective effect of this provision and felt that we should give appropriate notice, which noble Lords will understand.

I now turn to the second amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. As the noble Lord indicated, there was a similar amendment in Committee. This is slightly different with the insertion of the word “normally”, but that should not disguise the fact that this is still a directive to local authorities with the addition of “normally”. I hesitate to throw compliments the way of the noble Lord so I had better not call it a noble concept, but I admired the way that he sought to indicate that this amendment was different from the one in Committee. I am tempted to say “nice try”, but I am not convinced that it is different in kind.

The current system allows local authorities to take into account such considerations. Indeed, if they want to, they can go further than the noble Lord’s amendment and be more generous. There is nothing to prevent them exercising their discretion in this way, as well as for other good reasons—this is not the only good reason, although it is undoubtedly one. However, fundamentally these sorts of decisions are best made locally by those who know the challenges and demands of a given area. As already mentioned, it should remain a matter for local authorities to decide not only whether to charge a premium but the exact rate at which it should be charged.

I shall try to pick up the other points that were made. First, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, made a point about probate. I think that property that has not yet had probate is exempted anyway, although I accept that thereafter the period would kick in, so it is a relevant point.

In relation to most of the rest of the questions raised, I am afraid that I cannot read my own writing. I have made a note that the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, made some good points but I have not put what they are—nor should that be a surprise to anybody because he always makes good points. However, we will pick up the good points that require an answer and respond in writing.

[Lord Beecham]

If it is any consolation, my handwriting is even worse.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it is an affliction that lawyers, along with doctors, bear, so I understand the point that the noble Lord is making.

To sum up, we accept that there is a strong case for a higher premium, and I thank noble Lords who worked with us on the so-called escalator. I am pleased to say that the Government intend to bring forward their own amendment at Third Reading to the same effect. On the second amendment, although the Government recognise and understand the positive sentiment behind the noble concept of reducing the premium, it is a matter that we feel is best left to local authorities, as they have that discretion. Therefore, I hope that noble Lords will agree not to press their amendments on the basis that I have outlined.

[Lord Stunell]

Does the Minister have any news whatever on the biennial review of the Sustainable and Secure Buildings Act, as required by statute and now 18 months overdue?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I had not anticipated that the noble Lord would go in that direction—more widely than the debate. I hope he will accept that I will pick up that point and try to get an expeditious response to him, but I cannot give him any assurance beyond the fact that it is something that we realise is due. I will write to him and copy the letter to other noble Lords.

[Lord Shipley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for what he has said and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Affordable Housing: Social Homes for Rent

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornhill]

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many social homes for rent they estimate will be built under the affordable housing programme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, since 2010, we have delivered over 378,000 affordable homes, including 129,000 at social rent. Last week, we announced a £1.67 billion government investment deal that will deliver an additional 23,000 affordable homes outside of London, including at least 12,500 at social rent in areas where they are needed the most. This is part of the Government’s £9 billion investment in affordable homes. The total number of homes delivered will depend on the bids received.

[Baroness Thornhill (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer, and I am genuinely pleased to see any increase in social housing. However, let us take that figure of 12,500, which my own authority will be bidding for—that actually equates to 25 homes a year. I am sure the Minister is aware that delivery is actually down. The numbers sound grand until you realise that 40,000 affordable homes were delivered in 2010 but the figure was down to 5,500 in 2016-17. Last year, 12,000 homes were lost to right to buy alone. Can the Minister understand why these proposals and the figures that he outlined are loose change in response to the evidenced need? Will he reassure us that the forthcoming Green Paper will be both bold and radical in its attempt to solve what I believe is a real social crisis?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Baroness welcomes the progress made. In 2016-17, the year to which she referred, we saw 217,350 new homes delivered—the highest number in all but one of the previous 30 years.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to my interests as set out in the register. How many homes for social rent have been lost since 2012 due to government policy requiring conversion to affordable rent, and how many will be lost under the same policy if it continues until 2020?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, the affordable rent figures are generally the measure that is used. I have referred to the additional 23,000 affordable homes outside of London that we are committed to. He will know that we have a separate agreement with the Mayor of London, who is going to provide 26,000 affordable homes, although not as many at social rent as outside of London. I am sure the noble Lord will be pleased at the progress that is being made.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that the key element of affordable homes for rent lies with council housing? Is it not a fact that the last Labour Government produced precisely just over 500 homes a year for the previous three years—statistics which are in the Library for all to see? Against that background, the figures given by the Minister are greatly to be welcomed. In addition, can we soon expect a Statement on new towns or garden towns?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, on council houses, over the 13 years under Labour from 1997 to 2010, some 2,920 council homes were built whereas between 2010 and 2017, more than three times that number were built in a shorter period. On the general position as regards council housing, my noble friend will know that the £1 billion borrowing that we have committed to is now open for bids around the country. I think that 137 local authorities have shown an interest in this and bids are open until 7 September this year. He also referred to new towns, which are an important part of our programme. Next Monday my noble friend Lord Young will be presenting to the House some statutory instruments on these issues.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not the case that the last Labour Government spent millions and millions on bringing homes up to a decent standard after they inherited housing which was in a worse state than it had been for many years?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am afraid that the figures speak for themselves. Far more housing has been built in the past seven years than was built under 13 years of Labour. While I grant that it is important to ensure that homes are fit for occupation, it is far more important that we build houses that are fit for occupation. As I say, the figures speak for themselves by showing a massive improvement over the past few years.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I refer to my interests as declared in the register. My noble friend said that over the past year, 12,000 social homes have been sold under the right-to-buy scheme. Perhaps I may remind the Minister that current estimates suggest that the commitment that the Government made a few years ago on a one-for-one replacement of homes sold under the right to buy has not been achieved, and on current announcements made in the past few days, it will not be achieved? Might the Government consider permitting local authorities to keep 100% of right-to-buy receipts?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, inherent in the noble Lord’s question is the importance of right to buy—and, indeed, refreshed right to buy and enhanced right to buy—which I acknowledge. I agree with him about the importance of permitting local authorities to use those receipts to build more. That has been happening at a greater rate, but I acknowledge that he is right to say that more could be done.

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Best]

Thank you, I am most grateful. I congratulate the Government on moving towards more genuinely affordable low rents. We are seeing a swing in the pendulum; I hope that it is just the start of a swing that goes a lot further than it has done so far, but we are now heading in the right direction. Can the Minister impress on his Treasury colleagues that it really is important that rents are low enough for people genuinely to afford because otherwise the Treasury is paying more in housing benefit, people’s work incentives are much worse, and we end up with homelessness? We can see already that housing associations and councils have to turn people away because those on the lowest incomes cannot afford the so-called “affordable rents”. It would be to the benefit of the Treasury if the Minister could argue the case for more grant aid in support of real social rents.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord has done a massive amount in this area. I acknowledge that a lot of my life is spent arguing with the Treasury about various issues, as he can imagine, but I would impress on him that when rent controls were in place, we had a far less vibrant rental market than we do now. We would not want to go back to that sort of control.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, will the noble Lord answer my noble friend’s question? The inheritance of council stock in 1997 was so bad that the resources of the Labour Government had to be put into restoring them to anywhere like living capacity.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I would not acknowledge that. I acknowledge that work was done on that basis but I do not think that the Labour Party or Labour Government should get off the hook on their deplorable record of council house building in that period.

Anti-terrorism: Hate Speech

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in pursuit of their anti-terrorism strategy, they will require preaching in mosques and teaching in madrassas in England and Wales to be monitored for hate speech against non-Muslims.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, it is just a year since the Finsbury Park terror attack on the mosque, and I am reminded how the Muslim community acted then—with dignity, determination and compassion—as no doubt the noble Lord is also so reminded. Our Government are clear on our strong objective to tackle hate crime. Free speech and freedom of belief are fundamental principles of our society. The Government have no plans to require monitoring of preaching in mosques or in any other faith institution.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply, but I fear that it underestimates the problem because the Government must know that hatred of us kuffar is central to radical Islam, that it is being taught in our mosques and madrassas, and that their own Behavioural Insights Team has said that their present policies are failing. Should not the Government get real by requiring all such teaching to be in English, as soon as possible, and by insisting on far greater collaboration from our peaceful Muslim friends in the meantime? After all, they know what is going on. And will the Government please stop using the word “Islamophobia”, because it is surely reasonable and not at all phobic to fear the world’s most violent ideology, from which indeed most hate speech now comes?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, the Government are committed to tackling Islamophobia. Secondly, perhaps I could tell the noble Lord of two recent visits I have made in relation to faith institutions. One was to a mosque in Manchester: an excellent mosque in Gorton, where Jews and Christians were welcomed for a great iftar. It was a true expression of British Muslim activity. Similarly, the previous day I visited the Manchester Islamic High School for Girls, where the opening words from the headmistress were on how proud she was to be British—but she was also proud to be Muslim.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, I do not like to read, but I shall be really careful how I phrase this with reference to the original Question. Could I ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in pursuit of their antiterrorism strategy, they will require preaching in the form of Oral Questions and debate in your Lordships’ House to be monitored for hate speech and Islamophobia against Muslims? Does the Minister agree that Tommy Robinson, who has, to much disgust, been hosted in your Lordships’ House for tea and lunch but is now serving time in, I believe, Her Majesty’s Prison Hull, is now in a more appropriate place for someone who thinks, speaks, preaches and conducts himself as he does?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend makes some powerful points, and I pay tribute to what she does in this regard. First, I agree with her about the importance of people in this House exercising discretion—of course, within the bounds of free speech—about what they say. Secondly, I am aware that Tommy Robinson is in Her Majesty’s Prison Hull, and I was aware that he was hosted here recently. I was recently in Hull myself, not on prison visits but on faith visits.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, the Labour Party has been criticised—rightly, as it has now acknowledged —for failing to respond promptly to claims of anti-Semitism in its ranks. Recently, we have learned of a number of cases of Islamophobia in the Conservative Party, and today it has emerged that, four weeks ago, the Muslim Council of Britain wrote to Brandon Lewis, the party chairman, requesting an inquiry, to which it received no reply, prompting it to write again yesterday, saying:

“We cannot have an approach where you are hoping that the issue would magically go away so that (you) could avoid a bruising inquiry into anti-Muslim prejudice”.


Will the Minister—held, as he is, in the highest regard in this House—use his best endeavours to ensure that his party and the Government respond constructively to the concern expressed on behalf of our Muslim fellow citizens?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord for his kind words and what he said about anti-Semitism, which needs tackling in all political parties, as does Islamophobia. I fully accept that. He will probably be aware that the Prime Minister answered a question on this in PMQs today and made clear our determination to deal with the issue. I cannot give him an update on a letter that was sent yesterday—that will probably take a bit longer—but there have been suspensions and expulsions and, wherever there is evidence of Islamophobia in our party, it will be dealt with severely, often with expulsion. I hope that we can look to other political parties to do the same with respect to all religions—this is something that affects all of us. I share the noble Lord’s aspiration that this be properly dealt with.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Pinnock]

Does the Minister agree that an attempt to stigmatise Muslims, as the original Question does, is unworthy of any Member of your Lordships’ House, and that such language aids those who oppose cohesive communities and encourages hate crimes and attacks on both mosques and individual Muslims?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I very much agree with the noble Baroness on that issue. She will know, as I do, that the great mass of people in this country want the cohesive communities that, for the most part, we have. As I go around the country, I see that. That is the norm, but we need to ensure that it is universally the case, which, sadly, it is not yet, across all our communities.

[Baroness Afshar]

My Lords, as a teacher of Islamic law, I should like to make a correction. Islam accepts all religions that preceded it—all religions of the book are accepted and respected. This is a Koranic teaching; therefore, there is no time or respect for anyone who demonises any religion, and that should include Islam as well.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, who speaks with great authority on the issue. I am sure that the whole House will take note. As I said, as I go around the country and visit mosques and other religious institutions, evidence of what is happening up and down Britain is that it is exactly as she said.

[The Archbishop of York]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that pursuing anti-terrorism is the business not just of the Government but of all citizens of the United Kingdom? Therefore, if noble Lords do not mind an African saying, when two elephants fight, or make love, the grass gets hurt—what will not work is either side of the House thinking that it is doing a better job than the other. All of us are involved in trying to resist terrorism; it does not matter where it comes from. It is the duty of every citizen to pursue that particular reality. I lived in Uganda at one time when Idi Amin could just pick on anybody; it did not matter who you were or what you believed. What is critical, when we as citizens of the nation do not assist in the whole question of overcoming terrorism, is that it would be a mistake to think that it is purely an Islamic question.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I am most grateful to the most reverend Primate for his words. It is certainly something for all of us and all religions, as he has said. It is reflected in the integration Green Paper, on which we have been consulting. I was recently in Peterborough, which is one of our areas trailblazing integration, to see the good work being done there across all religions.

Anti-Semitism

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 26th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister announced the Government’s adoption of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s working definition of anti-Semitism in December 2016. Since then, we have encouraged local authorities to adopt the definition. To date, 135 local authorities across the United Kingdom have done so, as have a number of universities, the National Union of Students and the Union of Jewish Students. In addition, a number of political parties have adopted the definition and the police and CPS already use it as a guide. It is good to see in his place my noble friend Lord Pickles, who has done so much great work in this area.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley]

I thank the Minister and agree that all institutions and political parties should adopt this definition of anti-Semitism, which includes, of course, disproportionate attacks on Israel. Does the Minister share my concern that in this parliamentary Session there have been, according to the House of Lords Library, more than 250 Questions on Israel which, to put it in context, compares with 50 on Iran and five on anti-Semitism?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

As a Minister, I know quite a bit about answering the same question time and again, as noble Lords will be aware. Ultimately, this is a matter for individual noble Lords; it is not a matter for the Government. Obviously, noble Lords will need to declare interests, but if they do so, that is a matter for them.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, the IHRA definition clarifies that, when it comes to anti-Semitism by way of criticism of Israel, cases should be judged taking into account the overall context and may—rather than must—be anti-Semitic; and that,

“criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic”.

Does the Minister believe that this is sufficient to ensure freedom of speech?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right that there is obviously an important balance to be struck between freedom of speech and the definition of anti-Semitism. It is important that people bear in mind the definition of anti-Semitism, but ultimately all freedom of speech is constrained in some way. Nobody can go into a theatre and yell “Fire!”—unless there is a fire, of course—so noble Lords would be well advised when exercising the right of free speech to be aware of the parameters within which it is exercised.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

Does the Minister realise that one of the problems is that Government of Israel now calls itself “the Jewish State of Israel”? Could he advise us whether we are being anti-Semitic when we criticise the actions of the Government of the Jewish State of Israel?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I do not want to be drawn too much into semantics on this. I think noble Lords will in general realise what is legitimate criticism of the policy of a particular state—that is legitimate—but they will be aware of the definition of anti-Semitism which the Government, the Conservative Party and many local authorities have adopted. That is a good thing and is recognised as such internationally.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that anti-Semitism is a truly despicable form of abuse and that it has absolutely no place in Britain? Will he join me in congratulating the Community Security Trust for what it has done in highlighting this abuse and racism? Will he ask his ministerial colleagues in the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice to ensure that everything is in place to support the police and the CPS to bring prosecutions against the perpetrators of these evil crimes?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s record is unimpeachable in this regard and I join him in paying tribute to the CST. He will be aware that at the top reaches of his party in the other place, there is still an issue to address, but I certainly exempt noble Lords in this House from that charge. However, there is much work to be done on anti-Semitism in the upper reaches of the Labour Party.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister share my feeling that it is shameful and a stain on our reputation that we even have to discuss this and that we find that anti-Semitism is mainstreaming, especially in our universities? I cannot imagine—and I am sure the Minister cannot imagine—anyone attempting to narrow the definition of, for example, Islamophobia. There is a singling out of Jews and Israel under the guise of anti-Israelism.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, in her last phrase I think the noble Baroness is referring to university campuses. There are issues there that remain a concern, but in all fairness considerable progress has been made. The present NUS president, Shakira Martin, deserves praise. She has been working with the Union of Jewish Students, for example. There is still work to be done, but considerable work has been done in that regard. I agree with the noble Baroness about tackling Islamophobia. That too is a challenge that we have to meet in all political parties.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

Will the Minister explain what Her Majesty’s Government are doing to deal with anti-Semitism in social media?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend will be aware that hate crime in general on social media is something we are seeking to address; we have invested money in that fairly recently. My noble friend is correct to say that it is a very important concern, but it also has an international dimension and is very difficult to deal with. For all that, it is important that we do deal with it, and we are seeking to do so.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, anti-Semitism is absolutely reprehensible and abhorrent. It is a stain on our society, and I welcome any moves to stamp it out, but may I ask the Minister to help me? He mentioned Islamophobia as well. Some of us in this Chamber who come from a particular background are subjected to the most appalling comments by an individual in this Chamber about our faith and about people from the same faith—mainly Muslims—with very little intervention. Can he say whether the same will apply in this Chamber: that we lead by example and we stamp out such questions and comments, which make some of us feel very uncomfortable, and beyond, about coming from a Muslim background?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am unaware of the specifics that the noble Baroness mentions, but based on what she has just said: absolutely. It is abominable that anybody should be singled out on the basis of race or religion. All discrimination is wrong, and I wholeheartedly endorse what she has said.

[Lord Clarke of Hampstead (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me in welcoming the visit made yesterday by Prince William to Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem? Does he further agree that Prince William’s desire to go to the other side and talk to Palestinian people to try to get some understanding can only be a good thing for the future of both states?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

Entirely, my Lords; I wholeheartedly agree.

MV “Empire Windrush”

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 21st June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to introduce an annual celebration of the anniversary of the arrival of the MV Windrush on 22 June 1948.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Windrush generation answered the call to help the mother country in rebuilding our nation after the war. They and their descendants have contributed massively to national life; for example, they have inspired and entertained as British entrepreneurs, nurses, musicians and athletes. I have had the pleasure of working with key stakeholders, including my noble friend Lady Berridge and the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, to celebrate this landmark moment. On Monday, I was pleased to announce that we will continue to celebrate Windrush Day every year on 22 June, starting tomorrow. We will work with the Windrush Day panel of key stakeholders to provide a £500,000 grant every year to support these celebrations and ensure a lasting legacy.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted that Her Majesty’s Government have announced 22 June as Windrush Day every year and significant funding to match that. I am grateful to my noble friend the Minister for mentioning the contribution of nurses because, less than a fortnight after the arrival of the MV Windrush, the National Health Service was founded. I would be grateful if the Minister could outline what plans Her Majesty’s Government have to add Windrush, as such a significant marker in our country’s history, to the national curriculum so that its contribution can be taught to the next generation.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

As I said, my noble friend has contributed massively in this area. She is absolutely right about the continuing importance of those people to our great National Health Service, which is celebrating 70 years this year, just as Windrush landed here 70 years ago tomorrow. On education, I have been speaking with the Department for Education, which is keen to ensure that we recognise this as a part of all our histories. Arthur Torrington from Windrush 70, who gave a hallmark lecture in St Margaret’s Church yesterday, has been supplying materials to the Department for Education, so that is being taken forward.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, on behalf of Windrush pioneers and the Windrush Foundation, of which I am a patron, I congratulate the Government and the Minister on answering our pleas to create an annual Windrush Day as a legacy of the Windrush generation. This will make Caribbean people, who for not just the last 70 years but centuries have worked hard to make Britain great and prosperous, despite suffering indignity, abuse and heartache, finally feel appreciated. Will the Government consider commissioning a Windrush memorial, perhaps at Tilbury Docks, as a permanent reminder of this important part of our history, especially for the sake of our children?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is a magnificent example of the people of Caribbean descent in this country. Throughout this campaign, her smiling presence has been very welcome. She makes powerful points. Of course, our £500,000 budget will be significant in ensuring a lasting legacy. Obviously, her points will be heard and we always pay great attention to what the noble Baroness says.

[Lord Morris of Handsworth (Lab)]

My Lords, while I appreciate the need for some recognition of the day, the fact of the matter is that the Windrushers I spoke to in Speaker’s House earlier this week, one of whom was actually on the ship, want reparation and the opportunities they have lost to be taken into consideration.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Lord is, again, a marvellous example in our national life of what many of Caribbean descent have succeeded in doing in this country. I too had the great privilege of meeting the Windrush survivor—very few people who were on that boat are still alive, but he was very much alive and it was great to see him in Speaker’s House. The noble Lord will know that compensation is being made available for some of the issues that arose relating to Windrush, about which we have all been outraged. The Home Secretary has made it very clear that he is also looking at a hardship fund, in response to a point that the right honourable Member David Lammy raised in the other place.

[Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (Con)]

Would the Minister agree that, since the Windrush generation has made such a unique contribution to British life—I speak as someone who succeeded with the very first Windrush case approximately 10 years ago, which gave me some astonishment; when other cases followed I was amazed—and given their tremendous success, particularly with the hostility they faced at the very beginning, which I recall well, because they came from a different place, is it possible to use their skills and experience to broaden British tolerance? We are, after all, approximately the most tolerant nation on the globe, but given the very great variety of our nation we can always use more understanding of tolerance. This generation and its descendants are uniquely positioned. They faced hostility, overcame it and made huge contributions.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. There are many issues that we still have to deal with. We should not be too complacent. We have a great record on tolerance, but the Prime Minister has been very keen, for example, to proceed with the race disparity audit. We are considering responses on consultation to an integration Green Paper. But it is absolutely right that we celebrate the magnificent contribution of this community. Later on today I will be in Tilbury; tomorrow I will be in Lambeth. Activities are going on around the country to mark Windrush Day this week and certainly tomorrow on Windrush Day itself.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will recall that well before the Windrush arrived, people from the Caribbean contributed a great deal to our war effort in both world wars, with several thousand members of the West Indies regiment, particularly in the Palestine campaign, in the First World War and in all three services in the second. Given that one of our major aims in our commemoration of the centenary of the First World War has been to educate the younger generation about the contributions their ancestors made, is he confident that in our commemoration so far and in how we are planning the end of the First World War’s commemoration, we are paying sufficient attention to the role of not only Caribbeans but the 1.5 million members of the Indian army in the First World War?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, yes I am. The noble Lord is absolutely right to stress that. As he says, there is another great celebration this year—the 100th year commemoration of the end of the First World War. It is important that that is carried forward. It is also important in terms of education, which was touched on earlier by the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge.

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

The Minister said earlier that there would be a hardship fund. We understood that a compensation scheme was being established. Can he give some details of that compensation scheme, because that confusion needs to be clarified?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I think that the record will say that there is a compensation scheme and a hardship fund is being looked at. If I did not say that, it is certainly what I should have said—but I believe that I did. The Home Secretary is looking at that. Compensation is in progress. I will ensure that a letter giving details of how that is operating is sent to noble Lords and a copy placed in the Library.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, would it not be good to have a total reform of the Home Office immigration procedure to make sure that the Windrush dilemma never happens again?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks powerfully on immigration and refugees, but it is well beyond my pay grade to rewrite Home Office procedures, not least since it is not my ministry.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. I think that we all welcome the celebration of the Windrush generation and the recognition of their work and their contribution to this country. However, as he will have heard, there is still great concern about the scandalous treatment of people of that generation. For many, the scars of that will take a long time to heal. How many cases remain outstanding and how many people have been deported where their cases have been resolved or deportation notices have been withdrawn?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I have indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, I will cover in writing the detail of some of the points that the noble Baroness raises. She will be aware that the Home Office and the present Home Secretary are setting about putting this right with some gusto and determination. Sixty-three cases were initially identified. Not all those are necessarily of people who had British nationality, but the Government are looking at 63 Windrush cases in some detail. The noble Baroness is right that this needs putting right, and successive Governments have not done that. From the outrage that was rightly expressed about this, there is a clear message from the British people that we need to get it put right. I do want in any way to minimise the challenge, but, meanwhile, an important celebration and commemoration will be going on every year on Windrush Day.

Short-Term Holiday Lets

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, while declaring an interest, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, landlords already have legal routes to enforce agreements with tenants where permission is required to sublet. Where short-term lets breach planning controls, responsibility for enforcement lies with local authorities. I would encourage the noble Baroness to meet the Short Term Accommodation Association to discuss her concerns, and would be happy to facilitate that.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

I thank the Minister for that reply. At last there has been a breakthrough in the brick wall facing this issue. Does he agree that when he spoke last week, on 13 June, at col. 1726 of Hansard, he gave me cause to believe that, at long last, his view is that people should not get away with this criminal activity?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, laws on crimes are enforceable in the normal way. I am not sure what the noble Baroness is referring to. As I say, there are avenues for enforcing agreements and planning controls which local authorities can enforce. The Short Term Accommodation Association is making great strides and I would encourage her to meet up with it.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, short-term holiday lets, including Airbnb, can now be classified as business premises. Under the small business rates relief scheme, if the rateable value is under £12,000 a small business pays neither business rates nor council tax—effectively it pays no tax—a system that can be abused. How many properties fall under this category and what is the cost to the public purse of this concession?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, there is no specific Airbnb concession nor one for Short Term Accommodation Association members. They have to pay tax in the normal way, just as the noble Lord and I have to do, and if they are not paying tax that is illegal. However, in defence of Airbnb, it is operating within the law. In London it cannot go further than 90 days. It is prohibited from doing that by the system which it has introduced, which I have seen.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, at about this time last week my noble friend the Minister did refer to firms acting,

“in a risky and nefarious way”.—[Official Report, 13/6/18; col. 1726].

One did rather draw from that the inference that some action was being contemplated. Can he give the House some idea of what he has in mind?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the position regarding the short-term letting area of activity is that it is very much something that the Government encourage. We have a 90-day limit in London, while outside of London there is no restriction in the UK. It is something that operates totally within the law, but if there is a breach, the law should be enforced by the relevant agency. That agency is often but not always the local authority.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister concerned that setting up a register of holiday lets would further encourage more short-term lettings which, without long-term residency, can cause greater problems with anti-social behaviour, overcrowding, and the breaking of leases and insurance terms? That, I suggest, is the crux of the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner—the fact that short-term lets make for bad neighbours.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, like anything else, short-term lets have to operate within the law. I share the noble Lord’s belief that setting up a register would be of no assistance. Issues such as gas safety, fire safety and environmental protection all apply to short-term lets, just as they do to anything else.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, not only do short-term lets pay no local tax, they basically pay no general tax. Is the Minister aware that, unlike owners of longer-term rented properties, those with short-term lets can claim 100% tax relief on mortgage repayments and 100% tax relief on improving the fabric of the property, while at the same time killing scores of villages across the country by buying up ordinary houses purely to make a short-term profit?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I recall that I did offer the noble Lord the facility to discuss this further in relation to the Lake District and I restate that offer. I will be happy to look at the position. Businesses have to operate within the law. If they do not do so, they will have the rigour of the law applied to them. Short-term accommodation lets are in the same category and if any noble Lord has reason to suppose that they are not paying tax in the correct way, they should let me have that information. I will ensure that it is passed to the appropriate authorities.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my relevant interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. The noble Baroness, Lady Gardner of Parkes, has raised this issue many times and we are grateful to her for that. Is the noble Lord satisfied that the law in respect of short-term holiday lettings is being adhered to generally, or is it being flouted?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I can only restate that if the law has been flouted and if noble Lords are aware of that, and that certainly applies to the noble Lord opposite, I will be very happy to look at the particular situation. In so far as any information has been brought to me, I have absolutely satisfied myself that, in those very few cases, the law had not been flouted. Of course these people have to abide by the law, including the 90-day limit. They would be wise to ensure that they are acting within the terms of their lease, but if they are not, that is a contractual matter and it is for the other contracting party—the landlord—to ensure that they abide by those rules.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, if people have a social housing tenancy and they sublet their property at a profit, are they committing an offence and should they be punished, or do we let it go by?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend will be aware that such action would almost certainly be a breach of the tenancy agreement and, once again, it would be for the relevant landlord, be it the local authority or a housing association, to ensure that the rigour of the law is applied.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, in the question that I asked I made a statement about the position of short-term lets and the payment of business rates. Is the Minister suggesting that I am wrong? If he is doing that, I think he should check his facts.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, far be it from me to suggest that the noble Lord is ever wrong. If business rates apply in a particular situation, they should be paid, but if they do not apply, they should not. It is as simple as that.