Oral Answers to Questions
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 1 month ago)
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Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
I, too, welcome you to your place, Mr Speaker. My constituents, Julie Pearson and Kirsty Maxwell, died abroad. They were taken far too soon in suspicious circumstances. I have asked questions of two Prime Ministers and met several Foreign and Commonwealth Office Ministers, and I could not get them the help that they needed, so I set up an all-party group on consular services and deaths abroad. Sixty families gave evidence in hours of harrowing experiences. Ninety two recommendations were made. It is clear that there is a cultural problem stemming from lack of funding. The officers who are trying to help these families abroad do not have the resources or training. Will the Minister read my report and, most of all, will he apologise to the families that we have met across all our constituencies who have been let down by the FCO?
Andrew Stephenson
I am reading the hon. Lady’s report, and, unfortunately, I find it rather one-sided. I know that my predecessor agreed to meet the all-party group, but the meeting never took place because a date was never arranged. That was not because my predecessor did not try to get that arranged. I have agreed with the hon. Lady to meet the APPG, but, again, that meeting has never happened, so rather than publishing one-sided reports, I wish that she and the members of that APPG actually worked with the Foreign Office, which has some incredible staff, dealing with some very serious incidents across the world. Last year, there were 4,000 deaths of British nationals overseas. We will always look at what more we can do and implement many of the Victims’ Commissioner’s recommendations and work with other non-governmental organisations to improve our service for people who die abroad. I only wish that we could have a more constructive approach from the all-party group.
Imprisonment of Catalan Leaders
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
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Christopher Pincher
The people of Catalonia have the right to freedom of expression through the ballot box in the regional Parliament, which they have done. The Catalonian parliamentarians have the right to freedom of expression when they debate the question of independence, which they have done, so I do not really see why the hon. Gentleman is making the argument that he is. They have a right in the Spanish Parliament, and in the Catalonian Parliament, to speak, to debate and to be heard, but they must do that within the rule of law, which the Spanish courts have decided they have not.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
As a younger woman in my 20s I visited Catalonia as part of a European Free Alliance Scottish delegation, where I met and worked with many young Catalan activists and leaders who wanted one thing—to decide their own future in a democratic and legal way. Whatever his views on independence for Catalonia or any other country around the world, surely the Minister agrees with the right to self-determination and of citizens to decide the future path of their nation and people. The Minister has an opportunity to redeem himself. Does he agree with that right and that it cannot be right for any political differences to be solved by police brutality and incarceration?
Christopher Pincher
I certainly agree that people have the right to self-determination, but they must pursue it within the law. In the case of Spain, that requires a change to the Spanish constitution and it is for Spain to change its constitution, not for this Parliament or the British Government.
Oral Answers to Questions
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 3 months ago)
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Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
The Minister for Europe and the Americas (Christopher Pincher)
On 27 August, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Brazilian Foreign Minister, Mr Araújo. I will also be seeing the Brazilian ambassador, Mr Arruda, tomorrow, to reaffirm our commitment to working in partnership with Brazil on a range of issues, including the environment. In response to the very serious fires, the Prime Minister announced at the G7 £10 million for protection and restoration of the rain forest. That is in addition to the £120 million of funding we provide through our other programmes.
Christopher Pincher
The Minister of State, Department for International Trade, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns), was there as part of our international trade obligations, to ensure that we build trade with our strategic partners, such as Brazil. I will be seeing the Brazilian ambassador tomorrow and making clear that we want to help Brazil with its difficulties in these terrible fires, but also that we want to trade with it, because that is a way of building its economy and ensuring that the sorts of fires that are currently raging are put out and stay out.
Hannah Bardell
Last week, both the Taoiseach and French President said that they will attempt to block the Mercosur trade agreement if Brazil does not honour its environmental commitments. Does the Minister agree that the burning of the Amazon is a human and environmental tragedy that requires a global solution and this is no time for fragile male egos or social media spats? What steps has he taken to ensure that such situations receive an urgent and immediate multilateral response now and in the future?
Christopher Pincher
I hope that the hon. Lady will not think that my response is in any way macho. My concern is to make sure that the trade with our two countries prospers and that the Mercosur arrangement succeeds. It will result in the removal of something like 91% of present tariffs. That can only be to the benefit of Brazilian farmers and to the benefit of the Brazilian economy. If we help to ensure that these sensible trade arrangements are made, those fires can be put out and they will stay out.
The Minister for Africa (Andrew Stephenson)
I thank my hon. Friend for consistently raising this topic. As he will know, the Government have accepted all the recommendations in the report and work is under way to take them forward. We have established an implementation team and allocated £200,000 this year to look at concrete actions that the UK can take.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
Hong Kong
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 6 months ago)
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Mark Field
My hon. Friend obviously takes a great interest in these matters, having been a Foreign Office Minister in the past himself. I think that the biggest message we can send is the very fact that so much attention has been paid to the issue. This is the third parliamentary debate on it. Our debates are clearly followed avidly in Hong Kong, and will continue to be so.
We want to see peaceful demonstrations. It is worth pointing out that the rule of law does apply to demonstrations. At the time of some of the Occupy movement demonstrations, when there was an over-reaction, or a perceived over-reaction, from the Hong Kong police, fines and indeed prison sentences were meted out. We want to ensure that the rule of law and the autonomy that allows freedom of expression in Hong Kong are maintained. That is underpinned in the joint declaration, and, indeed, in all the arrangements that underpin the essence of one country, two systems.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
I am grateful for advance sight of the Minister’s statement, and I welcome his strong words, but those strong words must be matched by strong actions.
Legal professionals have expressed concern about the rights of those sent across the border to be tried. The conviction rate in Chinese courts is as high as 99%, and arbitrary detentions, torture and denial of legal representation of one’s own choosing are common.
I am sure the Minister will agree that the fundamental rights of freedom of expression and assembly have been shown to be at risk in Hong Kong, with at least 72 protesters hospitalised by police. I wonder whether he has seen some of the social media reportage of protesters who have been protecting journalists. One journalist working for CBS Asia had been given a helmet and protected from tear gas by protesters. The protesters were also turning up the next day to clean up rubbish and ensure that it was recycled. I think that demonstrates the spirit in which they are trying to express their views.
Does the Minister agree that police violence such as this is unacceptable? What representations has he made, and will he make, to his counterparts in Hong Kong about the need for a de-escalation?
Many Hong Kongers fear that authorities will use the proposed extradition law to target political enemies, and have expressed concern about arbitrary detentions and the use of torture. Following a recent report from the Foreign Affairs Committee which called for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to redouble its efforts to
“hold China to account through UN mechanisms, public statements and private diplomacy for its human rights violations”,
what conversations have the Foreign Secretary, and the Minister himself, had with his Chinese counterpart about the need to protect human rights and freedom of expression?
Mark Field
I thank the hon. Lady for her constructive comments. I think we know from what we have seen on our television screens and on the vast social media that this issue is of grave concern—as she said, 72 people have apparently been hospitalised. As I said in my response to the urgent question on Monday, our biggest single concern is that the Chinese legal system is so disaligned with the Hong Kong system, which has led to arbitrary detentions, delays and the like.
We clearly want to see no violence either from protestors or in disproportionate action from the police, and clearly we would hope, and very much expect given what has happened with the Occupy movements in years gone by, that those guilty of disproportionate action or indeed of violence would be properly brought to account.
Representations are made to the Chinese Government on a vast range of areas; they are meat and drink to all of us as FCO Ministers, as they are to Ministers in a number of other Departments. We will continue to have a six-monthly report on Hong Kong; we are criticised at every opportunity by the Chinese embassy for so doing, but we believe the one country, two systems model must be maintained. The management of it is obviously a matter for the Hong Kong Government; however, the Chinese Government are on record as supporting the extradition proposals.
We will continue to raise Hong Kong at all levels with China, and clearly, as the hon. Lady will appreciate given the importance of the issue, over the course of this week there have been plenty of opportunities, both with China and our Hong Kong counterparts, to make clear our grave concerns, which are shared by millions of our constituents.
LGBT Rights: Brunei
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) on securing this debate and on her excellent speech.
It is a sad fact—and not one that is in the infamous guide to coming out—that when someone comes out, they look at the world map in a very different way. That is largely to find out whether the country that they are visiting on business or on holiday is going to arrest, torture or murder them just because of who they love or who they are. As we have heard, Brunei’s strict legal code mandates for death for adultery and sex between men, lashes for lesbian sex and amputation for crimes such as theft. It discriminates not just against LGBT people, but against women particularly
That has sparked a tide of condemnation. We in the SNP have unequivocally condemned Brunei’s actions. My hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) spoke about the grassroots response, his constituent Sarah Quinn—a member of the Scottish Youth Parliament—and the number of signatures that her petition has gathered. At the weekend, we saw people outside some of the hotels owned by the Sultan.
To my mind that is not enough, because until this shameful announcement, 70 countries criminalised same-sex activity between consenting adults. That accounts for almost 3 billion people, or 40% of the world’s population, living in countries that have anti-LGBT laws. Although, unfortunately, the shambles of Brexit is diminishing the UK’s soft power, it still has significant power and I know that the Minister has made strong statements of condemnation. However, he and the Government have also recently visited Brunei.
In August 2018 the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) visited as trade envoy to Brunei, Thailand and Burma. He talked about what a successful visit it was, and about the great insight that it gave him into the significant opportunities that already exist within Brunei’s economy. I hope that the Minister can give us some comfort and a sense that he will use his power to make sure a strong message is sent. Whatever happens with Brexit the UK will be flailing around potentially looking for trade deals, and they cannot come at the cost of our values.
Richard Graham
It is interesting that since the CHOGM of last year two countries in the Commonwealth have changed their legal position on decriminalising homosexuality, including India, which means that in that great country of more than 1 billion people it is now perfectly legal. Does the hon. Lady agree that some progress is being made?
Hannah Bardell
I absolutely do agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is hugely important. We must be in no doubt that we have the opportunity to bring about change and exert influence. The hon. Member for Bristol West spoke of specific things that we could do: freezing assets, recovering honours, recalling ambassadors and suspending Brunei from the Commonwealth. I endorse that. When I heard the news I felt sick to my stomach, and I am sure that we all did. I visited Malawi recently, where the Government turn a blind eye to homosexuality, but where if someone is trans they literally do not exist. There must be changes in those countries and we must do everything we can.
Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)
My hon. Friend mentions the Commonwealth and the possible remedy of suspension. Of course no country has ever been expelled but countries have been suspended for violation of democracy and the rule of law. Does she agree that what has happened in Brunei is every bit as serious as that and that we must keep suspension or expulsion from the Commonwealth up our sleeve as the ultimate sanction?
Hannah Bardell
I absolutely agree. In the brief time I have left I want to refer to countries such as Qatar, which, in my view, have illegally been awarded major sporting championships. Qatar will host the World cup. Scotland will not be in the men’s World cup. England will. What kind of message would it send if England decided to take a stand and say “We are not going to that country and that competition”? It is a difficult decision to take and there is a balance of judgment, but until we stop allowing countries such as Qatar, Brunei and Russia to hold major sporting competitions they will continue to abuse their people and their human rights, and it is time we took a stronger stand.
Mark Field
Yes, it is, obviously, in counter-terrorism and other areas. The most disappointing thing for me and, I know, for my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester, who is also a regular in Brunei, is the contrast between what we see on the ground—a peaceful, peace-loving people and a state that runs in a very patrician way, as we might imagine given that only 350,000 people live there—and the idea of hudud punishments and the enactment of a sharia penal code. Those things seem entirely at odds with each other, but we are working with Brunei on the grounds the hon. Gentleman points out.
The garrison is the UK’s only permanent military presence in the Asia-Pacific. I should point out that a vast amount of the expense of the garrison is met by the Sultan of Brunei, who has always been eternally grateful for our intervention in Borneo in 1962. The garrison provides unique influence and insight—not just for us but for Brunei—in a region of growing strategic importance, and enables vital training for UK forces, supporting our deployments and allies. We have ensured that the necessary protections are in place for personnel based in Brunei, but we would look for that to apply more generally.
A number of hon. Members and others outside this place have asked whether the Commonwealth should take action and whether there should be economic or trade boycotts. The FCO’s approach to both is the same: we believe that our concerns are best addressed not through blacklisting or boycotts but through persistent dialogue, as the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) will recognise, and through diplomacy.
Brunei is one of several Commonwealth member states that criminalise homosexual relationships and retain corporal or capital punishments. We will continue relentlessly to try to encourage each of those countries to amend and suspend those forms of punishment. There has been progress, but I accept that many would like to see much quicker progress. In many ways, what is disappointing about this issue in Brunei is that the implementation of such a code is a backward rather than a forward step.
My noble Friend the Minister for the Commonwealth has spoken in detail about this issue to the secretary-general of the Commonwealth, who I understand is presently in contact with the Government of Brunei, expressing the deep concerns raised by the international community over the past 10 days. We stand ready to support any Commonwealth member wanting to reform legislation that discriminates against the LGBT community, women and other parts of society. Significant work is ongoing in a number of states where we hope that there will be progress.
The hon. Member for Bristol West asked me to do my homework from six days ago in relation to article 3 of UNCAT. Under UK law, extradition cannot take place where the death penalty is a possibility, unless a satisfactory assurance has been received that the death penalty will not be imposed or carried out.
Mark Field
No, I really am running out of time.
The UK Government remain committed to delivering an asylum system that is sensitive and responsive to all forms of persecution, including those based on sexual orientation and gender identity, and that supports claimants in providing all information relevant to their claim in order to facilitate fair and sustainable asylum decisions. We ensure that claimants are given every opportunity to disclose information relevant to their claim before a decision is taken, including where that information may be sensitive or difficult to disclose. Those who need international protection should always, of course, claim asylum in the first safe country that they reach.
The introduction of extreme hudud punishments in Brunei has understandably caused genuine concern, alarm and consternation in this country and elsewhere. It has also caused concern and uncertainty in Brunei, particularly among residents who are from the UK or are other non-Bruneian nationals. We are a friend of Brunei—I am proud to say that even at this time. Many Members will understand that it is easy to criticise Ministers for talking in such terms, but we have to work closely with our friends. We have expressed, and should continue to express, deep concerns candidly and openly.
We remain deeply troubled by the potential impact of the sharia penal code. Therefore, the Government, our high commissioner and I will continue to guide, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester said, the Government of Brunei to take all necessary steps to reassure its own people, the United Kingdom and the wider international community that it is fully committed to allowing all citizens and residents to live with dignity and free from discrimination or persecution.
The Foreign Secretary and I will reiterate that point when we meet the Bruneian Foreign and Finance Ministers, who are in London tomorrow. We will emphasise that this issue will not just blow over, and we will stress our ongoing concerns and the need for Brunei to provide public assurances. I shall also pass on the very heartfelt views that we have expressed in the House today.
I thank you, Mr Hollobone, for your indulgence in allowing me these additional few seconds.
Oral Answers to Questions
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Hunt
I am happy to do that. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right—we should never recognise the annexation of territory by force. That has been one of the great achievements since the founding of the United Nations. I do that with a very heavy heart, because Israel is an ally and a shining example of democracy in a part of the world where that is not common. We want Israel to be a success, and we consider it to be a great friend, but on this we do not agree.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
If we are to maintain a rules-based international order and strengthen it, the Foreign Secretary will agree that reciprocal arrangements for our constituents when they go abroad or when citizens of other countries come here are absolutely vital. Julie, the niece of my constituent, Deborah Pearson, was killed—murdered—by her ex-partner in Eilat in Israel at the end of 2015. I have raised this with the Foreign Secretary’s predecessors, but we are no further forward. We now know that the police were called five times, but they palmed her off, saying that she was a nuisance. She had 78 bruises on her body, and lost over a litre of blood. Will he meet me so that we can get justice for Julie and Deborah, my constituent?
Mr Hunt
I thank the hon. Lady for raising that case. Obviously, our hearts go out to her constituent’s family over a truly terrible incident. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Asia and the Pacific is very, very happy to meet her and make sure that we are doing everything that we can.
Cyclone Idai
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
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Harriett Baldwin
I take issue with the criticism that this response has been slow. In fact, we were pre-positioning what was needed to relieve the situation in advance of the cyclone. The facts are that it continues to rain very heavily, and a lot of the access by air, water and road is severely hampered. That will be difficult to overcome, and it is at the forefront of the work that our teams on the ground are doing to provide logistic support to this operation.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
I welcome what the Minister has said. As she knows, I chair the all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad and consular services. Of course the focus right now is on humanitarian aid, but can she say a bit about what she can do to support constituents like mine—I have a small Malawian community in my constituency—who have family or friends there and want to travel back, and British nationals who are caught up in this horrendous disaster? What work will be done with local communities? We all have local church groups and community groups who will want to fundraise and support the people of Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe. What will be done to ensure that grassroots community organisations in our constituencies can contribute to support?
Harriett Baldwin
I thank the hon. Lady for her work on the all-party parliamentary group, and I thank everyone in Scotland and the UK for what will no doubt be a very generous response to the emergency that will be declared. I highlight the announcement that the Secretary of State made earlier this week about making it easier for small charities across the UK to access support. There have been a number of requests for a further update when colleagues have had the chance to hear from constituents who have strong links to Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe. I would like to commit to the House to organise an event next Monday for colleagues, once all the casework has come in from their constituencies.
Journalists: International Protection
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(5 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Whittingdale
It is correct that there is a small difference in the figures from RSF and the International Federation. What we all agree is that the figures are extremely worrying and have been going up. That is the reason for the debate. I absolutely join the hon. Lady in calling on the Government to do more. I know the Minister will want to set that out in due course.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
The right hon. Gentleman is being generous with his time. I welcome this debate. Does he agree in the same vein that the Foreign Office has a very serious and important role in the protection of journalists, and that it must do all it can to protect journalists and our citizens wherever they are?
Mr Whittingdale
I agree. I was going to say and probably will say again that I absolutely welcome the Foreign Secretary’s commitment to prioritise this issue and for the UK to take a lead internationally in pressing for more to be done. The hon. Lady’s calls have been heard in the Foreign Office and I hope this will prove an opportunity for the Minister to tell us a little about what is intended.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
The number of Members here despite the magnitude of events in the main Chamber just goes to show the high regard in which we hold international journalists. I do not have time to go through everybody’s contributions, but I congratulate the right hon. Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) on bringing the debate to the House and particularly on his proposals for a UN special representative on the safety of journalists. I think that proposal will garner cross-party support, and I will absolutely add my name to it. I studied media and journalism, and when I was at university I wanted to be a war correspondent—I held the likes of Kate Adie up as absolute stars. I did not realise that dream, but I did end up in another reasonably good job.
Over the holidays, I read Lindsey Hilsum’s book “In Extremis: The Life of War Correspondent Marie Colvin”. Her incredible life is depicted in a film that is about to come out, “A Private War”. The places that Marie reported on included Chechnya, Iraq, Israel and Palestine, Sri Lanka—where she was injured and lost an eye—Syria and Africa. She was, we believe, assassinated in Syria in 2012. She held Martha Gellhorn, who reported the rise of fascism in the 1930s, in high regard; Gellhorn was one of her heroes. The plight of female journalists is a particular issue. As we have seen in recent years, all international journalists are under threat and it is an increasingly dangerous time, but female journalists in particular have had terrible experiences.
In an address that Marie Colvin gave at St Bride’s church on Fleet Street when she returned from Afghanistan, she reflected on the injury suffered by a colleague who stepped on a landmine and had to have both legs amputated. She said:
“The expectation of that blast is the stuff of nightmares.”
I want to share with the House something else that she said:
“We always have to ask ourselves whether the level of risk is worth the story. What is bravery, and what is bravado?”
Lindsey Hilsum wrote about Marie’s determination to bear witness and its importance. She said that Marie was
“the champion of bearing witness so that even if no one stopped the wars, they could never say they had not known what was happening.”
That goes to the heart of the issue. Marie’s death, or assassination, in 2012 was a tragedy not only for her family and friends, but for journalism and the truth. Her ability to report and bear witness was vital.
Journalists are our eyes and ears on the international stage. They go where we cannot. They see what we cannot see. They hear what we cannot hear. That is particularly important for politicians. There is often a relationship of conflict between journalists and politicians, but we must hold them in the highest regard—indeed, cherish them—because their accounts help to direct our decisions about aid and about troops and intervention. Without them, we are blind to the great atrocities that, as we have heard, many Governments and regimes are visiting upon their own people and other nations.
If we do not protect international journalists, if we do not protect their integrity and their safety, we risk becoming detached and distanced. I want and hope to hear from the Minister what more we can do, particularly from a Foreign Office perspective, because as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad and consular services and assistance, I have interviewed a number of partners of those who have been incarcerated, including Richard Ratcliffe, the husband of Nazanin Zaghari, and Daniela, the wife of Matthew Hedges, who was studying in the United Arab Emirates. Their experiences are unbelievable. We must remember that academics and researchers are just as important as journalists. We must be able to protect them, and we must not fall foul of the trade relationships that we may have with countries coming above the diplomatic relationships that we have, in protecting journalists and others who in order to tell stories travel to places where we cannot go.
Bob Stewart
On a point of order, Mr Bailey. I am so sorry, but I was flustered when I spoke and I want to correct the record. Tihomir Tunuković, whose body I picked up, was killed on Sunday 1 November, not on 20 October. I hope that the record can be amended accordingly.
Oral Answers to Questions
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(6 years ago)
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Leo Docherty (Aldershot) (Con)
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
Mr Hunt
It is difficult to know the answer to that question, because what has bedevilled these talks to date is that both sides have thought that a military victory is possible. This is the first time for two years that the parties have come round a table together. I do think that the mood has changed, so we want to do everything we can to support it.
Hannah Bardell
The UN says that more than 60% of civilian deaths have been the result of Saudi-led airstrikes. Will the UK Government therefore confirm that they will undertake any and all measures to ensure that Saudi Arabia is no longer armed and trained by the UK and that every impression is made on it to reach an agreement that means that no more Yemeni civilians die at its hands?
Mr Hunt
With respect to the hon. Lady, whose views I listen to carefully, it is important to remember that the cause of this conflict was the illegal taking over of power in Yemen by the Houthis, and the Saudi military offensive was authorised by resolution 2216. We have a relationship with Saudi Arabia, which we are using to encourage it to do everything possible to come round the table to talk about peace.
Jagtar Singh Johal
Hannah Bardell Excerpts(6 years ago)
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Martin Docherty-Hughes
If I had the answer to that, we would not need to have this debate on the Floor of the House today. I wish the young gentleman who has been released all the very best in their future. The clear issue is that my constituent is yet to appear in court and makes an accusation of torture. The similarity is glaring; my constituent’s situation is profound. I am sure that the Minister may wish to consider my hon. Friend’s question when responding.
Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)
My hon. Friend has done an incredible job of making representations on his constituent’s behalf. The details of the alleged torture are horrific. The all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad and consular services was set up to understand why people who die abroad or are incarcerated illegally do not have the representation that they deserve from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Does he agree that the challenge between diplomatic relations and consular services is something that we must look into more and that the Government must do everything they can to address, to ensure that Jagtar is released and gets proper representation and due process?
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I will not disagree with my hon. Friend. Interestingly, over the last few weeks the BBC has decided to run a programme that is, I suppose, trumpeting the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and, critically, the staff who work there—the vast majority of whom do a very good job; I am sure that there are some in the advisers’ Box. Their commitment, which I will go into in more detail later, is second to none. I must be clear that I have much respect for the Minister of State at the Dispatch Box, and am grateful for their personal engagement and support on this issue. However, right at the top of the FCO there are very serious concerns about investment.
When the BBC shows next week’s episode of how wonderful the FCO is—it will cover consular support, which has been mentioned—I do hope it gets to the nitty-gritty regarding the FCO teams on the ground. I am not saying that these teams are making it up on the hoof, but they are having to work with situations as they emerge without what I would consider to be a proper framework like those used by teams in the United States and other Commonwealth nations.
I hope to make some progress, because the fact that the Adjournment was moved early means that I could technically talk until about quarter past 7.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I am certainly not going to disagree, because I think everybody is boasting about their diplomatic successes against the UK at the moment in a most dreadful sense, and that should concern us all.
The epitome of the approach was seen in the recent appearance of Indian Deputy High Commissioner Dinesh Patnaik on the BBC Asian Network in January, when he breezily said that
“Jagtar will be charged and he has not been subject to torture”,
despite the lack of any public investigation by the authorities of the Republic of India and the fact that no charges were laid before the courts, basically, for more than six months. These realities must be passed on if people are to understand the true nature of what is happening. Such comments have led many to conclude that due process has been overlooked, if not intentionally undermined, and that many have already made up their mind about my constituent’s innocence or guilt—something that is utterly unacceptable to me, I am sure to the Minister and I hope to Members in all parts of the House.
Hannah Bardell
My hon. Friend is being very generous in giving way. Just to take him back very briefly to the point about media and press coverage, there are some significant parallels with the case of my constituent Kirsty Maxwell, who was, we believe, killed abroad, in Spain. The stress it causes to the family when there is misreporting and misinformation in the media and often the lack of support from the FCO—I appreciate that there are significant challenges—is something that we absolutely must address. I commend my hon. Friend for the comments he has made and the challenge he has offered to the Indian press in regard to his constituent.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. On the media and differing approaches, since I was first elected to this House in 2015, I have had to deal with several cases of consular support, where media intrusion has had a detrimental impact on the cases. That is true not just in Jagtar’s case. I am mindful of the case of my constituent Lisa Brown, who has been missing in Spain—we presume murdered—and the distress caused to her family by some of the ways in which the media approached that case. It is the same for many Members who have constituents who have died or are in detention abroad.
I can only hope that the publicity generated by this debate will leave the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in no doubt that it must not relent in its efforts to ensure that all these elements—transparency over the torture allegation; due process; the assumption of innocence until proven guilty; and the rule of law in ensuring that all allegations are dealt with appropriately—are addressed by the Government of the Republic of India. The family and I expect the FCO to fulfil these duties. Critically, at some point down the line, we may eventually be able to have a trade agreement with the Republic of India. What type of trade will we have where we might sacrifice our ability to defend democracy and its pillars for free trade?
Let me touch on elements away from Jagtar’s case that give me cause for concern. The job of a Member of Parliament gives you the privilege and the challenge of representing all your constituents, and this often means offering assistance when they have had adverse experiences abroad. As I have said, Jagtar’s case is not the only one that I have seen up close with the FCO. Although I have found the overwhelming majority of those who work in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to be professional, dedicated and diligent representatives of their organisation—I cannot name them, but they have heard me say this—they are dealing with structures and resources that often do not allow them to give the level of service they would hope to. That can cause a large amount of frustration for family members and create a vicious cycle of misunderstanding and failed expectation.
When Jagtar’s brother and I hear a Minister of the Crown say from the Dispatch Box that they will take “extreme action”, we do not immediately appreciate—none of us would—that the staff at the sharp end of that action will be under-resourced, poorly supported and left at the whims of the politicians who lead that organisation. My hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) shone a light on that in her work on the all-party group on deaths abroad and consular services. I am sure Members across the House will agree that this vital work should improve the experiences of our constituents, should they find themselves in the same position as Jagtar’s family.
We all appreciate that we are in the middle of the greatest upheaval in this political state’s foreign policy since 1921. If Members do not know what happened to what was then the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1921-22, they should go to the Library. It has been all too often left unsaid in our present predicament that a “global Britain” of any sort must be properly resourced and that resources must not be to the detriment of consular services across the globe. Ensuring a consistent service, allowing the best practice, which we know exists in the FCO, and listening to the thousands of dedicated, diligent and professional staff across the globe to ensure that families who experience the worst are given a clear but compassionate idea of the roles of the FCO and the responsibilities it has towards them, would make a world of difference. They are not asking for huge elements of massive investment; they are asking for clarity and a process that we can all agree on.
Families such as Jagtar’s appreciate that there is no simple way to assuage their concerns, and that the efforts made by Ministers cannot always be made public or be shared with them. The family and I appreciate the efforts of the Prime Minister in raising the case with her counterpart, Prime Minister Modi, in April, but I am sure the Minister appreciates that we are wondering why it is still necessary to be asking many of the same questions as we were a year ago through an Adjournment debate on the Floor of the House of Commons.
You may be glad to know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I am going to start bringing my remarks to a close.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
With that, my hon. Friend would like to intervene. I will certainly give way.
Hannah Bardell
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Does he share my concern about properly resourcing and training our consular staff? They do a very difficult job in some of the most challenging circumstances, but they will be facing up to £1 billion of cuts in the coming financial year. Add to that the challenge of Brexit, and our FCO needs the support of this Government and its Ministers to ensure that our constituents are properly represented when they get into challenges or trouble abroad.
Martin Docherty-Hughes
I am not going to disagree with my hon. Friend. There is a resource issue. One of the FCO’s greatest resources is its members of staff. They have knowledge and capacity. No matter what I think of the constitutional position of this country, they are diligent professionals in their jobs.
Mark Field
As the hon. Gentleman will know, I always try to work on a cross-party basis, particularly on these very difficult matters. For those who are interested in the BBC programme on the Foreign Office, I believe that Thursday’s programme will talk about a particular consular case from Cambodia—my part of the world—on which half a dozen MPs on a cross-party basis expressed particular concerns.
Let me try to respond to many of the points that have been raised. I undertake to write to those whose questions I may not be in a position to answer fully.
Hannah Bardell
Before the right hon. Gentleman comes to those points, I say gently to him that when I set up the all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad and consular services, I could not have imagined the impact that it would have on me and my staff, who have heard evidence from over 50 families. I cannot imagine what it is like for the family of someone who has died abroad, been incarcerated, held prisoner or gone missing. I say to the right hon. Gentleman, on a personal basis, that the testimonies of those families have highlighted to me that there are significant challenges and failings, and I believe that there are areas on which we can work together across the House, because almost every Member has had such a constituency case. I hope that he will give a commitment today to work with me and the all-party group to fix some of those issues and look for solutions to make sure that no family has to go through what Jagtar’s family—or any of the other families that we have heard evidence from—have had to go through.
Mark Field
I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. While I inevitably cannot make a guarantee that no other families will go through some of these difficulties, I am clearly only too happy to work with her. Unfortunately, it is the nature of being a Foreign Office Minister that in the past 18 months, I have met several families—not constituents of mine, but of other hon. Members—who have been through the harrowing experiences to which she referred.