End of Radio Teleswitch Service: Rural Areas
Dave Doogan Excerpts(2 weeks, 5 days ago)
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Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
I am pleased to raise the issue of the radio teleswitch service decommissioning in the House this evening. This is a pressured and important matter for 4,665 households in my constituency, a further 80,000 households across the north of Scotland and fully 800,000 households across Great Britain. The ending of the radio teleswitch service, or RTS, which controls “total heating with total control” meters, is of vital importance to electric-only customers and yet remains a troubled landscape to some extent.
RTS is a radio signal that tells “total heating with total control” meters when to switch between peak and off-peak rates, and this obsolete system will come to an end on 30 June 2025. It was originally going to cease on 31 March 2024, but that had to be pushed back because the system was not ready. That should have been when alarm bells started to ring.
Customers are being asked to switch to smart meters, and Energy UK, the trade body for energy suppliers, has advised customers what could happen if they do not:
“You may find that your heating and/or hot water is continually left on or off, or the charging-up happens at the wrong time of day. Your electricity supplier won’t be able to confirm how much electricity you have used during peak or off-peak times, which means your electricity costs could be much higher than before.”
However accurate that message might be, it could easily be a source of alarm for customers. Any of us who have had the misfortune to have electric-only heating will realise that even with the discounted rates, it is still ferociously expensive, so the idea that anyone could have it without the discounted rates is simply not realistic.
Graham Leadbitter (Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey) (SNP)
Like my hon. Friend, I have significant concerns about the end of RTS in rural Scotland. Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey has a disproportionate number of RTS meters, and I include myself in that statistic. My own experience with OVO Energy and switching to a smart meter from RTS has left a lot to be desired. I have had several telephone conversations with OVO representatives as a private customer regarding the RTS switchover. The main question I had during those phone calls was, “If I switch, will I be better or worse off, or paying the same as I am now for electricity?” I had to push extremely hard to get a straight answer to that. If that is the difficulty I am experiencing, as someone who is experienced in assisting constituents with this very issue, does my hon. Friend share my concern about how more vulnerable people, who may feel immense pressure from operators installing new meters, will be impacted?
Dave Doogan
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He has raised a couple of points. One is really important, and that is whether or not customers have an option. They actually do not have a realistic option. The radio teleswitch service is coming to an end at the end of June next year, and they will not want to be in the position where they do not have a smart meter that can toggle between a reduced-rate tariff and a full-price tariff. That would be ruinously expensive.
My hon. Friend also touched on the communication, and the quality thereof, that supply companies are having with their customers. One of the reasons that the uptake is so slow is that people do not have confidence in smart meters—and why would they? There were plenty of problems with the smart meter roll-out just for regular electricity customers who want to know how much electricity they are using. The stakes are far higher for electric-only customers who heat their homes with electricity. They need confidence that their smart meter will actually work. I will come on to that point in a second.
Seamus Logan (Aberdeenshire North and Moray East) (SNP)
My hon. Friend mentioned Energy UK, and my hon. Friend the Member for Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey (Graham Leadbitter) mentioned the number of people in his constituency who use the service. I think it is in the region of 3,000 in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East. Those people need clarity about what is going to happen. Does my hon. Friend agree that households need clarity on these proposals, and that the Government should use all means available to them to ensure that the roll-out is fair and that reassurance is provided to customers?
Dave Doogan
The operative word of my hon. Friend’s intervention was “fair”, and I will come on to exactly who owns the risk.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
In my discussion beforehand with the hon. Gentleman, I mentioned what I would be referring to in this intervention. We have similar issues in Northern Ireland, so does the hon. Gentleman agree that the needs of rural areas need to be taken into consideration? The current cost of living crisis centres on an energy crisis, so we need to ensure that people are not paying more because they are unaware of the steps that need to be taken to deal with this change.
Dave Doogan
The hon. Gentleman is right that Northern Ireland is a different energy market from Great Britain, but there will be, without question, electric-only customers in the larger settlements of Northern Ireland. I know that Northern Ireland is a heavy user of heating oil, but the same scenario will exist in Northern Ireland. Although it is a different energy market, the same Department has to have oversight of the equity and effectiveness of whatever solution is found for that part of the United Kingdom.
Constituents have contacted me with concerns that they are being asked to switch to a smart meter without a guarantee that the smart meter will work properly. Some customers with poor reception who have switched to a smart meter are being asked by their supplier to submit manual readings. It is not clear whether manual readings are compatible with alternative economy tariffs, as these are based not only on how much energy is used, but on when that energy is used.
The Data Communications Company manages smart meter networks, which can reach 99.3% of properties, and more than half of homes in GB are already connected. Information is transmitted over a wide area network using mobile phone or radio signals sent from each property’s communications hub, but the method of transmission differs. In central and southern GB, smart meter data is transmitted using cellular and wireless mesh technology provided by Virgin Media O2, whereas in the north of England and all of Scotland it is transmitted over long-range radio signals provided by Arqiva.
It would be safe to say that there remains substantial concern about the ability to have two-way communication between supplier and customer over this system. This is no small part of the reason for the hesitancy common among “total heating with total control” customers to rush towards the need to switch.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
The hon. Gentleman has touched on the fact that radio teleswitching is going. It is an analogue technology, and we will be fortunate if it lasts until next June—it could collapse at any second. It will be replaced by smart meters, and surely it is not beyond the wit of man to design a smart meter that provides something like “total heating with total control”. They do not at present, but that is just because they are not designed to do so. Is it not the case that this could be fixed if the regulator got the companies and the different players together and told them to produce something that suits the customers, not just themselves?
Dave Doogan
The right hon. Gentleman will have no small number of these customers in his constituency, and he touches on the important point of the vagueness around this. Customers are being told that they must do this, and when they ask for any detail about that which they must do, it is scant, vague and conflicting.
We only have to look at the forums on the energy company websites and on Facebook to see that peer-to-peer support is answering people’s questions on this issue, rather than there being a cohesive and comprehensive programme of information from the Government, the Department, the regulator and the energy companies, working in concert in a professional and coherent way to let customers know exactly what is going to happen.
On the speed of the roll-out, the energy suppliers, the UK Government and consumer groups have committed to co-operating to replace RTS meters prior to the shutdown, which is a pretty minimal commitment. The 10 energy companies that have pledged their participation are: British Gas, EDF, E.ON, Octopus, Ovo, Scottish Power, So Energy, SSE, Total Energies, Utilita and Utility Warehouse.
Through its call to action, the industry has committed to several measures, including zeroing in on regional hot spots with the highest number of RTS customers. That is good but it is late. The industry has a catch-up job in public relations and customer confidence, which it needs to accept and resource. The industry has committed to expediting meter upgrades for RTS customers, giving prioritisation to vulnerable customers for upgrades, co-operating to solve technical issues, and pooling knowledge and expertise across companies. This should not be a competitive commercial endeavour; it should be a call to action across energy companies.
Different houses are wired up in different ways to accommodate “total heating, total control.” They will interact differently with smart meters when they are fitted, which needs to be reconciled. The industry has committed to issuing monthly reports on meter replacement. I urge right hon. and hon. Members to focus on those monthly updates, because the problem we have is that if we continue to replace RTS meters at the current rate, that will take until 2028, when we only have until June 2025. That is why my constituents and I are so concerned.
To be fair, the industry is also concerned. It wants the transition to work because it wants its customers to be supplied and to be paid for that supply. The industry is not trying to make this not happen—quite the opposite—but we need to change gear and pace. Industry is confident that it has the capacity to deliver for every home, but not if all those homes come forward in April, May and June. That will not work, which is why we need a call to action now. We are into December and nothing will happen before the new year, so we need to ensure that we hit the ground running in January with this matter as a priority.
I made sure the Minister had advance sight of my questions, so she could respond at the end of the debate. Is she confident that all properties will have a smart meter installed by the deadline? What options are available to RTS customers with poor or no mobile signal, or no ability to receive the radio signal at their property? Will there be an option in extremis, when it is demonstrated that the signal cannot be received at the property, for the customer to have some type of timer solution, with or without a smart meter?
Will a standard tariff be ruled out as an option, given that it would be ruinously expensive for any customer? What action has been taken with industry to ensure that customers receive a tariff at the same rate or better than that which they had on their “total heating, total control” rate? That is a key concern for my constituents.
What steps will the Government take to ensure that the electrical system, and the statutory and commercial entities that control that electrical system, will carry the risk for inflated bills as a result of the changes? Consumers have no responsibility whatsoever for the functioning of the electricity system so, by any measure of justice, they should not be exposed to the financial risk of a system that no longer works and is being replaced by one that is more expensive. That should not happen.
Miatta Fahnbulleh
Yes, I am very keen to reconvene that. It is absolutely essential that we work with hon. Members across the House who represent constituencies that we know will be affected. From our perspective, we have a big job to engage consumers to ensure that they are aware and that the transition is working. We are keen to work across the House to do that.
One of the outcomes of the roundtable that was put in place was that the taskforce has been established—with Ofgem, industry and the Government—to manage the transition and to put and inject the urgency that we need to see in the ongoing process. In October, the industry signed up to a call to action, representing a collective agreement to take the steps needed to speed the transition away from RTS. Specific actions that were included in that call for action are: targeting of resources towards regional hotspots where we know there are a high number of RTS customers and we know that we need to do work to reach them; fast-tracking of meter upgrades for RTS customers and, in particular, vulnerable customers who we are very worried about; and collaboration on some of the technical solutions that we know are needed.
We are clear that the delivery of the transition away from RTS requires active engagement with consumers, as they will need to agree to appointments, collaborate with their installers and ensure that they have the right solutions in place.
Dave Doogan
Does the Minister agree that there needs to be a change of tone and language? It is all very well for the Government, the regulator or the companies to feel the urgency, but if customers do not sense that, we will not get the pace that is required. She talks about how it is a big job, and we can all agree on that. It is a big job that needs to be completed in very little time, so it is not just about the scale but about the pace. If we cannot get customers energised and exercised about the need to get that done, that pace will not happen.
Miatta Fahnbulleh
I completely agree with the hon. Member. We have said to suppliers that they must inform all affected customers by 31 December to make sure that we are injecting that sense of urgency, both within the supply chain and, critically, among customers. There is a collective job for us all to make sure that those who are affected are aware that this is happening. That is why this debate is so important. That is why I am keen to engage with Members from across the House to ensure that we are getting that message out to constituents.
Critically, the taskforce has been asked to establish working partnerships with local authorities, housing providers and other customer-facing organisations, so that we can get the word out that this is happening, that customers need to engage and that they must get in touch with their suppliers so we can provide the best possible options for them as we move forward.
COP29
Dave Doogan Excerpts(3 weeks, 6 days ago)
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Ed Miliband
My hon. Friend makes an important point. We are working—through my Department and the Office for Clean Energy Jobs—with Skills England to ensure that we have that workforce plan. There are huge job opportunities here. We must ensure that we have the workforce plan, and that people have the assurance that work will be properly regulated and they can expect high standards. This is a massive national mission, and we will come forward with more proposals on it in the coming months.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
We learned three things from the statement. The first is that the climate finance will come from the existing UK aid budget. Can the Secretary of State reassure the House that the increase in the UK aid budget will be greater than the amount that has gone on climate finance, so that we can be confident that we are not robbing Peter to pay Paul in the developed world? Do the important agreements on deforestation mean that the UK will stop spending almost £11 billion on subsidies to burn trees in England to generate electricity—is that one of the important elements that he talked about on deforestation? He claimed in his statement that GB Energy is set up. Can he tell us where we can go and see it? [Laughter.]
Oral Answers to Questions
Dave Doogan Excerpts(1 month, 1 week ago)
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Miatta Fahnbulleh
I am aware that many households have had upgrades that have not gone to plan. It is critical that we build confidence, because in the end we need to persuade consumers up and down the country to have these upgrades. There were schemes under the last Administration that were not regulated and did not have the correct standards, and we are working hard to make sure that we raise standards across the piece.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
We are going to need a warm homes plan, because with the snow and ice coming in on a cold front, Scotland is seeing a “sum front” heading north from this Labour Government: a £600 cut to the winter fuel payment and the pensioners’ cost of living payment—for winter weather that is here now. That was not in the manifesto. What was in the manifesto was a £300 cut to fuel bills, but those costs are now up by £450. When will this Government do a single thing for people facing fuel poverty?
Miatta Fahnbulleh
We will work across the country to tackle fuel poverty, but I remind the hon. Member that fuel payments are devolved. The Scottish Government have been given the biggest budget, and it is time to get on with the job and fix the situation.
Great British Energy Bill
Dave Doogan ExcerptsTuesday 29th October 2024
(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
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Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
I rise to speak in support of amendment 1, in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn), and amendment 5, tabled by the Liberal Democrats.
I am supportive of the Bill in the abstract, and I am certainly supportive of its headline ambitions, like many Members, but I trust that the Minister is hearing what the House is saying today about the substantive lack of information and detail, and the troubling direction of travel, which will place significant executive authority in the hands of the Secretary of State in discharging GB Energy’s responsibilities.
It is a pity, too, that the attrition to the original budget of £28 billion has nearly quartered it to £8 billion. I hope that the jobs associated with this implied investment do not go the same way as the budget, before they get the chance to take root in the north-east of Scotland and support my constituents and many others in that part of the country. It is a shame that the only person appointed to GB Energy is not working in Scotland at all. I am not sure that was on the script going into the election, but it seems to be what has happened afterwards.
Amendment 1 from the SNP asks the Labour Government to deliver upon what they said they would do ahead of the election. That does not strike me as particularly unreasonable. I do not think our amendment will be selected for separate decision, so I think we will be forced to vote with amendment 6 in the name of the right hon. Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho), which asks for basically the same thing. [Interruption.] The Minister is getting very excited. Of course, we would not have had to table an amendment if the Labour party had just put the measure in the Bill. It was in the leaflets, so I do not know why it was not in the Bill. It is also no longer £300 that we need to see reduced from hard-pressed working people’s bills. Since Labour made that claim, bills have gone up by £149, so the Government will need to get £449 off people’s bills before they can get back to where they started, certainly in terms of them having any credibility.
The Liberal Democrats have a well-worded and noble ambition on community energy, and the SNP would have been pleased to support it. One of the things missing from GB Energy is a statutory responsibility to develop and accelerate community energy at pace in a measured fashion. Referring back to my opening remarks, I am supportive of the Bill’s outline ambitions, but I am worried about the lack of detail. The more we discuss and debate the Bill, the more I am concerned that GB Energy will end up doing lots of things that nobody particularly needed it to do, because they were all done by a department within the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.
What we do not have is what people want GB Energy to do. We do want it to generate energy independently and to have an effect on the energy market in the United Kingdom. We do want it to sell energy to the retail market. We do want it to buy community energy from community energy generators and to introduce it into the market. And we do want it to enable community energy and to lower bills.
Ms Billington
All the things that the hon. Gentleman mentioned are exactly what GB Energy will do. There is literally no reason why he cannot go through the Lobby with Labour Members this evening, because the Great British Energy Bill will do all the things he has asked for it to do. It is nothing to do with sucking up the energy of the civil servants doing policy; that is a completely different role, and they will continue their work.
Dave Doogan
I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, but I politely disagree. No amount of emphasis on her part will change the detail in the Bill, and that is what MPs are concerned about.
Dave Doogan
No, I am going to make progress.
The Minister has advised us that GB Energy will not seek to displace foreign-owned energy companies but will instead crowd in investment. In reference to the previously mentioned £300 bill reduction, he has also said that GB Energy will play a role in lowering bills but that that will not happen immediately. When he sums up, perhaps he can tell us when that will be, because it is not unreasonable for people to hear that ambition and to want to see a timeline attached to it. I also mentioned the attrition in GB Energy’s funding. Given its now drastically reduced funding, will the Minister advise us what challenges he sees GB Energy facing?
When the Secretary of State was in opposition, he often made big play of the fact that there is a nationalised energy industry in the United Kingdom but that none of it is owned by the United Kingdom—it is all foreign. It seems a little odd that there is not the ambition, now that he is actually in power, to deliver that ownership.
Luke Murphy
Could the hon. Member update the House on the progress of the SNP Government’s commitment in 2017 to create a publicly owned energy company by 2021?
Dave Doogan
He can indeed. The hon. Member may think he is being terribly smart—he is a self-professed expert in the energy market—but he will know how difficult it is for someone to penetrate the UK energy market unless they happen to be a large plc or a multinational. When the Scottish Government took forward that noble ambition, they found precisely the same barriers to entry as community energy companies and trusts. If the hon. Member wants to get excited about that situation, I suggest he takes it up with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.
Mr Angus MacDonald
Will the hon. Gentleman explain why the SNP Government have left community benefit at the same £5,000 level it was in 2014, even though prices have gone through the roof? Their advisory information could have been changed. They have been pressed on the issue many times because it has severely damaged the income of rural communities.
Dave Doogan
I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman is driving at, but if he wants to get in touch with me after the debate, I will be happy to discuss it further.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. We are debating the amendments to the Bill, not SNP policy.
Dave Doogan
Well, indeed.
Will the Minister advise us whether we are talking about GB electricity or GB energy? I would be keen to know what investments and ambition this supposedly state-owned company—I have to grit my teeth when I say that, because it is actually little more than a trading fund—will be involved in? Will it be involved in carbon capture, utilisation and storage? Will it be involved in attenuated hydro? Will it be involved in pumped storage, geothermal or hydrogen? What are the limits of GB Energy? That is not in the Bill, and we do not understand what it will deliver. As other hon. Members have asked, what is the Government’s ambition on GB Energy when it comes to Grangemouth? Is it just limited to the common or garden production of electricity?
I will not vote with the Government on the Bill. I do not want to condemn it as an election prop that is now desperately looking for some sort of function—I hope it amounts to more than that—but I will vote for the amendments, and so will my colleagues, to try to make some sense of the Bill.
Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)
The Bill’s job is to set up a new and unique public energy company, to work within the clear objects set out in clause 3(2)—not simply as an investment bank, but as part of a developing strategy for renewables across the UK.
Cornwall, where I am from, is set to benefit hugely from the investment from GB Energy into unblocking floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea, which will create jobs. Cornwall was post-industrial a long time ago, and we need the kind of investment that GB Energy can bring. We also have a strong local area energy plan, which is an integral part of Cornwall’s renewable energy offer. It has co-operative, community and local authority energy as part of that plan, and as a Co-operative MP I support the local power plan that the Government are proposing, which will be part of GB Energy. We could have partnerships for deep geothermal energy on council land, which would bring potential for partnerships with local authorities and others. In Cornwall we have had numerous community energy schemes, such as the one in Ladock at the end of last Labour Government, before the Conservatives cut the schemes and the feed-in tariffs. We could invest in infrastructure with GB Energy, in partnership with the Crown Estate, for the cables, the grid and, potentially, even the ports.
The Bill offers a huge opportunity. There is so much that GB Energy can do in future as part of a developing strategy to secure clean energy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, as it says in the Bill. As its ambitions and horizons expand, in partnership with the Crown Estate and others, so too must its object and its strategy be able to expand.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Michael Shanks)
I thank all Members who have made contributions to the debate, and I am grateful for all the points raised in Committee. I thank the witnesses who gave their time to the Committee, as well as the Clerks, House staff and civil servants, who put so much work into legislation such as this. I apologise to the House in advance both for the speed of my speaking and the speed with which I will have to go through the amendments—there is not a huge amount of time left.
First, I want to highlight the three maiden speeches that we have heard today. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Natalie Fleet) gave an incredibly emotional speech, and spoke passionately about the importance of the state having an impact on people’s lives. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Adam Thompson) for telling us, apart from anything else, how to pronounce his constituency, and to the hon. Member for Dewsbury and Batley (Iqbal Mohamed), who I am sure will at least receive a Blue Peter badge in the post for his speech.
Great British Energy is at the heart of our clean power mission, and the Bill provides the statutory basis for it, enabling the Government to deliver on the ambitions that we set out during the election and that the country voted for so resoundingly just a few months ago. Let me turn to the amendments. New clause 1, in the name of the right hon. Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho), would create additional reporting mechanisms for Great British Energy. I agree with her that Great British Energy should be accountable, transparent and open in all its dealings and in how it delivers a return on investment. That is why we have made provision in the Bill to ensure that regular updates are given in the form of annual reports and accounts, which will be laid before Parliament for all Members to review. Of course, as a company, it will undergo external audit in the usual manner. As I outlined in Committee, my view remains that adding additional requirements at such frequent intervals is disproportionate and will stop the company from getting on with delivering its mission.
On amendments 6 and 7 in the name of the right hon. Member for East Surrey, and amendment 1 in the name of the right hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Stephen Flynn), every family and business in this country has paid the price for our dependence on fossil fuels during the cost of living crisis. Speeding up the roll-out of clean energy is the only way to get our country off the rollercoaster of volatile international gas markets and to protect families from future energy shocks. That is the argument that the Conservative party used to support but that it seems increasingly to distance itself from, as it has with so many principled positions.
Michael Shanks
I do not have time, I am afraid.
We are unapologetic that Great British Energy is a long-term project for this country, as part of a sustainable, long-term plan to protect bill payers for good. I stand by that commitment today. However, I also say, as we have said about so much of the mess that we have to clean up, that we cannot simply flick a switch and turn everything around, which is why these amendments are inappropriate. Conservative Members would never have made such amendments to a Bill when they were in government.
Let me turn to the amendments on jobs and industrial strategy. The Government are clear that clean energy is the economic and industrial opportunity of our time. Around the world, a race for jobs and industries of the future is speeding up, but for too long Britain has opted out and lost out. Great British Energy is at the heart of our plan to change that. It will help to rebuild the UK’s industrial heartlands through its investments across every part of the UK, and locating Great British Energy’s headquarters in Aberdeen will tap into the high-quality talent pool of Aberdeen and Scotland as a whole. We will use every tool at our disposal to win jobs for Britain. We have established the office for clean energy jobs, and are focused on developing the skills of the future, so that we have a workforce that can deliver what we need in future. Crucially, it is why the Government are, as many hon. Members have said, committed to a proper industrial strategy.
The amendments tabled by the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Pippa Heylings) relate to the timeline for establishing Great British Energy, to energy efficiency and to community energy. Although I welcome and, frankly, share the hon. Member’s eagerness to get Great British Energy up and running as quickly as possible, we will not be supporting amendment 3. The Government have already shown themselves to be committed to setting up Great British Energy as quickly as possible, and there will be no further delays in doing so. Indeed, of all the things that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State could be accused of, not moving quickly is not one of them.
Michael Shanks
I do not have time—I have a minute in which to finish.
I hope the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire will recognise that there is really no need to put an amendment such as this one on the face of the Bill. Turning to her amendment on the topic of community energy, she will know, however, that I am passionate about community energy, as are the Government. It will form an integral part of Great British Energy’s local power plan, which will put communities at the heart of the energy transition, giving them a stake in the shift to net zero. As a member of not just the Labour party but the Co-operative party, that is at the heart of my politics and that of many of my hon. Friends. We have been advocating for community energy for decades—this is not a new idea for us—and empowering communities is critical. The hon. Lady and I share that passion and a commitment to community energy.
I can assure the House that the Department is looking to take a cross-government approach—not just through Great British Energy but, crucially, on a number of the points that have been made—to ensuring that community energy projects can be delivered, with all the changes to planning and governance that are required to make that happen. I always want to work with Members across this House, and have done so throughout the passage of the Bill. We continue to engage with the Liberal Democrats and other interested parties on this important issue, exploring options to ensure the Bill has the effects they are seeking. I look forward to further such discussions in the weeks and months ahead. I hope all who have tabled or spoken to amendments today will feel reassured by what I have outlined—albeit considerably more briefly than I was expecting—and will perhaps feel able to withdraw, or not move, their amendments.
This is a truly historic Bill, delivering on the Government’s promise to establish a new national, publicly owned energy champion for our country. It has been a privilege to take it through Committee, and I repeat my sincere thanks to everyone involved in that process. Great British Energy is the right idea for energy security, for bills, for jobs, and for delivering the climate leadership that the people of this country demand of their Government. It is the right idea for our time, hugely supported by the British public, and I urge all Members of the House to support it this evening.
Carbon Capture, Usage and Storage
Dave Doogan Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Ed Miliband
I thank my hon. Friend for that question and for her brilliant advocacy on this issue. She raises an important point, which is that people will look at this investment and think that it is a big investment, albeit over 25 years. Is it the right thing to do for the country? Emphatically, yes. It is right for our industries and for the industries of the future, because the transport and storage networks are absolutely crucial, not just for the specific projects I have announced but for future projects, for our security as a country and for jobs in our industrial heartland. I thank her for her advocacy and we will keep moving forward on this.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
The Secretary of State says he is absolutely committed to the Acorn project. Well, the way to show that would be to fund it, because yet again the UK Government have failed to announce funding for carbon capture utilisation and storage projects in Scotland. This is a disaster economically, industrially and environmentally. I am sure he will agree that without Acorn, the UK cannot meet its net zero targets and will miss them by some margin. The last Tory Government failed to back this project in Scotland for years, and despite offering change, Labour has done exactly the same thing, following the same path with broadly the same budget and prioritising less developed, less substantial and less deliverable projects in England while offering the Scottish cluster no funding at all to date. People in Scotland remember well how eager the Treasury and the Westminster Government were to get their hands on revenues from North sea oil and gas. When will we see that returned with investment from Westminster into the north-east of Scotland to support the Acorn project?
Ed Miliband
I am sorry about the hon. Gentleman’s tone, but it is entirely predictable. He knows that there have always been two tracks. This Government have moved at speed to fund track 1, and I have made absolutely clear our commitment to Acorn and track 2.
Great British Energy Bill
Dave Doogan ExcerptsThursday 5th September 2024
(3 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham) on a really wonderful maiden speech. It is heartening to see how much love and passion she has for her adopted home in Cornwall—and who does not like Cornwall? I am sure her constituents will be tremendously well served by the passion we saw just now.
The Government must accept that the messaging around GB Energy was muddled at the very least during the election. It was almost as though it was rushed through as a manifesto headline, rather than resulting from the strategic development of careful, thought-out, optimised planning, but there we are. We understand that there will be limited co-production from the company, no retail arm and no public sector comparator role. It will be a provider that does not do much provision and a decider that does not make any decisions. Talk about net zero—there is zero detail in the Bill to give us an indication of what will actually happen on the ground. It was going to sell energy to the public, and then it was not. It was going to generate energy. Then it was not, and now it will again. I think we are still in that space.
I heard in the Secretary of State’s opening remarks that there has now been a modification to the brand: it is now GB Energy generating company. The “generating” bit has been shoehorned in there at the last minute to try to make it a little bit more believable. It that will not own any assets outright, but will make a return on the sale of energy from the wholesale market by the principal operator of the energy schemes it latches itself on to. Well, I can see why the Labour part never put that on a leaflet—goodness me. Why is it not considered a Government trading fund? It is not a company; it is a Government trading fund that they are branding as a company. It absolutely meets all the criteria of the Government Trading Funds Act 1973, so it would be interesting to know why that is.
I do not doubt the Secretary of State’s commitment in this area. I have seen it over the past five years. I am sorry that his initial, much more ambitious plans for £28 billion have been torpedoed by the Treasury and his right hon. Friend the Chancellor. If he is feeling sorry for himself, he can speak to the millions of pensioners around these islands whose ambitions for the future have also been torpedoed by the Chancellor and the Treasury.
On a substantive note about the lack of detail in the Bill, it is a great pity that the Government want us to believe that clean energy means energy produced from sources other than fossil fuels. It is hard to imagine a more one-dimensional analysis and qualification than that. It is narrow and incoherent, and out of step with the science and the public. It does not really matter where or what carbon is locked into. If you burn it to release carbon dioxide in the process of making energy, then you are a carbon emitter contributing to the climate crisis. It is as simple as that. We should not be hostage to a technology where hundreds of millions of pounds in Government subsidies are used to create millions of tonnes of CO2 a year.
We know that subsidies for large-scale biomass generators in England will end in 2027—I know the Minister is up to speed on that—and the Government claim they are reviewing evidence on potential support beyond this. Will the Minister, in summing up, be clear with Parliament today? Does he believe that chopping down millions of trees on the other side of the world and shipping them to England, to then burn them to make electricity, is acceptable? If not, will he commit to ending public subsidies for large-scale biomass in 2027?
Sammy Wilson
I am glad to hear the hon. Gentleman is concerned about the chopping down of trees. Does he accept that in Scotland 13 million trees were chopped down to put up windmills?
Dave Doogan
I hesitate to thank the right hon. Member for his intervention—[Laughter.] I will need to fact check his 13 million figure—I will get back to him on that. But let us be really clear—I will touch on onshore wind in a minute—that once those trees are burned in a former coal-fired power station, the only products are CO2 and electricity, but where trees have been cleared to create onshore wind in Scotland, there is a lifetime of renewable, clean cheap energy coming out the other side, so it is a false comparator if ever I saw one. Do the Government believe that waste to energy is also clean energy? That does not seem to be what GB Energy should pursue, and I am not certain there is much support for that in the country.
Maybe the right hon. Gentleman should have made his intervention in a minute, because I remain unclear on this point. The Bill sets out that it applies to Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. However, constitutionally and administratively, in policy terms I do not see how it can apply to Northern Ireland. If the Minister could update us on what possible role GB Energy has in the entirely different energy market that exists in Northern Ireland, that would be helpful.
Community energy is essential to how we make our journey to net zero, but like much else there is scant detail on that. If the Government had properly consulted the community energy sector—they can probably still do that—they would know that access to consumers is one of the principal drawbacks to developing these schemes. It is disappointing that no lateral thinking is being applied on how to connect the will to create community energy with the market. Ofgem has created an environment where one can deliver an extraordinary example of community electricity generation, but trying to connect with consumers is almost impossible. GB Energy, if it is nothing else—and it does appear to be not much else—could have been part of the gig economy. It could have been the Uber of retail energy. We could have bought community energy and passed it on to the consumer base, but that is not going to happen.
The Government want to mirror the ambition of Vattenfall or EDF, but those companies, which are actually companies, sell to the retail market. Will the Government update us on the paltry amount that the previous Government allocated to community energy? It was £10 million just for England. What will GB Energy deliver?
Pushing ahead, zonal energy is one of the most important transformations that can come into the energy market on GB. The Government advised that electricity market reform is key—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)
Order. We now come to a maiden speech. I call Perran Moon.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald). I congratulate him on that excellent speech. In particular, when he speaks of Charles Kennedy, who is still tremendously missed in this place, he speaks of a political giant we all reflect on very fondly. It is also a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Noah Law), who I also congratulate on an excellent speech.
I speak today in support of a Bill that has the potential to be a real game-changer in the fight to decarbonise our energy supply. I applaud my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on his determination in bringing this Bill before the House so soon after the general election. It is hugely encouraging that the Government have got straight on with the business of setting up GB Energy, following hot on the heels of the excellent auction that we heard about just this week. GB Energy’s task—working hand in hand with the private sector to power an ambitious expansion of renewable energy—is a crucial one. The task of decarbonising our energy supply could not be more urgent. Scientists have made it clear that the warming of our climate due to carbon emissions is having disastrous consequences that are already being felt. We are not heading towards a climate emergency: we are already living in one.
We should reject the voices that say that China’s growth means that anything we do is futile. That is an excuse never to take the steps needed to decarbonise. Of course, there is a role for international negotiation and bringing pressure to bear on other nations, but we do that more convincingly when our own house is in order. That is why I am so pleased to support GB Energy. We have also seen the danger of being reliant on other nations for our energy security. Energy supply chains are increasingly fraught with geopolitical tensions and, in the case of Russia’s senseless invasion of Ukraine, outright conflicts. That lays bare just how vulnerable we can be when we cannot provide for ourselves. Make no mistake, energy security is national security.
We should benefit from the great natural riches this country is endowed with, yet the last Government’s inconsistency of approach detracted from the investment in renewable energy that we need. From the ban on onshore wind to the downgrading of feed-in tariffs and the disastrous, failed contracts for difference round 5 auction, the renewables sector has not previously had a consistent partner to maximise the potential for renewable energy.
Dave Doogan
I am fully aligned with the hon. Member’s priority for national security in energy not to rely on other nations. Of course, within the UK, Scotland generates vastly more energy than we can consume. Although we are in the same state—in the United Kingdom—Scotland is a different country and a different nation. Does he think it is appropriate that Scotland should reap no benefit whatsoever from its energy endowment relative to anywhere else on these islands?
Michael Shanks
I will carry on just now, because we have a very short time before we finish.
I wish to address the reasoned amendment tabled in the name of the right hon. Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho). I shall address many of these points in more detail, but, in short, Great British Energy will produce clean energy, protect bill payers in the long term, and invest in projects that expect a return on investments, generating revenue and delivering for the people of this country in the process. We will manage the transition in the North sea in a way that is prosperous and just and enables our offshore workers to retrain into the industries of the future in a long-term sustainable way. I urge the House to vote against this so-called reasoned amendment tonight.
I turn to some of the specific points that have been raised. I am sorry that I will not be able to get to all of them, because I have very little time. We have already announced a substantial amount of detail on GB Energy beyond this Bill, including publishing its founding statement, announcing the first major partnership with the Crown Estate, confirming that it will be headquartered in Scotland, and appointing Jürgen Maier as the start-up chair. This Bill is the next stage of Great British Energy’s journey, giving it the statutory footing that is needed to deliver on our ambitions. It is drafted to help establish Great British Energy and sets out the necessary legal framework.
GB Energy will be an operationally independent company, just as Great British Nuclear and the UK Infrastructure Bank are. It will be accountable to Parliament, not run by Ministers as some Members have claimed today. It will be overseen by an experienced board, benefiting from industry-leading expertise and experience right across its remit, bringing the most skilled and experienced individuals to the heart of the decisions that it will make.
GB Energy will not be a trading fund, as suggested by the hon. Member for Angus and Perthshire Glens (Dave Doogan). Instead, as I have already said, it will be an operationally independent energy company that owns, manages and operates clean energy projects. I suppose the confusion arises from the fact that the SNP’s commitment to set up a publicly owned energy company has not come to anything at all. I think it has been seven years since it was announced. Only this week, the Scottish Government drew down even more money from the ScotWind inheritance to plug the gaps in their day-to-day spending.
Michael Shanks
We have heard from the hon. Gentleman already.
There were multiple questions in this debate about how Great British Energy will lower bills and when taxpayers will see a difference. That features in the reasoned amendment tabled by the Opposition. Conservative Members want to raise the issue of bills as if they have been nowhere for the past 14 years. Their record is why people up and down this country are paying more in their bills, and the people will not forget it.
Michael Shanks
I will not give way; I am very short on time.
In an unstable world, the only way to guarantee our energy security and protect bill payers from future energy shocks is to speed up our transition away from fossil fuels and towards home-grown clean energy. We have been clear that we cannot flick a switch and fix 14 years of dither and delay overnight, but we have set about starting to do so, and we will continue. Throughout supporting the transition, Great British Energy will save families money by ensuring that electricity bills are no longer exposed to those kind of price shocks—[Interruption.] If Conservative Members want to put a number on this, let us just ask them to go back to their constituencies and ask their constituents how much more they are paying in their bills thanks to 14 years of Conservative government.
On the question of jobs, a number of hon. Members rightly raised the importance of investing in our supply chains and in the skills of the future. Great British Energy will create thousands of good jobs and build supply chains in every corner of the UK through the projects that it supports, as well as at its future head office in Scotland. Its investments will support companies across the energy industry, providing opportunities for high-quality, well-paid work rebuilding the UK’s industrial heartlands.
Several Members raised the question of community energy, which is at the heart of the Bill. Local power generation is an essential part of the energy mix, ensuring that energy projects deliver not just a community benefit but the social outcomes that local communities need. Many Members mentioned that.
Michael Shanks
I have said that I do not have time. The hon. Gentleman gave a speech in which he raised a number of points, and I am happy to come back to him at another time.
Community energy also reduces pressures on the transmission grid and the need for expensive investment, so community ownership will be critical. Great British Energy will deliver a step change in investment in local and community energy projects, putting local authorities and communities at the heart of the energy transition.
Finally, I will address a few points on devolution, which was raised by the hon. Member for Angus and Perthshire Glens, the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (Perran Moon). Great British Energy is intended to support all parts of the United Kingdom, and will help to ensure that every part of this country has a role to play in delivering our energy independence. Since we came into government, we have been engaging regularly with the devolved Governments, on this Bill and a range of other issues, to reset the relationships with them. I hope that soon the devolved Governments will indicate their support for the Bill by passing motions of legislative consent.
One of the Government’s five driving missions is to make Britain a clean energy superpower, and at the heart of that mission is Great British Energy. This is a bold idea, overwhelmingly backed by the British people—not only by people who voted Labour, but by people who voted SNP, people who voted Conservative and even people who voted Reform. Surprisingly, there were people who voted for those parties. This is an idea that has the public’s support. It will speed up the delivery of the clean energy that we need. It will deliver the next generation of good jobs, with strong trade unions, helping to re-industrialise all parts of our nation. It will protect family finances. It will learn the lessons of the past and allow the British people to reap the rewards of this transition. I urge the House to support the Bill and bring a fully operational Great British Energy one step closer to reality. I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The House proceeded to a Division.
Contracts for Difference
Dave Doogan Excerpts(3 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Ed Miliband
I welcome my hon. Friend’s question. We need to be honest about this: we face what we can only describe as a crisis with our grid situation, because we have people wanting to connect to cheap, clean renewables and being offered dates in the 2030s—often late in the 2030s. We have industrial investments that we need to happen, for which dates in the 2030s are offered. Grid reform and, as part of that, planning reform is absolutely crucial for this Government and for any Government who are serious about this. I am afraid to say that the legacy of the last Government is disastrous when it comes to the grid. We will build the grid, and I look forward to support from all parts of the House from those who want to tackle fuel poverty and want lower energy bills.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
Fair play to the new Secretary of State: 5.3 GW of offshore wind is a great achievement, especially compared with the flat zero achieved by the Tories in auction round 5. It unlocks the vital Inch Cape array off my Angus constituency coast, and supports jobs in Montrose, as well as in Moray West, and there is also the game-changing Green Volt floating array off the north-east coast of Scotland. He highlights 1 GW of onshore wind, 8 MW of which is coming from England. Will he tell the House where the rest of that onshore energy is coming from? His target is 60 GW by 2030. How will he achieve that 9 GW a year from now until 2030?
Ed Miliband
I welcome the first part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, and even the second part. The only way this will work is if, whatever our differences—and we have large differences—we work on this task with every Government across the United Kingdom, whatever kind of Government that is. Gillian Martin, the Cabinet Secretary in Scotland, and I have had many conversations —probably more in a couple of months than were had in many years under the previous Government. That deliberate example of “country first, party second” has been set by the Prime Minister. We want to work with Governments across the UK to get the renewables revolution that we need if we are to make Britain a clean energy superpower.