European Union (Referendum) Bill

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Friday 5th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

There seems to be a tendency for trust in the people to wane when a party gets into government. Given that a private Member’s Bill is a rather precocious creature that could easily be killed, if this is so important and if the Conservative party trusts the people, why can we not have that trust expressed before 2015, rather than waiting until 2017?

[James Wharton]

Of course, one of the challenges the Bill faces—and it is the reason it is a private Member’s Bill—and the reality of the parliamentary dynamic that the hon. Lady observes exists, is that the Government include not just Conservative Members, but Liberal Democrats, who have gone back on their manifesto pledge, do not want to support it and, sadly, despite my best efforts to persuade them, will not yet give it Government time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davidson]

It sounds like a get-out to me. The clear impression created was that the Conservatives were against the Lisbon treaty and that a referendum would be held. When they got into power, was a referendum held? No, it was not. That is what people will remember. That is what the people out there remember; they remember that the Conservative party could not be trusted to abide by its promise to have a referendum on Lisbon. That is why I support the proposals before us today.

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

A small group of us here have shared these debates. For the benefit of those who did not, Governments have found ways to get out of having to comply with their promises once they are in government —and with the Tories it was about when to ratify. With the Lib Dems, they got out of having a referendum on the Lisbon treaty by suddenly wanting an in/out referendum —and now that they can have that, they want something else. The real lesson is: once in government, people do not allow referendums; in opposition, they are much more likely to promise them.

[Mr Davidson]

Absolutely. I was rebuking the Conservatives, but don’t start me on the snivelling Liberals. Those points have already been made far better than I could make them. Shooting the Liberals in a barrel is just too easy and too self-indulgent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Napoleon said, “When you see your enemy tearing himself apart, don’t interrupt him.” Therefore, it is with some reluctance that I am here today, given that one of the most powerful points that has been made is that the whole reason we need this Bill is because the Conservative party does not trust its own Prime Minister to implement legislation after the next general election. Let us be clear about that. Also, if anyone doubts my credentials on demanding a referendum, I should explain that I think I was almost threatened with being thrown out of the Labour party in 2003-04 when I campaigned for one, so I will take no lessons from anyone on that.

I think that a referendum is necessary, and with regard to the timing, we will give people a meaningful choice. That takes me to one subject that has not been mentioned so far: the existence of the euro and the euro crisis. There are developments taking place in the European Union at the moment that to all intents and purposes already leave Britain out, because if we have no intention of joining the single currency, the greater and deeper integration that will be required by those member states that are part of it will marginalise Britain and push us to a level where we will have to renegotiate our relationship with the new European framework.

That takes me to another very important point. I think that this is a wretched little Bill—it is pathetic that the Prime Minister could not introduce his own Bill—notwithstanding the absolutely brilliant speech from the hon. Member for Stockton South (James Wharton). It is a private Member’s Bill that packed the House, and the way he responded was brilliant. It puts me in mind of Graham Greene’s “The Power and the Glory”, with the whisky priest and the question of whether an impure messenger can deliver a pure message.

[Mr Frank Field]

Or the opposite.

[Ms Stuart]

In this case it is the opposite. On this occasion, I think that the pure messenger should be allowed to go in peace on his battle and to take his message forward. I will not vote against the Bill. In a sense, I wish him well. As for the House, I wish to make one observation.

[Mr Redwood]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Stuart]

Yes.

[Mr Redwood]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who has great credentials. Does she agree that any future Government will have to negotiate a new relationship because of the power of the euro and its impulsion towards federalism?

[Ms Stuart]

Yes, they will.

That takes me on to the one thought that I want people to take away with them, which seems to have been forgotten. We have slipped into basing this on whether we are going to vote for or against, but we will have plenty of time to make our decision on that. In debating the arguments for and against a referendum, what if we were to substitute the words “general election”? Who in this place would stand here and say, “We can’t possibly have a general election—it would be really bad for the economy, it would be really costly, it would affect business.” Every so often in the democratic process we have general elections, and we must apply the same principle to something as significant as this. We have reached the point when people will have to be asked, and we cannot duck it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend must bear in mind that the change happening in Syria is not one that was activated here in the United Kingdom—it started in Syria. It came from the people of Syria themselves, as it has in many other countries, where many people want economic opportunity and political dignity for their own countries. The situation we face now is that the crisis is getting worse. We need a political solution and we will not get one if the more moderate and pragmatic parts of the Syrian opposition are exterminated over the coming months.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

I hope the Foreign Secretary can help simple folk like me to understand things a little bit better. My right hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Mr Hain) asked a specific and precisely worded question on a substantive vote under a certain set of circumstances. Was his answer to that yes?

[Mr Hague]

I do not know many other ways of having votes in this place on a specific issue than having a motion that talks about that issue. I was expanding on the right hon. Gentleman’s question to try to cover all eventualities. Of course we have a vote on an issue of that kind in the House of Commons. [Interruption.]

Syria

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I hope that such judgments will be a matter for the Syrian people in their own state and through their own judicial system. I know that that seems a long way away today, but I hope that that will be the way forward. It will also be open to a future Syrian Government to refer their own country to the International Criminal Court. These matters must be dealt with through the proper processes and I do not want to speculate about how many people have committed war crimes, but, on the regime side at least, it will be a very large number.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

If it is important not to dismantle the institutions of the state, is anyone talking to the Alawites to see what a post-Assad Syria would look like?

[Mr Hague]

That is partly the purpose of the negotiations. We want the regime and the opposition to engage in serious negotiations about how a transitional Government would work. The National Coalition has set out its commitment to a non-sectarian Syria, which would include the role of the Alawites. We do not have any such vision from the regime, because it has not set out a vision other than one in which President Assad stays in power and negotiations take place only with the tamer elements of the opposition. I hope that the negotiations are sufficiently successful that they get into the matter of the nature of a Syria after transition.

G8 Foreign Ministers

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

I cannot comment on intelligence matters. However, my hon. Friend will have heard me say in the statement how important it is that the UN Secretary-General’s investigation into the use of chemical weapons has access to all the areas involved in the allegations of chemical weapons use. We would be gravely concerned, as would most nations, about the transfer of such weapons to any other nation or entity. Indeed, the transfer of weapons to Hezbollah, let alone chemical weapons, would be a direct contravention of UN resolution 1701. We and many other countries would take that extremely seriously. However, I do not have any information to give my hon. Friend about that.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Further to the Foreign Secretary’s answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Mr Roy), surely he has had a chance to form an opinion on whether the BBC’s “Panorama” programme and the manner in which the footage was obtained will help or hinder diplomatic processes.

[Mr Hague]

I honestly think that that is a matter for the BBC and the LSE to pursue. Since I have spent the day talking to the South Korean Foreign Minister, hosting the Moroccan Foreign Minister, launching our human rights and democracy report, preparing for this statement and overseeing the diplomatic arrangements for the funeral of Baroness Thatcher, I have not formed a view. It is for the BBC and the LSE to take the matter forward.

Afghanistan

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Thursday 21st March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend is right to suggest that the bulk of the effort will be near Kabul. As I have said, we have made no decisions about any other military presence apart from that after 2014. We will make those decisions in due course, along with our partners in NATO, and we will keep the House updated on that through further statements. Of course, the transition is already taking place in many parts of Helmand. Lashkar Gah, for instance, was one of the first places to undergo transition, and other parts of Helmand have been involved in tranches 2 and 3 of the transition process. So even in Helmand, it is increasingly the Afghan forces that have been taking the lead, and they are equipped to do so.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

When does the Foreign Secretary expect the first meetings in Doha to take place between the Taliban and the High Peace Council of Afghanistan? Also, has the UK considered making post-2015 aid dependent on respect for the human rights of women?

[Mr Hague]

On the hon. Lady’s first question, that will depend on the actions of the Taliban. Afghanistan and Pakistan support the opening of a Taliban political office in Doha, with our encouragement and with the support and readiness of Qatar. The Taliban leadership now need to decide whether they are prepared to take this opportunity to enter into a peaceful political process, or whether they will let it slip by and lose such an opportunity.

As to decisions about development—if my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development were here, she would prefer to put it in the positive sense—we are committed to development in Afghanistan with the programme of £178 million a year, and women’s rights are an important part of that programme. It is not our normal habit around the world to say, “This aid will be withdrawn unless you do X, Y and Z”. If countries behave in a completely unacceptable way, of course, we have been known to withdraw our assistance.

European Council

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

It is worth saying that we secured agreement from the Commission at the Council to come up with plans to reduce the top 10 most burdensome EU regulations by June—including rules on chemicals, product safety and customs—and to produce proposals by the autumn on the unnecessary European rules that need to be reversed and removed from the statute book. We also secured agreement on action to improve the implementation of single market legislation, including the services directive. I hope that my hon. Friend will agree that, if implemented directly, those will be welcome steps that will enable businesses in his constituency and in mine to grow.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

First we abolished pre-Council discussions; now we are doing away with post-Council statements. Is it the policy of Her Majesty’s Government that the Prime Minister will talk about Europe only when he thinks that the meeting was “exciting”, and that we are otherwise to be kept informed only in writing or through a junior Minister who has been forced to come here?

[Mr Swire]

The hon. Lady is making the great mistake of imagining that I was forced to do anything. I came here very willingly, as the Speaker has pointed out, to respond to the urgent question from my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash). I have stated the Prime Minister’s position and, thanks to the indulgence of the Speaker in allowing me to repeat verbatim what the Prime Minister said on this subject to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone yesterday, I have nothing further to add.

Syria

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Wednesday 6th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Will the Foreign Secretary tell us what discussions he has had with Turkey, and what Turkey’s attitude is to the easing of the arms embargo?

[Mr Hague]

Turkey is very supportive of the change that the European Union has made in the arms embargo. It has, let us say, a forward-leaning approach to the crisis. If the Turkish Foreign Minister were here, he would not only say everything that I have said today, but say quite a lot more about the need for greater international support for the national coalition. I shall be meeting him again tomorrow, here in London, when he comes to the Friends of Yemen meeting, but I can say now that Turkey is extremely supportive of this announcement and of the change in EU policy.

Syria: anti-Government Forces

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Monday 4th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I understand the Minister of State’s temptation to look behind him at the person by whom he is being questioned, but if he could face the House, we would all be doubly grateful.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Will the Minister update the House on what discussions the Government have had with Turkey and tell us whether Turkey is arguing for or against lifting the arms embargo?

[Mr Swire]

My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will no doubt wish when addressing the House to update Members on the situation in Turkey, as well as that in all other neighbouring countries and others closely involved in Syria.

Europe

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Wednesday 30th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Hague]

I will not give way many more times, but I will, of course, give way to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart).

[Ms Stuart]

I will attempt to be helpful and allow the Foreign Secretary to do something now rather than project very general aims for the future. National Parliament is important, but the accountability of those on the Front Benches is much more important. If he starts making decisions made by UKRep on behalf of the Government accountable in this House through the Europe Minister, he could make immediate democratic changes now.

[Mr Hague]

We have already made important reforms to accountability in the House, and when I appear in front of the Foreign Affairs Committee next week, our permanent representative from UKRep will also answer questions. I am open to further innovations.

Our approach is one of reform and referendum, and its alternative is to let the issue drift. Speaking of drift, I must say an additional word about her Majesty’s loyal Opposition. Last week, on the day of the Prime Minister’s speech, the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander), said that a referendum on EU membership was not

“a decision you could or should take now”.

He also said:

“We’ve never ruled out referenda in principle”,

by which I think he meant that he was fairly certain that Labour’s position was uncertain.

The next day, after the Prime Minister had given his speech but before the Leader of the Opposition had pronounced on it, the shadow Energy Secretary, the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) said:

“I can’t tell you what the situation is going to be at the next election”,

by which I think she meant that she was absolutely certain that Labour’s position was uncertain. At Prime Minister’s questions the Leader of the Opposition was unfortunately uncertain that he was meant to be uncertain and said:

“My position is no, we do not want an in/out referendum”—[Official Report, 23 January 2013; Vol. 557, c. 305.]

Never has such certainty created such uncertainty so quickly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Will the Minister update the House on the progress made in negotiating the multiannual financial framework?

[Mr Lidington]

We continue to work closely with other EU member states to try to achieve a settlement, which would be agreed on the basis of a significant further cut from the figures that the Commission currently proposes, and to maintain and protect the United Kingdom’s rebate and so deliver a better deal than our predecessors achieved last time the negotiations took place.