Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Wednesday 10th February 2021 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2021.

Motion agreed.

Covid-19: Youth Unemployment

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rose of Monewden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the employment of young people; and what steps they are taking to address youth unemployment.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

Let me assure the House and the noble Lord that the Government are committed to providing support to help young people move into work in these difficult times. Such support will help avoid the scarring effects of unemployment, and our £30 billion plan for jobs includes specific interventions targeted at young people. The Youth Offer and Kickstart schemes have been designed to move young people towards meaningful and sustained employment.

[Lord Rose of Monewden (Con) [V]]

I thank the Minister for her reply. The unemployment rate for young people aged between 16 and 24 is, at 14.2%, almost three times higher than the general rate of 5%. I applaud the Government for their Kickstart and apprenticeship programmes, which will, I hope, supported by industry, provide work-based learning and experience to give our young people the skills and confidence necessary to be successful in gaining work. Will the Minister join me in applauding the Fashion Retail Academy? Also supported by industry, it provides employer-led training and qualifications relevant to the current and future needs of our beleaguered retail sector.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that young people today face an unprecedented challenge in accessing the world of work, as well as the skills they need to help them succeed. We are working closely with DfE to clarify the relationship between skills and employment provision. The DWP and DfE have put guidance in place to ensure that young apprentices made redundant due to Covid-19 can continue their learning. I thank the noble Lord for raising the excellent work of the Fashion Retail Academy. There are many other sector work-based academies doing great work to help young people in these difficult times.

[Lord Touhig (Lab) [V]]

I declare an interest as a vice-president of the National Autistic Society. Just 15 in every 100 people with autism get a job, so good education is vitally important. Since the Covid outbreak, seven in 10 autistic children are having difficulty understanding or completing schoolwork and around half—half, my Lords—will see their academic progress suffer. Can the Minister say something about what the Government are doing to mitigate this, so that in the years ahead we do not see even fewer people with autism getting a job?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The noble Lord is well-known and well-respected for his commitment to this particular difficulty that people face. I would like to assure the House that we are committed to helping everyone into work, including those who need extra and intensive support due to autism. In respect of educational input, I will speak to my noble friend Lady Berridge, and we will jointly come back to him to answer the specifics of that question. However, I can tell noble Lords this: we have recruited 150 employability coaches across Great Britain, and I have heard a number of success stories. These work coaches work particularly with vulnerable people. I can tell noble Lords that a youth employability coach in Dartford has supported a claimant with Asperger’s syndrome, helping him to secure an apprenticeship in tech support. We understand the challenge and we are on the case.

[The Lord Bishop of Winchester [V]]

My Lords, in a recent survey by the Prince’s Trust, 21% of those aged 16 to 24 said that they felt their skills and training were no longer useful as a result of the pandemic. Given that about only 2,000 young people secured roles out of 120,000 approved placements in the Kickstart scheme, can the Minister say what action Her Majesty’s Government are taking to increase the numbers enrolled on placements and to ensure that they are all high quality?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for his question, which is really valid. We have over 100,000 vacancies in Kickstart and I can assure him that everyone in the department is working at pace to secure good-quality outlets for young people. We are doing everything we can. We are working with the Prince’s Trust and all sorts of other organisations, and noble Lords will see Kickstart come into its own in the near future.

[Lord Baker of Dorking (Con) [V]]

Is the Minister aware—[Inaudible.]

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[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

My Lords, businesses in the creative, media and digital industries are typically very small and do not have the resources to support apprentices, internships and work experience. What plans do the Government have to support and enable these businesses to provide skills, training and experience to young people in this essential area?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The creative industries are very important to our economy. I was in a meeting only yesterday with some people who are very significant in the industry and they told us about the number of jobs they need to fill, which is quite significant. We were talking about getting people skilled, not just in the big cities but across the board, so that we can meet our levelling-up agenda. This is another thing that we are focusing on.

[Baroness Fall (Con) [V]]

My Lords, while our focus has been rightly on trying to save the lives of those most vulnerable in our society, we are in danger of forgetting the huge sacrifices we have asked from young people. They have been shut up at home, had exams cancelled and missed out on precious university experiences. Now they face a grim economic outlook as they look to start their working lives. I first commend the Government on their Kickstart initiative and echo other questions in asking why the rate of take-up has been so low. Also, while we support existing jobs through the furlough scheme, I wonder if we could be doing more to encourage businesses not to press cancel on a generation of young recruits. These are relatively low-cost hires who are nevertheless the future of their businesses and our country.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I have already referred to Kickstart and the progress we have made. Another point I will make is that there is a very intensive quality assurance programme for the vacancies to go through, but employers are doing their bit and falling into line with the programme, and we have great hopes for it. I agree with the noble Baroness that, as a country, we need to do all we can to help the younger generation to progress. I would be delighted to see business continue to work alongside government to achieve this aim, particularly in relation to internships.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

We will now try the noble Lord, Lord Baker of Dorking, again.

[Lord Baker of Dorking (Con) [V]]

Is the Minister aware that youth unemployment was discovered to be at 20% by the Resolution Foundation last September? The Sutton Trust has said that graduate unemployment is at 45% and that the number of apprenticeships this year has been reduced by 70% or postponed. A recent government White Paper never mentioned youth unemployment. When will the Government realise that this is a major crisis that is rising and is going to get much worse, and that measures are needed?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The noble Lord is right to point out the level of unemployment among young people and graduates; I take no argument with that. But he asks when the Government will recognise this: we are working flat out to ensure that young people get the help they need to get a meaningful job and the skills they need to compete effectively in the job market. I can assure the noble Lord and the whole House that we are working at pace to achieve this.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB) [V]]

My Lords, one thing that has become apparent during Covid is that initiatives work best when they are local rather than national. Needs for skills and therefore for training are also often local rather national. For instance, the noble Baroness, Lady Janke, referred to the creative industries. In this country film production is thriving in Yorkshire, while Leamington Spa is the capital of video games. So can the Minister reassure me that local authorities will have much more say in what training schemes are made available and how they will be funded locally?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My noble friend raises a number of relevant points. As I have said, we are working with local authorities and businesses. There is absolute mileage in all my noble friend says about things being done locally, because people know one another best in their local community. My strapline for all that we are doing is “To be known nationally but felt locally”.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

[Inaudible]—about the scale of the crisis. The Government want 250,000 placements but, as the right reverend Prelate pointed out, not even 2,000 young people are in place and, by November, nearly 600,000 young people were claiming unemployment benefits. So when will 250,000 young people actually be in jobs and what are the Government doing to help the other 350,000 young people who cannot access Kickstart?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Let me be clear again that we are working at pace with employers to get the vacancies we need in Kickstart. We have started people, and that take-up will accelerate in the coming days. There is no lessening of effort on that. In terms of our offer, we have the youth unemployment programme; we have youth hubs—which are helping people; and we have our youth employability coaches as well as work coaches in jobcentres. With all those efforts combined we will do as much as we can to get as many as possible of the young people referred to by the noble Baroness back into work.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed. I apologise to those whom I was unable to call. We now move to the fourth Oral Question.

Pension Schemes Bill [HL]

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments & Ping Pong (Hansard) & Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 19th January 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 1.

1: Clause 27, page 17, line 38, leave out from beginning to end of line 40 and insert “The notice must specify—”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, before turning to the Commons amendments, I will take a moment to remind the House of what the Bill does, as a lot has happened since it was last here.

If enacted, the Bill will affect the lives of millions of people throughout the country. It will make pensions better by creating a new style of pension scheme that has the potential to increase future returns for millions of working people, and by delivering pensions dashboards that will help individuals to make informed decisions about their financial futures. It will make them safer by helping to prevent scams and by clamping down on those who recklessly try to plunder the pension pots of hard-working employees. It will make them greener by requiring pension schemes to take the Government’s net-zero climate targets into account in managing their own climate risk. I know that your Lordships agree that this is a worthwhile and important piece of legislation, and it has received cross-party support in both Houses. I hope that we are now at the final stage of its passage, and that we can agree and allow it to move on for Royal Assent.

I turn to Amendment 1. We welcome the strong interest shown in both Houses on ensuring that CDC schemes treat their members fairly and, in particular, operate in a way that is intergenerationally fair. As we explained in both Houses, requiring trustees to assess fairness is likely to generate confusion, as the concept means different things to different people, and there would be uncertainty about what was required. That is why we have intentionally avoided referencing fairness in such a way within any of the CDC provisions. Instead, following consultation, we intend to use these regulations to set out clear principles and processes that schemes must follow to ensure that different types of members are treated the same where appropriate—for example, when accruing and calculating benefits and making adjustments to benefits. These requirements will form part of the authorisation process for CDC schemes overseen by the Pensions Regulator.

For example, we intend that regulations under Clause 18 will require CDC scheme rules to ensure that there is no difference in treatment when calculating and adjusting benefits between different cohorts or age groups of scheme members, or between members who are active, deferred or receiving a pension. This is a clear and effective approach to delivering fairness in practice that is not only easy to understand, but also easy for members and trustees to apply, because it avoids a subjective interpretation of what is fair. We are all pleased that Royal Mail agrees with our approach, and it is for these reasons that we do not consider the amendment to the Bill necessary.

I will move on to Commons Amendments 2 and 3. Pension dashboards will help to revolutionise the pensions industry and bring it into the 21st century. This innovative programme will help to reconnect consumers with their otherwise lost pension pots and engage millions of UK citizens with their pension savings in a safe, secure and convenient way. These amendments on delaying the introduction of dashboards from other providers and preventing transactions through dashboards were overturned in the other place. This was in recognition of the approach taken to ensure that consumers were protected as part of the development of dashboard services. In respect of multiple dashboards, it has always been the Government’s belief that individuals should be able to access information about their pension savings from a service of their choosing. I am delighted that, following the changes that we made in this House, consumers will be able to access a dashboard service that is publicly owned, provided by the Money and Pensions Service. I restate the commitment that was made by my noble friend Lord Howe in this House on 30 June last year that

“the Government wholeheartedly agree that such a dashboard should be available to all users from day one, alongside dashboards offered by other organisations.”—[Official Report, 30/6/20; col. 668.]

We will not allow any qualifying dashboard to be launched before that of the Money and Pensions Service. However, we remain firmly of the belief that allowing other properly regulated dashboard providers to operate is the best way to drive engagement, reaching out to consumers where they may already interact with digital services, and unlocking innovative potential. I have said before that dashboards will launch with a simple find-and-view capability; this remains the case. However, enabling transactions through dashboards can provide an innovative way of safely giving people more effective control of their pension savings. Functionality on dashboards will be increased only as a result of user testing, after careful review and with the right level of consumer protections in place. It is important that we maintain the ability to meet the needs of the user by not prohibiting functionality that can put individuals in control. The ability to have this type of functionality in the future could bring real and significant benefits for consumers—for example, when consolidating small pots of pensions savings.

Dashboards are a hugely exciting innovation that will benefit and empower millions of citizens. We should support the development of dashboards so that they reach their potential and change the way that people interact with their pensions savings by placing them in control of all their pensions.

Finally, Commons Amendment 5 removed the privilege amendment made in the Lords, as is the norm in these cases. I beg to move.

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB) [V]]

My Lords, as there are no counterproposals to these Commons amendments, I shall try to brief, but there are a couple of points I would like to make in relation to Commons Amendments 1, 2 and 3.

Throughout the passage of the Bill, we have had lengthy discussions around the risk of unfairness, intergenerational or otherwise, that is inherent to collective money purchase schemes, or CDCs as they seem still to be called. I regret that the Government chose not to accept the amendment which required trustees to make an assessment of the extent to which a scheme is operating in a manner fair to all members; it has been removed by Commons Amendment 1. That seemed a fairly uncontroversial concept. However, the Minister has been very clear that the Government acknowledge the risk of unfairness, that they intend to learn from experiences in other countries, such as the Netherlands, and that they intend to deal with this issue in the regulations that they will publish in relation to Clause 18.

Commons Amendments 2 and 3 remove the amendments your Lordships agreed to in relation to pensions dashboards which required that there should be a period during which pensions dashboards are initially restricted to the MaPS dashboard and that they should not become transactional platforms without primary legislation. On the second point, I remain quite uncomfortable with the idea of a pensions dashboard becoming a transactional platform without very serious thought and experience. However, these matters will also be dealt with by regulations and I am confident that the Minister has heard the concerns that have been raised, even if she does not agree with the proposed method of dealing with them.

The Minister has been very generous with her time and commendably willing to meet to listen to and discuss concerns throughout the passage of the Bill. As a result of changes made to the Bill as it passed through your Lordships’ House, most of the regulations that will follow will be subject to the affirmative procedure. However, even under the affirmative procedure, it will not be possible to amend regulations. I therefore urge the Minister to continue her constructive and collaborative approach in relation to the regulations that will now follow by consulting across the House before draft regulations become set in stone. That way she will be able to take advantage of the very deep pensions knowledge and experience in this House and the regulations will be all the better for it.

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[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I, too, am grateful to the Minister for explaining why the Government asked the Commons to reject the amendments passed in this House. We have come a long way since the Bill had its First Reading in this House on 7 January—more than a year ago, although it seems more like a lifetime. The Bill now makes some important changes, creates CDC schemes, legislates for the pensions dashboard and strengthens the regulatory environment on pensions.

During the Bill’s passage through this House, the Government have made some welcome concessions. For example, we ran an amendment to require a public dashboard from the outset. The Government brought forward amendments requiring that, and I am grateful for the confirmation that the Minister has given today. We ran amendments saying that the FCA should regulate the provision of dashboard services, and the Minister has confirmed that that will happen. We ran an amendment to say that using the dashboard to see your own data must be free, and the Minister has confirmed that it will remain free.

The Bill initially made no reference to climate change, but my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and Members from across the House worked together to persuade the Government to amend the Bill to require trustees and managers to take the Paris Agreement and domestic climate change targets into account in their overall governance and their disclosure of climate change risks and opportunities. This is the first time that the words “climate change” have featured in domestic pensions legislation.

This is a better Bill than it was when it started, and I am grateful to all noble Lords who have worked so hard on it, especially my noble friend Lady Drake and Dan Harris in our Opposition Whips team. I am also grateful to the Minister for engaging with our concerns and to the Bill team and all the officials who have engaged with us.

That said, the Government have rejected the amendments which this House voted for. On CDC schemes, I hope they will review the intergenerational impact of any schemes as they are developed and will keep an eye on that. I am particularly disappointed that our amendments on the pensions dashboard system were rejected. They would have put in place two essential safeguards: that the MaPS public dashboard should be in operation for a year and that the Secretary of State should lay a report before Parliament on its operation and effectiveness before commercial dashboards enter the market, and that the delegated powers in the Bill could not be used to authorise commercial dashboards to engage in transactions.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, I remain deeply concerned about the risks to consumers. Those amendments were especially important given the sheer breadth of the delegated powers the Bill grants and how little we know at the moment about how the dashboards will work. We still do not know how many dashboards there will be, who will run them, what information they will have, how it will be displayed or how consumers will respond. We do not know where liability will lie for each link in the chain or how consumers will be compensated if they lose out. We do not know what the charging model will be or how data security, identity verification or third-party access will be managed.

Given all those things that we do not know, I have sought to persuade the Government to come to Parliament to allow us to debate the proposals they make before the regulations are published. I regret that I have not succeeded in that. Given that this remains a very high-risk programme and that parliamentary scrutiny would surely be an advantage not an impediment, I hope that in her reply the Minister can give us some assurance of our continued involvement in debate on this process. I look forward to hearing her reply.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

First, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Janke and Lady Sherlock, for their contributions. I think it is right to say that we have listened, we have engaged and we have valued and appreciated all noble Lords’ contributions, and I assure noble Lords that that will continue.

I reassure the House that the Government are fully committed to continue transparency and engagement through the development, delivery and operation of pensions dashboards. We greatly value the insight and input from colleagues from across the House in shaping, testing and ensuring the proposals and want that to continue throughout the more detailed stages of development. The pension dashboards programme is committed to publishing six-monthly progress updates, the most recent of which, in October 2020, outlined the work undertaken to define the data standards and the work towards finalising the requirements for the digital architecture and the identity service. It also set out an indicative plan for delivery.

Future updates, in advance of the launch of dashboards, will provide greater detail, engagement opportunity and assurance on key areas of specific interest. These will include the digital architecture and identity service; user consents and permissions, including delegated or third-party access; the consumer protection regime, including the liability model; and further work on how data will be presented to consumers, based on a growing body of user research and a greater understanding of user needs.

I facilitated a meeting between noble Lords and the pensions dashboards programme team just before Christmas. As promised at that meeting, I will ensure that these regular meetings continue. They will provide your Lordships with the opportunity to have meaningful discussions directly with the programme team at the publication of each progress update report and a chance to scrutinise this work at an early stage of development. I will ensure that copies of these reports are placed in the House Library on their publication.

I recognise the concerns that many have expressed about the broad nature of the delegated powers within this area of the Bill. There is a statutory duty on the Secretary of State to consult before making regulations for pensions dashboards. Consultation will cover proposals across the range of areas which are critical to the safe, secure and effective delivery of dashboards, and give all those interested the opportunity to influence the detail before the regulations are laid in draft in this House under the affirmative procedure.

I know that some of your Lordships have asked whether we can go even further, requiring the Government to lay a report before Parliament for debate in advance of draft regulations being laid. I do not believe this to be the right way forward, as the consultation on the Government’s proposals for regulations will already have taken place.

I have listened further to the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, and, although we have not always been in agreement, we are together on Peers having ongoing future involvement, and we are prepared to engage, engage and engage. Therefore, in addition to updating the House in the usual manner, I am prepared to commit to the Government tabling Written Ministerial Statements during the consultation phases, prior to the debate on the proposed dashboard regulations.

I reassure the noble Baroness that I will continue to work with her collaboratively in the way we have done throughout the Bill’s progress. On the matter of facilitating further debate on the issue, I am sure that the Chief Whip has heard our debate today, and, when the Written Ministerial Statements are laid, I will draw them to his attention for him to consider further discussion in the usual channels.

Some concerns have been expressed about governance of the dashboard service going forward. The Money and Pensions Service has responsibility for delivery of the dashboard architecture and ongoing oversight and control, and it is clear that our focus for the foreseeable future must be on the development and implementation of the service. Meeting the demands of the scale and complexity of this challenge comes first. Reaching a live and steady state of operation will take a number of years, as set out in the pensions dashboards programme activity plan. As such, I confirm that the Government have no plan to move ownership of dashboards architecture away from the Money and Pensions Service.

My department has clear governance arrangements in place to ensure the delivery of dashboards. As well as the regular published updates that I mentioned earlier, there is an existing legislative requirement, in the Financial Guidance and Claims Act 2018, for MaPS to report to the Secretary of State annually on the exercise of its functions, which includes its responsibilities for pensions dashboards. This report is laid before Parliament.

Chris Curry, the senior responsible officer for the pensions dashboard programme, and Sir Hector Sants, chair of the Money and Pensions Service, regularly report progress to Ministers. The department also undertakes formal quarterly accountability reviews with the Money and Pensions Service. We recognise the importance of effective evaluation, including monitoring of consumer behaviours and outcomes. My department is responsible for overall evaluation of the policy and is working with the pensions dashboards programme and regulators to develop a comprehensive evaluation plan.

Research will also be undertaken with providers and users alike throughout the project life cycle. This will include user testing to understand likely reactions and behaviours, and research to understand the impact that dashboards will have on the market. My department is developing a joint set of critical success factors to complement delivery and measure the success of policy objectives. These are relevant to all stages of the programme and will give insights on, among other things, usage of the service, delivery and compliance. Review of the critical success factors will also play a part in evaluation and service developments.

I finish by repeating the commitment that I made in my opening remarks. We will not allow any dashboard to which schemes are required to supply data to be launched before that of the Money and Pensions Service. On the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, about a review of intergenerational impact and fairness, we will of course review how CD schemes operate and will monitor how different groups are treated.

I hope that my comments reassure noble Lords that the Government are acting diligently and responsibly in the delivery of dashboards.

Motion on Amendment 1 agreed.

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 2 and 3.

2: Clause 118, page 104, leave out lines 20 to 22

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Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 4.

4: Clause 123, page 118, line 1, leave out subsection (2)

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, this amendment was overturned in the House of Commons because, as the Minister for Pensions and Financial Inclusion explained in Committee in the Commons, no Government can commit to ensuring that all defined benefit pension schemes that are expected to remain open are treated differently from other schemes. Although, of course, the extent to which a scheme is open, and how that affects whether and how it will mature, must be considered, open schemes do not all share the same characteristics, and it would be wrong to treat them all in a similar way. Each scheme must be treated taking account of its own particular circumstances.

The original amendment touched on a number of important factors to be taken into account in the scheme funding arrangements. They are some, but by no means all, of the factors that we think trustees or managers should have to consider when setting a scheme’s funding and investment strategy. These are complex and inter- dependent metrics and most appropriate to be considered in secondary legislation rather than being put on the face of the Bill. The Bill provides for this through delegated powers that will enable secondary legislation to set out in some detail what the new funding and investment strategy will need to include.

Addressing those matters in regulations will give interested parties a chance to contribute to the consultation on draft regulations. It will also allow flexibility to ensure that the arrangements can be adapted as economic conditions change, so that the scheme funding system can continue to operate effectively over time. But we absolutely do not want to see good schemes close unnecessarily. We have made a clear commitment to ensuring that regulations work in a way that does not prevent appropriate open schemes investing in riskier investments where there are potentially higher returns, provided the risks taken can be supported and that members’ benefits and the Pension Protection Fund are effectively protected. With that explanation, I beg to move.

Motion 4A (as an amendment to the Motion on Amendment 4)

Moved by

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[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, I will first respond to the question of my noble friend Lady Altmann on long-term horizons. The scheme funding measures in the Bill, together with secondary legislation and a revised scheme funding code of practice, seek to support trustees and employers to manage this scheme funding with a focus on longer term planning. As now, the scheme’s liquidity requirements, investment timelines and the amount of risk each scheme can support will depend on factors including its maturity and the strength of its employer covenant. Trustees can and do invest in illiquid assets such as infrastructure, and our measures do not seek to discourage such investments where they are appropriate.

I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Davies, for his contribution. The thought of being locked out of a sweet shop gives me more heartache than your Lordships will know. We will do our very best to make sure that it does not happen again. We welcome the noble Lord to the House and have no doubt that he will add a lot of expertise. He has joined the formidable band of brothers on pensions and we are very glad he is with us.

I am very grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Bowles and Lady Sherlock, for their amendments. I am also grateful to all those who have contributed to the debates we had relating to schemes that are open to new members. They have been highly influential and have helped us refine our thinking on how schemes in these circumstances should be treated. The Government are very sympathetic to the thinking behind these amendments, but there are good reasons why we do not want to deal with these matters on the face of the Bill.

One of the main drivers behind our reforms to the scheme funding arrangement is the desire to be able to more effectively tackle the small minority of schemes and employers who push the flexibilities of our scheme-specific arrangements further than is appropriate, to the detriment of their members. As the detail of the arrangements is necessarily complex, there is a real risk that attempting to deal with it in primary legislation will inadvertently weaken the funding regime as a whole and undermine the ability of the Pensions Regulator to tackle the very issues that these reforms were designed to address. Rather, we think that the best place to deal with these matters is in regulations—following a full consultation. That way, we can work closely with the full range of interested parties, effectively calibrate the system and get the right balance between member security and employer affordability. By placing such matters in regulations, we will retain the flexibility in the future to adjust the relevant parameters should the evolving economic situation demand it.

What I can do now is set out some key principles of how we will proceed with framing the secondary legislation, which I am happy to put on the record and am confident will provide noble Lords with the reassurance they are looking for. Much of our original thinking was driven by the fact that most schemes are closed and maturing, but we completely accept that we need to be clearer about our thinking on other important groups of schemes. These are the schemes that continue to admit new members. Many of these schemes will not be maturing in the same way as closed schemes and some of them will be admitting sufficient new members to avoid maturing at all. A genuinely scheme-specific approach has to recognise the characteristics of such schemes and treat them appropriately. I am therefore grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, and others for helping us to focus our thinking on these schemes. Let me make it clear now that the Government, having further considered the debate on the Bill and feedback from the pensions industry, fully intend that the defined benefit funding regime will remain scheme specific, and any bespoke approach should build on this foundation. This regime will continue to apply flexibility to take account of individual scheme circumstances.

The department confirms that detailed provisions for ongoing defined benefit funding, including any necessary assessment criteria and metrics, will be set out in regulations and in the Pension Regulator’s defined benefit funding code of practice, which will acknowledge the position of open and less mature schemes. As noble Lords have said, Ministers at the DWP have gone to great lengths to make themselves available to those who have pressed them on the position of schemes that remain open to new members. Both Ministers and officials have had extensive discussions with interested Peers, and others, including on schemes that remain open to new members. I also understand that interested Peers have been able to discuss these matters in detail with senior officials at the Pensions Regulator. This has been a highly productive engagement and, as I have said, it has been instrumental in guiding us to a better and more refined policy position. That is something I expect to continue.

Prior to the publication of the draft regulations, the Government can commit to an engagement programme with interested parties, including a range of schemes. These will include those remaining open and immature. They will launch a consultation document informed by this engagement. The Government will also publish a regulatory impact assessment of the draft regulations and the Pensions Regulator will publish an impact assessment alongside its revised funding code. These will include analyses of different de-risking approaches on members and sponsors of all schemes, including those that are open or immature, and those that are not targeting buyout.

We absolutely do not want to see good and viable defined benefit schemes close unnecessarily. We want them to be treated on their merits in a truly scheme-specific regime. We have said that open schemes should be able to provide the same level of security for members as closed schemes. I want to make it absolutely clear that this does not mean that they necessarily need to invest in the same way. We simply mean that members in an open scheme should be able to enjoy the same level of confidence that the benefits they have worked hard to build up will be paid in full, as for members in a closed scheme. We completely agree that open schemes that are not maturing and have a strong employer covenant should not be forced into an inappropriate de-risking journey. We will ensure that such schemes and employers which can support a higher risk and higher expected reward investment strategy can continue to invest in this way. If they are already doing the right thing, they should not need to significantly increase contributions as a result of these new measures.

The Government accept that for some schemes, depending on the circumstances, de-risking is not the best way to safeguard members’ benefits. Member benefits can be best safeguarded by an appropriate integrated risk management strategy determined after careful analysis by the trustees, which takes account of time horizon, liquidity, employer covenant and appropriate diversification.

This is the way that we intend to proceed as, with the help of close engagement with interested parties, we work on the regulations that will set out the detail of how the funding regime will operate. I hope that what I have said reassures noble Lords of our intentions and that the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, I have not received any requests to speak after the Minister, so I now call the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, to reply.

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Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 5.

5: Clause 132, page 125, line 17, leave out subsection (2)

Extreme Poverty

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the report by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation Destitution in the UK 2020, published on 9 December, what steps they are taking to address any (1) increase in, and (2) intensification of, extreme poverty in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, tackling poverty is a priority for this Government. Throughout this pandemic, this Government have sought to protect jobs and incomes, spending billions on strengthening welfare support and ensuring the most vulnerable can meet their basic needs. Our long-term ambition is to level up opportunity across the UK by helping people back into work as quickly as possible, based on clear and consistent evidence of the important role work can play in tackling poverty.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is it not shocking that the JRF found that

“even before the COVID-19 outbreak destitution was rapidly growing in scale and intensity”,

with 2.4 million people, including over 500,000 children, in households unable to afford the essentials needed to eat and stay warm and dry? Given that this and other research identifies social security cuts and design flaws as the key cause of this hardship, what assessment have the Government made of the impact on extreme poverty of withdrawing the £20 UC uplift in April and refusing to extend it to disabled people, the unemployed and carers on legacy and related benefits?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Tackling poverty, as I said, is an absolute commitment and a priority for this Government. The noble Baroness raises the issue of the £20 uplift, and I can only confirm that the £20 uplift is in place until April 2021. Discussions between our department, the Treasury and others are ongoing, and a decision will be made in due course.

[Lord Hendy (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, before the impact of lockdown, in 2018, the United Nations special rapporteur on extreme poverty found that 14 million people in the United Kingdom were below the poverty line, 9 million of them in households where at least one person worked. Wages need to be increased to reduce poverty. To this end, and to increase demand, the OECD and the ILO advocate the promotion of collective bargaining. Does the Minister agree with them? If so, what steps to restore collective bargaining in the United Kingdom will the Government take to enable the voice of workers to be heard in the determination of wages?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I am pleased that the noble Lord recognises that being in good, well-paid work is a good route out of poverty. On collective bargaining, I will need to come back to the noble Lord in writing.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

The noble Baroness will be aware that many people in poverty and destitution do not have access to computers. They are often deprived of support and advice as well as crucial referrals to such services as food banks. Often, they do not pick up DWP instructions, and they end up being sanctioned through no fault of their own, adding further insult to injury. What plans do the Government have to bridge the digital divide and ensure access for the poorest and most deprived to such essential services?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a really important point. As we move to more online activity, access to technology will be critical for people to get the information they need. I can confirm that our department is looking at how we can increase digital access as part of the work the Secretary of State is conducting across government on the cost of living. Indeed, this is one of the things the flexible support fund exists to help with. When people see their work coach and explain their difficulties with access to IT, the flexible support fund can help.

[Baroness Eaton (Con) [V]]

My Lords, to read the words “living in destitution” as a description of life for some people, particularly children, is acutely distressing. When will the Government bring forward a proper strategy for tackling poverty, which, as this latest report clearly shows, was rising and intensifying long before the pandemic?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I can confirm to my noble friend, as I already have, that this Government have consistently supported the lowest-paid families by increasing the living wage and continually strengthening the welfare safety net, including with an injection of billions extra this year for those in need. Our long-term ambition is to support economic recovery in this country by getting people back to work as quickly as possible.

[Lord Woolley of Woodford (CB) [V]]

My Lords, there have been two worrying reports this week: Destitution in the UK by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Covid-19 Marmot review by Sir Michael Marmot. These reports paint a bleak picture of deprivation and destitution in the UK made worse by Covid-19. Both highlight the shocking, disproportionate impact these are having on black, Asian and minority ethnic communities, including Gypsy, Roma and Traveller. When will the Government acknowledge this specific fact and, more importantly, ensure there is targeted action to deal with it effectively?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

This Government have acknowledged the issues the BAME community faces and taken action. In fact, the number of BAME community members going into work was increasing. The detail of the noble Lord’s question might warrant, I may suggest, a meeting between us to talk about them further and in more depth.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, we all want to help people into work, but this report shows people are destitute now. It highlights the fragility of our social security system, pointing out that half of destitute households were getting universal credit or had applied for it. It says that needing to repay advances was leaving them with little to live on, and it warns that Britain is increasingly reliant on food banks as a core welfare response to destitution. This is scandalous—does the Minister agree with me? If so, what are the Government going to do about it now?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I certainly acknowledge the issues that people are facing; I do not shy away from that at all. But, at the risk of repeating myself, the Government are right now putting over £100 million extra into working-age welfare, we have the Covid winter support fund, we have the plan for jobs and the pandemic policies are under continual review. There are free school meals and money for food charities. I am not sure I agree with the noble Baroness’s implication that we are not doing enough.

[Lord Taylor of Goss Moor (LD) [V]]

My Lords, we clearly face a completely unprecedented shock to the system, in which families who have been hard working and supporting themselves are being plunged into poverty and destitution by the economic shocks associated with coronavirus. One group that is often forgotten is those in rural poverty, whose difficulties are often made worse by their difficulty in accessing services that have been centralised. Will the Government put a priority on ensuring that at least some services are directed to the more remote, rural communities, where people in destitution often find themselves unable to get the help that people in more urban areas take for granted?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The noble Lord raises a very pertinent issue. I am well aware of the issues that rural communities face. What I would like to do, if he is happy with this, is go back to my colleagues in the jobcentre network in order to understand exactly what they are doing to target help at the rural communities, and come back to him in due course.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Desai. No? In that case, I call the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, the Government introduced a welcome measure to help up to 4 million people on low incomes in September, offering a grant of £500 to those who had to self-isolate but could not work from home and therefore faced a drop in income. However, some of the local authorities through which this grant is routed are running out of funds, thereby prejudicing the success of the scheme. What steps can my noble friend take to ensure that those who are entitled to these grants get them?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The £15 million allocated for discretionary payments is a fixed envelope to cover cases of exceptional hardship that fall outside the scope of the main test and trace support payment scheme. In addition, the Government have made a range of other support available to those on low incomes who have to self-isolate. That includes changing the rules to allow claims for statutory sick pay, increasing the standard allowance of UC and the Self-employment Income Support Scheme.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed, and that brings Question Time to an end.

Chemicals (Health and Safety) and Genetically Modified Organisms (Contained Use) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 14th December 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 15 October be approved.

Considered in Grand Committee on 9 December.

Motion agreed.

Social Security Co-ordination (Revocation of Retained Direct EU Legislation and Related Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 16 November be approved.

Considered in Grand Committee on 8 December.

Motion agreed.

Chemicals (Health and Safety) and Genetically Modified Organisms (Contained Use) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Chemicals (Health and Safety) and Genetically Modified Organisms (Contained Use) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, this draft statutory instrument was laid before Parliament on 15 October. Through this instrument, we are making the necessary arrangements to implement the terms of the withdrawal agreement and the Northern Ireland protocol in law for chemicals regulations. This will ensure that these regulations function effectively from the end of the transition period and that the existing high standard of protection for human health and the environment will be maintained.

In preparation for our exit from the European Union, a statutory instrument was made last year to ensure that the regulatory framework for chemicals remained functional after exit and to provide certainty for businesses and the public. It achieved that by making technical amendments to the retained EU law, such as changing EU-specific references and transferring functions and powers currently held by the European Commission to the appropriate authorities in each of the UK’s constituent nations.

Since the 2019 regulations were made, the withdrawal agreement, including the Northern Ireland protocol, has been agreed. The protocol requires that EU legislation will continue to apply in Northern Ireland after the end of the transition period. The existing EU exit legislation therefore needs to be amended to reflect the fact that retained EU law will be substantively applicable in Great Britain only.

If approved, these draft regulations will make the necessary amendments to three retained EU regulations as well as to EU-derived domestic legislation. I appreciate that the technical and composite nature of the regulations makes this particularly complex; the decision to present these proposals as a single instrument was for the benefit of the House, to reduce pressure on parliamentary time and to ensure that we are able to deliver an orderly transition. As this is such a technical instrument, I shall provide a concise summary of the regulations and the changes that we are making for noble Lords.

Of the three retained EU regulations to be amended, the first is the biocidal products regulation. This governs the placing on the market and use of products that contain chemicals which protect humans, animals, materials or articles from harmful organisms like pests or bacteria. This market covers a wide range of products such as wood preservatives, insecticides such as wasp spray, or anti-fouling paint to remove barnacles from boats.

Secondly, the classification, labelling and packaging of substances and mixtures regulation ensures that the hazardous intrinsic properties of chemicals are properly identified and effectively communicated to those throughout the supply chain, including to the point of use. The current classification laws are sophisticated and incorporate a detailed technical system of classification criteria. This classification is partly done through standardised hazard pictograms and symbols and warning phrases associated with specific hazards, such as explosivity, acute toxicity, or carcinogenicity.

Lastly, the export and import of hazardous chemicals regulations require the export of listed chemicals to be notified to the importing country and, for some chemicals, the consent of the importing country must be obtained before export can proceed.

This instrument makes three main changes, which I shall summarise. First, we are updating some transitional provisions in the 2019 regulations so that they apply from the end of the transition period, when the retained law comes into force, rather than from exit day. It should be noted that while this instrument’s title references genetically modified organisms, the only amendments to the relevant legislation are to update two references to “exit day”.

Secondly, it removes Northern Ireland from the scope of the 2019 regulations by omitting references to Northern Ireland and changing UK-specific references to read “Great Britain”. The instrument also revokes changes made to domestic legislation in Northern Ireland in the 2019 regulations, which are no longer required due to the protocol. Lastly, this instrument legislates for the Government’s commitment on unfettered access for these chemical regulations as well as the need to ensure that UK authorities have the appropriate information and regulatory safeguards in respect of chemicals placed on the market in Great Britain.

The Health and Safety Executive currently acts as a UK competent authority within the EU regimes for chemicals regulation. Under this instrument, it will become the GB regulatory authority. The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland will be the regulatory authority with responsibility for Northern Ireland, and we are working closely with Northern Irish colleagues to prepare for the end of the transition period and support them afterwards. Both organisations have demonstrated their resilience through the pandemic, and I am confident that they have the capacity to undertake any new responsibilities brought about by EU exit.

This instrument was not subject to consultation as it does not alter existing policy. Published guidance has been followed and, in line with it, a full impact assessment has not been conducted as the instrument does not meet the de minimis threshold. However, I assure noble Lords that the changes brought about by it have been communicated through a series of stakeholder events throughout autumn and guidance published on the HSE website in October.

The devolved Administrations have also been fully engaged in the development of this instrument and have provided consent for the elements that relate to them. We are also in the process of agreeing a provisional common framework for chemicals that aims to maintain existing standards and promote common approaches to chemicals policy in the future.

In conclusion, this instrument will provide important continuity and clarity to the chemicals industry, ensuring that the legal requirements that apply to chemicals regulation are clear following the end of the transition period. I hope that colleagues of all parties will join me in supporting the draft regulations, and I commend them to the Committee. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I too add my thanks to the officials, who have helped us understand the detail of this SI and whose support has proved invaluable.

In winding up, I will address some of the important points raised during the discussions. First, my noble friend Lady Altmann mentioned the CLP and the MCL list. This will copy all existing harmonised EU classifications on 1 January, and HSE will be able to carry out its responsibilities to update.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, talked about the chemical cocktail effect. I will ensure that the Health and Safety Executive writes directly to her and that a record is sent to all Members in the Committee and placed in the Library. The noble Baroness also talked about REACH. The REACH regulation is not included in this SI. Defra has the policy responsibility for the REACH regulation and has brought forward separate legislation on it, which I understand was debated yesterday.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh talked about GMOs. The responsibility for aspects of GMO policy is spread throughout government. However, regarding contained usage, there will be no reduction in standards, and existing protections covering human health and the environment are maintained and will continue to work in the same way post EU exit.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh talked about resourcing and recruitment. The Health and Safety Executive has identified a total of 147 posts to be filled by the end of the financial year. We have made good progress and at present we have filled 108 of the 147 posts—73%—and are confident that this means we will be ready for the end of the transition period. Of the 73% of posts we have filled to date, we expect the vast majority to start in January, with the remainder taking up post before April. Several campaigns are still ongoing and due for completion in January 2021. We will continue to seek recruitment into our outstanding posts as a priority until the end of March. In total, we are recruiting an additional 117 brand new posts into the Chemicals Regulation Division relating specifically to EU exit. This represents a 45% increase in our baseline staffing number—260—from January 2020, and demonstrates our significant commitment to take on the new functions required.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh raised the issue of animal testing and asked whether, if we cannot access animal testing data, that would require applicants to do more tests. The Health and Safety Executive will apply the principle in the biocidal products regulation that vertebrate tests “shall not be repeated” and may be undertaken

“only as a last resort.”

Therefore, if the data owner has not submitted the study to the HSE, we would expect the applicant to make every effort to obtain access to it. Should the applicant not be able to reach agreement on data access with the data owner, decisions would need to be made on a case-by-case basis and we would need to discuss options with the applicant. We would accept a vertebrate study only if all options had been exhausted; I understand that this is the “last resort” principle.

My noble friend also talked about GMOs and contained use. We will not reduce standards and changes to legislation will follow the usual scrutiny and consultation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, talked about timescale changes and Article 37 of the CLP. This instrument amends the timescales put in place by the SI made in 2019 due to operational concerns raised since then. These amendments will ensure that the HSE has sufficient time to carry out its operational responsibilities. In addition, the current wording of the EU regulation states that decisions are taken “without undue delay”. However, those affected by regulatory decisions should be clear about when those decisions will take place. Therefore, our amendments specify that a decision is required within three months of a recommendation being made to Ministers and that, within one month of the decision, the HSE must update the GB MCL list.

The noble Baroness also asked about certainty for business. The decision to amend the timescales so that they are operationally deliverable was made under the advice of and after consultation with the specialist regulatory scientists in the HSE and the devolved Administrations. The system mirrors the EU system as much as possible so that the industry will be familiar with the assessment process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, also mentioned environmental assessment as part of the process. As part of the technical assessment, the HSE must look at the impact that a substance’s intrinsic hazards may have on environmental end-points. The HSE is supported by the Environment Agency in undertaking this work.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, and my noble friend Lady Altmann referred to unfettered access. The Government’s approach to unfettered access and the Northern Ireland protocol was set out in the main Command Paper and subsequent business guidance. This outlines that there will be some specific requirements for movements from Northern Ireland to GB for items categorised as highly regulated goods. Chemicals are highly regulated goods because they can pose a significant risk to human health and the environment.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked whether the Health and Safety Executive undertakes assessments for biocidal products during the 90-day period. All chemicals are highly regulated goods because they can pose a significant risk to human health and the environment. There is a transparency requirement for a Northern Ireland business to notify the Health and Safety Executive with information that it would submit to the EU before the biocidal product is placed on the market.

On the noble Baroness’s question about finances, I can confirm that, for the 2020-21 financial year, an additional £6.1 million was made available, with £1.6 million for the DWP and £4.5 million to help Defra to prepare for delivering the new chemicals framework. This represents a 60% increase on the 2019-20 financial year.

As many noble Lords will attest to, our chemicals sector is world-leading and vital for other key industries, such as the pharmaceutical, automotive and aerospace industries. We want to make sure that this continues. We also need to provide certainty for businesses in Northern Ireland to ensure both that the statute book is fully functional for the end of the year and that those businesses have unfettered access to the market in Great Britain. This instrument seeks to do that and meet our obligations under the protocol.

I am sure that noble Lords are all with me on the fact that we need to provide continuity and clarity to the chemicals industry following the end of the transition period. I want to ensure that legal requirements that apply in relation to chemicals regulations are clear and provide certainty to all. We must maintain our high level of protection in the workplace and for others, which this instrument will do.

I hope that I have covered all the points that were made. I will look at Hansard and, if there any points that I have not covered, I will make sure that noble Lords are written to.

Motion agreed.

Arcadia Pension Fund

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Drake]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that the Arcadia pension fund receives all of the contributions and assets agreed between its owners, any trustees and The Pension Regulator.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

As Arcadia has now gone into administration, the Pension Protection Fund, working with the Pensions Regulator, will now act in place of the trustees and will negotiate on behalf of the scheme to ensure that it is treated fairly compared to other creditors and gets what it is due. If the regulator thinks there has been wrongdoing, it may also be able to use its anti-avoidance powers to get redress.

[Baroness Drake (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Minister for her reply, but it gives little assurance on the £210 million of security agreed with Arcadia getting to the actual schemes. Covid has a major impact, yet large pension deficits have not just built up over the past nine months but over years, and there will be other companies who took out dividends and assets to a value much greater than deficit recovery payments made, leaving their pension schemes more vulnerable than they should be. Will the Government consider urgent amendments to the Companies Act so that directors’ duties to shareholders are subject to a responsibility to repair deficits to pension schemes? We will otherwise have endless cases such as Arcadia recurring.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I will need to take the issue relating to the Companies Act back to colleagues at BEIS, but we have the Pension Schemes Bill going through the House at the moment. There will be powers to ensure that we hold pension trustees to account, and I am sure that that will make a huge difference.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, further to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, about the deficits facing more and more pension funds, should we ask why they are being forced by regulation to invest more and more into government gilt-edged securities, which now have negative returns and are therefore guaranteed to lose pensioners money? Should we not instead be encouraging pension funds to invest in infrastructure, social housing and green projects to generate jobs, prosperity and growth?

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My noble friend is not alone, as witnessed by the endorsement of his points on how pension schemes should invest their money. However, the accounting standards ensure that a standard, objective measure applies to pension liabilities on company balance sheets. This is very different to the role of trustees when deciding on an investment strategy. It is up to trustees to have an investment strategy that suits the specific nature of their schemes. While gilts and bonds have lower returns, they are much less volatile than equity and can be useful as part of a diverse investment portfolio.

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

My noble friend will be aware that the high street has been under pressure for a long time. We also know that Philip Green has form when it comes to pensions. There will be great disquiet at the fact that this deficit has been allowed to build up. Can my noble friend give me a sense of the Government’s liabilities in this regard? What steps we are going to take to ensure that these funds are not again left in a vulnerable position, when we know well in advance that sectors are in severe difficulty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

There is no government liability, as the Pension Protection Fund is funded by the assets taken into it from schemes, topped up by a levy on eligible schemes. The PPF plans for the long term and, as at 31 March 2020, it had a healthy reserve of more than £6 billion.

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

The Minister correctly highlights the role of the Pension Protection Fund, and the employees of Arcadia can take some comfort from that. The problem is that the protection afforded by the fund is incomplete. To lose your job is bad enough; to lose part of your pension as well piles injury on injury. Can the Minister tell us what consideration is being given to improving the level of protection provided by the PPF?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

First, the noble Lord makes a good point about people losing their jobs, and I want to give absolute comfort to the whole House that the Department for Work and Pensions, through the rapid response team, stands ready to do all it can to help people in this very difficult time. On the second part of his question, we are doing as much as we can at the moment to help companies—through the Pensions Regulator and the Pension Protection Fund—to protect their assets and ensure that trustees act honourably in their duties.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

In answer to a similar question from me last week, the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist, said:

“Where there is evidence of bad practice, it is taken up through the relevant authorities.”—Official Report, 3/12/20; col. 835.]


Does the Minister agree that the Green family paying itself more than £1 billion while the pension fund is depleted of the money it needs is bad behaviour? If so, are the Government really satisfied that the Pensions Regulator has enough power to deal with those sorts of owners of those sorts of companies?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I understand the noble Lord’s point and the spirit in which he makes it, but it would be inappropriate for Ministers to comment at this stage on this individual case. It is too early to know the position of the pension scheme—whether there is a deficit or how big it is—and, indeed, whether anybody has behaved inappropriately. We need to let the Pension Protection Fund and the Pensions Regulator do their job. If there is any cause for concern, they have a range of powers which they will use.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, many Arcadia pension scheme members are facing possible job loss and uncertainty, which are the perfect conditions for scammers to exploit anxious people who are looking to access their pension savings. The experience of too many British Steel workers stands as a warning. Once savings are transferred out of the pension scheme, there is no way back and access to the PPF is gone. What active steps will the Government take to apply the lessons of the Rookes review to ensure that Arcadia scheme members are not exposed to financial advisers who may provide poor advice, nor persuaded to put their savings in the hands of fraudsters?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

As always, the noble Baroness raises an important point for people who are in difficult positions. Since January 2018, following its work on the British Steel pension scheme, the Financial Conduct Authority has been working closely with the Pensions Regulator and the Money and Pensions Service to ensure that they monitor pension transfer activity in defined benefit pension schemes that may be subject to increased transfer activity. The three organisations have increased the frequency of their meetings during Covid-19 to consider schemes at risk of higher transfer activity.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, let us be blunt. Debenhams collapsed after three ruthless vulture funds loaded it with debt and then cleaned it out to the tune of £1.2 billion in dividends. Arcadia was legally robbed by the Greens to the tune of another £1.2 billion in dividends. In the United States, the regulator would have gotten back every cent and they would all be serving life without parole. When are we in this country going to get some proper regulation and legislation to tackle people whose behaviour is de facto criminal, but at the moment technically legally okay?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I and the whole House absolutely agree that we need to ensure our legislation can deal with those who would plunder pension schemes. That is why we currently have a Pension Schemes Bill going through Parliament. Let me be clear. Where there is mishandling of a pension scheme, the Bill extends the Pensions Regulator’s sanction regime, introducing the power to issue civil penalties of up to £1 million and three new criminal offences, including a new sentence of up to seven years in prison for bosses who run pension schemes into the ground or plunder them to line their own pockets.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, we have just heard about the Pension Schemes Bill and its provisions. When will the new routes to contribution notices, new criminal offences and new information-gathering powers that the Bill makes available to the regulator be available? When the Bill comes into effect, will they be retrospective?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

To give the noble Lord a correct answer, I will need to go back to the department, especially on retrospective issues, and write to him. I will make the answer available to all noble Lords.

[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD) [V]]

I noticed that the Minister said that the Government had no liability, and she mentioned the word “honourable” in almost the same sentence. Does she agree that that is cold comfort for the 12,000 people who will have a terrible Christmas? She should perhaps contact the Prime Minister and try to get Philip Green’s knighthood revoked because he is clearly less than an honourable man.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

It would not be right for me to comment on individual cases, as I have already said. However, I should point out that a clear, independent process is in place for the forfeiture of an honour, and the final decision on whether to revoke one is made by an independent committee.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed, which brings an end to Question Time.

Social Security Co-ordination (Revocation of Retained Direct EU Legislation and Related Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Social Security Co-ordination (Revocation of Retained Direct EU Legislation and Related Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations, which concern policy areas of my department and Her Majesty’s Treasury, and apply UK-wide, were laid before both Houses on 16 November. They are required to clear the way for the legislation which will implement our new system of social security co-ordination with the EU, EEA states and Switzerland.

The current EU social security co-ordination regulations—I will refer to these as the SSC regulations—operate to facilitate the EU’s free movement rules. They ensure that individuals pay social security contributions in only one member state at a time; they set out which member state is responsible for the payment of social security benefits; they require the export of some benefits to claimants resident in the EU; and they provide for the aggregation of social security contributions when claiming certain benefits and the state pension. These rules require equal treatment for citizens across the EU, overriding any domestic legislation. They have continued to apply to the UK throughout the transition period.

As the Committee will be aware, the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Act came into force on 11 November 2020, Section 6 of which provides a power to modify these SSC regulations, which have been retained in UK law. Before I go into the detail of the draft regulations, I will provide the Committee further details on the context in which they are being made. I hope noble Lords will forgive the lack of originality in what I am about to say, which is very similar to the update provided by the Minister in the other place yesterday.

As I have stressed to your Lordships on a number of occasions, citizens covered by the withdrawal agreement and related agreements with the EEA and Switzerland will be unaffected by these regulations as long as they remain covered by those agreements. Arrangements in this area for UK and Irish nationals moving between the UK and Ireland will also continue unchanged under a recent reciprocal agreement with Ireland.

The Government are negotiating future arrangements with the EU, similar in kind to the social security relationships the UK has with nations outside the EU. This means that there will be changes in social security co-ordination policy with the EU from the end of the transition period, regardless of the outcome of negotiations. The Government have been clear about this, including as the ISSC Bill passed through Parliament and in public communications.

As the Committee will be aware, negotiations with the EU are at a very advanced stage. It is the Government’s position that new rules, whether or not there is a future agreement, should take effect from the end of the transition period. These regulations are a core part of our legislative preparation and will stand whatever the outcome. We are also in discussions on future social security co-ordination rules with a number of EEA states and Switzerland.

I will now summarise the regulations we are debating today. Part 1 sets out that the regulations come into force at the end of the transition period, with the exception of some amendments being remade in Part 4. These amendments will come into force on the day after the day on which the regulations are made.

Part 2 revokes the EU SSC regulations retained under Section 3 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and the unilateral fixing statutory instruments made under Section 8 of that Act. The fixing SIs were brought forward to prepare for a scenario in which the UK did not leave the EU with a withdrawal agreement and would have enabled the UK to operate some of the retained SSC regulations unilaterally, so far as possible. This revocation is in line with the approach the Government set out in the draft illustrative regulations shared with the House during the passage of the ISSC Bill.

This means that the rules for those individuals who are not covered by the withdrawal agreement and move between the UK and the EU, EEA states and Switzerland after the end of the transition period will be determined by any new international agreements in place or, in the absence of an international agreement, the respective domestic law in each country. For UK benefits this means, for example, that the UK will no longer export child benefit to children living in the EU, with the exception of Ireland, delivering on the manifesto commitment. For national insurance contributions this means that, where no reciprocal agreement applies, the rules on payment of national insurance contributions for individuals moving between the UK and the EU, the EEA and Switzerland will be the same as the rules for the rest of the world.

These regulations make four limited savings from the general revocation of the retained SSC regulations in Part 3. First, they save the retained SSC regulations on the co-ordination of benefits in kind; namely, health- care, which is a policy competence of the Department of Health and Social Care. DHSC has made separate secondary legislation in respect of the reciprocal healthcare aspects of the retained SSC regulations.

Secondly, they save the existing debt recovery provisions which will enable the UK to collect overpaid HMRC benefits and social security contributions on behalf of a foreign social security authority where the individual or employer is present in the UK, as part of a reciprocal agreement on social security. Full details of the specifics of these provisions have also been set out in public correspondence.

Thirdly, they save the retained SSC regulations to the extent necessary to provide for continued operation of the agreement on social security between the Governments of the UK and Gibraltar. I can confirm that it is the intention of the UK and Gibraltar Governments to agree a new relationship not based on the EU SSC regulations. Once that has been implemented, this saving will no longer be required and will later be revoked.

Fourthly, they save provisions relating to aggregation and uprating of the state pension in the absence of agreements being in place with the EU, EEA states and Switzerland by the end of the transition period. This saving will provide for continued state pension aggregation and uprating in those countries up to the end of the financial year 2021-22. In the absence of a future agreement with the EU, the UK would seek to put in place reciprocal agreements on social security with individual EU countries instead; even where such negotiations are progressing well, the saving may be needed for a short period beyond March 2022 to finalise and implement bilateral agreements. For this reason, the saving is not time limited. However, it is a strictly interim measure targeted at those who move to the EU, the EEA and Switzerland after the transition period, while future arrangements are put on a reciprocal footing.

Part 4 makes related amendments in other EU exit legislation. This includes bringing forward the day on which amendments will be made to Section 179 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 and the equivalent Northern Ireland Act. These amendments were previously made by the Social Security (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 and the equivalent Northern Ireland regulations, which are not revoked by this instrument. These amendments were otherwise due to come into effect at the end of the transition period.

While the UK has left the EU, we are not leaving the European Convention on Human Rights; in my view the provisions of the Social Security Co-ordination (Revocation of Retained Direct EU Legislation and Related Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020 are compatible with the convention.

In summary, these regulations make changes to prepare the statute book for the end of the transition period, particularly in relation to preventing the unilateral export of benefits, delivering on the manifesto commitment to prevent people claiming child benefit for children living outside the UK. They also ensure that the Government have the option to make a future social security co-ordination agreement with the EU through an Order in Council before the end of the transition period, should this be needed. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, for the information of those on remote calls, the first 90 seconds of the Minister’s speech were lost, but I think the gist of the speech was contained. If there are any particular issues that noble Lords wish to tease out during the questioning, I am sure the Minister will be happy to respond in her summing up. I call the first speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford. I understand she is having technical difficulties, so we will come back to her. We move on to the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia.

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[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock, Lady Ludford and Lady Janke, and the noble Lord, Lord Bhatia, for their contributions.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock asked about process and timing. I recognise that it is late in the transition period, but that is the nature of EU negotiations. Good progress has been made in this area, and we hope to get the deal over the line. The Government are prepared for all outcomes and have been communicating to citizens the importance of being prepared for rules in this area to change, in all scenarios.

While I acknowledge the points on the timing of the process, I have set out the baseline provisions that will apply on the state pension and national insurance contributions. There will be no unilateral measures in relation to other benefits where long-standing domestic rules do not already provide for this. These affirmative resolution regulations offer an opportunity for the House to scrutinise and approve the baseline that would apply in the absence of future agreement. The Government’s position is that it would not be appropriate to continue unilaterally to operate EU rules after we have left the EU and the transition period ends, in doing so creating different dates of change, additional cohorts and complexity for staff and citizens.

The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, talked about plans for bilateral agreements. As I set out, the Government would seek to put in place reciprocal agreements with member states swiftly if no agreement can be reached with the EU. As the Minister in the other place set out, securing reciprocal provisions on the state pension and national insurance contributions are priority areas for the DWP and HMRC but cannot be effectively operated on a unilateral basis. We would prefer a single deal with the EU, of course.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked how the future agreement would be implemented. The mechanism by which any future agreement will be implemented in the various circumstances we could yet find ourselves in remains under review. These regulations ensure—this is a point that the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, raised—that the Government can use existing powers for this purpose between now and the end of the year, should this be required.

We expect a number of social security benefits to no longer be exportable to the EU in future; this is in line with long-standing UK policy on certain benefits. Certain benefits, such as disability and unemployment benefits, are not exportable when an individual permanently leaves the UK even when there is a social security agreement in place, and in line with communications which the Government published on GOV.UK before the summer.

The noble Lord, Lord Bhatia, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Janke, raised the subject of impacts. As the Minister said in the other place yesterday, the Government remain committed to publishing an updated impact assessment once the outcome of negotiations is known. I can confirm that those impact assessments will be brought forward. Those covered by the withdrawal agreement are not impacted by this instrument. The measure does not impose any costs on business and ensures that once the SSC rules cease to apply between the UK and the EU, businesses can apply the standard rest of the world rules for national insurance where there is no reciprocal agreement.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, raised the question of students. The Government have provided guidance to all UK universities via Universities UK to make them aware of the need to communicate to EU students who have moved to start their courses in person in the UK by the end of the transition period that they will need to apply under the points-based immigration system. They will not be covered by the withdrawal agreement’s provisions on social security co-ordination and will be subject to any new reciprocal agreement with the EU or any individual member states.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, also asked about Gibraltar. I can confirm that the Government will seek a bilateral agreement with Gibraltar similar in kind to that agreed with Ireland.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Janke, raised the issue of healthcare. While that is a matter for the Department of Health and Social Care and not in scope of these regulations, the Government will assess their options for reciprocal healthcare if we do not achieve an EU-wide agreement. The Department of Health and Social Care is aware of the concerns of people with pre-existing health conditions and is carefully looking to the impact of any loss of necessary healthcare provisions.

On matters of governance, the UK’s proposed legal text, published in May, contains provisions on dispute resolution, data sharing and administrative co-operation between social security authorities. As is standard practice in international social security arrangements, we have been clear when it comes to future arrangements that there should be no CJEU oversight. We remain in close collaborative discussion with member states in this area through the administrative commission, which the UK continues to attend and will continue to attend in an observer capacity.

These regulations are an essential part of the legislative programme and have been laid in preparation for the end of the transition period, as we reset our relationship with the EU. Not proceeding with this legislation would result in the UK unilaterally operating EU rules after the end of the transition period, regardless of the negotiations. For the reasons I have set out, that would not be desirable.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, asked what would happen if there was no deal. If a British pensioner moves to the EU, the EEA or Switzerland in January 2021, their state pension will be uprated in April 2021. She also raised the issue of double contributions. On social security contributions, the standard rest of the world rules limit the possibility of UK-based employees working overseas and their employers being required to pay social security contributions in two countries at the same time to 52 weeks, while ensuring that they avoid creating gaps in their national insurance record in the UK for short periods of work overseas.

The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, raised the use of delegated powers. During the passage of the parent Act, I set out the exceptional circumstances under which we are operating, and shared draft illustrative regulations for scrutiny at that stage.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, talked about the primary purpose of the amendments for the 1992 Act being to provide powers to conclude an agreement with the EU. She asked whether we would need the revoked provisions again. No, we are saving the only provisions that we may need to rely on.

The noble Baroness asked what a deal would contain. We have set out our approach to negotiations and have been negotiating in line with that. In particular, we are seeking arrangements on state pension and national insurance contributions.

On the issue of consultation, the UK has left the EU and the Government have acted in response to the manifesto commitment to end free movement. The SSC regulations facilitate free movement between member states of the EU on a reciprocal basis. The Government have repeatedly set out an approach to seeking a deal with the EU in this area to reflect the agreements that we have with countries outside the EU. There have been a number of publications to this effect, including our approach to negotiations published on 27 February. The UK has a long-standing policy in relation to the exportability of benefits, and negotiations with the EU have been consistent with that policy.

I thank again all noble Lords for their contributions to the debate on this SI. We will look at Hansard and make sure that we have answered all questions. If we have not, we will write to noble Lords—and, in that instance, I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Universal Credit

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 1st December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact on families of not maintaining the £1,000 uplift of Universal Credit.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have introduced a raft of temporary measures to support those hardest hit, including the furlough scheme, the Self-employment Income Support Scheme and the £20 UC uplift. With the uplift confirmed until the end of March 2021, my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer set out last week why it is right that we wait for more clarity on the national economic and social picture before he decides on the best way to support low- income families from 1 April. I stress to the House that discussions are very much ongoing with Her Majesty’s Treasury.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab) [V]]

If those who lost their jobs last April could not be expected to live on £73 a week, will the Minister explain why it is enough for people losing their jobs next April? There is overwhelming support for the £20 uplift for the poorest families in the country. Why are the Government changing the rules in the middle of a pandemic and a recession? How will they address children going hungry?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I understand the noble Baroness’s concern over those hardest hit by the pandemic, especially their income, but it is not right to say that we are changing course. All we are confirming at the moment, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer set out last week, is that we wait for more clarity on the national economic and social picture before making the decision on the best way to support low-income families.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Monks. No? Then I call the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Goss Moor.

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[Lord Taylor of Goss Moor (LD) [V]]

I welcome the fact that the Minister has stressed that this is under current review, because if these payments are not maintained at a time when we can see what is happening in many low-paid jobs—even today in retail in particular —the evidence is that half a million more people will go into deep poverty and more than that will be brought into poverty. There is some urgency though, because people need to know where they stand as they see debts building up and struggle to take themselves through Christmas, so I hope that Ministers will take an early decision on this and not wait till the last minute.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I note the point about the timing of any decision, but that is with my friend in the other place, the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Government are redoubling and trebling our efforts for those people who have found themselves in difficulty, including the people from Debenhams and Arcadia who are concerned for their futures, to get people back to work. We are completely focused on it. We have doubled the number of work coaches; we have Kickstart; we have the youth offer; we have sector-based work academies; and the Jobcentre Plus staff, the work coaches and the employment teams are engaging with employers to make sure that we have every vacancy we can get and we get people back to work as quickly as we can.

[Lord Farmer (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we should keep at the forefront of our thinking that universal credit was designed not to trap people in benefits dependency but to give them every help and incentive to get back into work. This has perhaps never been more important, both for individual morale and to enable economic recovery. What is the DWP doing to support people to get back into employment and enable the economy to recover from the financial impact of Covid?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for reminding us about the principles of universal credit and, at the same time, of the difficult circumstances that people find themselves in. I stress again that we are providing help through dedicated work coaches and engagement with employers. We are supporting people back into work in a whole host of ways, not least the 250,000 green jobs that we want to create. We do not want to trap people on benefits; we want to help them.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as the chair of Feeding Britain. We estimate that if this £20-a-week lifeline is pulled, up to 700,000 people will be pushed into poverty, including 300,000 kids. The NHS is creaking at the seams, but so is the food bank system that has become so endemic in our country. If the Government are taking this money away, what plan do they have to ensure that hungry kids get enough to eat?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

At the risk of repeating myself, I say that we are waiting for the Chancellor to assess the situation before making a decision about how best to support low-income families. As for what we are doing for children, there are free school meal vouchers and we are providing £16 million for food charities to get food to those who are struggling and 4.5 million food boxes for vulnerable people. We are expanding free school meals, establishing a new £1 billion fund to create more high-quality, affordable childcare and putting £35 million into the national school breakfast programme. We are not taking our foot off the accelerator on any support we give.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I watched the BBC news report from Burnley last night and I am not ashamed to say that I cried through it. It showed children so hungry that they were ripping open bags of donated food before they hit the floor. There was a vicar sobbing at the level of need around him. People are desperate, so I ask the Minister: has the DWP modelled the impact of cutting £1,000 from the incomes of 6 million families in the middle of a pandemic and a recession, when unemployment is still rising? Will she join me in meeting people who are providing food on the front line to poor communities, so that we can both hear what they really need from their Government?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

First, I affirm that, as always, I am very happy to meet people, as the noble Baroness suggested. The Chancellor has said that, once we have a better understanding of the impact of the £20 uplift on the social and economic situation, he will make his assessment and decide what to do.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, given that people with disabilities have had a particularly tough time during the pandemic, can my noble friend say whether any additional support is given to that group?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I can confirm that the DWP continues to support vulnerable groups, such as people with disabilities, through a series of safeguards and easements aimed at simplifying and improving their interaction with the benefits system. For ESA claimants, we have launched the New Style ESA online portal, which allows the majority of people who need to claim to do so online. Everyone infected with Covid-19 or required to self-isolate in line with government guidelines will be treated as having limited capability for work in ESA, without the requirement for fit notes or a work capability assessment.

[Baroness Meacher (CB) [V]]

My Lords, will the Minister consider the plight of families thrown into unemployment because of the pandemic who are subject to the cap? My understanding is that these families have not benefited from the £20 uplift to universal credit. They have very little—perhaps a few pounds a week—once they have paid their rent. Would it not be fair to raise the level of the cap by £20 a week to try to help these desperately needy families?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The Government believe that the benefit cap restores fairness between those receiving out-of-work benefits and taxpayers in employment. The noble Baroness raises an important issue that we should continue to consider, but we ought also to consider that the benefit cap statistics that have come out and show an increase in the number of people impacted are unacceptable, but also not surprising when we have a 600% increase in the number of those who have gone on to universal credit. We have also increased the local housing allowance rates.