Universal Credit: Court of Appeal Judgment

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, universal credit works on fixed assessment periods. But if, like NHS workers, you get paid at the end of the month, you can find two pay days falling in one universal credit period. The system then assumes that you have had a 100% pay rise and slashes your benefit, or even stops it altogether, thinking that you are now too rich to need it. We have raised this with Ministers repeatedly, but to no avail. It should not take four single mums going all the way to the Court of Appeal to have this obviously daft policy declared irrational. How will the Government find and compensate all those who have lost out? When will the system be changed to stop this happening in future?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con) [V]]

I can advise the noble Baroness that, during our consideration of the outcome of the court’s verdict, we will consider any necessary retrospective payments.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

Will the Minister confirm that as many as 85,000 claimants are affected by this judgment? Will she confirm that the Government will publish an action list, detailing when and how the claimants affected by this ruling will cease to be subject to these wild fluctuations in income? Will she also undertake to look into the support available to people in arrears with their rent, or suffering from other financial penalties, as a result of this “irrational and unlawful” action, to use the words of the judge who delivered the verdict, Lady Justice Rose?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I am pleased to say that the figure of 85,000 that the noble Baroness refers to is not one that resonates with us. We believe that the number of people impacted by this judgment is in the region of 1,000. We are assessing the situation. We got the judgment only on Monday, but we will keep the House fully up to date with decisions made in relation to it.

[Baroness Stroud (Con) [V]]

Will my noble friend the Minister outline what assessment has been made of the resilience and ability of the universal credit system to process such significant increases in applications in recent weeks? Has the digital design of universal credit enabled it to support an unprecedented number of people in recent months?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I can tell my noble friend Lady Stroud that we have been amazed and pleased that the universal credit digital system has shown enormous resilience. We have had a 600% increase in claims, and the vast majority of people have been paid in full and on time. Without wishing to be disrespectful in any way, this would never have happened under the legacy system.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, last week, the Minister promised MPs that

“everything is on the table”,—[Official Report, Commons, 25/6/20; col. 1462.]

except, it would seem, the monthly assessment itself, even though it does not align with the reality of the working lives of the many claimants paid more frequently, and bases a month’s entitlement on personal circumstances from a single day. This is another example of irrationality and inflexibility. As well as fixing the immediate problem urgently, will the Government undertake a longer-term review of the monthly assessment?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

It may be helpful if I repeat for the House the Answer that my friend the Minister for Welfare Delivery gave in the other place last week. He said:

“I am absolutely determined to find a fix to this issue … a number of items are in the pipeline, ready to be changed on universal credit. Despite criticism from Opposition Members, we have made significant changes to universal credit, and much more is to come, such as the roll-on of legacy benefits next month, which will benefit people to the tune of £200. Those are all in the pipeline to be done, and this will be added to that. I will try to expedite it as much as I possibly can”.—[Official Report, Commons, 25/6/20; col. 1460.]

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, will the Minister, along with her ministerial colleagues in the DWP, use this opportunity to have a root and branch review of social security policy, to ensure a refocus on the needs of people—many of whom have been reliant on food banks for a long time—a financial uplift of universal credit benefit and caution on the use of the digital system?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I assure the noble Baroness that the issues and successes coming out of universal credit are continually under review. However, I will take her specific question back to the department and will write to her with an answer.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is clear that the department should put right the particular matter identified by the Court of Appeal. I note that the Minister thinks that some 1,000 cases are involved. However, does she agree that the universal credit system has stood up very well to the severe challenges posed by the consequences of coronavirus?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I assure my noble friend and the whole House that the universal credit system has stood up well to the increased demand of 600% additional cost. I have repeated the Answer that my ministerial colleague gave in the other House. We are determined to find a fix for this. We will keep the House updated, but we will need time to consider the judgment, which was issued only last Monday.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister, who is usually very helpful on these kinds of questions, has not answered the questions put by my noble friend. If the computer system is as agile as she and her colleagues keep claiming it is, why can it not resolve this single issue quickly and give these people the justice they deserve? When will she answer the single, simple question: when will it be resolved?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I say again to the noble Lord that we are considering the judgment. We are working at pace to find a fix. The universal credit system, which has dealt with a massive increase in applicants, who have been paid, has been agile and flexible to do so. Some issues need to be overcome. They need a digital solution rather than a manual one. We have concentrated on paying people in these very difficult times, but I assure the noble Lord that a digital fix will be found as soon as it can.

[Lord Balfe (Con) [V]]

My Lords, people made severe criticism of the digital system of universal credit when it was introduced, but it seems that this design has enabled it to support an unprecedented number of people in recent months—the huge increase the Minister referred to. Would she agree that we could not possibly have done this without the digital changes made by this Government?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I completely agree with my noble friend. We would never have coped with the increase in demand in universal credit claimants had we not had the digital UC system.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, the problem has been evident for years, so the Government have yet to explain why they kept fighting to defend this “unlawful” and “unfair” system, in the words of the judge. Crucially, would the Minister accept that whenever you have a conditional payment scheme, some people will unfairly miss out? No system can be “agile and flexible”, in her words, to ensure that everyone has a fair, secure payment. Only a universal basic income would do that.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. We have never, ever suggested that the universal credit system is 100% perfect, but it has absolutely delivered in terms of paying the increased numbers we have. She has raised universal basic income on previous occasions. Our position has not changed: we have no plans to bring it in because it would disincentivise people to look for work and the cost would be astronomical.

[Baroness Altmann (Con) [V]]

I congratulate my noble friend on the tremendous work of her department in coping with the unprecedented number of new universal credit claims. Could she confirm that more than 1 million people have been able to receive an advanced first payment, giving them support in just a few days? Does she agree that this has been vital to prevent hardship during this crisis period?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

The Government have worked at pace to ensure that money gets to people in a timely manner to avoid hardship and as many difficulties as we can. I can confirm that 1 million applications for advances have been made available to people who need them quickly. The advances are interest-free and repayable over 12 months at the moment, but as of next year this will go up to 24 months.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, that completes all the supplementary questions on the Urgent Question repeat.

Covid-19: Child Poverty

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 15th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking during the COVID-19 pandemic to prevent any increase in child poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, in addition to the £5 billion increase in benefit rates from April 2020, this Government have introduced an unprecedented package of support of over £6.5 billion to help families on benefits cope with the financial impact of Covid-19. This has increased universal credit and benefited over 4 million of the most vulnerable households; it has increased the local housing allowance rate, putting an average of £600 into people’s pockets; there is a £16 million grant to provide food for those struggling; Defra has put £3.5 million into food charities; and on 10 June the Prime Minister announced a £63 million fund to local authorities for a local welfare assistance programme. The Government are doing everything they can in these difficult times.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the pandemic is nevertheless having a disproportionate economic impact on low-income families, as child poverty grows and deepens. Last week, the official Social Mobility Commission warned that the Government urgently need to recognise that benefit cuts to families with children are increasing child poverty. On top of these cuts, including the two-child limit and the benefit cap, there is no extra weekly financial support for children during the crisis. Can the Minister therefore explain how these policies, which effectively discriminate against children, will help meet the manifesto goal to reduce child poverty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I accept that the Social Mobility Commission report has highlighted some important poverty issues and gaps, but compared with 2010—notwithstanding the Covid-19 virus—there are 100,000 fewer children living in absolute poverty. We are taking action in 20 targeted areas to open up more opportunities and investing £90 million in activities to address disparities in youth unemployment. As for the benefit cap and all the important points that the noble Baroness has continued to make—and I have done everything I can to give her access to people to talk about it—I have no update other than has previously been given.

[Baroness Verma (Con) [V]]

My Lords, sadly, my home city of Leicester has communities among the poorest in the country. Will my noble friend look at how she, with her colleagues in local government, can help support hard-working families who are furloughed and struggling to provide basic needs to their children by looking at reducing their council tax bills for 12 months after the pandemic has ended? It does not help that we have seen a more than 4% increase in council tax bills in Leicester, alongside other utility increases.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I am well aware of the situation in Leicester; there has been much in the press about it. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting hard-working families. While any reduction in council tax relates to MHCLG, I am pleased that the Government have provided significant funding to reduce council tax bills for a short period. I will write to the noble Baroness on that.

[Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho (CB) [V]]

There are currently about 700,000 children with no access to internet facilities at home. On 20 April, the Education Secretary announced a £100 million fund to ease this problem. Can the Minister please tell me what percentage of this fund has been distributed and how many families there are left to help?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I completely understand the point the noble Baroness is making. To answer her question, I will need to go away, get the facts and write to her.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, as well as the Social Mobility Commission, the Minister could have cited the IPPR calculations that the pandemic could put 200,000 more children in poverty this year, the Trussell Trust figures showing the numbers of families with kids needing emergency food parcels twice as high as this time last year, or even the powerful open letter from Marcus Rashford today highlighting child hunger. I am sure the Minister is doing her best, but if the Government will not buy our proposals to suspend the two-child limit and the benefit cap, what is the Government’s alternative to stop more kids in Britain going hungry?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I am aware of the letter and the Trussell Trust figures the noble Baroness refers to, but we have put more money into helping with food poverty, as I have said before. We had an all-Peers briefing about universal credit at which the two-child limit and benefit cap were talked about at great length. I am sorry that I cannot add anything to that at the moment.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

Half the total number of children in one-parent families are in poverty; the pandemic is disproportionately affecting these families. What specific measures will the Government take to improve the circumstances of these doubly disadvantaged children?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

My Lords, our current focus is on supporting people financially through these unprecedented times. We are actively reviewing all measures at our disposal to identify how we can best support the economic recovery and ensure that the best possible employment support is in place. We will continue to look at these things. We understand the impact on single parents and lone parents, and I assure the House that the Government are doing everything they can at the moment to help in these difficult times.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham [V]]

My Lords, children in families with no recourse to public funds are at increased risk of facing poverty due to the pandemic. The increases the Government have announced do not offer support to the thousands of children whose parents have “no recourse to public funds” attached to their immigration status, making them extremely vulnerable to the pandemic’s effects. Will Her Majesty’s Government consider lifting the NRPF condition to protect children from poverty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

The changes we have made to the welfare system are part of a broader range of measures brought in across government to meet the need of those affected by Covid-19. We are doing all we can. The Home Office recently lost a judicial review case—not entirely on the subject of NRPF—but we continue to review the situation.

[Baroness Stroud (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we know that families in which two parents are working full-time are the least likely to be in poverty and that over the last few years there has been significant progress in supporting lone parents out of poverty, with a reduction in the number of lone parents in poverty. What steps are the Government taking to support lone parents during this time, when many on low incomes have been furloughed or had their hours reduced, and to protect fragile couple relationships—which we know have been under strain during Covid—to prevent a future impact on child poverty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I have already mentioned the unprecedented fiscal package we have at our disposal to deal with this, but I would also like to talk about the Reducing Parental Conflict programme, which has a key role in supporting families during this challenging time. We are working with local delivery partners to ensure that the programme continues to be delivered during social distancing restrictions and being flexible and innovative in the ways we can reach families that require support to minimise the negative impacts of conflict on outcomes for children.

[Lord Whitty (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, others have referred to the troubling consequence of child poverty on children’s diets. The Minister says nothing more can be done, but the free school meal vouchers system ends in July, whereas the prolonged lockdown is now turning into the prolonged holiday. We need provision of free school meals and support for access to food, such as brunch clubs and breakfast clubs, all the way through to September. Why cannot the Government do what has been done in Wales and provide more such facilities for children in deprived areas here in England?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

We are aware that the free school meal vouchers scheme is working for thousands of schools. I am pleased to say it has been reported that more than £120 million-worth of vouchers have been used. Under the benefits-related criteria, 1.3 million of the most disadvantaged children are eligible for and claiming free school meals. It is a matter for the DfE, so I will get my noble friend Lady Berridge to respond to that important point.

Universal Credit

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

The universal credit assessment period and payment structure are fundamental parts of its design. An assessment period must run its course, which includes a feed of earnings data from HMRC, before an award reflecting actual household circumstances can be calculated. This can be achieved only by having a model based on paying in arrears, and we have no plans to change that.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. There have been 2.8 million claimants for universal credit since lockdown, and I fear many more will come. They are all being hit by the five-week wait. The Resolution Foundation found that on average, people going on to universal credit see their disposable income almost halved. All Ministers will offer is an advance, but that pushes people into debt and asks them to live on less than universal credit for a whole year to repay the debt. The Government have steadfastly resisted a deluge of calls from across the board to abolish the five-week wait or at least to turn advances into grants that do not have to be repaid. Why will they not do it?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Non-repayable advances cannot be implemented without significant development of the universal credit system. No one has to wait five weeks. Advances are available urgently. The repayment schedule is to be extended to 24 months in 2021. Repayment can be delayed by three months in certain circumstances, and we removed the seven-day waiting period. This is all backed up by support from work coaches.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, given the greatly increased burden on the DWP, can my noble friend indicate what measures are being taken to ensure that the benefits system can cope?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I am pleased to be able to tell the House that we have seen unprecedented hard work and dedication by the staff of the DWP to make sure that the unprecedented number of claims have been paid in a timely and efficient manner. Our system is standing up to the challenge, and I am pleased to say that we have redeployed staff and introduced more IT equipment. Our highest priority is to pay the benefits that people need, and we are coping with that.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chair of Feeding Britain, which has found that the poorest groups in our society are the only ones who have suffered a reduction in disposable income. They cannot afford to wait these five weeks. Will the Minister set a long-term target of reducing this wait and a short-term goal of introducing, with immediate effect, the department’s policy, which is not due to take effect until October 2021, of further easing the rate of repayment of advances?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point and I understand where she is coming from, but I must tell her that there are no plans to do as she requests. Bringing forward the October 2021 easement is not something I have heard discussed, but I am happy to go back to the department and find out.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, according to a recent Resolution Foundation survey, two-fifths of new UC claimants had not asked for an advance because they feared getting into debt—and debt it is, albeit interest-free. Will the Government therefore follow the foundation’s advice and at the very least suspend repayments for some months, following the welcome precedent set with other debt repayments, which shows that it is administratively possible, and if not, why not?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Non-repayable advances cannot be implemented without significant changes to the system; this is not currently our policy intent. Funding to do it would be needed from the Treasury, costing an estimated £2 billion to £2.7 billion. With an advance, there are 13 payments over a year instead of 12, and as of next year the period over which advances have to be repaid will be extended from 12 months to 24 months.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

People who are suddenly faced with zero income are unable either to wait five weeks for funds or to repay an advance by receiving lower payments, as required by universal credit. Will the Government consider providing an additional dedicated hardship fund via local authorities to provide immediate relief for people in urgent need?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The issue of a local hardship fund has been raised and there is a recommendation for it to be put in place. I am afraid that we will have to wait for the outcome of those deliberations.

[The Lord Bishop of Chelmsford]

My Lords, the problems of the five-week wait have already been highlighted by other noble friends, and we should not underestimate their seriousness, but perhaps I may draw attention to some other temporary changes in universal credit. There has been an increase of £20 per week, which Ministers have stressed is a temporary, emergency measure, but the IPPR has calculated that if this had been in place since 2015, the UK would have entered this crisis with a pretty staggering 500,000 fewer people in poverty. Do Her Majesty’s Government plan to make this increase in universal credit a permanent feature, particularly as it would be such a help to children?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

My answer to the right reverend Prelate is that I know of no intention to make it a permanent arrangement.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend explain the measures that are in place to support claimants with their housing costs?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

We have increased the local housing allowance to cover the lowest 30th percentile of the local market, and alternative payment arrangements to landlords have been put in place. If claimants have great difficulties, they can speak to their work coach or client adviser, who, if there is a way to help them, will do their best to find it.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, the five-week wait has significantly increased household debt and anxiety as a result of council tax arrears. Will the Minister please press the Government to issue clear guidance to local authorities that collection and enforcement activity on council tax arrears, including all bailiff contact, should be suspended for a minimum of three months?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I am happy to take that point back to the department and will write to the noble Baroness in due course.

[Lord Desai (Lab)]

Given that the Chancellor has shown flexibility in designing his deal for the unemployed, will the Government consider suspending, at least temporarily, all the cuts which people on universal credit have had to suffer and which, in any case, should have been removed? Will they suspend them for, say, another 18 months?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I do not wish to be negative in any way but I have no knowledge of the Government considering that. Therefore, I am unable to say more than I have already said.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted (LD)]

Does not the mechanics of the whole-month approach to changes in circumstances create arbitrary fluctuations in income that are hard for those on low incomes to manage?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I am not sure that I agree with the noble Baroness about the complexities of the changes. As we have made clear all along, we are trying to make the universal credit system replicate the world of work. However, I am aware that people on low incomes have difficulties, and I assure the noble Baroness that the Government want to do all they can to help them.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend expand a little on the previous question and explain how the structure of monthly payments compares with the legacy system, which had much shorter time- scales?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Universal credit is simpler and fairer than the legacy system. It is designed to target resources at those who need them the most and to provide support for people who cannot work. There is a monthly reconciliation, which we are absolutely clear is better than the annual reconciliation.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. I offer my congratulations to all concerned, as we have got through all 10 questions. We come to the second Oral Question, from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson.

Unemployment: Support

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

Without wishing to denigrate the size of the issue that we are facing, I make the point that although we have 2 million new claims to universal credit, this does not equate to the number of people who are becoming unemployed. Some are claiming because they are on part-time hours or their pay has decreased. Government employment Ministers are engaging with all government departments, businesses, stakeholders and front-line staff, to hear their views, learn from them, listen to ideas and make sure that we can provide the best possible support in this difficult time. I can assure all noble Lords that much is going on across government and that, in time, we will update the House with our progress.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, those 2 million claims are up 856,000 in a month, and with one-quarter of the workforce on furlough this could get a lot worse soon. I welcome the changes that the Government have made but they do not match the scale of the crisis. People are losing jobs and hours but finding that the standard rate of universal credit is only £94 a week and the JSA just £74. When will the Government remove the savings threshold for universal credit and level up legacy benefits? Crucially, what is their plan to stop rising unemployment leading to home repossessions and widespread poverty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I am unaware of any plans to change the savings threshold at present, nor indeed to level up legacy benefits. The noble Baroness is right to keep us focused on the potential size of the problem that could be coming down the road, and I assure the House that we are closely monitoring the evolving labour market and the public health situation to identify and implement the most effective way to help people to stay in work and stay close to work.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, many unemployed workers will not benefit from the additional financial support that has been announced because of the benefit cap, despite the grace period. Last week the Minister failed to answer my noble friend Lady Sherlock’s question as to why the Government are refusing to lift the cap during the crisis. Could she therefore answer it now and explain what purpose the cap serves when the labour market has “collapsed”, to quote the IFS, and moving home is not a realistic option?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

As it stands, the Government are not going to change the benefit cap, but it will be reviewed at some point. The noble Baroness’s point about people’s circumstances in terms of loss of income and not being able to move house is a very fair one; I thank her for raising it and I will take it back to the department. Tomorrow we have the all-Peers briefing with the Minister for Welfare Delivery, and I urge the noble Baroness to raise this point yet again.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

What will the Government do to address the needs of under-25s and care leavers who find themselves on zero income and are currently treated unfairly under universal credit?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The issue of care leavers is very important. We are providing a range of support. I am not aware of any changes to our position on universal credit regarding them, but I will take the matter back to the department and write to the noble Baroness.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, I am concerned about young people, so I ask my noble friend what tools are available to help young people looking for employment to match their skills to current labour market vacancies.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The Government have announced a National Skills Fund of £2.5 billion so that we can continue to upskill young people. Jobcentres are continuing to support them through these difficult times: they have started to re-engage with new and existing claimants and are reviewing all measures at their disposal. The DWP is in discussions with local partners, national partners and the Youth Employment Group set up by the Prince’s Trust. More importantly, we are working with all departments across Whitehall to make sure that a range of appropriate support is available to young people, including those from complex backgrounds, as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Janke.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, what assessment is being made of those currently unemployed and those facing imminent unemployment, particularly people with disabilities and autism? Can the Minister assure the House that her department, particularly post lockdown, will ensure that adequate financial support is made available to NGOs specialising in preparing specifically young disabled people for work and supporting them in it? Will she consider meeting the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Disability on this issue once she is available?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I will answer the noble Baroness’s last point first: of course, I am prepared to meet groups that are trying to help people in this very difficult position. I am sorry that I am not in a position to make financial commitments, but I can say that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have made it clear that we will do whatever it takes to help those affected by Covid-19. We are keeping the situation under continuous review.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, the level of unemployment that we are confronting is, frankly, unthinkable. We know that even before this crisis many individuals and families were literally one pay cheque away from financial disaster. Noble Lords may not know just how low benefits are and how impossible they are to live on. We as a society have to find the resources to ensure that people can keep a roof over their heads, food on the table and clothes on their backs. Will the Government therefore convert universal credit advances into grants and end the five-week wait?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The noble Baroness asks about converting advances into grants. I am sorry to say that the Government have no plans to do that. On the five-week period, no one has to wait five weeks for their money, but the five-week wait is an integral part of the design of universal credit. The Government are cognisant of the difficult situations that people find themselves in and are doing everything they can to support them in this difficult time.

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is essential that government regulators and creditors work together to ensure that unemployed people who fall behind on essential bills and credit commitments are protected from falling into unsustainable debt by an immediate pause on all forms of collection and enforcement activity?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I agree with the local Baroness that we must all work together to support those who are in debt. When it comes to suspending enforcement, there are very difficult questions and answers. I would like to go away and write to the noble Baroness after this Question on the specific point that she raises.

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

Like other noble Lords, I am concerned about young people. Will the Minister be more specific about extra support, such as the transitional funding for training, support for the many disrupted apprenticeship schemes and perhaps reintroduction of Labour’s Future Jobs Fund, with guaranteed offers of work for, say, six months? Surely she will agree that improving their future careers would help us all through higher productivity, higher standards and fewer benefits paid.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I completely agree with the noble Lord that we must invest in young people’s future careers, and I take his point about the Future Jobs Fund. I can only reiterate what I have said: we are doing everything that we can to help young people re-enter the labour market.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, many of the self-employed in the hospitality and tourism sectors in rural areas such as North Yorkshire have suffered great losses. What support is being given to the self-employed in situations where they might have lost the greater part of the season, which is comparatively short? Are the Minister and the department braced for the next wave of major losses when the furlough scheme comes to an end?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

With regard to the hospitality sector, I assure the noble Baroness and the whole House that the Department for Work and Pensions is looking at what can be done to support people in it. With regard to a second wave, we will continue to respond in the way that we have done up to now.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, I regret that the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. I sincerely thank noble Lords and Ministers today. That concludes the Virtual Proceedings on Oral Questions. The Virtual Proceedings will resume at a convenient point after 12.45 pm for the Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Dobbs, but for the time being proceedings are adjourned.

Automatic Enrolment (Offshore Employment) (Amendment) Order 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Virtual Proceedings do consider the draft Automatic Enrolment (Offshore Employment) (Amendment) Order 2020.

The Motion was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak also to the draft Occupational and Personal Pension Schemes (Automatic Enrolment) (Amendment) Regulations 2020. I am pleased to introduce these instruments, which were laid before the House on 16 March, alongside my Written Statement of the same date setting out their purpose and effect. These instruments implement the conclusions of a 2018 statutory post-implementation review. The review concluded that automatic enrolment into workplace pensions should continue for eligible employees in the maritime industries, ensuring them access to a pension in the same way as workers in the rest of the UK economy. Subject to the approval of the House, the instruments will remove the sunset clauses contained in the original 2012 legislation so that it continues in force beyond the current expiry date of 1 July 2020. I am satisfied that the Automatic Enrolment (Offshore Employment) (Amendment) Order 2020 and the Occupational and Personal Pension Schemes (Automatic Enrolment) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 are compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights.

Today’s debate relates to the operation of the automatic enrolment policy framework and will allow the Government to deliver on the conclusions of the 2018 post-implementation review, which recommended that seafarers and offshore workers remain within the scope of workplace pensions. As we are all too well aware, this is a difficult time for our citizens, our country and our economy. Many employers and workers face unprecedented challenges and trying their best to keep going and meet their legal obligations, including those relating to workplace pensions. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor have made clear that the Government will do whatever it takes to support workers and businesses as they deal with the impact of the coronavirus pandemic, and that no-one should be penalised for doing the right thing.

As part of the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, the Government have made available dedicated grant payments for the compulsory minimum employer automatic enrolment contributions for furloughed workers. We have prioritised this help so that businesses can better manage their fixed costs and to support the principle of saving for the future, which it is important not to lose sight of during the current crisis.

The Chancellor announced on 12 May that the scheme would be extended to the end of October. It will continue in its current form to the end of July, with changes to allow more flexibility introduced from the start of August. The Government have committed to provide more specific details on the next stage of the scheme by the end of May.

The Pensions Act 2008 and secondary legislation in 2011 brought most employers within the scope of automatic enrolment and placed duties on them with respect to qualifying workers in their employ. At that time, the Government decided to delay the extension of these duties to the maritime industries to allow time for resolution of complex issues relating to the operation of international maritime law and custom, as these impacted how the workplace pension reforms would apply to seafarers and offshore workers.

In 2012, following additional public consultation on the specific impacts of the policy on these industries, the Government introduced regulations and an Order in Council to extend automatic enrolment to all qualifying maritime workers. This legislation included a statutory requirement for a post-implementation review, as well as the inclusion of sunset clauses in the instrument, taking effect on 1 July 2020.

The post-implementation review was carried out in 2018. Based on the available evidence, the Minister for Pensions and Financial Inclusion concluded that automatic enrolment should continue to apply to all qualifying workers in this industry sector. This followed on from our automatic enrolment review in 2017, Maintaining the Momentum, which had confirmed that workplace pensions should be available to all eligible workers, regardless of who their employer is or the sector in which they work.

Looking specifically at the maritime industries, I should make clear that “seafarers” refers to people working on board ships or hovercraft. This does not include share fishermen as they are self-employed and, like all self-employed people, out of the scope of automatic enrolment because they do not have an employer. Offshore workers are, broadly speaking, those working on oil or gas rigs in the North Sea.

I have considered the need to include a review clause in the instruments before the House today. The success of automatic enrolment is based on pension saving being the default option for working people across all sectors of the UK economy. A new review requirement applying to only the maritime industries would be counter to the policy objectives of these reforms and would create uncertainty for employers in those sectors and their workers. I have therefore not included one. The Department for Work and Pensions will of course continue to work closely with employers, workers’ representatives and the pensions industry to keep the policy under regular review, as we do with all our policy initiatives.

I conclude by reiterating the crucial importance of these workplace pension reforms, which are helping millions of employees in the UK to save for their retirement. This includes an estimated additional 26,000 seafarers and offshore workers saving into a workplace pension in 2019 as a result of automatic enrolment. I commend these instruments to the House and I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their thoughtful and constructive comments, including those who issued a challenge to the Government. I remind noble Lords that in my opening speech I said that the Prime Minister and Chancellor have made clear that the Government will do whatever it takes to support workers and businesses as they deal with the impact of the coronavirus pandemic and that nobody should be penalised for doing the right thing. As the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, just asked, I will endeavour to answer as many points as I can. Where I cannot, I will write to all noble Lords with answers to their questions.

Let me clear up the issue of the Statement to the House. I think the best I can do for the noble Baroness on that is to go back and talk to the Minister for Pensions and the Secretary of State and come back to her.

The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, is so well respected in this field. She spoke about automatic enrolment and our commitment. We have made wage support available to assist all businesses across the regions and sectors of the economy. We believe that this is the best way to support businesses and their workers during the current crisis. The Government will continue to monitor closely the impact of workplace pensions on businesses during the current period. Our objective is to continue to support employers and to balance the needs of businesses and savers, while being mindful of wider economic factors.

The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, and my noble friend Lord Bourne asked about numbers, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock. An estimated 29,000 workers in the maritime industries will be automatically enrolled into a workplace pension by their employer as a result of these instruments, and of them 26,000 will not opt out. This breaks down into 18,000 seafarers and 8,000 offshore workers. Across the whole economy, more than 10 million workers have been automatically enrolled into a workplace pension scheme. I will write to the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, on the other points he raised and to my noble friend Lord Bourne on fiscal relief.

The noble Baroness, Lady Burt, asked why the sunset clause was in the legislation to start with, but the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, answered my homework there quite well. It was done because there were still complex issues that needed to be addressed and it enabled the legislation to go forward. The noble Baroness also asked about cruise ships, as did my noble friend Lady Fookes. I will go away and get the up-to-date position and write to noble Lords with the outcome.

My noble friend Lady Anelay raised two important points. On the first, the DWP considered stakeholder proposals on the design of a specific ordinary working test for seafarers during the post-implementation review consultation. However, these proposals would have created additional administrative complexity for employers in the maritime industries. Additionally, treating workers in the maritime sector differently from other workers is contrary to the policy design of AE.

My noble friend also asked about employers that are charities and voluntary bodies. The maritime industries are a small sector compared to the overall economy and there is no direct data on the varying size and types of employers in these industries. Therefore, the DWP impact assessment for these instruments makes assumptions about the impact of workplace pension duties across different employer sizes in these industries, based on the broad level of employer contribution across the whole country.

My noble friend Lady Fookes talked about the nationality of some of the people in the maritime industry and the impact of these regulations. The nationality of the worker, and whether their employer is foreign based or owned, is not relevant; it is not an issue. On the point she made about consolidation, no change is taking place. The instrument removed the sunset clause from existing legislation, so it continues to apply. This could not be a more minimalistic approach to legislating.

At this point, I would like to pay tribute to the Seafarers charity, as other noble Lords have done, and to other charities that work in this field. They do excellent work and I place on record our thanks for this.

The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, said that we should put our arms around those who are struggling. That is absolutely what we are trying to do—and we will continue to do so. I cannot answer her question about BP in Angola, but I will write to her.

It would be career-limiting for me to tell noble Lords that nothing is going to change on automatic enrolment. I do not see it happening at the moment, but the fact is that, in these difficult days, we must tread carefully on all these big issues. But we must not lose the good work that we have done on this wonderful system.

My noble friend Lady Altmann raised the issue of women and pension schemes. The Government have taken action to protect people’s jobs and to support and pay wages. We took the decision to help ease the burden of workplace pensions for employers with furloughed staff, and this will help many women impacted by the lockdown to carry on their savings.

My noble friend Lady Altmann also raised pension relief, along with the noble Baroness, Lady Janke. Pension tax relief is a matter for the Treasury—I am not trying to duck responsibility. The Government recognise the different impacts of the two systems in pay and pension tax relief. To date, it has not been possible to identify any straightforward or proportionate means to align more closely the effects of net-pay and relief-at-source mechanisms for this population. However, as announced in our manifesto, the Government will publish a call for evidence on pension tax relief administration to see how we can fix the issue.

Turning to the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, I think it is no bad thing to sometimes support the opposition if it means that our hearts are beating in concert to carry on with something important. He talked about finding ingenious ways to ensure that the entitlement continues: if noble Lords have ingenious ways, I hope that they will write and let me know what they are.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and my noble friend Lord Blencathra talked about the oil industry. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, gave an eloquent and clear overview of the challenges faced in getting the economy on the road as quickly as possible. The best thing that I can do is go back to my colleague the Minister for Employment, who is looking at this sector by sector, and perhaps fix up a meeting for the noble Lord and the Minister. I also challenge the noble Lord: if he has ideas, will he put them on paper and let us have them? We really do need this.

Reducing the trigger to include more women and low-paid workers was raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Sherlock and Lady Kennedy, and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes. The automatic enrolment earnings trigger determines the level of earnings at which someone must be automatically enrolled by their employer and is currently set at £10,000. This is reviewed annually, and an equality impact assessment always forms part of the review. We will continue to keep it under review as the country recovers from the impact of the coronavirus pandemic, but I will take the points made back to the department. I also want to put on record that I agree with the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes.

Regarding the triple lock, the Government are committed to ensuring that older people are able to live with the dignity and respect that they deserve, and the state pension is the foundation of that support.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, again made the point about carbon fuels and alternative jobs. Obviously, this will feature in the work that we do to recover the economy. It is a tribute to those who work in that industry. We must do all we can to get the country working again as quickly as possible.

As my noble friend Lord Wei said, the job is not done. We must not take our foot off the pedal. I will take back to the department his point about people overseas being put off employing British people and will write to him. I believe that the point about multiple pensions will be sorted by the work that we are doing on the dashboard in the pensions Bill.

The noble Lord, Lord Hain, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Janke and Lady Sherlock, talked about the self-employed. We know that the current automatic enrolment framework is not suitable. That is why last summer we commenced trials working with a range of partner organisations to help inform future policy interventions. My noble friend Lord Flight raised many questions; I will answer one now and write to him on the others. The auto-enrolment review set out our ambition to remove the earnings limit and lower the age threshold in the mid-2020s. I am glad that my noble friend Lord Blencathra is pleased that we have brought the sunset clauses back to the House, but on the point about the review in five to eight years, there has never been any discussion on that, but I will find out, as requested. The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, asked about a timetable for pensions work. I will find out about this and write to her. I am sure that I have not answered all the questions, but I have done my best and will write to noble Lords.

Automatic enrolment has been transformational in getting employees into the habit of pensions saving. It has reversed the previous decline, and with over 10 million workers being enrolled into a workplace pension, automatic enrolment has by all measures been a great success. The workplace pension participation rate for eligible employees between the ages of 22 and 29 has increased from 24% in 2012 to 84% in 2018. Automatic enrolment has helped eligible women working in the private sector and raised the level of their participation from 40% in 2012 to 85% in 2018. Our ambition for automatic enrolment remains the same in relation to the 2017 review, but there is a need to reflect carefully on the current economic circumstances. It has been a huge success that we want to build on. As we have seen today, it is also important that we have the consensus to do so, so I welcome the support of noble Lords today.

As announced by the Chancellor on 12 May, the furlough and job retention scheme has been extended until the end of October. It will continue in its current form until the end of July; changes to allow more flexibility will be introduced from the start of August. This scheme is just one part of the Government’s response to coronavirus, which includes an unprecedented package for the self-employed, with loans and guarantees that have so far provided billions of pounds in support, tax deferrals and grants for businesses. The Government will continue to monitor closely the impact of workplace pensions on businesses during the current period. Our objective is to continue supporting employers and balance the needs of businesses and savers, as well as taxpayers, at this difficult time.

These instruments remove the sunset clauses from the existing legislation so that automatic enrolment into workplace pensions continues to cover eligible employees in the maritime industry, ensuring that these workers continue to have access to pension saving in the same way as the rest of the UK economy. I commend these instruments to the House. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Occupational and Personal Pension Schemes (Automatic Enrolment) (Amendment) Regulations 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

That the Virtual Proceedings do consider the draft Occupational and Personal Pension Schemes (Automatic Enrolment) (Amendment) Regulations 2020.

Motion agreed.

Universal Credit

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Wednesday 13th May 2020 Lords Chamber

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, we monitor the impact of the benefit cap policy and publish these findings every three months. The latest available statistics were published last week, on 7 May, and reflect the position as at February this year. The next publication, scheduled for 6 August, will reflect the current position and the impact of the increases awarded from April of this year.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, welcome as the increase is, many thousands will not benefit because of the cap, which is already causing real hardship and unfairness, as demonstrated by the Work and Pensions Committee, yet it is not realistic or safe at present to expect people to seek work or reduce housing costs to avoid it. Will the Government now listen to anti-poverty and faith groups, the IFS and others, and urgently fulfil their statutory duty to review the cap and suspend it, or, if operationally easier, raise it significantly?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I must be very clear that it is not the Government’s intention to change the current level of the benefit cap. What I want to point out is that claimants may benefit from a nine-month grace period, where their universal credit will not be capped, if they have a sustained work record. Exemptions will also continue to apply for the most vulnerable claimants who are entitled to disability benefits and carer benefits. I finish my answer by saying that the Government have quickly and effectively introduced £7 billion-worth of measures that benefit those facing the most severe financial disruption.

[Baroness Couttie (Con)]

Many people who have recently found themselves made redundant as a result of the Covid-19 crisis will be struggling on universal credit. Some of these people will have decided to isolate with vulnerable loved ones to provide them with the care that they need to be protected from the disease. This can lead to added expense. Will the Government consider removing the benefit cap for such people?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Claimants who receive certain benefits for caring or for a severe disability or health condition will not have their benefits capped. This ensures that the most vulnerable people are protected. Universal credit households are exempt from the cap if the household earnings are at least £604 each month. Households may also be exempt for a period of nine months, if they have a sustained work history.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, advances for universal credit claimants have to be repaid when claimants finally receive their benefits—after at least five weeks, and often very much longer than that. But their benefits will be well below subsistence level, due in part to the benefits cap, but also to the two-child limit, and to very tough rent and council tax rules. Could any Minister maintain their mental health in these circumstances? I absolutely could not—and I mean that. Will the Minister plead with her colleagues for urgent further changes—I understand that some have been made—to protect the mental health of universal credit claimants?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The noble Baroness makes an excellent point: these are very difficult times. People are struggling in all sorts of ways, and we are mindful of the impact of mental health issues. I am afraid that I am unable to make any commitments around the points that the noble Baroness made, but I will say that, in these very difficult times, nobody has to wait five weeks. Since 16 March, we have issued 700,000 advances, and the majority have received their money within 72 hours.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, can I bring the Minister back to the point made by my noble friend Lady Lister? The Government’s argument for the benefit cap was that you can always escape it by just going and getting a job or moving to a cheaper house. But that is simply not possible at the moment. The Minister says that the Government are not going to lift the cap. Given the demand from the IFS and over 50 organisations, and given the Commons Library estimates that an extra 18,000 families are being drawn into the benefit cap as a result of the Government’s actions, can she tell the House not merely that they will not do it but why they will not do it?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I draw the noble Baroness’s attention to the fact that, in a repeated Oral Statement and at Oral Questions, the Secretary of State was absolutely clear that this benefit will not be changed. I agree with her that things are very difficult at the moment. That is why we have tried to be as flexible as we can by introducing this £7 billion package which gets to the people who are in the most difficult group, removing the minimum income floor, increasing UC, pausing deductions for historic debts, introducing statutory sick pay from day one and increasing working tax credits from over £1,000 to £3,000. I cannot give her any other answer than that, but I can make a commitment to take her question back to the department and again ask what she and others would like me to ask.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

Is the Minister aware that 85% of those who have had benefits capped are single parents, many of whom have lost jobs through the current crisis? To ease the severe hardship these families are suffering, will the Government at least consider suspending the benefits cap pending a future review?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The benefit cap is reviewed once in every Parliament. The Secretary of State will do this, although I cannot tell noble Lords when. Until that happens, I am not aware of any intention or plan by the Government to remove the cap.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

I thank the noble Baroness for again highlighting how the benefit cap is trapping families in poverty. In light of the report published last week by the Church of England and CPAG which estimates that around 60,000 more families will be affected by the two-child limit due to Covid-19, what assessment have Her Majesty’s Government made of the impact of this limit on families who have made a new universal credit claim since the lockdown?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I will need to go back to the department and ask whether an assessment has been made. I am mindful of the recent Child Poverty Action Group report and was grateful to receive an advance copy. My officials are carefully considering this, and I hope to be able to write to the Child Poverty Action Group and the Church of England this week to cover the point that the right reverend Prelate just made.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I point out that, as far as I am aware, Labour is not committed to ending the benefit cap; let us start by saying that. It seems that we can never do enough, but would the Minister agree to look very carefully at the situation as it unfolds and confirm that, where we can make minor adjustments, we will? But we have to realise that there is a limit to the amount of money we can spend.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

My noble friend makes a very valid point. These days are very difficult and the situation is fast-changing. We are reviewing and considering things on a daily basis. There is nothing at all in our plan that aims to make life worse for people; in fact, it is quite the opposite. When noble Lords look at what we have done, we have moved quickly and effectively to try to bring additional resource and support into the system.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, one of the drivers of food bank usage identified by Feeding Britain—I declare an interest—is the monthly sums deducted from universal credit to repay advance payments. The Chancellor’s plans to lower the rate of deductions and extend the repayment period are not due to take effect for another 18 months. Would the department not consider bringing them forward immediately for existing claimants and replacing advance payments with targeted grants for all new claimants from now on?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I advise all noble Lords that there is no plan to convert advances to grants. I must be clear about that, although I know that it is not what people want to hear. However, I will take the point back to the department and see whether there is any movement, and I will give a written response to the noble Baroness.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

Given that, because of Covid, we are in all likelihood entering a period of much higher unemployment when it will be more difficult for people to get a job, does the Minister agree that there is a case for a review of universal credit and suspending the benefit cap until such a review has taken place?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I think that I have answered the questions about the benefit cap and reviewing benefits quite adequately during the course of the Question. I agree that these are very challenging times. We have launched a job help website and an employer help website. We will turn every stone to ensure that we help people back to work as quickly as possible.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has, regrettably, elapsed.

Covid-19: People Living in Poverty

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Thursday 30th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, for securing this very important debate, and for giving us all an opportunity to put forward ideas and recommendations for things that need to be done. It is an important discussion and I am sure that it will continue. I am quite sure that I will not be able to answer everybody’s questions in such a short period, but I give an absolute guarantee that I will write to clarify our position on every question that noble Lords have asked.

This has been an extraordinarily difficult time. The Government are committed to a huge and unprecedented programme of support to mitigate the strain that Covid-19 is putting on households, livelihoods, business and our nation’s economy. The measures we have put in place will help to ensure that everyone, including those most at risk, can get the support they need to pay their bills and put food on the table.

Let me leave all noble Lords in absolutely no doubt that the Government are committed to helping, to doing what they can and to making sure that people do not fall through the net. We have taken swift action to strengthen the welfare safety net with a package of additional support worth £7 billion—one of the largest support packages in the world. The standard allowance of universal credit and working tax credit has been increased by £20 a week for the next 12 months, benefiting 4 million households. I am pleased to say that those who applied for universal credit on 16 March received their first payments last week, and around 93% of all applicants for universal credit are expected to receive their payments on time and in full. As my noble friend Lord Balfe said, that is thanks in large part to the tens of thousands of DWP staff who have been working around the clock to make sure that this happens. It is a great achievement in a very difficult time. The noble Baronesses, Lady Ritchie and Lady Sherlock, and my noble friend Lady Stroud said that whatever we do has to be fair, equal and compassionate. I can tell your Lordships that the Government have compassion by the bucketload. I would not say that if I did not believe it.

To support claimants through this difficult period, we have also suspended the recovery of various government debts, such as tax credit overpayments, benefit overpayments and social fund loans, for a three-month period. The Government continue to support and protect pensioners. The Government have made it clear that nobody should have to be worried about the threat of eviction during these times. We have increased the local housing allowance rates, meaning on average an extra £600 will go into the pockets of those who need it most. We are protecting tenants with almost £1 billion of additional support for renters and have banned rent evictions during the crisis. We have introduced mortgage holidays to protect homeowners and landlords.

We have introduced regulations already that disapply the minimum income floor to all self-employed universal credit claimants affected by the impact of Covid-19, whether they are ill or self-isolating, meaning that a drop in earnings will be reflected in their benefit award. New claim advances are of course available urgently to support those in immediate financial need until their first universal credit payment is made. I have to be straight with noble Lords: I know of no plans to convert an advance into a grant.

Although the benefit cap remains in place, for some of those who are new to benefits but have been employed for the previous 12 months, that cap will not apply for a nine-month period. This exemption will also apply to existing universal credit claimants who have sufficient earnings in the previous year to be exempt from the cap. Exemptions will continue to apply for the most vulnerable claimants, who are entitled to disability and carer benefits. Households are still able to receive benefits up to the equivalent salary of £24,000, or £28,000 in London.

We come now to the question of universal basic income. This Government have focused their measures on things which can be implemented as quickly as possible and target support to those who need it; a universal basic income would not achieve this. Providing a flat payment to everyone would fail to target those who need more support and may not meet the additional needs of those such as disabled people, lone parents and people further from the labour market. I understand that Finland trialled universal basic income and scrapped it early, because it was not working. As other noble Lords have pointed out, it is also far too expensive.

Defra has been undertaking a lot of work to support food banks, while other charitable organisations have worked within the sector and with the supermarkets to get as much food as possible to people who need it. The measures taken also include £3.25 million for food redistribution across England, including through food banks, allowing redistribution of up to 14,000 tonnes of surplus stock to the vulnerable. We have liaised with the food bank fraternity and will continue to do so.

The Government have announced a £500 million hardship fund, as part of the measures to support those affected by Covid-19, so that local authorities in England can support vulnerable people and households. This funding will enable local authorities to increase the local housing allowance for universal credit and housing benefit claims.

On the work that we have been able to do for rough sleepers—Dame Louise Casey has done outstanding work—I say to my noble friend Lord Young that, as well as bringing people off the streets and out of shared communal spaces, we are focused on ensuring that those with a history of rough sleeping who have been accommodated during the crisis have appropriate options for accommodation going forward. It is only responsible that we work with partners to consider how best to support those rough sleepers who have been moved into accommodation once the immediate crisis has been resolved.

Regarding economic support and recovery, today our focus is rightly on helping the vulnerable. However, our ambition remains to build an economy which ensures that everyone, no matter their background, has the opportunities to enter work and progress, while being supported by the welfare system. My ministerial colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions are already working to ensure that existing vacancies can be accessed easily by people who have lost their jobs, and that we do everything we can to keep those people in good shape while they are waiting for that commercial opportunity for them to work.

Let me try to answer some of the questions raised today. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, raised sanctions. UC and both legacy and new-style JSA work preparation for face-to-face interviews and related sanctions have been disapplied from 19 March. This will initially be for a three-month period and claimants will not be sanctioned for not attending interviews after this time.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, made a good point about mothballing schemes so that they are ready to come out if we ever need them again. I will be sure to pass this on to my policy colleagues. The noble Baroness, Lady Drake, talked about reappraising values. I think everybody agrees that once we have passed the damage caused by this virus, things will not be the same again. I hope that we will hold on to and build on some of the values we have seen coming out in communities and in my Government.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, asked for a framework on decision-making. I have no answer for her on that at the moment, but I will write to her. The noble Lord, Lord Oates, talked about grants and writing off advances. I am sorry to tell him that I do not have any information on this or know of any plans to do so. The noble Lord, Lord Best, raised the issue of debt—a major problem before this crisis, let alone now, and one to which the Government are giving serious attention.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and I have had many conversations about the support for a maximum of two children. The Government and I understand where he is coming from and I have no doubt that the campaign for this will continue. We recognise that some claimants cannot make the same choice about the number of children in their family. That is why exceptions are in place. However, I must reiterate that families on benefits should have to make the same financial decisions as families supporting themselves financially. We feel that this is really important.

The benefit cap was raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Lister and Lady Bowles, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham. It is to be reviewed once in each Parliament; I know that it was not done in the last Parliament and we are waiting for the Secretary of State to decide if and when to do it in this Parliament. However, existing and new claimants may benefit from a nine-month grace period when their universal credit will not be capped, if they have a sustained work record. Claimants can approach their local authority for discretionary housing payments if they need additional help.

The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, raised the housing benefit cap. I will go away, find the answer to her question and write to her. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, talked about the ferry industry. Again, I will go to the relevant department and make sure that she gets a letter on that. I am sure that audit trails are in the Government’s plans and will be carried out. I think my time is nearly up. I am a bit lost without the Clock in the Chamber. Am I nearly up?

[The Deputy Speaker]

I am sure the Minister can have a minute or two more.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Okay. I will just build on what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, and the noble Lord, Lord Balfe. All of this will have to be paid for. There is no doubt about that. Our colleagues in the Treasury and BEIS will be looking around the world to see who has the best ideas. I will make sure that I write to the Chancellor with that suggestion and that the German example given by the noble Baroness is considered.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Woolley, I do not know of any plans for a race equality strategy, but I will put the idea forward. I do not know about the idea of the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, of a new leverage, but this Government are open to all ideas that will improve the lives of the people we are in business to serve. If noble Lords have ideas, please let us have them.

Universal credit gets a lot of criticism—it also gets a lot of praise, which I am very pleased about. However, in this terrible time, let us take a moment to think: if the old system were in place, people would be applying for six benefits instead of one and they would be paper-based instead of automated. We are getting people paid on time and in full; at the moment it is at 93%. That is a great credit to the people working on it. As I have said, I will write to all noble Lords after this debate with the answers they are owed.

Automatic Enrolment (Earnings Trigger and Qualifying Earnings Band) Order 2020

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2020 Grand Committee

Moved by

[The Earl of Courtown]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Automatic Enrolment (Earnings Trigger and Qualifying Earnings Band) Order 2020.

Household Income

Baroness Stedman-Scott Excerpts

Tuesday 10th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the Office for National Statistics’ release Average household income, UK: financial year ending 2019, published on 5 March, and in particular the finding that disposable household income has fallen for the poorest 20 per cent of the population.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are giving serious consideration to this important report, as they do to all reports on these key issues. We acknowledge that we need to keep monitoring low incomes; indeed, that is why the DWP will publish the annual households below average income statistics on 26 March. The report referred to by the noble Baroness has a relatively small cohort; the DWP report will have a much larger one and it will be interesting to compare the two. Please understand that we realise that people are struggling, and it is our mission to help them.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, despite increases in the minimum wage and personal tax allowance, which have a limited impact on poverty—in or out of work—the Office for National Statistics report shows that, over two years, there has been a 7% fall in the real incomes of the poorest fifth of people due to the benefits freeze, spelling an intensification of poverty and hardship, especially for women and children. The House appreciates the Minister’s sympathy but how can the Government she represents, who are supposedly committed to levelling up, justify their continued refusal to make good at least some of the loss due to that freeze in the face of this damning new evidence of the results of their policy choices?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

My Lords, we had an intensive debate on this issue last week, which I appreciated, when considering the uprating benefits order. I have given and will continue to give all noble Lords the opportunity to raise their concerns with the Government. I appreciate the warms words the noble Baroness uses to refer to me. I am doing everything I can, as are others, but I am afraid that I do not yet have the currency or the pay grade to answer the question in the way the noble Baroness wants.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that one of the heaviest downward pressures on disposable income for the poorest families is the ever-rising cost for households of energy bills? Does she agree that, at a time when primary energy prices are falling around the world and energy is getting cheaper, here in the United Kingdom we seem nevertheless to have the highest energy costs in Europe and the bills keep going up and up, causing particular pressure for single-parent families? Can she assure us that all efforts will be made to mitigate this harsh pressure on such families?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

My noble friend makes a very important point. I understand all too well that energy costs are an issue for single parents: my niece is a single parent, and the amount she pays for electric on a key is out of kilter with other methods. My noble friend’s point about energy costs is well made. I will go back to the department—they are going to love me when I get back—and then write to him to answer the specifics of his question, placing a copy in the Library.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the number of universal credit claimants who commit suicide every year, and of course these are the poorest people in our society. What steps will the Government take to improve the administration of universal credit and reduce the huge stress levels involved in trying to make a claim in the way required at the moment?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Suicide is a terrible thing in any circumstances. We have all been reminded recently of its impact on various groups in our society. I can tell the noble Baroness and the whole House that the administration of universal credit is reviewed on a daily basis. We have a terrific director, Neil Couling, who looks after the system, and I know for a fact that he is trying to do everything he can to simplify the process without losing the administrative needs within it.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that automatic sanctions cause huge stress not only to unemployed people but to working families who are on benefits? What assurances can she give that work coaches will be given sufficient flexibility to take into account the often appalling and tragic circumstances that lead to this action, and will she reassure those families that they will be listened to?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I can assure the noble Baroness and the House that our work coaches receive regular training and development in respect of sanctions, and that sanctions are a last resort. Recent changes have been made to the length of sanctions and they will be used only when absolutely necessary.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, some of the people who are suffering the most are pensioners relying on the basic pension. If the coronavirus outbreak gets worse and more and more people are confined to their homes, they will have to rely on the television for information as well as for entertainment, and yet free TV licences are due to be withdrawn on 1 June. Will the Minister go back to her department with all seriousness and compassion and see whether, at the very least, the withdrawal of free TV licences can be postponed?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I can assure the noble Lord that everything I do at this Dispatch Box is done with sincerity and compassion. The point he has raised about television licences is outside my brief, but I will find somebody to talk to about it.