Railways: High Speed 2

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport in another place. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, the past few days have brought important proposals to make the most of High Speed 2. They will help us to build the line better, bring benefits to the north sooner and support job creation and economic growth. I want to update the House at the first opportunity, and I am sorry that, for unavoidable reasons, I was not able to do that last week.

The proposals are welcome, because HS2 is a vital project. It can do for future generations what Victorian railways did for previous generations and the motorways for ours. That is why it has the strong support of the Government, and it is why cities in the Midlands and the north are calling for its benefits to be spread as widely as possible.

We must heed that call, but for this to happen we also need to get the basics right: stick to cost, plan well, listen, respect the environment, build what really works and what we really need for the future and, of course, make sure that people get the benefits as quickly as possible.

I know, too, that HS2 is just part—but a vital part—of our long-term economic plan, one that will see better infrastructure for all parts of the country. It is a clear and ambitious plan, a plan that is already paying dividends—shown by last week’s welcome decision by Hitachi, the company that invented the bullet train, to move its global rail headquarters to Britain. That is the sort of opportunity presented by HS2.

First, let me respond to the report by Sir David Higgins. He began work as chairman of HS2 in January. The first task that I set was to look at how to maximise the benefits of HS2 and manage the costs. Last year, Parliament backed the principle of a high-speed rail link to the north with 350 votes in favour and only 34 against. Now it is up to us to make it happen. Given his great track record, there is no one better suited to the job than Sir David.

I turn to his proposals. First, on costs, Sir David has reviewed the cost estimates for constructing phase 1 and confirmed that they are realistic. The budget set by the Government in 2013 stands. As experience shows, in Britain we can build great projects on time and on budget, such as High Speed 1 and Crossrail. However, at this early stage, before Parliament has considered the hybrid Bill, we must include a proper contingency. Of course, for popularity’s sake, one option would be to slash the contingency and claim it as a saving. Sir David says that would be the wrong thing to do. I agree, but, as he also says, with growing certainty comes growing confidence. There will be the stage when we can bring the contingency down.

Let me turn to his second proposal. I have heard many honourable Members ask why we cannot build in the north sooner. I agree: we can. His report suggests opening the line to a new hub station in Crewe six years earlier than planned. Direct trains will of course be able to run off HS2 lines to serve places such as Stoke, Liverpool, Manchester, north Wales—and Scotland—faster too. A line to Crewe sooner would mean shorter journeys than with just the current phase 1: quicker to Manchester, quicker to Liverpool, quicker to Scotland.

This is a welcome proposal and I am commissioning HS2 Ltd to undertake work to allow it to be considered in detail. However, this must be seen as an acceleration of phase 2, not an alternative. Sir David said that we must make the most of this investment so that as many towns and cities as possible benefit. I agree, and we will make sure that happens.

With the third proposal—for the southern end of the line—our priority must be to get the benefits to the Midlands and the north as soon as possible. In short, we must put our money and time where it can do most good. Sir David is clear that he does not think existing proposals for the HS2-HS1 link meet that test. The HS2-HS1 link proposed in the hybrid Bill has not secured a consensus. The link requires too many compromises in terms of impacts on freight, passengers and the community in Camden. I therefore intend to remove the link from the hybrid Bill and withdraw safeguarding as soon as possible. I will also commission a study into options for improving connections to the continent which could be built once the initial stages of HS2 are complete.

I also agree with the report that much more can be made of Euston station—not just to build something we can be proud of but to maximise the economic potential of the line and use a site which has been neglected, and to generate private sector investment which can reduce the overall burden on taxpayers. I will, therefore, ask HS2 Ltd and Network Rail to develop comprehensive proposals for the redevelopment of Euston. Our ambitions for Euston must not, however, conflict with our commitment to control costs. I want to see substantive private sector investment to ensure this.

Secondly, I turn to the report from the growth task force published last week. It is from an impressive panel, including business leaders such as Sir John Rose, Alison Nimmo and Ray O’Rourke, city leaders such as Julie Dore from Sheffield, and the general secretary of the TUC, Frances O’Grady. I thank everyone involved and in particular the Commercial Secretary for his committed leadership. Their message is clear: we need HS2 and we need to act now to squeeze the most from it in terms of jobs, skills and growth.

The task force’s recommendations are plain common sense: things that business, government and cities can do together, and must start doing now. In relation to skills, this means proper training to ensure that our young people get the best jobs on the project. In relation to planning, it is ensuring that the line brings new strength to our cities. On transport it is ensuring that we link the existing road and rail network properly to HS2, and plan investment in them together. Regeneration and economic growth are vital parts of HS2.

City leaders have already started to put plans in place, but government has a role to play as well. That is why I am asking HS2 Ltd, and London and Continental Railways—which developed the King’s Cross St Pancras site—to come forward with proposals for a regeneration company that will respond to the growth task force’s recommendations on regeneration. This matters because, as I have said before, HS2 is a project that will be built over many Parliaments—and no doubt Governments too—and it will serve people through many generations. It is not the only answer to our transport needs but it is a central part of the answer. That means designing it carefully and building it right: building something that works, that we can be proud of, and that benefits as many people and places as possible for the lowest cost. We are on schedule to open the line in 2026—which, by the way, is exactly the date the previous Government set in 2010—or ahead of that date in the case of the Crewe proposal.

The Government are keen to rise to the challenge. I hope that honourable Members on all sides of the House will do the same”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, there is clearly a great deal of consensus across the Benches in this House. I very much welcome that because, as the Secretary of State said in his Statement, this project will span many Parliaments and inevitably a number of Governments. Therefore, that consensus is absolutely vital.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and I welcome the comments that he made. I did not identify many questions within his comments. I found one to which I think he wanted a response, which concerned when we would respond to the consultation on HS2. We expect that to be in the autumn. There have been a very substantial number of responses. We need to go through those in a great deal of detail and we need to pay a great deal of attention to them. That is a complex process.

I assure the noble Lord that we have long recognised the importance of the Midlands and the north. In this process I have been spending a great deal of time myself in the north. I welcomed the growth task force report in Manchester with the leaders of Manchester council, the former leader of Trafford, and a number of other representatives of local communities. I underscore that importance and look forward to further questions from other Members of this House.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate Sir David Higgins and the noble Lord, Lord Deighton, on their two reports. I am very pleased that the Government have accepted them. They are a breath of fresh air. I look forward to continuing to work on the project.

I am particularly pleased that the HS1 link has been removed as it was not fit for purpose, but can the Minister encourage her ministerial colleagues not to be too negative about that? She may know that there is already a link with HS1—it was built with HS1—on to the North London Line and the west coast main line which could be used to run Eurostars north of London. It needs signalling—they have forgotten to do that—but that is a minor detail. The trains are operating in France but they could operate in Birmingham and Manchester very quickly and provide that link if there was a demand. I hope that she will take that back to stop any negativity coming from the northern part of the route and the claims that cancelling the HS1 link is a disaster. It is not.

[Baroness Kramer]

I fully agree with the noble Lord’s comments about the HS1/HS2 link, and those were indeed the comments of Sir David Higgins. It is something that could technically have been done but, given the impact that it would have had not just on the community but on passengers and freight traffic, trains would have travelled at 20 miles per hour on that particular link and no more of them than three an hour, at that, so it was not fit for purpose.

However, I give assurances, as the Secretary of State has said, that there will be an important study to look at how to connect the north through to the continent as HS2 progresses. We recognise the importance of that; it is a significant and serious piece of work. Sir David Higgins has recently welcomed proposals from others who understand transport and community issues, and the department had done so previously. We will continue to appreciate the input that comes in, and that expertise.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, the spirit of the Statement is in for a penny, in for pound—a lot of pounds, of course—but if it is to be done, it should be done well and quicker. I particularly welcome the extension to Crewe, which is in my diocese, so much sooner; I am sure that the people of Crewe, that noble old railway city, will welcome that warmly.

I notice in the Statement, though, that direct trains will be able to run off HS2 to serve north Wales. I have always assumed that the trains on the high-speed rail link will be electric. Does this mean that the Government are announcing plans to electrify the railways beyond Crewe to Chester and into north Wales? If so, when is that going to happen?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, the line will be able to take classic-compatibles immediately, which will provide a great deal of the flexibility that is needed. Obviously there is a wide programme of electrification already under way. I can take a look again at the route that he has just suggested and come back to him with comments on it but, essentially, the way in which the line is being designed does not just mean that HS2 trains themselves will be able to run up and down it but ensures that it can be used by classic-compatibles that can go on to a wide range of other destinations.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

My Lords, I wonder whether I can start with a question: can anything be done to expedite the tortuous Bill procedure in both Houses? This is a matter for the Government and the House authorities, but we really should not wait for years and years while the Bill waits at the convenience of the House—or, rather, the convenience of the nation.

We have already been told that the fares policy will encourage use rather than deter it. I agree that the HS1/HS2 link as tabled is not very satisfactory, but we need a modern transport link between Kings Cross, St Pancras and Euston. I regretted to see in the report the issue of one stop on the Underground. That would mean carting your cases, luggage and everything down to where it is very congested. The time has come to bite the bullet and make a proper link. If these stations were an airport, they would be one terminal; the distance is very short.

I am most interested in what has been said about the north. I think that the north has been done badly to by successive Governments. The most recent bad thing that was done was when the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, cancelled an order for 200 new diesel trains that would have improved the services there. The north must have decent rolling stock, not the cast-offs from other railways and certainly not antiquated stock. Every city in the north needs its local enterprise partnership to get down now to planning how they will link supporting services into the stations that are served.

Lastly, I challenge the Government on the consistent reports I have seen for years that there is no business case for investing in the north. I think that the reason is that, with the present trains and present service, it is difficult to see why people should use the railway. However, we are looking at a new era, and I am sure that there will be a business case for investing properly in the north.

[Baroness Kramer]

We absolutely agree that we are looking at a new era. It is frankly inspiring to meet the city leaders, businesses and other stakeholders of the great cities of the north and the Midlands, who are coming together to create a sort of common strategy for maximising the benefits of HS2 by building interconnectivity between them. That is absolutely crucial. My noble friend may be hinting at a rolling stock issue in the north. That is an immediate problem that the department has said that it will find a way to resolve no matter what, but it has not yet found an absolute answer.

Parliamentary procedure is a matter for the two Houses. I am sure, though, that with the good will of Members of both Houses, we can encourage the process to move according to the speediest possible timetable. It is important that people who are petitioning are properly heard and listened to; I would not want to cut short the opportunity for that proper interface.

On fares policy, we have said that this will not be a premium service. There will be many ways to link Euston and St Pancras. They have to be looked at. Travelators have been mentioned; there is one stop on the Northern line.

[Lord Jenkin of Roding (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Snape]

My Lords, I am grateful that the normal procedures of the House are being abided by. I strike a discordant note, as a supporter of this project, to say how disappointed I am—as I am sure many people in the Midlands and north will be—at the abandonment of the link between HS1 and HS2. Thirty years ago, during the passage of the Channel Tunnel Act, we were told that there would be through trains from Paris, Brussels and other continental cities to our great cities of the Midlands and the north. This was, at least, a chance for those through trains to run between those cities. How does the Minister suggest that a businessperson coming from the continent to the Midlands or the north gets between Euston and St Pancras? Do they take the Victoria or the Northern line? Or will they pull their luggage along Euston Road? Will the Minister accept from me that there will be a great deal of disquiet in many parts of the country about the abandonment of this link?

[Baroness Kramer]

Many of the cities in the north and the Midlands accept that the link as it was designed did not fit the purpose that they saw for it. It simply was not adequate in the role that it played. We will be looking at many more trains going to many more destinations out of Kings Cross and St Pancras. There has to be a much better way to create a link between HS1 and HS2. That will be a major study. It is a piece of work and it needs to be of the standard that a high-speed intercontinental link deserves.

In the short term, we will need a way to get between Euston and St Pancras. As I say, that will be looked at. The distance, as other people have said, is very limited; I walked between the two in four minutes yesterday. However, it will be important to make sure that that is an efficient and effective link and not a matter of trundling down the street.

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

My Lords, on this question of the HS1/HS2 link, there could be an additional dimension. I have had discussions with Sir Howard Davies who, with his commission, is currently looking at whether a Thames estuary airport could be a realistic addition to the shortlist of options that will be given to the Government after the next election. If, indeed, it becomes a realistic option—which is not impossible at all—then the question of a link from the north will become absolutely vital. People must have a way of travelling down on the HS2 and going on the HS1, with a link to the airport at the Isle of Grain if that is the one which is approved. That would be almost more important than a direct rail link to the continent.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, none of us is attempting to second-guess what the conclusions of the Davies report will be, or the conclusions of the Government of the day that will make the final decision. At that time it will be appropriate to take a look and work out how links can be created if they will be relevant to whatever the major airport will be for the south-east, and to the high-speed line. However, to attempt to do so at this point would delay HS2, which we want to get into the ground by 2017 to deliver the benefits which we all discussed earlier. That is absolutely crucial.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I was very glad that the Statement mentioned Scotland on a couple of occasions. However, in her replies to all the previous questions, the noble Baroness mentioned just the Midlands and the north—she is reverting back to that again. Will she confirm that the best part of the whole economic case is regarding journeys between London and Scotland, and that that also frees the existing lines to have more stops at intermediate stations in England? Will she therefore initiate discussions with the Scottish Government as quickly as possible to ensure that work is under way to determine the route to Scotland, to start to think about the funding and to start working on dates for construction? Unless she and the Government do that, we will not think that they are being serious about Scotland.

[Baroness Kramer]

I am delighted to say that the department is somewhat ahead of the game. I have already commissioned a report and consultants have been retained; we expect a preliminary response on how to take the benefits of high-speed rail to Scotland. We will get our interim response in July, and that will be a very important document in being able to identify the future. Of course, HS2—even the “Y” that is currently planned—will help to bring journey times to Glasgow and Edinburgh down to less than three hours.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome this report; I am in favour of HS2. However, I am rather more in favour of the “plus”. In this report, one word which bellows out is “connectivity”. In the foreword it says that there is,

“poor connectivity in the North”.

It wants us to be,

“more ambitious … about producing a coherent transport plan for the North”.

On page 9, the report states:

“In contrast, connectivity in the North is poor”.

I agree.

I do not want to detract from what has been said about getting to Crewe earlier, and the connectivity in the north-west. However, I want to speak about the other leg, from Birmingham up into Yorkshire, and the possibilities beyond that. The original proposals in January 2013 propose a terminal station in Leeds—what I describe as a “hammerhead terminus”—where the only connectivity is a long walk. That might suit Leeds but it is useless for connectivity for anywhere else, such as Huddersfield, Halifax, Bradford, Keighley, Skipton, Ilkley, going back round to Wakefield, or further connectivity to York, the north-east and Scotland.

Does the Minister agree that connectivity will be achieved if, in Leeds, we get a new station parallel to the Leeds City station of today, not a station that is a hammerhead terminus, which would mean that people would have to leg it such a long way, and the detraction that that would bring?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

Yes; I can reassure my noble friend that we are looking very closely at all the proposals that have come in through the consultation, and more generally we are going back to look at all the detailed elements of the second phase of HS2. The issues he raised have been raised with the department and will be looked at, as will other proposals. As I said, we will come back with our conclusions in the autumn.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest in HS2. Unfortunately, it is likely to be a post-mortem interest because by the time it reaches Newcastle I will have long since been dead and buried. The urgent need is for investment now, or as soon as possible, in the north-east in the intra-regional rail infrastructure and indeed, that which will extend across the Pennines to the north-west. It is a very poor route and service at the moment. Can the Minister give any assurance that investment will take place sooner rather than later in those regards, irrespective of what happens in the timing of the HS2 project as such? After all, the north-east has a mere fraction of the per capita expenditure on transport infrastructure, particularly of the south-east, but also in relation to many other regions in the country.

[Baroness Kramer]

The noble Lord will be aware that spending on transport in the next Parliament is to be £73 billion, of which only £17 billion will be on HS2. There will be a very substantial spend on other transport services, including upgrading and improvement of rail, electrification, and so on. I could go on with a very long list. I can assure the noble Lord that that is not being ignored. There are also great opportunities with the local growth fund, which is a £2 billion-a-year fund for stakeholders to bring forward plans that they see linking into and maximising the benefits to HS2, so that they can go ahead in preparation for the arrival of HS2. I expect many of the cities and communities in the Midlands and the north to be doing exactly that.

[Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville (Con)]

Does my noble friend share my enhanced confidence in recent developments from the fact that the growth task force is chaired by our noble friend the Commercial Secretary, following his remarkable achievements on the infrastructure of the London Olympics, in particular?

[Baroness Kramer]

The noble Lord, Lord Deighton, has brought so much to this issue, not just his experience. The House will be aware that some years ago transport was looked at primarily in silos. It was about how to get people or freight from one place to another. It is now seen as inherently part of an economic development strategy. Local connectivity and integration with the rest of the network now have an importance that perhaps they once did not have. The noble Lord, Lord Deighton, has been very instrumental, with others, in making sure that we have those thoughts right at the forefront of the HS2 scheme.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, I greatly appreciate the Statement today, but when we talk about the great cities of the north, are we including cities such as Preston or Carlisle, which almost certainly will end up with an inferior rail service to the capital in London unless we get the connectivity right, as the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, has wisely drawn our attention to? There is no sign of that at the moment. For example, in a Parliamentary Question in the past few months, I was told that there was not even a business case made for high-speed trains from Wigan, which was to be the terminal to Glasgow. I find that incredible. I am also told that the high-speed trains will not run on the high-speed line, so the tilting trains will be providing an inferior service down the conventional west coast line.

[Baroness Kramer]

I am not sure that I fully understood the noble Lord’s last point. There will be the fast, specially designed HS2 trains, but the line can also take the classic-compatibles—diesel or otherwise—that can go off to a whole variety of other connections on the west coast main line and other routes. This frees up the west coast main line, the east coast main line and the Midland main line to take a whole complexity of other services. That issue has been raised by others on the Floor today. The expectation of an enhanced service from a much greater number of cities than those absolutely directly connected to HS2 is entirely viable. We just have to make sure that it is deeply embedded in our planning.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the Statement, representing as it does an increased and restated commitment to this project from the Government, added to by my noble friend Lord Davies, who spoke for the Opposition. It is extremely important that it is restated in that way, and it is encouraging to see what questions have been asked as well. However, I share some of the concerns raised by my noble friend Lord Snape. I certainly do not wish to delay anything—the quicker the better, in terms of preparing the scheme and getting it going. However, with regard to the statement:

“I will also commission a study into options for ways to improve connections to the continent which could be built once the initial stages of HS2 are complete”,

I would like it to be spelt out in a little more detail what this commission is going to do and within what timescale, and I would like just a clue as to what the other conceivable options would be if there were not to be a direct link between HS1 and HS2, because that must be a concern for those of us in the Midlands and the north.

[Baroness Kramer]

The decision to not develop the proposed HS1-HS2 link is very recent. A lot of work and thought needs to go into framing the study. As soon as we are able to do that, I will be glad to share it with the House.

Aviation: Fume Events

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare my interest as patron of the GCAQE.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, operators are required to include detailed instructions to crew on procedures to be followed when contamination of cabin air is present or suspected. Any passenger who became unwell would be given first aid by the crew and, if necessary, referred for further medical assessment and care after landing. There is no national or international legislation requiring air crew or passengers to be informed of fume events.

[The Countess of Mar]

My Lords, it is almost 60 years since the danger of fumes seeping into cabin air was first reported. With the notable exception of the Boeing 787, virtually all passenger jets still have flawed and potentially dangerous bleed air systems, a design that leaks pyrolised oil into the air supply. Does the Minister agree that most shocking of all is the fact that airlines fail to inform passengers that they have been exposed, which—and I have chosen my words very carefully—must be a breach of passengers’ rights and casts a dark reflection on the aviation industry? What solutions does the Minister have?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, on most commercial aircraft the cabin air supply is provided by engine bleed air, which is drawn from the compressor stage of the engine. Contamination, known as a fume event, may occur when oil or hydraulic fluid is released into the bleed air—for example, as a result of an oil seal failure—resulting in the formation of a fleeting odour or mist in the aircraft cabin. Most fume events last less than a minute or two.

Many investigations have been carried out by the department, of which the noble Countess will be well aware. The committee on toxicity concluded that there was no evidence for pollutants occurring in cabin at levels exceeding available health and safety standards and guidelines and, as most levels observed were comparable to those typically experienced in domestic settings, there is appropriately no requirement for passengers to be informed. There are many steps to be taken if there is an assessment that there is any endangerment to any passengers or to the flight.

[Lord Tyler (LD)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the work undertaken by the all-party parliamentary organophosphate group, of which the noble Countess and I were both members? Can she in particular tell us whether there is continuous monitoring of incidents and potential risks, following the Cranfield study some years ago? It is my impression that there is no continuing monitoring—I do not think that there has been any recent report on this—of incidence in a global sense, even if there is one for UK operators.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, as your Lordships will be aware, for six years the department carried out significant research into these issues, and quite appropriately so. That research led to four studies, the main one of which was the Cranfield study published in May 2011. All four reports were sent to the committee on toxicity, which also peer-reviewed other international data and came to the conclusion that I just discussed: that cabin air at levels exceeding available health and safety standards and guidelines was not evident in any of those studies. Going forward, I think it therefore becomes an international issue and it is a matter for the European Aviation Safety Agency or the International Civil Aviation Organisation to consider whether more research should be done. At this point, I am not aware of any concerns that they have for ongoing monitoring or further research.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

But does the Minister not accept that there is genuine concern about the lack of information about concentrations of pollutants during major fume events? These have not been adequately collated or analysed and, given the Government’s responsibility in these matters, can she instigate some research that could try to get to the bottom of this?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, the studies which were carried out over a period of nearly six years—the investigations by the department, including the four independent research studies that I described a few moments ago—and the work of the committee on toxicity have led the department to conclude that there is no further direction to pursue in terms of research on this issue for UK aviation. If there is to be further research, it will be at international levels. As I say, there is no indication of a sufficient concern or basis for research being recognised by those international organisations.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

Could my noble friend complete her answer to my noble friend Lord Tyler by telling us whether there is a requirement on airlines to report incidences when there has been a fume event exceeding the parameters which she has already described?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

Incidents on aircraft flights, including any fume event which in the opinion of the airline, any member thereof or any passenger,

“endangers or which, if not corrected, would endanger an aircraft, its occupants or any other person”,

are required to be reported under the mandatory occurrence reporting scheme, known as MORS, which is run by the UK’s independent aviation regulator, the CAA. An investigation carried out by the operator would then typically follow. If the CAA was not satisfied with that investigation, it could ask for further work to be undertaken. It is a CAA responsibility to monitor for trends and unrecognised safety threats.

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

My Lords, I have some sympathy with the Minister as I have on occasions from that Dispatch Box also produced responses that did not satisfy the noble Countess, Lady Mar, nor many other Members of the House. I therefore ask the Minister this question. If she is able to give the degree of reassurance that she has given about the monitoring that we carry out, but if the issue is a great deal wider than that—she made no reference at all to how other countries attack this or to the European position in general—will the Government at least push the authorities into examining this matter further? The consequences of getting it wrong would be quite disastrous.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be very well aware that the CAA, which is responsible for monitoring and safety, keeps not just this issue but many others under review. I feel confident that if the CAA had sufficient concern that it felt that there needed to be urgent research, it would inform the department of that and would be pushing on those issues. As I said, there has been very substantial research in this country and in other countries which has led to firm conclusions. Given that, it is hard to see what direction additional research could possibly go in.

London Underground: Industrial Action

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Carrington of Fulham]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact on the economy of the industrial action on the London Underground in February.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have not made such an assessment. Responsibility for London Underground, including industrial disputes, is a matter for the Mayor of London and Transport for London. The industrial action last month was regrettable and will undoubtedly have had a significant economic impact, but there is no straightforward or standard way of quantifying this.

[Lord Carrington of Fulham (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that response. Does she agree that the major damage caused by the strike was not monetary, but in terms of the aggravation, frustration and inconvenience caused to the poor benighted citizens of London? This raises the question of whether it is not time to reconsider whether strikes in public sector monopolies should be made illegal, or at the very least whether trade unions should be required to get a vote of two-thirds of the workforce in favour of action before calling a strike.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I join in celebrating the heroism of Londoners in coping with such situations, which are very stressful and inconvenient. Last autumn, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills announced a review of industrial disputes, and we hope to hear more detail on that shortly. At this moment in time the two sides in the London Underground issue are in negotiation and are due back at ACAS on 4 April. I think that this is a good time not to pour petrol on flames.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

Will my noble friend take account of the fact that at many London terminus stations connecting with the Underground, there are huge queues of people and a lot of machines that work only slowly? For London Transport to say at this time, “We are going to close all the ticket offices”, sends out the wrong signal. London Transport needs to overhaul what is going on, at which point it will have a much better case to take to the trade unions.

[Baroness Kramer]

I am afraid that essentially I cannot agree with the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, on this one. Only 3% of journeys actually include going to a ticket office. The number of visits has fallen extremely sharply as people turn to buying online, using machines, taking advantage of systems like the Oyster card and, increasingly, using their bank cards. As he will know, the goal of London Underground is to change the role of those working with these ticketing issues by bringing them out from behind the glass of the ticket office and on to the platforms. They will be given a much wider range of responsibilities to help people, building on the kind of experience we had with the Games makers in the Olympics. They should be able to teach and train people to use the machines and provide support in a much more effective and flexible way. I would think that that has to be the future and a reasonable path to tread.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that we should think very carefully before we impose further restrictions on the freedom of trade union action? If one looks at the strike, one can see that it was not very successful at all. There are also fundamental matters of human rights involved in legislating in this area.

[Baroness Kramer]

Your Lordships are right to say that Transport for London, or London Underground, was able to run about 40% of its trains during the strike and that Londoners, although under stress, found different ways to get to work—as Londoners do. As I say, at this point in time the two parties are talking, and I hope very much that they are talking constructively. BIS is planning a review of the whole area of industrial disputes, and I think it is best if I do not add yet another set of views.

[Lord Kinnock (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that the consequences of strikes in public transport are invariably that people are deeply inconvenienced, demoralised and absolutely furious—with justification? However, would she advise those who are asking for bans on strikes in public transport to acknowledge the fact that in a free society, if workers in crucial services are denied by law the right to strike, their resentments and difficulties will then find expression in even more inconvenient ways? That is the reality of democracy.

[Baroness Kramer]

All Members of this House recognise that there is complexity around all of these issues. They need a great deal of thought and a great deal of debate.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend able to clarify the figure of 3% that she quoted? Does it not represent millions of journeys made on the Underground, and are not the majority of those made by tourists? Do we not want to be able to attract tourists?

[Baroness Kramer]

I do not have a breakdown of how the 3% is divided up although I assume that tourists are a significant part of that number. If tourists can turn to someone on the platform—someone who is clearly in a uniform, who is able to help them and who possibly has access to another language, where necessary, if that might make it easier—and ask that person about their journey and be directed, that could make London Underground very attractive to them. It is similar to what the Games makers did during the Olympics.

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is incredibly impolitic to raise the issue of trade union rights at this time, when in fact the second potential industrial action of this dispute was called off? The dispute is now before ACAS; both sides are talking constructively and we hope for a successful outcome. If there is going to be political point-scoring, all of us can do that. After all, in 2010 the Mayor of London said:

“This Mayor takes his promises to Londoners extremely seriously. Every station that has a ticket office will continue to have one”.

[Baroness Kramer]

I believe that debate in this House and in this country as a democracy is always good, no matter the timing of it. I join your Lordships in hoping for a very successful outcome to these negotiations.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, I invite the Minister to attend Paddington station in the early hours—say between 8 am and 10 am every morning—to see the long queues forming for the ticket office. She might revise her views if she did so. I hope that Transport for London might do the same and recognise that there is validity in the trade union case, at least in that respect.

[Baroness Kramer]

I have often been to Paddington station, and obviously there are additional issues for stations linked to the overground rail. Once again, this is a different way of providing a service, not a case of eliminating the service. It is important to consider how those systems can work effectively. It will ultimately be a decision for TfL.

Railways: Line Resilience

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Monday 10th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made in commissioning a study into alternative inland resilient rail routes to avoid the coastal route between Exeter and Newton Abbot.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have commissioned Network Rail to undertake a study to identify options for providing a resilient rail route west of Exeter and rail access to the coastal communities in the Torbay area. We have also asked Network Rail to implement schemes already identified to resolve weather-related problems in the Thames valley and west of England. However, the immediate priority is to restore rail services on this route as soon as possible.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer but, as we have had a lovely weekend and spring is clearly in the air, it is very easy for Ministers to forget about the disasters of the winter and to hope that they go away and that they will not have to spend the money. Will the Minister agree to come back to the House in a year’s time, just before the election, and say, “We have implemented all these long-term resilience measures that I mentioned, and a few more, and they are either finished or well on their way, and funded”?

[Baroness Kramer]

I always hesitate to say anything other than yes to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. As he will be well aware, we have a timetable for the long-term resilience project. We have completed the projects that were timetabled for 2013-14, such as the Whiteball tunnel, and others are timetabled for future years. However, the essence of what the noble Lord is talking about in terms of having a programme to make sure that we achieve resilience will be done over the next few months. The study that Network Rail is doing will lead to an interim report being published in July, which will result in a very important discussion in this House.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

Will my noble friend also take into account in her consideration the fact that, in finding an alternative route, the opportunity probably exists to cut 20 or 25 minutes off the journey time from Cornwall, which would be a massive improvement, akin to that achieved by HS2 between London and Birmingham? Perhaps she would have a look at that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

I hope that very shortly we will have the terms of reference for the Network Rail study, which it intends to carry out in close co-operation with local authorities and LEPs. Network Rail has made a request to me that people pass ideas on particular routes back to it directly. However, if any Peer wishes to do so through my office, I will make sure that that information is communicated so that the study is as thorough as it needs to be.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister’s initial Answer was very welcome and we look forward to seeing the outcome of those studies. Will she take this opportunity to congratulate Network Rail on bringing the line through Dawlish back into use significantly earlier than appeared to be likely? I understand that Network Rail had something like 100 people working seven days a week on the restoration of the line, and it is to come back into use on 4 April or even earlier. I declare an interest as a member of the First Great Western stakeholder board.

[Baroness Kramer]

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, that that is probably the most delightful question I have ever received because it indeed gives me the opportunity to congratulate and thank Network Rail for its incredibly hard work both during the days of crisis and since. We expect the Dawlish line to be back in use no later than 4 April—well in time for Easter—and that took a very strenuous effort. While I am at the Dispatch Box, perhaps I may also thank: the travelling public, who handled this situation so well; the bus and coach companies, which provided an alternative to rail; the train operators themselves, which provided, for example, special ticketing arrangements whereby people did not lose out because they could not make advance bookings; Flybe, which doubled the number of its flights to Newquay; and probably others whom I have missed. There are many to thank and I appreciate this opportunity to do so.

[Lord Dykes (LD)]

How long will it be before the completion of the new north Oxford to London line?

[Baroness Kramer]

I say to my noble friend Lord Dykes that I do not have the data in the foremost part of my mind. As he knows, the matter is very much under discussion and I will get back to him with whatever detail is available.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, among those for whom there is a residual problem are the poor, beleaguered commuters travelling from Hastings to London, who for weeks now have had disruption due to flooding and have been trying to secure refunds from the rail operative. What are the Government doing to bring those rail companies into line, ensure that people are given a full refund for the tremendous inconvenience that they are suffering, which goes on and on, and bring this to an end quickly?

[Baroness Kramer]

This is the Tonbridge to Hastings route, which was closed because of a landslip. My understanding is that the reopening is delayed due to ground movement. We very much hope that the line will open again shortly but if there are issues—and I understand from the noble Lord that there are—will he pass them to my department and we will make sure that that they are passed on to the appropriate institutions for proper answer?

[Lord Jenkin of Roding (Con)]

I draw my noble friend’s attention to the excellent report produced by the Department of Energy and Climate Change on the severe weather over Christmas 2013. This indicates that a great deal can and has been done but one needs to know about it and find out what it all is. Would not a report of that kind, produced by my noble friend’s department, be extremely valuable?

[Baroness Kramer]

I assure your Lordships that there is constant monitoring, and a cross-departmental ministerial recovery group now meets weekly to discuss flooding issues. We take it in turns within my department to attend that meeting and make sure that the process is ongoing. It is also accurate to say that responsibilities have been divided up among a number of us to make sure that monitoring is effective; my responsibility will be as the ministerial representative for flood recovery for Gloucestershire and Worcestershire. Similarly, others have regional responsibilities and I will make sure that we report back as we get information through that process.

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that the floods have already cost something like £170 million. We are aware that the Prime Minister says that money is no object, and we will bear that in mind when the costings come through. However, how will Network Rail cope with the additional funding that will be necessary, either for the alternative line to which my noble friend Lord Bradshaw referred or for making the Dawlish line absolutely secure? Is the Minister being somewhat premature in praising Network Rail without convincing everyone that its funding will be adequate?

[Baroness Kramer]

Perhaps I can give the noble Lord some reassurance. Network Rail has estimated the cost of resilience projects—not recovery, which is handled separately—at £31 million. It is putting £5 million of its existing funding into the pot, and new money of £26 million is going towards that. If, when we get the interim report, we are starting to look at something much bigger—effectively, new construction—we will need to sit down and plan that properly.

Aviation: Regulatory Burden

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, I am delighted to address this Question for Short Debate which my noble friend Lord Rotherwick has introduced on reducing the regulatory burdens on general aviation. I am grateful to the noble Lord for securing the opportunity for this debate to take place. I am aware of his interest and great expertise which far exceeds mine, so I am delighted that he and other noble Lords with experience have spoken in this debate. This is a useful opportunity to update noble Lords on the work which is currently taking place and to address some of the key issues that have been raised today.

Noble Lords may be surprised by the number of activities covered by the general aviation industry, including maintenance and pilot training, gliding and ballooning, as well as the operation of small aircraft for leisure or business purposes. The sector covers a wide spectrum of aircraft types and activities, ranging from paragliders and microlights to business jets. There are around 20,000 civilian aircraft registered in the UK, of which 95% are engaged in what can be described as general aviation activities.

The value of the GA sector and its contribution to the UK economy should not be underestimated. The 2006 strategic review of general aviation, carried out by the CAA, estimated the UK’s GA industry to be worth approximately £1.4 billion in 2005. This highlights the important economic contribution which is made by the GA sector. The sector currently supports around 50,000 jobs in the UK and has a strong track record of providing high value-added employment opportunities across a range of areas and supply chains.

I am sure that noble Lords are aware of the Government’s deregulatory red tape challenge because it has been so well addressed in this debate. In 2012, all existing aviation regulations were scrutinised, but at the start of 2013, the Minister without Portfolio, Grant Shapps, proposed that a further red tape challenge should be undertaken, specific to GA issues. I am sure that Grant Shapps and Andrew Haines will appreciate the warm comments by the noble Lord, Lord Rotherwick, on what they have achieved, which were echoed by the noble Earl, Lord Liverpool, the noble Viscount, Lord Goschen, and the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw.

In this context, I assure the noble Earl, Lord Liverpool, and the noble Viscount, Lord Goschen, who raised the issue, that the red tape challenge is being handled in a most judicious way. The concern that they raised about medicals is an area that will certainly be reviewed by the GA panel to see whether there are more proportionate ways of delivering the process of providing and maintaining licences. However, it will be done only with an understanding of the importance of the robustness and safety required. When the panel reports, Ministers will consider very carefully any recommendations in this area and will discuss them in great detail with the CAA.

The GA red tape challenge received nearly 500 responses —three times as many as any other theme to date. The responses identified many areas where improvements are needed and highlighted the need for a change in the approach to regulating GA. In response to this, a substantial programme of reform has recently been launched with the aim of helping to support a vibrant UK GA sector.

The Civil Aviation Authority, the independent regulator, has recognised the need to create a culture change in its regulation of the GA sector. It has incorporated the findings of the GA red tape challenge into its own internal review to produce a comprehensive GA reform programme. This will support a programme of deregulation and self-regulation for the GA sector, remove complexity, look to deregulate and delegate where possible and, where not, consider how to allow the GA sector to take on more responsibility and accountability for its own safety where possible and appropriate.

As part of that programme, the CAA announced the setting up of the specialist unit—which, again, has been widely praised in this debate—dedicated to GA issues. I can confirm that it will indeed be operational from April this year. This recognises that the GA requires different, less onerous regulation compared with that for commercial air transport and it demonstrates the CAA’s commitment to addressing GA issues. It will provide effective and proportionate regulation which supports and encourages the growth of the GA sector. As others have mentioned, Andrew Haines, the chief executive of the CAA, and his team are very committed to making the unit a success.

I assure noble Lords that the CAA will work closely with the GA community as regulations are developed, providing opportunities for the sector to challenge those regulations when it believes that they are unduly burdensome. For example—to take up a point that has been raised—there will be far greater scrutiny of the CAA’s fees and charges in order to provide greater transparency. On the issue of onerous fees, the CAA is committed to reducing the charges that it places on the industry, and it has agreed to work to reduce fees and charges by 3% in real terms by 2015-16. It must also report on issues such as efficiency.

The noble Lord raised a number of specific issues, most of which have already been explored by the CAA. They include informed consent, which would allow members of the public to pay for flights which are not designed to meet the same requirements and standards as a commercial carrier. However, it must be stressed that the CAA will consider this alongside other initiatives intended to bring proportionate oversight to address the safety risks associated with aviation activities.

The noble Lord, Lord Rotherwick, is right: the CAA is looking at options for delegating certain functions to industry associations, and he named a number of them. They are well placed to deliver regulatory oversight in a manner proportionate to the needs of the sector. However—and he may be slightly disappointed when I say this—the CAA will seek to introduce market access opportunities for suitable qualified entities because it believes that in some areas where there are no existing arrangements, this will help to provide those new and required opportunities.

The CAA welcomes the GA sector’s involvement in agreeing its charging schemes, as I mentioned earlier, and it recognises some of the concerns expressed about the fees and charges. As a result, it is proposing to establish a GA sub-group of its Finance Advisory Committee specifically to take on the issue of fees to ensure that they are proportionate as well as transparent.

Another specific area of concern is the availability of airspace for GA operators. The community often takes the view that this has been reduced as controlled airspace has grown to favour commercial aircraft. Actually, the opposite may often be the reality. For example, between 2010 and March 2012 the total volume of controlled airspace within the UK was reduced by 214 cubic nautical miles. The CAA is aware of these concerns and ensures that its airspace change process is public and that all decisions made are fully explained. A principal benefit envisaged within the future airspace strategy is the potential to capitalise on the improved performance characteristics of modern commercial aircraft, which will allow other airspace users, including GA, to benefit from the airspace volumes released beneath them.

The GA challenge panel is an important element. It is independent and includes representatives from the GA industry. The panel is providing a “critical friend” function to the CAA and will work with the regulator to challenge its GA reform programme, challenging the CAA to be consistent, transparent and innovative in its approach to GA regulation and supporting the CAA as it strives to deliver genuine change in its approach to GA regulation.

The panel is considering projects which have the potential to promote growth within GA and opportunities for further reducing the regulatory burdens on the sector. It is also considering options for simplifying existing European safety requirements, an issue discussed in the debate, and assessing the progress being made to bring about a culture change within the CAA. The challenge panel will report directly to Ministers Grant Shapps, Robert Goodwill and Mark Harper in the Home Office in April, with an interim report due before then in late January. The panel’s existence will be short term, but the role it is performing and the report it will produce will provide a platform for improving the regulation of the GA sector.

An increasing number of the regulations which impact on GA ultimately derive from the European Aviation Safety Agency. The Government and the CAA have been proactive in lobbying for reform and fully support the EASA road map for general aviation, which came about as a result of the GA sector sharing its concerns about the proportionality of its rules. The EASA has recognised that much of its regulation has been overly burdensome and the road map proposes a series of reforms and changes in approach.

We welcome the fact that the European Commission has accepted the UK's recommendation that an evaluation of the application of commercial aviation safety requirements to general aviation should be included in the rolling regulatory fitness and performance programme. We will continue to work with the European Commission to ensure that this evaluation is both rigorous and evidence-based. Recent announcements such as securing the EU’s agreement to allow the UK to continue issuing the instrument meteorological conditions rating for pilots until April 2019 are encouraging and demonstrate EASA’s willingness to reconsider its regulatory policy in relation to GA. The Government also welcome the CAA’s commitment to eliminating gold-plating of EU regulations and Ministers are due to meet with the EASA next week.

On the serious issues concerning the border agency, I say to the noble Lords, Lord Davies of Oldham and Lord Bradshaw, that the GA challenge panel is meeting with the border agency, hopefully next week. I understand that the issues have been raised and that consideration will be given to whether they are onerous or appropriate. There is a mechanism for taking the issues forward.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, raised the question of airfield planning. Planning issues are always contentious but, luckily, they tend to be local issues.

I shall be meeting the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, on the Isles of Scilly and I thank him for giving me a heads up on many of the issues he will wish to address in that meeting. However, there is not time for me to deal with them now.

The noble Viscount, Lord Goschen, asked about innovation. There is innovation grant funding for GA and the DfT is currently working with the GA challenge panel to identify suitable projects.

There is movement on all fronts. I thank all noble Lords who are present. My time is up. I am not sure that I will be able to take the noble Lord’s question.

[Lord Berkeley]

Could I remind the Minister that I am Lord Berkeley, not Lord Bradshaw? I think she got us muddled up.

[Baroness Kramer]

I consider it an insult to neither noble Lord that I might have confused them for a brief moment. I certainly know who they are, and both are remarkable in the area of transport.

Shipping: Passenger Safety

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact on passenger safety of their application to the Committee on Safe Seas and the Prevention of Pollution from Ships for exemption for certain ships and areas of operation from European safety requirements in order to substitute life rings for life rafts.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government require all vessels to carry enough life rafts to meet the risk to those on board in an emergency. The proposal submitted to the Committee on Safe Seas and the Prevention of Pollution from Ships is based on UK regulations for domestic passenger ships and is supported by the department’s formal safety assessment of domestic passenger ships carried out between 2002 and 2004 in response to Lord Justice Clarke’s formal inquiry into the “Marchioness”/“Bowbelle” collision.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that response. My understanding is that this exemption application applies to passenger ships with up to 130 people on them, which, under directive 2009/45, article 4, allows them to go 15 miles from the place of refuge or five miles from the coast in the summer. The idea is to reduce the number of life rafts to the maximum number of passengers—not allowing, of course, for the fact that you cannot always launch life rafts if a ship is heeling—and to replace the rafts removed with life rings. Does the Minister really think that it is a good idea for people who might be wrecked in an accident in the North Sea or off the Hebrides to have to get into a life ring rather than a life raft?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, my understanding is that this exemption is for up to five miles and therefore would not apply in most of the circumstances that the noble Lord has just described. It is for small craft of less than 24 metres which have to be travelling in daylight and in summer only. They are required to have sufficient life rafts for all passengers but additional safety can be provided by buoyancy apparatus.

[Lord Higgins (Con)]

My Lords, are life rafts generally not preferable to life rings, particularly if the water is cold? Is the saving in this negotiation really significant? Presumably all existing vessels already have the current requirement rather than the reduced one.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, there is clearly some confusion. The EU directive was designed for the large, steel ferries that I think noble Lords are referring to. These are small craft. Existing small craft already have this exemption; it is simply as they are replaced that newer craft can have the same exemption. The rationale is simply that on a very small boat there is very little space for adding one additional life raft, which is what would be required by the directive. You would have to take off passengers. These are usually small, family operations operating on a tight financial margin and, as I say, it is within five miles of the coast so that if something untoward were to happen, modern life rafts are very reliable and air-sea rescue is very close at hand. Therefore, the marginal benefit is considered very marginal.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, I am rather exercised by the fact that Britain over the past 100 years has had the reputation of giving leadership in the International Maritime Organisation, which is across the road there, with the highest standards in world shipping. I am trying to think of the read-across of this to the Philippines archipelago, to Indonesia and so on. Two very brilliant new books on seafaring that have just come out show that many safety standards are now deteriorating. Will the Minister give an assurance that, within the IMO and elsewhere, the British Government will continue to listen to the problems of workers on seagoing ships and that the Government’s contacts with the employers will be equally matched by their contacts with the trade unions?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, the UK has been an absolute leader in marine safety and I can guarantee that this Government will continue to be. I will ask about various discussions that are taking place with the IMO and other stakeholders, and make sure that we write back to the noble Lord.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

Is the Department for Transport involved in any studies looking at lessons learnt from, for example, the “Costa Concordia”, and at the inability to launch lifeboats and life rafts at excessive degrees of heel?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I do not have the answer to the noble Lord’s question but I will obtain it. I want to make it very clear, however, that the exemption being sought is not for a boat like the “Costa Concordia”. We are talking about something much smaller in benign waters very close to shore.

[Lord Greenway (CB)]

My Lords, is not this application one of a number which have arisen from the formal safety assessment by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency which I as a mariner regard as entirely practical?

[Baroness Kramer]

The noble Lord is exactly right. I think that this is regarded by almost everybody as a practical, reasonable and sensible measure. It has withstood over many years a reputation of providing sufficient safety in the relevant circumstances.

[Lord Swinfen (Con)]

My Lords, what would be the comparative rates of survival for the two methods, life rafts and life rings, in cold winter water around our northern coasts?

[Baroness Kramer]

I assure your Lordships that this standard could not apply in winter weather; it is for summer only. It is for boats that are very close to the coast and for small excursion vessels. It is part of an appropriate safety regime to look at how the vessels are being used and to make sure that safety is appropriate to that rather than circumstances in which they cannot be used.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, may I invite the Minister to reconsider her reference to benign waters? Very often, waters that appear benign can rapidly become less benign, and lifeboats are not available at close proximity all along the coast. Can we make sure that if we are erring, we are erring on the side of safety?

[Baroness Kramer]

I can assure your Lordships that, from a UK perspective, this measure meets a very high standard of safety. Both the safety required of the boats themselves and the quality required of the life rafts have been very closely examined. I have learnt in this House that the word “benign” can be wrongly used, but I think that these are generally benign waters.

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is still trying to convince the House that there is virtue in pitching British safety standards below the minimum of European safety standards. Why on earth should that be done unless it is just some doctrinaire response to Europe?

[Baroness Kramer]

Perhaps I may explain, because I think that there is some confusion here. The EU directive which would require an additional life raft is not intended for this kind of vessel; it is for steel vessels and for large-scale ferries, so it does not apply to most of these craft because typically they are fibreglass, and so on. We want to be sure that we are getting an appropriate exemption for future replacement of existing craft. As I said, the EU directive is not intended to deal with this kind of craft; they are expected to be handled through an exemption process.

Railways: High Speed 2

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they plan to establish training facilities in relation to the extra jobs anticipated to be created by the HS2 project.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, we expect the construction of HS2 to generate up to 50,000 jobs, which represents a huge opportunity for the UK workforce. HS2 Ltd is developing skills and procurement strategies that will identify the skills required to deliver HS2 and set out the approach to promoting skills and training throughout the procurement process. The Government will, in responding to the task force of the noble Lord, Lord Deighton, set out what we will do to support and build on this work.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I thank the Minister for her encouraging reply. With the likely approval of this new railway link and the need for 19,000 construction and engineering employees, what action will the Government take to ensure that our youngsters throughout the United Kingdom are adequately trained in sufficient time to take advantage of these opportunities? Secondly, can the Minister tell me whether the Government would consider setting up scholarships related to HS2 so that youngsters throughout the United Kingdom will be able to apply for and, we hope, find employment in this new construction?

[Baroness Kramer]

I thank my noble friend. He is exactly right that the demand for skills would be significant, not only with HS2 but with all the other infrastructure projects that are being launched thanks to the actions of this Government. My noble friend will take some comfort from the fact that the National Skills Academy for Railway Engineering, which was established in 2010 with wide railway industry support, is helping to tackle the current and future skills needs within the industry. It is working closely with HS2 to identify skills gaps and promote railway engineering skills. We obviously have the Tunnelling and Underground Construction Academy, which has played an important role in the Crossrail project; one would assume that it would do so with the super-sewer for London and then HS2. The skills academy is one of the participants, along with BIS and the DfT, with some support also provided by Siemens, in looking at training entry-level employees as well as skilling up others to respond to new technology developments in the industry with initiatives such as the Siemens Rolling Stock Academy.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, when the Prime Minister recently visited China, he announced that the Chinese would help us build HS2. Can we expect several thousand Chinese people to flood into this country, and will they be welcomed in the same way that Romanians and Bulgarians apparently will be?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, the discussion was primarily about finance, rather than the range of engineering skills and jobs on which I have just reported. I can assure the noble Lord that the programme that HS2, along with various engineering companies, is taking out is targeted at schools in Britain rather than those overseas. For example, HS2 sent a contingent of 30 people to the skills show in Birmingham to which youngsters came from all over the country. I am confident that a large number of these skills can be achieved in the UK, creating a base for our youngsters to participate not only in HS2 but in a wide range of engineering projects. However, we will always consider financing from overseas.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend’s enthusiasm is almost infectious but I have not caught it yet. Can she assure the House that no report on the implications and costs of HS2 will be withheld, either in whole or in part, by the Government?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I can confidently say, looking at the size of the body of documents that was disclosed with the hybrid Bill, that the Government have been putting out more data than most people have ever seen around a project of this size and interest. It is crucial that we are open and transparent and, although there will be times when we have internal discussions, the transparency has been quite exceptional in this case.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister look at the very successful National Grid Transco young offender programme, which has trained more than 1,000 young offenders to become workers in the utilities, and see whether it can be applied in this instance? Will she also consider whether young people leaving care, who are overrepresented in the NEET category, can be drawn into this?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, we are looking at this infrastructure project in an exciting way. Rather than treating it within a transport silo, we are looking much more at the regeneration possibilities. The idea raised by the noble Earl has real potential and I will definitely take it back.

[Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)]

My Lords, in the spirit of Christmas, I have two presents: two easy questions for the Minister at this stage. Will the HS2 jobs and skills strategy, to which she referred, be published and, if so, when? Will she also clarify a little more how we will protect the skills developed through Crossrail—to which she also referred—and ensure that they will be available for HS2?

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, there is never an easy question from the noble Lord, Lord Davies, but I do appreciate it. As he knows, the noble Lord, Lord Deighton, is going round the country with a series of consultations looking at the economic growth issues, of which skills are a very important part. Work is happening through many strands: HS2 itself, the work of the noble Lord, Lord Deighton—whose report is expected in the spring—and other more general work with the industry. I will see whether there is a way to pull these strands together into a more comprehensive piece that would give the noble Lord the picture he is seeking.

I have now completely forgotten the second issue. Would the noble Lord mind telling me?

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

I was concerned about Crossrail.

[Baroness Kramer]

Crossrail has done two crucial things on skills. It has played an important role in the tunnelling academy and we want that to carry over. It has also been excellent at engaging with British companies in the supply chain. By number, rather than value, 97% of contracts have gone to British-based contractors. We hope to see that repeated by using the same techniques of outreach.

Dartford River Crossings

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Thursday 5th December 2013 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, I am pleased to address this Question for Short Debate which the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, has secured on the Government’s plans for a new river crossing in the lower Thames area. We have had very thoughtful comments from the three noble Lords who have spoken today, often bringing up issues which have been raised within the consultation. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, was right to say that this is an issue not just of local consequence but with much broader implications.

The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, said that he had seen the bridge built in just four years. Many of us who deal with infrastructure today think longingly of timetables such as that. However, he may be interested to know that the Government are piloting ways in which to accelerate the building of infrastructure. There are four pilots: in Surrey, on the M3 managed motorway between junctions 2 and 4a; in the West Midlands, at M6 junctions 10a to 13, which is also managed motorway; in Derbyshire, at the M1 junctions 28 to 31; and on the A160/A180 Immingham dualling scheme. We will see whether there are some good lessons to learn so that we can start to speed up the delivery of these infrastructure projects, because, as the noble Lord pointed out, that would make sense.

I know that noble Lords are concerned to know the nature and timing of the Government’s plans for a new crossing. I shall try to address that towards the end of my remarks and I hope to provide at least a measure of satisfaction.

Noble Lords will appreciate that there are serious issues at stake in reaching decisions on where to locate a new crossing and whether it should be a bridge or a tunnel. The department is carefully considering the issues reinforced during the consultation and it intends to announce the next steps shortly. I know that that response has been promised by the end of the year, before which I note that there are only three weeks left. I will allow noble Lords to draw conclusions from that statement.

I shall set out the scale of the challenge and what we have done to date. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, reminded us of the history. Fifty years ago, a tunnel was opened between Dartford and Grays. Today, the Dartford-Thurrock crossing comprises two tunnels and one bridge which carry about 140,000 vehicles daily across that part of the River Thames. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, basically said that they carry much more than they were designed to carry. They were designed for 135,000 vehicles, so they are definitely over that, but there is a little comfort in knowing that the current level is not hopelessly over. Of course, we recognise that this is a crucial part of the strategic road network linking London, Kent and Essex, as well as international destinations, with the rest of the UK.

In addition, the existing crossing is located in the area known as the Thames Gateway, which, as the noble Lords, Lord Hanningfield and Lord Berkeley, pointed out, has very ambitious plans for redevelopment and growth, which we obviously want to promote. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, gave us a very personal experience of surviving congestion at the Dartford-Thurrock crossing. I shall think of him and his son trying to decide which of them would be able to get through to the other more easily because the traffic was flowing northbound or southbound but not the other way.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

Anything more sophisticated than the toss of the coin would be an advantage.

[Baroness Kramer]

I think a lot of forecasts are as accurate as tosses of the coin. Let us see what we can do about this. Journey time reliability is important, and this is consistently one of the worst performing links in the strategic road network. We think it is going to get better, not worse.

Successive Governments at national and local level have commissioned studies on congestion and possible new river crossings. The most recent report for the department, done in 2009, identified short and medium-term measures to improve traffic flows. It also concluded that a new crossing is needed in the long term and shortlisted potential locations: option A, at the existing Dartford-Thurrock crossing; option B connecting the A2 with the A1089; option C connecting the M2 with the A13 and the M25 between junctions 29 and 30; and a variant of option C connecting the M2 with the A13 and the M25 and additionally widening the A229 between the M2 and the M20. From the start, this coalition Government have been determined to act and promises made as early as the first spending review in 2010 are now being realised.

Next year will see the introduction of free-flow charging. That will please the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I know he has been waiting for that. Motorists will no longer stop at each end of the crossing to put money into a slot machine or hand it to an attendant. Believe it or not, getting this technology right has not been quite as easy as it sounds, and nobody wants to install a technology, have it go wrong and create that kind of inconvenience. Although it was hoped to bring it in late this year, it will now be coming in 2014. I believe October is the target date.

[Lord Berkeley]

I am grateful to the Minister. I am surprised she said the technology is not working very well because it is working in many other member states. In fact, I met somebody yesterday in Brussels who said that it is not only doing the charging, either fixed-point or road-user charging, but at the same time is checking whether lorries are overloaded, have not paid their licence and other things. The technology is there. It just needs applying to every toll in this country in the same way.

[Baroness Kramer]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for that. I was on the board of Transport for London when we brought in the congestion charge and I can tell the Committee about the nightmare of trying to make sure that we had effective number plate recognition systems and everything else attendant on it. I suspect every one of your Lordships would rather we delayed a bit and made sure it worked faultlessly—that is probably tempting fate—rather than introduced it and had it not function properly.

[Lord Berkeley]

The Minister is right, but it has moved on since then.

[Baroness Kramer]

I fully accept that and hope the noble Lord will be pleased when he sees the system in operation.

The coalition Government are also committed to reviewing the options for a new crossing. In the 2012 national infrastructure plan, a new crossing for the lower Thames was identified as one of the coalition Government’s top 40 infrastructure projects, which are prioritised as nationally significant and critical for growth, and that continues into the current infrastructure plan.

Noble Lords will understand that we face a unique and important opportunity in choosing how to add capacity to the road network to best serve our national interests. Should we add capacity at the existing crossing linking the M25 between junctions 1a and 30, or should we add capacity further downstream linking other parts of the network? Whichever we choose will have substantial implications, and it is clearly a matter of public interest.

To better understand the relative merits of each option, the department embarked on a technical exercise to review the options. Once that review was completed in spring 2013, the department made the findings publicly available and consulted on the options from May to July this year. Noble Lords will be interested to hear that in addition to online communications, the Minister and officials met interested parties during the consultation in a series of briefings, meetings and public information events. Numerous members of the public took advantage of the opportunities and at the end the department recorded and analysed more than 5,700 responses to the consultation.

The noble Lord, Lord Davies, is right. The consultation has confirmed what many noble Lords may have expected; namely, that opinion is divided. Opinion is divided on both the case for a new crossing and on where to locate a new crossing. Those who responded to the consultation expressed a mixture of support and opposition for each of the options—options A, B, C or C variant. Respondents also made detailed comments highlighting serious issues relating to the economic, environmental and social impacts of each of the options. As I have already emphasised, our decision on where to locate a new crossing is of public interest. I know noble Lords would expect the department to respect due process and give careful consideration to the serious issues raised during the consultation. The Department for Transport intends to make an announcement shortly on next steps and to publish a summary of the consultation response. I have no reason to think that we will not be within our target of doing that by year end.

The question at the heart of today’s debate presumed that the Government would have reached a decision on whether a new crossing should be a bridge or a tunnel. Noble Lords raised issues about levels of tolls, whether tolling is appropriate and forms of financing. While the review which the Department for Transport undertook established the engineering feasibility of bridge and tunnel solutions for each location and considered the means by which it could be funded, it is clear that the detailed work that leads to decisions about technical and financial aspects is much more sensibly progressed when the Government have certainty about their preferred location.

A couple of specific issues were raised, particularly by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, that I have not covered. He will know that the department takes the view that a rail crossing would not address the rail-freight capacity issues forecast for the area and that demand for cross-river passenger rail services is likely to be relatively low and so it probably would not offer value for money. However, I am happy to take that issue away and look into it much more thoroughly, as well as looking into the rather strange usage patterns forecast. I will follow up on those issues with the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley.

I think that I addressed most of the direct questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield. There is one further issue on traffic forecasting. As he will know, it is based on population and economic growth and motoring costs. Let us follow up on that when we have more time to look at it.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, for securing this debate and the noble Lords, Lord Berkeley and Lord Davies of Oldham, for their contributions. A new lower Thames crossing represents a unique and challenging opportunity. I have referred to the work undertaken to date to consider the options. I have indicated the high level of public interest in the decision on where to locate a new crossing, and I have advised the Committee that the department intends shortly to publish a summary of the consultation response and announce next steps. I trust that noble Lords will maintain their interest as we progress this important infrastructure priority.

Committee adjourned at 5.40 pm.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Kramer]

That the Bill be read a second time.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Kramer) (LD)]

My Lords, I open this Second Reading by reminding this House why so many of your Lordships across the political divide have given their support to a high-speed rail network. The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, has said:

“There you have the essential case for building High Speed 2 —not as a separate line, physically and operationally away from the current railway, but as a crucial part of a reshaped and improved national network”.—[Official Report, 24/10/13; col. 1226.]

The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, from the Liberal Democrat Benches, who is not in his place but was involved in the previous debate, said:

“It will herald a new era for railways in Britain, and it will form a vital part of bringing together the different parts of England and closing the regional divide”.—[Official Report, 24/10/13; col. 1221.]

The noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, who sends his apologies because he is committed to a speech tonight, said:

“HS2 is about our country’s competitiveness for half a century or more. It is about so many more people sharing growth that has, for too long, been concentrated on London and the south-east. It’s all about drawing together our economy as a whole as well as improving our access to the enlarged, and enlarging, home market of Europe”.

Of course, there are opponents of high-speed rail and specifically of HS2. I respect them; they raise real challenges; and I shall address those challenges today.

The Bill before your Lordships is a paving Bill. Mercifully, it is simple and clear. It grants the Secretary of State authority to incur expenditure, which must be also approved by the Treasury. It describes the route as publicly committed, but allows for future extensions as well as connections to the wider network. It requires an annual report to be made to Parliament for all expenditure incurred, including any variation from budget. It requires reporting on those receiving vocational qualifications as a consequence of the project, and, of course, it is a money Bill. Each phase of HS2 and any future extensions will require a separate hybrid Bill without which construction cannot begin. That will be the opportunity to debate and scrutinise the route in detail and the manner in which the project will be delivered.

There are three key arguments for HS2 and the high-speed rail network that this Bill presages: capacity, connectivity and growth. In Britain, we are running out of capacity on our most important north-south routes. Demand for intercity rail travel has doubled in the past 15 years. By the mid-2020s, the west coast main line, our main rail line connecting London, the Midlands and the north, will be full. That is calculated on very modest figures for passenger growth: 2.2% a year. I should note that for the past decade demand has grown at 4.4% a year or more. Already in 2011, during the morning peak, 4,000 people were standing on arrival into Euston and 5,000 people were standing on arrival into Birmingham. It is close to impossible to get train paths for new services on the west coast main line.

We need a high-capacity answer, and that is HS2. It gives us 18 trains an hour in each direction when complete, each carrying up to 1,100 passengers. By taking long-distance travellers off the existing lines, it releases space on the west coast, east coast and midland main lines to be used for much needed regional and commuter services. Network Rail estimates that more than 100 cities and towns could benefit from the released capacity. It also releases essential capacity for freight: demand for rail freight is forecast to double by 2043, and there is not the capacity to carry it.

I am, of course, aware that many have proposed alternatives: upgrades to our existing lines to provide that capacity. Many of the ideas are interesting—in fact, some will probably be implemented—but they leave us with two problems. The first is scale. Including every reasonable alternative, we can achieve a 24% increase in capacity. HS2 gives us a 105% increase. It is a complete step change.

The second problem is disruption. As upgrades mean working on active lines in daily use, we have to resort to closure for much of the work. This House will have seen the Atkins report showing 14 years of weekend closures, and that is with an aggressive work programme of two simultaneous schemes on each route at any one time. It would frankly be a nightmare.

HS2 also transform connections across Britain. It will link eight of our 10 largest cities. It links up great cities of the north and the Midlands. Just as important as cutting times from London to Birmingham and Manchester, HS2 takes more than an hour off the journeys between Birmingham and Newcastle, York and Leeds. It will be integrated with the nation’s main airports, with stations directly serving Manchester and Birmingham and short connections to Heathrow via Crossrail and to East Midlands Airport from Toton station. It is this new connectivity that provides a spur to growth, and it is the reason why the great northern cities are so supportive of HS2.

My noble friend Lord Deighton and the HS2 taskforce are looking at ways to maximise the growth benefits of the line. The great cities are doing exactly that without prompting. They can see the opportunity to rebalance the economy of the Midlands and the north. The economic analysis shows them gaining double the benefits of the south.

The national gain is £15 billion a year by 2037. Construction and its supply chain alone will provide 19,000 jobs. The Core Cities group predicts that HS2 will underpin the delivery of 400,000 jobs, and 70% of the jobs created by HS2 are expected to be outside London. HS2 will be an opportunity to build a British supply chain, as discussed previously in this House, with skilled jobs for our young people—a supply chain and skill set that will support not just this project but British industry at home and abroad in future infrastructure markets. Of course not every part of the UK benefits from HS2. It benefits more the areas that it physically reaches. However, so does every transport infrastructure project past, present and future; that is a characteristic of infrastructure.

That brings me to the cost. The budget for HS2 is £42.6 billion. That is an upper limit with a contingency of £14.4 billion. Rolling stock will be another £7.5 billion. This means a benefit-cost ratio of 2.3, which is frankly remarkable for a large project, especially given the limitations of a formula that caps passenger demand three years after phase 2 is finished. Sir David Higgins, the new chairman of HS2, has been instructed to bear down on those costs, and he has said that he can and will do so. The noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, recently reminded us that part of those costs can be picked by up the private sector rather than the taxpayer. That is the intention of the Government and will be part of plans going forward.

I remind your Lordships that while the sums for HS2 are large, they are only part of the transport spending budget. In the next Parliament we will spend £73 billion on transport, only £17 billion of which is for HS2. We are tripling the national roads budget and adding 400 extra lane miles of motorway. We are tackling 195 local pinch points to break up jams. We are delivering the biggest rail modernisation programme for generations, with more than £9 billion of government funding for major rail projects, including a new £500 million rail link from the West Country to Heathrow, an 850-mile national programme of rail electrification, Crossrail and Thameslink in London and more than £900 million in flexible funding for smaller schemes.

However, infrastructure on this scale always has some negative impact, and I understand the anguish of those who cherish the countryside along the proposed route. That is why 70% of surface lines between London and the West Midlands will be insulated by cuttings, landscaping and fencing. We are at present consulting at present on property compensation, another issue that is often raised in this House. An exceptional hardship scheme is already in place. The Government have said that they intend to be fair but generous, going beyond the requirements of the law. I urge noble Lords with an interest in this area to respond to that consultation before it closes on 4 December. The detailed environmental statement for phase 1 will be laid alongside the hybrid Bill. It will be the largest environmental impact assessment ever undertaken in the UK.

We have the opportunity today to support a Bill that takes Britain into the future. We cannot opt again for make do and mend, relying on an exhausted Victorian system for our vital rail transport. Doubters have always decried new infrastructure projects, from the M25 to the Jubilee line to HS1 to Crossrail, but we will build HS2 responsibly and within budget. I ask your Lordships across all parties to join in this commitment to a modern rail network that can support our ambitions for growth and our economy. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, what a tremendous debate. Every time this issue comes before the House I learn more, which adds very much to the pleasure. I, too, was appreciative that the Secretary of State came to listen to the early speeches; he then had to leave to vote, but I know that he will read the rest of this debate. I know that that information flow to him is very much appreciated on his part.

Obviously, the overwhelming majority of noble Lords who spoke today spoke so strongly and positively in favour of HS2 and the high-speed rail network that once again I feel almost that the comments that I can make are somewhat redundant; they have been almost better covered by other noble Lords who have spoken. I will begin by trying to pick up on the questions from noble Lords who were perhaps more sceptical, and in particular that issue of cost that the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, mentioned, which was also mentioned by other noble Lords—by the noble Lord, Lord Howard of Rising, in particular, and in a slightly different way by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis.

The cost of the project—the budget—has been set at £42.6 billion. The noble Lord, Lord Howard of Rising, mentioned the figure of £73 billion, which was floated in the Financial Times and some other parts of the press. That is a mischievous number, because of the way in which it is constructed; I was quite sad to see it in a respectable newspaper. It included things like VAT, which obviously comes back to the Treasury and is therefore not a cost to the taxpayer. It also included inflation, although we look at infrastructure projects using current numbers rather than inflated numbers because we do not look at the benefits in inflated numbers. A mischief-making number has, unfortunately, been introduced into this conversation.

I shall say more about cost, because it is important—and what I have to say about it will also address some of the other issues that have been raised. The work that has been done in preparation for High Speed 2, to the point where it is now ready for phase 1 to appear in a hybrid Bill, is far more intense than that for any previous hybrid Bill. I think that that degree of preparation is a good thing, and I am cleared to say that the hybrid Bill will be introduced in the Commons on Monday. That degree of detailed examination and preparation gives us far greater confidence in the actual numbers, particularly for phase 1.

As the noble Lord, Lord Davies, will know—he has read the strategic case—High Speed 2 now estimates that, without any contingency, it could bring in phase 1 at £15.6 billion. The Secretary of State has said that we need to have a little contingency, but he wants to see this come in at £17.16 billion or less. That is the pressure being put on Sir David Higgins, and he feels that it is pressure that he can accept. That is a much crisper number than the more overarching number, including contingency, that we have generally been using. I ask that, as people look at the strategic case, they understand that we are talking about the overarching budget, but that underneath that there is huge pressure to ensure that the cost is pushed down, and we can do that with more and more confidence because of the level of detail that we now have. I hope that that also explains to the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, why there is a generous contingency in all this. The contingency does not reflect the fact that there is very detailed work going on to push the cost down.

That consideration also speaks somewhat to the governance point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rodgers of Quarry Bank. Sir David Higgins, when he comes in, will make governance and driving down cost two of his highest priorities. The governance programme, which sounds incredibly complex as it is read out in a paragraph, actually reflects a number of bodies that have come together to increase the downward pressure on costs. That is part of the reason why there have been so many parties so absolutely focused on ensuring that the costs of the project have been reduced to the greatest extent possible.

In the same context, Sir David Higgins has said that he will look at delivering HS2 faster. There is an underlying question here, which I picked up from a number of people today—for example, from the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Leigh—along the lines of, “Why don’t we start both phases pretty much at the same time?” The answer is that we have the detailed work to be able to go ahead with the hybrid Bill for phase 1, and to hold that up in order to bring phase 2 to the same degree of preparation would hold back the whole project. We are in a position to move much faster on phase 1. I have heard many people in the House today talking about the importance of going as fast as possible; they compared us unfavourably with France, and I can understand why. We are doing this in phases so that we can get into the ground at the earliest possible date.

Benefits will flow from phase 1 alone. It is true that the maximum benefits will come when phase 2 is completed, but from phase 1 alone there is already an advantage, both in capacity going from London through to Birmingham—on the most congested set of routes that we could possibly have—and also in terms of starting the time reduction, which, as others have said, adds to the connectivity and the potential for development in the north and the Midlands.

The noble Lord, Lord Cormack, referred to the Bill as a blank cheque and asked why it does not have a monetary figure in it. The Bill gives permission for preparatory expenditure and contains a very vigorous reporting process under which the Government must report back annually and record any deviation from budget, and the consequences of that. The wording of the Bill has been strengthened somewhat in the other place, which has put in place a very intense scrutiny process around the budget.

One of the reasons why there is no monetary figure is because this is not just the paving Bill for HS2 but allows us to look at extensions. The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, talked about the importance of going beyond HS2 and looking at Scotland. I was up in Glasgow and Edinburgh just over a week ago, announcing formally the initiation of a study which will look at bringing the benefits of high speed to Scotland. Automatic benefits come from bringing High Speed 2 as far as Leeds and Manchester. In fact, Scotland benefits even from the run to Birmingham. However, taking it beyond that, the study will look at how to maximise high speed on existing rail lines and at potentially building what some people have dubbed “High Speed 3”. This paving Bill creates the context for what in the end will be a high-speed rail network. The word “network” matters in the context of some of the questions about economic growth. Dedicated high-speed trains can run only on high-speed lines. However, in addition, these lines can be used by the classic trains which currently operate on our long-distance services. They can travel part of their journey on a high-speed line and then deviate off on to the west coast main line and various other lines, creating a much more interconnected network.

The noble Lords, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara and Lord Cormack, and, to some extent, the noble Lord, Lord Rodgers, raised concerns about the Chilterns and its highly valued landscape. We all value that landscape; I do not think there is any question about that. However, I think that we have also always understood that there are circumstances in which we have to weigh the significance of infrastructure projects against that value. We must mitigate any effects to the extent that we can. I listed earlier many of the mitigations. Looking much more narrowly at the Chilterns, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, that, between Chalfont St Peter and Hyde Heath, which is a distance of 8.3 miles, of which 5.8 miles lies in the area of outstanding natural beauty, the route will be in a tunnel. To minimise the visual impact in the AONB, the following mitigation measures will also be taken: 3.5 miles in cuttings; 1.5 miles in “green tunnel”; 0.6 miles on viaducts; and 1.4 miles with embankments. This means that fewer than two miles of the 13 miles of the route through the Chilterns area of outstanding natural beauty will be at surface level or above. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has asked why we cannot extend the tunnel. Unfortunately, that would require the construction of ventilation shafts and an emergency access station at Little Missenden. Weighing that damaging environmental impact against the current mitigations has led us to the conclusion that we have used tunnelling to the best effect.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

I am very sorry to interrupt the noble Baroness, and it is a very trivial point, but it would have helped if we had been able to have the meeting that I requested over a month ago. It has not yet happened and if it had, we could have explained this. This canard about having to open up an opening near Little Missenden is not what is proposed. The alternative, which I sketched out for her and which I am happy to present to her in more detail, provides for an opening, required under European law, to be within the 22 miles covered by the AONB. It is near Wendover—in fact, at Wendover Dean—it is agreed by residents, agreed by all the authorities around and does not affect the central part of the Chilterns. This point was raised by her predecessor in a debate more than a year ago, and I tried to correct it then. I am clearly not effective at doing that, so can we please meet?

[Baroness Kramer]

As we agreed earlier, I am looking forward to that meeting and I apologise. Because I am new to the department, it has basically been triage. I regret that we did not have the chance to have that meeting before this debate, but we will have it. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, recognises, the course of the hybrid Bill will address many of these issues.

The noble Lord, Lord Cormack, was very concerned that HS2 is a London-centric project rather than one which will spread economic opportunity out across the country. I could make the case in the other direction— I thought that I had in my opening speech, as had the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, and others, in the course of their speeches. I pray in aid the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Leigh, who from his position in Greater Manchester has been able to represent to this House today the great potential that Manchester and the other great cities of the north and the Midlands have seen in this project.

They are using this opportunity in a very positive way, which perhaps is relatively new as a British approach to infrastructure. So often, we have built an infrastructure project in a silo and left it to see if anything good generates around it. In this case, the noble Lord, Lord Smith, and others are working within the various local authorities and within the various key cities. My noble friend Lord Deighton, too, is working with his task force in order to try to reinforce and support the process. This is a very different approach that will ensure that we garner the economic benefits.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, and the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, reiterated the idea of the noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, of development corporations. It is certainly true that the Mayor of London would be able to initiate them—that is already within his competencies. However, the Government are waiting to see how local communities in the areas that will be impacted by HS2 will wish to take these issues forward. It is within the concept of devolution that Whitehall should not always know best how each individual area should approach these questions, but I suspect that in many of the schemes and developments that develop, we will look to capture development gain in various ways. Indeed, the Government have already said that they expect all the stations to be built, essentially, with private money, which in and of itself is a development-gain process. So I fully appreciate those comments and I know that they will be studied closely as we go forward.

The noble Lord, Lord Howard of Rising, raised an issue that has been in some of the literature that has been coming through people’s doors and which I would like to take on. He argues that we are not at capacity, citing an example quoted by one of the campaigning organisations, that trains are only 52% full in the evening peak. I think he is referring to a Virgin long-distance train. Certainly, regional and commuter trains are incredibly heavily used. To remove that Virgin train from the train paths in order to allow expansion of regional and commuter traffic would be a drastic option, widely opposed by passengers. There is sometimes no easy trade-off between the issue of train paths and usage at particular times. I also point out that the evening peak is a very well spread peak. During the morning peak we are pretty close to anyone’s definition of being out of capacity as it is, never mind in the circumstances that we will face as we get to the 2020s.

Perhaps I may move on to thank those who spoke so effectively and with much knowledge in favour of this high-speed rail network project. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, called on the spirit of the Victorian pioneers and the spirit of cross-party working. Both have to inform the way in which we move forward. The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, talked from his experience of actually running the four lines that go out of London. That is always an invaluable and incredibly practical touchstone as we move forward in these debates.

My noble friend Lord Freeman brought to us the experience of being the Transport Minister for HS1. That project gave us the confidence to move ahead with HS2, and the lessons that he is able to bring to this debate are therefore crucial. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, again reminded us of the freight conundrum that we face. In passing, he also reminded us that it is not just the Chilterns that have an issue but the area around Camden, Euston station and the HS1-HS2 link. We must appreciate and do everything we can to achieve the necessary mitigations. In this case, there is close working now between Camden Council and Network Rail, although many issues have yet to be resolved and answered.

The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, provided a constant reminder of the lack of alternatives to HS2. The point was put more clearly by the noble Lord, Lord Snape, when he said: if not HS2, what? One alternative is likely to be an exceedingly intrusive motorway. I am afraid that there would be not just one six-lane motorway if we do not build HS2 but probably two. The impact of that on the environment, communities and areas of natural beauty would be something that this House would, frankly, not relish.

I cannot remember whether it was my noble friend Lord Cormack or my noble friend Lord Howard of Rising who talked about aviation as an alternative. Again, the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Leigh, hit the nail on the head; the discussion around aviation capacity is primarily around international capacity rather than around attempts to build up a domestic aviation network of much greater intensity, but I will obviously bow to the Davies commission as it considers capacity issues in the south-east.

I should say thank you to the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, because on this occasion and previously he made a point that was picked up by others about the cluster potential. That was echoed by the noble Lord, Lord Smith, from the perspective that he and Manchester are looking at development. My noble friend Lord Teverson shared with us reports from Kent of the change from a negative to a positive attitude because of the experience of the benefits of regeneration as a result of HS1.

I am sure that in this whole process there are questions that I have failed to answer. I am reminded that I am coming to my boundary of 20 minutes. I feel that I have had the opportunity to listen to an exciting debate, and if I have not responded to questions we will do so afterwards. Perhaps I may conclude by saying this: let us protect the Victorian spirit that built our railroads, but let us look for an infrastructure that is not Victorian but modern and 21st-century so that we can build the economy of the future. I thank this House and I formally ask that the Bill be now read a second time.

Bill read a second time. Committee negatived. Standing Order 46 having been dispensed with, the Bill was read a third time and passed.

Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2013

Baroness Kramer Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Kramer]

That the draft order laid before the House on 17 October be approved.

Relevant document: 12th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 12 November.

Motion agreed.