Water and Sewage Regulation (Industry and Regulators Committee Report)

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Hollick for his introduction to our debate on this excellent report. He laid out the recommendations that the report makes to the Government, which have been discussed by noble Lords today.

I will pick up a few of the recommendations in particular, looking first at water demand and reservoirs. A lot of concerns have been raised about our water for the future and the infrastructure required to manage it, so I would be interested to hear from the Minister what action the Government intend to take to reduce water demand and to increase consumer awareness about this issue.

On reservoirs, the report confirms in paragraph 308 that,

“despite the need for reservoirs … under current plans, not a single major one will have been built in the UK between 1991 and 2029”.

As my noble friend Lord Chandos mentioned, this is a failure of infrastructure and planning. One of the pieces of evidence taken from Professor Barker was about the Cheddar reservoir and the fact that Ofwat refused to fund it on the basis that the case had not been made—but it was subsequently recognised that it was actually really important. We also know about the issues with the inability to construct the reservoir in Abingdon, which has been going on for years. Mr Black of Ofwat told the committee that

“the planning process will need to align with the needs of water resource management”.

I would be interested to hear the Minister’s response to that. I had a meeting with Mr Black some time ago, and he seemed surprised to hear that in Cumbria they are closing reservoirs. There does not seem to be any joined-up thinking about our future water use, so I would be interested to hear the Minister’s response on our future ability to supply the country with the water that it needs.

One of the issues that my noble friend Lady Taylor raised was about the Government’s response to the report; she said that it was pretty dismissive, and other noble Lords have said similar. The Government seem to be saying, “Well, we don’t need to do that because we are already making plans for water, storm overflow action plans, legislative initiatives and so on”. But the point we are trying to make here is that, although that may be very well, it does not seem to be working. What will the Government do to ensure that it will make a difference?

Let us look at the Government’s Storm Overflows Discharge Reduction Plan. I am aware that, following consultation, the Government have published an expanded plan to extend the targets of the plan to coastal and estuarine storm overflows, for example, but the extended new plan does not answer the criticisms in the report. For example, it is criticised for not setting environmental targets and ambitions at an outcome level. Other criticisms are that there is

“a disconnect between DEFRA and regulators … that ‘DEFRA targets are about the number of sites that are improved, while Ofwat has a proposal … for the number of events per storm overflow’”,

and that the plan

“is very focused on just the water industry and fails to grasp the holistic approach”

needed across all sectors. Can the Minister explain how the Government intend to manage those criticisms and to improve the situation?

In Ofwat’s response to the report, it welcomed the awarding of extra funding for the next two years; we welcome that as well. It also points to the water companies’ commitment of £10 billion of extra investment by 2030. But, as has come out in this debate, how will that be paid for and who will pay for it? Will it land on the taxpayers—the people already paying a lot for their bills? As we have heard, people are not well off at the moment. We have heard again about the dividends given to directors, so whose shoulders should this cost fall on?

Ofwat also claims that companies have pledged to reduce storm overflows by 25% by the 2024 price review. If it is so straightforward for them to say that they can reduce them by a quarter, why has progress not already been made on this? Also, does that mean the reduction or eradication costs regularly cited by the Government are accurate? It does not make sense to me that they can suddenly say that they will reduce them by 25% when it has been, to be blunt, such a pickle.

Back in June the committee launched a follow-up inquiry into Ofwat, the water industry and the role of government, with oral evidence sessions in June and July, including with the Minister, Rebecca Pow MP. I am concerned that the committee’s work on this is ongoing, because that suggests that it was not convinced by the Government’s current approach and response. Why does the Minister think the committee feels it has to continue with this work?

The noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, spoke about his concerns about the ability of the regulators and the department to deliver what is required. This was clearly demonstrated by the Environment Agency’s 2022 performance assessment and the diabolical rating of almost every water company, bar Severn Trent. My noble friend Lady Anderson took some SIs in September on broadening Ofwat’s powers, including allowing the regulator to impose unlimited fines on failing water companies. As this change was announced some time ago, and improved in the Commons prior to the Summer Recess, I ask the Minister when we will see the power used. Does he genuinely believe it will lead to different outcomes? We need different outcomes from what has been happening to date.

Also in September, we had the news that the OEP was looking at whether Defra, the Environment Agency and Ofwat acted unlawfully in failing to prevent water companies’ sewage discharges. The Environmental Audit Committee and its chair, Philip Dunne MP, have expressed concerns around this as well.

Ofwat published its latest annual water company performance report in September, which seems to be quite a busy month for the water industry. The report found that fewer than half of companies met targets in relation to sewage, which triggered a requirement for money to be returned to bill payers. Many noble Lords have talked about the fact that if bill payers are not being served properly, they should have some money returned to them. Does the Minister agree that the Government are at fault and that responsibility lies at the Government’s door for that situation? The Government cut back enforcement and monitoring of water companies releasing into rivers and the sea, and they are now not properly being prosecuted when they are blatantly breaking the law.

One of the committee’s recommendations was to increase the Environment Agency’s resourcing. In their response the Government noted the recommendation but argued that the inquiry was primarily focused on Ofwat, which, as I said earlier, has had extra funds. But should sewage discharge fines not be given to the Environment Agency so that it can expand its enforcement efforts? Does the Minister not agree that that would make more sense?

We believe that the right approach should be to put the water industry under special measures—basically to force it to improve its performance, as that does not seem to be happening otherwise. We believe that there should be mandatory monitoring of every water outlet. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron, talked about monitoring. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, talked about the importance of effective sanctions. We believe that there should be severe and instant fines for illegal sewage dumping and that the money raised should be used to fund additional enforcement measures.

We believe that Ofwat should be empowered to ban the payment of bonuses to water bosses unless their companies hit performance targets. We also believe that we should introduce criminal liability for water company directors whose companies break the law in an extreme and persistent manner. Again, this is something that I have raised with the Minister during Oral Questions.

As my noble friend Lord Whitty said, the current situation is a disgrace. I am starting to lose track of how many times we have debated this or asked Questions about this. As the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, said, it is time that the Government became genuinely more ambitious in this area, because it is really time that we stopped the failures of our water industry.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I hope the noble Lord heard me say that we have changed the rules. Fines by the Environment Agency are no longer capped at £250,000. They can be unlimited and there can be criminal sanctions for companies that break the law.

I think the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, said that £82 billion was paid. I might have misheard him. My understanding is that Thames Water paid its parent company £82 million to finance its debt, but it has not paid dividends to its shareholders in the last six years.

I will move on to the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington. His recommendation for a changing landscape of regulation may well have its time. We need to review these things now and again. It is above my pay grade, but perhaps over time we should think about it.

To those who say that we are not resourcing the Environment Agency, I say that we have increased its annual spend by £2 million a year. That has produced nearly 50 enforcement officers looking at the quality of water. We want to see leaks reduced by 50%, which is an enormous number of litres of water, and have set out very demanding roles for that.

I come to the responses from the Front Bench. I have made my point about nature-based solutions and I hope the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, understood that. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, that we will continue with this work. It is continuous; this is not an issue that is of a single moment in time. Our strategic policy statement to Ofwat showed an absolute step change in how we saw the regulatory framework for water companies. I suggest that she was slightly confusing Ofwat and the Environment Agency on enforcement. The Environment Agency is the organisation that enforces water companies; Ofwat sets the parameters and is the regulator.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I was suggesting that some of the money given to Ofwat could be given to the Environment Agency for enforcement.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I will take that away. I think that they are both funded properly. I want to make sure we continue to do so and allow them to carry out the work the Government require of them.

I will just touch on the reservoir issue. The draft plans contain proposals for multiple new supply schemes, including nine new desalination schemes, nine new reservoirs including an addition to the Havant Thicket reservoir that is being built, 11 water recycling schemes, and many new internal and inter-company transfers to share resources.

It is not just water companies that need to take action to protect our water supply—it is every single one of us. That is why the Government’s Plan for Water sets out clear action to reduce demand. The game-changer in the Plan for Water makes it easier to build reservoirs. The new water resources—through the Regulators’ Alliance for Progressing Infrastructure Development, known as RAPID—and securing planning consent through the DCO process, including having water resources infrastructure as a national asset, are certainly making things better on that front. I hope we will see an easier process. The noble Baroness quite rightly raises Abingdon reservoir; that has been going on for more or less as long as I have been alive. I want to make sure that very important structures like that are built. We cannot just go through a circular process of planning inquiries, with very smart lawyers who delay getting important assets built.

With that, I think I have covered most of the points raised. In conclusion, I again thank the noble Lord and his committee for their detailed work on these important issues. I welcome the opportunity to debate these matters in the House. I have confidence that the plans that this Government have put in place will deliver the greater investment, tougher regulation and stronger enforcement needed to transform the water industry and ensure that the clean and plentiful water we need is available for generations to come.

Farming: Net Zero

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness says something is so when it is not. There are so many rules to prevent farmers removing hedgerows. There are cross-compliance measures within ELMS, which will replace the basic payment scheme. I do not know where she got that information, and I wish other members of her party at the other end would stop saying this because it is not true.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I, too, pay tribute to Minette Batters. She has been an extraordinary leader, and these Benches support all the work she has done to bring farming towards net zero. We know that the use of smart technologies and more efficient equipment can help farmers reduce their environmental impact, whether that is through reduced emissions, improved yields or reducing damage to natural habitats. However, many farmers are struggling to make ends meet and the cost of borrowing has increased greatly in recent times, which makes new equipment out of reach financially for many farmers. What assessment have the Government made of the potential role for farming co-operatives in acquiring and sharing such equipment, and what role would the Minister see for his department in this area?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

There has been a great increase in machinery rings, whereby farmers work together to share equipment. That has reduced their fixed costs and assisted with their working capital. Defra is assisting farmers through our £270 million Farm Innovation Fund, including £15 million to assist farmers in putting solar panels on their barns. However, there is much more we can do to help innovation. Earlier my noble friend made a point about encouraging younger people into farming, who understand the technologies that are available and embrace them. They need to feel that they are assisted by government and the agricultural education sector, and that there are grants available to help them work together to use innovations that reduce their carbon footprint but also help with their bottom line.

Combined Sewer Overflows

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, we have had discussions about sewage discharges over a number of years now, including several extensive sessions during the relatively recent passage of the Environment Act 2021. Everybody is clear that, under the law, sewage should be discharged only in exceptional circumstances—everybody it seems but the Government, the arm’s-length bodies their Ministers are responsible for and the water companies those bodies regulate. In the OEP’s view, Ministers and regulators are guilty of

“misinterpretations of some key points of law”.

That is extremely worrying. We also think it is worrying that the Environment Secretary has chosen to disagree with her own environmental body, in one of its first major investigations of government conduct.

During the passage of the Environment Act, colleagues across your Lordships’ House voiced concern about the OEP’s lack of enforcement powers. Regardless of one’s views on the European Court of Justice and the European Commission, the previous situation was clear: if the Government were found to have acted unlawfully, there could be fines or other enforcement action. Could the Minister confirm today that, if the OEP recommends legislative or regulatory changes, or seeks to take enforcement action against Defra, his department will comply? Does he regret that this question even needs to be asked, following the adversarial approach adopted by his Secretary of State?

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I suggest I have a different understanding of how an OEP investigation works. Let me be absolutely clear about this: the OEP has not satisfied itself, on the balance of probabilities, that Defra has failed to comply with environmental law; rather, the OEP believes it has reasonable grounds for suspecting the Defra has failed to comply with environmental law and has asked us for more information to help it make its decision, and of course we are complying with this process. Her allegation is that this is a done deal; the OEP’s concerns that the Government have somehow broken the law is under discussion. We now have two months to reply, and the OEP then has two months to adjudicate.

The aims of the OEP investigation are to clarify the roles and responsibilities of the public authorities—Defra, Ofwat and the Environment Agency—and to determine whether they have failed to comply with their respective duties. The OEP will consider the responses from all three public authorities in detail before deciding next steps. We should not prejudge its conclusions. The OEP’s press release clearly states that:

“If the response changes the OEP’s view on whether there has been a failure to comply with the law, or sets out steps the public authority intends to take to rectify the failure, then the OEP may decide not to take any further action in relation to the alleged failure(s).”


My answer to her final question is: yes, of course we will comply. We have created the OEP to try to find the best possible way to hold government to account on environmental policy following our leaving the European Union, where we were subject to infraction fines if we had broken the law. Through the Environment Act, we wanted to create something that held government departments to account. We believe in the OEP and what it does, and we will certainly comply with its findings.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991: New Breeds

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I love agreeing with my noble friend but I cannot in this case. It was a very bureaucratic document that cost more than it amounted to and was no more than a tax on dog owners. It would not deal with this problem effectively because the people who keep the predominant dog species involved in these attacks would not, by and large, have bothered getting a licence anyway.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, we know that the American bully is easily recognisable but concerns have been raised that it would be hard to define it within the framework of the Dangerous Dogs Act as it exists at the moment. The breed is not recognised by the Kennel Club, for example. The Minister and other noble Lords have talked about the importance of replacing or updating the legislation. It is not working at all for cross-breeds. The Minister has talked about the fact that many of the attacks are not done by dogs that are covered by the legislation, so I really do urge him to commit to updating the legislation because I cannot see how we will move forward without it.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am very happy to have a discussion with the noble Baroness and any others about what precisely they mean by updating this legislation. Many campaign groups, such as the Dogs Trust, want us to get rid of its breed-specific nature as part of any reform. I am concerned about that because it might remove some of the elements that work, but we are open to those discussions.

Hunting Trophies (Import Prohibition) Bill

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 12th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

Every amendment is in a group.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Can I invite the noble Lord, Lord Hannan, to support our amendments tomorrow, since he clearly laid out what this House does? Some amendments tomorrow exactly cover the kinds of issues that he was talking about.

Clearly, the Bill deals with a very passionately felt issue, with strong views on both sides of the argument. That has come across today in Committee and previously. The debate was introduced by the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, with his Amendment 1. However, before referring to that, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, for introducing this Private Member’s Bill and for her excellent introduction at Second Reading. We offer our strong support to this Bill. I remind noble Lords that the ban which has been debated has widespread public support and clear cross-party support in Parliament.

There are many amendments in front of us today, but our concern around Amendment 1 is that the effect of the noble Earl’s proposal would be to grant to the Secretary of State alone the power to decide whether a legal prohibition applies, where it is within scope. We do not think that is the correct way to go forward with any legislation. We have said with regard to many Bills that the strong Henry VIII powers being given specifically to Secretaries of State is not how to go forward with legislation. Also, the proposal is not a standard clause retained within conservation or animal welfare legislation, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned. That is specifically why we would not support Amendment 1.

The noble Lord, Lord Trees, tried to speak to Amendment 34. I would like to make a point about the groupings. Degrouping every amendment from the proposed government groupings to deliberately frustrate the progress of this Bill is pretty poor and undermines a manifesto commitment of the party that those noble Lords say that they support. They are part of this Government. They sit on the Government Benches. This is pretty poor behaviour on their part, and I want to put that on the record.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Mancroft (Con)]

Well, it was lovely to have that domestic entertainment, but the point I was trying to make is that we should not be basing serious legislation on rather dubious public opinion polls. In-depth research is useful, but the ballot box is the real thing that we do. I do not think we should be doing this on public opinion polls, but we have an opportunity to take the Bill back to the original manifesto commitment, if that is what everybody is so obsessed about.

I notice, however, that most manifestos have God knows how many items in them which nobody takes any notice of at all. They discard them at will when they are not interested in them, then grab them and hang their hats on them when they think they are very important. I must admit that my noble friend Lord Robathan is absolutely right, in that I do not see queues of people going around Parliament Square waving placards because of this Bill or issues like it. There are more important things on their agenda.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

It is interesting that the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, said no one asked him about this. My noble friend Lady Anderson and I were in the House of Commons more recently than he was, and we had a great number of letters on this issue. On the other hand, it could be that only socialist ladies get them.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

The noble Baroness may well be right, because I was in the House of Commons until 2019 and I got no letters on this subject. I was on the Hunting Bill committee when I first came into the House of Commons and I got a lot of letters about that, mainly because all the evidence was being ignored in favour of prejudice.

Clothing Sales: Sustainability

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I have not seen that document, but I know that the UK fashion industry directly generated an estimated £28.9 billion gross added value contribution to the UK economy. That is a factor. Of course, we want that to be a sustainable industry, but I hope we take great pride in the fact that this country has a leading role in the international fashion industry and we want that to continue.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, textiles recycling varies significantly across different local authority areas. As we have heard, although some fashion retailers offer their own recycling schemes, both councils and retailers have the same problem: not everything is recyclable, so a proportion of material will always end up in landfill or being incinerated. This situation is not helped by fashion brands and retailers that purposefully destroy old stock rather than offering it at a discount. How do the Government plan to improve access to textiles recycling, while also ensuring that there is transparency about its limitations?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We have made some progress. The Textiles 2030 policy, promoted by WRAP, helps signatories to reduce their water and carbon footprints per tonne of clothing by 18.2% and 21% respectively. We want to help local authorities with the work that they are doing and they are being funded to bring forward changes to packaging recycling collections through the extended producer responsibility payments. Separate food waste collections will be funded via new burdens payments, and new collection requirements for consistency in recycling for households in England will come in shortly.

Land Use in England Committee Report

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Tuesday 25th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by declaring my interest as president of the Rare Breeds Survival Trust, but also as co-chair of the APPG for the Timber Industries and the work that I do with them.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, for his excellent introduction, and all the members of the committee who have taken part in producing the report and who have spoken in the debate today. It has been a really important debate, and one that I am sure that we will continue. In particular, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Carlisle on his valedictory speech and wish him happy birthday for yesterday. It has been a real privilege knowing the right reverend Prelate—Bishop James—initially through the Church in Cumbria, then as a Member of Parliament, and now in your Lordships’ House. He has given many of us his experience, knowledge and wisdom in everything that he has worked on. He will be missed both here and in Cumbria.

When I was reading this report, I found that it drew a close focus on to why we need a land use framework: the fact that there is a finite amount of land in England yet increasing pressures on what this land needs to deliver. The current system, where different needs are delivered in isolation by different teams and organisations following policies set by different departments, is inefficient and, as we know, can have unintended and unforeseen consequences. The report talks about the challenges, pressures and missed opportunities from working in these siloes. This point has come across very strongly in the debate. As we have heard, it does not have to be like this, and I hope the Government will take much of what is in the report and actually act on its suggestions.

My noble friend Lady Mallalieu talked about the fact that there is already a land use strategy in Scotland and that Wales has produced Future Wales, its spatial plan. So, England is missing out on this cross-departmental approach to how we are going to use our land in the future. It is good that Defra is developing its land use framework for England, and I am sure we all look forward to its publication in May.

Listening to the debate has thrown up a number of questions that face planners, farmers, landowners, land managers, local authorities and local communities all over the country. For example, how much food should the UK actually aim to produce? Where should it be produced? How can we improve our food security? How do we grow more healthy food that is suited to current conditions and future conditions as we face the challenges of climate change?

How much land needs to be devoted to energy—to solar, wind, nuclear, tidal—and where should this infrastructure go? How do we incorporate this green infrastructure right across the landscape while improving public access to nature, as noble Lords have said? How sustainable does the UK want to be for timber production, for example, and other green building materials? What should we be growing and where? Where should we build our houses? As the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, said, what are we going to do about water and reservoirs? Again, that is something we need to take much more seriously.

There has been much debate about food production and the challenges facing farmers and agriculture. The food strategy the Government set out last year said that domestic food production is a vital contributor to national resilience and food security, but we have heard about the challenges of Brexit and Ukraine, as the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, mentioned. They demonstrate that our food system has a fragility, with many farmers struggling.

We also know from this debate the importance of nature and food security working together. It is critical that land use and yield are viewed in a holistic and balanced way, recognising that some land—we have heard about the peat and wetland we could use for carbon sequestration, for example—is better used for nature restoration while other land needs to balance the needs of nature at the same time as delivering good agricultural yields. The noble Baroness, Lady Rock, talked about the challenges for tenant farmers; that has to be taken into account.

If we are looking at nature and biodiversity, agriculture and land use change is not only driving climate impacts but causing a dramatic decline in wildlife—as we have heard from many noble Lords today—meaning that we are one of the most nature-depleted countries on earth. It is shocking to me that that is continuing to get worse; we are not turning it around. We really have to grasp the nettle on this—I know the Minister feels strongly about it—because, with the right approach, responsible land management can produce the food we need while at the same time creating space for a diverse range of plant and animal life to thrive.

Noble Lords have talked about the importance of forestry and woodland, but the woodland targets set out in the England trees action plan have not been reached. There were a number of reasons why Confor said that this was the case, the first being uncertainty as to what land trees can be planted on. We need to grasp this.

The noble Lord, Lord Cameron, mentioned farmers’ concerns about moving to tree planting, so how are we going to address this? As the noble Earl, Lord Leicester, mentioned, we have heard how trees and different planting schemes can contribute to carbon sequestration. However, the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, asked a number of questions about exactly how we measure this—how do we know what we are achieving?

Tourism and access to nature was mentioned by noble Lords. Many people want better access, improved rights of way, and value; as we heard, the benefits of enjoying the countryside and getting outside in nature were very much apparent during Covid. In particular, my noble friend Lord Rosser talked about the section of the report which mentions access and open spaces and how important that is for health and well-being, and that the commitments to access do not have the same status as other land commitments. He asked a number of important questions about how we will manage rights of way in the future.

Housing and planning were mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, the right reverend Prelate and a number of other noble Lords. How do we consider new housing and associated development alongside the energy and related infrastructure we need when we are developing new housing? Water is part of that, because it puts significant demands on land in very specific areas. Again, how do we decide where those areas are and what we need?

The report does not propose that the land use framework set any distinct housing development policy or replace the planning system in any way. However, you cannot ignore the interaction of housing with land use, so we need to somehow bring this together in a sensible and practical way.

Green infrastructure was discussed. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron, said that it needs to be in the right place, not on productive land, and the noble Baroness, Lady Rock, talked about that in relation to solar farms, for example. In the report, Natural England suggested that

“it would be beneficial to fully integrate energy and other infrastructure planning with other aspects of the land use and marine planning systems”.

Again, I would be interested to hear the Government’s and the Minister’s response to those comments.

However, the key thing that came through was the issue of multifunctionality. The noble Earl, Lord Devon, talked about this at some length, and about the NFU’s concerns and the pressures that come from farmers on how to deliver this. The NFU’s briefing, for which I thank it, said that its vision for a land-use framework is based on a principle of land sharing—the delivery of multiple outputs and benefits from the same parcel of land—not land sparing, which is the repurchasing of farmland to deliver new outcomes, and that it must represent viable business propositions. That is a really key point. You cannot expect farmers not to maintain viable businesses. Given the finite land area of the UK and the importance of our food security—it has been fairly volatile recently, and we need to recognise that—we need to ensure that our countryside is a multifunctional and dynamic space.

I also thank the Nature Friendly Farming Network for its report, Rethink Food, which explicitly recognises that farms play multiple roles in our national economy and landscape. They produce food but also protect, restore and expand habitats and ecosystems. We must therefore ensure that these land-use decisions have all the different targets, needs and aspirations we need as our country moves forward. As the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, said, we need to achieve a flexible framework, and we need flexible encouragement; we do not need a top-down approach.

In the light of the Government’s land use framework, which is due in May, and their decision not to accept the report’s recommendations on a land use commission to deliver on the outcomes we need, can the Minister confirm that the May report will be substantial and, as the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, said, that all the different sections of government will have contributed to it, so that it is substantial and capable of delivering what the excellent report we have been debating today clearly shows is needed for the future of our land?

Animals (Low-Welfare Activities Abroad) Bill

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 14th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Black of Brentwood, for his excellent and thorough introduction of the Bill to your Lordships’ House, as well as Angela Richardson MP for steering it through the other place. I would also like to thank a number of charities that have been campaigning on this issue: the RSPCA, World Animal Protection, Animal Welfare and Four Paws. In particular, I want to thank Save the Asian Elephants and Duncan McNair, who is with us today. I genuinely believe we would not be here debating this Bill were it not for the work that he has done, and I congratulate him.

As has been mentioned, the Bill has strong cross-party support. The legislation will represent a significant step forward in protecting wild animals from the cruelty and exploitation that we have been hearing about in this debate. It will also demonstrate the UK’s role in establishing world-leading standards on animal welfare in this area. However, to realise this ambition the Bill must deliver effectively its objective of banning the promotion and sale of animal activities abroad that would be illegal under domestic legislation.

We have heard that the intent of this Bill has overwhelming public support, and we have heard the poll evidence to support that. Every year, hundreds of thousands of wild animals are exploited for entertainment in the global tourism industry. As research has shown, one of the problems is that many of these wildlife tourist attractions have impacts of which the tourists who take advantage of them have absolutely no idea. Common examples that we have heard include elephant rides and swimming with dolphins experiences. For these actions to take place, there are cruel training techniques, coercive control, conditioned unnatural behaviours, stressful interactions and so on. Many of these animals are highly intelligent and this is appallingly cruel treatment.

By discouraging the sale and promotion of such activities, the proposed Bill aims to help steer the market towards promoting more ethical and welfare-friendly tourism. Some travel companies have taken steps to restrict the sale of low-welfare activities to their customers but, unfortunately, many well-known companies continue to sell these cruel and exploitative wildlife experiences.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Black, for mentioning Helen Costigan and her sister. They had the most appalling experience and terrible tragedy, and it is important that we put into the context of this the human tragedy that can come out of the treatment of animals in this way.

We support the Bill because it aims to improve animal welfare overseas by prohibiting the sale and advertising of such activities. To ensure the smooth passage of the Bill, we are not going to table any amendments. However, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, said, there are some areas where we would like clarification from the Minister to ensure that it meets its objectives effectively.

Activity regulations must reflect the changing market for low-welfare activities abroad. Regulations must be kept in alignment with changes in domestic animal welfare legislation as well as evolving scientific understanding of animal sentience and its impact on animal welfare. In the absence of a duty to review regulations, is the Minister able to confirm how activity regulations are going to remain comprehensive and up to date?

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned some of our other concerns so I will not go into great detail, but one is the use of the phrase “principal market” in Clause 2(5)(b). Our concern, as she laid out, is that this could open up a loophole. We agree with her that removing “principal” from the clause would mean that the legislation covered any advertisement intended for England or Northern Ireland and remove any confusion. I wonder if the Minister would consider taking that back to his department to have a further look at it.

The other concern is about widening the parameters of committing an offence, as raised by the noble Baroness. She talked about “relevant”, which is extremely important. We are concerned that it risks excluding from prosecution people based in Scotland or Wales who sell or promote regulated activities in England or Northern Ireland, as she laid out. We agree with her that omitting “relevant” would close that potential loophole. If the Minister were able to clarify that the department would look at that how that loophole could be addressed, we would be grateful.

We very much support this legislation and want it on the statute book but it is important that it is fit for purpose, so we look forward to the Minister’s reassurances regarding the questions that we have asked.

Domestic Animals: Welfare

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We work with local authorities to make sure that that is happening. There is a standard required and I am pleased that it has been brought in. I am open to any suggestions of where there has been a failure in regulation, inspection or the physical circumstances of a dog. It is important that this standard is universally applied.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, while much online animal torture content originates from abroad, some appalling photos and videos shared on social media platforms involve the abuse of domestic animals in the UK. In opposing my noble friend Lady Merron’s amendment to the Online Safety Bill yesterday, the Government insisted not only that online instances of animal mistreatment are covered by the 2006 Act, and are therefore in Defra’s remit, but that prosecutions against abusers are regularly brought. Can the Minister confirm the number of successful prosecutions in each of the last three years?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I do not have that information to hand. However, I hope that all in the House agree that posting grotesque acts of animal barbarity online should be controlled. We have to make sure that we have control over legislation that affects people in this country. If this is being done around the world, it is not impossible to legislate against it but it is more complicated. We want to make sure that, through this and other legislation, we are doing this in the right way and legislating where we can be effective.

Live Animals: Export Ban

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

It is certainly not the latter. You have a manifesto commitment, which you deliver over the course of a Parliament—that is what we are going to do. But the noble Baroness can sleep easy, because not one single animal is being exported. There is one vessel, the “Jolene”, which operates out of Ramsgate, which has not exported a single animal for fattening or slaughter. The concern that people have is that animals are going to be exported to other parts of Europe that have lower welfare standards in their slaughterhouses than we do in ours. That is a legitimate concern—and something that the Government want to make sure will not recur.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister said he hopes this is going to be a government Bill, so why does he not just bring back the kept animals Bill?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

One of the items in the kept animals Bill, on the keeping of primates as pets, is a good example of something we can deliver more quickly than we could in an all-encompassing Bill, and we are going to do that through secondary legislation. We are in consultation with a number of people who will bring forward items through Private Members’ Bills, with the Government’s support. We want to get all of them on the statute book, but I hope that the noble Baroness, like me, is proud of what this Government are doing for animal welfare.