EU: British Nationals Resident Overseas

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest as the co-owner of a vineyard, wine business and house in France.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, as the Prime Minister has said, there will be no immediate changes in the circumstances of British citizens living in the EU, for European citizens here or in the way that our people can travel. The Government have committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people now that the decision has been made to leave the EU.

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer]

I thank the Minister for her reply. I am sure that the 1.2 million British nationals living in the European Union will be pleased to hear that there will be no immediate change. However, two years is no time to relocate your business, take your children out of school, relocate to a different country and buy a new home. Will this country negotiate on a bilateral basis with each of the 27 member states or will they negotiate en bloc? Secondly, in the new unit to be based in Whitehall, which was also mentioned in yesterday’s Statement, will there be a member of staff with special designated responsibility for this area of work?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, clearly, those who are negotiating the terms of our relationship with the European Union will do that work, with a very firm view about the importance of preserving the rights of British citizens wherever possible. I feel sure that whoever is the next leader of the Conservative Party and Prime Minister will put first and foremost in his or her mind the importance of bringing the country together and getting the best deal possible. Therefore, I cannot give any details in answer to the first part of the noble Baroness’s question. On the unit that is being set up, the Prime Minister and my noble friend the Leader of the House made it clear yesterday that the brightest and best from across government, but also from outside government, will be brought together to ensure that ground work is done in order that, when there is a new Prime Minister and new Government, the negotiations can go ahead.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, although I agree with the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, will the Minister agree that if we go ahead and withdraw from the European Union, it would be quite wrong for someone who lives, let us say, in the south of France, to continue to be a Member of this House?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I do not think that this House has ever taken action against noble Lords because of the country in which they live. That introduces a new prospect, but it would be a matter for the House and not for the Government.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, does there need to be any negotiation to protect the interests of either British people living in Europe or Europeans living in the United Kingdom? Surely they are protected by an international treaty as it stands today.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, although I know that my noble friend asked that question in very good spirit, I am afraid that I cannot give him the good news that he would like. There is the question of acquired rights, which is a very complex legal matter and not straightforward. We would need to rely upon negotiations to give certainty to those who do, after all, need and deserve it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to pick up on exactly that point. It is not only the markets that are extremely worried by the uncertainty. People’s lives are affected; people who have lived in this country for 20 years—like my husband, who woke up on Friday morning thinking that his country had rejected him. That creates a fear, and we need to ensure that we respond to that fear. There is another point: British people who live in mainland Spain in Gibraltar are going to be even more worried. We need clear guidance to ensure that people are not anxious and can get on with their lives and work.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I entirely agree with the noble lord and that will be the thrust of the work to be done by the unit being set up. I feel sure it will be at the forefront of the minds of those who carry out the negotiations later this autumn.

With regard to Gibraltar, my colleagues in the Foreign Office have of course been in contact throughout with the Gibraltarian Administration, and we have given every indication of full support for their sovereignty and that we will not let them down.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister not recognise that the assurances given by the Prime Minister are a bit of a wasting asset, not because he will no longer be Prime Minister but because, as the negotiations go ahead, the people we are talking about will become increasingly anxious about the outcome? Will the Minister try to ensure, first, that these people are consulted when the Government are making up their position—it is not too difficult to have consultations and it will help—and secondly, that they are kept informed at each stage of the negotiations so that the rather complex arrangements they may have to make to take care of their interests are done in full knowledge of what is happening?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble lord makes an important point and anybody who carries out the negotiations will have in mind that, in bringing the country together, it will be vital to take account of the interests of those so directly affected. In the interim, as soon as the decision was known on Friday, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office ensured that there was a system whereby anybody who phoned in with concerns about these matters was able to get an answer and a reassurance at that stage.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

While it is relatively clear, at least as far as England and Wales are concerned, what the outcome of the referendum was and that the Government have no choice but to abide by that, what was far from clear last Thursday was the alternative that was on offer. What proposals do the Government have for bringing definitive statements to both Chambers of Parliament, and how will a decision be taken on the alternative that should then be taken forward?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That specific procedure will clearly be a matter for consideration by the new Government but in the meantime, as my noble friend the Leader of the House made clear yesterday, there is a system whereby parliamentarians may contribute their views. Indeed, she pointed out that there will be ways in which we hope Members of this House will use their expertise to inform the process—beginning, I believe, next week with a debate.

Iraq: Isis

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of reports of the public burning to death, in Mosul, by ISIS, of 19 women from Iraqi religious minorities.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of reports of the burning to death of up to 19 Yazidi women in Mosul. We are not able to verify these reports, but it is clear that Daesh has carried out appalling atrocities against Muslims, Christians, Yazidis and other communities in Iraq and Syria. Ultimately the only way to stop Daesh carrying out such abuses is to liberate all the people currently under its control.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in thanking the Minister for that reply, may I tell her that yesterday, speaking here, a young Yazidi woman, Pari Ibrahim, who has seen 21 men and 19 women from her family murdered, described the mourning which has gripped her community in the aftermath of last week’s primeval burnings—which were driven, of course, by ISIS’s ideological hatred of difference? That young woman asked—and I would like to ask the Minister the same question—what we were doing to free the more than 3,000 other Yazidi and Christian women and girls held captive by ISIS. Why has not a single person, including returning jihadists, yet been brought to justice? Following the unanimous vote of the House of Commons two months ago declaring this to be a genocide, have we raised this in the Security Council? Are we creating the judicial mechanisms necessary to bring to justice those responsible for these abhorrent and wicked crimes?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, there were at least four questions there, but in deference to the bravery of Pari, whom I have met on other occasions and met again last week to discuss these matters, I say that I do not doubt the determination and sincerity of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in raising these matters. The House should not underestimate the determination of the UK Government to be able to resolve the horrific experiences which Pari’s family has seen and which have been experienced by other groups, whether it is LGBT people being thrown off rooftops or women being undermined in their communities. We are making our best efforts with allies around the world to find new ways of collecting information and of working at the United Nations to bring justice to those who so richly need it.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, it is hard to find language adequate to describe the events in Mosul last week. Clear evidence is coming out of that part of the country that those women were put into cages and set on fire. They burned screaming for their lives in the presence of huge crowds which were forced into the squares to watch this happening as a lesson to them all. The women were there because they had refused to have sex with their ISIS captors. Yazidi women who have been captured are being used as sex slaves. They are appearing on platforms to be sold. They are also being subjected to repeated rape. If ever anything was a genocide, this is. As our nation sits on the Security Council with a special position as one of the five with a veto vote, I wonder whether we could have this placed on the Security Council agenda, which does not involve any vetoes. We could have it on the permanent agenda. Are we doing anything to secure that place on the agenda for this issue?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is a fact that Daesh uses these most appalling treatments and murders in order to subjugate people. It is therefore important that when we consider them, we look very carefully at how we communicate what has been happening and that we also look carefully at the evidence of what has been happening. Taking a political action is a matter of a moment; it does not deliver justice. The commitment of this Government to delivering that justice is absolute. It consumes the work that I do and the work of those in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and in other departments who are helping me and who have great expertise, because we know that it is only by delivering justice in that area that we can not only help people there but ensure that there is more security elsewhere.

[The Lord Bishop of Worcester]

My Lords, at the wonderful parliamentary prayer breakfast in Westminster Hall that I attended this morning along with 750 others, including 150 parliamentarians, many of them from this House, we were addressed by Bishop Angaelos of the Coptic Orthodox Church in the UK. He spoke movingly of the plight of Christians in the Middle East. While I acknowledge that the vast majority of those killed by ISIS are Muslims, will the Minister assure the House that the Government will work ever more closely with the leaders of the appallingly persecuted Christian community in the Middle East, such as Bishop Angaelos, and other religious leaders there in order to learn their perspective on what is happening?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The right reverend Prelate makes a vital point, and indeed I do give that undertaking. I was very fortunate that a couple of weeks ago Bishop Angaelos invited me to the headquarters of the Coptic Church in Stevenage to discuss matters with him there, and he subsequently kindly ensured that here in the Palace I was able to meet senior representatives of Christian faiths from Syria, who very bravely travelled to this country to give me information. We will continue to do that.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, in 2015 the United Kingdom gave refuge to 322 Iraqis, which includes those who applied for asylum here and those who entered under the UN Gateway and Mandate schemes. The 20,000 allocation of the vulnerable persons resettlement scheme is of course open only to Syrian passport holders, so Yazidis are ineligible to claim purely because they hold the wrong passport. Please could the Minister raise urgently with her colleagues in the Home Office the need for a modest extension of the scheme so that Iraq’s persecuted religious minorities, who are equally affected by the actions of IS, can be offered some form of refuge here?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend makes a very humanitarian point, and I agree that it is worth taking up. The Home Office’s Gateway, Mandate and children at risk resettlement schemes are not nationality-specific, so they could indeed cover Yazidis. With regard to internally displaced persons, which the majority of Yazidis are, it is a fact that as a matter of international law those seeking international protection have to be first outside their country of origin. We will continue to look at how best we can deliver security to those who have been displaced by Daesh, but security really means defeating Daesh; that is what it is all about.

[Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (LD)]

My Lords, it is mercifully unlikely that this particularly unsavoury episode actually took place. None the less, the Yazidi Spiritual Council reminded me yesterday that, as the Minister knows, the Yazidi faith is now the second largest in Iraq. It is a distant cousin of Christianity and extremely ancient. In order to try to stop the Yazidis being totally wiped out—this is the 72nd episode in a millennium and a half—extraordinary action must be taken, and it cannot just be overseas aid. Would the Minister consider putting together a small group of Ministers from other departments—I would gladly offer to help—to set up a religious tolerance programme internationally and in the United Kingdom, led by Britain? We have a uniquely tolerant attitude towards different faiths. If the Yazidis are to survive at all, we have to make a unique effort.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. I can say that we as a Government hope to play our own small part in doing something towards that in the autumn. On 19 and 20 October we are going to hold a conference for all faiths on freedom of religion and belief, and we are going to be examining the very points that she put forward.

Commonwealth Countries and Overseas Territories: European Union

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consultations they have held with the Overseas Territories and other Commonwealth countries over the United Kingdom’s future relations with the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, Ministers and officials meet regularly with the overseas territories and Commonwealth countries to discuss a wide range of issues, including issues raised by the UK’s renegotiation of its EU membership.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Falklands representative in the United Kingdom said that leaving the European Union would fuel Argentinian aggression towards us. The Chief Minister of Gibraltar has said that a vote to leave the EU would be a dire threat to Gibraltar. There are similar expressions of support for our membership from the Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada, India and New Zealand. Given this, why have the Government not trumpeted this clear and apparently unambiguous view by Commonwealth countries, but allowed Mr Farage, for example, to get away with claiming that he is a Commonwealth man?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Government have made it very clear that we value the announcements that have been made by the wide variety of representatives of Commonwealth Heads of Government and overseas territories to which the noble Lord has alluded. The Government have also noted that on each occasion when these people have put forward their views about how important it is for their countries that the UK remains within the EU, they have based their views on facts.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that whatever happens on 23 June, the EU and the Commonwealth are completely different structures and organisations from each other, and that the EU is basically a hierarchy of Governments whereas the Commonwealth is a network of peoples? Does she agree that probably the most sensible and clever thing that we in this nation should try to do is ride both horses?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

As is so often the case—perhaps every single time—my noble friend is absolutely right.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

If the Government were to have a meeting in London of representatives from the overseas territories, how would the delegates from St Helena get here?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I am always impressed by the ingenuity of those who wish to attend meetings. However, the noble Lord makes a very important point. It is important that the Government continue to look very carefully at securing communications with St Helena, partly because of the implications it has for the St Helenians who live on Ascension Island. He is absolutely right.

[Lord Luce (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former Governor of Gibraltar. Does the Minister agree that Gibraltar has gained enormously from the economic point of view, as has the Spanish neighbourhood, from unfettered access to the single market over the last few decades? Secondly, will she bear in mind that the current Spanish Foreign Minister, Margallo, has said that although he would like the United Kingdom to stay in the EU, in the event of Brexit he would plan to close the frontier with Gibraltar and revive the original proposals for joint sovereignty over Gibraltar which were overwhelmingly opposed by the people of Gibraltar? Can she say in what way the British Government will support Gibraltar in the event of Brexit?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord is right to draw attention to the concerns that Gibraltarians would justifiably have if the UK were to leave the European Union. On defending sovereignty, the UK has made a commitment to defend and support Gibraltar’s interests, including upholding British sovereignty. The men and women of the British Armed Forces have worked tirelessly to do this prior to the referendum and will continue to do so after it. However, the noble Lord rings a warning bell.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, do the Government recognise that if we were to restrict access to the other 450 million people in the European Union and open access to immigration for the 2.3 billion people in the Commonwealth—with the rapidly increasing population in west Africa and south Asia—immigration to this country would be likely to increase, rather than decrease?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, if the UK were to vote to leave the European Union that should not have a direct impact on the way in which applications from other countries outside the EU would be taken into account. Our current controls would continue to apply.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, is it not patently clear that, from the point of view of trade and of people coming over here to work, it is in the interests of Commonwealth countries to have direct access to the senior member of the Commonwealth as part of the European Union? It is in the interests of the Commonwealth itself that we remain part of the European Union.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that is indeed the point which has been made by the leaders of all the Commonwealth countries.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, when my noble friend answers questions from the House, does she do so in the name of the whole of the Government, or only that faction which wishes to remain in the EU?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as is constitutionally correct, and has been agreed by the Prime Minister at a Cabinet meeting—which I attended—when I speak from the Dispatch Box I speak for the whole Government.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I have worked with and represented workers in Gibraltar for a considerable time and experienced a closed border for nearly as many years. Is the Minister prepared to invite the Chief Minister of Gibraltar to this country to explain the serious consequences of leaving the EU, both—as the noble Lord said—for the workers and for its sovereignty?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, to be very quick, I can say that we have already done that. On 11 May, the Chief Minister of Gibraltar made a joint statement with the Foreign Secretary in which they agreed that,

“remaining in a reformed European Union would ensure both Gibraltar and the UK were stronger, safer and better off. It would give Gibraltar and Gibraltarians the best possible chance to continue building their remarkable success story”.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, given the EU’s uselessness at signing free trade agreements on our behalf, would not one obvious advantage of Brexit be that, as the world’s fifth-largest economy, we could sign our own free trade deals with the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth and the markets of the future? How many more jobs would that create for us and for them?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

First, my Lords, if it were a decision to leave the European Union, there would be a period of considerable uncertainty while we tried to negotiate deals, because the people with whom we wished to negotiate would justifiably point to the fact that we had not sorted out our own post-exit relationship with the European Union. We would not be a safe bet. With regard to what the EU has done, it has negotiated trade deals with more than 80% of the Commonwealth. We benefit from that.

Turkey

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 13th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharkey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the prospects for civil liberties and democratic governance in Turkey.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, Turkey is a democracy with multi-party elections whose Government have been democratically elected. In some areas, progress has been made on fundamental freedoms in recent years but, as the European Commission has highlighted, there has also been significant backsliding. As a friend and ally, we strongly encourage Turkey to continue work towards the full protection of all civil liberties, and will continue to do so.

[Lord Sharkey (LD)]

Turkey is a much-valued member of NATO and a much-valued ally of this country. It is vital to any solution to the crisis in the eastern Mediterranean. Will the Minister join me in condemning as shameless and irresponsible lies Vote Leave’s assertion that Turkey is joining the EU, and that the EU is about to be flooded with Turkish criminals? Is not the best way of engaging Turkey on civil rights and democratic governance precisely through the EU membership negotiations?

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[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I certainly support the noble Lord in his wish to put the record straight, which he has done. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister made it clear yesterday that although we continue to support Turkey’s accession process, at its current rate of knots it is not going to achieve accession until the year 3000—and along the way every single other member of the European Union, which includes us at the moment, has the right of veto.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, can representations be made about the increasing authoritarianism we see in Ankara these days, in particular the threats to the HDP which arise from the recent lifting of parliamentary immunity? Can the Minister also confirm that things are not helped when it seems that confidential telegrams from our embassy in Ankara are leaked to the press? Will the Government review the level of security governing the telegrams going to and from Ankara?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to the issue of lifting parliamentary immunity for MPs. I understand that President Erdogan signed that measure into law last week, and it is a matter of concern: after all, in any modern democracy a candidate for EU accession should be expected to undertake legal processes transparently and to fully respect the law. I hope they do so in these cases. Regarding leaks, in this particular case, of course, it was a selective leak. The fact is that if the rest of the material had been published—I do not encourage that because these are confidential matters—it would have shown that the Government’s policy is and will remain to maintain current visa requirements for all Turkish nationals wishing to visit the UK, regardless of what arrangements other member states in the Schengen area may make for Turkey. Diplomatic telegrams, by their very nature, are a way in which our experts overseas advise the Government here of what is happening in the Governments there—it is not about UK policy.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that many of us who still support Turkish accession believe that the policies of the present Government in Turkey—particularly on press freedom, the treatment of their critics and the immunity of opposition Members of Parliament—have set the process back a long way and that that setback makes complete nonsense of this idea that Turkey might join in 2020?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. It is a matter of concern when one sees that Turkey is 151st out of 180 in the World Press Freedom Index. That is not the sign of a country that is serious about wanting accession.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, following on from the last two questions, clearly, big decisions are being taken about Turkey’s relationship with the European Union, especially on the granting of visas. Are the British Government making representations to other member states saying that the granting of visas should not happen until things such as the lifting of immunity have been properly considered? It is outrageous that elected Members of Parliament are being hounded out of Parliament.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we certainly make representations to Turkey on the importance of maintaining human rights, and point out that any attack on human rights sets back its progress towards any hope of access to the European Union, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, set out a moment ago.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend acknowledge the plight of many Turkish citizens who will find that the requirements of our conventions of human rights conflict in many ways with their ideal of how their society should be constructed and operated?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is important that any state that wishes to be a member of the European Union abides by generally accepted norms of human rights. That is something I fight for not only as a Minister but as a human being.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I have not met a single Turk who believes that they are going to be joining the EU in 2020—I do not think anyone in Turkey believes that. However, the progressives who want reform want the EU to support the accession process, in order that Turkey should reform. The Minister will be aware that only one chapter out of 36 has been completed since 1987. In 1979, on her second day as Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher was told in a memorandum:

“If Turkey abandons her Western orientation, a number of strongly adverse military consequences would follow for the West”.

Is that still the case?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we certainly view the progress that Turkey can make if it opens chapters and successfully closes them as important for its progress not only towards becoming a member of the European Union, but as a stable state on the eastern edge of the European Union. Turkey is in a significant security position; it is a valued member of NATO and has the second-largest armed forces in NATO. The process of aiming towards European Union accession encourages democratic government and stability.

Syria: Air Drops

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will repeat a Statement made in the House of Commons earlier today by my right honourable friend David Lidington.

“The Government’s objective remains a political settlement which allows Syria to become a stable, peaceful state with an inclusive Government with whom we can work to tackle Daesh and other extremists. Frankly, it is only when this happens that we will see stability return to the region and the flow of people fleeing Syria and seeking refuge in Europe stop.

To achieve that goal, we need to get political negotiations between the Syrian parties back on track. The International Syria Support Group has made it clear that, in order to create the best environment for talks to succeed, there needs to be both a comprehensive cessation of hostilities, leading to a full ceasefire, and sustained, unfettered access for humanitarian aid.

Talks have now paused because progress on both those tracks has been insufficient. That is why we are pressing hard for an end to the current violations of the cessation of hostilities, the majority of which are down to the Assad regime. It is also why we need to see an improvement in humanitarian access to besieged and hard-to-reach areas inside Syria.

Both those points were agreed by all members of the International Syria Support Group in Munich in February this year. However, in the light of the continuing dire humanitarian picture, at the most recent ISSG meeting in Vienna on 17 May the Foreign Secretary proposed humanitarian air drops by the UN World Food Programme to besieged areas in Syria if access could not be achieved by road by the beginning of June. That deadline has now of course passed. We welcome the arrival of some limited aid in Darayya and Muadhamiya over the last few days, and we note that the Syrian Government have agreed in principle to allow land access by the UN to the majority of areas requested for the month of June. Such progress that we have seen is undoubtedly the result of international pressure, including the possibility of air drops.

We believe it is now crucial that the ISSG holds the Assad regime to account for the delivery of those commitments. UK officials are meeting their ISSG counterparts and UN officials in Geneva today to continue that work, and the UN is pressing the Assad regime to allow air drops if access by road is not permitted.

We remain clear that air drops are a last resort. Land access is more effective, more efficient and safer both for those needing the aid and for those delivering it. The UN has plans in place to begin air drops if they are needed, but it is clear that, in a complex and dangerous environment like Syria, this will not be straightforward.

We will continue to support the UN in its efforts, but if the regime is not willing to allow sufficient land access or air drops to those in such desperate need, the ISSG must consider very carefully what further steps might be taken to deliver the aid that is so desperately needed”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for repeating the response to this morning’s Urgent Question. I am sure we all agree that the most important thing is to focus our attention on the plight of those 582,000 people—men, women and children—who have been denied access, some since 2012. The conditions in those areas must be absolutely appalling and dreadful—it is difficult to imagine—and it is important that we keep highlighting that.

The noble Baroness said—and I heard the Minister in the other place, the right honourable David Lidington, say—that this afternoon British officials will meet their ISSG counterparts to consider the response of the Assad regime to the UN request for access. There is no doubt that the best outcome is agreed land access. That is the most effective way to get support in there. But what will happen if the Syrian Government refuse permission or impose further unnecessary delays? Will we be able to persuade others that air drops are appropriate as a last resort? And what timeframe are we considering? As each day and each week go past, the conditions in these areas will become intolerable.

I heard the right honourable David Lidington say that Russia and Iran have the power to influence the situation. Apart from the discussions in the ISSG, what efforts are the Government making to put pressure on Russia and Iran to use that influence more appropriately? What can we do about that?

There is no doubt that political progress towards a settlement is made a great deal more difficult while Assad deliberately uses the denial of humanitarian aid as a political and military weapon. I know that the noble Baroness shares my view and I hope she will confirm that there will be no hiding place for individuals who flagrantly breach international humanitarian law.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I shall respond to that last point first. The noble Lord is right: I join him in saying that there should be no impunity for those who breach international humanitarian law. However, it is a question of how and when one deals with that. He knows that this Government have put their resources where their mouth is and have committed money to enabling very brave people to gather, across Syria, information which we hope can be used in future judicial proceedings to hold to account those guilty of these atrocities.

It is important that we take stock of the United Nations request for land access to the four areas to which the Assad regime has so far refused the UN access. Once we see the result of that, we will know more about the timetable and about what happens next, but clearly, as land access is more secure, particularly for those receiving the aid as well as for those delivering it, that would be the best outcome. We have made it clear that the UN would then have to consider the application to Assad to deliver air drops. How it would do that and the viability of those air drops would be up to the UN to determine. Of course, we have to take into account that both Assad and the Russian Government have air defences in place in Syria, so if they were not to consent, we would enter a very dangerous process.

Therefore, the noble Lord is right to ask about the influence of Russia and Iran. They are both members of the ISSG, and Russia has played a leading part in agreeing to the cessation of hostilities and to humanitarian aid being delivered. Via our work through the ISSG and other organisations such as the UN and the Human Rights Council, we continue to impress on Russia the importance of using its influence to persuade the Assad regime to do what the whole world sees as the only right thing—to allow aid to be delivered to the areas that have been starved and bombed as a political weapon. That is a disgrace.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the importance of the ISSG holding the Assad Government to account. However, she mentioned that Russia is also part of that. How do Her Majesty’s Government envisage that we can hold the Assad regime to account? In the shorter term, how can we deliver humanitarian aid if Russia and the regime are not willing to allow drops?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I outlined a moment ago, the decision-making process has to depend upon the discussions being carried on today, not just with the ISSG but with the UN. It is a matter of what is the safest and most effective way of delivering aid. However, the Assad regime should be under no illusions and neither should Russia. The allies who have united against Daesh are united against the attempt to subvert democracy in Syria as a whole. Therefore, it is important that Assad takes note of the determination of countries that are united in the ISSG, which includes the UK, to deliver humanitarian aid. I pay tribute to the organisations that stand ready to do that.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, is there any evidence that Russia will be co-operative in the United Nations Security Council and not block an initiative? Is there any evidence that Russia is acting positively in respect of pressure on the Assad regime?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord raised a very good point and I am not able to give him a very positive answer—I wish that I could. The signs so far from Russia are that it promised to step down some of its military support for the Assad regime, for example, and then did not. There was much brouhaha about President Putin’s announcement over a withdrawal but the Russian drawdown of military equipment in Syria, I am advised, has been limited to some fixed-wing aircraft and personnel. The number of attack helicopters able to provide closer combat support to regime troops has increased. If that is the message that Russia is giving to the Assad regime, it is not a message that encourages Assad to do what is right, which is to allow humanitarian aid to all.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has been characteristically measured in introducing this subject and in responding to questions. Does she agree that the use of air drops would essentially be a decision borne out of desperation? Must we not also consider the risks involved? First, there is a risk that the material to be delivered could fall into the wrong hands. Secondly, there may be physical risks to the citizens to whom aid is to be delivered if a drop goes awry. Thirdly—the noble Baroness hinted at this a moment ago—this is potentially a very hostile air environment and there could be risks both to aircraft and aircrew. In all the circumstances, may we take it that Her Majesty’s Government’s attitude at the Security Council will take full account of these risks and will accede to the notion of air drops only if they believe that there is no other possible viable alternative?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I agree entirely with the way in which the noble Lord has outlined the risks involved in the delivery of humanitarian aid which is so desperately needed. There are areas, for example, in the middle of Damascus that have been besieged and starved for three years. Getting access there, if Assad agreed to it, is a simple matter—he is standing in the way—but the risks internationally are great. Assad is computing those risks too. What we say to him is: the world will not stand idly by and allow you to continue bombing, starving and using chemical weapons against your people. We are six years into the conflict, and it must stop.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister not recognise that it may be necessary to move matters rather more forcefully at the United Nations and that a resolution authorising air drops and requiring the Assad regime to permit those air drops would compel the Russians to take a position on that, which they can probably avoid doing so long as merely diplomatic channels are being used? If they veto it, they will be vetoing the provision of supplies to starving people, and that will have a cost to them. If they do not veto it, they are supporting the use of air drops, and that has implications for their own military involvement. Would it not be better, fairly soon, to move matters in a more purposeful way in the Security Council?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord, with his experience of being our representative in the United Nations in New York, has hit on one of the options that are available. Meetings are going ahead today, and I hope that advances can be made through the ISSG and that Russia will use its undoubted influence over the Assad regime to achieve the right objective. However, clearly all countries will be considering the variety of options available.

EU: UK Settlement

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Wednesday 8th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the international law decision contains legally binding and irreversible provisions specifying how certain articles in EU treaties should be interpreted. That interpretation will apply to all EU institutions, including the European Parliament. The Court of Justice confirmed that it is required to take such decisions into account when interpreting the treaties. The decision includes a commitment that the member states will, at the next opportunity, amend the treaties to address key UK concerns.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer but she appears to forget the 1992 European Council in Edinburgh, which decided that national citizenship was superior to the new EU citizenship that had just been agreed at Maastricht. However, the Court of Justice overturned that, having merely taken it into account. How is the Prime Minister’s deal anything approaching the root-and-branch reform of the EU that he promised in his Bloomberg speech? If the Minister cannot say, is it honest of the Government to pretend that this deal justifies our staying in a wholly unreformed and clearly failing European Union? I ask the noble Baroness yet again: why do the Government want us to stay on the “Titanic”?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister successfully renegotiated a deal that is better for the UK than any before and means that we are stronger, better off, and safer within the European Union. He made sure that the agreement provided that we are protected by international law which means that this will be put into effect. That means we are in a better position than ever before. It is right that when those who go to vote make their minds up they bear all that in mind. I do not tell them how to vote. I certainly hope they will consider the facts carefully before they do so.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

Can my noble friend confirm that there are no circumstances similar to the one that the noble Lord raised, in which the European Court of Justice has overturned a decision taken by the European Council? Can she further confirm that in the package negotiated by the Prime Minister is something called the red card system, which substantially enhances the roles of national Parliaments in the whole legislative procedure of the European Union?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My noble friend is absolutely right in his surmise.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top]

Will the noble Baroness confirm that if the British people decide to leave the European Union none of the provisions agreed on 19 February will prevail and, until our membership is finished after the negotiations over our exit route, none of the aspects in the deal will apply?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I can confirm that. It has been made clear that the agreements reached by my right honourable friend take effect only if there is a vote to remain in the European Union in just a couple of weeks and one day. If the country decides that it prefers that the UK should leave the European Union, one then invokes Article 50 and we go through that process.

[Baroness Ludford]

Does the Minister agree that the February decision—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Ludford]

Does the Minister agree that the February decision of the heads of state and government—not of the European Council—and indeed our future in the EU, has a degree of clarity and certainty which shines out, compared with the sketchy and shifting scenarios that we hear from the Brexiteers, whose model is based variously on Norway, Canada or Albania, depending on the speaker, the day or the hour?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to point to the fact that the deal is indeed in international law and therefore its terms are certain, and that, at the moment, those who wish to reject that deal have not set out the alternatives.

[Lord Spicer]

My Lords, in addition to the legal point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, is there not a question of logic? Is it really possible to contemplate a genuine single market with one country having its own currency? If we stay in the European Union, is it not the case that ultimately we will be forced into the single currency?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, no, part of the agreement is that there is a protection for the United Kingdom to retain a veto to remain outside the eurozone.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

Is it not the case that so long as we remain in the European Union we will continue to have a veto on any potential applications to join, including if Turkey were to make such an application, because enlargement is a matter for unanimity under the treaty? Is it not also the case that, for exactly the same reason, we would continue to have a veto on any increase in the EU budget? Is it not therefore the case that in saying precisely the opposite to those two things over the last few days the Brexit campaign has once again—sad as it is to have to use the word—told lies to the British public?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I do not say that those who present an inaccurate description are telling falsehoods. I follow my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in saying that perhaps they simply do not have quite as much direct experience of the EU as he has had as Prime Minister. Unusual though it may be for me to agree so wholeheartedly with the noble Lord, Lord Davies, I have to say that he is right.

EU Foreign and Security Strategy (EUC Report)

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, it gives me great pleasure to close this debate on the report Europe in the World: Towards a More Effective EU Foreign and Security Strategy. Like others today, I record my appreciation for the EU sub-committee’s comprehensive work under the leadership of its chairman, my noble friend Lord Tugendhat. This report is a welcome and valuable contribution to the debate on the future of EU foreign and security policy.

I shall first set out what the Government think about the EU strategy review before commenting on some of the key conclusions of the committee’s report. The Government welcomed the proposal put forward at the European Council in June last year to review the 2003 European security strategy because the world has moved on since then. The foreign policy challenges in the near neighbourhood pose even greater threats to the EU’s security and prosperity than was the case just 10 years ago.

Given these serious threats, we believe that a properly coherent approach to EU external action has never been more important. That seemed to be a theme that ran through so many speeches today. The EU’s collective action is relevant to many of the UK’s foreign policy objectives, and as a large member state with global interests and membership of many key international organisations and groupings, the UK is in a strong position to influence EU common action. It was not too surprising that some noble Lords expressed some disappointment about the number of UK citizens working in the EU institutions and the fact that perhaps that number is falling. I refer to comments made by my noble friend Lord Balfe, the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, and the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley. In answer to their questions I can say that in 2013 the Government set up an EU staffing unit with the express purpose of increasing the number of British nationals who work in the EU institutions. This has resulted in an increase in UK-seconded national experts being sent to work in the EU.

The UK is well represented among the member states that send staff to work in the European External Action Service. However, we very much agree with what noble Lords have said today. More remains to be done, particularly in raising the success rate of UK candidates at the EU entry competition for permanent staff—the concours. I was grateful to the clerks of the House, who during the course of the debate assisted me by providing the following information: “The House of Lords Committee Office currently has one seconded national expert working for the European Parliament; another member of the Committee Office staff has just been successful in securing a seconded national expert post”. Therefore, that is progress made, but clearly more progress has to be made.

The strategy review is also timely, because such an approach could usefully complement the United Kingdom’s recent strategic defence and security review. The paper entitled The European Union in a Changing Global Environment, published by High Representative Mogherini last June, set the context for a revised Europe Global Strategy and described the challenges that EU foreign policy needs to address. Naturally, we were pleased that the high representative recognised the need to consult member states throughout this process. We have been working closely with the strategy team in Brussels to feed in our views.

An important comparative advantage for the EU in foreign policy, set out a moment ago by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, is the EU’s ability to combine with its diplomatic and security tools a wide range of policy instruments: political, economic, development, and humanitarian—he is right. With tools ranging from military missions to development aid, the EU can flex its approach as situations evolve. But it is vital that these tools work together properly. We think the EU needs to improve further its ability to combine its foreign policy instruments—and its institutions—more effectively. The strategy could help to deliver those improvements. We believe that the strategy review should focus on making EU external policy more coherent, flexible and accountable. We see it as an opportunity to achieve improvements across the full range of the EU’s external tools. For example, the contribution of development assistance to building stability and peace should be better reflected.

There could be better co-ordination between Council activity and Commission-administered programmes to ensure a better articulation of the respective roles and interventions. In particular, we encourage stronger links between the Council-led foreign policy work and the Commission-run trade and energy work, where interests and objectives can sometimes overlap. There could also be stronger links between internal and external security. We agree with the report that:

“Terrorism affects both the internal and the external security of the Union”.

Several noble Lords referred to that matter. A joined-up approach is essential to counter and tackle the threats we face. This should be delivered through strengthened partnerships and complementarity with other international actors, including of course NATO, the UN and the OSCE, which the report alludes to; I will answer one or two points made by noble Lords on that in a moment. Finally, we also believe that the EU could do more in the field of strategic communications, and we would like to see this reflected in the strategy.

The Government agree with many of the specific conclusions of the EU Committee report, as my right honourable friend the Minister for Europe made clear in his formal written response. We absolutely agree that member states drive the whole issue of EU foreign policy—it is a national competence. We support the committee’s call for the EU to use the strategy review as an opportunity to set rigorous priorities and improve the execution of its foreign policy decisions.

We also agree that the new strategy should aim to achieve better co-operation between the EU and NATO. We hope that this can further encourage member states to move closer to the target of 2% of GDP dedicated to defence spending. NATO has remained the bedrock of our national defence and that of the Euro-Atlantic area for almost 70 years.

The Government remain convinced that the EU does not have a role in territorial defence, because doing so would simply duplicate what NATO already does and would place further strain on finite resources across Europe. We therefore agree that it is important to foster closer co-operation and co-ordination between the EU and NATO. I particularly mark the concerns expressed by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, and other noble Lords on these matters.

I was asked in particular by the noble Earl about reports of shrinking EU-NATO relations. In 2015 we resolved to frame a national security strategy to foster closer co-ordination between the EU and NATO. This will include areas such as cyber and countering hybrid threats, as well as work to develop security capacity in other states. We will form across Whitehall a joint Euro-Atlantic security policy unit to bring together diplomatic and defence expertise on this. Noble Lords were right to express their concerns.

We believe that the strategy could also usefully promote the co-ordination of missions undertaken under the common security and defence policy and the work of other actors so that EU efforts support a coherent international effort from the outset. The Government believe, for example, that the European Union could play a helpful role in bolstering the efficiency and impact of UN engagement.

Several noble Lords mentioned Turkey and the issue of enlargement. It is certainly a fact that Turkey has strong hopes of membership of the EU. The Government support Turkey’s EU accession process, which remains the most effective mechanism for continuing reform in that country. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others were right to point out that, with progress, one also has to offer hope to people as they work through a difficult process of opening and closing chapters. But it is a matter of fact that achieving the reforms that are necessary for Turkey to join the EU will be a lengthy process—we cannot get round that. The Prime Minister has told the House of Commons that we do not believe Turkish membership will be on the cards for many years. It is a matter of recognising the practical details of the progress that it needs to make, particularly in human rights and economic conversions.

The UK strongly welcomes the plan agreed between the EU and Turkey to end irregular migration from Turkey to the EU. For the first time, we have a plan that breaks the business model of the people smugglers by breaking the link between getting in a boat and getting settlement in Europe.

I turn briefly to the Review of the European Neighbourhood Policy, to which several noble Lords referred. It was published in November last year. It was a good outcome for the UK. It maintained the idea of a single overarching policy but emphasised differentiation, stability, partnership and ownership. In particular, we welcome the greater flexibility that it offers to enable co-operation on shared interests with those partners not looking to conclude association agreements. The EU remains united in its commitment to the interests of our eastern partners.

Many noble Lords—my noble friends Lord Horam and Lord Balfe, the noble Lords, Lord Anderson, Lord Judd and Lord Soley, and the noble Earl, Lord Oxford and Asquith, to take just a few—referred to Russian foreign policy. Concern about the direction of Russian foreign policy has generated useful debate in this House, not just today but on previous occasions when we have had the chance to go into more detail. However, the Government do not agree with the committee’s assertion that the US is leading the West’s relations with Russia. This is an oversimplification, given that it is clear that the EU has been at the very forefront of the response to Russian actions in Ukraine.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, asked me to comment on the Normandy format: it works, and it is not something that works by excluding the UK. The flexibility of being able to feed in our influence and technical expertise made the system work. It also means that we have as much interest in ensuring that the agreements of Minsk I and II are adhered to before there are any reductions in sanctions. We were warned by other Peers to be careful about the removal of sanctions because Russia is very adept at exploiting differences in views across the EU. We have taken a unified approach and shown Russia that its illegal actions in the way it has behaved in Ukraine will not be tolerated, including by taking the step of sanctioning a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council.

Several noble Lords referred to the fact that it is important to think about the Russian Government and not lump in the Russian people with them. I appreciate that. Russia’s actions in Ukraine, Syria and elsewhere clearly expose the gulf between the values and interests of the Russian Government and those of the EU. That means that Russia will not, for the foreseeable future, be a potential strategic partner for the EU. However, it may not be business as usual, but it has to be business. There is dialogue at the United Nations and the Human Rights Council.

The Government agree with the committee that fragile states in the southern neighbourhood should be addressed in the strategy. The strategic challenges posed by many countries in north Africa require a step change in the EU response, and the EU must act to address the underlying causes, as well as the symptoms, fuelling migration, radicalisation and extremism. We agree that reform in the political, judicial and security sectors in these countries will be vital.

Turning to the committee’s conclusions about north Africa, the Government agree that the EU can play a useful role in Tunisia and Libya in both short-term and long-term security sector reform work. With the establishment of a Government of National Accord in Libya, the possibility for a greater EU role exists. We continue our discussions with other member states and the External Action Service.

The Government agree with the committee that the EU has a direct interest in resolving the Syrian conflict, which is now in its sixth year. The International Syria Support Group has played a vital role in restarting political negotiations between the Syrian parties, with the aim of fully implementing the cessation of hostilities, ensuring all required humanitarian access is granted, and strongly supporting the efforts of de Mistura, the United Nations special envoy, to bring about a political transition in line with UN Security Council Resolution 2254. It was a privilege to be able to make that point to him when I met him over the Easter Recess. The EU, along with the UK, France, Germany and Italy, has provided support within the ISSG process to help the UN special envoy as he aims to reconvene talks in Geneva. The UN has a mandate to facilitate talks between the Syrian parties but the solution must be Syrian-led. At the Supporting Syria and the Region conference in London earlier this year, significant support was pledged by the international community for supporting Syria after the conflict. We should not forget the pledge of €2.39 billion made by the European Union Commission.

Finally, turning to the EU’s institutional arrangements, the Government agree that ad hoc groups can be a useful format for rapid, decisive and ambitious action by member states, which can then become the wider EU position. Noble Lords referred to our divergence from the view of the committee on the role of the high representative. There is no doubt about the value of her role and that of her predecessor, and the inclusion of the high representative in ad hoc groups can certainly help gain the widest possible support among member states, but we do not believe that it is essential in every single case; it is not a prerequisite. Member states should remain free to form and work in ad hoc groups without the high representative should circumstances so require, depending on the view of the European Council. Flexibility is too valuable to lose.

The role of the External Action Service should continue to evolve. The Government agree that the strategy should encourage the External Action Service to draw together the EU’s security, political and development activities for preventing and resolving conflict. It should encourage an External Action Service that works in concert with the other EU institutions, particularly the Commission, and is capable of intervening at any stage of the conflict cycle, bringing together the full range of EU instruments.

I conclude by once again welcoming the report. As I have shown, the Government agree with many of its conclusions. The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, reminded the House that one of the great strengths of the External Action Service is its ability to combine its many tools across a wide range of policy areas, tackling political, economic, development, and humanitarian challenges, and improving our security and prosperity as it does so. The noble Lord reminded us that it is a good idea to be visionary, not meek or weak—I like that. That is why this review is so important, and it is why we have worked closely with the team conducting it. We will continue to work hard to ensure that the new strategy reflects our views. We shall not be meek or weak.

Burma

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 6th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the current situation in Burma, in particular with regard to the reported continuing military offensives and violations of human rights of the Shan, Kachin and Rohingya people by the Burmese army.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, we are concerned about the Tatmadaw’s recent use of force in Kachin and Shan, which has displaced hundreds of civilians. We continue to provide support to the peace process, contributing £6.7 million in 2016-17. Aung San Suu Kyi has announced that she will hold a peace conference, which we support. We call on the Tatmadaw to work constructively with the civilian Government to achieve peace and address the desperate situation of the Rohingya people.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her sympathetic reply. I have recently returned from visiting partners in and from the Shan and Kachin states, where despite the existing ceasefire agreement the Burmese army continues to attack civilians with ground offensives and helicopter gunships, and to perpetrate extrajudicial killings, the torture of civilians, the use of civilians as human shields and forced porters, and the destruction of homes and food stores, making a mockery of the peace process. What pressures are Her Majesty’s Government applying to bring an end to the impunity which the Burmese army is being allowed by the Burmese Government to continue these atrocities against the Shan and Kachin people, as well as the well-documented persecution of the Rohingya people?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I pay tribute again to the courage of the noble Baroness for working in such difficult areas over the decades. I agree with her that these recent offensives are inconsistent with the spirit of last year’s nationwide ceasefire agreement and that they risk undermining the national conciliation process that the new Government want to take forward. Aung San Suu Kyi has announced a Panglong 2 conference to reinvigorate the process and we have made it clear to the Burmese military that it should participate constructively in this initiative by the civilian Government. We have done that by making representations to the Tatmadaw at a senior level last week, and I welcome government efforts in the past week to reach out to those ethnic groups that have not yet signed up to the peace process.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that recent changes have enabled people to apply in-country for visas to come to the United Kingdom. One of the problems for certain ethnic groups in Myanmar, particularly Rohingya Muslims, is their lack of identity documentation, which could inhibit their applying for such visas. Can my noble friend the Minister assure your Lordships’ House that whether someone is Buddhist, Muslim or Christian in Myanmar, they can apply for a UK visa on objective criteria?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that the UK Government apply objective criteria that do not discriminate against anyone on the grounds of their religion or of no belief. My noble friend has put her finger right on the problem, which is that, as we have discussed previously in this House, the Rohingya people do not have valid travel documents. To apply for a visa, a valid travel document must be presented. I have already referred to the fact that the Government are reaching out to areas where there are difficulties. They have been in power only since April, but in the past week the new NLD-led Government have announced that they will start a fresh citizenship verification process in Rakhine state. However, I appreciate that the details of the process are not yet clear.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Lab)]

My Lords, has the Minister seen the recent evidence showing that the Burmese army, which has been given free training by the United Kingdom, continues to violate international law? Ethnic women have been raped, civilians shot and villages bombed. How much more suffering must be endured in Burma before the United Kingdom refuses to train an army that commits such atrocities?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, we are training the army so that its members know that they should not carry out atrocities. I feel as strongly as the noble Baroness that when members of armed forces carry out atrocities against civilians, not only are they in breach of humanitarian and international law, they are acting in an inhumane way. We are training the Tatmadaw to adhere to human rights norms. I appreciate that in certain circumstances those norms are breached, but its members are taking part and they are listening. We have the patience to carry on with that process.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, can the Government tell us how much co-operation we are getting from Myanmar’s neighbours in our efforts to encourage this rather weak new Government, faced with a surge of right-wing Buddhist nationalism against them within Myanmar, to provide negotiations on these long-standing problems? I refer to Malaysia, for example, and China is a major actor. How far are they willing to co-operate with us on this?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, clearly it is important that there are discussions across the region, not only on this but on other aspects of confidence-building and stability-building across the area. Those discussions are going ahead. The ones of which I am aware take place in both the United Nations and the Human Rights Council. I hope they are always considered valuable, even if we do not get quick or easy results.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, what assessment has the Minister been able to make of the remarks of the young Kachin girl who spoke here just two weeks ago? She described systematic ethnic cleansing, the expropriation of land, particularly for mining purposes, and the massive opium trade being carried out in Kachin state, which has implications for western countries such as our own.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to point to there being those in Burma for whom continuing the conflict is of personal financial interest. Some of those, it is alleged, are within the military and have allegedly been part of government in the past. It is clear that the new civilian-led Government are doing what they can to address those problems. In Burma, as in other countries in the region, it seems that there are those for whom the profits from trading in other people’s misery are too great for them to do what is right.

[The Lord Bishop of Derby]

My Lords, is it true that DfID has decided prematurely to end funding for civil rights groups and civil society organisations that are working cross-border? Given the delicacy of the situation and the efforts to turn it around that have been referred to, should that decision, if it has been made, be reviewed so that we can play our part in helping those civil society organisations to make a full contribution?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, DfID has given £106 million towards aid generally in Burma this last year. Announcements for the forthcoming year have not yet been made but when they are, I will look into that matter.

EU: Turkish Membership

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Wednesday 25th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Green of Deddington]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their current policy regarding Turkey joining the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government see the EU accession process as the most effective means of encouraging reform, stability and democracy in Turkey. The Prime Minister has made it clear that the question of Turkey actually joining the EU is not remotely on the cards; indeed, he does not believe that it will happen for decades. Of course, every member state has a veto at every stage of the process.

[Lord Green of Deddington (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response. Is she aware of the many similarities between the economic conditions in Turkey today and those that existed in eastern Europe in 2004—countries from which we have since received more than 1 million migrants? The Minister mentioned the right to veto Turkish membership. Would the Government use their veto if faced with the prospect of massive flows of migration from Turkey?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, regarding use of the veto, the Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that he would be prepared to block any future accession until reforms of transitional controls on freedom of movement have been achieved. The success of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in his negotiation earlier this year means that our controls on free movement cannot be lifted until the economies of an accession country have converged much more closely with existing member states’. If we were to allow those controls to be lifted, we could seek to re-impose them if there were either a serious disturbance in our labour market, or adverse social or public policy impacts in the UK as a result of migration from this new member state. These are new powers that we did not have on the previous accession from the Balkans.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister pass a copy of her reply to her hapless government colleague Ms Mordaunt? Does she recall that Chancellor Merkel used to talk of the proud nation of Turkey having a “privileged position” with the European Union? Is that now not a far more realistic position than continuing with the fiction that Turkey will one day be a member of the European Union, given, for example, that there is a need for referenda in Austria and France, and that there is no prospect, for as far ahead as we can plan, of Turkey having full membership?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, I happened to speak to my honourable friend Penny Mordaunt about an hour ago, and I reassured her of my admiration for her in all the work she does as Minister for the Armed Forces. Indeed, I am just about to issue a joint op-ed with her regarding the ceremony at the Cenotaph earlier today. I was disappointed that she was perhaps misinformed by one of the campaign groups about the powers of the United Kingdom. It is clear that, when Turkey is on the path to EU accession, it will face the fact that the UK, as all other member states, possesses a veto against its accession if it cannot achieve the standards needed to be a member of the EU.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I point out that successive Governments of all political colours have supported Turkey’s application. Part of the accession negotiations could obviously cover a derogation on free movement that could put it off for a number of years. I will be in Ankara next week, at the Turkish Parliament. Can I assure them that Her Majesty’s Government’s position remains the same?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The position remains exactly as I outlined in my Answer: we see the EU accession process as the most effective way to encourage reform, stability and democracy in Turkey. Turkey has to meet the EU norms—the rule of law, fundamental freedoms and competition rules—to be effective.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, is it not the truth that the Brexiteers making an issue of the very distant prospect of Turkish accession is an example of their having lost the plot? They have lost the argument on the economy, are unable to portray a credible alternative to the EU—sorry, I forgot Mr Gove’s Albanian model—are fighting among themselves like rats in a sack, and are scapegoating and insulting all and sundry with abandon, including Turks. Should they not concentrate on trying to find some integrity for their campaign?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the Government’s view is that we should put to the people of this country the positive and correct information about the benefits but also responsibilities of being a member of the EU. We believe that we are stronger, safer and better off in the EU. We have issued information about that. It is up to others how they interpret it—or, indeed, misinterpret it.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, for a country to be a valid candidate for entry into the European Union, is it not incumbent on it to show that it is an adherent to the European Convention on Human Rights of 1950? Do Her Majesty’s Government take the view that Turkey today genuinely and honestly conforms to such a rule?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, our view is indeed that Turkey must adhere to the common norms on human rights. The Copenhagen criteria underwrite that requirement, as the noble Lord will be more aware than most. It is a fact that Turkey has a long way to go before it meets the necessary standards of human rights and can achieve accession. The opportunity to work towards EU accession is, I hope, the lever that will persuade the country to reform its views on human rights.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Turkey is of course also a member of NATO. Building security in Europe is at the front line of issues of security. Clearly, as the Minister indicated, the accession process can address the issues of democracy and accountability and, not least, the problems we have with Cyprus. Can the noble Baroness assure us that she will continue that process and not give in to the scare tactics that have been used disgracefully by other members of her Government?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I wholeheartedly agree that that process should continue. I give that undertaking.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that, while there are many substantial reasons against the accession of Turkey to the European Union, perhaps the most important is that there is a real danger that it would greatly increase right-wing extremism within the Union? That would be profoundly destabilising for us all.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, as I already outlined, in our view, for Turkey to achieve entitlement to accession to the European Union, it has a very long path to tread to meet the norms of human rights, and in economic terms. As each of the 35 chapters may be opened and closed, every member state has the opportunity for a veto. Any concerns that my noble friend has should be allayed by the fact that the process is clear and careful. We have the opportunity to explain to Turkey that it must achieve high standards of human rights, including avoiding political extremism, before it achieves accession.

European Union: United Kingdom Membership

Baroness Anelay of St Johns Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ludford]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the reasons for the call by five previous Secretaries-General of NATO for the United Kingdom to remain a member of the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, national security is the first duty of any Government, and Europe helps us to make Britain safer. Leaving Europe is a threat to our economic and national security. NATO is the cornerstone of our security, but the EU is part of the West’s core security. Our NATO allies do not want us to leave the EU. Beyond NATO, there is no indication that any of our key partners want us to leave.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is it not arrogant of the Brexiteers to substitute their view for that of our NATO friends, whose view is that the EU is a key partner for NATO, that Brexit would undermine NATO and give succour to the West’s enemies and that, at a time of such global instability, it would be very troubling if Britain ended its membership of the EU? Is it not the truth that any supporter of NATO must be a supporter of remain?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, of course, all noble Lords are able to take their own view on these matters; I like to go for information about the real, the how and the now. It is the case that the EU complements NATO’s high-intensity military activities with important long-term stabilisation and development work. I saw that at first hand on two separate visits I made last summer: one to Kosovo, where NATO is in position; and the other to Bosnia and Herzegovina, where I had the opportunity to meet the general in charge of the EUFOR Althea force and see the work which the EU can do which NATO does not and cannot.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not accept that the real problem with any form of EU defence capability is that only three countries spend money on defence—Germany, France and the United Kingdom—and the Germans are pacifists?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, that is an interesting interpretation of NATO. It is certainly not one that I have seen coming out of the discussions in NATO, where there is support across the membership for ensuring that there is a strategic defence of western Europe. NATO has a proud and successful history.

[Lord Robertson of Port Ellen (Lab)]

As one of the signatories to the letter concerned, perhaps I may suggest that the reason why five former Secretaries-General of NATO have taken the unprecedented step of speaking out at this time is the genuine concern that Britain might leave the European Union. As the letter quite clearly says, that would weaken British influence and weaken NATO at the same time. Surely, the Minister will agree that, at a time when we face unprecedented threats and challenges in the world today, a weakened NATO would be very dangerous indeed.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord is right and he speaks from practical and detailed experience.

[Lord Flight (Con)]

My Lords, has the Minister seen the Brexit film, which stars a number of Members of this House? If not, I suggest that she might find it interesting to watch.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

I find lots of things interesting, my Lords.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, if we believe Her Majesty’s Treasury’s estimates of the short-term and long-term consequences of a vote to leave the European Union, which would leave the United Kingdom financially much worse off, would that not have negative ramifications in terms of our defence expenditure? The 2% commitment to NATO is excellent, but if we have a smaller economy, that means less money, fewer defence capabilities and a weakened, less secure United Kingdom.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Baroness is right.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

Will the Minister confirm that these distinguished Secretaries-General of NATO are joined in the roll call by virtually every international organisation that is relevant, and all of the international statesmen, including Commonwealth statesmen such as the Prime Minister of Australia? One would be hard-pressed indeed to find any international organisation or international leader, save perhaps for President Putin or Mr Trump, who would join the Brexiteers.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

Again, the noble Lord is right.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, people often forget that what has strengthened NATO has been the EU’s influence in ensuring that human rights, democracy and a growing economy are part of that NATO field. Of course, when NATO was established, Greece and Spain had dictatorships, and there have been dictatorships in other parts of Europe. Does the Minister agree that the EU complements and strengthens NATO rather than weakens it?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, indeed, the EU complements and strengthens NATO, rather than weakens it. The current holder of the position of NATO Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, said only last month:

“We also see the importance of the United Kingdom being so supportive both inside NATO and inside the European Union, promoting increased cooperation between NATO and the European Union”.

He made the point that,

“a more fragmented Europe is bad for our security and it’s bad for NATO”.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend not agree that the definition of a dictatorship is a country where people cannot sack the Government, make their own laws, or decide their own levels of taxation? Which is the democratic organisation in Brussels? Is it the one headed by Herr Juncker? We have had trouble with Junkers in this country before—I remember in my schooldays being bombed by them. Is it not true that this country is a democracy but the European Union is not, because we cannot sack people like Juncker?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, the European Union is united in the sense that it is 28 democratic countries. This Government are determined that the golden thread of good governance should run throughout not just the United Kingdom but the rest of the European Union.

[Lord Kinnock (Lab)]

My Lords, perhaps I may familiarise the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, and others with the fact that the 28 democracies which make up the European Union are all represented in the Council of Ministers and that they have rights, including rights of veto, in many vital areas. There is a directly elected European Parliament, which is the only directly elected international Parliament in the world, and it has effective powers that assist in the improvement of legislation. There is no government in Brussels other than the Government of Belgium—there is a civil service that does its best to serve in response to the requests and requirements of all the member states of the European Union.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

That is indeed an accurate description. I would simply add that it shows the importance of ensuring that those who are enfranchised within the United Kingdom vote for our MEPs. I always find it very disappointing to see the low turnout—so let us all work to increase it.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister comment on statements from the Brexit campaign in the past week that Turkey is about to enter the European Union, that 80 million Turks will come over here, and it will be mainly criminals who come? In fact, it is very unlikely that Turkey will join the European Union in the next five years. Could she also say something about the damage that the campaign is doing in respect of Turkey, a valued member of NATO, and in respect of community relations?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is a matter of fact that the Prime Minister has made it clear that he does not envisage Turkey being able for some decades to qualify by opening and closing all the chapters that are required to achieve membership of the European Union. Turkey has been trying to do so for some decades. I am on record in this House as pointing out that, until Turkey satisfies the requirements on human rights that must be met across the Union, particularly freedom of expression, it does not have a hope of joining. We want Turkey to change its attitude towards human rights, but, in the meantime, it is also a fact that, while we remain a member of the European Union, we have a veto on any application for membership.