Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Okay, I call Toby Perkins. Here’s a man who is ready to go!

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I am ready to go, and so is the Prime Minister—it is great to see him in Baku showing leadership. The recent Cali conference was a disappointment. Ultimately, nations were not able to reach agreement. Alongside the positive steps the UK Government are taking, what conversations are we having with international partners to recognise the necessity of an agreement that brings all western nations together in showing equal ambition?

[Kerry McCarthy]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. I know he was at Cali. There was some progress on such issues as digital sequence information, but more needs to be done. We are very seized of the need to join up action on the nature and climate crisis. When I head out to COP29 tomorrow, Members will hopefully hear more from us on our efforts to protect forests and on the support we are giving to countries at risk of deforestation. We are also looking at nature-based solutions to climate change. The nature Minister—the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry East (Mary Creagh)—will be out there as well, and we will have more to say, but I entirely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins) that we cannot deal with one crisis in isolation from the other.

Great British Energy Bill

Toby Perkins Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 5th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend anticipates my point about how we build the supply chains, and about the lessons we have learned from what state-owned companies in other countries have done to help catalyse a supply chain of jobs and to work with the private sector.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Ed Miliband]

I will give way one more time before making some more progress.

[Mr Perkins]

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend. We heard the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) suggest a few moments ago that things were going wonderfully under the Conservative Government, but does my right hon. Friend agree that the Climate Change Committee warned a few weeks ago that only a third of the emissions reductions that we need to achieve the 2030 target are currently backed by a credible plan? Is the reality not that we need a step change? Thank God we have a Labour Government to deliver it.

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and it is part of what this Government have done. In less than two months, we have overturned the onshore wind ban, consented large amounts of solar power and, on Tuesday, had the most successful renewables auction in British history.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Coutinho]

I am sorry, but I will make some progress.

Finally—this is really important—the Secretary of State pays lip service to nuclear, but we know that when Labour was last in power it did not start a single nuclear power plant in all its 14 years. All summer, there has been an eerie silence. On the capital raise for Sizewell C, which should be out by now—nothing. On the small modular reactor competition, which should be deciding its final projects now—nothing. We committed to a third large-scale nuclear power plant at Wylfa—again, nothing. We wrote to the Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, the hon. Member for Rutherglen, but once again he has refused to confirm any detail or, with regard to Wylfa, whether those plans are even in place. Can the Secretary of State say whether the creation of GB Energy is slowing down those projects and causing the timetable of these programmes, which will provide clean, cheap energy, to slip?

[Mr Perkins]

Will the right hon. Member give way?

[Claire Coutinho]

I will not; I will continue.

Once again, we simply have no answers. I find all this very strange, because at our last encounter in this House, the Secretary of State was keen to confess that he was a “super-nerd”. As someone who has been a lifelong mathlete, I am the first person to want to champion a fellow super-nerd, but when I meet super-nerds they normally like evidence, facts and numbers. Whenever we look at what the Secretary of State has set out, there are no numbers attached. He talks about decarbonising the grid by 2030, but he has not set out the full system costs of that. He promises profits and bill savings from GB Energy, but he cannot tell us by when or how much.

When it comes to the Bill and its 2030 target, it is clear that the Secretary of State does not have the numbers, because two weeks ago he wrote a letter to the director of the Electricity System Operator. I have it here. Do you know what he said, Madam Deputy Speaker? He asked the director to please

“provide practical advice on achieving clean power by 2030”,

including a

“High-level assessment of costs”.

Given that we are talking about people’s energy bills, I think the public would like a detailed look at what this is going to cost them. To top it off, he asked the director to advise what actions his Government should take

“to enable delivery…clearly setting out where further work is required.”

The evidence could not be clearer. He went into a general election with a pledge and no idea how to achieve it, what it will cost or whether it is achievable at all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald). I congratulate him on that excellent speech. In particular, when he speaks of Charles Kennedy, who is still tremendously missed in this place, he speaks of a political giant we all reflect on very fondly. It is also a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Noah Law), who I also congratulate on an excellent speech.

I speak today in support of a Bill that has the potential to be a real game-changer in the fight to decarbonise our energy supply. I applaud my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on his determination in bringing this Bill before the House so soon after the general election. It is hugely encouraging that the Government have got straight on with the business of setting up GB Energy, following hot on the heels of the excellent auction that we heard about just this week. GB Energy’s task—working hand in hand with the private sector to power an ambitious expansion of renewable energy—is a crucial one. The task of decarbonising our energy supply could not be more urgent. Scientists have made it clear that the warming of our climate due to carbon emissions is having disastrous consequences that are already being felt. We are not heading towards a climate emergency: we are already living in one.

We should reject the voices that say that China’s growth means that anything we do is futile. That is an excuse never to take the steps needed to decarbonise. Of course, there is a role for international negotiation and bringing pressure to bear on other nations, but we do that more convincingly when our own house is in order. That is why I am so pleased to support GB Energy. We have also seen the danger of being reliant on other nations for our energy security. Energy supply chains are increasingly fraught with geopolitical tensions and, in the case of Russia’s senseless invasion of Ukraine, outright conflicts. That lays bare just how vulnerable we can be when we cannot provide for ourselves. Make no mistake, energy security is national security.

We should benefit from the great natural riches this country is endowed with, yet the last Government’s inconsistency of approach detracted from the investment in renewable energy that we need. From the ban on onshore wind to the downgrading of feed-in tariffs and the disastrous, failed contracts for difference round 5 auction, the renewables sector has not previously had a consistent partner to maximise the potential for renewable energy.

[Dave Doogan]

I am fully aligned with the hon. Member’s priority for national security in energy not to rely on other nations. Of course, within the UK, Scotland generates vastly more energy than we can consume. Although we are in the same state—in the United Kingdom—Scotland is a different country and a different nation. Does he think it is appropriate that Scotland should reap no benefit whatsoever from its energy endowment relative to anywhere else on these islands?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Perkins]

I do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s description at all. We are part of a United Kingdom, and we all make contributions and we all receive benefits. The people of Scotland were given an option to vote to leave, and they chose not to. I know that is a result he bitterly regrets, but that is the choice the people of Scotland made. It is absolutely true that Scotland produces a large amount of renewable energy and of energy more generally, and it also gets many other benefits in many other ways. That is why I suspect the number of Members on the Benches next to him is so much smaller than it was previously, because people have recognised, overall, the benefits of being part of this great Union.

As I say, we should benefit from the great natural riches that his country is endowed with, but the previous Government’s approach withheld those opportunities. What today’s Bill offers, alongside the astonishingly successful round 6 auction, is a strong signal that the new Government are taking the generation of renewable energy far more seriously. It is imperative that the sector knows it has a Government who are a reliable partner, without constant knee-jerk changes in policy: not a pushover or a Government who give away taxpayers’ money thoughtlessly, but one setting out a fair and reliable basis for firms to invest.

Alongside the imperative to reduce emissions and bills, GB Energy can be crucial for our economy. I am pleased that the Government have announced that GB Energy will be headquartered in Scotland. Scotland is proportionately the leading nation in the UK for renewable power. However, I caution the Secretary of State not to ignore the contribution of coalfield communities such as those that he and I represent. In north Derbyshire and across the north midlands and south Yorkshire coalfields, communities that were created to power the nation with coal from the dawn of the industrial revolution should be central to the Government’s thinking in this arena.

This Government have laid down demanding targets to double energy generated by onshore wind farms, triple solar power and quadruple offshore wind. Those objectives are a vital part of decarbonising the grid by 2030, but we should not be in any doubt about the challenge they represent. There are still many legitimate questions about the operation of this new enterprise and where the balance will sit between being a conduit to private investment and being a provider in its own right, but criticism of the Bill from Opposition Members has been wildly overblown. The truth is that this small Bill is introducing the company—it is not the entire energy policy of this Government—and much of the criticism has been fanciful. However, I would be interested to know from my hon. Friend the Minister how the new company will work across Government to unlock the planning system while taking communities along with us.

I am extremely pleased to speak in support of this Bill, and I will be voting for it with great enthusiasm. Yes, there is lots more work to do, but this Government have made a damn good start.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call Ann Davies to make her maiden speech.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Bowie]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. He was right the first time—hon. Gentleman, not right hon. Gentleman. I was very pleased to visit Sellafield and Moorside in his constituency, and I was proud to be the first Minister for nuclear in the history of this country. I was proud to launch Great British Nuclear, and to announce the small modular reactor drawdown scheme, our route to market for alternative energy, that we would build a third gigawatt-scale reactor at Wylfa and that we would carry on with things at Sizewell. Now it is in the hands of the hon. Gentleman’s party to take the decisions necessary to move the nuclear industry to the next level, moving forward on our proud, world-leading agenda for reinvestment and our revolutionising of this country’s nuclear industry, of which he is rightly proud.

[Mr Perkins]

On that point, will the shadow Minister give way?

[Andrew Bowie]

I will not, because that will eat into his own Minister’s time to respond. Oh, maybe I will as it is the hon. Gentleman who is asking.

[Mr Perkins]

The shadow Minister is such a generous man. He is listing all the commitments he made, but we all know that his Government made £22 billion-worth of commitments that they had no idea how they would pay for. Why does he not tell the truth?

[Andrew Bowie]

“Truth” is quite an interesting word coming from the party that has decided to prioritise train drivers over pensioners and that, on the very day it announced a 22% increase in junior doctors’ pay, told the pensioners of this country they would be going cold this winter.

To go back to the matter at hand, what will be the relationship between GB Energy and UK Industrial Fusion Solutions or the International Atomic Energy Agency? How will that affect the plans for STEP—the spherical tokamak for energy production—at West Burton? The Secretary of State wants the UK to export more energy, but has he done an analysis of the impact on bill payers of building the required infrastructure and interconnectors? Will GB Energy and not Ofgem now be the final decision maker when it comes to the approval of new international interconnectors to the continent? If so, how will it be held responsible for those decisions by the Department and by Parliament?

I know the Minister is a respectful person, so I ask him sincerely to please end the disrespect being shown to the people of Aberdeen, with the “will they, won’t they” game being played around the location of GB Energy’s headquarters. Politics aside, that area of the country is already worried about its economic future. My plea to him, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon and Buchan (Harriet Cross) asked earlier, is to end that situation and make an announcement as soon as possible.

Ultimately, the simple question the Minister will have to answer, after having considered all the points made by hon. Members this afternoon, is why? Why are the Government doing this? Britain is already a world leader in clean energy production. We are already leading the world in cutting our carbon emissions. We already export energy. We are building new technologies at unprecedented rates. We have halved our emissions and done so while growing the economy.

The Secretary of State regularly, and rightly, claims that it is Britain’s over-reliance on gas that has led to bill payers here paying higher bills than in other countries. As I say, he is not wrong. It is acknowledged by the Climate Change Committee that we will be reliant on gas for a significant proportion of our energy supply for many years to come, so his decisions for the North sea will leave us, in the short term, even more reliant on foreign imports and on the countries and regimes he claims he wants to free us from, and there will be a lower tax return for the Treasury from a smaller sector. Jobs, capabilities and skills will be lost overseas, and bills will not fall, certainly not by the £300 he claimed during the election.

So if there is nothing in GB Energy for bill payers, it does not have the capital to enable it to be an Ørsted or an EDF, we are already a world leader, it will open the taxpayer up to huge risk, investing in emerging technologies might fail and it will not increase our energy security, the question is why do it? What is the point in GB Energy? Surely the Secretary of State is not that desperate to have something to put on his “Ed stone” or to have a new plaque to unveil. It may well be about the “Ed stone”, but the Secretary of State should be aware that this Bill could be the Government’s tombstone. We have seen how these projects end up: Robin Hood Energy collapsing, leaving Nottingham City council with a bill of £38 million; and the same with Bristol Energy. What will the bill for the country be if GB Energy follows the same path?

Great British Energy will not produce any energy, it will not cut household energy bills by £300 as the Prime Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero have all stated, and it will not compensate for the amount of investment in energy projects that will be deterred by the Government’s plans to prematurely shut down the UK’s oil and gas sector. It is an unjustified use of taxpayers’ money at a time when the Government are withdrawing the winter fuel payment for 10 million pensioners as energy bills rise. I echo the words of the Secretary of State and urge Members on the Government Benches to ignore their Whip and vote for our amendment this evening.

Contracts for Difference

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his elevation since the election. I look forward to our exchanges in this House. I say him to gently that the crucial first phase of Opposition, in my experience, is having a bit of humility to admit where they have got things wrong. I do not deny that some of the things that the previous Government did were right, but quite a lot of what they did was wrong—for example, the nine-year ban on the cheapest, cleanest form of power, the blocking of solar projects across the country and the crashing of the offshore wind market, which led to the worst energy bills crisis in generations. That is their legacy, and at some point some of the leadership candidates will have to face up to that.

Let me deal with the hon. Member’s specific points. If I may say so respectfully, I feel like he answered some of his own questions. He draws attention to the fact that energy bills are rising from 1 October. He is right about that, and that is deeply regrettable. Why is that happening? Because we are exposed to international gas markets. This is about power that we do not control. Every solar panel that we do not put up, every onshore wind turbine that we do not erect, and every piece of grid that we do not build leaves us more exposed. The Conservative party is in a dilemma on this, because it is facing both ways, but it has to face up to that fact. Of course we will have a proper and orderly transition in the North sea, keeping existing fields open for their lifetime and having a just transition for the workforce, but the idea that the Conservative party and some of its erstwhile friends are clinging to—that fossil fuels will get us out of this—is completely belied by all the facts and the crisis that we went through.

The shadow Minister says—and I agree with him—that we need to have jobs in this country. He says it as if he finds it hard to remember who has been in power for the past 14 years. It is terrible, he says, that everything is being produced elsewhere. He is right. Germany has almost twice as many renewable energy jobs per capita as the UK. Sweden has almost three times as many, but, most interestingly, Denmark, with its publicly owned energy company, Ørsted, has almost four times as many.

The hon. Gentleman asks about Great British Energy. We will debate that matter on Thursday, but one reason why we went to the electorate on this point and were endorsed on it is that, unless we have a publicly owned national champion, all the evidence is that the jobs will go elsewhere. That is part of having a basic industrial policy.

The hon. Member talks about solar energy, but, again, he has to make up his mind about where he is on this. He says that he agrees that we need clean energy in this country, and that we have to get off the international gas markets, but the problem is that the Conservatives duck every difficult decision. Then he asks about undergrounding. The Conservatives were in power for 14 years, so they had plenty of time to do the undergrounding of all the cabling. Why did they not do that? It is because they know that it is multiple times more expensive. Now they come along, less than two months after the general election, and say that it is time for some undergrounding of the grid. For goodness’ sake! I have experience of being Leader of the Opposition. Perhaps it is time for the Conservatives to have some private tutorials on how to be in opposition.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

It is great to see my right hon. Friend in such ebullient spirits. I have to say that his enthusiasm can only be matched by that of the industry, which today has roundly welcomed the decision that he took back in July to increase the size of this auction. That demonstrates that, if we have a Government who are consistent, positive and ambitious, the industry will respond and will back their plans. Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that the great start that he has made will be continued with a consistent plan under this Government, so that businesses can invest for the long term, knowing that the Government will always back them?

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend makes a typically eloquent point. This is about a partnership with private industry. The truth is that much of the investment that we need for the clean power mission will come from the private sector, and I suspect that there is cross-party agreement on that. We on the Government Benches have a difference with the Opposition, though, because we believe that a lot of that comes from breaking down the barriers to planning and grid infrastructure, which is a massive challenge for supply chains and skills. There is also a role for what we call catalytic public investment, levering in extra private investment.

The other point that my hon. Friend makes is absolutely right. There is huge enthusiasm in the private sector and industry more generally for this sense of mission for the country. We want this mission to involve every business that has an interest in this area, and I believe that we can achieve that.