Regional Pay (Public Sector)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very informative intervention, which shows some of the problems. He is right to point to the recent riots in London, because police forces from his area and mine were sent down to London to deal with those problems. What would the morale in the police force be if there was differential pay in different parts of the British state? In fact, I cannot think of many other policy interventions that would undermine completely attempts to rebalance the economy geographically.

Returning to some of the arguments used to promote the idea, the notion that depressing public sector pay would lead to the brightest and the best leaving the public sector to generate wealth seems a slightly strange one. Public sector workers often make a lifetime commitment to joining a profession and to public service. Rather than seeking work in the local private sector, they are far more likely to seek similar employment in other areas where they will receive better pay. That will result in speeding up the brain drain that has caused so much damage to the communities that I represent.

There are a number of technical problems with the introduction of regional public sector pay. One obvious problem is how to calculate pay. Is the idea to link it with private sector pay? If so, the huge disparities in pay in the private sector between different parts of the UK would be replicated in the public sector. Generally, private sector wages in Wales are only half those in London. Are we seriously saying that a public sector worker in Southwark who does exactly the same job as an individual in Carmarthenshire should be paid twice the rate?

How many different regions will there be? How will boundaries be set, and how often will pay and boundaries be reviewed? In an unusual sign of activity, the First Minister of Wales announced within hours of the autumn statement that if the UK Treasury introduced the policy, the Welsh Government would seek to assume responsibility for public sector pay. I remember being interviewed by the BBC on the steps of St Stephen’s entrance on my response to the autumn statement. I was asked to respond to the First Minister’s comments, which I had not heard previously, that regional pay was

“a code for cutting pay in Wales”.

He continued:

“Ultimately we may have to look at taking over pay and conditions here in Wales. It’s not as easy as it sounds. There are real issues in terms of how that’s done. But if we’re forced into that situation, better that than have people’s pay cut by the UK Government in London.”

That sort of fighting talk, with an alternative course of action, is extremely unlike the current Welsh Government. We normally get a pile of hot air based on Labour-Tory tribalism, but with even the Welsh Government awakening from its slumber, perhaps Ministers here in London should be very wary of the strength of opposition that these proposals will generate.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

As usual, my Plaid friends always make the case better when they do not mention the word “independence”. Going back to the better part of the hon. Gentleman’s argument, we have a Secretary of State for Wales who happens to represent a Buckinghamshire constituency. Surely, if these proposals were considered logically, the rate of pay for that Secretary of State—if she is still Secretary of State at the end of the week—would be rather different if she represented a Welsh seat. That would be absolute nonsense, and it illustrates how nonsensical this policy is.

[Jonathan Edwards]

That is a fantastic intervention, if I am honest. Obviously, if we were to think this policy through rationally, it would mean that Members of Parliament should receive differential pay, and I can imagine how that might go down with hon. Members if we had to vote on it.

Fuel Prices

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

That is indeed of real concern.

It is little wonder that so many of our constituents signed the e-petition—more than 110,000 members of the public called for the debate—and little wonder that the focus has been on the proportion of taxation in the current average price of £1.34 a litre.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady is making a powerful speech. Could she make it even more powerful by saying that she would support a reversal of the increase in VAT on fuel?

[Caroline Nokes]

I am not convinced that that would be legal.

This morning I met representatives of the Freight Transport Association. They told me that high fuel prices have had a crippling effect on the logistics industry, whose business viability is determined by the price of fuel. Even the smallest rise makes a massive difference to them. A 5p increase in fuel duty adds another £2,350 to the annual price of running an articulated lorry, and the 3p increase that is planned for January would mean that a fleet of 50 vehicles would have to recover £37,000 more per year.

Finance Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Having tried on three occasions to intervene on speeches by Conservative Members, and on each occasion been told no, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for accepting this intervention.

On VAT, Conservative Members bleat that it is not possible to secure any rebate on VAT because the Europeans will not let us, but does my hon. Friend recall that the French managed to do so for their own restaurateurs? What is it about Conservative Members’ being so gutless and spineless that they will not argue our case in Europe in order to do something that would actually improve life for people in this country—especially as they brought in the VAT increase in the first place?

[Toby Perkins]

If I had had any idea that my hon. Friend so desperately wanted to intervene I would have given way earlier, but I am pleased to have been able to make her dream come true. The strong point that she makes, and on which Members should reflect, is precisely why my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) suggests that we assess the impact of the VAT increase.

I am not trying to get into a class war thing, but one reason why the Chancellor has got things so wrong and why so many of his policies seem so out of kilter is that he has no concept of what people can actually buy with a half-decent salary. That is one reason why, at the drop of a hat, he introduced the changes to child benefit. As someone who was loaded the day he was born, he has no idea of the difference between a salary of £50,000 a year, £20,000 a year or £12,000 a year; he just knows that they are a lot less than he has, and that people on £50,000 seem to earn more than the average so they are probably okay.

The Economy

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Evans]

We have heard about the FSA, and we have admitted that that did not work, but before that, there was self-regulation. There was no attempt to tie them down, and there is still no such attempt. When the Minister responds to the debate, we need to hear from her what the future of the banks will be. We need to know that.

This is the problem that I have with the entire debate. People say, “It was the Labour Government overspending”, but faced with the same problem of the banks going under, what would the present Chancellor have done? He would have done one of two things. Since his road to Damascus experience, he wants to cut everything, and following that logic, he would have done nothing. The economy would have gone under, and everyone with a mortgage would have been written off. Alternatively, bearing in mind his mates in the City, I suspect that he would have bailed the banks out just like we did. He would have been faced with a deficit, just like we were. We never hear anything about the future of those banks from Members on the Government Benches.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Conservative Members seem to forget what the Prime Minister said. In speech to the CBI, he said that the Government were sticking to Labour’s spending totals. Just weeks before the collapse of Northern Rock and for several months after it, he said to the Institute of Directors that if it wanted lower taxation and less regulation, he would—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I think that the hon. Gentleman has got the point.

Motoring Fuel Costs

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Robert Halfon]

That is my whole point. High fuel prices have become part of the poverty trap, and are a disincentive for people to get back into work, despite the Government’s excellent programmes, including the Work programme. I thank my hon. Friend for raising the matter.

Long-term stats from the Department of Energy and Climate Change show that in 1970 we used 25 million tonnes of petroleum in the transport sector. That has risen year on year, and doubled to 50 million tonnes today. But despite the UK being a net exporter of petroleum products, and despite the fall in the international oil price, our petrol prices are still sky high. In January this year, members of the Federation of Small Businesses said that if petrol prices continue to rise, 62% will be forced to increase their prices, risking inflation; one in 10 may have to lay off staff; 26% will be forced to freeze wages; 36% will have to reduce investment in new products and services; and 78% will see

“their overall profitability in jeopardy”.

Taxation is only part of the problem, and another major concern is transparency. As the AA, RAC, and FairFuelUK have said, if the 2p drop in the market cost of petrol had been passed on to motorists earlier this year by energy companies, it would have wiped out most of the impact of the 2.5p VAT rise. In May, I wrote to the chief executives of Shell, BP, Total, and ExxonMobil asking for price transparency so that we can see why prices are not falling. So far, only Total and BP have replied, but their replies essentially said, “Nothing to see here.”

In 2009, before the disaster in the gulf of Mexico, BP boasted profits of £8.7 billion. This year, Shell has reported first quarter profits up 40%, making its global profits nearly £2 million every hour.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way again, and for securing this debate. I particularly support the points made about rural constituencies. Does he favour statutory obligations on those companies to be transparent and to pass on their profits to consumers?

[Robert Halfon]

I do not want to unveil all my secrets at once, and if the hon. Lady waits a bit, I will give her my proposal.

Total’s profit rose 34% year on year, and ExxonMobil saw a 69% profit jump to $10.5 billion. We must acknowledge that some companies make a good return for pension funds, but a balance must be struck. I remember the fuel protests in 2000, when we were seriously concerned about the threat of petrol at 80p a litre. According to PetrolPrices.com, the excellent price comparison website, the most expensive unleaded fuel in the UK is now £1.51 a litre.

I accept that 64% of the petrol price is taxation, and I welcome the Chancellor’s steps to slash some of the planned taxes, but the big oil companies must play their part. Why are prices so different at petrol stations, and why are they raking in such astronomical profits when small businesses are being forced into bankruptcy by fuel costs?