Financial Services Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend gives a good example of the lack of joined-up thinking in our financial services markets. It would be good to see the big beasts of the financial services jungle supporting the newer players that want to address the problem of lending deserts.

Numerous websites offer comparisons between banking products, but the Centre for Responsible Credit has highlighted how, in practice, the banks release very little information about their lending at community level, either for businesses or for personal customers. Data on lending to and deposits from small businesses and third sector organisations, by postcode or at neighbourhood level, are not routinely available in the UK, even though much of that information is held by the banks and could be released.

The last time I spoke to representatives of the British Bankers Association, they told me that they were looking at this issue. It would be good to hear what the Financial Secretary thinks about it. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East clearly thinks that the Minister will be a new broom sweeping through the fusty ways of the Treasury, and I hope that he will use his considerable influence to maintain the pressure on the British Bankers Association to step up the release of those data. I also hope that he will use his meetings with the chief executive and board members of the Financial Conduct Authority to require them to initiate similar pressure, in private before the FCA is properly established, and in public thereafter.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend has been talking about bank deserts. Would he also accept that there is also a problem when small branches in rural communities close? We accept that some of those communities are very small, but there is a sense that once a bank has deserted a community, almost nothing can be done to support the businesses there. That is also something that we need to look at.

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. The situation is particularly stark in rural communities, but it is increasingly stark in many urban areas. North Harrow, in my constituency, no longer has a bank, and businesses in that area are extremely disappointed by the lack of easy access to banking services and the inability to have a proper discussion with a local bank manager about their finance needs.

I hesitate to suggest that the Minister might enjoy and benefit from a foreign trip, but should he find time in his diary, he might like to go to Washington and spend a little time with the National Community Reinvestment Coalition. He would find a considerable amount of expertise there on the disclosure of lending data by banks to businesses and individual consumers. He might like to bring back to the House, and to his conversations with those in the financial services industry, the benefits of the US legislation, the most recent update of which has happened since 2010.

Let me return briefly to the definition of payday lenders. If I may say so, I thought the Minister quite skilfully used an intervention made by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) to avoid defining payday lenders. I gently encourage the Minister to look again, not necessarily in the context of this debate, but separately, at how payday lenders should be defined. Even with the power proposed by the Lords, the question of definition is still ducked. If there is to be the interest rate cap for which so many Members, led by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow, have campaigned, we must have clearer definitions of which financial services businesses are included within the term “payday lenders” or the high-cost credit definition that was just mentioned, so that proper action can be taken.

I fear that many of the payday lenders who have looked at the amendment that the new archbishop has helped to force over the line, perhaps, in the House of Lords will recognise that there is no definition as yet, and so will not feel sufficiently worried to change their practices.

Inward Investment (Wales)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), the Chair of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, on securing this important debate, and on the work that he and the Committee have carried out on the inquiry into inward investment in Wales.

I agree with the Committee Chairman’s grave disappointment that the debate clashes with the statement on Leveson, and I hope that the topics that we are discussing will be revisited, as they are important. The hon. Gentleman reiterated eloquently the arguments that he has made in the past, together with my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) and others, about the Severn bridge and the importance of Government transparency in that respect. There was a little bit of the knockabout partisan stuff that I do not much like; but there were social democratic tinges to the speech too—and I dare the hon. Gentleman to put that on his website. The point that it would not be desirable to compete with China on labour costs was a good start, as was the fact that he mentioned the importance of education and Government-funded infrastructure and transport. He is developing a bit more of a social democratic tinge, and that is to be welcomed.

My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) made an eloquent and wide-ranging speech about, among other things, the importance of electronic global market reach; economic growth under the previous Labour Government of the United Kingdom; the pitfalls of regional pay and the tragic situation of Tata steel, with the related unemployment. He also spoke eloquently about the Welsh brand and tourism, and the importance of the Dylan Thomas festival, which I too welcome.

The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) spoke about emerging economies and made an important point about links with universities, and working in partnership with them. I also want to add a plug for Glyndwr university, and its links to Airbus. He also spoke about the importance of tourism, and we would all welcome the fact that that is now a priority sector for the Welsh Government, and for all of us. He discussed the fact that it is important for Wales to work alongside UKTI, and the importance of infrastructure and rural broadband.

The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) was, again, a bit partisan, but I suppose that is his job, really. It was nice to see him back all suntanned from his honeymoon, and I do not want to be too partisan on this occasion. I am sure it is good to see him back with us. However, I want to make one small partisan point. The hon. Gentleman spoke of the importance of promoting Wales and of openness about how that is done, and mentioned foreign direct investment and changed attitudes to it. The tiny point I want to make is that I seem to remember the main opposition to that in the 1980s—it might have been in the ’70s too, but I am too young to remember—tended to come from the Welsh nationalists. As for the discussions on funding arrangements, Silk and the like, I am sure that we shall have that debate. I hope that it will be on the Floor of the House, where it deserves to be.

I shall try to be relatively brief, because I know that there are one or two other matters that hon. Members would like to participate in today. As the Government response to the inquiry says, the Committee’s report is comprehensive and wide-ranging. I will not respond to every one of the recommendations, but I hope to touch on the key themes. I want first to talk briefly about why inward investment is so crucial to the Welsh economy.

At the moment, at the aggregated UK level, it is difficult to see where a potential source of significant future economic growth lies, given the austerity agenda being pursued by the UK Government. Despite an Olympic-driven injection of 1% growth in the last quarter, yesterday’s—albeit slight—downward revision of previous quarters’ figures is a reminder that the Government’s economic policies have massively under-achieved. Two years ago, the Chancellor forecast growth of 4.6% but, in reality, in that time, the UK economy has grown by 0.5%. None of us can rejoice at that. Tellingly, the economy is the same size now as it was a year ago and it remains more than 3% below its pre-global financial crisis peak. The reason is clear to the Opposition: it is that Government spending is being cut too far and too fast, and household spending is being squeezed by the increased cost of living, thanks largely to the Government’s decision to increase VAT, as well as the impact of high inflation and rising energy bills.

With consumption—which accounts for around two thirds of the quarterly GDP figures—being held back, we need significant levels of investment if there is to be growth in the economy. However, the Office for Budget Responsibility has slashed its forecasts for growth in business investment over the past two years. They are down this year to a predicted 0.7%, which is a huge drop from the 8.6% predicted two years ago. We all hope that when the Chancellor gives his autumn statement next week he will give a far brighter forecast for growth in business investment for the years to come, because, with more than 700 international companies having located in Wales over the past forty years, the securing of inward investment is vital for Wales’s prosperity. I believe that the Welsh Government are acutely aware of that. In 2011-12, foreign direct investment into Wales created and safeguarded 3,706 jobs, which represents an increase of almost 5% on the previous year. For Ministers in the Welsh Government, who have had real-terms cuts to their capital budget of more than 40% imposed on them, but who are none the less tasked with offsetting the economic damage, the promotion of inward investment to Wales provides a vital economic lever.

The Committee’s report rightly acknowledges that it is down to both Governments to work together to boost inward investment, but it is also right to say that the Welsh Government’s role is pivotal. Hon. Members will know that only this week the Welsh Government presented their budget for 2013-14—a budget for jobs and growth, which reflects an unwavering commitment to attracting investment to Wales as a means of boosting the Welsh economy.

The Committee focused its investigation on three key areas that are central to inward investment, and in those vital areas highlighted by the inquiry the Welsh Government have already put in place policies that will boost inward investment. I am sure that hon. Members will welcome the fact that Ministers in Cardiff Bay have also found additional funding in those areas, as revealed in this week’s budget announcement. The areas in question, recognised by both the Welsh Government and the Committee’s inquiry, are infrastructure, promoting Wales abroad, and education and research and development.

The ambitious Wales infrastructure plan will invest about £15 billion over the next decade in capital priorities. It sets out a sectoral and targeted approach to infrastructure investment that will help to create a Wales with modern transport, IT and energy networks. It outlines for the first time in Wales a list of existing schemes that are being delivered now and schemes that are in the pipeline to be delivered but have not yet started. That approach will enable the private sector to ensure that it is well placed and adequately skilled and resourced to support the infrastructure delivery that Wales needs over the next decade. The plan also features opportunities to lever in additional funds to finance infrastructure delivery, and in this week’s final budget announcement the Finance Minister Jane Hutt revealed additional capital investment of nearly £50 million to support the plan further. The plan exemplifies the Welsh Government’s vision for attracting sustainable economic growth in Wales and should be welcomed by Members on both sides.

Of course, another massive boost to Wales’ infrastructure—and, we all hope, also to long-term levels of inward investment in Wales—is the confirmation we had in July that rail electrification to Swansea and the south Wales valleys is to go ahead. Agreement for this £350 million direct investment is a good example of the two Governments working together in the best interests of Wales. In the context of austerity measures at UK level, it is a remarkable achievement.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Lady mentioned that it was important to increase investment in infrastructure and we agree with that. The UK Government have announced an infrastructure investment plan of £30 billion, comprising £5 billion from public funds and £25 billion to be financed—different from funding—from the private sector. The Welsh Government get a Barnett consequential on the £5 billion, but not on the £25 billion. Can the hon. Lady explain what mechanisms the Welsh Government have put in place to access that £25 billion of potential investment finance?

[Susan Elan Jones]

I will be honest with the hon. Gentleman. I am not able to give him the total details and I am not prepared to flaff and speak generally, but we will provide him with an answer.

This budget will bolster Wales’s economic competitiveness, generate jobs, increase mobility and, in the context of today’s debate, strengthen Wales’s bid for future inward investment.

Another way that the Welsh Government are going about improving transport infrastructure is by continuing to forge a close relationship with Cardiff airport. Ministers are determined to work towards modernising the airport and increasing its connectivity.

The second of our Committee’s central issues is Wales’s international standing and efforts by the Welsh Government to promote Wales abroad. Since the Committee’s inquiries, there have been significant developments on this front, which I am sure that hon. Members from all parties will welcome. In July, for example, the Welsh Government officially opened their new London headquarters, based on Victoria street, focusing specifically on promoting Wales to the world, attracting greater inward investment and boosting international trade. I welcome the fact that the office will be home to permanent staff with inward investment a large part of their remit. As our First Minister, Carwyn Jones, said when unveiling the new office,

“it will create an important base for the Welsh Government, and businesses from Wales, to influence decision-makers in the foremost financial and commercial centre in the world.”

Since then, the First Minister has also revealed plans to co-locate Welsh Government staff with UKTI, to forge an even closer relationship with staff there, which is most important, and to maximise their vital contacts and resources. At the same time, the Welsh Government have placed important emphasis on trade delegations, including recently welcoming a delegation from India, led by the country’s high commission, as well as two delegations from China in September. Just two weeks ago, the Welsh Government supported their largest ever delegation to an international trade event.

[David T. C. Davies]

Although I welcome the efforts to promote Wales through trade missions, does the hon. Lady agree that it would be helpful if the Welsh Assembly Government were willing to work with the UK Government and arrange joint trade missions with Ministers in the Wales Office?

--- Later in debate ---

[Susan Elan Jones]

I am sure that the Welsh Government and the Wales Office are able to discuss such initiatives. I welcome any trade missions. After graduating, I worked in Japan on a Japanese Government international programme, so I know first hand the importance of having such links and personnel, which were rather sadly downgraded by some people, in terms of international offices, and other such links. I am sure that collaborative working will be part of the Welsh Government’s and, I hope, the Wales Office’s thinking on this.

Some 70 representatives from the life sciences sector in Wales flew to Dusseldorf to take part in Medica, the world’s largest event for the medical sector, which featured more than 4,300 exhibitors. That is an excellent example of exactly the type of trade events that can create lasting relationships that can have long-term impacts on levels of inward investment.

A combination of a strong relationship with UKTI, a base for business in London and prioritising trade delegations shows that the Welsh Government get the importance of promoting Wales abroad. The same can be said for the importance of education and research and development, which are vital in their own right of course, but crucial too for the economic benefits that they can bring.

I hope that the Committee welcomes the many targeted investments that the Welsh Government have announced, particularly on the sciences, which the hon. Member for Ceredigion mentioned. Those investments include a £25 million investment in a dedicated life sciences fund, specifically designed to leverage a further £100 million in private capital for the life sciences in Wales. Science was explicitly mentioned in the report as being key to attracting inward investment. I hope that Committee members welcome this initiative.

I welcome the announcement from Education Minister, Leighton Andrews, that the Welsh Government have launched a £50 million campaign to attract the world’s greatest scientific minds to Wales. This ambitious scheme will enhance R and D in Welsh universities and market Wales’s research capability to the world’s leading scientists. In the budget announcement earlier this week, Finance Minister, Jane Hutt, also revealed support for the creation of a science and research facility led by Bangor university, to work in collaboration with Aberystwyth university. I trust that those examples of the Welsh Government’s finding innovative ways of encouraging inward investment will receive the Committee’s endorsement.

On the three areas that the Committee feels are central to increasing inward investment, the Welsh Government have put forward imaginative, innovative and—dare I say it?—patriotic policies and introduced a model that is flexible and responsive to our Welsh nation’s needs. They are actively pursuing a creative approach to encouraging inward investment, in the same way that they are pursuing an active industrial policy through enterprise zones, city regions and targeted funds for business, and pursuing an active approach to tackling long-term unemployment through Jobs Growth Wales.

On unemployment, I congratulate the Committee’s decision to launch an inquiry into the dismal failings of the Government’s Work programme and I look forward to seeing whether the Committee agrees with me that the Government should look to Jobs Growth Wales as an example, if they wish to make the work programme more effective.

The Welsh Government are doing all they can with the economic levers at their disposal and are being creative with plans to secure more inward investment. I hope that hon. Members from all parties endorse the many policies that I have mentioned this afternoon. Hon. Members will also be encouraged by how well Ministers in Cardiff bay and UK Ministers have worked together in Wales’s best interests, for example, on rail electrification.

To return to my introductory remarks, the best way that the UK Government can help Wales, not just on inward investment but on economic growth, is for the Prime Minister and the Chancellor to change course from their current austerity agenda and, like the Welsh Labour Government, introduce an active, engaged plan for jobs and growth to get our economy moving once again.

Small Charitable Donations Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response. I stress again that we want the Bill to pass. The reason for the amendments and our consistency on where we think the Bill still requires amendment even at this late stage is that we are relying on the charitable sector to tell us what works and what might be a problem. As I said at the outset, we recognise that the Minister has listened and—to be fair—in some instances introduced further amendments, but I press the case again. He has been good enough to recognise some of the areas in the Bill that need improvement, and he would gain favour with the whole House and the charitable sector if he could recognise the remaining areas that could be further improved and, even at this late stage, accept some of the amendments. That would make the Bill even better. The review clauses would allow us to revisit areas that I suspect will cause charities the most difficulty. We want people to benefit, not lose out, from these measures, so I hope that he will accept at least some of our amendments.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a privilege to speak in this debate. As hon. Members present at the time will know, we had some good, positive and, indeed, consensual discussions in Committee. Labour Members are keen to see the Bill passed, because we recognise that much of it is an extension of what previous Labour Governments did. That is why we want to get it 100% right. Things such as the compact for the voluntary sector and the immense growth and development of gift aid happened on Labour’s watch, and we are keen to see that trend continue in the Bill.

Certain groups will rightly be especially pleased with the Bill. It is fair to say that the dioceses, Churches and faith groups welcome the Bill, as do we, and it is right that we support those groups and the tremendous work they do in communities across the country. A range of other charitable groups will also benefit.

I am pleased with certain changes in the matching principle: I am not a betting person, but, on this occasion, 10:1 is clearly better than 2:1. Nevertheless, we are asking the Minister to listen to the voice of the national charities’ voluntary organisation, the Institute of Fundraising, as well as the Charities Aid Foundation and other groups, which are saying, “If you are prepared to improve the Bill in certain ways, as you have been, please think again about having the link with gift aid, if we really want charities, including those not currently claiming gift aid, to benefit.” I urge the Minister to have at least a little think about that. He and the Government have gone some way towards accepting some of the changes that those groups wanted. Let us get it 100% right. I urge him to consider those other changes too.

I want to look at the issue of reviewing the legislation, about which my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) spoke with great eloquence. We know that many things in the Bill will work, but if the development of community and voluntary sector groups over the last 10 to 20 years is anything to go by, we know too that fundraising has changed dramatically. What worked yesterday will not work today, and what will work tomorrow will probably not have worked today. It will change over time. That is why we ask the Minister to consider having a review.

Mention has been made about the way donations are made, and I am confident that more mention will be made of it. What interests me is that if one made a £10 cash donation, there could be benefits under this Bill, but not if the same donation was made on a mobile phone or with a bank card. As someone from generation X—I have not actually checked, but I think I am—that strikes me as a little odd, but let us think about the new donors we want to cultivate in generation Y, as I think it is called. If we are to build a new philanthropic culture that encourages younger and newer donors, we must at least be open on that point. I urge the Minister to look carefully at that provision, which I know has already been mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, and I know it will be mentioned later. I urge him to reconsider and to support the concept of an ongoing review so that future charities Ministers and other Ministers can look at this legislation and say, “Let us make it work for today’s generation.”

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

Let me begin by declaring an interest. Until relatively recently I was a trustee of two charities registered in Scotland and I remain a trustee of the Parliament Choir, which also has charitable status.

I acknowledge the progress made on the Bill in Committee and the steps people have made across the House to come up with constructive solutions to the acknowledged weaknesses of the legislation in its original form. I hope the Minister will take on board some of this evening’s amendments, not least the two in my name in this group—amendment 32 and the consequential amendment 33. My amendments are designed to provide a mechanism to allow smaller and project-specific charities to benefit from gift aid top-up payments without having to have made a successful gift aid exemption claim in three of the last seven years, or two of the last four—I am conscious that the Government have tabled an amendment to improve that part of the legislation. For the sake of clarity and simplicity, I propose that a “small charity” be defined as one with a gross annual income of £25,000 or less. As with other amendments in the group, the aim is to bring more small charities within the ambit of the legislation, which is a shared aim across the House this evening.

The reason I urge the Government to look closely at my amendments is simply that smaller charities often do not benefit from gift aid, and in some cases do not even register for it. The very charities that this Bill is intended to benefit are among those that are least likely to be registered for gift aid or to have claimed it regularly even when they are. As the proposals stand, an eligible charity has to have been registered with Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for a minimum of three years, made a gift aid claim in three of the past seven years, and not had a penalty imposed in making a gift aid claim. We know that around 100,000 organisations are registered with HMRC for gift aid, but only 65,000 claim each year, which is a significant gap. They include not just general charities, but excepted charities, such as churches, exempt charities, such as museums and foundation schools, and community amateur sports clubs. At the moment, many small charities are not registered with HMRC and do not have a three-year track record of making gift aid claims, which particularly affects charities run solely by volunteers—those that do not have professional staff, including fundraisers, or the time and resources that other, more professionalised charities do. Such charities are often involved in the very projects that attract the largest active community involvement and support, which in my view are exactly the sorts of activities that we should use the Bill to incentivise in our civil society.

Welsh Language (Non-devolved Departments)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention.

My specific concerns relate to the fact that I represent a constituency where about 40% of the population are first-language Welsh speakers. I would be the first to admit that not enough of those constituents who are first-language Welsh speakers demand services in Welsh, but there have been occasions since I was elected in May 2010 when I have communicated by letter with various Westminster Departments to highlight concerns about the non-provision of services through the medium of Welsh. In response, I again received examples of willingness to co-operate, but it is worrying that a Department stated in a letter quite recently that it is willing to co-operate through its Welsh language scheme and that it will consult the Welsh Language Board on how that relationship may be further developed. I wish that Department good luck, because the Welsh Language Board, as we well know, has been abolished.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Section 43 of the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 is extremely important. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, were the Secretary of State for Wales to give a statement of intent to do so, there would be no barrier to ensuring better Welsh language services in Whitehall Departments? Will he also join me in calling on the Secretary of State to give his section 43 consent?

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Lady jumps ahead of me, because I will mention section 43 later in my speech, but, yes, it is an important part of the legislation.

There are concerns, because some of the services offered to the people of Wales by non-devolved Departments are crucial. We all know how important the benefits system is, and we all know the pressures faced by constituents who have to go through the Atos health care system, and for them to be able to do that in the language of their choice is important. The Department for Work and Pensions has made it categorically clear that anyone wishing to undertake such a review through the medium of Welsh can do so, but we need to ensure that we hold the Department not only to its good intentions but to its promises.

Some of the other services offered by Westminster Departments are also crucial for the recognition that the language has equal status. In that respect, I congratulate the Department for Transport, which has recently given the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency licensing contract to the Post Office. As I said, I have been involved in the compliance efforts of the Post Office, which is an organisation that works extremely hard to ensure a bilingual service. Having those DVLA forms available in both languages in post offices across my constituency and across the constituencies of other hon. Members is a major step forward.

Why do I raise the issue now? We are in a transitional period and are slowly moving from the Welsh language schemes that existed under the 1993 Act to the new system of standards. Obviously, for those standards to be imposed on non-devolved areas, co-operation is needed between the Secretary of State for Wales and the newly created Welsh Language Commissioner. I have concerns, because we need that co-operation to be strong, but it needs to work both ways. I am quite confident that there is good will, and that willingness to work exists in the Wales Office, but I want to ensure that that is put on record today.

As the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) stated, one of the key points is that the 2011 Measure categorically states that the Secretary of State can ensure that there is an agreement for services to be provided by Ministers of the Crown in Welsh, where that has been discussed and developed in a co-operative fashion. I would argue, therefore, that we need to ensure that that process is addressed and articulated in the open, because transparency is always a good thing if there is some concern that that is not being provided, or that there is a lack of understanding of the requirement. The key issue is the lack of understanding of what can and what should be expected of the non-devolved Departments. I have no doubt that co-operation will be forthcoming from the Wales Office. We have seen that the intention is to work with the Welsh Language Commissioner, and I am sure that the Minister will confirm that my understanding is correct, but I will wait for his comments.

It is also crucial to state that, in addition to co-operation and agreement from the Secretary of State for Wales, we need to address the Welsh Language Commissioner being a post and an organisation created by the Assembly. We need the credibility that the Welsh Language Board used to offer as a board established by an Act of Parliament. That credibility will be forthcoming if there is a positive and strong working relationship between the commissioner and the Secretary of State for Wales. The Secretary of State for Wales should not simply sign off an order and leave it at that; there should be an ongoing process of co-operation between the Welsh Language Commissioner and the Wales Office. I ask the Minister to comment on any developments and discussions on the way in which such co-operation might happen.

If we accept the argument that there is a need for the Wales Office to be involved in the way in which the Welsh Language Commissioner and its powers are implemented in relation to the Welsh language, and I think we do, we have to ask the key question who will scrutinise that involvement. It is perfectly clear and correct that the Welsh Assembly will scrutinise the work of the Welsh Language Commissioner. That is what I expect to happen. The Welsh Language Commissioner is a body created by the Welsh Assembly, so it should be accountable to the Welsh Assembly. If the intentions behind the 2011 Measure are to be realised by co-operation and co-working between the Wales Office and the Welsh Language Commissioner, there is a question about who will scrutinise that work.

It is important that all Departments are held to account. We often hear the claim that the Wales Office has much less to do now than it did previously. This is one area where the Wales Office should be leading the charge, but there is a need for scrutiny. Have there been any discussions with, for example, my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) on the possibility of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs taking an interest in scrutinising potential co-operation between the Welsh Language Commissioner and the Wales Office? There should be accountability in the performance of any duties that affect the public. We are all clear that accountability for devolved areas will be undertaken by the Welsh Assembly, but there is a role for the Welsh Affairs Committee in monitoring the work undertaken by the Wales Office in partnership with the Welsh Language Commissioner, if that is the way forward.

I have raised my concerns because I see a disconnect between the aims of the 2011 Measure and what is happening on the ground. I do not claim that the 1993 Act was perfect, but I am concerned that the way in which it had bedded in and reached the point where it was accepted by most of the non-devolved Departments may be lost. If we lose that, it would be to the detriment of Welsh speakers in all parts of Wales, not least in my constituency.

I believe that the structures can be created in partnership between the Wales Office and the new Welsh Language Commissioner, but that has to be open and transparent, and subject to accountability through scrutiny by elected Members here in Westminster. I can see no better way of doing that than through the offices of the Welsh Affairs Committee.

I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Fuel Duty

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 12th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ben Gummer]

At least FairFuelUK sticks to its position. My point is that Labour put up fuel duty in government when the country was in a deep recession and increased it by marginally less when the country was showing signs of a credit-fuelled recovery—coincidentally, on the eve of an election—yet now, when there has been 1% growth in GDP, Labour objects to an increase in fuel duty that was programmed at that point by the previous Government. What Labour lacks in consistency it also lacks in remembrance of what it did previously, faced with the worst recession this country has ever suffered, when the Labour Government put duel duty up by 6p over 18 months.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman speaks of remembrance, yet he seems to have forgotten the rise in VAT. Will he say how that impacted on fuel duty and how it affected his constituents?

[Ben Gummer]

I shall turn to disposable incomes and the cost of living in the round now, as it is mentioned in the motion. Of course times are incredibly difficult, for my constituents and most of our constituents. The cost of living and disposable incomes have come under considerable pressure, but a large part of that has resulted from the need to balance the books. We were left the largest deficit in peacetime history, which—as the Minister reminded us—we now understand was £71 billion before the recession came. Yet the inheritance was not just one of deficit in 2008, but one where real wages fell in the period from 2003 to 2008, when GDP figures showed at least nominal growth—of 11% perhaps —in the economy. Real wages for anyone who happened to be a middle-income earner stagnated in that period, while real wages for those in the bottom quartile fell by 0.4%. Therefore, when the country was growing under the previous Administration, incomes were falling for the vast majority of people in real terms.

The reason we now have to take painful steps to rebalance the economy is to address the fundamental problems that the previous Government not only failed to address, but in many instances laid the foundations for. This country cannot survive on the economic model built by a previous Chancellor of the Exchequer and leader of this nation. It was that model which broke so spectacularly in 2008, and it is this model which we are trying, little by little, to repair. The least the Opposition could do is recognise the problems that they gave this new coalition Government to sort out, yet we have before us a motion that is a consummate exploration of inconsistency and hypocrisy. What I would say to those on the Government Front Bench is this: do not listen to the Opposition when they give lectures on tax avoidance or fuel duty, because they have none to give.

I suggest that we have a system that will not work in the long term. The problem with fuel taxation is that—as the Office for Budget Responsibility has probably underestimated—it will cost the Exchequer some £13 billion by 2026. Fuel taxation is a system that has been modified so many times to allow for low-emission vehicles, heavy goods vehicles and rural drivers that it is becoming a sieve for the Exchequer, and it needs fundamental reform. I would push Ministers to think seriously again about road tolling, so that we can stop this silly exercise, which we now have year in, year out, of deciding whether to put up taxes—decisions that are often completely countermanded the next day or within a week by volatile rises and drops in the price of oil—and moreover allow ourselves to manage the vast assets that we have in the road infrastructure in this country. At the moment, there is no demand management and complete resource misallocation in maintenance and investment, all of which could be remedied by a sensible road tolling system, which would help us to target help specifically at those constituents whom many in this Chamber will talk about this evening.

We have before us an inconsistent and hypocritical motion—a motion that tells us nothing, apart from the fact that Her Majesty’s Opposition are a long way from forming Her Majesty’s Government. I therefore commend the amendment, which my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary has moved, and, in so doing, hope that he will look again at road tolling, so that we can stop this perennial debate once and for all.

Small Charitable Donations Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 4th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

We hope that this scheme will be well used, and I have already set out that aspiration. I have set out the aspiration, too, that the scheme will get £100 million to charities. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the numbers set out in the impact assessment, which has certainly been made available to him. The key point is that the scheme needs to be open and, as we have said, worth while for charities to access, which I think it will be. Equally, we need to be able to keep track of the possible costs of the scheme, which I am coming on to deal with. I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that a pool of around 100,000 charities have claimed gift aid in the past four years. It might be possible to take that number as an estimate of the number of charities that could be eligible to apply to the scheme. We hope that take-up will be high, but by its nature, it is somewhat hard to predict at this point, but I am not suggesting that all those 100,000 charities will put in claims.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that if organisations such as the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, the Charity Finance Group, the Charities Aid Foundation and, I believe, the Institute of Fundraisers have problems with the practicalities of what she has suggested, she should at least consider the details again? I am sure we all agree on the general principles, but this is about getting it right for predominantly small community and voluntary groups.

[Miss Smith]

It is indeed about getting it right for those groups that we all care about. I can reassure the hon. Lady that I have already made changes to the Bill on a number of points, in comparison with what was originally outlined. If I can make a little progress, I will come on to explain them. I further reassure her that the whole point of having a public scrutiny stage for the Bill is exactly to hear those points. I have made it my priority to work with those representative bodies and, indeed, to work directly with charities as much as possible, reassuring them about the benefits of the scheme and explaining why I designed it carefully in order to protect its aims.

--- Later in debate ---

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson). He began his remarks by suggesting that people in the outside world might be more interested in the current reshuffle in Westminster. If it is any consolation to him, the first discussion of charities in this House took place in 1601 and the discussions about charities in this House have mattered far more than any reshuffle. I am therefore sure that what we are discussing matters more.

The modern charities sector in England and Wales is large and diverse—far more diverse than it was in 1601. A recent briefing by the National Audit Office for the Select Committee on Public Administration stated that in 2009-10, there were approximately 160,000 registered charities in England and Wales with an estimated combined income of £55.4 billion. It also stated that there were more than 191,000 unregistered charities with a combined income of at least £57.7 billion. That shows the size, diversity and importance of the sector. More than that, it shows the importance of our getting this legislation right.

When we think about the Bill, we have in our minds a selection of small, voluntary organisations that work against the odds to do the very best for their communities. Those are the organically formed groups that exist across the country. They are the groups that the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), who I think is still the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, once noted are animated by “fire in the belly”. He went on to give the following description:

“For it is that which has traditionally motivated people to form voluntary and community organisations, and then to take action to correct some injustice which has made them angry, or fill some gap in services which has moved them.”

It is surely our task in this House to do everything we can to support the work of such groups. That is why I am sure that everyone in the House will want this legislation to be the best that it can possibly be.

All moves to encourage giving and to simplify the system should be welcomed, including the principle behind the Bill. There have been many welcome changes in this area in recent years. Many Members will remember that until 1990, one needed to enter into a four-year covenant for charities to be able to get tax back. Then came the welcome break of gift aid on cash gifts of £600 or more. Later, in the great spirit of the Jubilee 2000 movement, came millennium gift aid, which was introduced by the then Chancellor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown). That major change in the support for charitable giving, which applied first to projects in the developing world, meant that charities could claim the tax back on gifts of £100 made in a lump sum or in instalments. Subsequently, that was extended to all charities and to all sums of money, which I am sure was welcomed by all.

The principle behind the Bill is very much in that tradition. The new scheme will enable charities to claim back the tax on small donations of up to £5,000 per charity, without the need for donors to fill in a gift aid declaration. Charities will therefore be able to claim a maximum of £1,250 a year, which is welcome. I urge the Government to consider carefully the concerns of groups in the voluntary sector, such as the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, the Charities Aid Foundation and the Institute of Fundraising, about whether the bureaucracy will make things too complex for the charities that the Bill is intended to benefit and that the Government and Opposition parties want to see benefit.

We will particularly need to see what happens with the matching principle. The Economic Secretary was absolutely right that the National Council for Voluntary Organisations does not like the existing provisions, but it does not really like these proposals either. It states:

“We recommend that the 2-1 matching principle is dropped. We would also welcome steps to open the scheme up so that start-up charities, and those that are currently not registered for Gift Aid, have the opportunity to register and begin using this scheme sooner.”

I hope the Government will take that on board sooner rather than later.

Under the Bill as it stands, charities will have to have been registered with HMRC for at least three years. Many voluntary groups are not registered with HMRC, and they are the exact small groups that would benefit most from the scheme and are doing good work in our communities. I urge the Government to consider that.

There is also cause for concern about community buildings. I very much welcome the impact that the Bill will have on certain churches and places of worship of other faiths, because I personally believe that there should be a special place in heaven for anyone who volunteers for the post of gift aid secretary. However, the Economic Secretary made an interesting point about how the scheme would benefit Catholic parishes. Indeed it would, but there is an anomaly in it. A parish doing fundraising work in its church premises would be able to benefit from the scheme, but not one running a cake bake or similar fundraising programme elsewhere, even if it were identical work. That matter needs to be considered.

There is also the issue of the Bill’s impact on hospices, which the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) raised earlier. There cannot be a Member in the House who does not recognise the excellent work done by hospices across the country.

A further anomaly involves independent care home that provides low-cost residential care for elderly people. It is registered with HMRC and so able to make gift aid claims. It is not independently registered with the Charity Commission, because it is part of a wider group of residential care homes and falls under the governance of a larger charity. The care home independently manages its own finances, human resources, business development and marketing, and being local it often receives small cash donations from collection tins positioned in shops in local towns and villages. It is also contracted by the local authority to provide services.

It is bad luck for that care home because it will not be entitled to a penny under the Bill’s provisions. As a small branch of a national charity, it may be considered “connected” and therefore fall under the community buildings rule, but as its services are not linked to one community building it will be unable to claim for small cash donations. Residential and commercial buildings will not be eligible, and as an organisation providing residential care on a contracted basis, the care home will fall under both those categories. Its donations are also not made during the course of charitable activities or within a community building being used for those activities, but through separate fundraising events and activities. That is just one of many anomalies that have to be considered.

I do not wish to discuss wider issues in detail, but we have to recognise that these are tough times for voluntary and community groups. The recent National Audit Office briefing that I cited earlier quoted the NCVO’s estimate that in 2015 the charity sector is likely to receive £1.2 billion less than in 2012. Moreover, back in July Mr Christian Guy, the managing director of the Centre for Social Justice, a think-tank that I believe the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions set up, said that

“the Government must do more to convince charities that it is supportive of the valuable work they do in communities. Support is all the more necessary during a time of austerity, when budget cuts could enable the most disenfranchised people in society to slip through the cracks.”

We could debate many more issues today, but as a start it is vital that we look at all possible anomalies and at evidence from pan-sector charitable groups, as well as from individual charities and people with an interest in the area. For those with fire in their bellies and those who will benefit from the legislation, we must ensure that we get it right.

Finance Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

Without going anything other than briefly through a history of sterling in the 1980s, I seem to remember that it bottomed in 1985 at $1.10 and then started rising again. So, that was not the case throughout the noble Lord’s period in office.

I shall come back to the subject of the Laffer curve, but I must first take an intervention from the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones).

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I must confess that I was rather enjoying the sporting analogies and wondering, if the rules were different, what rates of taxation would be required for England rugby players to be able to beat the Welsh—but let me move on. The hon. Gentleman says that there is no morality in tax, but how does he feel about indirect taxation? There were many concerns about the effect on petrol prices, for example, when VAT was raised. Does he think that that should be reduced, too?

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady—

Financial Services Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Stella Creasy]

The hon. Gentleman slightly pre-empts me. I was about to say that the doorstep market, 67% of which is owned by Provident Financial, is not competitive. Nevertheless, his point about APRs being difficult to understand is well understood.

The amendment is not a panacea. We need total cost caps on credit charges so that consumers have an explicit amount beyond which the cost of any loan will never go—interest rates, administration charges and late repayment fees included. I also agree strongly with the hon. Member for North Swindon about financial education and investment in debt advocacy services to give consumers help to negotiate with creditors and the support needed to make good decisions.

We also need an expansion in alternative sources of affordable credit through credit unions and social finance. The idea that the market will somehow reduce prices where there is disparity between the consumer and supplier belongs in the textbooks, not real life. We also need a proactive regulator to ensure effective competition and protection against consumer detriments. The amendment would address those problems and provide the opportunity, presented by the FCA, to take action as quickly as possible and to prevent the problems in our communities created by these loans from becoming worse.

I agree with the Chair of the Treasury Committee, who said about replacing the FSA:

“The creation of the FCA is an opportunity to create something much better. If we are not careful, the FCA will become the poor relation among the new institutions. But it is the one that will matter most to millions of consumers.”

However, for the FCA to be that better institution, its power to act on toxic financial products needs to be made clear. The financial services practitioner panel stated:

“We acknowledge that it will be useful for the FCA to have tighter powers to control any product that can and does do harm.”

The amendment is in that spirit. It would give explicit powers to the FCA to cap, where it sees appropriate, the charges firms can apply.

I understand that the Government have been briefing people that those powers are not needed because the FCA already has product intervention powers. The Minister seems to think that that could happen, but he must address two questions: first, can it intervene; and, secondly, are its powers of deterrence or sanction appropriate to the toxicity we all want to prevent? Clearly, there are good grounds to fear that the first is not the case. In his speech today and in the document setting out the FCA’s powers, there are somersaults and loops worthy of the Olympics gymnastics team. The document states:

“The government has said that the FCA will not be an economic regulator in the sense of prescribing returns for financial products or services. The FCA will, however, be interested in prices because prices and margins can be key indicators of whether a market is competitive. Where its powers allow, the FCA will take into consideration more positively the cost of products or services in making judgements about whether consumers are being fairly treated. Where competition is impaired, price intervention by the FCA may be one of a number of tools necessary to protect consumers.”

I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), who is not in his place, but that is part of the Government’s thinking.

The problem, however, is that the Government’s thinking is fuzzy. Lawyers in this area have highlighted the lack of clarity about whether the FCA is intended to be a price regulator and about whether the legislation proposes such a thing. John Odgers, the lawyer for Which?, highlighted that point in his written evidence to the Treasury Committee:

“It seems to me to be desirable that a power of price intervention should be spelled out, if it is intended. Financial services regulators have not in this jurisdiction previously exercised that type of power, and might in future be loth to do so without a specific statutory authority, as the use of such a power would be particularly likely to attract a challenge.”

The Minister should talk to the OFT. It is particularly well placed to tell the FCA about the problems that the fear of legal scrutiny places on consumer credit regulation. As it admitted, that fear has defined its work in this field and its lack of action against these firms. It has feared the cost to the public purse of unsuccessful legal actions. In his evidence to the Public Accounts Committee on 5 September last year, the chair of the OFT stated that

“there are companies now pursuing particular practices that 10 or 15 years ago perhaps would not have employed the most expensive lawyers and taken every point under the sun. Now, however, that is happening with an increasing number of cases where you might have otherwise expected the party to throw in the towel after the first round. They do not do that, and therefore we have to take very careful assessments. We have a particular case at the moment that I have in mind where, much to my surprise, the parties have involved the most expensive City lawyers, and we know perfectly well that we are at substantial risks on costs if we lose.”

It is little wonder that Google has a stronger track record on taking action against such adverts and firms than the OFT, which, in the past eight years, has managed to take action against one brokerage firm only.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Are the Government extremely weak on this issue compared with other Governments around the world?

[Stella Creasy]

We should listen to the companies themselves. They state explicitly that they are coming to the UK and expanding their operations here at an alarming rate precisely because of the lack of regulation of our payday industry in comparison with other countries. They are clear that, because we do not have that regulation, we are fertile territory for their practices.

Budget Leak Inquiry

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

If the intention is to keep the shadow Chancellor’s speech off the lunchtime bulletins, I suspect that it will succeed, and who would blame the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) for wanting to do that?

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Would the Minister describe it as a coincidence that the £3 million stealth tax on pensioners was one thing that was not leaked?

[Mr Gauke]

I am not sure whether we are now getting complaints that we are briefing too much, or too little.

Youth Unemployment and Bank Bonuses

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

I am not sure how the Government will rebalance the economy by throwing more people on the scrapheap. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman and I will just have to disagree, but that does not seem to me to be the way to rebalance the economy and to get it growing again.

Despite the Government’s mistakes, they still have choices open to them.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

None of the automated Government Members mentions the VAT tax bombshell, because they must know in their heart of hearts the absolute disgrace of the VAT increase for small companies. Does my hon. Friend agree that when Labour Members speak of a VAT cut for home improvements, we are speaking up for jobs in construction in a way that some Government Members will never understand?

[Rachel Reeves]

The cut in VAT to 17.5% is part of Labour’s five-point plan for jobs and growth. It would put £450 in the pockets of an average family, which is desperately needed to help people who are struggling with the rising cost of living—the rising train, energy and petrol prices.

We have rising unemployment and excessive bank bonuses, but it does not have to be that way. While millions of families up and down the country struggle with the effects of redundancy and millions of young people lose the hope of fulfilling their potential, very little is being asked of those with the broadest shoulders. Despite his pre-election promises to tackle the bonus culture, the Prime Minister will not take the measures recommended by the High Pay Commission to make a difference. Despite the Government’s call for more shareholder activism and engagement as a check on excessive remuneration, they wash their hands of the reported decision to award more than £1 million to the chief executive of RBS, in which they are a major shareholder.