Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Tuesday 11th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I agree with my hon. Friend. Under the previous Government’s system of financial regulation, there was a lack of clarity over who was responsible for financial stability, so when the alarm bells were ringing, no one was listening. We have reformed the system of financial regulation to address those failures by placing responsibility for financial stability firmly with the Bank of England and creating two newly focused financial regulators, the Prudential Regulation Authority and the Financial Conduct Authority.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

If the Royal Bank of Scotland asks for permission to pay bonuses of more than 100% of salary—while, incidentally, its subsidiary NatWest closes branches in my constituency—will the Chancellor just say no, or is he as out of touch as the bank appears to be?

[Sajid Javid]

The failed regulation by the previous Government that led to Government ownership of RBS also produced a system of governance that is done on an arm’s length basis. Those are commercial decisions for RBS. If the hon. Gentleman wants to make representations to it, he can do so through me if he wishes.

Money Transfer Accounts and Remittance Sector

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I will attempt to be as brief as I can because I would like to hear the Minister’s views, as well as those of my Front-Bench colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson).

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and neighbour, the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), for securing today’s debate, our second on this important issue. It is important that we have been able to debate it again so that we can get some answers and see what progress has been made. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) and, indeed, Members from across the House. It was good to see the right hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) in the Chamber. I have worked with him in the all-party group on Somaliland and Somalia, and I know that he shares many of the concerns expressed by the Opposition.

I want to emphasise the strength of feeling out there in the local community. Just before the Christmas recess, I attended a packed meeting in Butetown in my constituency in Cardiff South and Penarth. It was filled with people predominantly from the Somali community—young and old, recent migrants to this country and people whose family had been here for generations. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West mentioned, Cardiff has a strong and long-standing Somali community, as well as Yemeni, Bengali and Indian communities. This issue reaches across people of many different backgrounds, countries and histories. That is a hallmark of the campaign and emphasises the strength of feeling.

One of the most respected imams in the local community, who does not normally attend political meetings, was there, which again emphasises the strength of feeling. My local councillor and colleague, Ali Ahmed, and many other members of the local community attended. They highlighted the issues raised in the debate today: the impact on development, jobs and prospects in countries such as Somaliland and Somalia and elsewhere, and also the impact on jobs and opportunities for small businesses here in the UK—my hon. Friend mentioned a specific case in his constituency. There were also concerns about zakat and the ability to fulfil the responsibilities that many in the Islamic community here in the UK perform so generously and so well. There were concerns about security and about how people could be forced underground if we do not find a solution. As my hon. Friend said, we could find ourselves in a far worse situation than that which Barclays appears to be suggesting has forced it into making its decision.

I pay tribute to the huge efforts of the campaign and the hundreds of thousands of people who have signed the petition and campaigned up and down the country. I thank the Government—there has been some effort and some meetings. My concern is the urgency, the detail and the process going forward, and I want assurances that the concerns raised by the campaign and by the individuals affected are being addressed.

It is important to emphasise the scale of the impact. The UK remits $23 billion annually to third countries. For Somaliland, the figure is estimated at £500 million annually. According to one estimate, Somalia receives 50% of its annual gross national income through remittances, and Oxfam estimates that 40% of the Somali population—some 3.8 million people—depend on remittances. We have heard how remittance figures often dwarf international aid flows, and I think we would see a similar situation if we looked at the detailed statistics for many of the other countries affected. We have heard about the implications for development and economic prospects, and for security and human rights. That is why we need to address the issue with urgency and care.

I have specific questions for the Minister, and I hope he can give some assurances. First, focusing on the way in which Government Departments work together on this issue, we have seen statements by the Treasury, DFID and others, but can the Minister assure us that the Treasury is playing a key co-ordinating role, given the nature of its relationships with the financial sector and the ability to achieve change on a global financial scale? Have the Foreign Office and other bodies for which the Foreign Office has responsibility been included, and have proper assessments been made? I am sure the Minister will not be able to share details, but can he assure us that, for example, the security services have assessed the implications? We have already seen worrying coverage in recent weeks about the activities of al-Shabaab in the horn of Africa, and we saw the terrible events at the mall in Kenya. Can the Minister assure us that full assessments are being made of the implications of not finding a solution to the problem?

I also want assurances on who is attending meetings. Campaigners have raised concerns that, although a couple of representatives from DFID and perhaps the Treasury have been at the meetings, there has not been cross-governmental participation, so I would like assurances that when discussions occur—internally and externally—there is full participation by all Departments, not just the Treasury and DFID, because the matter affects the Foreign Office, the Home Office and many others.

I want to know about discussions at the international level. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow, I want to know what discussions will take place at events such as the G20. The problem is being instigated largely by decisions taken by United States regulators. Until we can address the legitimate concerns that the regulators are raising, we will not be able to come to a long-term global solution. Like my hon. Friend, I want to know about the interim solution and when the action group is going to meet.

Can the Minister tell us about the discussions he has had recently with DFID about the clear time frame and action plan for the safe corridor? There is a lot of expectation and hope around that, but also a lot of unanswered questions that members of the community and campaigners have asked, so can the Minister reassure us?

There is a wider issue of engagement with the many stakeholders out there in the community, particularly in the diaspora community, and how feedback is being given at different stages of the process. Some members of the community rightly feel that they have not had the feedback and assurances that things are moving forward at the speed and with the seriousness that we would all like. Is the Minister able to share—perhaps in the Library—some of the reports into the wider implications that have been undertaken internally by the Government? There are concerns that some of the reports have not been made public, which adds to a sense of doubt about whether anything is happening or whether solutions will be found.

Finally, what is the Minister’s assessment of the legal situation and the injunction that has been granted? I appreciate that the Government cannot intervene in the judicial process, but it is a key factor in terms of the timing and that window of opportunity in which we have to find a solution. What is his assessment of what has been going on in that process? To what time scales are we working? Will we get into a situation in which we arrive at that process—or an earlier legal process if Barclays continues to challenge the injunction—and suddenly find that Dahabshiil or other money transfer operators have to close down, and the millions of people who to rely on such services are left high and dry?

I am reassured by a letter that was sent to the right hon. Member for Banbury from the Prime Minister. The letter states:

“Let me start by assuring you that I completely understand the importance of remittances and the crucial role they play...supporting economic growth while providing a vital safety net...we can work with them to come up with alternative solutions so that people in Somalia do not lose out.”

That is a welcome commitment in writing from the Prime Minister. I hope that the Minister can give us assurances that that commitment, and the commitment of his colleague in DFID, will be met.

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[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Lady makes a good point. Banks should be concerned about the reputational impact that could arise as a result of their decisions. I confirm that the Treasury, the British Bankers Association and other representatives of the banking industry have discussed the issue. We are engaged with all banks, including state-owned banks. I stress that what a bank does, or does not do, is ultimately a commercial decision for it to take.

[Stephen Doughty]

I say gently that the idea that the Government do not get involved in directly suggesting what banks do and do not offer is a little bit away from the point. For example, the Government work closely with banks, through Help to Buy and other schemes, on what commercial products they offer and how they provide them to serve the public. I wonder, perhaps philosophically, why this matter is being treated slightly differently.

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the state-owned banks came about by accident rather than design, and the Government’s overriding purpose now is to return those banks to the private sector, with the best interests of shareholders paramount. With regard to Government involvement in the banking sector, he mentioned the Help to Buy scheme. That is a good example of a scheme that is designed to work through incentives. No bank is compelled to take part in that scheme or similar ones, such as the funding for lending scheme, which work through incentives. It is important to consider what the Government can do to make it easier for banks to stay in the MSB sector or to get more active in it. That is the right area to explore to help our constituents.

The Government cannot prevent UK banks from facing supervisory and enforcement action from other jurisdictions. Hon. Members know that this is not just about rules in the UK, because European Union rules, and especially rules in the US, affect many money transfer businesses, because most transfers typically have to be converted into US dollars and therefore touch US soil. What the US authorities think is therefore important.

We are committed to doing our utmost to ensure that remittances continue to flow through secure, legitimate channels. The market is adapting, and remittances are continuing to flow into and out of the UK. Particular concerns have been raised regarding Somalia, as we have heard today. That market, too, is adapting and remittance channels remain open. The supervisors and the Government have been monitoring the situation carefully. We know that all MSBs operating in the Somali corridor prior to the decision by Barclays continue to do so, with a number still having bank accounts. Although individual MSBs may be finding trading conditions more difficult, remitters can still service a wide range of customers in the UK and different areas in Somalia. Additionally, many MSBs across a range of corridors are becoming agents of other MSBs, and discussions have been held with various MSB communities on using cash couriers in a manner that is secure and compliant with legal requirements for the cross-border movement of cash.

We must ensure that our constituents are aware of the options available to help them to continue to make remittances. Since the previous debate on the matter in this Chamber, the Government have engaged directly with the Somali community on these options.

Since the previous time I addressed hon. Members on this issue, I have made a written ministerial statement setting out the cross-government effort to find solutions, which included an action plan to secure the continued flow of remittances. The plan includes steps to improve trust in the UK remittance market by the formal banking sector, for example, through building the capacity of money service businesses and providing guidance on the banking of such businesses. It also outlined the creation of an independent action group on cross-border remittances. Through this group, officials from across the Government are working closely with regulators and the private sector to facilitate a sustainable market-based solution. The first full meeting of the group is scheduled to take place next Friday—31 January. I am pleased to announce today that Sir Brian Pomeroy will chair the group. Sir Brian has extensive experience in this field, as the founding chairman of the Payments Council and the previous chair of the Treasury’s financial inclusion taskforce, and through his work with the Alliance for Financial Inclusion.

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[Sajid Javid]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for reminding me of his question. I understand why he raises that matter, and there are two parts to my answer. First, there is a legal dispute, and I do not think it is sensible for any Minister to give an opinion on any matter that is before our courts, which would not be helpful to either party in the dispute. Secondly—this links to my earlier point—Barclays has to make its own decisions. Barclays is a commercial organisation. It has to assess the risks of doing business as well as, as the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow pointed out, the potential impact of its commercial decisions on its own reputation. I will ensure that Barclays receives the report of our proceedings so that it may have an opportunity to reflect on the words of not just the hon. Gentleman, but all hon. Members who have participated in the debate.

[Stephen Doughty]

With your indulgence, Mr Owen, I have three brief points for the Minister to respond to. First, on the time scales and the window of opportunity that we have, will he assure us that there will be key milestones by which certain aspects of the process will have been concluded? Secondly, will the action group report back to the wider community that has an interest after the meeting on 31 January, because one concern is that there has not necessarily been as much feedback and information sharing as possible with the community? Finally, at what level is the weekly group meeting? Is it at the level of directors, heads of team or Ministers? Who is involved in that group?

[Sajid Javid]

First, we all share the sense of urgency on the time scales, which is apparent from all hon. Members who have spoken today and from the Prime Minister’s communication that the hon. Gentleman read out. Naturally, it is always helpful to set targets—I referred to the target that the Somali focus group pilot would be up and running within a year—but we also have to respect that there is no advantage in setting an artificial target and saying that something should be done in six months or a year. This complex issue requires a degree of international involvement and co-ordination, so the most important thing is to ensure that we do the work urgently, but in a way that brings a long-lasting solution. While I share his sense of urgency, I hope that he respects that answer.

In answer to the second question, we will share as much information as possible with all members of the public, although of course the matter is of particular interest to certain communities in the UK. I have had meetings, for example, with representatives of the Somali community, as have a number of officials in the Treasury, DFID, the FCO and other Departments, and we will continue to have those meetings and to share as much information as possible.

Broadly speaking, the weekly meetings involve officials from all Departments, but the hon. Gentleman’s question was more specifically about the level of those officials, and I will have to find that out because I am not sure whether it is always the same officials involved and always people at the same level. Clearly there will be some commonality when the meetings take place, but I can find out more detail and share it with him.

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Cathy Jamieson]

We pressed for an earlier introduction of the measure so that we could debate and finesse it if necessary. However, the Government were prepared to move only at the last minute, through a successful amendment in the other place, and it is disappointing that they now want to strike it down.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend is making a strong case. I, too, served on the Committee and witnessed our efforts on this matter. Why have the Government been on the back foot throughout the process? We are talking about the culture of banking, but I wonder whether there is an issue with a Government culture of continual caution, rather than the challenge that ought to be presented to some of those interests in society that have failed our country.

[Cathy Jamieson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. I do not know what was in the Government’s mind, but in Committee the Bill was very thin. We raised the matter on a number of occasions, but the Government resisted every attempt to amend the Bill in Committee, apart from on one minor detail. In retrospect, that is not the way to produce the best possible legislation. The Bill will undoubtedly have been improved by the end of the process—I do not detract from the work that has been done—but it would have sent a stronger message to the general public and the financial services industry that this place took the matter seriously if the Government had accepted amendments at an early stage.

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[Sajid Javid]

The measures that the FCA has already suggested, and on which it is currently consulting, go a long way to protect consumers in this sector. Of course, the FCA has broad powers in this area and there is nothing to prevent it from considering future measures as it learns more about aspects of the market. For example, the hon. Gentleman may know that the Competition Commission is currently looking into this sector. It is due to report back with its preliminary findings next May and a final report around November. It will look at the sector for about 18 months in total. I am sure that the FCA will take that into account and see what further measures it could take, if necessary, with the broad set of powers it already has. I hope that is of some reassurance to the hon. Gentleman.

Designing the cap on the cost of credit is a job not for the Government but for the independent and expert regulator. Nor is it right that the detail of a cap should be enshrined in primary legislation, given that the industry it is intended to bind is so fast-moving and innovative.

Lords amendment 155 makes clear the FCA’s overarching objective in this endeavour: it must make rules to impose a cap to protect consumers from excessive charges imposed by high-cost, short-term lenders. This language echoes the FCA’s consumer protection objective. The FCA must make rules to advance one or more of its operational objectives, namely consumer protection, market integrity and competition. That applies to the rules to implement the cap, just as it does to all FCA rule-making. The FCA’s competition duty also applies. It must consider how the rules affect the ability of the market to serve consumers’ interests.

As we have heard, introducing a cap is not without risks or potential adverse consequences, including reducing access to credit for some individuals who find themselves in financial difficulty. The FCA will not be able to eliminate those risks, but it will seek to manage them. It will be important that the FCA strikes the right balance in designing and setting the cap.

[Stephen Doughty]

Given that the Government have moved belatedly on this issue—I hope it will make a big difference, notwithstanding the risks mentioned—will the Minister pay tribute to organisations such as Sharkstoppers and Movement for Change and the many community activists around the country who have highlighted the dangers posed by the payday loan industry, which is getting people into thousands of pounds’ worth of debt? The Government have listened to those voices, so will the Minister pay tribute to them?

[Sajid Javid]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that we as a Government have spoken to many stakeholders, including hon. Members, on this issue. Many people have done a good job and deserve credit for looking at the evidence in more detail.

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The FCA is already getting on with gathering the evidence and detailed analysis that it needs. It will consult in the spring on its draft proposals, at around the same time as the Competition Commission is due to publish its provisional findings. Consultation will take place over the summer and the FCA plans to make the rules in the autumn of next year. Again, that is likely to be at about the same time as the Competition Commission issues its final report. The cap will come into effect, at the latest, by the beginning of January 2015.

[Stephen Doughty]

Notwithstanding the points that the Minister is making, many consumers and campaigners on this issue will be concerned about what he has said about the time scale. The Government have dragged their heels on this issue for a number of years and could have taken action well before the date that has been set. I would like to see a cap before this Christmas. I agree with other hon. Members that it is crucial that the cap is in place before next Christmas. One of the campaigners from Swansea whom I met, a woman called Serai, got into more than £1,000-worth of debt with one of these lenders after taking out a very small loan to help pay for her kids’ Christmas presents. This is a crucial point, so I hope that the Minister will give a little more hope to the many campaigners who would like to see the cap introduced before next Christmas.

[Sajid Javid]

I will say a little more about the timetable in a moment, but it is a bit unfair of the hon. Gentleman to say that the Government have had years to introduce the cap, when the Government whom he supported had 13 years to introduce a cap and did nothing.

A number of steps must be taken before the cap can be implemented. All of those steps are important and if they are rushed, it will put consumer protection at risk for the sake of speed. There must first be evidence gathering and analysis. That is critical in getting the cap right. The FCA will draw on the evidence that the Competition Commission has collected. It might also have to get information from lenders and others in the market to get on with its work as quickly as possible. Yesterday, the Government laid secondary legislation before Parliament that will allow the FCA to seek information from the industry. That will support the design of the cap and the cost-benefit analysis that the FCA must issue.

The second and most vital part of the process is the consultation with interested parties on the proposals and their impact, as set out in the cost-benefit analysis. The final component that is necessary for the successful implementation of the cap is that lenders must be given a short period in which to update their systems and processes to meet the new requirements and become responsible, compliant lenders. Difficult though that is, we are not prepared to compromise on the process because that could lead to poor outcomes for consumers.

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[Stephen Doughty]

I apologise for omitting to mention my membership of the national committee of Movement for Change, which has been campaigning on this issue, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Does my hon. Friend share my surprise at the continual chuntering from the Government Benches? As she rightly says, there has been an explosion in the past few years on this Government’s watch, and they have been dragged, kicking and screaming to this point. I have seen an explosion of these stores on high streets across Cardiff, and an explosion in cases of people who have got into trouble with payday lenders.

[Cathy Jamieson]

My hon. Friend makes valuable points, which I will come on to address.

The Government opposed the proposals initially, but eventually gave in and passed their own amendments in the other place. The FCA has so far failed to use its powers to introduce a cap. There were concerns that unless pressure was applied it would not necessarily have been able to speed up new powers, and we could have seen a further delay in real-time monitoring across the high-cost loan sector. That is why, some months ago, the Leader of the Opposition promised to introduce a cap. He also suggested an extension to a levy on payday lenders’ profits, which would be used to double the level of Government funding for alternative low-cost providers, such as credit unions, for those struggling with the cost of living crisis.

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[Cathy Jamieson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind words about my comments. I am simply putting forward the views brought to us by the people at the sharp end who have experienced the worst problems from payday lending. I pay tribute to those people again for doing so. I agree that it would be wonderful if we could secure some further consensus on these problems and send a clear message to the industry, particularly on advertising. The advertising spend of the top five payday lending brands apparently stands at about £36 million a year. That seems to suggest that they are investing heavily in attracting new borrowers at the same time as being not quite as willing to invest in responsible lending.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend has made an important point about the amount of money such companies are investing in advertising. Many Members will have noted how much investment those companies are putting into advertising in football. Fans are targeted, which I think is particularly heinous, and a number of organisations have campaigned against that. Does she agree that football clubs should resist that type of advertising, which will put their supporters into great debt?

[Cathy Jamieson]

My hon. Friend tempts me to talk about football, which is one of my favourite topics. I will resist that temptation, except to say that I share his concerns about that.

Returning to our amendments and what the industry could do, I understand that there are differences of opinion about how best to tackle the problem. As we have seen, however, technology is available. The Veritech software is, I understand, used in 14 states in the US. Arguably, lenders would have the resources to bring that in if they wanted to. If lenders will not do something voluntarily, surely it will make sense to require them to do that, because in the meantime consumers are falling into debt. The Government should therefore act as soon as they possibly can.

Interestingly, we have heard that this issue is not just about the impact on consumers. The 118 118 company has told us that it believes the introduction of data sharing would enhance levels of competition, arguing:

“It is probable that if real time data was available, and lenders could be more confident in their lending decisions, many more of them would be attracted to this market segment. We would hope and expect that the FCA would be very cognisant of this point in view of its explicit competition objective”.

That is an interesting view. Where lending is being done, we want to know that it is being done by reputable companies, backed up by the proper technology and proper principles.

Cost of Living

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Leslie]

There are only another 18 months during which there will be more Conservative Members than Labour ones in this Chamber. I hope that the hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) is watching the clock, because they are running out of time.

The Prime Minister has broken not only that list of promises, but more records than most Prime Ministers over the decades, and not in a good way. How has he been a record breaker? Since entering No. 10 Downing street, he has delivered a record-breaking cost of living crisis, with wages failing to keep pace with prices for an unprecedented 40 out of his 41 months in office. That is the longest period of diminishing real wage values since records began.

A record-breaking number of people now rely on food banks just to get by—it has tripled in the past year alone—with more than 350,000 families requiring food parcels in the past six months.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

On the cost of living crisis that is driving people to food banks, does my hon. Friend share my shock at the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) saying that people use food banks because they are drug addicts and cannot manage their money, rather than because of the cost of living crisis?

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I do not know whether what was said is true or false, but the hon. Gentleman has put the facts on the record. I am sure that that point can be sorted out later, no doubt over a cup of tea.

[Stephen Doughty]

rose—

[Chris Leslie]

I will happily give way to my hon. Friend in a moment, so that he can relay the quote that he has to the House. Perhaps a journalist wrote it down incorrectly, but I am sure that there is an explanation.

The point about food banks is that the crisis is so bad that the Red Cross has launched an emergency food appeal right here in the United Kingdom, something that has not happened since the second world war.

The Prime Minister’s broken records include real-term wage levels plunging to a new low and average weekly earnings at their lowest level since the Office for National Statistics started to record the figures in 2001. Not only has he hit record lows on incomes, but he has delivered record fuel bills and average household energy costs—

[Stephen Doughty]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am sorry to raise another point of order, but the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan suggested that I may have misled the House—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. Let me reassure both hon. Gentlemen that I am not going to decide who is right. You have each claimed that you are right and that the other is wrong. It is on the record, and people can make up their minds tomorrow. I want to continue with this debate.

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[Sajid Javid]

My hon. Friend is right to make that point. I think every MP in this illustrious House could share similar numbers. Indeed, in the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury’s constituency, 4,000 people have been taken out of income tax altogether and more than 38,000 have had an income tax cut.

Our changes to the personal allowance mean that someone working full time on the minimum wage has seen their income tax bill more than halved under this Government. It also means that for any income on which people would pay Labour’s 10p tax rate, which it previously abolished, they pay a 0% tax rate under this Government.

[Stephen Doughty]

Is the Minister still a member of the Free Enterprise Group of Conservative MPs and does he agree with that group and the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng) that VAT could be increased to 15% on food and children’s clothes, which are currently zero-rated? How would that help with the cost of living crisis for my constituents?

[Sajid Javid]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman is so interested in tax, because he will be sure to welcome the news that 38,000 people in his constituency have had an income tax cut and 4,500 have been taken out of income tax altogether.

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[Stephen Doughty]

What do the polls say about the attitude of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents to his proposals to put VAT at 15% on children’s clothes and food?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I have mentioned my specific proposal and not the Mickey Mouse, cartoon version offered by the Daily Mirror. [Interruption.] I am not sure which rag it was, but I will not return to that point.

The cost of living debate cannot be conducted without reference to the actual economic conditions or the economic legacy of the previous Government. It is a sleight of hand—I admire Labour’s political skill in that regard—and dishonest not to recognise that the cost of living debate cannot be conducted without reference to the economy. It is also not very open handed or reasonable to suggest that the previous Government’s legacy and appalling record have nothing to do with the difficulties that families up and down this country face.

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[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this important debate. Over the past few months, we have seen the spectre of the Chancellor and the Prime Minister on repeated occasions suggesting that everything is rosy and that hundreds of thousands of jobs are sloshing around. It is the old attitude of, “Crisis, what crisis?” Unfortunately, such a view is completely out of touch with the daily, lived experience of many of my constituents and thousands of others across Wales, who have seen one of the greatest falls in real average earnings—a staggering drop of £1,669, or 8%, since the general election, when this Government came to power. They see this Government as out of touch, patronising and complacent; they see a Government on the side of the rich, of millionaires and of banking and energy bosses, as we heard aptly demonstrated by the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales). It is Labour Members who are on the side of the British people, with solutions such as capping the cost of credit and payday loans, and freezing energy prices. These real measures would help the real lives that many on the Treasury Bench seem to have little understanding of.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Does my hon. Friend share my incredulity that the price rises that the energy companies started to announce are being blamed on us because we announced our policy on an energy freeze?

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is right to point out that the energy price scandal has been going on for some time, and that the Government have done nothing to deal with it.

I welcome any growth and any new jobs in the economy, and I hope that any positive movement in the economy will help people in my area address the massive drop in earnings since this Government came to power. However, I caution that illusions are simply not good enough. The Government repeatedly fail to answer questions about how many new jobs are part-time and, of those, how many are on zero-hours contracts. They also do not say in what sectors those jobs are being created. The truth is that half the new jobs are in low-paid sectors, and that the minimum wage is not always being enforced.

When I hear the Chancellor crowing about recovery, I am always tempted to ask, whose recovery and what sort of recovery. Is it a recovery benefiting my constituents who are struggling to find well-paid jobs, to pay those soaring energy bills and to put food on the table for their children? Is it helping those who are struggling to cope with the bedroom tax? One well-known local Liberal Democrat member in Cardiff recently said in a tweet that she knew that it was difficult for some people, yet many Liberal Democrats proudly voted for the bedroom tax in this House the other night. It is not just difficult but increasingly impossible for many families across my constituency.

Let me share with the House three stories that I have come across recently. First—I hope that the hon. Member for Redcar is listening—one of my constituents came to me saying that his monthly direct debit to npower had been increased from £197 to £254 just after he had been reimbursed an overpayment. I contacted npower and found that that was on top of the price rise of 10.4%. For him, the rise is 28.9%, which is extraordinary. That is the sort of issue that is affecting people in the country. How will that man make ends meet over the next few months? [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Redcar is chuntering from a sedentary position. As he does not seem to be interested, perhaps he would like to intervene and respond to that sort of example.

[Ian Swales]

Does the hon. Gentleman think that the likelihood of a price freeze in 20 months’ time will make prices go down or up between now and then?

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Gentleman will know that we called for a price freeze now, but it was the Government who voted against it. He should look at what is happening on his own Benches before making such comments. How is the recovery helping constituents who are being slammed by energy prices?

Let me give another example. A single father in the east of Cardiff with a 12-year-old daughter who lives with him full-time has just been sanctioned for two weeks for not providing enough evidence of his job search. He has actually provided a lot of evidence. He has been applying for multiple jobs, even in the bar and restaurant industry, despite having a history of alcohol abuse and being advised not to work in that sector. He has always worked and has never claimed social security before. He is not computer literate and has only been given limited assistance with his job search and he is not allowed to submit handwritten evidence of his job search. He is not in receipt of any other social security benefits, so the only money that is coming in is child benefit and tax credits. He has been struggling to manage over the past few weeks. After paying all of his bills, he was left with £3 to feed himself and his daughter. The real tragedy is that his daughter is trying to help the family by bringing home her school lunch because she is worried that she will not get fed at home. He is absolutely distressed and mortified to be in that position. Where is the recovery for him and his daughter?

My last example is of a gentleman who came to see me at my surgery the other week. He was being sanctioned for being unwilling to travel far away from home. He does not have a car and it was extortionately expensive to travel to the area to which he was asked to go and it would have left him out of pocket. As a result, he did not take that job, but he is willing to take any other job that he is offered. None the less, he was sanctioned and his money was put down to just £40 a week. I am fighting on his behalf with the jobcentre. The reality is that he has very little on which to live. He told me that he was not able to put on the heating and electricity. He said that it was not that cold, despite the fact that the weather outside was freezing. He was putting on extra jumpers just to try to cope and to get by—he was in an absolutely awful position. He has worked all his life and now he is not putting on the heating or the electric, so where is the recovery for him?

Those are the real stories of people living under this Government. They simply do not recognise the rosy picture that the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and other Ministers have been telling us about over the past few days. The story across Wales as a whole is equally concerning. More people are hit by the bedroom tax in Wales than in any other area in the UK. Even the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), despite some of his more outrageous comments the other day, has admitted, as Chair of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, that significant challenges are caused by its impact in Wales.

We have some of the highest energy prices in the country and 1 million households would benefit from Labour’s price freeze. Wales has the biggest increase in those in energy debt compared with anywhere in the UK, up by 24% in the past two years. People are now consistently falling into arrears with the energy companies as a result of those price rises. We have seen one of the biggest falls in real wages across the UK and one of the largest increases in under-employment—that is, people who want to work more hours but are unable to do so because of the types of jobs that are available. They do not recognise the fantasy of the 1 million or so jobs that the Government keep citing.

I have described some heart-rending cases, but we also heard earlier about food banks. The use of food banks in Wales has trebled in recent times and in every part of my constituency, from Penarth to Splott to Llanrumney, I am seeing increasing numbers of people accessing those food banks. That is why I was so disappointed to hear the remarks of the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), who is no longer in his seat. He attempted to suggest earlier that I had somehow misled the House on his views about food banks. Let me put on the record the reasons for people using food banks that he gave to his local paper, the Barry & District News, on 5 September. He said, and I quote directly, that the reasons were

“inability to manage money and to budget, addiction to alcohol or substance misuse, bullying at home, neglect by the benefit recipient and a range of other reasons.”

He did not recognise or comment on the real reasons people are going to food banks: energy prices, low wages, the social security changes or delays that the Trussell Trust says are the biggest reason for people going to food banks, the low incomes that the trust also points to as another such reason, and the debt that many people are getting into with payday lenders, loan sharks and others. I believe that it was right for him to be criticised by local Labour councillors for a local Labour council that is doing an immense amount to help people in very difficult times, including working with Cardiff on a collective energy buying scheme to help reduce the pressure from the energy companies, which are ripping off consumers across the country.

The figures for the whole of Wales tell an even greater story. Some 400,000 people have been hit by the Government’s squeeze on tax credits and social security overall; that can be compared with the 4,000 richest in the country, who got a handout from the Government with the tax cut for millionaires.

My constituents and people across Wales are asking again and again: whose side are the Government on, who is benefiting from this so-called recovery and who will stand up for them? Time and again, they are left wanting by Tory and Lib Dem Members. They will get a much better deal if they vote for Labour at the next general election.

Money Transfer Accounts

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bayley, and I know you take a great personal interest in these issues. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) on securing this important debate. I also congratulate other Members on the excellent contributions that we have heard so far.

I declare a number of interests. Like many other Members, I have a significant number of constituents from Somaliland, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sudan. Those communities have a long and proud history in my constituency, and they all remit funds to those locations. I also declare an interest as the secretary of the all-party group on Somaliland and Somalia.

Some weeks ago, these issues were brought starkly to my attention by a number of the money transfer organisations involved in remitting to Somaliland and Somalia. A month ago, we had urgent discussions with the new ambassador to Mogadishu and with senior Foreign Office officials, so people have been aware of this challenge for some time, and I will return to that at the end of my remarks.

I want to underline how important remittances are and how crucial it is that we find a solution and get things right. Members have spoken of the value of remittances to individual families, who are often in difficult circumstances. Oxfam provided a helpful briefing, which said:

“in most cases, money received is used to cover basic household expenses including food, school fees and medical costs.”

It notes that, in a recent survey,

“one third of respondents said that they would not be able to meet these basic needs if remittances were stopped.”

That is in addition to the concerns Oxfam and other humanitarian organisations have about their ability to provide services if money transfer services are stopped.

Many hon. Members have mentioned the security and stability implications, particularly in the case of Somaliland and Somalia. The hon. Member for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham) eloquently noted that the changes could be a step back for the country, which is coming out of conflict and instability. That is certainly not what the UK Government want, particularly after the recent Somalia conference and the many other steps that friends of Somaliland and Somalia have taken to see the two countries progress.

Remittances are also a complement to aid. There are two crucial issues. This is not only about my constituents; it is also very much in the UK national interest to find a solution to this problem. Remittances play a crucial role alongside our aid moneys. In the end, we want to graduate countries out of aid and ensure that they can stand on their own two feet, so pulling the rug out from under a number of them in this way will be particularly problematic.

We have heard many of the figures already, but I want to reflect on a few of them. I have tabled questions to the Treasury, and the answers show that the UK remits upwards of $23 billion a year to third countries. Remittance flows globally are estimated at upwards of $500 billion. Those are huge sums and often dwarf aid flows to countries.

An answer from the Minister of State at DFID said that the Department estimated that Somaliland received upwards of £500 million annually, while 50% of Somalia’s gross national income came from remittances, which ultimately supported 3.8 million people. Those are huge numbers, so this is not a small problem—it is fundamental to the ability of these countries to be successful. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow said, Somaliland and Somalia face particular problems, which need to be addressed. They do not have the services that are available in some other countries, and with 70% of money transfer services potentially affected by the changes, we really have a very large problem.

I do not think that anyone would disagree that we want safe and secure transfer methods for senders and recipients. There are also legitimate concerns about money laundering, terrorist financing and other issues, although only a small amount of remittances are affected by such activities, and the vast majority end up in the destinations where they belong. However, we really could be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. We could increase the security risk and end up with channels for transferring money that are not policed or regulated in the same way as existing channels. Individual constituents could be ripped off, as they are forced to use more expensive or less secure methods of sending remittances —indeed, there is the possibility of theft increasing and money going missing—rather than the reputable organisations that already operate in this field. With 70% of money transfer services potentially at risk from the changes, we have a huge problem.

As I said at the beginning of my remarks, I met Foreign Office officials and the new ambassador to Mogadishu some weeks ago. Since then, I have had discussions with the Minister and with other officials. I have also had discussions with Barclays itself. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) and I secured a meeting with it the other week, and we had a constructive conversation, notwithstanding the criticisms and concerns that have been raised, a number of which Barclays must answer further questions on. To be fair, however, Barclays was constructive, and it did not just want to shrug its shoulders and turn away from the issue; it wanted to work with the Government and diaspora communities to find solutions.

I was therefore concerned when Barclays told us that it had written to the Treasury two weeks ago. I have the letter here, and it is dated 3 July. Indeed, Barclays has had other correspondence with the Treasury. I very much hope that the Treasury has responded by now. Barclays offered to sit down and have constructive discussions with the Treasury, the Foreign Office, DFID, the Home Office and all the other interested Departments to try to find solutions. This is really one of those cases where the Government have to step in.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

We were indeed at the meeting together. It is a very constructive suggestion that there should be a round table with all the major banks, which can then work with Treasury to resolve the problem. It is unfair to load everything on to just one bank, which happens to be the last in line. The Treasury needs to address this issue very seriously. Mr Bayley, let me also apologise for coming late to the debate, owing to another commitment.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend makes the point perfectly. As I said, there was a great willingness on the part of Barclays to sit down with Departments. I hope the Minister can reassure us by telling us what steps have been taken—perhaps in the past week—so that we can know that these conversations are going on and will involve all the crucial Departments. Obviously, numerous Departments, banks, organisations and Members have an interest in resolving this matter. Barclays had a number of technical solutions, which I was unable to comment on, but I hope that Treasury officials and the Minister might be able to.

I second the comments made by the hon. Member for North West Norfolk regarding the need for the Government to engage in urgent discussions with the United States, where a lot of the regulatory pressures are coming from, so that we can secure answers.

In conclusion, this is a huge problem with serious implications not only for my constituents and their families, but, ultimately, for this country’s national interests in international development financing and our security needs. We urgently need to find a solution because time is pressing and will run out at the end of August; otherwise we will find ourselves in a very difficult situation.

[Hugh Bayley (in the Chair)]

I should do a commercial between each speech: the Minister is asking to have a little more time, if possible, so that he can better answer your questions. I leave that thought in your minds.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid)]

I am grateful for this opportunity to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Bayley. I, too, add my thanks and congratulations to the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) for securing this important debate. We have had a number of discussions on this issue already, and I look forward to continuing to have those discussions with her. I know that this is a very important issue for her and for all of us in this Chamber and beyond, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.

This issue is of concern to Ministers across Government and to hon. Members on both sides of the House, because a healthy, functioning remittance sector is crucial for the thousands of our constituents up and down the country who use such services to send money abroad. If you will allow me, Mr Bayley, I would like to speak for a moment about my gran. My gran—my mother’s mother—has been receiving remittances regularly for more than 50 years, since my parents first arrived in our great country and settled, first, in Rochdale. She continues to receive the benefit of remittances. When I first visited her while I was growing up, one of the things that I noticed was that she lives in a very remote village in Pakistan that has no bank. I think that the nearest bank is at least 10 miles away. She is unbanked. There were only a few remitters, at least to begin with, many years ago, that could get money to my gran. I mention that only to show that, at a very personal level, I do understand this issue and how important it is in Britain and particularly to British individuals such as myself, who are from an ethnic minority background.

The sector plays a crucial role in supporting the economies of all the developing countries that have been mentioned today that receive these funds. We all want to see a healthy remittance sector, but we also want to see a legitimate remittance sector. Our banks and regulators have a real responsibility to ensure that they are not inadvertently facilitating any kind of criminal activity. That could be money laundering, drug trafficking or the financing of terrorism, some of which we have heard about today. All are activities that pose real threats not just to UK citizens, but to global security. Of course, there is a fine balance to be struck between managing those risks and ensuring that essential services are still available to families in the UK. I would like to reassure hon. Members that we are committed to getting the balance right. This afternoon, I will set out some of the steps that this Government are taking towards ensuring a robust and sustainable remittance sector.

We recognise the role of Government in effectively supervising and regulating the money service business sector to help to drive up standards in this area. Last year, we strengthened the Money Laundering Regulations 2007, with a particular view to helping Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, as the relevant regulator, to strengthen its supervision, and HMRC is making every attempt to close down those businesses that are engaging in criminal activity and tarnishing the sector as a whole. Last month, it worked closely with the Metropolitan police and the Serious Organised Crime Agency to target organised criminals operating in this sector. However, in the longer term, proactive solutions must be found to avoid the need for such action in the future. The best way to achieve that is by creating a remittance sector in the UK that is trusted by all stakeholders and with which all banks can feel confident about doing business.

I have spoken with several of the leading high street banks—including, of course, Barclays—during the last few days. Some have expressed important concerns on the structural features of the sector and particularly on the issues surrounding transparency. I can confirm that I am looking urgently into what measures the Government might be able to take, and speaking to all relevant authorities to look at what options are open to us to try to allay as far as possible some of the concerns that those banks have expressed.

Separately, work has already been under way for some time through Project Quaver, led by HMRC and SOCA, on developing a healthy and sustainable sector. That project brings together the Government, law enforcement, regulators and industry to help banks and money service businesses to understand the risks that come from abuse of this sector, and to strengthen their compliance.

However, we recognise that having effective anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing procedures in place is not only essential to preventing, detecting and disrupting illicit finance. They provide the confidence for foreign investment and stable economic growth in many of the developing countries that have been mentioned. Developing effective regimes requires effective co-operation between the public sector and the private sector to understand and mitigate the threat of illicit finance, so under the UK presidency, the G8 has this year committed to launch a public-private sector dialogue on illicit finance, which will be held in Namibia in September of this year. That will not only help to tackle the issue of robust regimes in the traditional financial sectors, but address the opportunities and the risks posed by new payment methods, such as mobile money services. By bringing together private sector experts from around the world and Ministers and officials, the dialogue will be a unique opportunity to leverage expertise and drive reform that meets the specific needs that countries face, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa.

[Stephen Doughty]

rose—

[Kevin Brennan]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

I thank the Minister for being very generous about interventions. Again, I am very interested to hear what is going on at international level—dialogues and so on at the G8—but, echoing the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), we want to know what will happen in the next couple of weeks, given what is happening on 12 August. I do not want to betray any confidences, but Barclays was offering a meeting at its headquarters. Will we see a meeting of the key stakeholders—the banks, the non-governmental organisations and the diaspora communities—in the next fortnight?

[Sajid Javid]

I think that both hon. Gentlemen knew that I was coming to this issue next. I am referring to the immediate effect of Barclays’ decision. I recognise that some of the things that I mentioned a moment ago, although very welcome, are long-term projects. In the short term, the Government are committed to doing everything that they can to minimise the impact on individuals and businesses in the UK of any immediate changes in this market. I understand that businesses in this sector will face challenges. That is why we are committed to working with the banks, trade associations and money service businesses to try to find solutions that do not mean extensive business closures. However, the truth is that we do not know what the full impact of some of the decisions that have been discussed here today will be. We are monitoring the situation and will continue to do so in the course of the next few months.

Finance Bill

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Catherine McKinnell]

Well, I am pleased that the Minister is engaging with the need to review his own Government’s spending plans so they can take stock of precisely how those plans are working to resolve the unemployment situation and the lack of economic growth in this country. If the Minister could provide some reassurance that his Government are focused on reducing the debt, that would be very helpful.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend was speaking about the spending review’s failure in respect of living standards, and that is crucial. Real wages are set to fall by 2.4% over this Parliament, meaning people will be worse off at the end of the Parliament than they were when this Government came to office. That is the real story: it is a spiral of lower wages, lower living standards and lower tax receipts, and then ultimately more debt, more borrowing and a higher benefits bill. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is the spiral we are in?

[Catherine McKinnell]

Yes. My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, and it highlights the complacency of this Government. They feel it is a case of “job done” as some jobs have been created in the private sector, but ultimately the reality families are facing is that they cannot afford to pay for heating and buy food and what they need for their children and their families because living standards are being so desperately squeezed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine McKinnell]

That is another absolute failure in terms of the promises made by this Government that are simply not delivered. I hope that the Government will agree to undertake the review we are calling for today and that the House will, by voting with us, acknowledge that the economic plan the Government have so far pursued is failing and that they need to examine what last week’s spending review will deliver. I hope that there will be a recognition that they promised to rebuild, again as part of a “priority” programme, 261 schools and only one project has begun. It is devastating, not just for the children who need those new schools, but for the communities that need those jobs and the small businesses that need to supply the construction industry, which, as we know, has been brought to its knees by this Government’s failure to invest in infrastructure. Instead of investing in affordable homes, improving transport links and repairing Britain’s broken roads, which would give the country the short, medium and long-term returns that we are looking for, the Government are cutting capital spending in 2015. Announcing infrastructure projects for two years’ time will not create a single job today.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is making a crucial point about the impact on jobs. I had hoped that the spending review would consider jobs in the construction sector, where 84,000 jobs have been lost since the Tory Government came to power—that is, between the second quarter of 2010 and the first quarter of 2013. That is a shocking figure: 84,000 jobs have been lost when we should have seen 84,000 jobs created in the construction sector.

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend makes his point very powerfully. It is a fact that a number of jobs have been lost in the construction industry that should have been created if the Government were taking not just our advice but that of the IMF and investing in infrastructure projects now. If they did so, tax receipts would improve this year and next year and we would not have to plan for failure in 2015, which is what the Chancellor came here to do last week.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Leslie]

Dare I say that my hon. Friend knows the answer to his question? I do not think it will make a blind bit of difference to the success—or otherwise—of the investment management community, and I have seen no evidence from the Government that this measure is the thing that will transform the economy at this time, or make a massive difference to jobs and growth in society at large.

Let me put this in context: £150 million is a lot of money. In fact, it is exactly the same amount that the Chancellor cut from young mothers when he abolished the health in pregnancy grant—hon. Members will remember from the Chancellor’s first Budget that the health in pregnancy grant was given to mums-to-be to ensure they ate healthily and had a little help at that time. That was slashed; that had to go because £150 million had to be saved, yet in next year’s Budget the Chancellor is introducing a £150 million tax cut for the investment management community. That is about the same amount of money as was cut from the child tax credit supplement for one and two-year-olds in that original Budget. In fact, it is about the same amount of money that the pasty tax and the caravan tax were supposed to save—I am sure the Minister will remember that from the ill-fated omnishambles 2012 Budget. All the hassle that fell on the Chancellor’s shoulders at that time was due to saving £150 million. In that context, this is a strange choice by a strange Chancellor.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is making a strong point. Does he, like me, think that people will be bemused by this measure when the Government voted recently against a reasonable motion on an international financial transaction tax? When people see those two things, as well as the bedroom tax, what will they make of this Government?

Finance Bill

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sheila Gilmore]

And Scottish farmers, I am sure, and so on.

A mansion tax—I think my colleagues on the Front Benches would agree—is about residential property, not business property, which is already taxed in various ways. Obviously, a whole raft of taxes are appropriate for businesses, and that would be the best way to deal with the issue, rather than a mansion tax. If a mansion tax is a way of ensuring that we can appropriately tax wealth, we should consider it very seriously, given that it is probably a better basis for taxation than income, which people can move around—I have yet to see a house be dragged offshore. That may not be impossible, but in this country we generally do not put houses on wheels and move them, unlike in the United States—at least, so we see in the movies. A mansion tax would be a way to help the low-paid, through the introduction of the 10p rate.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend has made a strong speech so far, but is she—as I am—completely bemused by the position of the Liberal Democrats? In February, the Deputy Prime Minister said:

“My approach is simple: taxes on mansions; tax cuts for millions.”

It is more like no taxes on mansions and tax cuts for millionaires.

[Sheila Gilmore]

I suspect that that policy got lost in the negotiations that are part of a coalition. I have also heard the Deputy Prime Minister say that he would flex his muscles on all kinds of issues, the most recent being the number of children that could be cared for. The Deputy Prime Minister was keen to tell the country that he had flexed his party’s muscles and prevented that change from being introduced, but he has not flexed them on the mansion tax. Either it is possible for the junior partner in the coalition to flex its muscles successfully or it is not. There are other areas in which the Liberal Democrats have seemingly not thought it necessary to use the muscle they claim to have.

In relation to the mansion tax we will doubtless hear a lot about income-poor people—how will they be able to afford it? Would we expect them to sell their homes or move elsewhere? We cannot have that debate, however, without talking about the bedroom tax. A constituent of mine is 59 and has recently been made redundant. She is looking for work, but with a retirement age of 63 she will not easily find another job. She has been living in her home for 18 years, but it has a relatively small single second bedroom. The kitchen opens off the living room, which militates against taking in a lodger—one of the things people have been advised to do. Her current income is less than £72 a week. From that, she is paying £14 towards her rent as a result of the bedroom tax. That is a significant proportion of her income.

My constituent does not want to leave her home, as she has put a lot of effort into it and she lived there with her husband until she was widowed about four years ago. She has looked into the possibility of moving, but there is a shortage of one-bedroom homes in the city. Two weeks ago, 23 one-bedroom homes were advertised—the total from all the social landlords in the city, the housing associations and the council. Those homes attracted varying numbers of applications, but the lowest was 45 and the highest was 370. Four had more than 200, and another seven had between 100 and 200. My constituent’s prospects of being rehoused are, therefore, not great. Our city also has a large number of people waiting for this kind of housing who are living in expensive private rented housing or temporary accommodation that costs far more in housing benefit than the rent being charged to my constituent.

People like my constituent are being asked to make some serious sacrifices, and they do not have an easy choice. It is not easy to downsize, because there is nowhere to downsize to—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

The reasoning remains what it always was. HMRC has a large number of specialists on the UK tax system, and the UK tax system does not apply in other countries. Assessing whether a particular arrangement constituted tax avoidance in Tanzania, to pluck a country at random, would require a detailed understanding of the Tanzanian tax system. If the hon. Lady is asking whether we could train up somebody to learn an awful lot about the Tanzanian tax system, in theory that could be done, but it would be a better use of HMRC resources to help train the Tanzanian tax authority, so that it was in a better position to collect the taxes that are due. Indeed, that is exactly what we do; we provide a lot of support to the Tanzanian tax authority.

[Stephen Doughty]

The Minister will recall our debates on this issue in Committee. I am afraid that I still do not buy the arguments that he makes, just as I did not buy them then. Does he not understand the disappointment felt by the many campaigners on this issue? The Enough Food for Everyone If campaign said that Treasury Ministers’ refusal to consider the amendments put forward in Committee, which are very similar to new clause 12, was shocking. There is a real contrast between the Prime Minister’s big words at the G8 and what is happening in practice. This is a reasonable new clause, and campaigners just do not buy the arguments.

[Mr Gauke]

It is not just me saying this, and there is no desire to be unhelpful. Indeed, the Government’s record on building up tax capacity in developing countries is very good, with regard to providing them with technical assistance so that they gain a better understanding of the tax that they could collect. Indeed, we are providing support to help developing countries to make greater use of the new information exchange positions.

I will again quote Richard Murphy, whose views on these matters tend to differ profoundly from mine. He works closely with the non-governmental organisations, and he has said:

“I admit, I have never seen how extending DOTAS internationally could work. I can’t see how HMRC could know if they got accurate data, or none at all and as such can see no way such a scheme could be enforced in which case I admit I can’t see how it could ever be workable.”

I do not often pray in aid Richard Murphy, but he makes that point not from any desire to limit the help that we provide to developing countries but as a matter of sheer practicality. He makes a reasonable point.

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Government have trumpeted their commitment to 0.7% of GDP being spent on international aid, but they stand by and say that they can do little to assist in ensuring that that is not swallowed up by the three times more that is lost in tax avoidance every year. If they could assist, that would be a win-win situation for developing countries and the UK.

In new clause 12, we call for additional transparency in what the Exchequer Secretary admitted are four fairly reasonable requests. Those requests are well considered and are made in all sincerity. We want to be able to bring in additional tax receipts for the UK Treasury, but we also want to use our powers and information, and the additional intelligence that we would gain from transparency, not only to benefit the lives of UK citizens, for whom public resources could be funded through the tax receipts, but to support developing countries.

My hon. Friend makes the point that it is a win-win situation, and we very much agree. That is why we urge hon. Members to support our new clause. As I have said, it is completely reasonable and I cannot see why Government Members would oppose it, particularly Liberal Democrat Members—I am pleased that the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) is in the Chamber to hear this debate on an issue that I know the Liberal Democrats feel strongly about. Indeed, at their recent party conference they held a debate in support of some of the measures we are proposing. I therefore see no reason why Liberal Democrat Members will not vote with the Opposition in the Lobby this evening.

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend has been making strong points. Does she agree that in a way this debate exemplifies the difference between settling for charity and seeking justice on some of these issues? I would not say that the Government are not charitable. They continue to give aid; we continue to give aid—that is charity and people on both sides of the House do charitable work. However, when it comes to achieving justice on these issues, and getting a grip of the problems and understanding why they are there in the first place, we often find the Government wanting.

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend makes the important point that we are talking about justice. We talk about justice and fairness in relation to developing countries when considering how a disclosure of a tax avoidance scheme, and the information we receive from it, might be used to support developing countries and international justice on that level. However, it is also about justice for UK taxpayers. We must ensure that companies that engage in the sort of tax avoidance activities that so rile members of the public, and should concern every Member of the House, do not have a competitive advantage over companies that do not engage in such activities, which may mean that their business ends up suffering.

That is what we are discussing and the amendments should not be just a step in the right direction. The announcements that came out of Lough Erne and the G8 agreement contained warm words and welcome sentiments, but there is an opportunity for the Government to start walking the walk, not just talking the talk. They must make not only warm statements but legislative changes that will move the issue forward and show the leadership that the UK should be showing. That would give us greater leverage when debating such matters on an international scale.

The Prime Minister rightly put tackling tax avoidance and evasion at the top of the G8 agenda, and Government Members now have the opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to delivering in that area. What came out of the G8 does not have to remain a statement of intent; it could become a reality for the UK today. We believe that our amendments would help the UK to take genuine action towards securing tax transparency and the fairness the world needs in the 21st century. I therefore urge all Members on both sides of the House to back our suggestions for how the Government can put their money where their mouth is on this issue.

Financial Transaction Tax and Economic and Monetary Union

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

GDP is a measure of productivity, but it is not a measure of wealth, and it is not a measure of growth in the real economy. Derivative volumes have ballooned out of all proportion to the growth of the real economy. Some would say that that says much more about rent extraction by the financial services sector than a real world story of genuine and proportionate insurance.

When the global financial crisis hit in 2008, many banks were weakened precisely by their exposure to derivatives. In fact, Warren Buffett has described them as financial weapons of mass destruction. They have traded those derivatives at ever-increasing speeds. It is the institutions that are heavily involved in high value, high frequency derivative trading that would feel the biggest impact of the FTT, and whose riskier activities the rest of society has a vested interest in reining in. That is precisely the point that my hon. Friend the shadow Minister made. The public want to see these activities curtailed to reasonable levels such that they reflect the genuine risks of economic growth.

It was Avinash Persaud, the former J.P. Morgan and UBS executive, who in the Financial Times recently commented:

“this small tax on churning would limit some of these activities and help to refocus the financial system on to its purpose of the safe financing of real economic activity.”

That is a good thing and we should be open to the idea of exploring it with our colleagues across the water.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend is making some strong points. Does he recall Lord Turner describing some of the activities to which he is referring as “socially useless capitalism”?

[Barry Gardiner]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The public want politicians to get back to focusing on the real productive economy. They are bewildered, frankly, by the spin-off of derivatives. I was on the floor of the New York stock exchange when it all went belly up on 24 September 2008, and I remember discussing what all the turmoil was about with members of the Senate Banking Committee in Washington a couple of days later. When I returned to the UK, it was clear that people could not understand how things had become so far divorced from reality.

The hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), who is unfortunately no longer in her place, made the point that an FTT on derivatives might hit pensioners. I do not think that is a convincing argument. Pension funds are obviously vital to our economy, and they buy derivatives to insure against the risk of poor performance by their portfolio, but those funds are much more likely to hold their derivatives until they reach maturity, which means that they would have to pay only a tiny amount under an FTT because their trades are far fewer—the very opposite of the type of short-term, superfast trading that grew in the run-up to the crisis. Most of the burden of paying the FTT would fall on superfast traders and speculative exchanges, which are very far removed from the real economy.

I want to introduce another note into the debate before sitting down. Our Government, along with many other participants in the United Nations framework convention on climate change, have stated that there will be a green climate fund. That fund will have to raise $100 billion each year by 2020—that is the minimum that the UK and our European negotiating partners think will be necessary to help developing countries increase their own economies, reduce poverty and offset the impact of dangerous climate change. The FTT would be an extraordinarily adept mechanism for raising those funds, which are vital to real growth in our economy. If we look at the UK economy, we will find that only 6% relates to the green economy, yet that 6% provided 30% of our economic growth in 2011. I would like to see the funds from the FTT predicated to use in the green climate fund.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

There is no case for a financial transaction tax. It would be enormously destructive of this country’s financial system. The cascade effect to which the Minister referred is at the heart of this. When things are being traded dozens of times a day, what starts off as a little tax suddenly becomes a very big tax. The hon. Gentleman conjures £10 billion out of the air. We cannot withdraw £10 billion from the economy without it having an economic effect and without it being paid for by somebody.

[Stephen Doughty]

The hon. Gentleman is making a dramatic and scaremongering speech. If the FTT is such a terrible idea, I wonder why people such as Bill Gates, George Soros and, indeed, 1,000 of the world’s leading economists, backed the principle of such a tax.

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I seem to remember that 365 economists said that Margaret Thatcher had got it wrong in 1981, but one great and noble Prime Minister had got it right and 365 economists were flawed in their thinking. I would back the British politician against a collection of academic economists living in an ethereal world.

A financial transaction tax would ultimately be paid for by the British people through higher housing costs, lower pensions and possibly through higher Government borrowing costs leading to higher overall taxation. Of course the Labour party wants higher taxation, because that is what it has always been in favour of—more taxes, more spending and a worse economy.

I would now like to move on to the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), because they, too, are extremely important. They relate to the European Union’s ambitions to become a superstate based on the euro. I accept that we are outside the euro, but that is not entirely a protection from the development of the EU along the lines of a single state with a single Government based in Brussels. Of the papers we are considering today, there is one from the European Commission showing that it wants within 18 months to have a eurozone seat on the International Monetary Fund’s board, that it wants within five years to co-ordinate eurozone tax and employment policies, and that it wants a political union with adequate pooling of sovereignty with central budgets as its own fiscal capacity and a means of imposing budgetary and economic decisions on its members. That means a single Treasury and a single fiscal union.

The danger for us is that, as the European Union obtains more powers for the eurozone, our association with it will become very different from the present one, and one in which we have little influence over what happens because we are outside it. Alternatively, we could get dragged into the arrangements because, as our experience of the European Union shows, our opt-outs will ultimately expire. We have seen that happening with the social chapter, and we will see it again next year with the decision on title V of the Lisbon treaty. We should therefore be very careful about the ambitions of the European Commission in relation to this single government for the eurozone.

We should also be cautious about what the President of the European Union, Mr van Rompuy, has to say. He has published a paper lauding the success of the euro and all that it has done. It states:

“The euro area needs stronger mechanisms…so that Member States can reap the full benefits of the EMU.”

That is a fascinating way of phrasing it: “the full benefits”. After all the other benefits that they have so far received, there are further benefits to give the member states if only they will join a tighter system of governance. I wonder whether the unemployed Greek youths have noticed all the benefits that they have received from this wonderful beneficent eurozone.

Mr van Rompuy has also been kind enough to say:

“‘More Europe’ is not an end in itself, but rather a means for serving the citizens of Europe and increasing their prosperity.”

I am proud to say that I am a subject of Her Majesty, and not a citizen of Europe. The idea that we need more Europe to benefit the citizens of the member states is palpably false. The more Europe we have had, the worse the situation has become. The more powers that have accreted to Europe, the more bureaucratic, less democratic and worse run has become the whole system of the European Union. The economies of the European Union have suffered because of the euro.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Wednesday 17th April 2013 Commons Chamber

That review, called for by our amendment 6, should of course include considering how the Government would take steps to notify developing countries’ tax authorities of tax schemes that have been identified, to assist in the recovery of that tax. I am quite sure that that proposal will at least have the support of Liberal Democrat Members on the Government Benches, given that their party’s spring conference passed a motion effectively calling for the same measure just last month. [Interruption.]

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend has made very strong arguments. Will she join me in commending the work of organisations such as ActionAid, Global Witness and the Tax Justice Network, who have done excellent work in exposing a number of examples of corporate tax avoidance in countries such as Zambia, particularly resource-rich countries, and the devastating impacts those are having? If we did not have those stories out there, we would not be aware of the scale of the avoidance that is going on and the impact that it is having in those very poor countries.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, which is powerful in itself, but very much reinforces the argument that we on the Front Bench are making today: we have the means within our grasp to make a difference to that situation. I hope that the Minister will provide some reassurance today, and that we shall get some Liberal Democrat support for our amendments, which seek to make a real difference on the ground. [Interruption.]

Returning once again to an amendment tabled by the Opposition last year—and I might say amendments tabled by Liberal Democrat representatives last year but which were withdrawn at the last minute—we believe that changes to the controlled foreign company rules introduced by the Finance Act 2012 should be properly monitored for their impact on developing countries. Many charities have been concerned that the CFC rule changes will make it easier for UK companies to avoid paying tax in developing countries in which they own subsidiaries. While the Government have estimated the potential loss to developing countries at £1 billion, which one would think would be enough, ActionAid believed it could be as high as £4 billion a year. So what we really need is for the Government to undertake a proper assessment of the impact of the changes on the overall tax take of developing countries since last year, and our amendment asks for that to take place.

In conclusion, we will support the Government’s legislation, brought forward today, to introduce a GAAR. However, we believe, along with my right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher), who has tabled his amendments as a suggested alternative to the GAAR, that the Government’s GAAR has many potential flaws.

[Catherine McKinnell]

We support our amendments that we have tabled, and I have presented very clearly the reasons why we support them. I will go on to say why. We support the GAAR and we welcome its being put in place, but we want to see how effective it will be and we will continue to monitor it. We hope that the Government will accept our proposal to come back and report on progress within two years, so that we can continue to monitor its effectiveness and rectify, hopefully, some of the flaws that we see will hinder its effectiveness in tackling this problem. So we call on all—

[Stephen Doughty]

In terms of who will be supporting which amendments, was my hon. Friend not surprised a moment ago to hear comments from a sedentary position from one of the Liberal Democrat Ministers—in fact an International Development Minister—saying that she doubted their support? Having read previous Liberal Democrat policies on this area, I have to say that over the years they have been fairly progressive and very extensive. Was my hon. Friend not surprised to hear those comments?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I am very shocked to hear of those comments. I missed them at the time. If the Minister wants to explain her position or the Liberal Democrat Front-Bench position on these amendments, I will be glad to hear it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Doughty]

The right hon. Gentleman made a significant point about the importance of supporting developing countries in developing their tax systems and revenue collection capacity. Was he not surprised, as I was, to see the 8% underspend in the Department for International Development budget this year, given that the Department has given significant support to such projects in the past? Perhaps less support will be going to such activity in future because of that underspend.

[Andrew Stunell]

In all honesty, I was not surprised because that rule has always been in place. I do not have to hand figures on any similar underspend before 2010, but if I did I am absolutely certain that the Chancellor of the time would have repossessed it. That is part of the system of central Government control of our expenditure. I can understand that the hon. Gentleman is perhaps not in favour of strict control of public expenditure, but it is important that we do not lose sight of the overall objectives.

I shall conclude. I very much support the Government’s direction of travel on the issue. I am delighted that the general anti-avoidance rule is coming into place. The Government will know that I support the IF campaign and therefore I do not think they have gone far enough or yet fast enough. I look forward to the Minister’s giving me some words of comfort when he replies.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Stephen Doughty Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Andy Sawford]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The story of the decision to close the steelworks in Corby in 1980 has now come full circle and been shown to be short-sighted, given that the steel is now coming from Port Talbot. Some of Tata’s steel is now coming from abroad, because it is so difficult for it to compete in this country. I called for measures in the Budget—I spoke about this in a recent Adjournment debate—to support the steel industry in the UK in order to mitigate the impact of high energy prices around the world. The contrast between this country and others is stark and instructive of this Government’s approach. Germany, where the economy is growing—it now has more than 3% growth—has a £5 billion mitigation package for energy intensive companies, while this country has a £250 million mitigation package and we are not even clear about its details.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend led a strong Adjournment debate recently and I was proud to join him in it. Does he not find it extraordinary that the Business Secretary admitted in the New Statesman in March that

“the fiscal consolidation achieved through reduced capital spending has had economic consequences”?

The Government’s lack of coherence is extraordinary: one side is arguing, like us, for increased infrastructure spending, while the others are doing little about it.

[Andy Sawford]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I will say more later about capital spending in this country.

It was not just Tata Steel that shed jobs in my constituency; Argos also did so and Aquascutum closed. Those companies were affected because nobody had any confidence and nobody was spending. That happened because the Government chose—they made a deliberate political choice—to talk our economy down. It was a political strategy without any real regard for the damaging effects it would have on our economy. When they got hold of the levers of power, they revealed their real purpose: an ideological attack on the state and on the poorest in our society.

The accumulative impact of the Government’s Budgets, including this one, will have an effect on individuals. The Institute for Fiscal Studies tells us that the average family will be £891 a year worse off, but that figure tells only part of the story. The other part is how the cuts to services will impact on all residents, particularly those who most rely on public services. Buses have been cut in my constituency, the ambulance station in Corby is due to close and children’s services, particularly for those with special educational needs and their families, have been decimated. Respite care has been lost and there are fewer police and police community support officers than when this Government came to office, and there is a real threat of cuts to my local hospital. The huge impact of those cuts to services on families means that they are worse off.

The Government’s policies have impacted on those who most needed their help—the children plunged into poverty and the disabled people hit by the bedroom tax and the pernicious Atos reviews that this Government have failed to intervene in and stop. Those out of work and unemployed in my constituency have been stigmatised by this Government and left desperately chasing the few vacancies that exist.

The Government say that there are more people in work, but that is not true in my constituency. Moreover, what sorts of jobs are being created? They are part-time, low-paid jobs for underemployed people in my constituency —fragile employment for people working through agencies on zero-hour contracts and on the margins of the labour market, there to be exploited. And the Government say that that is okay.