Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I am very grateful for the opportunity the House has given me to bring forward this debate. All I can say is, here we go again: Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council back on the Floor of the House.

Before I turn to my broader critique, I do want to talk about the positives, because there is positive news about Sandwell. Despite the line parroted by the failing Labour administration in Sandwell about this £105 million it has magicked up that it does not have, in fact the Government has helped Sandwell with nearly £411 million of investment since 2019, enabling the communities that form the six towns in Sandwell to realise their potential and opportunities. We have seen that in £65 million-worth of town deals, with £22.5 million for Tipton town centre in my constituency, £20 million announced for Wednesbury Friar Park and some £4 million on a heritage action zone in Wednesbury town centre.

However, the focus of the debate is the governance of Sandwell and, in particular, the governance around such schemes. At times, I share the frustration of my constituents, who are not seeing the council spend the capital investment that is coming through. That begs the question of why. Surely it is in the council’s interest to get this off the ground and to spend the investment now, and to see the economic and social benefits for our towns come to fruition. I share the frustration of my constituents over the governance of these programmes, because that simply is not happening. That is a damning indictment of a failing administration.

I want to touch briefly on the community. I have been very critical of the council in my time in this place, and rightly so. It is often referred to out there as “bent Labour Sandwell”, “soviet Sandwell” or “the socialist republic of Sandwell”, but despite the failings of the crackpot Labour administration, the communities that I represent have real heart and this has built a real sense of community campaigning. We have seen that come to fruition often when fighting back against the bizarre governance of Sandwell, for instance through our successful campaign to save Walker Grange care home in Tipton in my constituency. Labour-led Sandwell council argued that it was going to turf out the residents, whose ages ranged from 70 up to 100, because it could not afford the costs. When our action forced transparency on that, we found that Sandwell had underspent its budget by £2 million. Again, when we put Sandwell under scrutiny, we find that we cannot trust the answers we get back from it.

The spirit of community campaigning was also shown through the community-led campaign that saved Tipton police station. That is obviously not under the direct control of Sandwell council but it was interesting to see the Sandwell Labour leadership rubbish the campaign that the community had led alongside myself and others, and it was even more interesting that our police and crime commissioner attempted to rubbish that campaign. He is the same PCC who is using public funds to try to launch a judicial review against the Government’s decision to merge the Mayor and the PCC. I hope my hon. Friend the Minister will relay to colleagues that it would be good if, when the PCC loses that case, he is made to refund out of his personal funds the money he has wasted on this ridiculous court action.

Let us turn to the heart of this debate, which is Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council and the stuff it has done. I could talk about a litany of things. I could talk about the special educational needs transport contract that went from having 19 providers down to two—a £22.5 million contract doled out to a friend of the disgraced former Labour leader. When parents challenged the council on that, they were told, “Shut up or you will lose your transport.” They were told that if they criticised the council on social media, their children, some of the most vulnerable in the borough, would not be able to access the education that they need. We then had the disgraceful situation some 12 months ago of a clause being put in social tenants’ contracts, saying that if they criticised the council on social media they could face disciplinary action up to eviction. It would be a parody if it were not true. It is the socialist nightmare.

We have seen, once again, that child social services requires improvement. That is an improvement from inadequate. I have to ask the comrades at Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council why they think that kids in my constituency do not deserve the same life chances as everyone else. To me, their failure in this space is indicative of the disdain they clearly have for the communities they represent.

I could talk about the failures on housing. I have been working recently, as many colleagues have, on rogue developers. We had an incident recently with two estates in my constituency, where the council, in dealing with a relatively new, untested developer, decided not to follow its usual course of using advance payment codes—in other words, getting bonds ahead of time, so that were the developer to go bankrupt, the council could access capital funds to do such things as pave the roads and sort out the lighting. The council decided, for some unexplained reason, not to do that. When I challenged officers at the cabinet petitions committee, they could not say why they had not done that. The political leadership of the council simply said, “Other boroughs don’t do it, so why would we?” There is a complete and utter lack of accountability from these people, and they have complete disdain for the communities they represent.

I must touch on the waste contract and the campaign I have launched to keep our weekly bin collections. Sandwell council has entered into a £650 million, 25-year contract—yes, that is right—for bin collections. The council’s proposal is to take collections fortnightly, predicated on the basis that it would somehow save money, but it is tied into this contract. When it has signed on the dotted line for 25 years, I struggle to see how that move would save any money. As part of that, we saw a strike last year run by Sandwell Labour’s paymasters in the GMB that saw flying pickets and aggressive tactics. That was only stopped because the community effectively rose up, counter-picketed and counter-protested, and showed Sandwell Labour’s paymasters that they were not going to tolerate this anymore, because why should they? All they see is rising taxes, failing services and falling standards.

The retort we hear from the Labour administration in Sandwell is that the situation is due to 14 years of the Tories and Tory cuts. That is the line Labour constantly likes to use. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister hears that often from Labour colleagues in local government. I simply say this in response: the Labour party has led Sandwell council for 50 years—half a century—under Governments of all persuasions and all colours, yet people’s lives have got worse.

If you want to know why your kid cannot access a decent school, do not look here; ask Sandwell Labour. If you want to know why your streets are not safe at night, ask Sandwell Labour why it is closing your police stations. If you want to know why you cannot get your rubbish collected, ask Sandwell Labour. If you want to know why the services you pay for are not adequate, ask Sandwell Labour. It has had the cash, the investment and the resources. The point is that it cannot be trusted to run services in our communities properly.

This issue came to a head in March 2022 with the intervention by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. He made the right decision to call in the commissioners. There has been progress since, and I have been pleased recently by the engagement of my hon. Friend the Minister—he has taken a real interest in Sandwell. He is to be commended on how he has picked up this interesting brief quickly and fully, especially when there are councils like Sandwell.

It is such an indictment of 50 years of failure that we are still the eighth most deprived borough in the country. It is as if the Labour party in Sandwell takes pride in that. It takes pride in the fact that standards are dropping, and it offers no reason for that or alternatives on how to fix it. It seems to revel in it. It blows my mind how anyone in a position of authority—particularly elected authority—could do that when they have stewardship over the great communities of the Black Country. As I said in my maiden speech, these people are grafters and fighters. They deserve so much better than this shambles, yet time and again we see these people who claim to be representatives of working people—that is the biggest joke that any of us has ever heard—somehow revelling in the fact that standards are falling and things are not as they seem.

[Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con)]

My hon. Friend has a fantastic set of communities in his constituency, as I do in Wolverhampton North East. We share similar problems in the Black Country. Wolverhampton has, similarly, had 50 years of Labour administrations that like to blame Conservative Governments for their failure, but when an authority is the worst in something and every other authority is under the same Conservative Government, ultimately it is time to take responsibility.

Does my hon. Friend share my concern that although tens of millions of pounds of investment are coming into our constituencies from this caring, levelling-up Conservative Government, we are not seeing the results, and our constituents are not feeling the benefits? I secured £3 million of high street regeneration funding for Wednesfield—he knows it well and has visited it with me—but nearly three years later my Labour council has not put forward a plan on paper. I am sure that he has similar instances.

[Shaun Bailey]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She is a doughty champion for the people of Wednesfield, Bushbury and the rest of her constituency. I think she shares the concern that it feels like there is some running down of the clock. It feels like the officers can see the clock ticking and do not want recognition to be given to anywhere else.

I will say that, particularly since new faces have appeared among the officers at Sandwell council, it seems to be more on top of this, but there is still the concern that the political leadership of these authorities see some sort of win from these things not materialising. It is absolutely crazy. As I said, half a billion pounds has been put into my borough, and yet the narrative seems to be about Tory cuts. I am sure it is the same in the great city of Wolverhampton. The narrative will be, “It’s 14 years of the Tories,” but it is not; it is 50 years of Labour turning its back on these communities.

I have a solution for my hon. Friend the Minister, which was coined in the campaign that has been launched with such enthusiasm: scrap Sandwell. Sandwell is an artificial construction of the Ted Heath reforms of the 1970s, which brought together six very different towns in the Black Country. I appreciate that he will not be able to stand at the Dispatch Box today and say yes to that, much as I would be over the moon for him to do so. There is always middle ground in how we empower our communities, but the truth is that Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council, and its political leadership in particular, has brought embarrassment to the communities I represent.

The retort that I have had, particularly from Labour politicians, has been, “Well, you’re talking the area down.” No. In the campaign that we launched in October, we had thousands of responses, and 80% of them said they do not recognise themselves as coming from Sandwell. If you come from Wednesbury, you come from Wednesbury. If you are from Tipton, you are from Tipton. If you are from Ocker Hill, you are from Ocker Hill. If you are from Great Bridge, you are from Great Bridge. If you are from Smethwick, you are from Smethwick. You are not from Sandwell. What is Sandwell? Sandwell is the name of the Franciscan priory from 1,000 years ago. It is not a place—well, it is a place, but it is a constructed place.

People are proud of their towns. I am proud that I live in Wednesbury, and I am proud of that town, mentioned in the Domesday Book 1,000 years ago. That is what people want to see. Of course, the real-life impact is that my towns in Tipton and Wednesbury have missed out because Sandwell council’s priorities have been in West Bromwich and Smethwick, all because the arbitrary thresholds have not been met because of the size of those towns.

Clearly, there are options to be explored, and I appreciate that we can utilise many mechanisms to ensure that the identity of these communities is respected, accentuated and brought to the fore. That is so important to my constituents. They are proud of where they come from and the heritage of their towns. They are fed up with this creation that has turned into a monster, leaving them without services.

We have had the ridiculous situation today where all the pay and display parking machines have been taken out of the car parks in Spring Head in Wednesbury. The council expects people to go online, not realising that most of the demographic who utilise that service are of an age where they are probably not digitally connected. I talk about governance; that is the kind of lunacy and idiotic ideas that come from that rabble. Yet they sit there and lord it as if they have been hard done by.

We need proactive government in our towns, whether through an empowered town council—there are examples of that in the west midlands—or through some other format. We need something that will safeguard our identity, and a local government structure that preserves and looks after the identity of my proud towns of Tipton and Wednesbury. It is as simple as that.

I am looking forward to the Minister’s visit to the Black Country, and I am sure he will visit my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson) on the way. Our proud Black Country towns have so much to offer. The governance at Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council has done nothing but bring embarrassment to those towns. It is not talking down those communities to highlight that. It is not talking down the communities to highlight that a Labour party that has governed that area for 50 years has been to the detriment of people, who have seen their services cut and their opportunities eradicated. But their aspirations have not been cut, because the people I represent are aspirational. They want to achieve, but they are blocked time and again by the Labour administration.

I wish to finalise my remarks with a quotation from history, which I hope the Minister will appreciate. As I prepared my comments, I was looking for something to sum up my thoughts on the governance situation at Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council. I am sure that those who have studied it will know where it comes from:

“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

My hon. Friend probably knows where that comes from: the declaration of independence 1776.

The security and the safeguarding of the future of these proud towns is at the heart of what I am here to do. They have had half a century of disservice by the shambolic Labour rabble, who have done nothing but try to eradicate their life chances and leave them worse off. That should never be the case. I look forward to hearing from my hon. Friend the Minister. I am so grateful for the time and effort he has put into Sandwell. He is committed to making sure we get this right. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East for her considered intervention. I thank the House and you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for hearing my comments. I made my constituents a promise when I was elected to this place that, after 50 years of feeling ignored, they would never be ignored again. I hope that in this speech, I have made sure that their voices are heard loud and clear.

Renters (Reform) Bill (Fifth sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st November 2023 Public Bill Committees

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle]

I totally take that point. I am talking specifically about the short-term problem.

On the all-party parliamentary group for renters and rental reform, we heard from Gemma Marshall, who every year has to look for a new house and has had to change her children’s school three times. She lives not in London, which is even worse, but in north Devon. This problem affects all parts of our country. We also heard from Amy Donovan, who does live in London, and equally has had to move numerous times, which has meant that she cannot commute to her job effectively and has had to move job.

This issue causes problems for the very foundations of society. On the Opposition Benches—and, I genuinely believe, on both sides of the House—we believe that strong societies are built with strong, stable families and communities from the ground up. To some extent, communities are built with bricks and mortar—with people being safe and secure where they are. That is why the clause is so important, but also why it is so important that it is implemented right now, because any delay will mean more mould on the walls for the Amys of the world and more new schools for the Gemmas and their children. Whether the wait is a year, two years or whenever the Minister has the whim to act—he has not laid out the conditions in which he will enact the clause—it is not acceptable for anyone.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I do not intend to detain the Committee for long. I congratulate the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown on his powerful contribution to the debate, which has inspired me to make a contribution.

I want to pick up on a point that the hon. Member made about the aims of the clause and the flexibility for tenants to leave their tenancies when they need to. That is welcome, and I welcome the clause. I also welcome what my hon. Friend the Minister is doing and congratulate him, because I have not yet had a chance to do so officially, on his elevation to his position and the work that he has done so far in this space. However, the aims of the clause need to go alongside a regulatory foundation. The Bill rightly builds that flexibility.

This has been an interesting debate; it has almost had two sides. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown spoke about the need for security, and not uprooting families from their community. I agree with that, and I think we all share the aim of building sustainable communities that enable people to put down roots. They need a home with security of tenure, but equally, a regulatory framework is needed if we are to meet the aim of enabling tenants to escape tenancies that are not working because, say, there is mould, or uninhabitable conditions.

I think quite often of the additional licensing schemes that were available to councils, particularly for houses in multiple occupation. The fights that I have had with my local authority to implement those schemes have driven me to the point of madness at times. Authorities—particularly mine, in Sandwell—have the expertise, in many ways. My authority has admitted to me that it could do that. We need a localised, driven regulatory system.

I think we would all agree that landlords are, broadly, good actors. They want to offer decent, habitable homes, and to have people in them for the long term. That benefits the landlord, because they then get emotional and moral investment in the property, and from a long-term, sustainability perspective it of course makes sense to have that. We do not want to broadbrush the sector in general. However, clearly there are bad actors. We all know about them from our postbags; I certainly see them in the area that I represent. We need a framework that deals with the issues. My hon. Friend the Minister and I have had many positive discussions on this subject, and I know that he is committed to it. The framework should be locally driven, in many respects—I know his commitment to localism—and should enable us to catch these people and drive down the problem.

I fully support what clause 1 does. When a tenant needs to get out because the tenancy is frankly not working and puts them in a dangerous situation, getting out is absolutely the right thing to do.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle]

The hon. Member mentions selective licensing, which is important. Do we need to review the way that authorities apply for selective licensing? Should there be an assumption that they should have selective licensing for all properties, rather than their having to provide evidence for a license? Many shy away from doing that.

[Shaun Bailey]

To be honest, I probably want a comprehensive selective system. There are already structures and expertise that would enable us to have that. The hon. Gentleman and I have probably had similar experiences with constituency casework. Something like that could be preventive. I am not saying that the issues we have talked about would not still present themselves—let us face it: they probably always will—but if we can mitigate them, that is what we need to do.

I welcome the clause for a variety of reasons that Members from across the Committee have touched on. It is welcome that it enables tenants to leave more expeditiously, but I say to my hon. Friend the Minister that we need to continue the conversation. The Bill is part of a broader conversation about how we ensure that we do not even get to the point at which the measures are needed, because we have habitable homes, people have somewhere to live safely, and they do not have to fall back on the provisions all the time just to keep themselves safe. The clause is absolutely the right way forward. My hon. Friend the Minister can see that there is support for it from across the Committee. I thank him for hearing me out.

[Siobhain McDonagh]

I ask the Minister to consider the law of unintended consequences. If the Government delay implementation of the clauses that end section 21 evictions, they could find that landlords who are worried about their ability to evict tenants or have choices will rush for a clause 21 eviction, because they know that at some point section 21 evictions will be ended. The longer it takes the courts to be reformed, in whatever undisclosed way we are considering, the greater that concern will be.

As I said, I see a lot of older long-term assured shorthold tenants being evicted, their landlord rushing them toward the door because they do not want a tenant who has limited means of paying increased rent in the future, and because they are concerned about the news that it will be difficult to evict anyone. The rush for the door is distressing for the people involved, but has the knock-on effect of causing huge problems for local authorities attempting to assist people who are in priority need in terms of homelessness. We are all seeing many more people than usual being evicted via section 21. That has enormous consequences in so many ways.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Pennycook]

Clause 3 amends the grounds for possession in schedule 2 to the 1988 Act, by means of the changes set out in schedule 1 to the Bill, which we will debate separately later today. Taken together, amendments 145, 146 and 150 would extend “greater hardship” provisions to three of the mandatory grounds set out in amended schedule 2 to the 1988 Act, namely grounds 1, 1A and 6A.

Ideally, we would have debated these amendments as the last amendments to clause 3, because they are very much our fall-back position if we cannot convince the Government to accept the other changes that we propose to the clause. In due course, we will debate our concerns about several of the revised or new possession grounds provided for by the Bill that can still be fairly categorised as de facto “no fault”. These include grounds 1, 1A and 6A.

In cases where a landlord has proved a discretionary possession ground, a judge must decide whether it is reasonable to make the possession order. In reaching their decision, a judge can consider not just the reason for the possession claim, but anything relevant to the case, including the tenant’s conduct and the likely consequences of eviction for the individual or individuals in question. They can also consider whether the tenant has tried to put things right since the claim was issued. If the judge is not satisfied that it is reasonable to award possession in these discretionary cases, they can dismiss the claim all together. In contrast, if a landlord proceeds on a mandatory ground—I remind the Committee again that proposed new grounds 1, 1A and 6A are mandatory—the judge must make an order, if the landlord has proved their case.

The amendments would give the court very limited discretion, in relation to mandatory grounds 1, 1A and 6A, to consider whether the tenant would suffer greater hardship as a result of the possession order being granted.

[Shaun Bailey]

I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman has tabled further amendments on the evidential burden, but does he not appreciate my concern that there is perhaps a little bit of a floodgate situation around appeals on this issue? Notwithstanding his comments about the judicial system and the court system, I am conscious that we may have a scenario where judges’ decisions are challenged and we end up with a backlog. As a result, what the amendment tries to do would either be delayed, or would end up in a system of appeal after appeal, because clearly the result would be down to a judge’s subjective decision, based on the evidence in front of them at the time.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. Perhaps I have not explained myself clearly. These amendments do not provide for an appeals process. As I have tried to make clear, when it comes to a discretionary possession ground, judges can weigh up the evidence. That is not the case for a mandatory ground. The amendment provides for not an appeal process, but discretion for the court and the judge to consider whether their decision would cause greater hardship to the tenant. I will come on to explain how that would work.

[Shaun Bailey]

To clarify my point, I am aware that the amendment is not about an appeals process. However, as the hon. Gentleman will know, an application for appeal can be made against any judge’s decision, and that application can be granted by the superior courts, so the process is not immune from appeal; decisions can be taken to appeal. That is a right, which would be granted, and it could be achieved through another part of the system. I just wanted to clarify my position on that point.

[Matthew Pennycook]

It is an interesting debate, but not particularly pertinent to the amendments. It is not my understanding that a mandatory possession ground order can be appealed. If it can, then I think that the instances in which it can are vanishingly small. However, that is not what these amendments seek to do. They purely seek to protect very vulnerable tenants who might suffer great hardship as a result of the court’s decision.

The starting point for the court would remain that the landlord in question has proved his or her intention to either occupy the property under ground 1 or sell it under ground 1A, or the need to respond to enforcement action under ground 6A. In other words, the presumption would be that a possession order will be made, and in most cases it would be. However, the amendments would provide tenants with the opportunity to demonstrate to the court—not at appeal, but at a hearing of the court—that their eviction on any of the three grounds in question would lead to hardship greater than that of the landlord or, in the case of amended ground 1, potentially the landlord’s family. If the judge determined that the hardships each party is likely to experience were the same, under these amendments, the tenants would not succeed, and the possession order would still be made. However, if the tenant could prove to a court that they or a member of their household would suffer greater hardship than the landlord or the landlord’s family if a possession order were made, the court could refuse to make the possession order.

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Consideration of Lords message
Tuesday 24th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I do not propose to detain the House for long, but I want to refer specifically to Lords amendment 22B. Part of me wants to be sympathetic towards it, especially after the measured speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous). However, I have a concern about the understanding on which it is predicated, namely, that councils do their job properly. Unfortunately I have experience of Soviet Sandwell Council, which does not do its job properly.

I remember the pandemic, and I remember the lack of accountability that we saw when virtual meetings cut out halfway through and the public were seemingly unable to access meetings at which key decisions were being made. It therefore frightens me that we might consider potentially giving a local authority—I am sorry to say this—as corrupt as Sandwell Council any possibility of hiding itself behind virtual meetings. The fact that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had to intervene on this local authority some 12 months ago because of the utter failure in its governance processes is one reason why I hesitate to support the Bill.

I recognise that local authorities broadly can and do get this right, but where it goes horribly wrong, we have seen it and we have lived it, and it terrifies me. Even today, when we are back in physical meetings, let me give Members an example of what might transpire if the amendment were passed. If a monitoring officer fails to advise that a council is in breach of section 31 of the Local Government Act 2003, that effectively allows councillors to vote on a pecuniary matter in which they have an interest, which, as Members will know, is against the law. I believe that this local authority would use the provisions in the amendment to hide itself and mask itself, and to allow even more of the inept and, in fact, borderline corrupt behaviour that we have seen. Unfortunately, officers at a high level—I do not mean all officers, but certainly the officers in the local authority with whom I have dealt—seem quite happy to be complicit in some of that behaviour at times. That is why it would terrify me to allow this amendment to be passed.

The core of the amendment, however, involves accessibility. The hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook) touched on that, and I agree with him: I think we need to get better at accessibility, and to consider broader ways of doing that. Although the amendment may not be passed, I think it has drawn out something that we have to do. Whatever the colour of our Government, we need to get more people into council meetings to talk about their experiences. However, I am terrified by what this amendment would do to my constituents. Effectively, it would allow the authority to mask itself even more.

I have come to one conclusion on this. I think there is a way in which the amendment might work. Sandwell Council is, ultimately, an embarrassment for the Black Country and a stain on local government in the west midlands, and we are undergoing a review of local government in the west midlands at the moment. The only conclusion I can draw is that it is now time to abolish Sandwell Council, and subsume the towns that make it up into other parts. I am thinking particularly of my communities in Tipton and Wednesbury. They need their identity back, but, more important, they need that accountability. It is time for Sandwell to go, because it has been an embarrassment for the last 50 years. It is time to put it in the bin.

I support some of the underlying aims of the Lords amendments, which I think we must take forward. I think we can all agree on that, across the House. However, owing to the experiences I have had for the last four years as a Member of Parliament, this particular mechanism concerns me a great deal, and I can only support it if there is some sort of guarantee that Sandwell Council will be put in the bin.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

Levelling Up Fund: Tipton and Wednesbury

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Julie Elliott (in the Chair)]

I will call Shaun Bailey to move the motion and then the Minister to respond. As is the convention for 30-minute debates, there will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Tipton and Wednesbury and the Levelling Up Fund.

People across the Black Country, in Tipton and Wednesbury specifically—whether they live on the Tibby estate, the Lost City, Friar Park or the Woods estate—are proud of their communities and where they come from. I am proud to represent an area with a long tradition and a proud sense of community.

Our great Black Country towns of Tipton and Wednesbury have consistently felt like they have been left behind. When I was elected to this place three years ago, I made one simple pledge to them: I would ensure that they were never forgotten again. That has been at the forefront of the work I have done since I was elected as the Member of Parliament for West Bromwich West in 2019. Of course, we have to remember that in 2019, the current Government were elected on a manifesto to level up and invest in communities like those in Tipton and Wednesbury, and indeed across the Black Country.

We know that talent and genius are uniformly distributed throughout the country, but opportunity, wealth and standards of living are not. Unfortunately, in my area, we have acute issues and problems with standards of living and access to opportunity. It is vital that we close that gap. We know that as it widens, it will only compound the problems in communities such as the ones I represent. I want to talk about the importance of the levelling-up fund to the communities I represent, in particular the towns of Tipton and Wednesbury, and to tell the story of the process they have gone through on this journey, particularly in respect of the levelling-up fund.

First, we need to set the context. Look, for example, at employment opportunities. Sandwell Metropolitan Borough, the local authority area that contains my constituency, has an employment rate below that of the west midlands, and indeed Great Britain. In 2004, Sandwell’s unemployment rate was 8.7%, compared with 5.2% in the west midlands and 4.8% nationally; in 2009, that unemployment rate rose to 14.4%, compared with 8.5% and 6.8% respectively. In 2022, unemployment in Sandwell stood at 6.2%, while the national average was 3.8%. Sandwell’s labour market profile shows that the economically inactive rate in Sandwell is 10% higher than either the west midlands or the wider country.

Let us look at wages. In April 2022, median gross weekly wages in Sandwell were £470 for all employees, compared to £532.50 across the UK as a whole, and £549.80 for full-time employees, compared to £640 across the UK as a whole. On average, therefore, my constituents take home £90 a week less than the average person in the United Kingdom. Equally, we have to address education gaps. At early key stage 2, 55% of pupils attending state-funded schools in my local authority area achieve the expected standard, which is below the national average of 59% and the west midlands average of 57%. The gap continues to grow at GCSE level, where 61% of students attending state-funded schools in my area achieve a standard pass, which is below the national state-funded average of 69% and the west midlands average of 67%. It goes without saying that Sandwell is the eighth most deprived upper-tier local authority area in the country. One of my wards is, I think, the second most deprived in the west midlands region.

In setting the context of the importance of the levelling-up fund to my communities, we can see that the acute challenges and problems that I was sent to Parliament to address on behalf of my constituents and the communities of myself, my neighbours and friends are absolutely self-evident.

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is a true champion for his constituency. I find it rather sad that the Opposition Benches are absolutely empty today, even though we have MPs in this place from both major parties representing the west midlands. I rose to support my hon. Friend and to ask this: does he agree that the levelling up of opportunity is about not just his constituency, but all constituencies across the west midlands? We have strong local councillors in Walsall under the leadership of Mike Bird. They work with local MPs and our West Midlands Mayor, Andy Street, who is doing a fantastic job and has secured the devolution deal that he just heard about in the Budget. That is how we make the huge strides that my hon. Friend has been seeking to secure in levelling up the west midlands, but the work continues.

[Shaun Bailey]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that intervention. It is as if she is clairvoyant—that is the point that I was about to come to. She is right; strong, local leadership is key. Although central Government funding is an important part of the tapestry of levelling up and investing in communities, strong and accountable local leadership, such as what we have seen from our West Midlands Mayor, Andy Street, is vital. He goes out there, bangs the drum and secures funding for our wider region.

I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s council leader, the legendary Mike Bird. Many of us active in the west midlands have known Mike for some time—he beats the drum for Walsall incredibly. I pay tribute to the Conservative group leader on Sandwell Council, David Fisher, who does that too.

I turn particularly to the need for the levelling-up fund in Tipton and Wednesbury. We found that, until recently, the Labour administration in Sandwell did not have a plan for how they were going to apply for the funds. It is vital that local authorities have a plan—whether they are red, blue or any colour in between, it is important that we take such opportunities. At a recent Sandwell Council meeting, certain councillors were carping about not getting central Government funding when they couldn’t even be bothered to apply for it, which is unacceptable. That is the hilarity of the situation.

One reason why I applied for this debate is that it is important for us to have a conversation about how to ensure that communities do not miss out on this funding through churlish party politics or sheer ineptitude—because people cannot be bothered or cannot manage multiple priorities. I acknowledge that this has got better recently, but at times my constituents have missed out not through failing any test or any central Government requirement, but because the council literally did not put in the application. That is just astounding. The fact is that our communities miss out.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) made the point that Opposition Members were not here. That is unfortunate because what I am talking about must be built across the political divide. Among the 28 Members of Parliament representing the West Midlands Combined Authority area, there is a 50-50 split. It astounds me that there is not one Labour MP in this Chamber.

[Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con)]

I commend my hon. Friend for all his work. I know how hard he fights for his constituents. Even before we were elected to this place, he and I were both so passionate about the levelling up of the Black Country, and we were both elected on the hyper-local ticket of changing these communities. In Wolverhampton North East, we have seen Government investment into the city of Wolverhampton, and I welcome that.

I absolutely agree with him about the announcement of the devolution deal. Having Andy Street there to work with our Labour and Conservative authorities in the west midlands is key to the Government’s pledge to level up. I ask the Minister to look at Wolverhampton’s remaining levelling-up bid. Today’s funding has gone to one of our outstanding bids in Bilston. I welcome that, but I ask her to look kindly on the one in Wolverhampton North East, our green innovation corridor, which will unlock more jobs. I want to ask my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) if he will celebrate the devolution deal and admit that more has to be done to accelerate that. Our communities need the change very quickly.

[Shaun Bailey]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her detailed intervention and I endorse her comments. She raises a point made by our right hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills about the nuances of the west midlands; that is something I have found in my interactions on the levelling-fund in the context of the towns of Tipton and Wednesbury, which I am discussing today.

We cannot think that the West Midlands Combined Authority area is effectively one socioeconomic area. There are four sub-divisions: the Black Country, Birmingham, Solihull and Coventry, all of which have unique economic and social challenges. Of course, we have seen that in the roll-out of their own levelling-up opportunities in those areas. Indeed, in my conversations with the West Midlands Combined Authority—this is a point I pressed with the Mayor—I said we cannot have a strategy of levelling up in the west midlands based on the idea that if we level up Birmingham, it will spread everywhere else.

There is sometimes a risk in these conversations, and this is another issue my communities in Tipton and Wednesbury face, that people will think, “You can be part of the Greater Birmingham commuter belt zone.” Well, that does not work because, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson) will know, communities in Wednesfield or Wednesbury could be as far from Birmingham as we are right now.

[Wendy Morton]

My hon. Friend makes the passionate point that we need an equitable share of levelling up right across the region. We are talking about not just jobs and skills, but resources like the police, which is why I campaigned to keep my police station in Aldridge open, and transport. Having the city region sustainable transport settlement is equally important so that areas like my hon. Friend’s can level up transport to enable people to go to work or to enjoy leisure and social facilities. That is why—forgive my indulgence, Ms Elliott—I must give a big plug to my train station in Aldridge, which I hope the Minister will now be aware of, although it is not in her portfolio.

[Shaun Bailey]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend and to you, Ms Elliott, for your indulgence. The point my right hon. Friend makes is that we cannot take the levelling-up fund on its own. As I say, it forms part of a much wider patchwork of particularly capital investment into our area. She rightly references her active campaign to keep the Aldridge train station open. I have no doubt whatever, given her other successes such as the redevelopment of Ravens Court in Brownhills, that she will succeed. She has a record of delivery and a promise of more, as I am sure we have all seen on election leaflets.

I turn back to the importance of the levelling-up fund for Tipton and Wednesbury. The point about it being part of a broader patchwork is demonstrated. My local authority has been successful in securing other funding, such as £67 million from the towns fund. I secured £80,000 for flood defence in Tipton, £50,000 to deal with congestion on the A461 Black Country New Road, and £3 million for Wednesbury town centre as part of the heritage action zones. That all forms part of that tapestry with the levelling-up fund.

I say to the Minister that when we look at the levelling-up fund, and I know this was the case in the applications that went through, what I have mentioned should be considered as part of that process, but should not be to its detriment. I appreciate that with a lot of these bids there is a difficult balancing act. I know from interactions I have had with the Department that there has to be a balance between how we divvy out that part of the levelling-up fund, accepting that if areas have had significant funding, it can be difficult to give more and more when other areas have not had it. On Tipton and Wednesbury and the development in Tipton that was part of the recent bid, accepting the broader strategy, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North East alluded to, is important.

I turn to the specific bid for Tipton. In round 1 of the levelling-up fund, Sandwell Council—for some reason unbeknownst to anyone with logic—did not decide to submit a bid, but in round 2 we did. It had a focus on Tipton town centre. The rationale was based on the fact that Tipton town centre—Owen Street—was Tipton’s beating heart. Tipton itself is a post-industrial town that still has a strong sense of community, and that has been its historical centre. The bid itself looked at a variety of different ways to level up the town centre, whether through regenerating commercial and residential premises or ensuring we had a residential offering in town centres. We have talked a lot in this place about the balance between residential and commercial and how we can reinvigorate our town centres through a residential offering, and that was a key part of the submitted bid as well.

Broadly speaking, my view at the time was that it felt like a good strategic fit for the town. It respected the history of the area and fitted very much with the aims of the Government through the programme, ensuring the balance between commercial use and that we can truly see a return for the community on the investment put into these areas, and also complementing existing investment. I give Sandwell Council its dues—its engagement with me as part of that process was consistent and good, particularly given our recent challenges as a local authority with the introduction of commissioners at the council and a rejig of our senior leadership team. We could see how the changes from the fund could have an impact.

In winding up my remarks, I say to the Minister that the levelling-up fund presented a great opportunity. I was pleased by the Chancellor’s announcement today that we will hopefully now see some investment in Tipton. We must ensure we continue to press forward this levelling-up agenda; it is part of a broader tapestry of work. I thank the Minister for the work she does in this space and for continuing the engagement to ensure we truly maximise this and tackle the acute problems I addressed at the start of my comments.

Oral Answers to Questions

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Dehenna Davison]

Another pitch heard loud and clear! I should be delighted to meet the hon. and learned Lady.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

My life peaked last month when I finally got to cut the ribbon on the Poundland in Owen Street, Tipton, which was opening after years of negotiation. A high streets strategy will be an important part of our levelling-up agenda. Will my hon. Friend meet me to discuss how we can make the most of the true beating heart of the Black Country, including the high streets in Tipton and Wednesbury?

[Dehenna Davison]

My hon. Friend has been a fantastic champion for his constituency. I congratulate him on his ribbon cutting, which I am sure was a moment of real joy. I should be delighted to meet him to discuss how best we can move forward with our high streets strategy.

Building Safety Bill (Sixteenth sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Tuesday 26th October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It is a good to see you in the Chair again, Mrs Miller, on our final day of deliberations. I agree with the sentiments behind new clause 14, and what the hon. Member for Weaver Vale said about ensuring that, going forward, we do not face such issues. He mentioned the example of Victoria in Australia, which we have heard about a lot today. We have to be mindful that in the state of Victoria the number of properties that would fit within the category that we are talking about is 2,000, while in England it is 100,000. Although I see what he is saying, we cannot use the Victoria example as a direct crossover.

We also have to look at the structures in which the current remediation programme sits, because ultimately the new clause will effectively centralise the programme through the establishment of a building works agency and the prevention method. I agree with the sentiment: in the longer term, we will need to have a prevention mindset, as was touched on in the deliberations on previous clauses in this important Bill. However, we need to be mindful of the process in which remediation already sits. Clearly, enforcement is being done by local authorities at present.

Members from across the Committee have been very insistent, and we have had a lot of cross-party support—particularly from myself and the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby—when we have said that local authorities need to have the funding to follow through. I know what the hon. Member for Weaver Vale is trying to do with the new clause, which is effectively to say that, if we centralise it with a building works agency that not only deals with remediation but goes further to prevent the problem before it happens, we streamline the process. I can see the logic, but my concern is that we might end up, as an unintended consequence—we have talked a lot about unintended consequences in our deliberations—detract from the work that is already being done.

The new clause could come in within six months of the day on which the Bill is passed, but I am conscious that work is already happening to remediate ACM cladding in particular, which is obviously at the heart of this. My understanding from research is that 95% of the cladding either has already been remediated or is in the process of being remediated. As I said, from a philosophical point of view I am relatively comfortable, but we also have to be mindful of this measure being able to be utilised operationally. My concern is that we have a scheme in place at the moment that is not perfect and needs scrutiny but is working in its aim around remediation.

A big concern that the new clause attempts to address is the lag within that. Perhaps that is something that we need to be mindful of. It could be argued that centralisation, which is what the new clause seeks, could streamline the process, but we also have to be mindful of the reality that there will always be a delay between application and a decision on works and funding coming through. That is a practical reality. I do not know whether a new building works agency would completely eliminate that. That would concern me as well. We have got a process in place already, but does it really achieve the aims?

The Building Safety Regulator has been established. When we build new regulatory landscapes, we do not want to make them inaccessible and convoluted by bringing so many different players to the table.

[Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure, Mrs Miller, to serve under your chairship. I thank the hon. Gentleman for letting me intervene. He talks about this being “convoluted”, but we talked last week about a diagram to help the leaseholder understand where to go for help. Would not a single agency or body with oversight of funds, grants and levies, that controls the various streams of money and approves the schemes once completed, make it easier for the leaseholder to tap into what is there and have an innate understanding of what they can actually do? At the moment, as he rightly says, there are many agencies, and the aim of the new clause is to bring them all under one body.

[Shaun Bailey]

The hon. Member makes an interesting point. On the face of it, we could say that the new clause streamlines the approach, but I still have a concern. For example, why could the agency not sit within the BSR or within the new regulator that we have just established? Why do we need to establish another one? I get his broader point—

[Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)]

Unless I have missed something, these are two entirely separate proposals for two entirely separate bodies that have two completely different functions. The Building Safety Regulator is there to regulate. The building safety works agency would oversee the remediation works. One regulates and one does the actual building work. They are two separate bodies. There is no confusion at all. A further amendment could put the building safety works agency within the regulator, but there is no need for that. They are two completely different bodies with two completely different remits.

[Shaun Bailey]

I can certainly see the hon. Lady’s point, but my point is: why do we need to bring so many actors to the table? We are trying to build a system that is accessible. I get what she says, but we both know that for vulnerable leaseholders, things might not seem straightforward. When someone is in distress and difficulty, they will not know the difference between the building works agency and the BSR. I can show her that from my casework.

[Daisy Cooper]

I think it became incredibly clear in our evidence sessions that there are many innocent leaseholders who have effectively become lawyers. They understand the legislation in great detail, and it is hugely disappointing that the hon. Gentleman thinks that many of these innocent leaseholders would not be able to understand the difference between two different bodies when they themselves have effectively become experts on the legislation. As I say, they are two different bodies. Leaseholders themselves are calling for a programme of find, fix and fund, and the building works agency would be there to do the fixing.

[Shaun Bailey]

We did see that, and I certainly do not want to undermine the work that individual leaseholders have done to get a grasp of the system. That is not what I am trying to say. I want to see a system that is as easy as possible to navigate. Yes, we have seen those examples and I completely get that, but I could equally refer to individuals in states of absolute emotional distress who would have to deal with this system, as we have touched on under previous new clauses.

[Mike Amesbury]

We have the Building Safety Regulator, as the hon. Member rightly pointed out, centralising what works in co-operation with the other stakeholders, including local fire services and local authorities, which my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West Derby advocated for. We also have the building safety fund. However, there sometimes seems to be a black hole in things. Things disappear and drift, and there is dither and delay. The new clause is about turbocharging the process, providing that leadership and drive that not only leaseholder residents require, but us collectively as legislators of the nation require to deal with this scandal.

[Shaun Bailey]

I think that we agree with the idea of turbocharging and streamlining the process, but where we disagree is on how we go about doing that. I question whether a building works agency in the form prescribed in the new clause would do that. My other slight concern is that we are already part way through a process of remediation. I want to see that process improved in the ambits in which it already sits. That is the point that I am trying to hammer home.

My concern is about the practical application. The hon. Member for St Albans rightly said, and I do not disagree with her, that many people have had to learn to navigate these difficult systems. On the flip slide, there will be many people who are totally lost and because of the circumstances they find themselves in, they may not be able to navigate these systems in the same way—notwithstanding her point, which I totally take on board; she is right.

To reiterate, I do not disagree with the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member for Weaver Vale and other hon. Members who have intervened. We do need a system that is accessible to those who have been most affected. My concern is about the practical application of new clause 14 and how it would work. I am conscious that we are already going through a process of remediation. The focus should be on ensuring that my right hon. Friend the Minister gets it absolutely right in the first instance.

[Mike Amesbury]

This is an emergency and an urgent crisis. We have a new Secretary of State, so we can look afresh at the matter. We have looked across the water at something that works. I know that Ministers, shadow Ministers and other stakeholders have spoken to governments in Victoria and New South Wales, looking at what has worked and sharing notes to take things forward. This is a crisis, so I would hope that the new Secretary of State can work with all stakeholders and politely bash heads together at almost a building safety summit. I hope that the matter will be looked at seriously to drive the process forward.

[Shaun Bailey]

The hon. Gentleman is right in what he says about moving things forward in the longer term, which is how I took it. It is incumbent on me and him to get the new Secretary of State to ensure that this works in the way that those who have been affected would expect. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Minister is waiting with bated breath for the representations that I will make to him to ensure that this works.

The hon. Gentleman has drawn on the example of the Australian state of Victoria and the conversations that have taken place. Of course, it is important that we look at international examples when we are deliberating the best way to solve this problem—he is right to label it as a crisis, because it is a crisis. I have already articulated this point, but my concern about drawing direct parallels with Victoria is the quantity and scale involved. As I said in my opening remarks, there are 2,000 properties in Victoria that fit the criteria and would fall within new clause 14, as opposed to 100,000 in England alone. My concern is about how we ensure that this system is practically operational, but I do not disagree with the philosophical sentiment behind new clause 14: the idea of streamlining the process, of having a culture in the longer term that is about prevention, and ensuring that those individuals who need to access the system can do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

I think the hon. Member for West Bromwich West can continue, and then when we come to the vote, I will note that the hon. Member for Weaver Vale wishes to withdraw the clause. Mr Bailey, do you want to finish your remarks?

[Shaun Bailey]

In light of the hon. Gentleman’s decision to withdraw the clause, I will conclude my speech. I would just like to get it on the record that I am very grateful for his intervention, and to all Members who have intervened. I do not disagree with the sentiment they have expressed: it is incumbent on all of us to work together to put pressure on Government to ensure that the Bill develops a system that works and looks after the most vulnerable.

[Christopher Pincher]

I will be brief. First, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West: I do not think I have ever before seen the official Opposition withdraw an amendment at the behest of a Back-Bench Member. They usually wait until the Minister has spoken. That has put me in my place, if nothing else. [Laughter.]

I thank the hon. Member for Weaver Vale for withdrawing his new clause. I understand what he is attempting to achieve by it; I think I am right in saying that it was a manifesto commitment that the official Opposition made, and perhaps at the time it was a sensible and appropriate thing to do. However—it is sad to recall—that general election was nearly two years ago, and things have moved on.

A well-established remediation programme is already in place, as my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West has mentioned: some 97% of buildings clad in ACM have either been remediated or are being remediated, and we believe that all ACM-clad buildings in scope have now been identified. As a result of the joint inspection team that we developed, which works with local authorities and housing associations to identify buildings with unsafe cladding that are in scope, that work is now over 80% complete, so it is hard to see how the time, effort and expense of setting up a new body to do that work would be well used.

I welcome the interest of the hon. Member for Weaver Vale in this matter. He raised the issue of Victoria, where—as my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West has said—there are something like 2,000 buildings above three storeys. In England, we have something like 100,000 buildings above three storeys, and the hon. Member for Weaver Vale’s new clause calls for an assessment of buildings over two storeys, so we are talking about a very significant extra degree of effort that would take time, expertise and expense that would be better served pursuing the mechanism that we are presently utilising.

However, I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, and I do not propose to spend any more of the Committee’s time debating this point, because I appreciate that we may vote very soon. I am sure we will come back to this point in future. Yes, we must knock some heads together and move rapidly to ensure that remediation is done as expeditiously as possible.

Building Safety Bill (Fifteenth sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Tuesday 26th October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Ruth Cadbury]

First, it will acknowledge, in property law, that there is an impact on people of the lack of appropriate action by the Government. Secondly, when the Government actually accept the polluter pays principle, including builders and developers of existing homes, which is where the main concern is at the moment, they could recoup some of the costs from those builders and developers, which could contribute to additional mental health support. The importance of the new clause is to acknowledge that the building safety crisis is an awful lot more than a building safety crisis; it is a people crisis.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I want to understand this from a practical point of view, so could the hon. Lady clarify—I apologise if she has covered this; I am listening intently to what she says—who would draft these reports? More broadly, given the obviously untold scale mental health impact this crisis has had, what assessment has she made of the impact on existing services, from which we would have to take professionals out of stream to draft these reports? I am keen to understand that point.

[Ruth Cadbury]

If we were to push the new clause to a vote and it was accepted, the details of that are in there. This is not unique in legislation. It can be done and it can be enacted if the Government will is there. We are trying to establish whether the Government actually care about the people who are impacted by this crisis.

Building Safety Bill (Fourteenth sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 21st October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Mike Amesbury]

I definitely agree with my hon. Friend—I wouldn’t dare not—and this cannot be allowed to continue.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

On Monday I met the National Housing Federation, and a point was made about tenant engagement. Sometimes the risk is that those who do not speak up have the most serious issues and are not being heard. As part of the hon. Gentleman’s amendment, which is very interesting, how does he feel that, operationally, we can ensure that tenants who often do not make complaints are actually heard? Quite often it is the same people time and again, which is great, but those from whom we do not hear often have serious issues. How does he feel that we could do that?

[Mike Amesbury]

I think it is about ensuring that the voice of tenants, residents and leaseholders is central to the new process—it is about bringing that to life. Throughout the Bill’s journey so far, Members from across the House have spoken eloquently about that, regardless of their political affiliation.

The programme that I refer to, and the issues it raises, brought shame on the country’s housing system and those involved in the neglect shown on ITV. It also highlights how the Government have defunded, diminished and undervalued social housing, and how little progress has been made since 2017 to bring in full social housing reform. The amendment brings us back to the reason the Bill was introduced: the tragedy at Grenfell Tower. Survivors of the fire at Grenfell are very clear that they were let down by the process. As tenants, they had no voice. They, more than anyone, support tenants having a voice and being heard.

Building Safety Bill (Thirteenth sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 21st October 2021 Public Bill Committees

In the clause, we are attempting to change the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 to allow leaseholders, under regulations, to ask their landlord to demonstrate that they have taken all reasonable steps to find means of paying for mediation before asking the leaseholders for the money. “Reasonable steps” could be: going back to the original builder; checking warranties; or—in the instance that the hon. Member for Weaver Vale raised—asking for grant funding through the various mechanisms that have been made available. If the landlord cannot reasonably show that they have done those things, the leaseholders can seek redress. It will be for the first-tier tribunal to determine whether those reasonable steps have been taken. There is plenty of case law to that effect. As we develop the regulations through secondary legislation, we will have a mind to exactly how those terms are defined.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Will statutory guidance be issued to landlords on what constitutes “reasonable steps”? If not, what engagement work will the Department do to ensure that landlords properly understand their regulatory duties under the clause?

[Christopher Pincher]

Yes, we will produce statutory guidance, and will consult on it. We will certainly make sure that we consult not only landlords but leaseholders on the guidance, so that leaseholders have input on what constitutes “reasonable steps”. I appreciate that not all leaseholders are legally savvy, so we will make that guidance as plain as possible, to allow them as much power as possible to seek redress when they need to.

--- Later in debate ---

[Christopher Pincher]

I am grateful to the hon. Members for Weaver Vale, for Brentford and Isleworth and for Luton South for the points that they have raised, and I appreciate that this is an important matter. We are mindful of the challenges faced by leaseholders who are specifically affected by the consequences of the Grenfell tragedy, and I hope that when I have spoken, the hon. Member for Weaver Vale will feel able to withdraw the amendment.

The Defective Premises Act 1972 applies not simply to the tall buildings that we are addressing primarily through the Building Safety Bill, but to all buildings. This clause extends the limitation period of the 1972 Act, and under section 38 of the Building Act 1984, from six to 15 years. That is a highly unusual retrospective change, which we believe will provide a legal route to redress that previously would not have been possible for hundreds of buildings, benefiting thousands of leaseholders.

Limitation periods serve several important purposes. They give legal and financial security and certainty; they protect defendants from stale claims, which may be difficult to counter—that is important, too, and we must remember that we are talking about all buildings covered by the Defective Premises Act—and they prevent injustice that may arise from the courts being required to decide on past events on the basis of evidence that may have become unreliable because of the passage of time.

Various limitation periods are set in the Limitation Act 1980 for different types of civil claim, of which this would be one. They range from 12 months for defamation or late payment of insurance claims, to six years for claims relating to some types of contracts, and to 15 years for cases involving negligence. That is where this type of case sits.

[Shaun Bailey]

My right hon. Friend will also be aware that it is possible, in the course of litigation, to make an application for those periods to be disregarded in the event that it can be proven to the tribunal that there are circumstances that make it possible to do so. Notwithstanding the conversations that we have had in Committee on the cost of litigation, does he agree that there are avenues by which that limitation period can, in extreme circumstances, be extended?

[Christopher Pincher]

I believe that my hon. Friend is correct in terms of the Limitation Act 1980, rather than the Building Safety Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Eddie Hughes]

Regardless of where in the UK people live, it is important that they have access to the redress that we have set out in the Bill. Discussions are ongoing with the devolved nations, because housing is a devolved matter and so it is for them to determine. Those negotiations seem to be going well, and the feeling seems to be warm, so we may have to return to the matter at a later stage of proceedings on the Bill.

The arrangements are flexible to ensure that the best provider can establish and maintain the service. The scheme will be free for homebuyers and is intended to be funded by fees that are paid by the scheme’s members. However, should it be necessary, the clause provides the power to give financial assistance to a person for the establishment and maintenance of the scheme.

[Shaun Bailey]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the provisions will allow the new ombudsman scheme to work effectively with other ombudsmen and redress schemes to maximise its impact for affected residents?

[Eddie Hughes]

Schedule 8 allows the scheme to include provision about a person exercising functions under the new homes ombudsman scheme, and it allows them to do so jointly with persons exercising functions from other redress schemes. It is important that we make it possible to work collaboratively. That may include the making of joint determinations by the new homes ombudsman and an independent person making determinations under another redress scheme. We are considering whether amendments may be required further to facilitate joint determinations and other forms of co-operation between the new homes ombudsman and other ombudsmen or redress schemes. I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful intervention, and it is something we are considering.

Clause 128 relates to the conditions that the new homes ombudsman scheme must meet under clause 127, and it sets out who can make a complaint to the scheme. The clause requires the scheme to be open to all developers to join as members so that qualifying complainants can escalate complaints about the scheme’s members. A qualifying complainant is a person who, at the time of the complaint, is a relevant owner of a new build home in England. The scheme is given the flexibility to set out other persons who can complain about the scheme’s members.

Schedule 8 details the other provisions that the scheme must or may include. This includes provision on which matters may be complained about; how complaints are to be made, investigated, determined and enforced; and complaints about the scheme itself. The scheme must also contain certain provisions required by schedule 8, such as the procedure for developers to become and remain members of the scheme.

To avoid duplication, the scheme may provide that the ombudsman will not be required to investigate and determine complaints that are dealt with under another redress scheme, or complaints that are subject to legal proceedings. The scheme may make provision about working with another redress scheme.

The scheme will require developers to provide complainants with redress if a complaint is well founded. This includes the ombudsman requiring the scheme members to provide compensation, make an apology, provide an explanation or take such other action in the interests of the complainant as the new homes ombudsman may specify. The scheme may also include provision about how the ombudsman’s determination will be enforced. This may include provision for the ombudsman to request a member to take action and, where a developer does not meet its requirements, the scheme may as a last resort include the expulsion of a member from the scheme. In such cases, provision must be made for how they can then rejoin the scheme.

Building Safety Bill (Eleventh sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Eddie Hughes]

We return to the question of capacity. I touched on the idea that organisations such as housing associations or councils already have their buildings under a management structure and a safety structure, and already have appropriate people appointed to those roles. They will have a benchmark with regard to the legislation that sets out the requirements of a building safety manager against which to measure that they have the appropriate skills and competences in place. The fact that within those organisations they will need to identify a named person who has those competences will focus minds, albeit that the person with those responsibilities might not need to discharge all the duties; they can delegate them to others.

The hon. Gentleman is right that this is a big endeavour, but it already exists in many organisations. On the appropriate salary levels, I think it is beyond the scope of the Bill to identify the remuneration for people employed in this, but as I say there are already people doing this role and I am sure that those who are already managing their buildings effectively and safely will not find this a much more onerous obligation.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd, and to see a fellow Black Country MP on the Treasury Bench. I agree wholeheartedly with what the Minister said, but we need to ensure that we do not allow anyone to test the boundaries, particularly when it comes to such things as regular intervals on assessment. He encapsulated a lot of what I was going to say in his contribution. I know that he agrees that we have to have a culture that ensures that those who are regulated by the legislation and by regulations do not see the leeway that we have rightly given them as an opportunity to test the boundaries.

[Eddie Hughes]

It is an important point. We need to strike a balance between being prescriptive, and setting very specific regulatory periods within which tasks have to be performed, and allowing some latitude for people to continue to manage their buildings in an appropriate way. If we give prescription for one thing it certainly will not apply across all 12,500 buildings, or however many more might be created in future. I return to the point about the Building Safety Regulator being live to developments within the sector and ensuring that it can respond accordingly.