Afghanistan: Ban on Women Aid Workers

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mitchell]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. Family planning and hygiene are supported. Specifically, we try to ensure that clean water, sanitation and food get through to those who need them. As we heard, 28 million people are in acute need in Afghanistan at this time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Minister for answering the urgent question.

Sanctions

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 22nd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

With the permission of the House, motions 3 to 6 will be debated together. I will call the Minister to move motion 3 and to speak to motions 3 to 6. At the end of the debate, I will put the Question on motion 3 and ask the Minister to move motions 4 to 6.

Jagtar Singh Johal

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I understand that legal papers have been lodged in relation to the case that is the subject of the urgent question. I am content for the urgent question to be dealt with because of the seriousness of the issues concerned, but I ask all Members to exercise caution and not to discuss issues that might prejudice any later legal proceedings.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the shadow Minister, Catherine West.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

The allegations in recent weeks of the potential collusion of the British intelligence service in the arbitrary detention of Mr Johal are deeply worrying. It is vital that the veracity of those claims is investigated as soon as possible to find the truth.

The House will expect the Minister to be clear on whether the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), under whose watch we believe this occurred, authorised sharing this intelligence with the Indian Government when he was the Foreign Secretary. I also urge the Minister to outline whether the Government are using their contacts at the highest level of the Indian Government to press for Mr Johal’s release without further delay.

I have three further questions. First, will the Foreign Secretary, who was appointed last night, make himself available at his earliest opportunity for a meeting with the family? Secondly, since 1995, every Government have made human rights part of the dialogue when they speak to India about trade, yet the current free trade agreement does not appear to have human rights within it. Can he clarify that?

Finally, it is a worrying pattern that there are other such cases in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office—for example, Morad Tahbaz, who remains languishing in an Iranian prison, or Alaa Abd El Fattah in Egypt, who liked a Facebook page. What urgent action is the FCDO taking on those cases? It must be a first principle that it is the first duty of the Government to look after every British national. The family asked today whether the new Prime Minister will show more guts than her predecessor. I think all hon. Members would like to see some backbone injected into these negotiations.

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[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I will take the point of order at the end.

[Rehman Chishti]

The specific question that we have before the House today looks at the welfare and treatment of a British national in India, where there are specific concerns about his welfare and treatment. The United Kingdom Government have made it clear through the number of engagements and representations that we have made—nearly 100 between officials and Ministers, including Prime Minister to Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary to Foreign Secretary—how importantly we take these concerns. My hon. Friend’s point about the accusations and allegations is that—

[Rehman Chishti]

Allegations. If I may finish, what I would say is that the accusations and allegations that have been made with regard to the situation of a British national abroad need to be looked at fully and fairly, in line with India’s commitments to human rights, domestic law and international law. That is what we would regard for any citizen anywhere around the world.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson, Stuart C. McDonald.

[Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) for securing this urgent question and for his relentless campaigning on behalf of his constituent. I echo his comments 100% and agree with what he said. As I understand it, the outgoing Prime Minister has previously been absolutely clear that this is a case of arbitrary detention. Is that still the Minister’s position? It seems absolutely clear that Mr Johal has been disgracefully treated during that detention, so will the Government call for his release? It is a simple question. I appreciate that legal proceedings are ongoing just now, but can the Minister assure us that in the fulness of time there will be a full statement to this Parliament about exactly what went on and the sort of inquiry that my hon. Friend calls for.

Can I raise two final issues? We know about this thanks to the diligent work of organisations such as Reprieve, but it brings to our attention the issue of whistleblowers. We know that 99% of the time our security services serve us absolutely fantastically well, but things do go wrong and abuses happen, so is there not now a need for protection of whistleblowers and for public interest defences in relation to disclosures—for example, in relation to the National Security Bill going through Parliament just now?

On that Bill, does the Minister agree that, hypothetically, if UK agencies are found liable for damages for actions they undertake that lead to torture abroad, those damages should be paid? If so, why does the Bill—in clause 58 —appear to create new and unnecessary ways to avoid the security services having to meet those damages? How can that be justified in any way, shape or form?

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Before I call the next hon. Member, I want to emphasise that I have advised right hon. and hon. Members to exercise caution in what they say. However, just to be clear, I cannot force people to stick to that; it is my advice.

I want to try to get everybody in, but that means short questions—not a series of questions from now on, but a short question—so that the Minister is able to respond quickly. In that way, I can try to get everybody in.

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[Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)]

Like many of my constituents, I am deeply concerned to hear that Jagtar’s legal team have provided evidence that Jagtar’s detention and torture took place following a tip-off by MI5. I am absolutely appalled by the Minister’s comments in the Chamber today, which show a lack of compassion and a lack of action on this issue. The Minister says he is unable to comment due to legal proceedings, but I believe it is in the Government’s gift, right now, to explain to the House what measures they are taking to remedy that. What review has taken place following what has happened? This is deeply concerning, and we cannot allow it to happen to many other people. I urge the Minister to clarify to the House whether a review has taken place, and what steps the Government have taken, instead of ducking and diving.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We really must make sure that questions are very brief, so that I can try to get everybody in.

[Rehman Chishti]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady says that Ministers lack compassion, but when I was the British envoy for religious freedom I worked tirelessly with partners around the world to help release individuals who were being persecuted for their faith. She asks what has been done, but I have answered the specific point. The matter is before the High Court, which is dealing with accusations and allegations regarding what information was shared with whom. That is a matter for the High Court. Let the High Court deal with this matter, and once it has, the hon. Lady is within her rights to bring the matter back in a question to the House.

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[Rehman Chishti]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for all the fantastic work that he does on freedom of religion or belief and supporting individuals who are persecuted for their faith around the world. He made a point about the UN working group on arbitrary detention, and that working group has given India until 2 November to respond to its findings. That date has been made clear to the Indian Government. The UK Government are clear, and I am clear, that we are committed to doing all that we can to support Mr Johal and his family.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Minister for answering the urgent question.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier, you were clear about what is not exactly a regulation of the House but advice to Members on sub judice and privilege, and that was clearly broken and taken advantage of. I do not know about Government Members, but those on the Opposition side clearly saw it as an abuse of privilege. Frankly, I do not like it when Members become spokespersons for a foreign state. Given that a Member of this House has impugned the integrity of my constituent on the Floor of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, what is open to me as a constituency MP and those defending the rights of their constituents in the courts to ensure that such matters do not happen again?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point of order. I deliberately returned to the advice that I had previously given about Members exercising caution in their remarks. As I said, I cannot force people to follow that advice; it is merely advice. He has put on the record his strong view about what was said. If he wishes to pursue that in other ways, I am sure that the Clerks can advise him, but I really cannot add anything further to what I have previously said.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think that the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) was referring to the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and what he said. It is clear that the hon. Member for Harrow East was relying on the privilege given to him as a Member of this House to make those allegations, and it is equally clear that the allegations are contested. What mechanism is open to Members when information released under privilege is contested in such a way? Does the hon. Member not have to repeat it outside?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I cannot prevent Members from expressing their views. I am concerned that the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) is not here. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, it is customary to inform an hon. Member if they wish to raise something concerning them. It is open to the right hon. Member to raise the matter on another occasion, but I suggest that he informs the hon. Member that he is going to do so, as that would provide an opportunity for a response. I think that we will leave it at that.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I will take the hon. Gentleman’s point of order after the business statement from the Leader of the House.

Human Rights Abuses and Corruption: UK Sanctions

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 21st July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We will now move on to the two remaining debates of the day. Before we start, let me stress that the Sir David Amess summer Adjournment debate, in particular, is extremely well subscribed, so we are going to have to impose time limits. In the first debate, we will start with a seven-minute limit, but that may have to go down quickly. Sir Iain Duncan Smith has very courteously suggested that I put a bit of guidance on the screens for the 15 minutes that he has allocated for his opening speech. I hope that throughout the afternoon we will be able to get an equal allotment for participating Back Benchers.

Sri Lanka

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Amanda Milling]

I reassure my right hon. Friend that UK economic support is forthcoming through multilateral institutions such as the IMF.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP)]

Sri Lanka is a wonderful place with wonderful people, and I am sure that all our hearts go out to them during this terrible crisis, which, as Members have said, has been a long time in the making. A concerted international effort is needed to get through the immediate humanitarian crisis. The UN humanitarian needs and priorities plan has called for $47.2 million in short-term emergency aid. I appreciate that the Minister might not give us a number today, but will she confirm that the UK will contribute to that?

The President has fled, but he cannot flee accountability. Does the Minister agree that the President and all his officials who are complicit in acts of humanitarian abuses will and must be held accountable, and will the UK contribute to those efforts?

On the wider point, this situation was triggered by economics, as we have heard, with inflation at 54% last month and likely to be 70% this month. That is a terrible cost of living crisis for ordinary Sri Lankans, and it was triggered in part by unmanageable debt. The UK is in an important position in the IMF and the World Bank. This does not just apply to Sri Lanka; I fear that other countries are having trouble with unmanageable debt. What talks has the Minister had on that?

Strategy for International Development

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Although we are not pressed for time, if everybody spoke for about half an hour we would be in some difficulty. A little guideline would be to speak for about 15 minutes, and everybody would have equal time at that rate. I appreciate that some may speak for a little less than that, but I say that just so you are aware.

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[Conor McGinn (St Helens North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise to the House for interrupting the debate, but you will be aware that there has been a significant number of resignations from the Government Front-Bench team today. I think it was 31 at the last count—[Interruption.] My hon. Friends say 32—I have not checked my phone since I rose to my feet. There is a serious point: as well as a duty to Departments and the functions of government, Ministers have a duty to the House. My understanding—I wonder whether this is your understanding, Madam Deputy Speaker—is that the Government have adjourned or effectively cancelled Bill Committees tomorrow, because they are unable to provide Ministers to fulfil their duties to the House. Can you give us an indication of whether the Leader of the House has said that he intends to come here to make a statement about any change of business and about the Government’s ability to fulfil their obligations to the House? It seems very much to me that this Government have ceased in their ability to govern.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I have received no notification from the Leader of the House that he intends to make any sort of statement, and I have not been led to believe that the Speaker’s Office has either. The Committee of Selection meets this afternoon to look at membership of Committees. If Committees are not going ahead, they would simply not appear on the Order Paper tomorrow. However, if the hon. Gentleman requires any further information, I direct him to the Public Bill Office, which may be able to give that to him. As I said, however, I have not received any notification from the Leader of the House with regard to this matter, but those on the Treasury Bench will have heard the hon. Gentleman’s concerns.

NATO Accession: Sweden and Finland

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Vicky Ford]

I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary for his words. We stand together united across this House in providing support to Ukraine and in standing against Russia’s illegal aggression. We are also united today in providing support to our allies in Finland and Sweden and using this exceptional process—I believe it is the first time it has ever been used—to fast-track this House’s approval of their accession. By doing so, we send a strong message that this House will always stand for freedom and democracy and against aggression. I remind him that we are on track to spend 2.5% of GDP on defence by the end of this decade.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Tom Tugendhat.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for announcing this to the House. It has been an important negotiation and conversation over recent weeks and months. My own meetings with the Prime Minister of Finland and the Foreign Minister of Sweden have been important in assuring me that their commitment is real and that this agreement is fundamental not just to their security, but to ours.

Let us not forget what this is about. NATO is not an overseas adventure; it is fundamentally about the defence of the homes we are lucky to live in and the neighbours and friends we are lucky to live beside. It is about defending the whole of the United Kingdom, all of our coast and, especially in the case of Finland and Sweden, the high north and the Scottish coasts and islands that are so important to the integrity of the United Kingdom. It is fundamentally about defence of the realm.

I pay enormous tribute to my hon. Friend and the whole Foreign Office team who have got this negotiation over the line. Will she now, however, engage in conversations with our Swedish and Finnish partners to ensure that our interoperability goes much deeper, not just into equipment purchase, so that we can end the war in Ukraine quickly and before the winter starts putting extra costs on families across our country?

[Vicky Ford]

Madam Deputy Speaker, could I ask you a favour? One of the Finnish Ministers is actually in this place and is trying to get access to one of the Galleries, but because we have been rather full they have not been able to get through the House authorities. I am sure all my colleagues would like to welcome the Minister to come and listen. Could you possibly ask for that?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I understand that that has been sorted.

[Vicky Ford]

Oh, she is there. I therefore welcome Minister Johanna Sumuvuori, who is here for the international ministerial conference on freedom of religion or belief. I say to her: we welcome you very much to hear this historic moment as well. Thank you for being with us, and we stand with Finland and Sweden.

In response to the specific questions the Chair of the Select Committee asked, Sweden and Finland have been working with NATO for many years, as I outlined. That is one reason why they have been able to accede to NATO within such a short period of time. They have already met the criteria for NATO membership, and I am sure we will look to work with them as closely as possible during the period between now and the vote, and even more closely once they become full members.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call SNP spokesperson Alyn Smith.

[Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP)]

I too thank the Minister for advance sight of her statement. It is a pleasure to see her in her place, although I should point out there are still nine and a half resigning hours until “Newsnight”. More seriously, it is important to stress where we agree, and the SNP agrees with the UK Government’s position in welcoming the applications, from a position of self-determination and democratic sovereignty, of Finland and Sweden to join NATO. I also welcome our Finnish colleague to the Gallery and pledge the SNP’s support for a speedy accession process into NATO. Finland and Sweden will be very welcome; they will augment the alliance, and we support that.

We also support the expedited approval process within this House that the Minister proposes under section 22 of the 2010 Act. I stress that that is not a precedent or a blank cheque, but, as the Minister says, the circumstances match that case and very much merit the suspension of normal procedures. We also support NATO’s strategic concept from an SNP perspective and believe NATO is the cornerstone of European defence. We look forward, under our worldview, to seeing an independent Scotland joining the 29 out of 32 non-nuclear NATO member states—that is, of course, a different discussion.

We on the SNP Benches are NATO supporters. While we support the strategic concept, since the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee made wider points it is also worth mentioning the EU’s strategic compass, which is moving at light speed. The EU is developing a much stronger unified defence capability. The UK risks missing out on those negotiations and the UK defence industry and defence operations risk missing those co-ordinations. I reiterate our call for a deep and comprehensive UK-EU strategic defence treaty, as well as augmenting the NATO alliance. We support what the Minister presents today, and I thank her for the statement.

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[Vicky Ford]

I completely agree with the hon. Member that Finland and Sweden joining NATO makes the world a safer place for the people of the United Kingdom, for all our NATO allies and for all those who are concerned about Russian aggression and what Ukraine means for the potential future of their country. That is why we will continue to stand with like-minded partners across the world to defend democracy and freedom, and that is why the House is united in ensuring that the ratification of the accession passes as swiftly as possible through the fast-track procedure at this truly exceptional time. We stand united with all those parties who agree to it.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Minister for her statement and welcome the observers to whom she referred in the Gallery.

Iran’s Nuclear Programme

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

Time is short and we need to progress to the end of this debate, so I will be brief and offer a pragmatic view. I have listened with great interest to Members on both sides of the House and I broadly support the direction of travel. Of course, we are yet to hear from the Minister.

Of most concern to me is that the time needed to produce uranium for one nuclear weapon in Iran is now three weeks. That is called the break-out time and it has fallen from one year. Clearly, the nuclear aspirations, technologies and advancements have progressed significantly in Iran. I want to pose this question: how might the UK and other allied states in the middle east put Iran back on the road to peace and prosperity as part of the international community? However, this is also about working with Iran and doing what we can to help that regime.

The big question is about the restoration of Iran’s 2015 nuclear deal, the JCPOA, which has been mentioned. That was agreed with world powers, including China, France, Germany, Russia, the UK and the USA. As we know, the accord was unilaterally abandoned by the US in 2018 under Trump, who then imposed heavy sanctions on Iran. Those have been eased since Biden came into office, but this perhaps put Iran closer than ever to achieving nuclear power. Since 2020, talks have been revived, but only intermittently, so we need the US fully engaged again. Thankfully, indirect talks between Iran and the US began on 29 June in Qatar, with the EU mediating. All sides are agreed that a restored deal is the best outcome, but such a deal could still legitimise Iran’s nuclear transgressions. I am also told by some sources that a successful deal may bring Iranian oil back to the market, but, for the reasons outlined so eloquently by my right hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick), I do not subscribe to that view, although I recognise the counter-arguments.

So where are we? Earlier this month, in response to a resolution introduced by the US, France, the UK and Germany censuring Iran, it took down 27 IAEA cameras, making tracking activity at its nuclear sites much harder. Iran has never been closer to a nuclear weapon. The stockpile today is 18 times the limit agreed in 2015. Iran has a missile capability—we know that—and in March 2022 the IRGC adopted a new independent branch called the Command for the Protection and Security of Nuclear Centres, so developments are worrying.

My first question to the Minister is whether we think that sanctions work—I think they probably do, for reasons outlined this afternoon—or whether they are redundant. Is a restored deal the best option for now, noting that Iran is doing this anyway? We know that Iran has committed nuclear transgressions since the 2015 deal. What assessment has been made of the viability of a renewed JCPOA in preventing Iran from achieving a nuclear weapons capability—again, noting that it is happening anyway?

We know that the sunset provisions of the 2015 deal are coming up to their expiration date. We also know that the international community could face either having to accept Iran as a nuclear power or, potentially, undertaking military action. That is a very stark choice. How much would we have to compromise to renew a deal that would prevent Iran from getting a weapon, noting that Iran is very close to getting that weapon?

For what it is worth, my take is that Iran should come back into the international community, as we do not want it to progress its activities alongside rogue states. But at what price? We need to better understand the relationship between Iran and its neighbours in the middle east; we also need to better understand the position of our allies in the middle east, to ensure that their needs are best met.

I suspect that it is pragmatic at this stage to call on the Government to extend the sunset clauses, enact a stricter monitoring regime, retain terrorist proscriptions, reinforce existing friendships and relationships with allies in the middle east and press against Iran’s destabilising impacts in the region, but I would want to see a way forward in which Iran is at the table as part of a solution. But, of course, nothing should be off the table.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) on bringing this debate to the House, and I thank the Backbench Business Committee for ensuring that it could happen. There has been an awful lot of accord across the House today; it seems that we are all raising similar concerns and we are all keen to find a way forward. It is not quite a matter of semantics, but perhaps there is just a slight disagreement about the way forward and the best way to tackle the issue.

The joint comprehensive plan of action was never ideal, but it was better than no deal and we need to recognise that it was a major diplomatic achievement. The SNP joins Members across the House who have called for Iran to halt its activities that are in violation of the JCPOA. We hope to see detailed, precise and deep talks this week. There is an urgent need for a diplomatic solution and an urgent need to end Iran’s nuclear escalation.

We agree with the concerns that have been raised about Iran’s stated intention to end all JCPOA-related transparency measures and about the action that it has already taken in that regard. Transparency is incredibly important, and any future deal needs to put that at the heart of the agreements made.

There are other risks that have not been mentioned in the Chamber today. Bilateral work on tackling climate change and on tackling the Afghan refugee crisis is currently on ice because of the present situation. Regardless of escalation and nuclear uranium enrichment, the climate crisis and the Afghan refugee crisis are not going away. We must work to tackle them. As several hon. Members have said, we must ensure that we put people at the heart of our approach and that we work to improve human rights in the region, as well as ensuring that the people of Iran are decoupled from the action of their Government and given the opportunity to flourish.

We agree with the calls for the UK to use our place to press the regime—and to press all regimes that have issues with human rights or are committing human rights abuses, whether that is Iran, Saudi, Russia or any of the countries committing human rights abuses against their citizens or citizens of other countries.

I criticise the unilateral actions that Donald Trump took, on the basis that taking unilateral action on this is not the way forward. The way forward is for everybody to work together as international partners to get a settlement. The reality is that the situation is potentially worse than it could have been if those unilateral actions had not been taken. It is better to act in concert.

We welcome President Biden’s commitment not just to returning to the deal, but to strengthen the areas in which it is defective and extend the JCPOA. I have not much mentioned wider regional security, but we need to ensure that action is taken and that there is international co-operation with respect to Iran’s issues, its causing of regional instability and the actions that it is taking to destabilise countries around the world, as several contributors to the debate have mentioned. That needs to be a matter of priority.

As somebody who believes that we should not have nuclear weapons anywhere in the world, I am massively concerned to see the upscaling of Iran’s potential nuclear capabilities. We need to ensure that talks happen, whether that is around the table this week or in some future round of talks. We need to ensure that the UK’s international power is used to put pressure on, and to de-escalate the situation as quickly and as properly as we possibly can.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the shadow Minister.

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 27th June 2022 Commons Chamber

Second Reading.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I must inform the House that the reasoned amendments have not been selected. Before I ask the Foreign Secretary to move Second Reading, I reiterate how important it is for Members who wish to speak in the debate to be here at the beginning to hear all the opening speeches, to stay in the Chamber for the vast majority of the debate and certainly for the winding-up speeches, and to be there in good time. It is very discourteous not to follow those rules, especially on an important debate such as this.

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[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for bringing this forward and for her comprehensive understanding of the position of many people in Northern Ireland. As someone who has had businesses contacting me for those who have openly stated that they are from a nationalist tradition and yet feel afraid to voice complaints to their own MP for fear of reprisals, I speak with confidence in assuring the Secretary of State that Northern Ireland as a whole needs this Bill not simply for cultural identity, which is imperative, but for financial viability for small businesses due to the effects of the EU’s vindictive approach to block VAT and state aid. This Bill really is long overdue.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Interventions should be fairly brief because we have a lot of people wanting to speak in this debate.

[Elizabeth Truss]

I was talking about the data that we are sharing with the EU. I am pleased to say that we already have this system in place. We are giving demonstrations to businesses and the EU to show how it works, and I am happy to make those demonstrations available to Members of Parliament as well. Any trader violating the lanes will face penalties and would face ejection from the scheme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Paisley]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Ian Paisley on a point of order, but I hope that this is not a way of disrupting the debate.

[Ian Paisley]

Is it in order for the shadow Secretary of State to indicate that he has had negotiations with the Democratic Unionist party when no such negotiations have taken place, Madam Deputy Speaker?

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He knows that he is well able to ask to intervene again on the shadow Secretary of State. It undermines our debates if we come up with endless points of order that interrupt them. It is not a fair thing to do. The hon. Gentleman will try to catch my eye later; I suggest that we try to respect each other in the Chamber.

[Mr Lammy]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

As will be very obvious to everyone here, there are many people who want to contribute to this debate. I do not want to put a time limit on immediately. I think one will be necessary, but it would be greatly helpful if Back-Bench colleagues could confine their remarks to a maximum of 10 minutes, and I think they will be quite popular if they manage to say anything in rather less than that. I call Simon Hoare.

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[Simon Hoare]

I will not, but I know the hon. Gentleman will understand why.

The argument of necessity is clearly not made. The Prime Minister himself wants to see this done by negotiation, and I agree with him. There is the option to trigger article 16 if the Government think that that is necessary. If the situation is as bad as some Ministers would have this House believe, one has to ask why they have not used the emergency brake of article 16, but have instead suggested a calm and tranquil Sunday afternoon walk through a bicameral system of legislative progress—something that will take 10 months. Either the data is as bad as they tell us it is—incidentally, it is not—in which case rapid action is required, or we are just going to do this, which suggests to me that this is all gamesmanship and muscle flexing. Belfast port is now handling a record amount of cargo; last year, it handled a record 25.6 million tonnes. The food and drinks sector is benefitting. More Irish businesses are buying stuff from Northern Ireland, which is good for Northern Ireland plc.

The Henry VIII clauses are wrong, the purpose of the Bill is wrong, and the necessity for it is not proven. I ask this question sincerely of my hon. and right hon. Friends on the Conservative Benches. We are talking about playing fast and loose with our international reputation; playing fast and loose with our adherence to the rule of law; an Executive power grab with Henry VIII clauses; and pandering and giving way to some sort of political brinkmanship on one side of the very sensitive divide in Northern Ireland, which we cannot afford to treat as a plaything. If the Labour party were on the Government Benches and doing what is contained in this Bill, what would our response be, as Conservatives? We would say that this was a party not fit for Government. We would say that it was a party that does not understand or respect our traditions, and that does not understand the importance of reputation. For a fellow Tory to have to point that out to Tories is shameful. I ask my hon. and right hon. Friends to think about what this does to our party’s reputation and to our nation’s reputation, because both are in peril.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con)]

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate, although I have to say to the lone Minister sitting on the Front Bench that I do not welcome this Bill. I fully understand and share the Government’s desire to uphold the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. I understand and share the desire to keep the Union of the United Kingdom. I recognise the frustration and difficulty when the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive are not in place and operating. I also share the Government’s desire to get that Assembly and Executive back operating for the good of the people of Northern Ireland. I do not believe, however, that this Bill is the way to achieve those aims.

In thinking about the Bill, I started by asking myself three questions. First, do I consider it to be legal under international law? Secondly, will it achieve its aims? Thirdly, does it at least maintain the standing of the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world? My answer to all three questions is no. That is even before we look at the extraordinarily sweeping powers that the Bill would give to Ministers.

The Government’s claim of legality, as we have heard, is based on the doctrine of necessity in international law. The Government, as the Foreign Secretary said, have published a legal position, and that described this term “necessity” in the following way:

“the term ‘necessity’ is used in international law to lawfully justify situations where the only way a State can safeguard an essential interest is the non-performance of another international obligation…the action taken may not seriously impair the essential interests of the other State(s), and cannot be claimed where excluded by the relevant obligation or where the State invoking it has contributed to the situation of necessity.”

Let us examine that. First, if the necessity argument is to hold, this Bill must be the only way to achieve the Government’s desires, yet the Government’s legal position paper itself accepts that there are other ways. For example, it says:

“The Government’s preference remains a negotiated outcome”,

which was reiterated by the Foreign Secretary in her opening speech. The paper also acknowledges that another way to deal with this issue lies in the existence of article 16. The Government’s preferred option is negotiation, and then there is a second option, which is article 16.

Article 16 is referred to in the legal position paper, but when I read that I thought it was referred to in a way that seemed to try to say that the existence of article 16 somehow justifies the introduction of this Bill. Article 16 does not justify this Bill; the very existence of article 16 negates the legal justification for the Bill.

Let us also examine some of the other arguments for invoking the necessity defence. That defence cannot be claimed where the state invoking it has contributed to the situation of necessity. Again, in their legal position paper, the Government set out their argument that

“the peril that has emerged was not inherent in the Protocol’s provisions.”

I find that a most extraordinary statement. The peril is a direct result of the border down the Irish sea, which was an integral and inherent part of the protocol that the Government signed in the withdrawal agreement. It is possible that the Government might say, “Ah well, we knew about that, but we did not think the DUP would react in the way that it has.” I say to the Minister that the Government should have listened to the DUP in the many debates that went on over the withdrawal agreement, because it made its position on the protocol very clear at that point, and it was not positive.

Finally, necessity suggests urgency; “imminent peril” is the phrase used. There is nothing urgent about the Bill. It has not been introduced as emergency legislation. It is likely to take not weeks, but months to get through Parliament. As the former Treasury solicitor Jonathan Jones said in The House magazine,

“If the UK really did face imminent peril, you might think the government would need to deal with it more quickly than that.”

My answer to all those who question whether the Bill is legal under international law is that for all the above reasons, no, it is not.

Question two is whether the Bill will achieve its aims. I am assuming that the aims are either to encourage the DUP into the Northern Ireland Executive, or that the Bill is a negotiating tool to bring the EU back round to the table. On the first of those, so far I have seen no absolute commitment from the DUP that the Executive will be up and running as a result of the Bill. There were rumours that that might happen on Second Reading, but as far as I can see it has not happened. If my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary wants to have a discussion with me about negotiations with other parties in this House on various matters, I am happy to do so.

If the Bill is a negotiating tool, will it actually bring the EU back round the table? So far, we have seen no sign of that. My experience was that the EU looks carefully at the political situation in any country. As I discovered after I had faced a no-confidence vote—and despite having won that vote—the EU then starts to ask itself, “Is it really worth negotiating with these people in government, because will they actually be there in any period of time?”, regardless of the justification or otherwise for its taking that view. I suspect those in the EU are saying to themselves, “Why should we negotiate in detail with a Government who show themselves willing to sign an agreement, claim it as a victory and then try to tear part of it up after less than three years?” My answer to the second question as to whether the Bill will achieve its aims is no, it will not.

My final question was about the UK’s standing in the world. The UK’s standing in the world, and our ability to convene and encourage others in the defence of our shared values, depends on the respect that others have for us as a country—a country that keeps its word and displays those shared values in its actions. As a patriot, I would not want to do anything to diminish this country in the eyes of the world. I have to say to the Government that this Bill is not in my view legal in international law, it will not achieve its aims and it will diminish the standing of the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world. I cannot support it.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I am grateful to the Back-Bench speakers so far, who have been very considerate of others in the length of their speeches, but I will after the next speaker have to introduce an eight-minute time limit in order to be able to give everybody equal access.

Ukraine Update

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 16th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his strong support for the actions that we are taking to support Ukraine and to condemn Russia for this appalling illegal war. We continue to be in talks with the Ukrainians about what more we can do—we are now supplying, as I mentioned, multiple-launch rocket systems—but what is important is that they do get up to NATO-standard equipment. To develop those plans, we have the joint commission with Poland and Ukraine, and we will be saying more on that at the NATO summit.

The right hon. Gentleman is also right about the appalling forced transfer of people to Russia, including children. That is why, in today’s sanctions, we are specifically targeting those who are enabling that appalling practice. He is right, too, about global food prices, and the appalling way in which Russia is weaponising hunger to pursue its ends in Ukraine. We are working with our G7 allies on helping to get the grain out of Ukraine. We are also in talks with the UN. We are doing all we can to facilitate Finland and Sweden’s urgent accession to NATO. What Putin wanted was less NATO, but what he is getting is more NATO, as people understand that the Euro-Atlantic alliance is vital to securing security across Europe.

We are in regular talks with the Ukrainian Government on the British citizens, who are prisoners of war; they were fighting legitimately with the Ukrainian army. What Russia has done is a complete violation of the Geneva convention, and we are taking all the steps that we can.

On the future of Russia, it is clear that we can never allow Russia to be in a position to undertake this aggression again—that is to do with internal repression as well as external aggression—which is why we wholeheartedly support Navalny. We are very concerned about the reports that we have heard, and we urge Russia to release him as soon as possible.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the Chair of the Defence Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Elizabeth Truss]

My right hon. Friend is right to highlight the very serious issues in Odesa. We are working with the Ukrainians on shore-to-ship weapons to help to protect the port. We are working with the United Nations, through the General Assembly and other mechanisms, to try to secure access to the port. However, it is also important to look at the coalitions of the willing that could take action, and the G7 is important in that; that is why I am having a video call with my G7 Foreign Minister counterparts. Turkey also has an important role to play, and we are also in talks with the Turks. We are doing all we can to get that grain out of Ukraine, because it is vital for the Ukrainian economy and to deal with the very real issue of world hunger.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call SNP spokesperson Owen Thompson.

[Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)]

I thank the Foreign Secretary for advance sight of her statement. On the SNP Benches, we continue to stand in support of the actions of the Government and in absolute solidarity with the people of Ukraine. The fallout from this crisis has had an alarming impact on other regions. In the middle east alone, Lebanon’s wheat flour prices are already up 47%, Yemen’s cooking oil prices up 36% and Syria’s cooking oil prices up 39%. Chris Elliott from the Institute for Global Food Security at Queen’s University Belfast has said that there are likely to be famines in Africa because of what is happening in Ukraine, and David Beasley, the World Food Programme’s executive director, has told the world to get ready for hell.

The Foreign Office’s international development strategy, published just last month, locked in aid cuts imposed by this Government on countries such as Syria for years to come, so what steps will the Foreign Secretary take to reconsider those decisions? US President Biden has signed off on a plan to help to export 25 million tonnes of grain stuck in Ukraine by rail because of the Russian naval blockade, with a plan to build silos in Poland. What discussions has the Foreign Secretary had with American and Polish allies to offer support in the construction and logistical delivery of that plan?

The actions of many in spreading misinformation are having a significant impact, so what action is the Foreign Secretary taking to clamp down further on bots and cyber-troops who perpetuate such misinformation? SNP Members are supportive of the Government’s sanctions regime against the Kremlin, which is essential as a component of our response to Putin’s heinous crimes in the invasion of Ukraine. With that in mind, I draw the Foreign Secretary’s attention to the effect of sanctions in non-Government-controlled areas. Sanctions prohibit the transfer of certain goods and technical equipment, including water pumps and refrigeration equipment, so what steps is she taking to ensure that humanitarian organisations can better get that equipment into those areas?