Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hammond of Runnymede Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

6. If he will take steps to encourage women in the Royal Navy to apply to serve on Vanguard and Astute class submarines.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

I announced to the House on 8 December that women will be recruited into the Royal Navy submarine service. All submariner roles will be open to women, and this new opportunity to serve will enlarge the talent pool from which the submarine service will recruit. All male and female applicants will be assessed against the same criteria. All applicants will receive the same training. I am confident that there will be sufficient interest from female personnel to serve on board Royal Navy submarines.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I welcome that news from the Secretary of State and the confirmation of what many of us know: that women can do everything that men can do. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] But better. Can the Secretary of State please expand on when it is most likely that women will first be put into training and service on submarines?

[Mr Hammond]

Let me say, Mr Speaker, that if my wife is to be believed, not only can women do everything that men can do, but they can do two things at a time, while men can do only one thing at a time. I hope that this will contribute to the efficiency gains that we need to make in the Royal Navy and elsewhere. I can tell my hon. Friend that female officers will serve on Vanguard class submarines from late 2013, followed by ratings in 2015, and that women will be able to serve on Astute class submarines as both officers and ratings from about 2016.

[Harriett Baldwin]

I pay tribute to all those who have the fortitude to serve on submarines underwater for many months at a time, particularly at this time of year. Can the Secretary of State say whether there will be any cost to the public purse from adapting submarines to accommodate both sexes?

[Mr Hammond]

Yes, there will be an estimated cost of about £3 million in total, to provide appropriate accommodation and emergency air supplies, so that should any female submariner be found to be pregnant while on board, she will be able to breathe from a discrete air supply until she can be medically evacuated.

[Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

Have any trials been conducted for this project? I generally welcome the principle entirely, particularly given the great success of women on board all other ships, but does my right hon. Friend not think that it might be worth while conducting a lengthy trial in simulated conditions before the plan goes ahead?

[Mr Hammond]

I would say two things to my right hon. Friend. First, the only reason why women were not eligible for the submarine service was that until recently the best medical evidence suggested that there could be a risk to foetal health. It is now clear that that risk does not exist. I would also say that the United States navy has made the change already, and has found the arrangements to be perfectly satisfactory.

[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

3. What food and entertainment his Department plans to provide to service personnel on operations during the Christmas period.

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[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had on armed forces pay; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

I provided oral evidence to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body on 13 December. The discussion covered various aspects of the current remuneration package for members of the armed forces, as well as the broader economic context.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. He will, of course, be aware that the pay freeze and changes to pensions are causing some concern, perhaps even anger in some quarters, not least among non-commissioned officers. Does he have any concerns in that regard, and does he have any contingencies in place should the changes to pensions and the pay freeze lead to an exodus of experienced personnel?

[Mr Hammond]

The Government recognise the unique and important role played by the armed forces, which is why we doubled the operational allowance to £5,280 tax free, why the incremental pay system will continue during and after the pay freeze, and why we have exempted the armed forces from the average 3% increase in pension contributions that public sector workers will pay. I recognise the concern that the hon. Gentleman expresses, and I have discussed it with the Armed Forces Pay Review Body. The proposals that the Chancellor announced in the autumn statement for continued pay restraint after the freeze include flexibility for the Ministry of Defence to address specific problem areas if we find we are losing, or failing to recruit, specialist staff.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

What does my right hon. Friend think will be the effect on the morale of our armed forces personnel of their pay being frozen this year, while many people on benefits are being given a 5.2% increase?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend will recognise that by doubling the operational allowance for the armed forces, exempting them from the pension contributions increase and continuing the incremental pay system, we have sent a very important signal to them about the importance that we attach to them. I think that most members of the armed forces understand that we are facing some very tough decisions in order to get the MOD budget back on track and ensure a sustainable future for our armed forces, and that the restraint was necessary to achieve that.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Frozen pay, reduction in the pension and compulsory redundancies: can the Secretary of State explain how that squares with the Prime Minister’s statement in The Sun this morning that he intends to uphold the military covenant and support our servicemen and women?

[Mr Hammond]

I think that the hon. Gentleman was a member of the last Government, so he will be very clear about the scale of the financial problem that the MOD and the wider public sector face. The armed forces are playing their role in helping to correct the deficit and get this country back on track.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

What discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the Department for Education about financial incentives to encourage retiring service personnel to take up teaching as a career, in order to get some self-respect and discipline taught to our young people in schools?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend will know that the Secretary of State for Education has announced the “troops to teachers” scheme. Work is ongoing to put the flesh on the bones of that proposal, and an announcement will be made in due course.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

10. What assessment he has made of the likely effects on the defence sector of the aircraft carrier programme.

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[John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

11. When he expects UK troops to be withdrawn from Afghanistan.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister told the House that UK force levels in Afghanistan will reduce from 9,500 to 9,000 by the end of 2012. By the end of 2014, the security transition will be complete and British troops will no longer be in a combat role. The UK and the international community are committed to Afghanistan for the long term, and a number of UK troops will remain after 2014, including in training roles at the UK-led Afghan national army officer academy.

[John Mann]

Does the Minister pay more attention to the German Foreign Minister, who wants us in Afghanistan for another 15 years, or to the people of Bassetlaw, who say that now is the time to bring our lads back home?

[Mr Hammond]

We have a clear plan for the completion of the mission in Afghanistan, which involves transitioning lead security responsibility to the ever more competent Afghan national security forces. That will be done over the next three years, resulting in the withdrawal of the overwhelming majority of our forces by the end of 2014 and the ending of our combat role. That is the position that most people in this country would want to see: a measured and properly controlled winding down of our involvement that protects the legacy that we have won with so much blood and treasure.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that any reduction in UK force strength in Afghanistan will be based on the improving situation on the ground, not on any political expediency?

[Mr Hammond]

The trajectory of the force draw-down to the end of 2014 will be determined by the evolution of events on the ground. No prior decision has been taken about the pattern of that draw-down other than that 500 troops will come out next year, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has announced.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

It was widely reported in the press that the Secretary of State had proposed to the National Security Council a draw-down that was accelerated beyond that originally envisaged. Will he tell us what the time scale for decision making is in Afghanistan? I agree with him that this is a very complex theatre of operations, and we have an absolute duty to make things as right as we can as we exit from our combat mission in Afghanistan.

[Mr Hammond]

As the right hon. Gentleman will know, the National Security Council discussed strategy on Afghanistan last week and a number of different scenarios were considered. It is clear that we must have regard to the decisions that the United States has yet to make about the pattern of its force draw-down. We will want to look again at this issue once it is clear how and when the United States will draw down its forces, but we have made no fixed commitments, other than to reduce the force level by 500 next year and to be out of the combat role by the end of 2014.

[Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

This time last year, 16 Air Assault Brigade was deployed to Helmand province. Many of those young soldiers were also there in 2008 and, based on the time line that the Secretary of State has given, I suspect that some of them be deployed yet again. However, none of those who joined the Army since February 2007 will be entitled to the Jubilee medal. Why not?

[Mr Hammond]

The simple answer is that the conditions of service requirement attached to that medal is five years’ continuous service. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that some members of 16 Air Assault Brigade might be deployed for one more Herrick tour before our operations in Afghanistan are complete, but the jubilee service medal is a separate issue and the conditions set for it are very clear.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

In this week before Christmas, our thoughts are with our forces who are separated from their families and in particular those families who continue to feel the loss of a loved one in Afghanistan.

The Bonn conference on Afghanistan cannot be considered to have been a strategic success. I am not blaming the Government for that failure—it was an international responsibility—and the Opposition remain committed to the Afghanistan mission, but for the Government, bipartisanship in Afghanistan cannot mean just getting agreement between the two parties in the coalition Government; it is also about persuading the public and Parliament. What else can the Secretary of State say about his early assessment of the levels of non-combat troop involvement from the UK that will be needed in 2015 in Afghanistan?

[Mr Hammond]

I am pleased to hear the right hon. Gentleman reiterate the Opposition’s support for the Afghanistan strategy, as it is vital that we go forward with a broad measure of consensus. On the post-2014 troop levels, no decisions have yet been made about the level of UK troops in a training, support and advisory role. We will want to take that decision nearer to the time, when we have seen what other international security assistance force nations propose to do and when the level of international funding for the Afghan national security force has been determined and committed to, so that the scale and competence level of ANSF forces can be seen clearly.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

12. What steps he is taking to support research and development of military capability in the aerospace sector.

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[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

Apologies for the delay, Mr Speaker. The Armed Forces Pay Review Body reports annually to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and to me. Its next report is expected in early 2012.

[Diana Johnson]

In the 2010 election, the Liberal Democrats promised to raise the pay of our lowest paid soldiers by as much as £6,000. The coalition is now ignoring the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, which will mean a real-terms cut, and the operational allowance, as I understand it, will benefit only a third of our armed forces personnel. Should not promises made to our armed forces be worth more than another abandoned Deputy Prime Minister election pledge?

[Mr Hammond]

I have already said in answer to an earlier question that we have doubled the operational allowance. That is critical to troops on operations and is hugely appreciated. We have increased the pay of the lowest paid members of the armed forces, even during the pay freeze, by a fixed £250, which is a more significant percentage for those on the lowest pay levels. The hon. Lady can pontificate all she likes from the Labour Benches, but the problem that we are dealing with and that we have to deal with to give our armed forces the stability and confidence they want for the future is based on the legacy of debt from and undeliverable promises made by the previous Administration.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

15. What support is available at higher and further education level for young people who want to join the armed forces; and if he will make a statement.

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[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

My departmental responsibilities are to ensure that our country is properly defended, now and in the future, through the delivery of the military tasks for which the MOD is mandated; that our service personnel have the right equipment and training to allow them to succeed in the military tasks; and that we honour our armed forces covenant. In order to discharge those duties, I have a clear responsibility to ensure that the Department has a properly balanced budget and a force generation strategy and a defence equipment programme that are affordable and sustainable in the medium to long term.

I am deeply aware that our people are the greatest assets of the armed forces, and I am sure that all Members of the House will want to join me in wishing all of them, especially those who are away from home over the festive period, a happy and a safe Christmas.

[John Glen]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. Will he update the House on the status of the service chiefs' review of force generation and sustainability, which among other things was looking at harmony guidelines? I am sure that my right hon. Friend will be aware that if he adopted the Navy’s harmony guidelines, he would secure a significant saving across the MOD.

[Mr Hammond]

The single service chiefs are reviewing force generation issues in the light of the proposed change structure of the armed forces. The issues around harmony are different in the three services, and it is right that the individual services develop harmony guidelines that are right for their conditions and allow them to operate within their single service budgets.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

The Minister with responsibility for veterans has confirmed the proposals to cut MOD police by 50%, which has been described by the Defence Police Federation as “irresponsible and ill thought out”. There will be real worries about the impact on the protection of munitions stores and barracks. Will he guarantee that there will be no cut in MOD police numbers at the most sensitive of bases, particularly Faslane and Coulport?

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[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

T2. If there was a terrorist attack on this country and the Prime Minister was killed, what would be the Secretary of State’s role in co-ordinating a military response and who would be in charge of the country? Would it be the Deputy Prime Minister?

[Mr Hammond]

As you would expect, Mr Speaker, robust arrangements are in place for dealing with any such contingency, but I will not talk about them in the Chamber today.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

Last week the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and its support group were moored off the north-east coast of Scotland. Will the Secretary of State confirm that not a single fixed-wing UK maritime patrol aircraft was available and no appropriate naval vessels were able to deploy from a Scottish base because there are none in that category?

[Mr Hammond]

The hon. Gentleman rather narrowed the scope of his question at the end by saying “able to deploy from a Scottish base”. We operate the UK armed forces and our response is on a UK-wide basis. I will check the facts of the incident and write to him.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

T3. Cyber-security is an integral part of the nation’s defences, so may I invite the new Defence Secretary to visit the wide range of cyber-security firms located in cyber valley in Malvern in my constituency?

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

What steps is the Secretary of State taking to reduce tension between the west and Iran, as there is a possibility of a war between our two countries, the consequences of which would be unimaginable?

[Mr Hammond]

The Government’s policy remains one of both applying pressure and maintaining engagement with Iran in the sincere hope that the crisis can be resolved peacefully.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

T4. May I sing in unison with my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) in congratulating the military wives and crave your indulgence, Mr Speaker, on this festive occasion by presenting an advance copy of the disc, via my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) who is sitting in front of me, to the Secretary of State for his enjoyment on one of the long car journeys that I know he enjoys so much?

[Mr Hammond]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I had the great pleasure of meeting members of the military wives choir when they performed at Downing street a couple of weeks ago, and we wish them every success for a Christmas No. 1 next week.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State believe that the utility of military force as an instrument of UK foreign policy is more relevant or less relevant than it was, say, 30 years ago, and how does he intend to reflect that in future UK defence policy?

[Mr Hammond]

That is a very deep but helpful question. The Government are clearly committed to integrating defence diplomacy with our wider diplomatic effort to ensure that the UK’s Government-wide objectives are best delivered through the use of all the assets available, including our defence assets, and my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and I will publish our strategy for defence engagement in the new year.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

T5. I warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s announcement today that he is setting up a Cabinet Committee to deal with all matters relating to the armed services and veterans. I ask that the Committee prioritises housing issues, which are referred to often, and that there is an indication of how colleagues in this House and members of the armed services and their families outside can give evidence to the Committee.

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[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The previous Government established the St Malo agreement with France, and the previous Secretary of State for Defence took it further. Will the current Secretary of State have words with the Prime Minister to ensure that his current attitude to France does not damage our important programme of defence co-operation?

[Mr Hammond]

I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that the Prime Minister’s attitude is that we have a commonality of interests in securing strong defence in Europe, and that bilateral relationships between Britain and France will be mutually beneficial to both countries. We are advancing our defence co-operation with France and expect to conduct a defence summit in February.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

T8. I welcome the news that armed forces personnel will be used to aid security at the Olympics games, but will any of those returning from Afghanistan end up having their post-operational leave cancelled and, instead, be posted to Olympic duties?

[Mr Hammond]

Some of those returning from Afghanistan may at some point be involved in Olympic duties, but no one will lose their post-operational leave. Post-operational leave has to be scheduled anyway, and it will be scheduled around the requirements of the Olympic task.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

May I press the Minister for more detailed figures on the capacity being built at Aldermaston for a possible new warhead? When will he announce the specific breakdown of costs associated with that and, in particular, with the Octans and Orchard programmes, and will he do so through a statement to the House, rather than by slipping it out in a written answer?

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

T9. The Secretary of State will understand the significance of the fact that only 3% of Afghan security forces are from the Pashtun south, particularly when it comes to how successful our handover will be in 2014. What progress is being made to improve the imbalance in ethnicities before our troops withdraw?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to that continuing issue. The Pashtun percentage in the ANSF is very much higher than 3%, but he is right that Pashtun recruits tend to be northern rather than southern. The ANSF has strategies to address that, and the situation is slowly improving, but it remains one of the important issues that has to be addressed if we are to create a stable and sustainable Afghan Government.

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[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

On service pay, the Secretary of State for Defence has again prayed in aid the operational allowance. For my benefit, will he confirm how many, in percentage terms, of our service personnel will receive that operational allowance over the next three years?

[Mr Hammond]

I am doing the maths on my feet; there are about 9,500 people in Afghanistan on a five-cycle rotation, so the answer is about 45,000 or 47,000 of our armed forces personnel.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

Following the failure of the congressional committee to agree savings as part of the deal to raise the debt ceiling, the US military faces automatic spending cuts of up to $500 billion from 2013. What reassurances have Ministers sought specifically about the impact that that may have on UK-US co-operation in intelligence and counter-terrorism?

[Mr Hammond]

I assure my hon. Friend that we are having regular discussions with US counterparts; I am going to Washington immediately after the new year holiday. Whatever happens, our strong security and intelligence relationship with the US will continue. It benefits both parties and is at the very heart of our strategy.

[Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

On Friday, I attended a ceremony to commemorate the 97th anniversary of the bombardment of the Hartlepools. It was the first direct attack on the mainland for centuries, and 118 people, including 37 children, were killed. Given the national and local significance of the event, what steps will the Government put in place to commemorate the centenary in three years’ time?

[Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con)]

Given the sterling performance of RAF Marham servicemen in Libya and the strategic and economic advantages of the base, when a decision is made in the spring about basing for the joint strike fighter, will RAF Marham not be the ideal candidate?

[Mr Hammond]

I give my hon. Friend full marks for her persistence on behalf of her constituency interest, but I have to tell her that it is far too early to make a decision about where the joint strike fighter will be based.