Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill

Neil Hudson Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 21st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Peter Gibson]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his intervention. He raises a very important point about the cost, which I will address in further detail later in my speech. However, it is safe to say that a notional cost is already being borne by many local authorities as part of their membership of the national anti-fraud framework. It is for the Minister to decide whether to designate that database for the use of this legislation, if we are successful in getting it on to the statute book, and whether the Government fully fund it themselves or pass the relatively nominal cost on to a local authority.

Licensing authorities will then be required to search the database when processing each licensing application to ascertain whether the applicant has had a licence suspended, refused or revoked by another licensing authority. If there is a relevant entry on the database, the authority will be obliged to request further details of that adverse decision and have regard to the information considered by the other licensing authority when making its own decision. To be clear, the database would only record instances in which a licensing authority suspended, refused or revoked a driver’s licence due to safeguarding or road safety concerns: it would not hold details of that decision. The details would remain held by the relevant licensing authority, and would need to be requested on a case-by-case basis where an application is made to another local authority by an individual whose name appears on the register.

[Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend, the proud champion for Darlington, on having introduced this Bill and on getting it so far. I fully support the Bill, which will improve the safety of passengers in taxis and private hire vehicles, and I echo his comments about the cross-party nature of working on this issue; he has mentioned the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner). It is so important that we work together across the House on important issues such as this.

However, does my hon. Friend agree that the history of the licensing regime goes back to an era when private hire vehicles of any sort were very unlikely to go out of their own area and operated in very small geographical areas? The regime dates back to a different time, but now the situation has evolved. That is why things need to change.

[Peter Gibson]

My hon. Friend raises an incredibly important point. Much of our legislation dates back to previous eras when people did not travel outside their local authority areas, but now vehicles licensed in one local authority could operate entirely in another. Far from being even in neighbouring local authorities, they could be in completely disparate parts of the country.

In the interests of ensuring that the latest and most relevant information is available to the licensing authority, the Bill stipulates that licensing authorities must input the decision details within five working days of notifying the driver of their decision. During the 11 years that the record would be held on the database, the licensing authority must also ensure that it is kept up to date to reflect any changes, such as if the driver successfully appeals the original decision—as indeed they will be able to, just as they may now.

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[Dr Hudson]

If you will forgive me for making a second cricket analogy in two days, Mr Speaker, I cannot resist the opportunity to break my duck and intervene on the hon. Member. On his point about how different parts of the United Kingdom can learn from each other, does he agree, as a Northern Ireland Member, that legislation through which we can share best practice across the United Kingdom shows us how important our precious Union is?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman. He is right that I am a committed Unionist and I would always love to see this great nation as one; everybody from Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England is better together. He is pushing at an open door with that point. He makes a serious point, however, about how we can learn. It is important to share details, legislation and ideas, and to share what is right and what is successful, and then do that across this great nation.

Whether the figures in Northern Ireland are a result of the pandemic is another topic. I welcome the safeguarding aspects of the Bill, to which the hon. Member for Darlington referred. The main concept of the Bill is to ensure that only those fit to hold a licence are entrusted to carry the public. We could not ask for more—that is a key point. On Second Reading, he stated that the Bill aims to

“protect the hundreds of thousands of…drivers from having their reputation tarnished…by the abhorrent behaviour of a small minority”.—[Official Report, 10 September 2021; Vol. 700, c. 596.]

I repeat that today because it is a key part of the issue.

Many local government associations welcome the Bill as it would make it mandatory for licensing authorities to access vital background information about drivers seeking a licence in their relevant areas. That fully supports the use of councils, as they can ensure that those using taxi or private hire services are kept safe. With that in mind, I am sure that we in Northern Ireland, where it is a devolved matter, will make that happen, as the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Dr Hudson) said and the hon. Member for Darlington wants, too.

Licensing laws need to be brought up to date, which is what we are doing today. The Bill will take us to the next stage of enshrining safeguarding and protection in legislation. We live in a world where regulations, guidelines and policy are everything, so this is an opportunity for protection to be brought in, for legislation to be updated and to secure better travel for our constituents. The Bill aims to make the licensing system for taxis and PHVs fit for the 21st century, which will ultimately benefit both passengers and trade. We should all welcome that, because it is a step in the right direction for taxi companies and passengers who travel.

I feel strongly that more power to deal with allegations of crime or misconduct should be given to local authorities. The process of an investigation could well be delayed for months otherwise. For the protection of our constituents, the Bill takes us that stage further. Local agencies should have the power to deal with this matter in their areas. When working with the private sector, we must ensure that our constituents get every level of protection.

This Bill enables all licensing authorities to record and input into the database instances where they have refused to grant or renew a driver’s licence, or have suspended or revoked the licence because of a certain safeguarding or road-safety concern. I welcome the recent announcement of £14 million to help the taxi industry deal with the impact of the pandemic. We often say—it is the truth—that the Government stepped up to help businesses during the pandemic, and we are all deeply indebted to them for that. They have helped my constituents, along with all the constituents in this great nation represented by MPs in this House.

I believe that further discussion should be undertaken between the Minister, the Department and the devolved nations to see how we can further protect the public. I appreciate that data and information can be shared if necessary, but there should be a further conversation on the timescale. When the Minister sums up, can she indicate what conversations have been had with the devolved Administrations? That would tie in with what the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border said in his intervention and what the hon. Member for Darlington said. If there is something good here, we should share it.

To conclude, I welcome the comments of hon. Members who have spoken so far. I look forward to the contributions from those who follow, from both sides of the Chamber, particularly from the hon. Member for Ilford South (Sam Tarry) and the Minister.

I wish the hon. Member for Darlington well for the remainder of this important Bill’s legislative process. When it comes to public safety, it is crucial that we play our part in protecting the general public by having the correct guidelines in place. For that reason, this House, the Minister and the Government have much to thank the hon. Member for Darlington for in introducing this Bill.

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[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

rose—

[Dr Hudson]

rose—

[Paul Holmes]

I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild) first.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Holmes]

I shall respond to that excellent point after I have given way to my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border.

[Dr Hudson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way to a double-headed intervention. His points about the database are well made—it is important that authorities can access and share information—but does he agree that with central databases it is so important that the information is shareable but kept secure?

[Paul Holmes]

I thank both my hon. Friends. I have taken a double-header; I shall respond first to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk, who makes a good point. There is of course an appeals process in the existing licensing regime and the Bill will not harm it at all. In fact, it will do the reverse by making it easier for local authorities to get all the information they need and allowing the driver going through the appeals process to be confident that the local authority will get the full information it needs from throughout the country, if that driver has served under two licensing authorities.

My hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border makes the good point that having a central database should not mean that local authorities keep information inappropriately. I agree with him that drivers should be reassured that their information will be used properly.