Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Safeguarding and Road Safety) Bill

James Wild Excerpts

3rd reading
Friday 21st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Paul Holmes]

Yes, they are. Licensing authorities can ask for such information but my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington is trying to mitigate the fact that that process does not show whether drivers have had not necessarily criminal convictions but suspensions or revocations because they have not kept their vehicle up to scratch or have committed some sort of misdemeanour. There is provision for that in the existing licensing regime but it does not go far enough, which is why the Bill needs to become law.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington has outlined, the problem is widespread. Local authorities are not required to share information and people whose licences have been suspended, refused or revoked can carry on working elsewhere. My hon. Friend has absolutely the balance right in respect of the need to protect the information of drivers who play by the rules and those who may have had a mishap, because his Bill allows that information to be shared only on a case-by-case basis. That will reassure the decent, honourable taxi drivers out there who play by the rules that this is a safety mechanism, not an attacking mechanism. That is vital.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

rose—

[Dr Hudson]

rose—

[Paul Holmes]

I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild) first.

[James Wild]

The removal of a taxi driver’s licence takes away their livelihood so, given my hon. Friend’s experience on a licensing committee, will he reassure me that the Bill will not affect the appeals processes that are in place?

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Holmes]

I thank my hon. Friend, who is an expert on the Bill because he wrote it, for that clarification. He will have reassured Members from all parties and has just added to the reasons why the Bill should be passed today.

[James Wild]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for taking a second intervention. To return again to his experience on a licensing committee, will he say what proportion of applications for private hire licences were rejected? Would he expect that proportion to increase when local authorities have additional information?

[Paul Holmes]

My hon. Friend tempts me to hark back to my career in local government around 12 years ago—[Interruption.] I know I do not look old enough, as someone very kindly said. I do not think the Bill will have an impact on the number of cases that would be refused. What it would do is allow that information to be shared with councillors. Officers take their responsibilities very seriously and perform them impartially, independently and without fear or favour, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster said. I do not think the legislation would have an undue effect on the number of cases that would be refused or granted.

To come back to my speech after those wonderful interventions, the system is outdated as there is no obligation on local authorities to report the concerns about drivers to the home authority. At present, we are in effect allowing an unsafe system. I am not saying that in a melodramatic way or trying to raise concerns about the thousands of drivers that behave properly and provide a backbone to the country, but the current system has some large loopholes and can be unsafe for some people—perhaps not unsafe, but negligent—in allowing the cross-country approach. That is why my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington should be congratulated.

In clause 2, my hon. Friend has thought exactly of that point, with a reasonable time period to record a suspension from local authorities of five days. That would not put an undue or onerous duty on local authority officers, particularly those in licensing teams who work in that atmosphere every day. That is not unreasonable. Clause 2 also provides for that information to be kept on the database for a period of 11 years, and that gets the balance just right. It is not too onerous for drivers to think that if they leave the profession or want to come back to it the information will be kept on for too long. The Bill may be seen by some as onerous for the taxi driver. I do not agree, because those people who have played by the rules, and may have been in the career for 30 years, will have nothing to hide, and they should be reassured by the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) on successfully stewarding the Bill through to Third Reading. It is right to acknowledge what others have done, including the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner), who brought forward similar proposals. I hope that he enjoyed his visit a few weeks ago to my North West Norfolk constituency.

At its core, the Bill is about public safety, and giving people greater confidence, when they get in the back of a taxi or private hire vehicle, that the driver has been properly checked out. We legislators have a duty to consider carefully whether legislation is necessary. I recognise that the Bill builds on the approach set out in the Government-issued statutory taxi and private hire vehicle standards, which recommend that licensing authorities share information with other authorities, because better information will lead to better decisions.

The Bill will benefit local authorities—and, through them, the public—by ensuring that they have as much relevant information as possible when considering new applications or renewal applications. It will also mean that local authorities are aware of incidents in other areas involving drivers whom they have licenced. It closes a loophole that means that local authorities are not required to share information. That prevents other authorities from being able to make an informed decision, and as others have highlighted, that creates the potential for a driver who is refused a licence to move to another area to apply for a licence there. As my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington said, that is a crazy situation. The Bill represents a proportionate and welcome response to that, and will help local authorities protect the public.

Constituents have raised with me the difficulty in getting taxi drivers to accept passengers with assistance dogs; they are turned away by drivers. Research by the charity Guide Dogs found that the businesses most commonly reported to have refused access included minicabs and private hire vehicles; 72% of respondents reported that happening to them. These refusals are deeply distressing to the individuals involved. They damage their confidence and undermine their independence and ability to live their life. Of course, it is already an offence under the Equality Act 2010 for taxi and private hire vehicle drivers to refuse to carry an assistance dog; they can be fined up to £1,000.

In 2019, the Government accepted a recommendation that all taxi and minicab drivers be required to have disability equality training. I would be grateful to the Minister for an update on that for my constituents and Guide Dogs, and on the steps that the Government are taking to encourage drivers and companies to do that training voluntarily. Given the importance of the issue, I welcome the fact that passengers with assistance dogs and wheelchair passengers will be covered by the clause 1 “Relevant information” provisions, which require information to be passed on if a person poses a safeguarding risk. I welcome the fact that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington confirmed, there is no effect on the appeals process or panels, or on the rights that taxi drivers have when decisions go against them.

I am always focused on the question of when legislation commences. In my experience as a special adviser in various Departments, I found that too often a lot of energy was focused on bringing forward measures; less energy was spent on bringing them into force. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister is on the case with her officials to make sure that the measures are implemented as rapidly as possible.

Finally, I lend my support to the campaign launched a decade ago by the noble Lord Finkelstein against the misuse of the prefix “pre”. Private hire cars are often festooned with signs saying, “Pre-booked only”. The explanatory notes fall into the same trap. These cars are not pre-booked; they are just booked. If we can end this preposterous prefix use, that would be a little win for pedants everywhere. I support the Bill.