Michael Fallon
Main Page: Michael Fallon (Conservative - Sevenoaks)Department Debates - View all Michael Fallon's debates with the Ministry of Defence
(9 years, 2 months ago)
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Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)
18. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the UK contribution to international efforts to degrade and defeat ISIL.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)
The UK is making a significant contribution to the coalition of more than 60 countries, supporting the Iraqi security forces to deny ISIL the freedom to operate in 30% of the Iraqi territory it once held, helping Syrian Kurds take 17,000 sq km from ISIL in Syria, and degrading ISIL’s ability to refine oil or to access the international financial system.
Stuart Andrew
I am grateful for that answer. It has been truly horrifying to see the atrocities being committed by Daesh in Iraq. Can my right hon. Friend tell the House what difference the British training to counter explosive devices will make to the Iraqi security forces’ ability to recapture territory?
Michael Fallon
The UK military is focusing its efforts on areas where we can bring particular expertise and I am pleased to announce today that the new courses of counter-IED training for Iraqi ground forces are starting this week following the Prime Minister’s pledge in the summer that we would increase the number of personnel assisting the Iraqi Government’s counter-ISIL efforts. These 54 personnel, drawn mainly from 33 Engineer Regiment (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) from Saffron Walden, are delivering life-saving counter-IED instruction to members of the Iraqi security forces at training centres in Bismayah and Taji.
Julie Elliott
What assessment has the Secretary of State made of interrupting the flow of oil across ISIS borders over which ISIS holds a monopoly?
Michael Fallon
We are part of the international coalition of more than 60 countries, as I said, and the hon. Lady is right that we need to continue to degrade ISIL’s ability to export its oil or to trade in oil across the border areas. There is specific coalition work under way on that. We have more work to do.
Nick Smith
May I press the Secretary of State on this? What progress has the UK and its coalition partners made in disrupting the ability of ISIS to raise significant funds? I understand it earns $1.5 million a day through selling oil.
Michael Fallon
Some of the military operations—the strikes—have changed the pattern of refining. ISIL appears now to be getting some of its oil from small-scale wells rather than the larger refineries, some of which have been put out of commission, but we are intensifying our efforts internationally to make sure that where ISIL is attempting to sell oil, it is not able to gain the proceeds from it.
James Morris
ISIL poses a direct threat to our national interest as well as threatening the stability of the middle east, and Britain should not be a bit-part player in combating ISIL on the ground. Does the Secretary of State agree that the time has come for Britain to extend its military operations beyond Iraq to take on ISIL in Syria?
Michael Fallon
I agree with my hon. Friend that ISIL has to be defeated in both Iraq and Syria, and we support the air strikes being conducted by the coalition against ISIL in Syria—air strikes which are now being carried out by Australian and French as well as American aircraft. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said, there is a very strong case for us to be doing more in Syria to deal with the heartland of ISIL—its command and control—but we will only return to Parliament for authority to do so when we have established a sufficient consensus here in this Parliament.
Sir Oliver Heald
Does my right hon. Friend agree that unmanned aerial vehicles have an important role to play both in intelligence gathering and in targeting in the effort against ISIL, and that the recent announcement of the 2% budget for defence over time will mean we can continue to invest in these vital modern technologies?
Michael Fallon
I entirely agree with my hon. and learned Friend. Our remotely piloted aircraft play a key role in current operations in the middle east and the 2% commitment enables us to obtain more of them. We have a moral duty to protect the lives of our servicemen and women to the best of our ability, and the use of remotely piloted aircraft avoids placing our aircrews in jeopardy.
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)
If ISIL is degraded in Syria, what assessment has been made of whether the vacuum will simply be filled by Assad?
Michael Fallon
ISIL is being directed from an area of north-east Syria where Assad has no control at the moment. That is where it has its command and control, its logistics, its personnel and the command of its supply routes from Syria into Iraq. It is well away from most of the civil war that is raging further west in Syria.
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)
This is not just about Iraq and Syria. On 24 September, affiliates of Daesh claimed responsibility for the explosion in the central mosque in Sana’a in Yemen. ISIL is taking advantage of the civil war to extend its operations in that country. What is being done to stop it?
Michael Fallon
We agree that the legitimate Government of Yemen is that led by President Hadi, and to that extent we support the efforts of Saudi Arabia and its partners to ensure that President Hadi can again be recognised as president of the country. We also want the fighting there to stop so that we can get much-needed food aid and fuel into Yemen, where millions of people are now at risk of starvation. In the end, however, this is a war that must be brought to a conclusion through some kind of political settlement.
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Will the Secretary of State tell me whether the year-long bombing campaign in Syria has improved the stability and security of the region? Does he think that it has brought peace closer?
Michael Fallon
As I said in my original answer, it has reduced the ability of ISIL to operate, particularly in Iraq. To that extent, the coalition strikes in Syria are useful to that campaign. Given that ISIL is a danger to the people of this country as well as to the security of that region, and bearing in mind that 30 of our holidaymakers, including four Scots, were slaughtered on a beach in an ISIL attack in Tunisia, it would not be right for the task of defeating ISIL in Syria in order to keep our streets safe to be left to French, Australian and American aircraft.
Brendan O'Hara
The Secretary of State says that military personnel from America, Australia, Russia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Libya, Egypt, France, Jordan, Iran, Belarus and North Korea are already in Syria, along with the peshmerga, the Free Syrian Army and Daesh. What does he think the UK dropping even more bombs is likely to achieve? Should not the United Kingdom be using its influence in the United Nations to pursue peace through diplomacy rather than gearing up for airstrikes?
Michael Fallon
ISIL has been butchering our own civilians, killing people of other faiths and throwing gay people off buildings. With respect, I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that I find the idea that it would suddenly cave in to diplomacy in the form of a United Nations resolution a little naive. ISIL has to be defeated in Iraq and in Syria, and the coalition would welcome the precision capability that our Tornado aircraft could bring in Syria, as they have done in Iraq.
Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab)
When the Secretary of State was asked on “The Andrew Marr Show” at the weekend whether it was still his intention or his hope that RAF jets would be flying over Syrian airspace to tackle the threat of ISIL/Daesh before too long, he said that “the logic is inescapable”. Opposition Members will consider any Government proposal on this with the utmost seriousness, but in view of that reply, will he tell the House whether it is still his intention to ask for parliamentary approval ahead of any such intervention and, if so, when he expects any such vote to take place?
Michael Fallon
I should like to begin by welcoming the shadow Secretary of State to her first Defence questions and by welcoming the team that she has assembled alongside her. I made it clear yesterday, as I have done today, that ISIL has to be defeated in both countries, not least if we are to support the democratic Government of Iraq and help to keep our own country safe. This is a new Parliament and we will continue to work with colleagues across the House to build a consensus that will allow the RAF to operate in north-east Syria and not have to turn back at the border. When we have established that consensus, we will come to the House for the authority to act.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Countless past campaigns show that air strikes are seldom, if ever, decisive unless they are in support of credible ground forces. What credible ground forces are fighting Daesh in Syria, other than the Kurds, in limited areas, and Assad’s, which are not also Islamist?
Michael Fallon
There are moderate opposition forces contesting against Assad, trying to protect their towns and cities from the brutality of Assad, who is of course dropping barrel bombs on them—on his own people. The coalition is helping these moderate opposition groups where it can, with training and with equipment. Our troops have been helping to train some of those forces, outside Syria.
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)
If this Parliament were to approve an extension of UK engagement in the conflict in Syria and Iraq, that would be predicated on an understanding that we will be relying on reservists as never before, because of the changing shape of our UK defence capability. Will the Secretary of State therefore update the House on the roles currently being undertaken by reservists in operations against ISIL?
Michael Fallon
I understand that about 10% of the personnel operating in the middle east as part of our operations against ISIL are reservists, and they play an increasing part in our operations around the world.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
6. What the rules of engagement are for the use of remotely piloted aircraft in tackling terrorism; and if he will make a statement.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
13. Which elements of his Department’s expenditure will contribute both to the target of 2% of GDP for defence and to the target of 0.7% of GNI for overseas development assistance.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)
The Ministry of Defence directly funds overseas development assistance eligible activity up to £5 million a year, including disaster relief training and international capacity building. This counts towards the NATO 2% guideline. The costs of conflict, stability and security fund programme activities led by the Ministry of Defence, and security and humanitarian operations, which are partly refunded from the Department for International Development budget, will also contribute to the ODA target.
Patrick Grady
The ministerial team will notice that that is not a question about defence of the north coast. When Back Benchers cheered the two commitments on aid and military spending, I wonder if they were fully aware that that is, in effect, double counting of expenditure. Does the Minister accept that although this may be technically permitted, morally it is a contradiction in terms? Will he do all he can to minimise such double counting in the future?
Michael Fallon
Rules for what is counted and what is not counted are set for NATO expenditure by NATO and for overseas development expenditure by the OECD, so these are international rules. However, I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. There is expenditure—defence and overseas aid—that counts towards security. Stabilising countries, preventing conflicts, peacekeeping—all that contributes to the security of our country, as well as that of some of the more fragile regions of the world.
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)
My right hon. Friend knows that I am so enthusiastic about the Government’s commitment to spending 2% of GDP on defence that I have my private Member’s Bill to enable the Government to join me in enshrining support for that commitment in law. In advance of that, can my right hon. Friend confirm the figures given to me by the Library that in reporting to NATO to meet our 2% commitment in 2015-16, we have added items of expenditure not previously included under defence? They were provision for war pensions, £820 million; assessed contributions to UN peacekeeping missions, £400 million; pensions for retired civilian MOD personnel, around £200 million; and much of MOD’s £1.4 billion of income, which makes more than £2.5 billion.
Michael Fallon
I look forward to my hon. Friend making his case on Friday. Let me be clear that expenditure from the defence budget is, of course, defence spending. It is not spent by any other Department. But it is in any case up to NATO to rule on what is eligible and what is not eligible.
Callum McCaig (Aberdeen South) (SNP)
14. What lessons his Department has learned from military action in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq which will inform a decision on possible UK military intervention in Syria.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
17. What lessons his Department has learned from military action in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq which will inform a decision on possible UK military intervention in Syria.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)
The Department has conducted a number of lessons-learned exercises during and after military operations in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq, in particular that military action needs to be set in the wider political context. In Syria, for example, the long-term solution to the current conflict, and to the presence of ISIL, has to be an acceptable political transition, and we continue to work to support this.
Callum McCaig
I welcome the commitment that any military action in Syria will be combined with efforts to rebuild the country. The Secretary of State said in an earlier answer that efforts are ongoing to build a consensus about taking military action in Syria. Can he give us some idea of the progress in building a consensus about rebuilding the country?
Michael Fallon
Yes. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and other leaders were recently in New York at the United Nations General Assembly pressing all their colleagues to search for a political solution that would enable the formation of a more comprehensive Government who would appeal to and attract from all parts of Syrian society, whether Kurdish, Shi’a, Sunni, Christian, Druze, or whatever. We have such a comprehensive Government in Iraq; it is time now to find one for Syria too.
Martyn Day
What consideration has the Defence Secretary given to the financial and human cost of air strikes in Syria?
Michael Fallon
There is certainly a cost to military operations, but there is a greater cost in our not dealing with the growth and spread of ISIL across the middle east. We are doing this in response to a request from the democratic, legitimate Government of Iraq to come to their aid. We are also doing it for the greater stability of the region and, ultimately, to keep our own streets safe.
Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)
It is not a view I hold, but it is at least an entirely rational view, to say that Britain should never get involved in any military operations in the middle east. It is also rational to say that Britain should get involved in military operations across the whole area that our enemy occupies. Surely what is irrational is to do that just for part of it, and to recognise a border that ISIL, in this case, simply does not recognise.
Michael Fallon
I agree with my hon. Friend. Not taking action when one has the ability to do so also has consequences. I respect the position of various Members of this House in the previous vote two years ago, but a large number of people have died in Syria at the hands of Assad since this House was asked before to take action to stop him slaughtering his own citizens.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
16. What steps his Department has taken to mitigate the effects of low-flying exercises on rural areas.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
The Secretary of State for Defence (Michael Fallon)
My immediate priorities are our operations against ISIL and the strategic defence and security review. July’s announcement that the defence budget will increase every year and that we will continue to meet the NATO 2% target means that we are now able to decide what further capabilities and equipment we need to keep this country safe.
Andrew Gwynne
Does the Secretary of State understand that any intervention in Syria has to be part of a wider series of actions, including creating safe areas for the civilian population to try to stem the refugee crisis, increasing humanitarian aid, bringing those responsible for war crimes to account, and trying to build a plan for peace in the region?
Michael Fallon
I agree with that. We have to look at this across the board, and not simply focus on military action. That is why we are also pursuing the political track of looking for a wider political settlement in Syria. The hon. Gentleman is right about encouraging other countries to match the commitment we have made financially to helping refugees, on behalf of this country, in Syria. Safe havens would of course require quite significant military force to police.
Johnny Mercer (Plymouth, Moor View) (Con)
T3. I am proud to be a member of a party that takes mental health seriously. One of its first acts in 2010 was to commission the Murrison report on mental health in the armed forces. How far have we got with that? Has an audit been conducted? If not, would now be a good time to do so?
Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab)
The national security strategy of 2010 identified cyber-attack, including by other states, as one of the four highest priority national security risks facing the UK. Does the Secretary of State agree that that is still the case?
Michael Fallon
Yes, I certainly do. The cyber threat—not simply from other states, but from non-state actors—remains very real. We are investing heavily in this area and the responsibility for the cyber programme is being transferred from the Cabinet Office to my Ministry, to make sure it is properly co-ordinated.
Maria Eagle
That is an interesting answer. The Times has reported:
“A well-placed defence source said that senior military officers were very concerned by the prospect of China building a nuclear power station in Britain.”
The Financial Times reports that our closest allies in other western capitals regard the policy as
“bizarre at best and craven and dangerous at worst”,
and says that China specialists at the Foreign Office are “in despair.” The Ministry of Defence’s own policy adviser, Paul Dorfman, asserts:
“America wouldn’t dream of letting China have such a part in its critical national infrastructure. The idea the UK is prepared to do so is, frankly, astounding.”
Will the Secretary of State therefore explain to the Chancellor and the Prime Minister, while there is still time, that they are putting our national security at risk in doing this deal?
Michael Fallon
I hope the hon. Lady will join me in welcoming the President of China on his visit to this country this week. On Chinese participation in the Hinkley Point power station, let me be very clear that it is a financial investment. It is a French-designed reactor and a French-built power station, and it will be supported by Chinese finance. In any case, we have independent regulation of our nuclear sites, and that regulation includes all aspects of security as well as of safety.
Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)
T5. With other Departments facing budget reductions, will my right hon. Friend assure me that he will continue to make efficiency savings that can go back into the frontline?
Michael Fallon
Absolutely. Although my Department’s budget is rising again, there will be no let-up in getting more value for money. We have a strong record of delivering efficiency savings, including some £5 billion in the last Parliament. For the first time, as a result of the July Budget, every pound we save can now be reinvested in the frontline rather than handed back to the Treasury, so we can spend more not simply on ships and planes, but on cyber, as we have discussed, and on unmanned aircraft and the latest technologies.
Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)
T2. What steps is the Department taking to ensure that the UK defence industry, as well as the multibillion pound domestic supply chain, benefits fully from the procurement decisions that will be taken and outlined as part of the forthcoming strategic defence and security review?
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
T6. In the 19th century, the Royal Navy disrupted and eventually halted the evil slave trade from Africa to other parts of the world. What action can my right hon. Friend take to ensure that the Royal Navy now disrupts and prevents evil people from trafficking people from Africa on unseaworthy boats, so that they do not lose their lives in the Mediterranean?
Michael Fallon
The United Kingdom was instrumental in securing the recent Security Council resolution 2240, which authorises all navies to take action against smugglers and human traffickers on the high seas in the Mediterranean. This will support the efforts of HMS Enterprise and HMS Richmond, which is taking up its station off the Libyan coast this week, in contributing to the naval operations in the Mediterranean and tackling this evil trade as it occurs.
Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP)
T8. Will the Defence Secretary confirm what support our armed forces are giving to the people of the Philippines in this difficult time?
Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)
Sensible people out there will think the world has gone mad if the Government allow companies controlled by the Chinese Government, and which helped to develop their nuclear weapons, to take a large stake in Britain’s nuclear power industry. The shadow Secretary of State was completely right to raise this matter. Will the Secretary of State tell us what assessment his Department has made of the risks and national security considerations of giving a communist dictatorship such a huge role in such a critical part of Britain’s national infrastructure?
Michael Fallon
Unlike the hon. Gentleman, we welcome the fact that there is Chinese investment in this country, just as there is British investment in China. As I have already made clear to the House, this is financial investment in a French-led project to build a new power station at Hinkley Point. Our independent nuclear regulator is well able to ensure that all security and safety aspects are considered.
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)
My right hon. Friends know that I have repeatedly raised on the Floor of the House my concerns about the way in which the Chinese Government are building runways and port facilities on uninhabited and disputed atolls in the South China sea. Although my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State—and, no doubt, the Prime Minister, who I am pleased to see in his place—will welcome the Chinese President, do the Government have plans to raise with China the way in which they are seriously escalating tension in the South China sea to the detriment of many of our allies in the region, to which we have a responsibility under the five power defence arrangements?
Michael Fallon
I hope that my hon. Friend, too, will welcome the President of China on his state visit to our country this week, just as we welcomed ships of the Chinese navy on their visit to Portsmouth earlier this year. We welcome the growing military relationship between the armed forces of our two countries. All countries that trade internationally have an interest, as he said, in the peaceful navigation of the South China sea.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
Syria is not Iraq or Afghanistan, but this country made some poor decisions in those countries, particularly in Afghanistan, in operational and intelligence matters that we must learn from. Most of all, surely we need to learn from the lack of clarity in our strategic objectives that so badly affected the war in Afghanistan. Listening to the Secretary of State today, I think that such a lack of clarity is still evident when he talks about Syria.
Michael Fallon
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, we are of course learning the necessary tactical lessons from that campaign, as we do with any campaign. I made the point much earlier that ISIL has to be defeated in both Iraq and Syria. It is somewhat illogical, when ISIL presents such a grave threat to the Government of Iraq, the stability of the region and our own streets, that our aircraft have to turn back at the Iraqi border.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
I was recently appointed president of the 1206 Mercian air cadet squadron. Will my hon. Friend let me and, more to the point, the air cadets know what further opportunities there might be for them to obtain flying experience with the Royal Air Force?
Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that some of the concerns about Chinese investment in critical infrastructure in this country, which have understandably been raised, can be placated by reference to the work that has been done between our security services and Huawei in relation to investment in telecommunications? Will he look on that as a useful template that can be utilised as and when there is investment in the nuclear industry by Chinese investors?
Michael Fallon
I will certainly look at that example. However, as I said earlier, when there are security concerns about any of our power stations or other parts of the nuclear grid, it is up to the office of the independent regulator to ensure that they are fully protected.