New Homes (Solar Generation) Bill

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 17th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I move the Bill with sunshine in my heart. I am an environmentalist, I have fought for years to improve the housing market in my town of Cheltenham, and I strongly believe that we all deserve a fairer deal on the cost of living. I was elected in July after campaigning on those three issues, and I move Second Reading of the Bill with those issues in mind. I thank hon. Members who have taken the time to attend today’s debate, and I urge them to retain a sunny disposition for the next few hours. I am happy to take interventions from Members from across the House, but I hope hon. Members will not use them to throw too much shade. I promise a warm response regardless, and I hope the Minister will provide the same.

Today, we can all make a commitment to a brighter future by backing the sunshine Bill. It will be a future in which people have lower household bills; we are less reliant on dirty and expensive fossil fuels, often imported from abroad; and the country’s energy supplies are more secure. This future is a vision supported by voters across political divides, as well as by industry.

Before I get to the core of my speech, I ask hon. Members to think back a few short years, to the start of the energy bills crisis. Householders endured a 54% rise in the energy price cap in April 2022, and bills remain 43% higher than they were before the crisis. That caused widespread fuel poverty. We witnessed another shocking increase in food bank use, businesses went bust, jobs were lost and family holiday plans were cancelled. The crisis also laid bare how short-sighted past ideological decisions were to slow down the roll-out of renewable technologies.

Imagine an alternative. Imagine that more homes included solar power generation during that crisis, and in the ongoing crisis. Bills could and should have been hundreds of pounds lower for everyone; householders would have been insulated against higher bills; and our nation would have been safer and stronger. Food banks would have been less busy, and the Government would not have been forced to give such large subsidies to ensure that people could get by.

At the heart of the discussion is a pressing need to tackle twin crises: the cost of living and climate change. As hon. Members will know, the climate change discussion often leads us to debate difficult trade-offs—the Government are grappling with those and they have my good wishes in doing so—but solar energy generation on new build homes is very much not in that category. The Bill helps us to tackle the cost of living and climate change—a clear win-win.

MCS Foundation research has shown that the payback period for a solar array on a three-bedroom semi-detached house is just four years, when that array is combined with other technologies that will be widely available in the next few years. Over a 25-year mortgage, the savings stand at a whopping £38,000. Solar technology also offers homeowners the chance to profit directly. The Energy Saving Trust estimates that a typical household could make between £270 and £400 a year.

On the environmental side, research by Solar Energy UK shows that buildings accounted for 20% of all UK emissions in 2023. The Government have placed building new homes at the heart of their agenda, which I support.

[Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)]

I genuinely welcome today’s Second Reading of the Bill. Having brought two private Members’ Bills through Parliament from the Back Benches, I wish the hon. Gentleman every success; it can be a long journey. Will he say more about the impact of solar panels on the environment and the green belt? In the shift towards using more solar panels, I fear many of the panels will be installed on prime agricultural land. I am disappointed that in Walsall, the planning inspector has just given permission for a battery storage facility on the edge of my constituency, right by a conservation area. I feel strongly that we need to look at alternative places for solar panels in order to protect communities and our green belt.

[Max Wilkinson]

The right hon. Lady is entirely right. She and Members across the House will have noted that the Campaign to Protect Rural England has taken a strong interest in this issue and in the Bill, for precisely the reasons she describes, with which I have a lot of sympathy. Efficient use of land and space in this country is extremely important.

If we are to achieve the new home building targets that the Government have set out, we must ensure that new build homes are equipped for the challenges of the future, which include climate change and looking after our environment. If we do not change the standards for new housing stock, we not only miss an economic opportunity but put the environment at risk. The Government’s own advisory body, the Climate Change Committee, has advised that the UK will not meet its emissions targets without the “near complete decarbonisation” of housing stock. That is why it is so important that the new Government, specifically the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, have moved the conversation along, not least as shown by the answer to a question that I asked the right hon. Gentleman before Christmas, in which he said he was “very sympathetic” to the case for mandatory solar panels on new build homes. He is right.

The case for updating the regulations is irrefutable. The regulations that govern building work are set out in the Building Act 1984, which is the year I was born, and the Building Regulations 2010, which is so long ago that Members will be disturbed to learn that I still had a large Brylcreem bill in those days. The previous Government consulted on the future homes standard, but we were not able to respond before the general election. It is heartening that the current Government have promised a response and to pick up that work. There will of course be strong pushback from some developers, who will default to thinking about profit only. I understand that profit motive, but I urge developers to think about the planet and what their customers are demanding.

[Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow West) (Lab)]

I am pleased to see the Bill in the House today, but am not quite so entranced by the hon. Member’s puns, or by his making me feel completely and utterly ancient. Setting aside that niggle, on a serious point, does he agree that it is important for us to have a secure supply chain for solar panels, and that we eliminate the use of solar panels built by Uyghur people subject to forced labour in China?

[Max Wilkinson]

The hon. Member makes a very reasonable point. We need to be clear that our supply chains in this country are free from slave labour. That is a matter for Government procurement rules, and I understand that measures on that will come to the House in due course.

As I was saying, I understand the developers’ motives and why some will push back, but developers know what we all know, which is that the technology already exists and that implementing the measures in the sunshine Bill will be relatively straightforward for them. Solar panel technology has been available for many years and the construction industry is accustomed to working with it. Mandating installation at the construction stage is logical; it removes the burden from homeowners, and places the responsibility with the developer.

[Zöe Franklin (Guildford) (LD)]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing the Bill to the House. It is so important that it almost feels like a no-brainer. Many of my residents share with me their frustration about trying to navigate the process of installing solar panels. There are questions about which provider to go with, how it works, and all the technical details. Does he agree that not only does the Bill have an environmental benefit, but it will—as he has started to explain—take that burden from residents and empower them? They will benefit from lower bills without all the faff.

[Max Wilkinson]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. As she knows, the Bill includes a recommendation to set an industry standard, so that consumers can have confidence in what they are buying. Not only is the burden removed from homeowners and responsibility placed with developer, but the Bill creates an efficiency saving in human resources and materials. It is an entirely logical step to take. Installing solar panels on roofs while the houses are being built is at least 10% cheaper than retrofitting.

There will be issues around cost, which Members might raise in interventions or in speeches, but Government estimates put the cost of mandatory solar panels on all new homes at around £5,200 per home. That sounds like a lot of money in isolation, but the average cost of a new build in the final quarter of 2024 was far in excess of £400,000, so we are talking about little more than 1% of the price of a new build home. That is next to nothing in the context of a monthly mortgage repayment, if we take the figure in raw form, and it would be offset by lower bills.

This Bill would mandate that all new homes are built with solar generation technology covering the roof space—a minimum of 40% of the equivalent of the building’s ground-floor area.

[Dr Simon Opher (Stroud) (Lab)]

I too am interested in solar panels being mandated on public buildings. In my area, Rednock school has had solar panels retrofitted. Solar panels in educational facilities have two effects: they not only save money for the school, but teach young people about the issue. Also in my area, the NHS is looking to put solar panels on all south-facing roofs of hospitals. I wonder if we could extend the Bill to public buildings in general.

[Max Wilkinson]

I take the hon. Member’s point on board entirely, and agree with him. This Bill is limited to residential new builds; I was very conscious that in the public sector, the cost of initial installation would be borne by the taxpayer. He was right to reference schools. In my constituency, Bournside school is installing a huge ground source heat pump. That is a national, leading case study. He is right that it is important that young people understand what is going on. With regard to industry standards, we need to make sure that there is an industry-wide regulator and a certification scheme. The industry needs proper regulation to give consumers confidence in the product.

Supply chains were mentioned. To give supply chains, the construction industry and developers time to adjust, the Bill proposes that the regulations apply from 1 October 2026. Ministers may have comments on whether that is a realistic timescale—they might want to make it longer. I am sure that there will be a discussion.

Reasonable exemptions need to apply, including for very tall buildings; for buildings on which it would not be economical to install solar panels, due to roof size or other factors; and for buildings that had other forms of renewable energy generation installed that were more appropriate for that setting. Where buildings cannot physically accommodate solar panels that cover at least 40% of the building’s ground-floor area, the Bill requires that solar panels are installed to the maximum extent possible.

It is important to take part in some myth busting. To dispel one big myth about solar panels, they do not always need a clear, sunny day to work; they will continue to work in overcast, cloudy conditions. I think we can all agree that that is good news for this country. To dispel another myth, solar panels can be installed to good effect on north-facing roofs, although efficiency will be a little lower.

The overwhelming strength of the case for the measure means that the sunshine Bill has gathered support from industry. Over Christmas, several businesses and industry organisations signed an open letter to the Government in which they declared their support for the Bill. I am grateful for the support of the MCS Foundation, Solar Energy UK, Eco2Solar, E.ON Next and Ecotricity. I am particularly grateful to the MCS Foundation for its assistance and advice on technical matters in these last few months.

[Graeme Downie (Dunfermline and Dollar) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for letting me interrupt his excellent speech, which is loaded with fantastic puns that I would be very proud of. What discussions has he had with industry on making sure that we have the correct skills pipeline, so that we have enough installers and other people required to ensure that solar panels are installed efficiently and effectively, and to maximise the economic benefit to this country?

[Max Wilkinson]

The hon. Member is absolutely right. He will recall that if we go back more than a decade, there was a thriving solar energy industry in this country. Sadly, we have taken steps back over the last few years when it comes to the skills pipeline. I know that issue is on this Government’s agenda, and I welcome that. On the date on which we might look at this, we hope that further education colleges will put on courses to train people up, and that there would be more industry work, too.

[Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

Will the hon. Member explain why his Bill excludes the use of solar thermal panels?

[Max Wilkinson]

The Bill focuses on solar photovoltaics. Solar thermal panels are a different type of technology and are not covered by the Bill.

I would also like to thank CPRE. The right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) spoke earlier about the preservation of land and fields in green areas, and the CPRE is specifically interested from that perspective.

[Wendy Morton]

This is becoming increasingly worrying, because we are now starting to see policy on grey belt. I fear that if we do not thoroughly grasp the issue of where solar panels, battery storage and all the other renewables infrastructure should go, we risk green belt being all of a sudden redefined as grey belt, in a few years’ time, and being built on.

[Max Wilkinson]

The right hon. Lady speaks powerfully for her constituency, which I know has a specific issue.

We mentioned housing developers, and one housing developer has put its head above the parapet to support the Bill. I am grateful for the support of Thakeham, and it is to be applauded for supporting the measure. Developers should support the Bill for sound business reasons. There is a clear market preference for homes with solar panels, and a relatively small proportion of the price will be rewarded with a decent payback, and customers want them.

Politically, there is demonstrable cross-party support. In the last Parliament, 79% of Members were found to be supportive, and I suspect the percentage is higher in this new Parliament. The climate barometer tracks support for mandatory solar panels on new builds and found a clear majority of support among all parties’ voters, so doing this would place us at the centre of political gravity. Some 80% of Conservative voters, 89% of Labour voters, 92% of Liberal Democrat voters and 63% of Reform supporters responded to the survey in favour of mandatory solar panels for new build homes. Those same constituents rightly look to us to make the right and logical decisions on these matters. They back the measure because all the evidence points to clear benefits at every level, including the Government’s positive agenda on energy and climate.

MCS Foundation research has found that mandatory solar panels on 1.5 million homes would be the equivalent of two additional Sizewell C nuclear power stations, which should give us all pause for thought. For a country that struggles to build infrastructure, we must not look past these easier, small-scale wins.

[Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on introducing the Bill. He talks about the nuclear power that may not be needed if we have solar panels on houses. Does he have a view on how much pressure we could take off demand on green land for solar farms, because many people have concerns about that use of green land, if we had solar panels on new builds?

[Max Wilkinson]

My strong suspicion is that the market will help to decide the answer to that question, but it is inevitable that if we produce more energy from some sources, it will lower demand in other areas. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point.

I visited Hinkley Point on a school trip as an 11-year-old and was told, very excitedly, that a new Hinkley C was on the way. I regret to tell the House that I am now 40 and, on current projections, Hinkley C is not expected to generate any power until I am at least 44. On the point of time, the new homes built today will outlast us all. If we can make them work better for the planet, they will be a lasting testament to this House’s efforts to tackle climate change, and they will offer protections against the energy shocks we have all endured too. That is what we have the chance to do today, if Ministers are willing to support the principles of the sunshine Bill. We cannot and should not let this opportunity pass us by, and it is our duty to build a political consensus here to match the consensus among members of the public.

So to paraphrase the great Morecambe and Wise in the song that shares the informal name we have given to this Bill, let our arms be as warm as the sun up above, and let us think about how much joy we can give to each brand new bright tomorrow—if only we can lower people’s energy bills and help to tackle climate change too.

--- Later in debate ---

[Max Wilkinson]

I thank the Minister for his generous words. Although I accept that I will not be cracking open a beer this evening to celebrate the Bill’s passing—perhaps a bottle of Corona—this has been an important debate and it has demonstrated consensus across the House, save for the local difficulties of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hamble Valley (Paul Holmes), which we should not go into again.

A range of views were expressed about the energy mix. My view is that we need a mix of energy generation that includes all the things discussed today. I am pleased to hear that the matter will be up for future discussion and I look forward to working on it with the Government—particularly on the important point of applying pressure to developers in a way that gets the pragmatic outcome that we all deserve. I thank all Members for their contributions to the discussion.

Local Government Reorganisation

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Jim McMahon]

We have to stick to the principles of the White Paper, because that informs the legislation that will come later this year. We are very clear in the criteria that we will not, and cannot, agree to any devolution proposals that create orphans that cannot be resolved. We expect that local leaders will come together and do what is right, given the geography of their place, to deliver devolution as soon as possible.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Cheltenham has had a voice since Victoria was on the throne, and we need to be reassured by the Minister that we will retain that voice as part of any devolution and local government reorganisation. Otherwise, power will simply be taken away from my community and given either to Gloucester or as far away as Bristol, with a new regional mayor. Can the Minister reassure me that localism will be part of his agenda too?

[Jim McMahon]

The hon. Member makes a fair point. We are clear in the White Paper that we want to see devolution rolled out at an ambitious pace. We are doing that, and are pleased with the responses that we have had. We want to see local government reorganisation because we believe that efficiencies can be drawn out and reinvested back into frontline services that people see, feel and value. We also accept that that cannot be at the cost of local people feeling connected and empowered in the places where they live. Local empowerment and powers for the local community are central to the White Paper, and to our agenda going forward.

Building Homes

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook]

I look forward to my visit to Ebbsfleet, which is now building out at a faster rate than it was. We welcome its contribution. I have already referenced the changes we intend to make to strengthen the existing developer contribution system to get more out of section 106 agreements. There is more we can do in that area and, of course, through Government investment in affordable housing. We will bring forward more details in the spending review next year.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

My constituency of Cheltenham is already built up to its boundaries and is working with its neighbours on the joint local plans referenced by the Minister, in part to deal with a housing waiting list of more than 2,500 bequeathed to us by the last Government. We also have a big, sprawling town centre and plenty of empty space. What is the Minister’s message to councils that have that combination of challenges?

[Matthew Pennycook]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman’s area is working in co-operation with its neighbours. As he knows, we have in place a duty to co-operate; it has not been particularly effective and we think we need to go further on strategic cross-boundary planning. To those parts of the country that wish to densify their town centres, we fully support that and are open to any conversation in particular areas about what more they think needs to come forward to allow them to bring forward plans to rejuvenate town centres and bring more residential development back into them.

Planning Committees: Reform

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

Monday 9th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook]

I encourage my hon. Friend to read the working paper. He is welcome to submit his views on the potential interaction of these proposals with master planning and planning conditions. We have not set out specific proposals for those areas in the working paper, but I am more than happy to take his views into account.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

I was never brave enough to serve on a planning committee during my 10 years as a local councillor—there are just not enough hours in the day. There are a range of views on this. I have some sympathy with the notion that we need to speed up the delivery of new homes—we have a housing crisis, and it is important that we do that—but does the Minister accept that, with the streamlining he is talking about, one new planning authority simply will not cut it?

[Matthew Pennycook]

The 300 planning officers that we are working to bring through the system with apprenticeships and training are just one part of the solution to address the real capacity and capability constraints that local planning departments face. I have already outlined, as I hope the hon. Gentleman heard, the £46 million of investment allocated in the Budget to help local authorities with planning capacity and capability. As I said, we have also consulted on proposals for the potential localisation of fees. The 300 planners are one element of how we want to support local planning authorities to get capacity in the system, so that they can make decisions at pace and in a timely manner.

Newport Chartist Commemorations: Strengthening Democracy

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jessica Morden]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention—I could not have put it better myself. I thank all the hon. Members who have turned up for the debate this evening. It seems to be quite popular for an Adjournment debate at 10 pm on a Monday night, and for that I am most grateful.

The Chartist movement of the 1830s and 1840s was the first mass working-class movement and was born, in part, out of unhappiness with the Great Reform Act 1832. Passed on the third time of asking by the pro-reform Whig Government, the Act was limited in its ambition to extend the franchise, and ultimately left most working-class people still without the right to vote. The grassroots campaign behind the push for reform in the early 1830s included organised working and middle-class groups, who advocated for widening the right to vote to all tax-paying men and more. However, the campaign disbanded following the passage of the disappointing Great Reform Act. Those undelivered demands for reform would go on to form part of the “People’s Charter”, from which Chartism derives its name.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Does the hon. Lady agree with me that if the “People’s Charter” was drawn up today, it would include having proportional voting systems to elect Members of this House?

[Jessica Morden]

I will not be drawn on that particular question, but I reflect on the fact that we have a partly proportional system in Wales.

Chartism was a movement based not on ideologies or theories, but on the sense of disconnect between the lives and unaddressed struggles of working people, and the lives of those purporting to represent them. The Chartists’ demands were simple: that all men—men—over 21 had the vote; that voting should take place by secret ballot; that constituencies should be of equal size; that Members of Parliament should be paid; that the property qualification for becoming a Member of Parliament should be abolished; and that parliamentary elections be held every year—gulp! The Chartists put together a petition to Parliament with those demands in June 1839. The petition travelled to organised branches and meetings across the country, gathering 1,280,000 signatures. It ended up measuring almost 3 miles.

--- Later in debate ---

[Max Wilkinson]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Jessica Morden]

I ought to make some progress so that the Minister has time to speak.

We are proud of our Chartist heritage in Newport. It is always moving to join political colleagues from across Newport, and constituents of all ages and backgrounds, for the annual commemoration. This year was no different. After a day of events in Newport’s city centre last Saturday, and the annual Chartist convention at the cathedral, which I had the pleasure of chairing in the afternoon, more than 1,500 people joined the Newport rising march, flaming torches held high—they are quite scary—following in the footsteps of the Chartists, from Belle Vue Park down Stow Hill to the Westgate, before heading to a night of Chartist-themed performances from Reality Theatre at The Cab and a night of live music at the Corn Exchange with Adwaith.

The Newport rising festival is a real highlight of Newport’s calendar. Huge thanks to the Newport rising group, particularly David Daniel, Melinda Drowley and the Our Chartist Heritage charity for their work in putting the programme together. It seems to grow every year, and the group has a permanent hub now in our city centre, but the Chartist heritage belongs not just to Newport. There is a mini-exhibition of Chartist history in the corridor on the way to the Public Gallery, which includes a photograph of John Frost taken shortly after his return to the UK from Australia after having been pardoned. I echo the call by the late, great Paul Flynn, the former Member for Newport West, who regularly bemoaned the lack of representation of working-class and progressive movements and their history in this Palace. In a business question in 2011, he said:

“Certain elements in our constitution are well represented in the Palace of Westminster with statues, portraits and stained-glass windows, but there is almost a total absence of memorials to progressive groups, such as the Chartists…that did so much to shape all that is best in our modern democracy.”—[Official Report, 14 July 2011; Vol. 531, c. 496.]

Perhaps we might take the opportunity of the 185th anniversary of the Newport rising to ensure that lesser-celebrated parts of our heritage are reflected among the many wonders across the parliamentary estate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Max Wilkinson]

Does the Minister agree that one of the long-awaited changes that is needed is reform to the upper House here in Parliament, and that we are long overdue a fully elected Chamber?

[Rushanara Ali]

The hon. Member will know that the last Labour Government were the Government who began reform in the Lords, and we set out our plans in our manifesto.

The Chartists fought tirelessly for all men over 21 to have the vote, irrespective of status, something that was not supported by any legislation at the time. It is impossible to speak of these achievements without also recognising the efforts of the suffragette movement. The suffragettes have been an inspiration to women only in the UK but across the world. We would not be here without their courage and sacrifice. They fought tirelessly for women’s right to vote and participate in our democracy.

The right to democratic participation is a defining aspect of our great nation. Just as the Chartists and the suffragette movement helped to secure democracy and democratic freedoms at home, so too has Britain played a vital role in promoting those freedoms abroad, particularly where they have been under threat. During the second world war, we stood by our allies in Europe who were threatened by authoritarianism, and today—as has been mentioned—we are supporting our allies in Ukraine who are fighting to protect their own democracy and freedom. We have advocated for building democratic institutions that are inclusive, effective and enduring. I know from my own family’s experience of the birth of Bangladesh the important role that this Parliament has played in speaking out for the democratic freedoms of people in other countries, such as in my country of birth in the 1971 war of independence.

Oral Answers to Questions

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Alex Norris]

Our commitment as a Government is to bring communities into that conversation and to make sure local leadership has that say in the service of a wider national goal.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

5. If she will take steps to regulate property management service providers.

[The Minister for Housing and Planning (Matthew Pennycook)]

The Government are committed to ensuring that those living in the rented and leasehold sectors are protected from abuse and poor service at the hands of unscrupulous property agents. The Government will set out our position on the regulation of letting, managing and estate agents in due course.

[Max Wilkinson]

I thank the Minister for his reply. My constituent Paul faces inflation-busting maintenance cost rises and unexpected in-year fees. His attempts to scrutinise FirstPort’s work and his willingness to fight back have resulted in an exchange of letters with solicitors. When my hard-working office team asked FirstPort for an explanation of what is going on, the company took more than six weeks to reply with inadequate answers, and it did so only when I took the step of contacting it personally to say that I was raising its name in the House today. While long-awaited changes are being considered, what would the Minister advise my constituent and others like him to do in the meantime?

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question, and I am sorry to hear about Paul’s experience with that particular property management company—an experience that will, I know, be reflected in the experiences of many others across the country. There are two existing routes to redress in such circumstances, the property redress scheme and the property ombudsman scheme, to which people can submit complaints. I will happily write to the hon. Gentleman to set out in full the various sources of advice and support and the avenues for redress that his constituent might pursue before we bring in more fundamental changes to the regulation of the sector.

Oral Answers to Questions

Max Wilkinson Excerpts

Monday 2nd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and I am more than happy to meet her to discuss those issues.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Devolution is a positive thing, and we welcome it. Gloucestershire, which has my constituency of Cheltenham within it, has coterminous boundaries for the county council, a police force, a fire service, an economic development function and a health service, but there is fear that, in a devolution deal, it may be grouped with other areas to the north, or perhaps made part of an existing devolution deal to the south. Can the Secretary of State or another Minister confirm that that will not be the case?

[Jim McMahon]

Within the first couple of days of this Government, the Deputy Prime Minister wrote to local authority leaders, inviting them for discussions on devolution agreements. One of the founding principles is, of course, geography that makes sense—and having coterminous boundaries for public services and the rest does make sense. Without going into the specifics of individual conversations that are taking place, I advise the hon. Member to bring that point into the work on the English devolution Bill, which will make sure that all of England has a voice and a role in devolution.