Lords Spiritual (Women) Act 2015 (Extension) Bill [Lords]

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

2nd reading
Thursday 14th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

Let me start by saying how pleased I am to be speaking in support of the Bill on Second Reading. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Minister on his opening remarks. In 2014, the Church of England made it possible for women to become bishops. The usual process of appointing bishops to the other place meant that it would have taken many years for women bishops to enter the Lords. That is why the 2015 Act was brought in: to speed up the representation of women among the Lords Spiritual.

As we debate today’s short and narrow bill, I want to pay tribute to some of the women bishops who have made history. The Church of England’s first woman bishop, Libby Lane, took her place as the Bishop of Stockport in 2015.

[Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab)]

Hear, hear.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Indeed. Now the Bishop of Derby, Libby Lane is known for her dignified and thoughtful leadership, and her advocacy for children and young people. The first female Lord Spiritual was Rachel Treweek, who entered the Lords in 2015. During her tenure, she campaigned tirelessly for prison reform, especially on how prison affects women and families. She has called for more race, class, gender and age diversity in the Church, and has pushed for a humane response to refugees. She has also looked at ways in which we can improve children’s sense of self-worth, value and confidence.

I also pay tribute to the Lord Bishop of London, Sarah Mullally, a former chief nursing officer who is deeply engaged with the community she serves. She has promoted the living wage and spoken up for our beloved national health service and for the most vulnerable in society, including the elderly and those facing persecution.

The 2015 Act sped up the entry of six women bishops to the other place. We now have 25 Lords Spiritual, seven of whom are women. I hope that I am making the value of those women bishops’ contributions in the Lords clear. They enrich debate and provide much-needed representation. The Lord Bishop of Chelmsford, Guli Francis-Dehqani, came to Britain as a refugee after her family fled persecution during the Iranian revolution. In the other place, she has carefully and intelligently worked hard to scrutinise policy on issues including housing, immigration and criminal justice. Like so many of her colleagues, she truly listens to the views of others, speaking with grassroots knowledge—most importantly about the region under her care.

The progress that we have seen in making the Lords Spiritual more diverse should be celebrated, but we know, and the Church knows, that another push is needed to make the Lords Spiritual representative and to bring them more up to date. That is particularly the case for women bishops from black, Asian and ethnic minority backgrounds, who make such an important contribution and are currently underrepresented in the other place, and more broadly in the Church.

[Adam Jogee]

On that point, I acknowledge the history-making nature of my hon. Friend’s appointment as the Second Church Estates Commissioner, which I hope demonstrates our commitment to diversity and representation.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank my hon. Friend. It is truly an honour and a privilege to serve in that position.

I want to acknowledge the trailblazing Bishop of Dover, Rose Hudson-Wilkin, the first black woman to become a Church of England bishop. She was the chaplain to her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and for nine years she was the chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow—the first woman to carry out that role. Her presence as a leader in the Church is a call to young women from diverse backgrounds not to shy away from the work that they want to do. But the Bishop of Dover is not yet one of many. There is more work to do. That is why the Bill will help. It is a narrow Bill, extending the existing provisions for five years, which should get us closer to the Lords Spiritual better representing the make-up of our country. That is why I support the Bill, and I hope that Members across the House will do the same.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Ms Abena Oppong-Asare)]

I begin by congratulating the shadow Paymaster General on his appointment to his role. It is a pleasure to close the debate on this focused but most important piece of legislation. I have very much enjoyed listening to the thoughtful contributions made by colleagues from all parts of the House, and I will do my best to respond to them in the time available.

As the Paymaster General said in his opening speech, this is a straightforward but important Bill requested by the Church. It simply extends for a further five years the arrangements agreed by this House in 2015. Significant progress has been made since then in addressing the gender imbalance on the Benches of the Lords Spiritual, but I hope that hon. Members will appreciate that a short extension is reasonable and proportionate to ensure that progress continues.

Members have made important and interesting contributions to the debate. I put on record my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd), who told an incredibly powerful story about her grandfather and her mother. Her personal story will have touched the lives of many today, and I share her ethos of breaking down barriers. She made some important points in her speech, and I believe her constituents appreciate their hard-working Member of Parliament. As a graduate of the women-only Murray Edwards College, Cambridge, she joins the ranks of the many notable and brilliant women making their mark on public life. She has spoken about the influence that Jo Cox and Harriet Harman—inspirational women—had on her.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra) speaks with great passion and knowledge. His constituency has played an important role in our story, because the Right Rev. Libby Lane, who was made Bishop of Stockport in 2015, was the first ever female bishop. Her consecration reminds us of the need for pioneers and trailblazers.

My hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) has become the 43rd Second Church Estates Commissioner. I met her this week to discuss the Bill, and I know she will use all her political and personal skills to provide a bridge between Parliament and the established Church at a difficult time for the Anglican communion. She will be brilliant in that role. She spoke powerfully about female bishops, and particularly about the importance of diversity and under-represented groups. The Church is looking at that, and I know that she will be a champion of those issues. The shadow Paymaster General rightly asked why the five-year timeframe had been selected. We believe that five years is an appropriate time, and we will review the arrangements in collaboration with the Church of England closer to 2030.

The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) has been a champion of diversity in the other place. She rightly asked whether we will be making wider progress. This Bill is narrow, and it is not part of the Government’s wider House of Lords reform agenda. It was requested by the Church of England, so that it can extend arrangements put in place by the 2015 Act. As she knows, that Act is due to expire in May next year, so it is important that we introduce the Bill now. As the first step in a wider reform, the Government have introduced the House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill, which I know the hon. Lady has spoken favourably about. That focused Bill will deliver the Government’s manifesto commitment to bring about immediate reform by removing the right of the remaining hereditary peers to sit and vote in the House of Lords.

The Government are committed to other reforms of the House of Lords, as the hon. Lady rightly mentioned, including the introduction of a mandatory retirement age and a participation requirement, and changes to the appointments process, as well as a strengthening the circumstances in which disgraced Members can be removed. There is also a long-term commitment to replacing the other place with an alternative second Chamber that is more representative of the regions and nations. Given the nature and potential scale of these reforms, the Government will engage and consult on the proposals, seeking the input of the British public on how politics can best serve them.

As my right hon. Friend the Paymaster General noted when he opened the debate, this year marks the 10th anniversary of the ability to appoint women bishops in the Church of England. It is also another important anniversary: it is 30 years since the first women were ordained as Church of England priests; 32 women were ordained at Bristol cathedral in 1994. Over the past 30 years, the Church has made significant progress in valuing the leadership role that women can play in the life of the Church. This Bill simply extends existing provisions to ensure that progress can continue.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on her speech; she is setting out exactly why this small piece of legislation is so important. I also thank her for acknowledging that for 30 years, we have seen women being ordained. Does she agree that celebrating the progress that women have made, not only in this place but in the Church, is crucial? I am very grateful to the Government for bringing forward the Bill, so that we can get it through.

[Ms Oppong-Asare]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the importance of female representation, particularly in the Church. The long history of women’s progress in this country teaches us one thing: it cannot be left to chance. That is why it is so important that we pass this Bill. Women must organise and keep up the pressure, and institutions must change. Our Parliament must also change; between 1918 and 2024, only 693 women have been elected as Members of this House. The hon. Member for Richmond Park mentioned female representation in Parliament. As of July 2024, there are 263 women in this House, the highest ever number. Female representation is at an all-time high of 40%, yet even now, we still need progress to be truly reflective of our society.

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[Ms Oppong-Asare]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point. Racial diversity, as well as the wider representation of disabled people, are matters that I raised during a conversation with my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea in her new role, and with representatives of the Church of England. As my hon. Friend may know, it is for the Church to determine how bishops are appointed, and its representatives have mentioned that they are committed to increasing diversity among bishops. The Church is reviewing the pipeline for senior roles to encourage the greatest possible participation of under-represented groups.

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech, and all the interventions in this debate have been incredible. As she says, representation is something that the Church of England is now taking seriously. It led the way in setting up its racial justice taskforce, and it now has its racial justice commission that is working on this area. Representation is important, not just at the top of the Church but all the way down to the parish and diocese levels. We need greater representation, not just of women but of those from black and ethnic minority communities, as well as disabled people. I am sure my hon. Friend agrees that the Church has got to get this right.

[Ms Oppong-Asare]

My hon. Friend is right to raise that point. That is why I am delighted that she is in the role that she now holds—I know that she will champion this issue really well. Representation at all levels is important, and I will be looking to see what the Church of England does to strengthen its diversity in that area.

This Bill is about the role of a number of Lords Spiritual. It simply aims to extend the provisions of the 2015 Act to ensure that more female bishops enter into the House of Lords.

Black History Month

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ms Oppong-Asare]

I completely agree. I mentioned how in the past different communities have come together alongside the African-Caribbean community, for example to fight the blackshirts, the National Front, and the British National party. These are the shoulders on which many of us stand. Alongside Bernie Grant and my fellow Ghanaian —and great friend—Lord Paul Boateng, they lit the path for so many of us to walk down.

I do not want the House to think I am only going to mention those of Ghanaian descent, even though we make the best jollof rice—do not let my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi) tell you any different. But there is one more Ghanaian person I must mention, as I always do in this month: Akyaaba Addai-Sebo, the co-ordinator of special projects for the Greater London Council, who organised the first recognition of this month in 1987. In the 1970s, he had seen the Americans celebrate black history and believed that Britain should do something similar.

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

First, I congratulate my hon. Friend on her speech. She is doing a fantastic job and she looks amazing. I am not getting into the jollof rice argument, because I am Jamaican. She mentioned one of the founders of Black History Month, who was a constituent of mine. Does she agree that it is no coincidence that in 1987, when Black History Month was first launched by the GLC, this place also made history with the election of the first three black MPs: the Mother of the House, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), Lord Boateng, and the late and very great Bernie Grant?

[Ms Oppong-Asare]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that, and I am glad she took the cautious path by not saying that Ghanaian jollof rice is not the best—she knows it is. I echo her points and I will be paying tribute to those MPs later in my speech.

The stories we will hear this afternoon are our stories. We have come a long way since the 1980s, when we first celebrated Black History Month. We celebrate the trail- blazers today. I have mentioned the first black Mother of the House, the first black Minister and Cabinet Minister, Paul Boateng, and Baroness Lawrence. I must also mention Baroness Amos in the other place, who became the first black woman to serve in Cabinet. She is from my area, the borough of Bexley, and inspires me every day. Of course, no one political party has a monopoly on trailblazers; I know that Opposition Members will want to mention the black trailblazers from their own parties and political traditions.

Since the general election in July, we can celebrate the most diverse Parliament in our history, making this House look and sound far closer to the diverse communities we represent. Such representation matters. If the nation’s children look at our Parliament and do not see women and men who look and sound like them, then they will assume that Parliament is not of them or for them; they will assume that the rulers are one thing and the ruled something else. I do not need to tell the House how damaging that is to democracy, or how populists thrive and democracies die. It is not about ticking boxes; it is about ballot boxes.

I said we have come a long way—and we have—but the path of progress does not run straight and true. Progress can be reversed and set back. Social media provides a new platform for old hatreds. The scourge of racism is given new life through social media—each one of us faces it every day online. In our communities too, racism is real, and the struggle against it is real. It is not just overt racism; it is also the damaging effect of racism in our institutions. It is the routine micro-aggressions that black MPs and black staff face every day, and the hateful language in parts of our media. It is when the successful black business executive is mistaken for the cleaner, when the qualified jobseeker is blocked because of their surname, or when the political candidate is told, “This seat is not for the likes of you.”

That is why this Government are committed to breaking down barriers to opportunity as part of our mission-led Government, and why we strive for opportunity for all in education, work, public life, and in every community and part of the UK. I believe that the Government’s wide-ranging legislative programme will start to address many of the injustices that scar our society. The Bill on equality in race and disability will introduce mandatory ethnicity and disability pay gap reporting for employers with over 250 employees. We will reform the Mental Health Act 1983. Currently, black people are 3.5 times more likely than white people to be detained under that Act, and over seven times more likely to be subject to a community treatment order. We must urgently address this issue.

We will also tackle the abhorrent maternal health gap. In England, the risk of maternal death is nearly three times as high for black women and twice as high for Asian women as it is for white women. It is a grave injustice that there are such stark inequalities in maternal outcomes, and this Government are committed to closing the maternal mortality gap.

In so many other areas, the Government are making changes that will improve lives. Earlier in my speech, I mentioned the Windrush generation; we have been calling for justice for those treated so terribly by previous Governments, including the full implementation of the recommendations of the Wendy Williams review. I have called for that in the House multiple times, and I am pleased that today, my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has announced that the Government will fulfil their manifesto commitments in full. We will appoint a Windrush commissioner to oversee compensation and act as a trusted voice; we will establish a new Windrush unit in the Home Office to drive things forward; and we are injecting £1.5 million into a programme of grant funding for organisations to support people’s applications for compensation. This will speed up and clarify processes that have been shamefully slow and difficult. We will continue to listen to the voices of Windrush, honour their contribution to this country and seek redress for the scandal that has engulfed so many of them. At last —after too long—the Windrush generation will see some measure of justice.

I am proud to open this debate, but I am not satisfied with where we are. We have a long way to go. Yes, I am interested in black history, but I am also interested in black futures. That is why we need lasting change, real reform, solid progress, and a never-ending quest for justice.

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[Mims Davies (East Grinstead and Uckfield) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I, too, wish Baroness Lawrence a very happy birthday.

I congratulate the Minister on such a positive opening speech. How wonderful it is to have this discussion in the main Chamber! I have been working with the hon. Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler) on the all-party women in Parliament event, and I am delighted that joint working between Government Front Benchers and Back Benchers has brought this debate to the Chamber today. I am particularly pleased to see the number of people who are keen to be here on a Thursday—that is fantastic, and I look forward to the contributions from across the House.

The theme of this year’s Black History Month is reclaiming narratives, and it is vital for every member of society to recognise the achievements of black Britons and the contributions they have made to our country and to the world. All of us as MPs have amazing constituents and friends who educate and inspire us, and that will be highlighted in today’s debate. It takes me back to my best friend from school, Genevieve. She educated me about what it was like to flee her country, Uganda, with just a passport, and what it had meant to her and her future to go through such a harrowing time with her family.

We need only look across the fields of sport, entertainment, culture and politics to see how much of a contribution black Britons are making. We see that most clearly in today’s celebration. I agree with the Minister that looking forward to the future is vital, but Black History Month takes us back to the 1980s, which was when my friend Genevieve and I met. It was established in 1987, and not only has it grown as a movement; it has led to real debate and reflection. I am sure that this House will do it justice this afternoon, and that we will note just how far the UK has come and how different it is as a country from when Black History Month was established. We have heard from the Minister about the historic moment when three black MPs were elected to this House in the 1987 general election, and the difference that made. The right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) was elected in that year, and we celebrate her being the Mother of this House.

As for my party, the oldest political party in the western world, the fact that we could be led by a black woman is a testament to the arc of change that we have seen—that is no doubt in part due to the trailblazing of the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington—and, indeed, she would be our fourth female leader, although there is another one available. [Laughter.] You know what I mean. Other members of the black or mixed-race heritage community have joined our Benches, and there are some we dearly miss. Bim Afolami, in particular, made an important contribution in this place for our party. As the Minister said, looking at the Chamber today and at Prime Minister’s questions, we can see the breadth of representation. I think it is fair to say, despite where we are as a party, that there is more to do, and we are all keen to inspire that work and to work together on it.

Turning to the contribution in the field of sport, people can just watch any football match to see black Britons making their mark. Whether it is Sterling, Saka or Rashford, these are household names in the English team, although I will show my age by admitting that my favourite is Ian Wright.

[Marsha De Cordova]

As the hon. Lady is talking about sport and football, it is only right that I pay tribute to my brother, who is a premier league footballer—Bobby Reid-De Cordova. He is doing an incredible job, and I am incredibly proud of him because of what he demonstrates, not just on the pitch but in the communities within which he has served.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for that contribution —I have a brother myself of whom I am extremely proud, so I get that. There is something slightly less competitive in that relationship sometimes. I pay tribute to him and his work, and, above all, his skill.

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[Dawn Butler (Brent East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure and a privilege to take part in this debate on the Floor of the House in Government time for the first time ever. I thank the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield (Mims Davies) for her excellent speech. It is a pleasure to co-chair the all-party parliamentary group on women in Parliament. Talking about footballers, Raheem Sterling is from Brent—a proud Brent boy—as is Rachel Yankey, and they do amazing things in the community.

I thank the Minister for her moving and excellent speech. I am sure the Nigerians would disagree about jollof rice, but I will try not to get too involved in that. As she said, she is the first woman of Ghanaian decent at the Dispatch Box. I remember that when I stood at that Dispatch Box in 2009, and I was the first black woman ever to stand there as a Government Minister, it was so moving and I almost felt as though I had the weight of history on my shoulders. I congratulate her on that, and also on the Windrush announcement. That is a phenomenal announcement, and a lot of people today will be very grateful for it. I would like to thank Wendy Williams, Jacqueline McKenzie, Martin Forde and Patrick Vernon for all the work they have done on Windrush.

Reclaiming narratives is important for this Black History Month, because it is not about explaining black history, but about reclaiming some of the narratives out there changing some of the assumptions. I always remember a teacher saying to me at school, “Don’t assume, because when you ‘assume’ you make an ‘ass’ out of ‘u’ and ‘me’.” When I met Pam, whose family owned a cotton farm in Mississippi for over 100 years, I was expecting all these stories about uprisings and everything, and she just told me about the entrepreneurship, the sustainability and the fair pay. I was so enthralled by her story—mytunika.com—that I purchased the shirt I am wearing today, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) for helping me iron it.

The thing about business is that it is easy for someone to make huge profits if they do not have to pay people, if they do not have to provide accommodation, if they do not have to treat them fairly and if they can treat them as if they are nobody. No one with a conscience or any compassion would say that is a good business model, but six years ago, in 2018, I received a message, as did everybody else in the country, to inform me that we had finished paying the reparations owed. The message said:

“The amount of money borrowed for the Slavery Abolition Act was so large that it wasn’t paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the slave trade.”

I was absolutely shocked when I received that message. I thought, “I won’t consent to my taxpayer’s money paying slave owners compensation.” The British Government paid £20 million, which was 5% of GDP at the time, and that is now the equivalent of about £100 billion. This money was paid to compensate slave owners for lost capital associated with freeing slaves—40% of the UK’s budget. So there is a precedent for paying reparations for slavery; it has just been paid to the wrong people.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on her speech, and I must say her shirt is lovely. She is making a vital point about reparations, and does she agree that while it is important that we look to the future, we must also have that discussion about reparations, because both she and I are descendants of those who were enslaved?

[Dawn Butler]

I thank my hon. Friend. I understand that the Prime Minister has said we have to look to the future and that he is dealing with 14 years of corruption and mismanagement by the Conservative Government, but we do have to consider reparations because it is the right thing to do. This question makes me wonder whether it would ever be conceivable that this decision would be made today. Would we pay traffickers for their loss of trade? Would we pay pimps for their loss of trade? It is a ridiculous assertion.

So I thought to myself, who made this decision and how was it made? Obviously, it was made in Parliament. Back then there were no women, no black people, no people of colour; it was just white men and they made that decision. And we only finished paying nine years ago, so it is still very current.

While the British Government have not disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for slaves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received Government payouts related to the abolition of slavery. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team. So when we hear the arguments that to make our money—to make our millions—we just have to work hard and pull ourselves up by our boot straps, that is not quite the full story. That is why the narrative needs to be reset, and structures created in order to uphold a white supremacist view need to be revisited and restructured.

Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase 2 Report

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We will obviously look at all the recommendations and report back to the House, but we need to look at the wider issues too. Access to risk assessments is an important issue that we are considering. There should not be gaps. One of the benefits of a general debate is that it will be an opportunity to raise these and further points, which we will take away and consider.

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

Today my thoughts are with the victims, the survivors, the families and the entire Grenfell community. The systemic dishonesty and many other injustices meant that the people of Grenfell were treated like second-class citizens. Successive Governments, the local authority and industry knew about the risks, but they failed to act.

As Sir Martin said, the deaths that occurred were entirely avoidable. Seven years on, no none has faced criminal proceedings and there are still thousands living in homes wrapped in unsafe cladding. I welcome what the Prime Minister has said today, I welcome the way he delivered his statement, and I am thankful that the Government will implement the phase 1 recommendation to ensure that every disabled person living in a high-rise block has a personal evacuation plan specific to their needs, but when the Prime Minister returns to update the House, it is vital that those living in unsafe homes have clear deadlines for when the flammable or unsafe cladding will be removed, so that they can have a decent night’s sleep.

[The Prime Minister]

I agree that the work is going too slowly; we need to push that work on, with clear timetables to ensure it is done. In response to the first part of my hon. Friend’s question, the wording of the report, which says that the deaths were entirely “avoidable”, must be chilling for all the family members and the community at large.