Abortion (Northern Ireland) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Maria Miller Excerpts

Monday 8th June 2020 General Committees

[Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)]

Thank you, Sir David; It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I was reminded that it was just over a year ago that the Women and Equalities Committee published its report on abortion in Northern Ireland after colleagues and I spent an extensive period looking at the issue. I am really grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate.

The Government have introduced regulations that put into place the decisions of this Parliament, which were democratically agreed very recently. The regulations also right a wrong that long predates this Parliament and devolution, and has been sidestepped by all political parties. It is absolutely clear that the Government have a legal obligation to act, not only because of the recent decision of Parliament, but because of the decisions of the courts in recent years. While abortion is a devolved matter, that is clearly a fudge, because there are clear and specific obligations that the Northern Ireland Assembly must adhere to when it passes legislation—that it cannot be contrary to the UK’s international obligations or contrary to human rights law. It is a fudge, because this law predates that devolution, and it was not tackled at the time of devolution itself. However, devolution does not remove the UK Government’s responsibilities to ensure that all the law in the United Kingdom complies with international obligations, and it does not remove the Government’s obligation to ensure that all law is compliant with human rights law as well.

The United Nations committee on the elimination of discrimination against women found “grave violations” in relation to abortion law in Northern Ireland as it stood previously, particularly regarding fatal foetal abnormality, rape and incest, and “systematic violations” in the criminalisation of abortion and the restricted access to the ability to end pregnancies for many women, because of the need to travel outside Northern Ireland to secure it.

That is something that we should all be concerned about. We undertake international obligations so that we can comply with them. Those in Northern Ireland cannot simply have special pleading to sit outside that framework. What is more, at home, the UK Supreme Court identified very clearly that there was a breach of women’s article 8 rights in the law as it stood. The highest court in the land identified that the law breached human rights, and that is not something I believe any Government should ignore.

On top of that, if the Democratic Unionist party Members argue that this is something that is being foisted upon them, I would be interested to understand why, in October last year, the High Court in Belfast itself, in the heart of that community, found that the law as it stood was incompatible with article 8 rights.

[Ian Paisley]

The right hon. Lady should know that the European convention on human rights case that was brought by the ECHR was dismissed by the Supreme Court in Northern Ireland. It was not upheld. It was dismissed.

[Mrs Miller]

And the hon. Gentleman will know that some of the problems in that case related to the standing of the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, which I will come on to later, if I may. I hope that in raising that point, he was not seeking to try to mislead people who are following this debate. It is important that we stick to the facts of the debate, because—[Interruption.] If I may finish my point, in our visits as a Select Committee to Northern Ireland, the one thing that was overwhelming was how confused people were about the law.

[Ian Paisley]

I do not attempt to mislead anyone. It is stated in the documents that are before us. The fact is that, whether we like it or not, no matter the reasons or the deliberations of the Supreme Court of Northern Ireland, it dismissed the ECHR case because the plaintiff had no standing. End of story. That is a fact. That is what I said.

[Mrs Miller]

Again, I thank the hon. Gentleman, and we will not fall out over this, but I will gently remind him that it has been widely accepted that the reason the case was not accepted either in Northern Ireland or in the Supreme Court just over the road was because of a technical error in the drafting of the legislation when the standing of the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission was drawn up.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

It may be important for the record that we recognise that there have been many human rights cases involving abortion, Northern Ireland and the ECHR, and other cases have indeed ruled that there are breaches that need to be addressed, but they recognised that this Parliament was seeking to act. If, for completeness, we are to recognise that, yes, some rulings have been dismissed on technicalities, there have been others, for example, where the court has ordered compensation to be paid to women who have suffered injustices as a result of the law, and it is therefore right that we act to address it.

[Mrs Miller]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention, and I think the Minister needs in his summing-up to give some assurances to hon. Members here today that there will be clarity for people in Northern Ireland and that we will not continue to have this fear culture, bringing a lack of clarity for women, doctors and medics on the ground, not knowing whether the law that has been passed here is, as we have said it is today, the law of the land. He has to make that crystal clear.

To echo what the Minister said earlier, to paint this as a liberalisation of abortion law is not consistent with my reading of what is being put forward. Introducing the 12-week limit is consistent with the Republic of Ireland, and given the cross-border issues, I am sure the Minister thought carefully when he put that provision in place. The remainder of the changes are more or less consistent with the rest of the Abortion Act 1967, as it applies in England and Wales, and consistent with the regulations surrounding the use of medical abortion pills, particularly that women now have the option to take a second pill as part of the treatment at home. It is crucial that we communicate these details to women who will be trying to navigate something that is, perhaps, being obscured to them in the way it is being reported.

I echo the tributes made by the hon. Member for Bristol South to the women who have had the courage to bring cases, to speak out to Select Committees, including the Select Committee on Women and Equalities, which I chaired at that time, and to talk about their experiences, to ensure that people knew in full about the suffering they had gone through.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, to many of us here, it is matter of huge regret that Northern Ireland has proved unable, so far, to resolve these issues herself, in the usual democratic way, and that this Parliament is only getting involved, alas, because of the failure to do so?

[Mrs Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, but we need to grasp this issue fully and not apologise for the fact that we have taken the time to legislate. We firmly want to see the legislation that we have passed put into law and to be clarified for those who live in Northern Ireland.

As the Minister knows, passing that law is not enough. I have some of the same concerns as the shadow Minister about Parliament, here in Westminster, passing a law that will then be implemented by an Administration that was not part of the process of drawing up the law. We need to have some assurances from the Minister that while he, of course, will not have day-to-day responsibility for the implementation of the law, that he will make sure that it is implemented, because he has international and legal obligations to do so. It is important that he spells that out in when he sums up.

[Tim Loughton]

I agree with everything that my right hon. Friend has said. She was talking about uncertainty and the dilemmas that that provides for women in Northern Ireland. Would she agree that, if these regulations do not go through, the uncertainty will continue, and we will see a return of the absurd and obscene travel from Northern Ireland to try to find alternative provision in England and Great Britain, at a time when travel is not advised because of the coronavirus epidemic?

[Mrs Miller]

My hon. Friend is right. The Select Committee report, just a year ago, found that there was a postcode lottery for provision and showed that lack of access to abortion in Northern Ireland drove many women to have to seek abortions in England, without the support of family and friends. There were some traumatic stories that were completely unacceptable.

[Carla Lockhart]

The right hon. Lady makes reference to the people who have spoken out and raised their concerns about their own personal situations. Will she also take note of Heidi Crowter, the Down’s syndrome campaigner, who has spoken out loudly and clearly, and said that this Government make her feel that she should not exist?

[Mrs Miller]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady. She has spoken extremely eloquently, not just here today but in the Chamber, on that issue. She is right that there is a massive tension when it comes to abortion and what constitutes the grounds for it. She is right to speak out about that. Many people would agree with her that Down’s syndrome is not grounds for abortion, but I am sure, like me, she has met women who have been forced to take a pregnancy to full term, in the certain knowledge that their baby will die either before or shortly after birth. That is not right and cannot be countenanced. In making sure that individuals with Down’s syndrome have a right to life, we do not have to put in the way a prohibition on abortion for those who really require it.

[Sir John Hayes]

In her advocacy of clarity and certainty, perhaps we can be clear and certain about those who were just named in the intervention by the hon. Member for Upper Bann. Can I ask a straightforward question? Will she back the Bill that will be presented to the House to prohibit the abortion of people with cleft lips and palates or clubbed feet, who are currently under the law in this country, let alone in Northern Ireland, being aborted, but could live and be successfully treated?

[Mrs Miller]

I will look carefully at the measure that my right hon. Friend is talking about because although this is a live debate, it should not fog what is a wrong and inappropriate system in Northern Ireland where women in very difficult situations have not been able to access a service which I am afraid his and my constituents would take for granted. That is not right.

Sir David, I will make progress and I am sorry to colleagues who would like to intervene—maybe I should speak a little more before accepting any further interventions. The simple truth that we found when we spoke to people on the ground in Northern Ireland of all views—it is our obligation as a Select Committee to have done that—was that there were some doctors who believed that referring women for an abortion in England was unlawful—fact; and that women were being forced to bring back the remains of their foetuses in their hand luggage because they were not able to be treated more formally for fear of being reported to the police. These are the sorts of things that we found in the Select Committee inquiry—practices that we would not accept in any other part of the United Kingdom. I gently ask DUP Members who are unhappy about this coming into play to look at the detail of those inquiry submissions to understand the reality of what was happening on the ground for too many women.

In the absence of an independent regulator of health in Northern Ireland, can the Minister confirm again—I asked him this question on the Floor of the House—who will monitor the implementation of these new regulations which have to include the expansion of training and medical facilities, because there is no independent regulator to do that? What obligations are there on the Northern Ireland Government to ensure that any future re-evaluation of this policy has to be human rights compliant and has to be compliant with the international obligations of the United Kingdom of which they are part?

The Select Committee recommendations included the very useful recommendation that the General Medical Council should run a campaign to raise awareness about how to complain about a doctor if they fall short on standards expected under the law, particularly with regard to abortion. That would help to increase public confidence and, perhaps, confidence among doctors about what is lawful and what is not lawful, because in our conversations with doctors only a year ago, it was clear there was a huge amount of confusion.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I am following very carefully what the hon. Lady is saying. Does she agree that there is a role for the royal colleges as well in terms of the training and support that their members need to understand fully the new legislative background and framework that have been put into place? If any future changes to the regulations are not CEDAW compliant, what does she understand would happen? What measures could be taken to deal with that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Miller]

The hon. Lady is right to say that there is room for more than just the General Medical Council to be involved in communicating these changes. It should go broader than that. I have to say that members of the Select Committee were quite shocked at the lack of involvement of the royal colleges in the situation in Northern Ireland, despite the fact that they were very aware of what was going on. There needs to be more courage coming from the royal colleges in ensuring that their members adhere to the law.

In terms of CEDAW compliance, there are obviously regular monitoring visits from CEDAW where it can come along and look at the law, but I think the Minister would want to make sure that he would not fall short when it came to a CEDAW compliance visit. I am sure that he will be keeping a very careful eye on that, as indeed will any Ministers who follow in his footsteps.

We have heard today the very strong differences of opinion on this issue. Therefore, as a Committee we should be under no illusion about the need to communicate the changes that the regulations introduce. However, after hearing the Minister speak, I have to say that there is one thing I am a little confused about. When he sums up, could he clarify whether, under section 5 of the Criminal Law Act 1967, there is still a requirement on doctors to report all criminal offences to the police, including rape and incest, because that is an important measure that at the moment stops women seeking the help they need for fear of criminalising someone in their family?

Change is not enough unless we communicate it, particularly to the large rural population; that came through very clearly in our Select Committee hearings. So, will the UK Government support organisations to explain these changes to rural communities?

As I have just said, we have heard today about the disagreement regarding the changes that are being introduced. Can the Minister confirm to the Committee that he will seek clarity between our Attorney General and the Attorney General for Northern Ireland that what has been agreed today is lawful?

Finally, we have already touched on the issue that one of the reasons we are in this situation and that the UK Government have had to act is because a serious error was made in the law regarding the legal standing of the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. At the time of our report a year ago, the Government undertook to right that wrong swiftly. Can the Minister please update the Committee on when that will happen, so that the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission has the standing that it thought it had in the first place?

Many people will be listening to this debate today who took their courage in their hands and spoke out about this issue. We are making these changes for them and for women who come after them. I fully support the Minister in all that he has done and I commend him for the way that he has handled a very difficult and sensitive matter.

[Several hon. Members rose—]