Order of the Companions of Honour

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 6th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have plans to increase the membership of the Order of the Companions of Honour.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Order of the Companions of Honour is restricted to a membership of 65 plus the Sovereign. There are no plans to increase the membership of the order, which currently carries a number of vacancies.

[Lord Lexden]

My Lords, in thanking my noble friend for his reply, I should perhaps make a declaration of non-interest to assure the House that I do not seek to suggest that I should be admitted to this great order. However, since there are no fewer than 24 vacancies, it is rather tempting to propose the names of admired friends—men and women from all parts of the House—although at the moment I would be slightly reluctant to include anyone from the government Front Bench, even my noble friend, for the following reason. Does he agree that anyone looking at the composition of the order today might well think that it is designed primarily for politicians, who constitute no less than half the current membership—21 out of 41? They are, of course, all most worthy recipients, but should not the order reflect more fully the glorious era of British culture and sport in which we are living? Why has no poet been appointed since 1993, no writer since 1999 and no musician since 2000, to help fill the 24 vacancies? As for sport, should not more of its stars be appointed to join its one current representative—my noble friend Lord Coe?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Order of the Companions of Honour is only one of the orders of honour in the British honours system. Service to the state is, after all, one of the central principles under which the various orders have been created. Politicians who belong to the Order of the Companions of Honour have all provided considerable service to the state. Indeed, 16 of them are Members of this House. However, as the noble Lord has also noted, there are a number of people who have made considerable contributions in the fields of music, theatre, fiction writing, history, science and elsewhere. I am happy to say that David Hockney, with his very close connection with Saltaire, is also a member.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, talking of honour and recognition, I am sure the Minister is aware that, 69 years ago today, some 6,800 warships, auxiliaries and merchant ships landed British, American and Canadian forces in Normandy, and that 5,500 of those ships were British. I have to say we are not quite in that position today. Four years before—some 73 years ago this week—Operation Dynamo finished, in which we had expected to manage to withdraw some 80,000 troops of the beaten British Army from Europe, but ended up taking out more than a third of a million. In the context of honour and recognition, I am sure that the noble Lord would like to give the thanks of the House for all those people who were involved in those two operations.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, that is a little wide of the mark. It is appropriate to pull the subject back towards the Question by saying that the Order of the Bath has a particularly strong military connection, as the noble Lord well knows. Every time I give a tour of the Abbey, which I do from time to time as a former chorister, I remark that one sees the military banners up in Henry VII’s chapel.

[Baroness Deech]

What proportion of the Companions of Honour are women? Is the noble Lord satisfied that the highest honours which can be awarded, including the Order of Merit, satisfactorily represent the contribution of women to the achievements of this country?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That is an extremely good question. We are very conscious of the imbalance in gender terms of almost all the orders and honours which are awarded. Only four of the 41 members of the Order of the Companions of Honour are women. However, nearly half the honours awarded in the latest New Year Honours List—47%—were awarded to women, although the majority of those were at what one has to call the lower levels of honours, not the higher. That, of course, partly reflects the continuing imbalance in society and the economy. Since John Major’s changes in 1993, it is open to all British citizens to nominate people for honours. There were 3,000 nominations last year. I encourage everyone to think very actively who else, particularly among distinguished women, might be nominated for orders.

[Baroness Trumpington]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that there is to be a debate later in this Session about making Alan Turing a non-criminal. Despite the fact that he made an enormous contribution to this country’s future, would his criminal conviction, as things stand, prevent him being made a Companion of Honour?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, my briefing assured me that honours were not to be withdrawn from people who have died, and I think that the awarding of honours to people who have died would also be outwith the honours system as it is currently understood. However, we would all strongly agree that Alan Turing suffered quite appalling discrimination. Both my parents-in-law worked with the noble Baroness at Bletchley Park.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, does not the nature of this Question indicate the scale of the disconnect between the people of this country and the politicians?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

Not entirely. The honours list in recent years has included an ever larger number of people who provide public service, often without reward, at the lower levels. I processed up the Abbey on Tuesday morning behind a lollipop lady who was there because we were demonstrating different forms of public service to the country. I am happy to say that the number of teachers, including head teachers, who receive awards has been increasing in recent years. Eight head teachers received senior honours in the latest honours list.

[Baroness Scotland of Asthal]

My Lords, what is the ethnic balance among those in the order?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

Amartya Sen, I have to say. The issue of ethnic balance is also one of which the various honours committees are extremely well aware. I think 6% of those in the latest honours list were members of ethnic minorities. We are conscious that we have to look actively at that issue. Again I would say to everyone here and to all those whom noble Lords know outside, we encourage public nominations. Perhaps I may also add, as someone who lives in Yorkshire, the English regions are underrepresented. If you live in London, Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales, you have a better chance of being honoured than if you live in Yorkshire or the north-east.

Lobbyists: Register

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 6th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they will introduce a register of lobbyists.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Government have repeatedly made clear their commitment to introducing a statutory register of lobbyists. We will introduce legislation to provide for a lobbying register before the Summer Recess.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, we probably all agree that this is a difficult matter and that it is gratifying to learn from the Minister that the Government have plans to do something about it. I am sure he will agree that it is a pity that we are having this discussion now in the glare of further unwelcome and, on the whole, ill intentioned media attention, particularly as the coalition agreement, as I understand it, committed in 2010 to,

“regulate lobbying through introducing a statutory register of lobbyists”.

Does he further agree, however, that the regulation of lobbying is a separate issue from reforming funding of political parties? Can he confirm that the Government will not conflate these two matters in any legislation they now bring forward?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

The Government do not intend to conflate these matters although there is a degree of overlap between the two. The Government intend to look at the question of third-party funding of political activities, including the issue of campaign groups which are not affiliated with political parties spending money during election campaigns. The Electoral Commission has annotated that some £3 million was spent during the last election by a number of organisations with the intention to influence the election.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, the Minister has indicated that he sees a need, quite rightly so, for the ability to remove from this House people who have been convicted of serious criminal offences. Can we take it that he will now abandon his long-standing opposition to the Steel Bill, which this House has sought to introduce on several occasions and which would have provided for this very measure?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, discussions are under way on that question and it is likely that a Bill will be introduced in the next Session which will deal with a number of such issues to do with parliamentary behaviour and what is called parliamentary housekeeping.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, would journalists who have credentials in both Houses be entitled to be on the register for lobbyists? In other words, will they be allowed dual membership?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, one of the reasons why it has taken much longer than we intended to produce a statutory register of lobbyists is because the definition of who is a lobbyist is extremely difficult. The Labour Government before this Government also struggled with that. As all who have studied this area will know, the issue is whether one simply limits the register to third-party lobbyists—those who are professional lobbyists working on behalf of someone else—extends it to the category of lobbyists for for-profit companies such as the entire public affairs sector of a major company or beyond there to those who lobby for non-profit organisations such as Oxfam, Christian Aid or the RSPCA. That takes one into an extremely wide area which is difficult to define.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

Given that it has been over a year since the consultation concluded, we welcome the announcement today that there will be a Bill before the Summer Recess. However, will the Minister now ensure that his department replies to the letter from my honourable friend in the other place, Jon Trickett, asking for immediate cross-party talks on this issue? There is agreement about the need for a register and for a code of conduct. Cross-party talks on those issues in the immediate future would be welcome. Can the Minister confirm that he will do that?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I take the point. Of course, as in all delicate legislation of this kind, the wider the consensus we can get the better. The lobbying area is immensely more complex than I understood before I began to go into it. This is one of the many areas where we need to work together as widely as we can.

[Lord Tyler]

On the answer that he has just given, can my noble friend confirm that the Labour Party, which, after all, failed over 13 years to deal with this problem, is prepared to co-operate fully so that we can take the whole issue under consideration? All three parties committed themselves to taking big money out of politics. Can he confirm that the Government’s objective is to have maximum transparency and simplicity so that our fellow citizens can see precisely where influence and access are being bought? In that context, can he also indicate that that should be the objective even if sometimes that big money is being used in a tax-efficient way?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, every three months I am amazed by the detail in which the Government Whips’ Office on behalf of the Cabinet Office Propriety and Ethics Team goes through my diary and asks me exactly who I met and when. This Government are extremely tight in terms of looking at who has contact with all members of the ministerial team. The problem, of course, is that we meet all sorts of people. I have one or two friends from school or university who are now working in major public affairs organisations. If I meet them as part of that friendship, do we also happen to overlap into other matters? There are many difficult issues around how this can be taken and where to draw the line.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there is nothing intrinsically wrong in lobbying provided that it is undertaken within a proper framework that is transparent and that, if done properly, it can serve the interests of Members of all parties in both Chambers? One thinks of disability lobbying, for example. Is it not in the interests of lobbyists themselves, as well as Members of both Chambers, that a new framework is introduced?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I could not have put it better on behalf of the Government, and I note the consensus on a cross-party basis to that effect. The noble Lord may have seen the story in the Financial Times yesterday to the effect that public affairs consultants are thinking of taking to the European Court of Human Rights the case that to submit them to a statutory register—but only those who are third-party lobbyists—would be an infringement of their human rights. I think that that will be an interesting case to try to get the European Court of Human Rights to take.

[Lord Wills]

My Lords, the Minister said that the Government are looking to regulate third-party funding in election campaigns. Can he confirm that that will include referendum campaigns?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I cannot confirm that, but I imagine that it would. Discussions are still under way, but I take the point. Clearly, there are slightly different rules for referendum campaigns, and as I recall from previous referendums, there have been umbrella bodies which have had to declare their funding. We are thinking much more about the sort of campaign groups which we have seen growing up, be they animal welfare groups, low tax groups and so on, trying to intervene. Again, we want to make sure that everything is as transparent as possible in the political process. I will come back to the noble Lord on the referendum issue.

Elections (Fresh Signatures for Absent Voters) Regulations 2013

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Elections (Fresh Signatures for Absent Voters) Regulations 2013.

Relevant document: 1st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I congratulate the Lord Chairman on his optimism in estimating the timing. In moving the Elections (Fresh Signatures for Absent Voters) Regulations 2013, I shall speak also to the National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) (Fresh Signatures for Absent Voters) Order 2013. These measures arise from consultation with electoral registration officers and others on timing and the most convenient way to handle the transition from the current system to individual electoral registration.

The fresh signatures regulations amend provisions concerning the requirement for absent voters to provide a fresh signature at five-yearly intervals for the purposes of UK parliamentary, local government and European parliamentary elections in England, Wales and Scotland. The order concerning the National Assembly for Wales makes similar provision in relation to elections to the National Assembly for Wales. The purpose of the instruments is to move the timing of the absent voter signature refresh due in January 2014 in Great Britain, and that due in Scotland in January 2015, so that both are held in August 2013. This will avoid the refreshes that are scheduled to take place during the transition to individual electoral registration taking place at the same time as canvass activity by electoral registration officers, which could result in confusion for electors.

The Electoral Administration Act 2006 provided for the use of personal identifiers by absent voters to strengthen the security of absent voting. Under the Act, applicants for a postal or proxy vote must provide personal identifiers—their date of birth and signature—which are retained by EROs. Postal voters are required to provide these personal identifiers when voting by post at subsequent elections. Returning officers will carry out checks on the personal identifiers provided at elections, and if they do not match with those originally given the postal vote is deemed invalid.

Under electoral law, electoral registration officers are required by 31 January every year to write to absent voters whose signature is more than five years old—in other words, long-term absent voters—to request a fresh signature to ensure that up-to-date signatures for absent voters are kept by EROs. Long-term absent voters, I suspect, include a number of people in this Room, certainly me, as I am never quite sure whether I will be in Yorkshire or London when it comes to voting. Many of us will be affected by this. This is important, given that a person’s signature may change over time and a postal vote cast at an election may be declared invalid if the signature on the postal voting statement does not match that held by the ERO on the personal identifiers record. Dates of birth do not change or degrade, so those are not required to be refreshed.

The Government have discussed with electoral stakeholders the timing of absent voter signature refreshes in Great Britain in 2014 and 2015 during the transition to IER. As noble Lords will know, we have provided that the 2013 annual household canvass period, which would otherwise have taken place between July and December 2013, will now run from 1 October 2013 and result in a revised register being published by 17 February 2014 in England and by 10 March 2014 in Scotland and Wales. Noble Lords will remember that we discussed this previously. Thereafter, the Government’s plan is for the transition to IER to begin in the summer of 2014 in England and Wales, with the first transitional canvass published at the usual time for revised registers—by 1 December 2014. Following confirmation that the referendum in Scotland will be held on 18 September 2014, the Government intend that the transition to IER there will take place after that poll. The 2014 canvass period in Scotland will be postponed to begin on or around 1 October 2014 and finish with the publication of the first transitional canvass there early in 2015.

There was a general concern among electoral stakeholders that combining an absent vote signature refresh with canvass activity during this period could be confusing for electors. Electors, for example, could receive from their ERO a letter that confirms their registration and explains that no action is needed to remain registered and to retain their absent vote but at the same time be asked to provide a fresh signature for absent voting purposes, where failure to respond means the loss of the absent vote. Therefore, having the refresh before these letters go out will provide a more logical and understandable sequence. The Government have listened to the views expressed by the EROs and agree that the interests of voters would be better served by moving the signature refresh scheduled for January 2014 in Great Britain to take place before the 2013-14 household canvass.

After discussions with the Scottish Assessors Association, we propose that the signature refresh scheduled for January 2015 in Scotland should also be moved to 2013 to avoid the possibility of it occurring at the same time as IER activity by EROs there in January 2015. The signature refresh in January 2015 in England and Wales is to be left unchanged as this issue only arises only for Scotland. The instruments we are considering today make the necessary amendments to electoral law to provide for the signature refreshes to be moved as I have outlined above. It may be helpful if I briefly explain the changes made by the regulations.

Regulation 2 amends the Representation of the People (England and Wales) Regulations 2001 to provide that absent voters for UK parliamentary and local elections in England and Wales who would otherwise be requested by the electoral registration officer to provide a fresh signature in January 2014 will instead be requested to do so between 1 and 19 August 2013. Regulation 3 similarly amends the Representation of the People (Scotland) Regulations 2001 in relation to absent voters for UK parliamentary and local elections in Scotland, although it applies to such absent voters who are due a signature refresh in 2014 or 2015. Regulation 4 makes provision for these changes in relation to absent voters in Great Britain and Gibraltar by amending the European Parliamentary Elections Regulations 2004.

The National Assembly for Wales order follows very similar purposes. I hope that noble Lords will accept that it may not be necessary to go into similar detail on the National Assembly for Wales. I fear that on one or two occasions I did not check in my notes when I should refer to England, England and Wales or Great Britain and Scotland. From my notes, I think there is at least one occasion when I referred to Great Britain when I should have referred to England or England and Wales, for which I apologise. Nevertheless, I hope that noble Lords have followed me through the intricacy of these regulations.

These instruments make sensible and appropriate changes to avoid any potential confusion for absent voters in the transition to individual electoral registration, and to ensure that signatures are updated for absent voters ahead of the polls in 2014 and 2015 across the whole of Great Britain—and in this case, it does mean the whole of Great Britain. I beg to move.

[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, I rise to talk briefly about this order and then I will ask my noble friend one or two questions. The Electoral Commission has asked us to ask for certain assurances from the Government. The explanation given by my noble friend covers what it has said but others may refer to that. The proposals as set out seem entirely sensible as a practical way of getting to grips with the very complex and quite large number of processes that local electoral registration officers have to carry out to introduce individual registration. Moving the date of the five-yearly renewal of postal voters’ signatures seems sensible.

While we are talking about postal voters and signatures, it seems a reasonable opportunity to ask my noble friend where the Government stand on a number of related issues. I hope that he will bear with me on this. First, what was the result of the first round of getting fresh signatures after five years, which I think started earlier this year, in January, and took place in the spring before this year’s local elections? I am interested in the proportion of people throughout the country who have postal votes. My noble friend can define “country” as he wishes. I am interested in England but also in knowing what happens in other parts of the United Kingdom. What proportion of the people who previously had postal votes submitted new signatures, and so maintained their registration, and what proportion fell out for whatever reason? I am interested in whether that information is available at the level of electoral registration authorities—that is, local authorities and district councils.

Secondly, to what use are the signatures put when people send in their postal votes? Is the information available, or will it be available, on how many postal votes are not counted due to the information on the postal vote statements, which are submitted with the postal votes, not matching? That is, if the signatures on the application for postal votes, whether it is the original application or the refresher we are talking about today, do not match the signature that is submitted with the postal vote; or, indeed, if the dates of birth or the electoral numbers do not match, which is quite possible. Is that information known? In other words, do we know for each election that takes place how many postal votes are not rejected or even counted but are put to one side and not put into the count? Clearly, that is an indication of people losing their vote, either because they have made a mistake or because of electoral fraud. Given that this is the basic reason why signatures were introduced for postal votes, it seems to me that having that information would be very useful.

Thirdly, if the returning officer in an election is concerned that discrepancies of the kind I have just been talking about could be a result of electoral fraud, is the Government’s advice to him to investigate those further, to refer them to the police or just to put them to one side and ignore them?

One of the things that I have been going on about in your Lordships’ House for some time is the need for a system to inform electors if, for any of the reasons we have been talking about, particularly discrepancies regarding signatures, their vote is not being counted. If an elector does not know this is happening—for example, if there is fraud they may not know that they are being defrauded, or if there has simply been a mistake—they are being deprived of their vote for reasons that might technically be their fault but are certainly not deliberate on their part. That does not seem very fair. I understand that the Government intend to give advice to returning officers on this matter. Can my noble friend tell me when that might be done?

To put this in context, in the county council elections this year in my own borough of Pendle, which is part of Lancashire where there are six county council seats, the operation of the elections and the counting of the votes took place at borough level. In total, 302 postal votes were returned but not counted because either the signatures or the dates of birth did not match. My noble friend said that dates of birth do not degrade or change. I am not sure what “degrade” means in this context, but it is a nice word. However, it is not entirely true because people born in third-world countries, including Pakistan, may not know their date of birth, so what they put down may be a bit arbitrary. Often they write 1 January of the year in which they think they were born, but they might not even give that date. Dates of birth may not be known and people do not get them right all the time.

There can be a mismatch of signature, a mismatch of the date of birth, or both, or the ballot paper may have been returned in an envelope whose number did not match. As noble Lords will know, it is a complicated system. There is a little envelope and a big envelope and they must both have the same number on them. No fewer than 61 postal votes were rejected because they were wrong. In fact, quite a lot of votes come back in the wrong envelope because, for example, an elderly couple might mix up the envelopes and ballot papers. People on the ground will keep those to one side and try to match them up as best they can. Even so, some are not counted. It worked out at around 4% of all the postal votes that came in. That was the position in just one recent election.

These are important and interesting issues that need to be tackled if the exercise we are considering in these regulations is to work as efficiently as it might. I look forward to what the Minister has to say. He may not have all the information to answer all these questions today, although I did submit them to him earlier. However, I would be grateful for a letter and for him to place a copy in the Library of the House.

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[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, perhaps I may ask the indulgence of the Committee in order to congratulate the Minister not only on having sung at the Queen’s Coronation 60 years ago, but on his role in the Abbey today to commemorate that occasion. I am sorry that we are not seeing him in all his glory this afternoon. When I was a student, we used to move that the minister “do now sing”; maybe I should not do that.

On the two statutory instruments, including the one for Wales, one of the questions is quite similar to one raised by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves: how many absent votes does the Minister estimate are covered by each of these two SIs? In other words, how many that would normally be written out in Wales and England are covered by this?

Related to that, what is the Government’s assessment of the number of likely renewals, particularly given that these are going out in the August holiday period? That has been a worry for the Electoral Commission, and is a worry as, not only is your Lordships’ House on holiday during the first two weeks of August, but so are many other people.

Although the word “stakeholders” was used by the Minister, what is the view of the political parties of this proposal? As I mentioned before in Committee, they are rather expert on all of this, as has been evidenced by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, this afternoon.

In the form that will go out on the mere matter of the refreshment of the signatures, will there be any advance notice about the move to individual electoral registration? In other words, is it part of the preparation that is being made? I know that the Electoral Commission still has some concerns over the October 2013 annual canvass date and what impact it might have on absent voters. We would be interested to know what the Government’s response to the issue raised by the Electoral Commission has been. In general, however, we support the regulations and the order.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her compliment, although the compliment I have really liked over the past two or three weeks has been from those who have said that they find it difficult to believe that I could have sung at the coronation because I look far too young. I am sorry that she missed that one.

These regulations are important because we are all concerned to get the transition to individual electoral registration right. We will in time bring some further regulations back to the Committee. While many of them seem incredibly technical and complex, it is important that we manage to end up with a new register that is as complete and as accurate as possible. The integrity of the electoral register is also an important matter.

I remember many years ago my noble friend Lord Greaves raising in the House the question of postal vote fraud in open elections and getting a very dusty response from almost all Benches on the grounds that this was not considered a serious problem. It is now a good deal better understood that this has, in a number of highly localised areas, been quite a serious problem that was not fully picked up and has not attracted the level of prosecution that one really ought to have seen. However, it is one that these identifiers are intended to pick up.

I will try to answer some of these difficult questions. On dates, and when one does the write-around and the canvass, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, will recall that we had a discussion as to when it was most useful to do the house-to-house canvass, and I wrote to her in the spring to point out that I had in some ways misled the Committee by suggesting that March was a good time to go around house by house, because there was deep snow in Saltaire past Easter Day. Whatever we do, there is never a perfect answer, but we are trying to do our best on all of this.

I will try to answer some of my noble friend Lord Greaves’s questions, and then promise that I will write to him on others. He will of course know that many of these statistics are not collected centrally. Electoral registration officers are local appointees and the administration of voting is still a local authority matter.

[Lord Greaves]

I am told by my local electoral registration officer that there is something called a Form K, which I have never seen, which is submitted after an election. She is in the process of doing it now for the county elections, I think, and it does include a lot of this information. I presume it goes to the Electoral Commission.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I hope that it does. I will do my best to investigate and come back to the noble Lord on that.

I am told that approximately 150,000 postal votes have been rejected at each recent national poll across Great Britain—I hope that does mean across Great Britain—because one or more of the personal identifiers on the postal voting statement did not match those originally submitted or because one or more of the identifier fields had been left blank. Statistics on rejection rates are recorded by returning officers and are submitted, perhaps on Form K, to the Electoral Commission for collation. Although figures for the May 2013 local elections are not yet available, I understand that the Electoral Commission plans to publish information on turnout once all these data have been received and collated.

On the question of getting fresh signatures after five years, we do not hold this information centrally. I hope it will be considered helpful that, according to my team, one ERO spoken to has told us that in his or her area in 2012, out of nearly 22,000 electors sent a postal vote refresh notification, some 1,800 did not respond and 565 said that they no longer wanted one. That gives noble Lords a level of the turnover in 2012, for which there are many reasons. In 2013, of 21,000 electors sent a postal vote refresh notification, some 4,355 did not respond and 934 said that they no longer wanted one.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

That was very useful. However, the Minister said the first figure, 22,000, was from one ERO. He may not be able to tell us now, but is that from one whole constituency? I am trying to work out the percentage each January who would be likely to come up for signatures. The response rate is very useful but it would also be useful, if not now then later, to know what the 22,000 figure is as a proportion of the voters.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I understand that. The noble Baroness will know that the proportion of postal voters varies quite radically from one area to another. It is not a uniform pattern across the country. We will see what we can do to provide some more comparative statistics.

On the third of the questions put by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, it is for individual returning officers to judge whether a mismatched date of birth or signature gives them grounds to report the matter to the police. The Electoral Commission and the Association of Chief Police Officers produce joint guidance for electoral administrators on electoral integrity, which includes such matters. Electoral administrators and the Electoral Commission have noted in recent years that the majority of mismatches appear to arise from inadvertent errors such as a deteriorated signature or the accidental completion of the date of birth field with today’s date.

The Government intend introduce a system to inform electors if ballot papers have not been counted. We introduced a provision in the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013, which will allow regulations to be made setting out the circumstances in which electoral registration officers must inform electors, after a poll, where their postal vote identifiers failed to match. EROs will have discretion not to write to individual electors where malpractice is suspected. This will not include situations where ballot paper numbers do not match those on the postal voting statement as electoral administrators already have the facility to unite ballot papers with the proper postal voting statements for them to be checked and counted where these are returned separately, for example where two people in a household inadvertently swap their ballot papers. We intend to introduce this provision for the polls in 2014.

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[Lord Jones]

The noble Lord’s speech is coming to a conclusion, but I mentioned Wales to him. Has he had any consultation with the Government in Cardiff about how they would respond to this debate?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, we have regular consultation with the authorities in Cardiff, and I am sure that we will continue to interact with them and, indeed, with the Scottish authorities in a rather different capacity. I discovered over the course of dealing with the Bill, and now the Act, that there is a very tight sub-community of electoral administrators who love talking to each other, who love talking to visitors at some length about the work they do and who work extremely hard, which means that interaction with them is very easy because they are very willing to help and explain.

[Lord Jones]

The Minister now speaks poetry.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I thank the noble Lord. There were a number of questions and some of the answers are coming at me from the Box faster than I can absorb them. I was asked whether it would be inconvenient for the signature refresh to be run during August. We recognise that it is not ideal, but it is essential that absent voter signatures are refreshed before the earliest time that EROs may start the 2013 annual canvass, which we have previously agreed will be from 1 October. For reasons that I have explained, the Electoral Commission has indicated that it is content with the policy objective and the drafting of the signature refresh regulations. We will, of course, monitor very carefully how this goes through, and if there is too much difficulty or too much failure to respond, we may have to adapt and try again. I rehearsed previously the reasons why we wish to start the household canvass earlier.

We are managing this transition very carefully and actively. I stress again that we see this as an all-party concern. We all want to achieve a new register that is as accurate and complete as possible in England, Scotland and Wales.

[Lord Greaves]

Will my noble friend confirm that if an elector gets a form before 19 August but returns it after 19 August because they have gone on holiday or for whatever other reason that will not debar them from continuing to have a postal vote and the form will be dealt with properly if they return it at the end of August or in September?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, under the instruments, EROs will have the flexibility to write out absent voters in the period from 1 to 19 August 2013. In line with the existing provisions for signature refreshes, EROs will give absent voters six weeks to respond from the date they are written to, with a reminder sent if necessary after three weeks. That seems to me to cover most of the people who are likely to be written to, although I have promised my wife that after the 2015 election I might take her on an eight-week cruise around the world.

Motion agreed.

National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) (Fresh Signatures for Absent Voters) Order 2013

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

The Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) (Fresh Signatures for Absent Voters) Order 2013.

Relevant document: 1st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

Motion agreed.

EUC Report: EU External Action Service

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 3rd June 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I should explain that it was a simple mistake that my noble friend Lady Warsi was put down on today’s list of speakers instead of me. I volunteered some weeks ago to take this debate because I had just made a speech at a conference for the Foreign Office on the development of the External Action Service, had done a considerable amount of work, had had briefings from officials and had talked to people in Brussels. It seemed rather idiotic that, my having put in that effort, she should then have to do the same and duplicate that work. This happens to be one of the few subjects on which I am mildly well informed, and I find this much more comfortable than answering questions on South Sudan, North Korea or other things that one occasionally has to do. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, for his reference to the Coronation. I was indeed rehearsing in the Abbey this morning for the very small role that I will be playing in tomorrow’s service, but I shall be singing rather more deeply than I did some 60 years ago.

The Government are extremely grateful to the committee for this report, particularly for the speed at which it was completed so that it could feed in to the discussion at the informal Foreign Affairs Council in March. That helps very much to ensure that informed British views carry. We all know, and I have certainly experienced this many times in Brussels and Strasbourg, that reports from this committee are widely read and respected.

The Foreign Secretary has set out the Government’s position on the review in a recent letter to the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, which has been shared with Parliament. In it, he welcomed the fact that the noble Baroness has set up from scratch a service that has now moved beyond the initial institutional issues to focus on a number of key foreign policy priorities. Like many of those who have spoken in this debate, the Government look forward to the EEAS continuing to focus on those areas where it can really add value by complementing and supplementing the work of member states’ diplomatic services.

Mention has been made of the valuable work on Iran. I add to what has been said in this debate that the value of the EU is sometimes that it appears to be slightly more neutral than individual states. In those parts of the world, particularly the Middle East, where there is sensitivity about the imperial past, and where echoes of the imperial past carry against Britain, France and sometimes others, the collective weight of the EU can therefore sometimes be more helpful. That is also true, to some extent, of the western Balkans.

I also noted the point made in the report about the collective weight of the European Union’s multilateral institutions. There are now some 28 states working together, with Croatia joining, plus a number of others often voting with them, which amplifies the weight of states like the UK when we all agree. The work of the E3+3, in which the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, has been playing a collective role for the smaller states, has been very valuable in a number of ways. I note the subtle distinction between what I read in the American press about the P5+1 and in the British press about the E3+3. I am sure that the Committee understands the subtle distinctions in those descriptions of the same process.

I was quite surprised not to hear Members picking up the issue of the comprehensive approach. The issue of trying to build a much more comprehensive approach using the different levers of EU policy is part of what this has all been about. We note that the Americans, in some ways, envied the European Union in its ability to bring together aid, humanitarian intervention and a number of military instruments in the way that NATO cannot. Trying to bring together the EU-wide levers of influence, aid instruments, trade access and sanctions is very much part of what we are all attempting to do.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, asked me how this would help to promote policy coherence, to which one has to say that there are a number of aspects to this. The rivalry between different directorates-general in the Commission and between different Commissioners is a problem, but the extent to which domestic lobbies in different countries and their collective representatives in Brussels do their utmost to resist the policy coherence that he and I would love to have—for example, in trade policy toward north Africa and west Africa—so that trade policy does not cut across what we are trying to do in terms of development policy is something that we are stuck with as a problem of our domestic politics.

A number of noble Lords also spoke about the budgets. We have worked very hard to promote budget neutrality. We note the issue of high salaries. From anecdotal conversations that I have had, particularly with a number of people in the newer member states, I am conscious that if you come from a poorer state which is a net beneficiary of the EU budget, these issues may seem rather less important than they do to the net contributors. For those who have struggled away in national politics for some time, the thought of being appointed to an international post that will pay them far more than they are paid in their national Government has a real appeal. However, Her Majesty’s Government will continue to battle away on this front.

A number of people have also spoken about British representation in the institutions. We are very concerned to promote a high level of British representation in this new institution from the Commission, from direct recruitment and from secondees. Of course, there are problems with languages. The last time I was in Brussels I was talking with a senior official in UKREP about how we could encourage more British applicants to go through the concours to join the Commission and to gain the language skills needed. He said that by far the best way was to get them to marry someone from another country so that they will then acquire the language and, furthermore, they will agree that it is easier to live in Brussels than either of their home countries. Perhaps that is the gospel of despair. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, that we all recognise that have a great deal to do in this country on languages. The international languages, such as French, particularly for Africa, Spanish, particularly for Latin America, Arabic and Mandarin are extremely important and that requires a concentrated effort in schools as well as in universities. The noble Baroness knows as well as I do that applications to study languages at universities have been going down in recent years and that is one of the reasons why language departments in universities have been shrinking. That is all part of what we need to reverse.

A number of noble Lords also spoke about turf wars. The other day I heard from someone about the current tour of the head of the World Bank and the United Nations Secretary General to Congo. The remark by this international civil servant was that this was the first time they had managed to do something on such a good note between these traditionally deeply suspicious and uncooperative institutions. Rivalry among institutions, sadly, is a mark of international bodies. It helps that the new American head of the World Bank speaks Korean as his own language and the current Secretary General of the UN is a Korean. We have to work to reduce these turf wars.

That takes me into the question of deputies and competencies because, as the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, mentioned, the idea was that we would have clusters of commissioners and that the Relex group of commissioners would meet regularly. I regret, and the British Government regret, that the Relex group of commissioners has not met as regularly in the current Commission as it did in the previous Commission. Now that there are 28 commissioners, Her Majesty’s Government would very much like to move in the next Commission to a much greater dependence on clusters of commissioners, with vice-presidents, in effect, as their chair, and it seems to us entirely appropriate as part of that that one of the clusters should be an active group of external commissioners working more closely together. That would also help to reduce the element of turf wars with different commissioners and their different directorates-general promoting nuances of difference against each other. It would certainly reduce some of the weight which overloads the current high representative.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, spoke about the importance of understanding the difference between large state interests and small state interests, which is fundamental to all this. It is quite clear that for small states the EEAS is a tremendous boon. It gives them knowledge and representation in states which they had not covered before. For large states, that is less essential, although, as the squeeze on our budgets persists and as the number of member states in the UN expands beyond 190, it is not possible for all of us to be represented in all those places. Indeed, there are a number of places where the EEAS is represented where the UK is not.

Pooling and sharing is part of what we are moving towards in this area as in the common security and defence policy. We are now co-located with the Germans in Antananarivo in Madagascar as part of moving the British back into resident representation there, and also in Quito, Pyongyang and Reykjavik. I have visited the building the British and Germans have in Reykjavik on several occasions over the past 10 years. We are co-located with the French in Chisinau and Valetta, with the Dutch and the Danes in Baghdad and Beirut, with the European Union, the Germans and the Dutch for some years now in Dar-es-Salaam and with the EU, the French and the Germans in Bishkek and in Astana, a new national capital, jointly with the EU, the French, the Germans, the Italians, the Dutch and the Austrians. We are working together practically where we can and it provides greater coherence. As I have travelled around, I have experienced generally extremely favourable comments from British ambassadors about the utility of EU delegations on the spot, particularly in countries some distance from the EU, and the way in which EU embassies—often only a few EU embassies—and the resident EU delegation have learnt to work together. There is common political reporting—of course, you cannot say everything because, in a group of 28 member states, not everyone has the same attitude to confidentiality and so sometimes you cannot put everything into a joint telegram that will be circulated around all 28 members—common intelligence and common representation to the host Government.

We have some problems with the way the EEAS was set up. As the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, said, and I had some sympathy with his speech, it was brought into being before its purposes had been entirely agreed. It is not the first time that has happened with an international organisation or a European institution. I am not at all sure people knew what the International Labour Organisation was going to do when it was created after the First World War. That is one of the reasons why we have some of these problems with the institutions. However, now that the EEAS is there, we have to make the best of it, and we certainly need to have as coherent a policy as we can in all of those areas where member states can agree a common policy.

Perhaps the committee will now move on to look at the question of whether we can agree a revision of the European security strategy for next December’s meeting of the European Council, which will focus on the common security and defence policy. It may be impossible to agree on a common EU security strategy again because we have not yet reached a sufficiently shared approach. That is why national Parliaments and committees meeting together for a more coherent dialogue on foreign policy and defence, and a common approach between national Parliaments, is what we need to encourage. I am glad to hear that that is developing more effectively through COSAC and other areas.

The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, asked about more engagement with Latin America. I am glad to be able to tell her that the new head of the European delegation in Bolivia will be a British national—who, I assume, must have absolutely fluent Spanish—on secondment to EEAS. There is a clear recognition that the EU has to be in partnership with many other South American states apart from Brazil.

I have discussed the question of language. I hope that I have answered the questions of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby about structure. We need not only the right structures but a more coherent approach. That requires active dialogue among political elites and others in various countries to agree a common approach, which is often lacking. Those in the south look naturally to north Africa, those in the east look naturally to their eastern neighbourhood, and we have different sets of priorities and assumptions.

The right reverend Prelate talked about commitment to human rights and a values-based approach to foreign policy. Her Majesty’s Government were being criticised in Brussels the other week for having what others regard as a rather transactional approach to the European Union. I look forward to hearing the Church of England collectively demanding that we have a much more positive approach to European Union co-operation because we share values with our neighbours across the continent, something that the Daily Mail is not always willing to accept. I have also answered the question on the clusters of commissioners and touched on the question of the role of national Parliaments in promoting dialogue.

I think that that enables me to say that I have answered the three points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, on deputisation, turf-fighting and policy coherence. Let me therefore end by saying that the Government believe that the European External Action Service should focus on priorities agreed by member states in the Council. It should complement the member states’ diplomatic services, not replace them. Where there is no agreement among member states, we cannot expect the EEAS to bring coherence that reflects the nature of EU common foreign and security policy, but I hope that your Lordships agree that our current Foreign Secretary has been extremely active in working, above all, with our French and German partners and the other large, active diplomatic states to promote common positions where possible and, as far as we can, to carry the other, smaller member states with us in common policies toward our eastern neighbourhood, the deeply disturbed Middle East and the many weak states of Africa in which we have been active.

We look forward to the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, issuing her review of the EEAS in the summer. We very much welcome this constructive input into the debate. Her Majesty’s Government will respond to the review of the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, when it is completed. I thank all those who have contributed to this debate. The committee is extremely valuable and I look forward to the many future reports it will produce under its new chairman, who was once my boss and with whom I once wrote a short book on the future of British foreign policy in the 1990s.

EU: Reform

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the agenda for the forthcoming European Council on 22 May is tax, energy and an update on economic and monetary union. Our objective will be to secure EU support for a G8 commitment to a new global standard for tax and the multilateral automatic exchange of information on tax. We will also aim to secure agreement for a stable energy policy framework that provides growth, competitiveness and investment. The Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister have both been clear that the EU needs reform. The UK will continue to argue for reforms to ensure that the EU can better tackle the challenges it faces.

[Lord Dykes]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Bearing in mind the very sad humiliation and setback that the Prime Minister, absent in the USA, suffered yesterday, with a much larger vote than expected, would not the obvious solution, because of agreement by those two, therefore be to assign any negotiations to the Deputy Prime Minister and other Liberal Democrat Ministers in the Cabinet who have excellent relations with other EU member states and who would help to exorcise the Tory demons of xenophobia?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, this is a coalition Government, and we work as a coalition Government. There is substantial ground in the Government on a multilateral EU reform agenda. I spent three days in Brussels last week and was encouraged to find how much support there was for the sort of reform agenda we are talking about within other Governments and with a number of senior people in the EU institutions themselves.

[Lord Harrison]

My Lords, is it possible for the Minister to be more vague and imprecise about the exact nature of the reforms that the UK would wish to propose within the European Union?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, we are, of course, following up the PM’s speech with some detailed work under way at present on precisely what our reform agenda should be. I will simply set out that it includes changes in the EU budget. We have already made some progress on that in the multiannual financial framework, but that needs to continue. There will be a stronger role for national Parliaments. The Lisbon treaty allows for that, and we are encouraging our own Parliament and others to work more closely together. An external trade agenda will include in some ways more European action; the Prime Minister, after all, pursued that very thing in his discussions with President Obama in Washington. There will be a deepening of the single market, such as digital single market services. Therefore there is a range of areas, including better regulation and cleaning out some of the dead aspects of the acquis.

[Lord Renton of Mount Harry]

My Lords, does my noble friend know yet whether other countries will make proposals for the reform of the European Union? If so, for what purpose, and what will those proposals be?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

We have already had extensive discussions, particularly with the German Government but also with a number of others. There is the potential here for a like-minded group. Of course one has to work in shifting coalitions on many of these issues. On some issues, some member Governments agree strongly with the British Government’s proposals; on others, we have others to work with. On changing the culture of the EU institutions and perhaps changing the balance of portfolios in the next Commission, et cetera, discussions are already well under way.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Minister a question concerning Article 50 of the European treaty. As he will know, that is the provision that deals with the renegotiation of the treaty. Will he kindly tell the House whether any member state has invoked the provisions of that article, and, if so, with what result? Furthermore, will he tell the House that the Government will publish a list of the powers that they seek to have repatriated, so that the British people will be able, in the light of reason, to determine what the issues are rather than having to fumble about in a miasma of popular clichés?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I welcome the noble Lord’s support for a reasoned debate. The question is not about unilateral repatriation but about the multilateral reform of the EU.

[Lord Barnett]

My Lords, I am not sure whether the noble Lord can speak for the Prime Minister on this occasion, but will he tell us whether the major changes that he said he was looking for will require treaty change and the agreement of all 27 member states?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

Of course, many things require the agreement of nearly 28 member states—Croatia is about to join. There is a great deal that we can achieve without treaty change; the Lisbon treaty has considerable headroom in it. The question of whether we are likely to face treaty change in the next five years is much more to do with what form banking union takes—I am sure that the noble Lord read Mr Schäuble’s article in the Financial Times the other day—and with other areas of management of the eurozone.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, as a first step towards closing down the whole ill-fated project of European integration, why do Her Majesty’s Government not propose the abolition of the euro, with all its participants returning to their national currencies? Would that not start to ameliorate the suffering of the Greek, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Cypriot and—soon—French people? Would it not also give us financial and monetary clarity for the longer-term future?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I am fascinated by the way in which the noble Lord approaches some very complicated international issues. I am struck by the extent to which European Union regulation and global regulation go together. While the UK is inside the EU, we are playing a major part in negotiating global regulation, for example on tax and on how the global framework for digital regulation will evolve. If we were to leave the European Union, we would lose our influence over the evolution of global regulation—unless the noble Lord is such a free trader that he believes that we should have no global regulation at all.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the success of any proposals for reform that are pursued by the Government at the European Council will be severely diminished as a consequence of last night’s vote in the House of Commons, when the majority of Conservative MPs who voted voted against Her Majesty’s Government’s Queen’s Speech?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I agree that the degree of noise in the British domestic debate damages our ability to conduct a reasoned, multilateral negotiation with our European partners. We need a reasoned debate on the advantages and costs of EU membership.

Retail Prices Index

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government why the UK Statistics Authority overruled the recommendation and decision of the Office for National Statistics, following public consultation, to keep the Retail Prices Index as an official national statistic and whether they intend to challenge its downgrading.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the board of the UK Statistics Authority accepted the recommendations of the National Statistician both to produce a new index, to be known as RPIJ, and to retain the RPI as it is currently constructed. RPIJ is constructed in a way that meets current international standards whereas RPI was judged not to meet those standards. Because of this, the designation of the RPI as a national statistic was removed by the UK Statistics Authority, following a statutory reassessment which confirmed the finding of the National Statistician’s consultation that its formulation failed to meet current international standards.

[Lord Naseby]

Is my noble friend aware that this is a UK statistic and that international standards on statistics are, frankly, a little irrelevant? After all, is it not the case that the Office for National Statistics changed its mind from the original proposition, based on strong representations from finance, commerce, industry and savers? In the light of that, will my noble friend make further suggestions to the UK Statistics Authority that it thinks again and puts that badge of quality back on the RPI?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I was not aware that either mathematics or statistics differed according to national boundaries. The only statistics course I took was in the United States. I should have thought that international standards—those of Eurostat, the International Labour Organisation and the IMF—are standards that the UK should follow without wishing to bring the defence of national sovereignty or hatred of the European Community into account.

[Lord Peston]

My Lords, does the Minister agree— I am sure he will agree as his background is similar to my own on this matter—that there is no such thing as a perfect price index—far from it? Those of us who taught the subject spent all the time explaining why there is no such thing. Is it not for the Government to explain what they want to use this particular index for? Is it to measure the inflation rate, in which case the RPI is not, in my view, the right index and the GDP deflator is, or is it to measure the cost of living? Even then, they have to answer the question: whose cost of living? Does the Minister agree with that?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I have gone back into the area of statistics and I am happy to tell the House that there is a range of different measures of inflation in Britain—the RPI, RPIJ, RPIX, which excludes mortgage costs, and the RPIY, which excludes tax changes. Then there are the CPI, CPIH, CPIY and CPICT. I hesitate to explain all these in detail to the House.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, what advice does the Minister have for those widespread organisations which have historically used the RPI to alter pensions and salaries? They are unclear as to which of the various measures that the Minister just mentioned they should use for those purposes.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, they should not be unclear. The decision to maintain the RPI was taken precisely to leave clarity on the various forms in which the RPI is used as a reference point. I am quite clear from what I have read that the RPI as measured has an underlying upward bias of currently about 0.9% a year above CPI. That means that the Government end up paying more for index-linked bonds and elsewhere, which, in the long run, is against the interests of taxpayers although very much in the interests of investors and pensioners.

[Lord Barnett]

My Lords, the problem is not whether the Minister agrees with my noble friend Lord Peston. Is not the real problem with all these statistics whether anyone believes any forecast of anything? Is not the problem therefore not which is used but believing them?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, we could try giving up and steering in the dark if we want to, but trying to assess as well as we can what is happening in our economy and in the economies of our partners is a necessary part of the way we have to operate. We recognise that all measures will be imperfect. The decision to make changes in the RPI was taken to make it a little less imperfect than it was.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, as the Minister who, a little over 30 years ago introduced RPIX, is not the most important thing to forget about all these indices and just to keep inflation really low? Then the difference between these indices is neither here nor there.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

Digging into this, I am told that one of the problems is the way in which the RPI was estimated. They changed the way in which they calculated changes in the pricing of clothing, which got more and more difficult as discount stores were adopted. That is why the gap between CPI and RPI has widened in the past four or five years. That has a substantial knock-on effect for the Government, the Exchequer and for consumer prices.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith]

My Lords, in order to overcome the notion of dodgy statistics, the Minister will be aware that Parliament set up an independent body in the UK Statistics Authority which was first chaired by Sir Michael Scholar. As a result of that, he and others have resisted the massaging of statistics by politicians. Is not the UK Statistics Authority a bulwark to prevent the massaging of statistics by politicians? Therefore, we must commend the work of the UK Statistics Authority and resist any breach of it by politicians or others.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, one of the best things done in this area by the previous Government was to establish the UK Statistics Authority as an independent body. The decision was criticised on all sides. Some noble Lords will remember the article in the Financial Times by Chris Giles which said that it was appalling not to have abolished the RPI and move all the way towards the CPI.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Did the Minister notice the other day that Sir Mervyn King, the outgoing Governor of the Bank of England, said that one of the main contributors to rising RPI and therefore rising inflation was higher energy taxes? Every time the RPI goes up, it generates a gigantic increase in public expenditure through indexed provisions in the public sector. Could he possibly advise his friends to think again about some of the higher taxes that are being piled onto our energy costs in industry and in the home?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right to say that the extent to which tax increases are factored into the calculation of inflation is one of the problems. If you are not careful, when inflation is rising, you get into a positive feedback as mortgage interest rates rise, and that increases the measurement of inflation.

Official Statistics Order 2013

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That the draft orders and regulations laid before the House on 14 and 25 February be approved.

Relevant document: 21st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 19 March.

Motions agreed.

Representation of the People (Election Expenses Exclusion) Order 2013

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That the draft order laid before the House on 30 January be approved.

Relevant document: 19th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 12 March.

Motion agreed.

Official Statistics Order 2013

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Grand Committee

Moved By

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Official Statistics Order 2013.

Relevant document: 22nd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, all Members of the Committee will be aware of the important work being done by the UK Statistics Authority. This body was created in 2008 with a statutory responsibility to,

“promote and safeguard the production and publication of official statistics”,

which includes monitoring of and reporting on official statistics.

Under the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007, statistics produced by the Office for National Statistics, government departments, the devolved Administrations and other Crown bodies are automatically deemed to be official statistics. The Act also makes provision for identifying other organisations as producers of official statistics. This is important, as it enables their work to fall within the remit of the authority and the public to have added confidence in their statistics. The purpose of this order, which is subject to affirmative resolution, is to specify these organisations.

The UK Statistics Authority has been consulted in preparing this order, in accordance with the Statistics and Registration Service Act, and is content for it to be laid. The Cabinet Office has laid this order on behalf of government departments, in preference to each department laying an order for the bodies for which it is responsible. This approach saves considerable parliamentary time.

This is the fourth use of this order-making power by a Minister of the Crown, and revokes and replaces the one that came into force on 3 December 2010. The previous order contained 57 bodies. The 2010 order was amended by Article 17 of the Education Act 2011 (Consequential Amendments to Subordinate Legislation) Order 2012. This omitted entries relating to the Qualifications and Curriculum Development Agency and the Training and Development Agency for Schools, which were abolished by the Education Act 2011. It will also be amended by the Financial Services Act 2012 (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Order 2013, which will come into effect on 1 April. This will reflect the change in name of the Financial Services Authority to the Financial Conduct Authority, which comes into effect on the same day.

In arriving at the current order, 21 bodies have been removed from the previous order and five new bodies have been added. Much of the reduction in the number of bodies is due to the recent reforms to public bodies. As noble Lords will recall, in 2010 the Government announced plans to reform 481 quangos to help reinvigorate the public’s trust in democracy; to ensure that the Government operate in a more efficient and businesslike way; and to radically increase the transparency and accountability of all public services. A number of these changes will come into effect on 1 April this year. It is important that these reforms extend to areas such as official statistics. Therefore, some of the changes have led to the streamlining of some statistics but those most important to public life have been preserved. The longer-than-usual hiatus between this order and the previous one has been to ensure that the new order fully captured these reforms.

In summary, this order reduces the number of bodies that are subject to the UK Statistics Authority’s oversight; those bodies listed on the order will have to work to the new code of practice for official statistics; and their statistics will have the potential to be nominated for formal assessment by the authority to be national statistics. I reassure the noble Baroness that I have discovered the difference between an official statistic and a national statistic, even though it took me some time. This House agreeing the order is a vital part of enhancing public confidence in official and national statistics, and I beg to move.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his introduction and explanation of this order. Perhaps the only point he missed was to stress the importance of always having accurate statistics, and indeed that is implicit in bringing forward the order today. It is a sign of the times that public confidence is higher and trust is greater in statistics if they are seen to be produced independent of government, and I think we should put on the record our praise of the UK Statistics Authority and of the Office for National Statistics, which is part of the executive wing, as it were, of the Statistics Authority. In many ways, the authority acts as a check and balance on some of the important areas of the economy. It is helpful that the Statistics Authority can look at statements and figures so that the policies of all political parties can be held to account. We can ask the Statistics Authority to check the accuracy of any statement that is made.

However, this is not just about the face value of statistics, but how they are used and how they can be misinterpreted either accidentally or deliberately. We have seen that recently. The Minister may be aware that the Statistics Authority had to write to MPs. Any of us can make a mistake, and in this case it was made in a Conservative Party political broadcast on 23 January. It got into a muddle between debt and deficit, and that had to be put right. My understanding is that the broadcast said that it had gone down, but information from the UK Statistics Authority showed that net public sector debt in June 2010, the end of the second quarter, was £811 billion, which represents 55.3% of gross domestic product, and that by the end of the fourth quarter 2012 it had risen to £1,011 billion. We should thank the Statistics Authority because it is able to make corrections to statements made by politicians of any party because it has the confidence of the public behind it.

I know that the noble Lord has worked through the order and looked at the different definitions. As a former Minister who was in the same position that he is in now, perhaps I should not have been puzzled by this, but I want to ask about the Statistics Board. The order refers to consultation with the board and it is referred to in the legislation, but it is actually the UK Statistics Authority and the ONS. The only reference I can find to a board is to the Board of the UK Statistics Authority, whose membership includes people from the ONS—the chief executive, the National Statistician and the Director General. I am slightly puzzled about why the order refers to the board when the entity is in fact the authority, but I hope I am correct in assuming that the board he is referring to is the board of the authority. It would be helpful if he could confirm that.

The board was consulted and I assume that the response to the changes being made was positive. It would be helpful to have the complete list in the schedule, but 21 organisations were removed. If I understood the Minister correctly, he has already answered part of my question in his opening. Part of that arises from the Public Bodies Act, about which he will understand we have mixed views, in particular with regard to the changes being made. If those organisations are no longer able to produce official statistics, does that mean that there is now a lack of available statistical information, or has the work of those 21 organisations which are no longer on the approved list been allocated to other organisations? Are we still able to get the kind of information that was being produced? Further, is the Minister able to provide a list of the 21 organisations? It would be helpful if he could write to me.

The explanatory note also said that the charities being included as producing official statistics will have no official burden placed on them. Does that imply that they have previously produced statistics of use to government and held in public regard, but that have not been regarded as official? If the Minister can say something about that, it would be helpful.

I was puzzled to find that two organisations were not on the list. As I mentioned to the Minister, later on today we will have a debate on crime statistics. It is helpful to have this debate today to help inform that debate later on. In my reading for that debate, it was clear that the UK Statistics Authority says that there are two sources of official figures for crime statistics: one is police records from individual police forces and the other is the British Crime Survey. Individual police forces are obviously not on here, I assume because they feed information to the Home Office which then issues that information. If I am wrong about that, I would be happy to be corrected. But the British Crime Survey is not here. It is interesting if the UK Statistics Authority recognises the British Crime Survey statistics as being very useful, if not “official”—because that is a legal term. If it uses those statistics, I wonder if it would be appropriate for the survey to be on the list. Why is it not?

My final point is on another organisation that I doubt has been missed: the Office for Budget Responsibility. When they came into power, the coalition Government were clear that they wanted to see independent figures and assessment of the economy, and set up the Office for Budget Responsibility in response to that. That was widely welcomed. Yet it is not included in the list. Clearly, it is highly regarded—as is what it produces. Like the UK Statistics Authority, it is a check and balance. The Prime Minister said in a speech on the economy:

“As the independent Office for Budget Responsibility has made clear, growth has been depressed by the financial crisis, by the problems in the eurozone and by a 60% rise in oil prices between”,

and he gave the dates.

“They are absolutely clear, and they are absolutely independent. They are absolutely clear that the deficit reduction plan is not responsible; in fact, quite the opposite”.

The head of the Office for Budget Responsibility then had to write to the Prime Minister to make clear that that was not the case. He said:

“I think it is important to point out that every forecast published by the OBR since the June 2010 Budget has incorporated the widely held assumption that tax increases and spending cuts reduce economic growth in the short term”.

Clearly the OBR has the authority and credibility to write to the Prime Minister when he gets something wrong in talking about statistics and the economy, but it is not listed as an official statistic-producing body. It would be useful were the Minister able to help me understand the reason for that.

Those are the only questions I have. Clearly, it is helpful to have the list and we are obviously supportive of the order. It would be helpful to have the responses to the questions I have asked.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her constructive speech. Of course, I should have said that this is very much an all-party set of issues. The last Government introducing this new system of greater independence for statistics was a very valuable contribution to more informed debate. I am in some ways a great admirer of the Daily Mail and its uses of statistics, and the wonderful way it manages to imply that statistics mean something entirely different from what most of us understand them to mean. Usually you have to read down to the tenth paragraph on the second page to discover that actually the story is not as good as it seems. In politics, we want an independent body that can point out that statistics cannot be twisted in that way. That is what this current system most attempts to do.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

Just as an aside, I owe the noble Lord an apology. In the last debate we had, I accused him of being a Guardian reader. I now appreciate that he is in fact a Daily Mail reader.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I do my best to skim through several newspapers of one sort or another.

The Explanatory Memorandum for this order lists the 21 bodies that are disappearing. I know that the noble Baroness will be deeply familiar with a number of them, such as the British Educational Communications and Technology Agency, the National College for Leadership of Schools and Children’s Services Limited, the National Patient Safety Agency, the National Policing Improvement Agency and so on. In almost all respects, the functions of those bodies have now been transferred to other executive agencies and the statistics which they were responsible for producing will thus be provided by the new agencies. However, I will check to see whether there are any holes in that and will, of course, write to the noble Baroness.

My understanding is that the Office for Budget Responsibility—again, I will check this and write to her to confirm it—rather like the National Audit Office, is an independent body and is thus responsible for its own quality assessment rather than being a government agency which has to be checked by the UK Statistics Authority. Similarly, the Bank of England’s statistics are not checked by the UK Statistics Authority because the Bank is an independent body which is responsible for its own statistics and their quality. That is my understanding on the OBR, but again I will check on that.

I will have to check which agency is now responsible for providing the crime survey. I suspect that it is under the Home Office, which will therefore be responsible for it.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for looking into this. As regards the 21 that were off the list, if he can write to me to clarify any gaps, that would be helpful.

I think the noble Lord will find that the British Crime Survey does not come from the Home Office. I drew a distinction between the police force figures, which I think may be produced by the Home Office, and the separate, more independent British Crime Survey. If the figures are used by the statistics authority, I wonder why they are not included in the list. I am very happy for the noble Lord to write to me on that.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I will check on that. It is absolutely right that we should use a case like this as a chance to check that reliable statistics on important matters are coming from agencies which we all respect.

Having answered those questions, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments and very much hope that the Committee will be willing to accept the Motion.

Motion agreed.