Arrangement of Business

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Question for Short Debate standing in the name of my noble friend Lord Lexden is now the last business for today. We have reached today’s target amendment for consideration on the Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill and have adjourned the same until Wednesday next week. The consequence for those taking part in the QSD is as follows: speaking times for my noble friends Lord Lexden and Lord Shutt remain unaltered, but the speaking time for all other Peers taking part in the debate is now increased from six minutes to a maximum of 10 minutes.

India

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, for initiating this debate. He said, among other things, in his opening remarks that “only when we seek active engagement with India” will we gain the right to criticise Indian policy. This Government is seeking active engagement with India. That is why the Prime Minister and a very large number of Ministers went out to India this time last year, and that is why we have a continuing programme of visits. We hope to have a bilateral summit very shortly, on a date which is yet to be agreed. It is a major and continuing project. So it is not a question of “only when”—we are attempting to do so.

There are some obstacles—perhaps on both sides. We have to engage with the Indians and we must recognise that in pursuing an enhanced partnership we have a great many competitors. Much has been said in intervening speeches about the decline in the number of Indian students coming to the United Kingdom. Indians have been going to the United States. The United States is the most popular foreign country within India and that is part of what we now have to compete with. As the noble Lord, Lord Giddens, and others know, this is in sharp contrast to the flow of Chinese students to Britain, which has continued to rise and is at a far higher level. It will take a good deal of time and effort to catch up to where we would like to be across a very broad number of spectrums. We have to attract the attention of the Indian elite and of the rising young Indian middle classes—the rising young Indian educated generation. We have to have a broad effort at trade and investment on both sides and further develop relations in the fields of climate change, defence and as an aid partnership.

Having such an excellent Indian diaspora here is a tremendous asset. As the flow of investment in both directions shows, this is already helping to develop closer links, in addition to the historical cultural relationship with India. We are all conscious that we have to build on this. The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, castigated the populist policies of the coalition Government on migration. As someone who does his politics in Yorkshire, I am very conscious that it is very often our settled ethnic communities who are themselves strongly supportive of tougher rules on immigration. This is not an easy subject. I often find myself talking to people whose parents or grandparents came from south Asia and who want to know when we are going to stop more people coming in. I have a vivid memory of the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, and myself talking at the Hindu Cultural Centre in Bradford in the last election but one. The second question we had from the floor was: when are we going to stop more of these foreigners coming in? The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, understands that there are many difficulties in making a simple answer to the problems of immigration.

Noble Lords have already remarked that India is by now the third largest foreign investor in the UK. I believe the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, claimed that it is now the second largest. The UK is the fourth largest investor in India. We are attempting to encourage a rising flow in both directions. The enhanced partnership is, I stress, a partnership and it has to be a partnership of equals. We have to get rid of any sense that this is an ex-colonial relationship. As you will all know, the continued existence of the aid relationship with India has become a matter of some controversy in the right-wing press in Britain. It is our intention to move from an aid relationship concentrating on the four poorest states in India where—as the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, has remarked—there are still a great many extremely poor people, into a partnership with an Indian government which now has its own steadily increasing aid programme, so that we can share our experience in Africa and elsewhere with the Indians as they come in. That is a pattern which we see ourselves using across the board.

The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, has, to my great pleasure, mentioned that we already have a very useful partnership with Indian scientists and others in climate change and that has been invaluable in getting the global debate on climate change under way—not as the white countries telling others what to do, but as a shared concern about long-term environmental degradation.

The defence partnership is, at the moment, less developed than we would like it to be, although we find ourselves sharing the anti-piracy patrol with Indian ships off Somalia in the Indian Ocean. The Indians are now the largest single contributor to UN peacekeeping forces, so as a country which expects that its forces are most likely to be engaged in helping to reconstruct failed states—post-conflict reconstruction—we will very often find ourselves alongside forces from south Asia. We already have a number of officer exchanges on both sides, and again there are traditions on which to build. I was astonished and delighted to find myself at the National Defence College in Pune, sitting next to an Indian general who told me that his regiment was called Skinner’s Horse. I did not know they still had regiments like that in the Indian Army. We see ourselves moving towards future joint training, and I hope also to greater celebration of the past. That is because our young generation in this country, including the children of Asian immigrants, have forgotten that the largest single Commonwealth contingent in the Second World War came from the Asian sub-continent in the form of the Indian Army.

Many noble Lords have talked about the importance of universities and education. Already much effort is being made. The second tranche of the UK-India Education and Research Initiative is under way. Research Councils UK is working to improve collaboration at the highest levels, and I know that the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, knows what the British Academy is doing in this regard. I regret that student flows are not larger. My former university, the London School of Economics, has developed a number of joint degrees with Chinese universities, but it has been much more difficult to get into partnerships with Indian universities. We need to move further on this. We hope very much that the Indian Government will now complete the passage of the law which would allow foreign universities to set up campuses on the Indian sub-continent. It is a way of trying to increase the two-way flow, and I should mention that the Department for Education and others are hoping to encourage more British students to study at Indian universities. After all, India has some top quality universities. I can speak with some feeling on this since some years ago my son led the British “University Challenge” team that played the winner of the Indian equivalent and was soundly beaten in Delhi.

On visas, I have already mentioned that the situation is extremely complex and we are faced with a British population which has a range of contradictory pressures. However, we are aware of Indian concerns and are doing our best to meet them. On economic relations, many noble Lords have remarked that there is a great deal of good news on the way, but we need the Indians to open their market for services. The United Kingdom is above all a service exporter. Insurance, banking, legal expertise and accountancy are areas where we have the strength to compete much more effectively in the Indian market. We see the EU-India free trade area, which is still under negotiation and we hope will be completed in the next few months, as a major step forward.

I should like to end where I began by saying that the strength of the UK-Indian relationship lies in our historical ties and in the personal ties which the largest diaspora community in this country provides. It is economically successful in this country and the loyal links that people still have with India help to build economic ties in everything from the brewing industry to the pharmaceutical industry. We look to that as one of the many strengths we can pursue further in building a stronger relationship. Again, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, for allowing us to return to this subject, and I hope that we will consider it again soon.

Scotland: Civil Service

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 6th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what responsibility the Cabinet Secretary has for the work of the civil service in Scotland.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Cabinet Secretary is also the head of the UK Civil Service, including those parts supporting the devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

I thank the noble Lord for that clarification. Is the Minister aware that the Conservative, Liberal Democrat and Labour leaders in the Scottish Parliament have all made official protests over Sir Peter Housden, the Scottish Permanent Secretary, advising the SNP Government on tactics and policy in relation to the break-up of the United Kingdom? Surely it is the responsibility of Sir Gus O’Donnell to say to Sir Peter Housden that he should be advising the SNP Government only on devolved areas and not on matters which are reserved to this Parliament, particularly those which are politically sensitive.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I should of course declare a family interest. A relative of mine campaigned actively for Scottish independence and was executed by the English. I do not think that it is appropriate for a Minister to comment on the behaviour of a senior civil servant. I have read the Scottish press for the past week and I am well aware that the leaders of the three opposition parties in Scotland have written to the Cabinet Secretary. I will ensure that a copy of his reply, when it is ready, is placed in the Library of the House.

[Lord Lang of Monkton]

My Lords, is it not one of the strengths of the United Kingdom Civil Service that it is a United Kingdom body? In the past, great advantage has arisen for both sides when Scottish civil servants have served in United Kingdom departments and vice versa. Will my noble friend ensure that he makes every possible effort to prevent any diminution of this historic trend which might undermine the union?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, there are civil servants in Scotland working for the UK Government as well as civil servants in Scotland working for the Scottish Executive. This is a single Civil Service and there is extensive interchange. Indeed, the Permanent Secretary in Scotland about whom these complaints have been made has worked for a number of other institutions within the UK. Perhaps I might read the relevant parts of the Scottish version of the Civil Service Code, which was first issued in 2006. I shall quote from the 2010 version. It states:

“As a civil servant, you are accountable to Scottish Ministers, who in turn are accountable to the Scottish Parliament”.

A footnote adds:

“Civil servants advising Ministers should be aware of the constitutional significance of the Scottish Parliament and of the conventions governing the relationship between the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Executive”.

Perhaps I may add that the next paragraph states that,

“‘impartiality’ is acting solely according to the merits of the case and serving equally well Governments of different political persuasions”.

[Lord Sewel]

To go a little further on this, generally, would it be proper for any Permanent Secretary at the Scottish Executive to give policy development advice to Scottish Ministers on constitutional matters when the constitution is clearly and explicitly a reserved matter? Secondly, is it proper for the Permanent Secretary of the Scottish Executive to make clear in public his personal views on a matter of controversial policy?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, on the second of those two questions, my understanding is that this was an internal blog. Noble Lords will have their views on the advisability of blogging. It was leaked to the Scottish edition of the Daily Telegraph. There might be a certain lack of wisdom there.

On the first question, once we have a devolved Government, although constitutional matters are reserved to the UK Government they are bound to be discussed within the Scottish Government. How far civil servants should offer advice is an important question. There is also a director-general for constitutional reform in the Cabinet Office.

[Lord Butler of Brockwell]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that, just as it is the duty of the rest of the Civil Service to support the policies of the Administration that it serves, so it is the duty of the civil servants in Scotland to advise on the policies of the Scottish Executive?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I entirely agree with that. It is important that the Civil Service working for the Scottish Government commands the confidence of Scottish Ministers of the day, regardless of their political complexion, just as it is for civil servants in Whitehall working for the UK Government.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, I recall being given a wigging by the noble Lord, Lord Butler, when he was Cabinet Secretary and I was Secretary of State for Scotland, for issuing an official press release from the Scottish Office in which I used the term “tartan tax”. Although my Permanent Secretary approved it, the then Cabinet Secretary told me that it was inappropriate for a Scottish Office press release to contain something that might be politically contentious. I accepted that advice: he was quite right and I was in the wrong. So what on earth is going on when the Permanent Secretary for the Scottish Executive circulates what is described as an internal blog—a newsletter—to civil servants in the Scottish Office, which, among other things, advised going to see a play about an army of occupation in 11th-century Scotland which he said,

“does genuinely speak to our present condition as a nation”?

What on earth are this Government doing in standing aside? Surely it is the absolute duty of the Cabinet Secretary to maintain the impartiality of the Civil Service, which is a centrepiece of our constitution.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the noble Lord will recall that on an earlier occasion the SNP strongly recommended that the population of Scotland go and see that dreadful film “Braveheart”, one of the most historically inaccurate films that I am aware of.

[Lord McFall of Alcluith]

My Lords, the Minister says that he should not criticise civil servants’ actions or behaviour. Why is that the case when the Permanent Secretary crosses a line that he should not? Will the Minister ensure that the Cabinet Secretary writes a letter to him, which is then placed in the House of Commons Library so that we can ensure that the proper constitutional arrangements are maintained in this country?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I have already said that the Cabinet Secretary will write a letter in response to the three opposition leaders in Scotland. As the noble Lord knows well from the press, the Cabinet Secretary has already visited Edinburgh and a copy of the letter to those opposition leaders will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

[Lord Stephen]

My Lords, I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for raising this important and controversial issue. Is the Minister aware that most people in Scotland would far rather that senior civil servants, particularly such highly paid ones, spent their time improving the education system, health service and transport networks in Scotland, than pandering to the party political objectives of our First Minister? This is a serious issue. The core issue should not be the independence of Scotland but the independence, neutrality and objectivity of our civil service. When that is struck at, as has clearly happened in this instance, it is very worrying not just for Scotland but for all parts of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I hesitate to get too embroiled in current political arguments in Scotland. The coalition Government do not agree with the SNP Administration on Scotland’s future but they are an elected Administration with a policy programme that their Ministers wish to pursue. In delivering that programme for Ministers, all civil servants must comply with the appropriate ministerial code.

[Lord Soley]

Does the Minister accept that there is a need for a policy on the United Kingdom? Many of us in this House are concerned that no one is speaking up for the advantages of keeping the United Kingdom united. If we are not careful, the arguments for splintering, dividing and breaking away will get very strong. The Government need a policy that advances the arguments in favour of keeping the United Kingdom united. Let us put our heads above the parapet and defend it.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I entirely agree with that. This Question, however, was about the division between what is political and what is administrative; what it is appropriate for the Civil Service to do and what it is appropriate for politicians to do. I am a strong supporter of the union myself, although I am not a unionist fundamentalist, as the Scottish newspapers are apparently alleging some are. We are finding a new balance between the devolved Administrations and the London Administration. It is very important that we all engage in the active debate on what that balance should be, but that is a political activity.

[Lord Selkirk of Douglas]

Would the Minister accept the principle that it is extremely desirable that civil servants should remain impartial, especially in the context of a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should or should not remain in existence? Is it not extremely important that individual civil servants should be like Caesar’s wife—above suspicion?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I am never sure about Caesar’s wife. One of the things I have learned in government is that special advisers—political advisers—are a very useful way of maintaining the distinction between what is political and what is impartial Civil Service advice. That is a distinction that I think everyone here—and, I hope, everyone in Edinburgh—wishes to maintain.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

This is asking the wrong question. The question is not whether there should or should not be a political debate. We are all agreed on that. The problem is that of civil servants entering that political debate. That should not happen, ever. The Minister should make that absolutely clear.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I entirely agree with that. Discussions are under way to ensure that the Civil Service remains impartial.

Social Enterprise

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 6th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the immensely valuable and expert contributions to this debate, including the speech we have just had from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, who has reminded us that there is a great deal of continuity between what this Government are determined to do and what their predecessor was determined to do and in the obstacles faced by the last Government and this Government.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, for the debate and remind her that I was happy to show her around Saltaire last summer. I often think that Saltaire is in many ways an easy and ideal community, not only because is it a very beautiful village in which the Guardian outsells every other newspaper, and partly for that reason atypical, but because it is full of self-motivated people interested in public service naturally taking part in local activities. I only wish that was common across the whole country. Part of the problem that we face, in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, is that we do not have, across the entire country, the same level of motivation or willingness to participate in local public community life that we want to generate. That is part of what this Government are now attempting to do.

We support social enterprises because these are now integral to a more active, fairer and more prosperous society. We see social enterprises as ways of supporting citizens in communities to take more power into their hands and to build what the Prime Minister calls the big society—a more engaged and less passive society. Social enterprises are also an important part of a business community that contributes to our economic prosperity. I take the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, about how one defines the extent of this large and rather amorphous area, but the estimate that the social enterprises employ 800,000 people and generate 1.5 per cent of GDP is a fair rough estimate that suggests, as we expand this sector, how very useful it can be.

We are supporting social enterprises as far as we can across the whole of government, from pushing through mainstream reforms to recognising the potential of social enterprises, by making it easier to start up and run social enterprises by leveraging resources, by increasing the opportunities and support to help social enterprises grow and by promoting social enterprises in the public sector and beyond. We all recognise how large a task this is and we also recognise how diverse a sector we are talking about.

Some of us have been talking about community assets—local shops, pubs, community halls and grounds. I can think of at least two Members in this Chamber whom I know well who are involved in the setting up and management of community shops. I am very sorry that the noble Lords, Lord Morris of Handsworth and Lord Jay of Ewelme, are not here to take part in this debate today. I have enjoyed talking with them about how they have got involved in regenerating that sort of local community asset. We are also talking more about community interest companies and non-profit organisations which are providing employment and socially valued services. I am familiar with the Cellar project in Shipley, which helps to provide a route back to employment for people who have suffered mental health problems and, in the process, generates a certain amount of income for itself and gives people confidence back in their ability to work.

We are also talking about mutual providers of public services. I have spent some time during the past year with an excellent charity in Yorkshire, Together Women, which has been dealing with first-time women offenders and has had enormous success in reducing the rate of reoffending among women. However, it is dependent on grants from central government and has not yet been able to move, because central government is not doing it yet, into the social interest bonds where it can say, “We are saving you money, so let’s have a different sort of contract from being dependent on central government grants”

We recognise the enormous obstacles that we are facing. Many of our citizens are still very passive. They talk about their rights; they expect services to be provided; but they do not understand that they need to take a much larger part in providing those services among themselves—sometimes preferring to complain rather than to share public responsibility. The government documents that I have been reading as I have read myself into my new responsibilities talk a great deal about encouraging a widening of neighbourhood councils. I am conscious that neighbourhood councils are not easy to set up in some of our cities and in a number of our smaller towns. Regenerating the self-confidence and self reliance of local communities is itself a long-term project. The previous Government did some work in that area; we are continuing it. It is a long-term task.

We are talking about a wider attitude change towards public life, public responsibilities and public engagement in self-government at the local level. Having said that, we are also talking about a broader attitude change. Central government, as a number of people have remarked, often resists the idea that you can really trust local people to run things in their own way. The national media lumps the term postcode lottery on anything that appears a little odd, a little more diverse. Business, especially in the financial sector, should not simply be thinking about its responsibilities to shareholders on a quarterly and annual basis. They should also be thinking about people in local authorities and citizens.

The noble Lord, Lord Wei, and others, have talked about the problems of commissioning. The assumptions underlying commissioning showed that there are real problems with people in central government not yet having thought through what sort of different approach we need.

Increasing investment under the big society capital approach is part of how we are attempting to change the way in which the sector is funded and to transform its relationship with government and public services. The Big Society Capital Group will be an independent financial institution that aims to increase investment in social enterprises. It will do that by supporting organisations that invest in the sector and will be a champion for social investment with policy-makers, investors and stakeholders in the sector and the public at large.

Of course, this is not the ideal time or circumstance in which to encourage new enterprises to grow, so provision of diverse sources of funding is extremely important to all of us. The national survey of charities and social enterprises last year showed that just over one-third of those charities and social enterprises surveyed received some form of funding from central government. So this is not a universal problem for the sector. Community foundations have been mentioned and other sources of funding are also important. Too much dependence on the state and on the central budget has not been good for the voluntary sector. Our aim is to reduce that over the long term, to move towards local contracts and contracts for services provided, and as far as possible, to foster self-generating and self-funding activities where appropriate.

We thoroughly agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft, that business is generally a force for good, but there are issues when one is also looking for a culture change. I am conscious that in the pub sector, for example, the role of the pub companies and of some venture capital trusts has been very much to damage the provision of the availability of community assets for local communities and indeed, to attempt to buy up small breweries for their property assets and then close them.

I am happy to say that my pension fund, the University Superannuation Scheme, is actively taking part in seeing how far pensions can provide social enterprise funds. We all need to be thinking about that sort of thing, or those of us who are a little involved in what our pensions should be doing. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, talked about other forms of providing financial social capital, so to speak. We want to encourage closer co-operation between business and social enterprises and between business and the whole voluntary non-profit sector.

The noble Lord, Lord Mawson, talked about the barriers to entry. That again is an area that we need to keep pushing to ensure that central government does not go for the easy aim. Nearly 300 welfare-to-work contracts have been awarded to voluntary sector providers. Of those 300, two have been large-scale contractors, and the other 289 are subcontractors. So we have been making some progress in this regard.

On the question of red tape we are also moving ahead. The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, has made some 17 regulations in his report, some of which we can do something about. The Association of British Insurers has now moved on the question of ensuring that volunteers do not have to pay more for their car insurance if they are using their car to assist in voluntary activities. That is a useful, small but important step forward. The Payments Council has similarly announced that cheques will now be retained for as long as they are needed. There are a number of small things like that that can make a difference to local enterprise activities.

On the social impact bonds experimentation in Peterborough, the Government intend to build on that with four more pilot social impact bonds that aim to help troubled families in four local areas. We are moving forward on that and it is seen as a success. We are therefore pushing forward on a range of different fronts: social investment; the new big society capital enterprise; and other means of support for this very important sector. It will take some time and means a whole range of changes at different levels. The most important level is to get more back down to the local level, to get more local engagement. Social enterprises, the Government believe, are vital in their contribution not only to economic growth and employment but to a fully participating society.

We have made our support for social enterprises a key element of different parts of this Government’s programme and we have a strong package of market and individual enterprise-level policies that we hope will help social enterprises to start up and grow. I finish by again thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, and to say that we all need to keep pushing on this. We all recognise the cultural and mindset obstacles that we face at all levels of government: the economy, business and ordinary people themselves.

House adjourned at 5.44 pm.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Wednesday 5th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made concerning the holding of the 2013 Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Sri Lanka.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in 2009 decided that Sri Lanka should host in 2013. We, together with other Commonwealth members, urge Sri Lanka, as host, to demonstrate its commitment to upholding the Commonwealth values of human rights, good governance and the rule of law. A key part of that will be to address long-standing issues about accountability and reconciliation after the recent conflict. We have made that clear, and we expect to see progress by the end of the year.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I thank the noble Lord for his response. Given the devastating UN report on the final days of the war which has been submitted to the Human Rights Council of the UN, alleging that war crimes were committed, does he accept that the British Government should go to Perth and state clearly that, until those matters are looked into properly and investigated independently, it would be wrong for Sri Lanka to host the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in 2013?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I am aware that the Canadian Prime Minister has been reported as saying that Canada will not go. I have looked carefully at what he said, and he actually said that if there was not an improvement, it was unlikely that he would go. We all have to be concerned that at this stage with doing everything we can to ensure that the process of reconciliation within Sri Lanka continues to move forward.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that it would do a lot of good for the Commonwealth Heads of Government to meet in Sri Lanka, particularly when countries such as Britain and South Africa have a lot to offer when there are serious allegations of excesses during a war? Should we not recommend the peace process in Northern Ireland or the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa as a means of bringing peace to that troubled island?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

We are all aware that some atrocities were committed on both sides during the conflict in Sri Lanka, and it would be extremely good to have an independent investigation of them. The Sri Lankan Government have set up their own investigation into this—I forget its full name—although there are some doubts about how independent it is. We continue to press for a thorough and independent investigation.

Sudan

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Wednesday 5th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they propose to take at the United Nations Security Council on the attacks by Sudanese armed forces on civilians in Blue Nile state.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, we are greatly concerned at the ongoing violence in Blue Nile state since hostilities started on 2 September. We continue to work closely with our international partners to push for an immediate cessation of hostilities, including through the UN Security Council, where we will again underline our concerns tomorrow, 6 October.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, President al-Bashir has launched a full-scale onslaught against the people in the area of Kurmuk using armour, artillery and helicopter gunships, and has refused UN offers of mediation, effectively tearing up the framework agreement on which the Security Council relied in its last resolution of 1997. Does my noble friend not agree that it is therefore necessary for the UN to adopt new measures to prevent this conflict escalating into a cross-border war between the peoples of north and south and to protect the people of the Blue Nile and South Kordofan from incipient genocide?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, there were several questions in there, but I think it would be premature to make such a strong statement on whether this is incipient genocide. We recognise that it has taken a very long time to negotiate an end to the conflict between South Sudan and Sudan and that it has left a number of unresolved conflicts in the border region in Abyei, South Kordofan and Blue Nile. We are extremely concerned that conflict has broken out in a violent form since Sudanese troops deposed the governor of Blue Nile province on 2 September. The noble Lord will be well aware that it is extremely difficult to arrange humanitarian access into the region or, indeed, for outsiders to discover exactly what is going on within the region, but we are doing our best.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there are three UN missions in Sudan and South Sudan, with over 38,000 military and police personnel? The mission of those forces is of course to take the UN’s responsibility to protect into consideration, yet we see aerial bombardment, mass graves, extrajudicial killings and a denial of access to humanitarian aid. Against that background, why, as we have just heard today, do we hear only expressions of concern from the United Nations, the African Union, the EU and the British Government? Will the UK at least call for a monitoring mission charged with securing a ceasefire and ensuring essential humanitarian access for the suffering people of South Kordofan and Blue Nile?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the noble Baroness knows better than I do just how large Sudan is and how complicated it is for others to influence what goes on there. South Sudan, a new state, is one of the least developed states in the world. I am told that it has about 150 kilometres of paved road in a country that is roughly the same size as Nigeria. Therefore, a tremendous amount of assistance needs to be provided for South Sudan. With regard to the UN, the noble Baroness will also be aware that there are severe problems in getting consensus within the Security Council because Russia is not entirely persuaded that the level of intervention she is proposing is something in which the international community should engage.

[Baroness Cox]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that I was in South Sudan last week, when I had the opportunity to meet some of the many thousands of civilians who have had to flee from the continuing offensives by al-Bashir’s regime in Blue Nile, South Kordofan and Abyei? As has already been said, the Sudanese Government are denying access by aid organisations to the people whom they have displaced, and thousands of them have been forced to flee into South Sudan, which is already facing crises and an impending food shortage recognised by the UN. Can the Minister indicate what help Her Majesty’s Government might give to those displaced people, many of whom have already died of hunger?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I am well aware of the situation. A member of my family was working at a food station in South Sudan and saw children dying in front of her, so I am very well aware of what is going on. Apparently some 400,000 people have been displaced from South Kordofan and Blue Nile, some from Blue Nile into South Sudan and some into Ethiopia. It is very difficult to get NGOs into Blue Nile or to get food into Blue Nile. Various agencies—some governmental, some non-governmental and some international—are doing their best. The Government of Sudan have protested that there are cross-border efforts to provide food into the region. This is not an easy situation; we are doing all that we can.

[Lord Chidgey]

Given his earlier remarks, is the Minister aware that Edward Luck and Francis Deng, the UN advisers on genocide prevention, have highlighted the grave concerns about the air attacks made by the Sudanese air force on civilians? Is he also aware that the International Crisis Group reports that conflict in the Blue Nile region could well trigger a renewed civil war—a war in which everyone would be losers, but most particularly the Sudanese people? Given the failure of the international community to resolve these conflict issues in the CPA, does not the United Kingdom have a particular responsibility to take the initiative and mobilise international political intervention as a matter of extreme urgency?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, perhaps I should say that China has a particular responsibility in trying to improve relations between Sudan and South Sudan. Oil has been part of the cause of the long conflict—60 per cent of Sudanese oil is exported to China. We need the assistance of the Chinese in bringing pressure to bear on Khartoum to stop using its forces for what to some looks very much like ethnic conflict, but which is certainly an attempt to impose order on these border regions without consideration for local conflicts and to override local wishes and local governments.

[The Earl of Sandwich]

Does the Minister recall that back in February President al-Bashir and his Ministers were all in favour of the Arab spring, the awakening in north Africa and the necessity of speaking to their opposition parties and bringing them into government where necessary? What has happened to that aspiration and why cannot the Government here have more influence on the process of democracy? Hundreds of thousands of southerners are locked into the north; they have no representation; there is a political party, but he is not talking to them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

The statement that hundreds of thousands of southerners are locked into the north is part of the problem. The borders having been drawn, those who live north of the border are formally Sudanese and not South Sudanese. This is a very large and ethnically diverse country and it needs governing with a great deal more delicacy than a highly authoritarian centralised Government in Khartoum appear to wish for. One should certainly mention, among others who should be playing an active role, the Arab League. Qatar has been very helpful in attempting to provide a structure of negotiation in Darfur, unfortunately not involving all the rebel forces in Darfur. Britain is willing to work with all others—the Ethiopian Government, the Qatari Government, the Arab League, the Chinese as far as we can and the Russians, as far as we can again, to bring all pressures we can to stop this fighting.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, since the UN Security Council is meeting tomorrow in any case to consider the situation in Abyei, could my noble friend ask for this problem to be placed on the agenda so that it can at least consider the evidence that is available, such as the 25,000 refugees who have fled across the border into Ethiopia, the Satellite Sentinel project evidence concerning the movement of large forces on the ground, and the evidence that my noble friend Lady Cox talked about of people fleeing from the Blue Nile into the south?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I in no way underestimate the threats to personal safety across this large region. Members of the APPG for Sudan will know that there have also been stories of fairly large-scale conflict across South Sudan. Cattle-raiding now takes place in South Sudan with AK-47s as part of what is happening. There are some complicated issues, and it is certainly the case that the comprehensive peace agreement might break down. Her Majesty’s Government are well aware of that and we are talking with other Governments within the UN and other international contexts to see what help we can provide.

Armed Forces: Accommodation

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 15th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, there are no plans to end the upgrade programme for service accommodation. However, from 2013, defence budget projections foresee a three-year pause in the upgrade of some 800 service family accommodation properties—SFA, in defence jargon—and some single living accommodation bed spaces, or SLA, each year. A further 3,000 upgraded bed spaces will be developed by 2014 and routine maintenance will continue to be fully funded. This decision reflects the substantial financial challenges we inherited from the MoD budget and our determination to protect front-line operations.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

Is my noble friend not embarrassed that while the Government pledge support for the military covenant, of which a key element is housing, and while the Deputy Prime Minister yesterday pledged fast-tracking for 40 major infrastructure projects to help the construction industry, the MoD makes its unique contribution to joined-up government by going in totally the opposite direction and deferring essential maintenance expenditure? Apart from the obvious disadvantage to service personnel and their families, have we not learnt by now that deferring this sort of expenditure always costs a lot more in the long term?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord has read the excellent speech that the Deputy Prime Minister gave yesterday morning, which I commend to the House. I am sure that many others will want to read it. We are continuing to work within the MoD budget to see whether we can generate additional funds for purposes such as these. We are being deliberately cautious in making forward projections, in contrast to the overoptimistic, even reckless, forward projections of the previous Administration in defence budgeting.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, when the Secretary of State for Defence made announcements in July and September on the welcome procurement of 14 Chinook helicopters, he did not give details of how they were being financed. Maybe we are now beginning to find out, as it now emerges that the housing improvement programme for military personnel, which was put in place by the previous Government, is being halted for three years. When did the Secretary of State publicly announce these specific cuts in the housing improvement programme, and through which channels? Also, what other cuts directly affecting the welfare of Armed Forces personnel are being made that have not been or will not be announced with quite the same vigour as, for example, the Chinook helicopter programme?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I should pay tribute to the previous Administration for their efforts to improve service accommodation. The current situation is that 96 per cent of service accommodation has now been upgraded. We are talking about some 2,000 service family houses and about the projection that, in two years’ time, there will be a pause in further upgrades. I am told by officials that the majority of the 2,000 houses that have not yet been upgraded will either have been disposed of or will have been upgraded by 2013.

[Lord Craig of Radley]

My Lords, does the Minister recall this quotation:

“Poor accommodation is an issue which is creating difficulties in retaining personnel in the armed forces”?

That was Dr Liam Fox as shadow Defence Secretary in 2007. Has the Defence Secretary changed his mind?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I assure the House that the Defence Secretary has not changed his mind, and I repeat: we should pay tribute to the previous Administration’s considerable efforts in recent years to upgrade service accommodation, which are continuing. A further 900 houses have already been upgraded since this Administration took office. We are very conscious of the importance of this programme. Perhaps I should also mention that alongside it, a substantial programme is to be undertaken in the next five years of service accommodation adjustment to accommodate troops who will be returning from Germany. That is not part of this pause.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill]

My Lords, as the Minister will be aware, at every stage of the Armed Forces Bill I have raised the dire state of houses for service personnel. I asked whether the Government could look at the use of housing associations in garrison towns to improve housing earlier than he has indicated. Will he confirm that they will urgently look at this in the light of recent revelations?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

As I have indicated, the MoD recognises the importance of this to service welfare and is doing everything it can to ensure that the programme continues.

[Lord Barnett]

The Minister referred to what the Deputy Prime Minister said about increased expenditure, capital matters and infrastructure. Did the Deputy Prime Minister have the agreement of the Chancellor?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

The DPM, as others do, speaks for the coalition Government as a whole.

[Lord Dannatt]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, whereas one can count what constitutes as savings in the reduction in the housing expenditure programme, you cannot calculate in the same way the cost of the impact on morale? Is he able to tell the House, either now or later, what steps are being taken by the Ministry of Defence to engage with the service families associations to inform them about the changes to the upgrade of their accommodation, bearing in mind that many of the occupants of those houses will probably now be undergoing their second or third tour of duty in Afghanistan?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I have asked that question of officials and I am assured that the service welfare charities and other bodies have been fully consulted on this.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the defence estate represents 1 per cent of the land mass of Britain and is worth over £15 billion. Have the Government looked at disposing of some defence estate assets, a policy that I pursued when I was a Defence Minister? There is a lot of money there that could be used to improve the quality of accommodation for our service men and women.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

I assure the noble Lord that the Government have looked at that, although I suspect that we will not follow the example of the Icelandic Government in considering selling large chunks of the defence estate to Chinese investors.

Armed Forces Bill

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 15th September 2011 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:

Clauses 1 to 14, Schedule 1, Clauses 15 to 26, Schedule 2, Clauses 27 to 29, Schedule 3, Clause 30, Schedules 4 and 5, Clauses 31 to 34.

Motion agreed.

Kosovo

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Thursday 15th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, I agree strongly with those who have said that it is high time to have a debate on Kosovo. We should not neglect the western Balkans. Indeed, one of the occasions on which I have represented Her Majesty’s Government since the election was at a very useful conference on the western Balkans. This is not something which Her Majesty’s Government neglect.

As the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, recognised, there are severe problems in maintaining public awareness. Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, the Arab spring and Libya have driven Kosovo off our television screens and on to, at best, the side columns of page 20 of the quality newspapers. Therefore, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, for opening this debate and maintaining his active interest in the Government’s policy towards Kosovo.

Her Majesty’s Government are a firm supporter of Kosovo’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity. Our objective is to see a stable and prosperous Kosovo making progress towards the EU in line with that of the wider western Balkans region. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, that I, my party and many others actively supported the Blair Government’s intervention in Kosovo. It was absolutely right. I am a little puzzled that he thinks that the United Kingdom is being stand-offish on European defence just after the conclusion of the Franco-British-led operation in Libya. Her Majesty’s Government are not standoffish on European defence. The exchanges that people like myself occasionally have with members of other Governments about whether we are in favour of a “common European army”, which those representatives often think would actually not do anything, are a very long way from the practical co-operation with the French and other Governments which we have been pursuing and will continue to pursue. Whether one should accept that what Europe needs next in European defence is a common operational headquarters that will take a number of staff officers away from different countries and not then actually do anything, or whether the way forward is precisely the sort of practical co-operation that we are pursuing, is a matter to which we will no doubt return on other occasions.

Kosovo has been through a period of bitter relations between its majority and minority communities. Mistreatment of the majority under Milosevic’s regime was followed by conflict in which both sides committed a number of what one has to call atrocities. It takes a long time for those wounds to heal. They have not entirely healed and none of us from the international community has succeeded in helping Kosovo to establish a stable and well functioning state.

However, the past 15 years have seen the establishment of greater stability across the western Balkans. The region nevertheless requires continued active engagement, as the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, reminded us, because the area is still criss-crossed by ethnic, religious, cultural and historical divisions. Many people are still very poor, organised crime and corruption are still big problems, investment is growing slowly and government remains weak. In all those respects Kosovo is no exception.

That is why the Government unequivocally support Kosovo’s ambition to join the EU and NATO. We will support, encourage and, at times, challenge the Kosovo Government on their way to achieving that goal. As one of Kosovo’s near neighbours, Croatia, has so successfully shown, progress towards the EU means stability, security, a long process of improvement in institutional, judicial and civil rights, and economic and commercial opportunity. It also means the full implementation of European values—democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of minorities. Regional co-operation has a crucial role to play in bringing political stability, security and economic development to the region. Not only is that a cornerstone of the European integration process but it can act as a catalyst for reconciliation in the region.

Recent events have shown how vulnerable the progress we have seen in the western Balkans can be to the politics of ethnic division. In July, a Kosovo police officer was killed in northern Kosovo, and Kosovans of both Serb and Albanian ethnicity were injured. These events have shown us more than ever why the EU-facilitated dialogue between Kosovo and Serbia is of crucial importance for the future of both countries and for our collective efforts to realise peace and stability in the western Balkans. Many in this House will know Robert Cooper, the senior official who is leading that dialogue. The noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, can continue to rely on Britain’s unwavering support for her stewardship of this process. With political will on both sides, it will improve the quality of life for the citizens of Kosovo and Serbia. It will support in a more stable manner the progress of both countries towards EU accession.

The dialogue is slowly making progress. On 2 September, Serbia and Kosovo agreed after the dispute that led to the incidents in July to use Kosovo’s customs stamps—thus paving the way for a free flow of trade between Kosovo and Serbia. The EU’s Rule of Law Mission in Kosovo, EULEX, has engaged closely with the Governments of Kosovo and Serbia on how to implement that programme. Tomorrow, 16 September, EULEX will reopen the customs controls that had been disrupted by July’s violence. Kosovo’s customs officers will be at the gates alongside EULEX staff. This is welcome. But even now we are witnessing efforts by some to undermine this progress, to raise the rhetorical ante, and to provoke further tensions between the communities. The UN Security Council will this evening discuss this question in closed session.

Her Majesty's Government urge the Governments of Kosovo and Serbia to act in a mature and responsible manner during this period of unavoidable tension, to avoid engaging in provocative rhetoric and to do everything in their power to moderate responses to the opening of those two conflict-ridden gates.

Kosovo is now, we hope, moving towards a more stable relationship with Serbia. On northern Kosovo, the EU and the international community have repeatedly said that there can be no change to Kosovo's borders. Any attempts to encourage the partition of Kosovo or to reopen status talks would threaten stability in the entire Balkans region and will be strongly resisted. Kosovo's status has been resolved and there can be no turning back. I think that we are all conscious that the current situation in northern Kosovo is unsustainable. The potential for northern Kosovo to become, if you like, another Transnistria—a lawless area which is a base for organised crime—is there. That would be a danger to the entire region.

The noble Lord, Lord Hylton, was unkind to EULEX. EULEX has an indispensable role to play in Kosovo. It has nearly 3,000 staff. Unavoidably there is turnover, but not at too fast a rate. It is playing a role in the judicial development of Kosovo in customs and police. That is a vital contribution to enabling Kosovo to meet EU standards for the rule of law. Tackling organised crime and corruption is essential for the long term and for the long-term stability of the western Balkans as a whole. Furthermore, it has a direct impact on organised crime networks operating across Europe, including within the UK. It is also essential for Kosovo to make progress on its European perspective.

Britain currently provides more than 30 secondees to EULEX. EULEX has an executive mandate to enforce the rule of law in the north, as shown by its recent operations to arrest those individuals suspected of involvement in the burning of Customs Point 1 and the murder of a Kosovo police officer in July. Full co-operation from both Belgrade and Pristina is essential for successful EULEX operations in the north. EULEX is a good example of how all member states, whether or not they have recognised Kosovo's independence, can work together in support of Kosovo's European perspective. Indeed, some states which have not yet recognised Kosovo are providing support for EULEX.

On access to monasteries, the United Kingdom consistently urges the Kosovan Government to fulfil the terms of the comprehensive settlement proposal, including on freedom of religion. We understand that relations between the Serbian monasteries, particularly those in the centre and the south, and their local communities, have improved a great deal, and we will give all support to further means to bring those monasteries closer to their communities. We are sorry that we cannot yet provide the more than verbal support asked for—I note that hint—because the United Kingdom budget, like everything else, has its limits, but we have been giving as much support as we can to all those initiatives. We agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, about the importance of intercommunity dialogue.

The noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, talked about industry and investment. We hope that the mines will soon reopen. We were delighted recently when the British company Coresteel completed the purchase of the Llamkos steel plant.

On the Roma question, we have been working to assist the rehousing project for Roma, Ashkali and Egyptian residents away from the lead-contaminated camp. That is now under way. We are very sorry that it has not yet been completed.

On organ trafficking, as noble Lords will know, US Ambassador Clint Williamson has been appointed as chief prosecutor in charge of the investigation. We welcome his appointment and it is our firm view that EULEX has the mandate, jurisdiction and resources needed to undertake an objective investigation into these allegations.

On EU aid, DfID, as noble Lords will know, is reducing the number of countries to which it provides development aid. Aid will continue to flow to Kosovo through the interdepartmental conflict prevention pool from which half of the UK aid to Kosovo was provided last year.

I am conscious that I have not answered everyone’s points, but I am now out of time. However, I am told that Andy Murray will be Novak Djokovic’s best man at his marriage which will take place in northern Kosovo. I trust that that is regarded as an informal British contribution to intercommunity dialogue and good relations in the western Balkans.

I shall write to noble Lords on a number of other points. I conclude by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, and I look forward to him maintaining the Government’s necessary responses to our policy on Kosovo.

House adjourned at 5.21 pm.

International Renewable Energy Agency (Legal Capacities) Order 2011

Lord Wallace of Saltaire Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2011 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

That the draft order laid before the House on 7 June be approved.

Relevant document: 23rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 7 September.

Motion agreed.