Hospital Car Parking Charges

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am bringing in an eight-minute limit. I call Melanie Onn to continue the debate.

Hormone Pregnancy Tests

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 14th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We have a lot of people to get in and we have very limited time. Can I suggest six-minute speeches?

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I am going to have to drop the time limit to five minutes. If Members keep intervening it will go even lower.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The Front Benchers have up to eight minutes each.

Social Care

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 7th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

The hon. Lady will not be surprised to hear that I did not agree with much of what she said, but I will address some of her points.

Fundamentally, we are setting out, as has long been established, how to get a longer-term, sustainable system for funding our social care. It is absolutely clear from our debates during the past year that, as far as the public are concerned, there is a real lack of understanding about how, at present, the cost of care has to be met by the person who requires it. That is what leads to catastrophic care costs, and the dementia tax that she keeps mentioning, and that is exactly what we are going to tackle by having a cap on the overall cost. In doing so, it is very important to take the public with us and to have a fully informed public debate. It does not matter how far we think we have had such a debate in this place when legislating in the past, because it is quite clear that the public do not understand this. [Interruption.] We are only going to get public consent for a long-term solution if we have a public debate that is handled with maturity, and so far we have not seen very much of that.

The hon. Lady raised the issue of carers, and she suggested that carers’ voices are not being heard in this debate. [Interruption.] I say to her that they very much are being heard. [Interruption.] She can sit there and chunter, or she can listen to the answer to the question. It is entirely up to her, but it is rather a waste of my time in coming to this place if I am just going to be talked over. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I say to the Government Whip that I think I can control the Chamber. I thank him for his help, but I have already told him once that he does not need to worry. [Interruption.] Order. The Whip is well aware that he is testing my patience. I do not need any help.

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

Carers’ voices very much are being heard, and there is no way we can actually tackle the broad picture of how we fund and manage social care need without properly considering the needs of carers. I am very grateful to the 6,500 people who responded to the call for evidence. We have listened to them, and we will consider what they have said in bringing forward the Green Paper. In the meantime, it is very important to pull together exactly what support there is at present and then respond to that, and we will publish our action plan in January.

On working-age adults, the hon. Lady is right to some extent in that there are some common issues in the adult social care system that affect both care for the elderly and care for working-age adults, and those common issues will be considered as part of the Green Paper process. At the same time, however, we are going through massive change in how we deal with people with disabilities. We have the very brave ambition of getting more and more people into work and we are on a journey of getting people with learning disabilities out of long-term residential care and into work in the community, and that brings a separate set of challenges. That work will go on in parallel, but the work on the Green Paper will look at the common issues as well as at the specific area of care for the elderly. I hope that gives her some reassurance. We cannot look at this in a silo—[Interruption.] She says this should all be looked at together, but care for the elderly and care for working-age adults face very distinct challenges, and I do not think we should diminish either constituency by grouping them all together.

On the funding gap, as the hon. Lady is well aware, we have made £9.25 billion available to local authorities to meet their needs over three years. The reality is that if we are to tackle social care in this country so that everyone gets the care they need as they come to the later part of their life, we need to build a longer-term, sustainable funding system. That is why we are taking forward this debate in the Green Paper, and I hope that everyone with an interest in this subject will get involved in that debate, because we can fix this problem in the long term only if we can take the public with us.

Diffuse Intrinsic Pontine Glioma

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 14th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

I would be more than happy to meet Luke and his parents. As well as researching the symptoms and the possible treatments for this disease, we need to understand the experience that families go through, because support for families has to be part and parcel of the treatment. I would be delighted to hear from Luke’s parents to learn from their experiences.

We often look at these things in a very clinical way—it is clinical practice—but we are talking about human beings and we are talking about lives. There is no substitute for bringing home exactly what we are talking about when young children are suffering with such a pernicious disease.

We will build on the studies I have outlined, and we will ensure that the funding provided for research results in better outcomes for those who are suffering, particularly where they are children, but we should remember there is hope. We heard Luke’s story, and we heard that he is at school. He has lived longer than his initial prognosis, so we wish him well. We have much hope.

Here on the Front Bench next to the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), and looking at the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), I am struck by the fact that both have lived through brain tumours and come out the other side. They are an inspiration, and they show that, with the right treatment, people can live despite having a potentially killer disease.

It is my job as a Minister, and it is the job of the Department of Health, to ensure that we leave no stone unturned in making sure that we get the best possible treatment for anyone who suffers from these conditions.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Here’s to Luke.

Question put and agreed to.

Valproate and Foetal Anticonvulsant Syndrome

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Dr Whitford]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

He has finished.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is always a privilege to speak in these debates. I give special mention to the hon. Member for Bury North (James Frith), whose powerful and personal summary of his life has greatly added to the debate. Everyone who heard his contribution will appreciate it and thank him for it. The right hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) set the scene so capably, outlining the case for addressing valproate and foetal anticonvulsant syndrome. I pay tribute to him for the summary at the end of his speech, about which I will speak later, and his eight recommendations. If there are any recommendations to follow, those are they, as everyone in the House will agree. I thank all the other hon. and right hon. Members who have spoken, because their contributions were equally as important, and I also thank those who made interventions. The House shines better whenever we discuss issues on which we can have an input both personally and on behalf of our constituents, and this is one such issue.

There is no greater gift from God than a little baby. I have two wee granddaughters, and I adore them. We maybe do not spend as much time with them and our children as we should, but we try. They are both perfect in my opinion, even if they have some tantrums. As girls, perhaps they have different tantrums to boys—I only had boys, so I do not know. We live on coffee in my office—I suspect everyone else is the same—and I have watched my parliamentary aide as she refused her normal 10 cups of coffee and drank only caffeine-free beverages for nine months during her pregnancies. Indeed, her not drinking coffee was the first indication that she was expecting again. She had had two miscarriages but now had one baby and was expecting her second, so she was going to take every step that she could to ensure that the baby was perfect. She said that the reason for not drinking caffeine was that it can make the baby’s heart beat a little fast. Mothers everywhere will do almost anything to ensure that they protect that little life when they know of its existence. Unfortunately, as this debate has clearly shown, some mothers did not know what was happening, which is why I feel strongly that more research must be done for the mothers who have long-term health problems and do not know how the medication they need may affect their children. Every Member who has spoken has made that point.

I want to throw another point into the equation. People with ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s disease and other conditions who have infusions such as infliximab have to come off them if they want to get pregnant. Some people are made aware of such things, but does everyone know that? I suspect not, but they should. The hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) and others referred to the yellow card scheme, and people need to be made aware of when incidents happen. More needs to be done to ease families’ minds, and that is why I join with colleagues today to ask for more to be done not only in the case of this epilepsy medication, but with more long-term medications in general. We must look beyond this debate and encapsulate what other people are saying.

Sodium valproate is an anti-epileptic drug that is associated with greater risks in pregnancy than other AEDs. Other valproate medicines include valproic acid and valproate semisodium. The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency reports that, although the general risk of foetal abnormality is 2% to 3%, the risk for women taking sodium valproate is around 10%. Did those women know? This debate illustrates that they did not, but they should have known. We have to address the issue now.

The birth defects can include spina bifida and limb, facial and skull malformations. The use of sodium valproate in pregnancy can also affect a child’s development. Many Members, including the hon. Member for Bury North in his powerful speech, have told us exactly what valproate does. Children have delays in learning to walk and talk. The drug can lower intelligence, and affected children have poor speech and language skills compared with children of the same age.

There have unfortunately been many scandals over the years, and my constituents made me aware of the thalidomide scandal, to which I can relate. The hon. Member for Eastleigh (Mims Davies), like me, spoke in yesterday’s Westminster Hall debate on mesh implants: I have been contacted by many affected women, and they did not know what the risks were, either. They have lived with the repercussions for years. One Member mentioned a lady who had to go in three times in six years to have operations before she was cured.

The same is true of Primodos. A Member who is not here told me about his involvement with that issue. There many such scandals and, as other Members have said, we need to bring them all together under one headline.

I am not a doctor, and I have no medical skills, but I can read about symptoms. I have no medical training, but it appears that the risks are significant enough that people should be fully informed of them before they are prescribed such medication. The massive risks in taking these drugs during pregnancy will then be embedded in their minds.

Many of us were supplied with the Epilepsy Action briefing. The statistics are hard to read, but they are very clear. I also thank the Library for the in-depth information it has provided so we can prepare for this debate. The surveys to which hon. Members have referred go back to 1995-96, when a possible problem was first mooted, but no action was taken. The Library briefing says:

“This survey has been repeated in 2017, when it was found that 18% of women taking the epilepsy medicine sodium valproate didn’t know the risks this medicine can pose during pregnancy and 28% of women said that they had not been informed of the risks of this medicine in pregnancy.”

How can it be that lessons have not been learned?

Dr Rhys Thomas, an honorary consultant in epilepsy at the Royal Victoria Infirmary, Newcastle, says:

“This is a dramatic and important survey focusing on a crucial area for women with epilepsy. As a medical community, we clearly could be doing more, and should be doing more. Even if women are being told of the risks, this may be at the wrong time for them—or in the wrong way.”

Sometimes the risks are not explained in a way that people understand, which is wrong. We need to have the conversation, and it has to be repeated. People need to be aware of the risks, and I am not sure that that has happened in the way it should.

The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency figures suggest that up to four in 10 babies are at risk of developing disorders if valproate medicine is taken during pregnancy—that is massive. How can it be ignored? Approximately one in 10 babies is at risk of physical birth defects. Babies affected by sodium valproate can have severe problems that require lifelong care and support. Are we looking at prevention? Are we looking to the future? Are we looking at what the long-term care will be? I suspect not.

It is estimated that 20,000 babies have been affected and 400 babies a year are born to women taking sodium valproate. Epilepsy Action, the Epilepsy Society and Young Epilepsy have surveyed more than 2,000 women with epilepsy, and they found that some women are still not aware of the risks of taking epilepsy medicine in pregnancy. More than a quarter, 28%, of women who have taken an epilepsy drug have not been given information. That would indicate to me that a knowledgeable medical professional should have taken the time to go through the risks of being pregnant with people on the drug. After someone has become pregnant, it may well be too late, so those discussions with the GP are very important. It is not a matter of someone simply stopping a drug when their pregnancy test is positive, as that is not the safe way to do things.

In conclusion, I urge that the eight points are followed, but that we should put in place the compensation fund that everyone in this House wants to see, because that will at least help the families affected to deal with the financial positions they are in.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I call Cat Smith. If she could finish at half past, I would be grateful. In addition, if the wind-ups could be about nine and a half minutes long, that would allow us to bring in Norman Lamb.

Baby Loss Awareness Week

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Will Quince]

My hon. Friend raises a most tragic case, and I know I speak for everybody in the House when we send our condolences to Craig in what must have been a hugely emotional and traumatic experience. My hon. Friend is absolutely right when he says that the point of the national bereavement care pathway is to ensure that care, although consistent, is individualised and patient-centred. That means that when there are unique sets of circumstances—I would say that was a unique set of circumstances—the care package and the bereavement support are unique to match them.

I could never, ever truly express my thanks to the nurses at the Rosemary suite, a specialist bereavement suite at Colchester General Hospital, for the care and support that my wife and I received just three years ago, but I want to ensure that every grieving parent receives the excellent, high-level support that we did. I truly believe that the new national bereavement care pathway is an important step to making that a reality. I am really proud to co-chair the all-party parliamentary group on baby loss and I know that the work that we are doing on a cross-party basis is really important and is changing lives up and down the country.

Finally, I want to send a message to bereaved parents up and down the country that together we will break the silence on baby loss.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I want to make sure we all get equal time on this. Can I suggest that Members speak for up to eight minutes, so that everybody gets equal time? It is a very important day, it is a very emotional debate, and I want to make sure we get fairness right across the Chamber.

NHS Pay

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 13th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Eleanor Smith]

The hon. Gentleman talks about eight years, but Andrew Lansley’s Bill basically destroyed the NHS. That is why we are in this state with the pay cap. I think the hon. Gentleman has forgotten about that.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I would like to allow the hon. Lady to speak early on, and there is nothing wrong with intervening, but we do need short interventions. That would be great. I need to know if Members will be giving way, too. I would like to get all speakers in, but the more interventions we have the less chance there is that I will be able to do that.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

That was a fair intervention, but I completely disagree with the hon. Lady’s point. The deficit had nothing to do with the then Secretary of State for Health. It was not the previous Secretary of State for Health who caused the £160 billion deficit the Government inherited in 2010. Naturally, when running a huge deficit—I think it was something like 12% of GDP—one has to find savings in the budget. The question I pose to Labour Members is, how would they find the extra money? There are only two ways to do that: the Government can either raise the money through taxation, or the Chancellor has to borrow the money. It is very unclear to me what the Labour party proposes to do to increase the pay of public sector workers. No doubt it will have a plan to increase it by 5% or 10%—I do not know by exactly how much it wants to put up public sector pay—but it would have to fund that. I looked at the Labour election manifesto and I think it spent the tax on people earning over £80,000 about 10 times over to fund their various projects and policies.

We cannot go on kidding ourselves and kidding the British people. I very much like the point made by the right hon. Member for North Norfolk about the fact that we have to be serious about how we are going to fund the NHS and social care provision. He described the current model as—his word—unsustainable. I do not share that view—I think we can fund the NHS adequately for the rest of the Parliament—but his general message was right. It does not make any sense for Labour Members to scream, holler and shout about Tory cuts without having a serious proposal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I want to get everyone in, so I shall have to drop the speaking limit to four minutes because of the earlier interventions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I am sorry to say this, but we are going to have to go down to three minutes. I still want to try and get everybody in.

--- Later in debate ---

[Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)]

I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman is aware of how his Government are reducing supply in the national health service, creating demand for private healthcare. People outside the Chamber are fully aware of the Conservative Government’s privatisation agenda and their agenda of selling off buildings—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. It is not normal to intervene just after coming into the Chamber. The fact is that Members who have been here all day are desperate to get in, and I am worried that they may not.

[Simon Hoare]

The hon. Lady has burnished her reselection credentials among the Corbynistas in Momentum as Labour approaches its party conference, and she will be grateful for that.

There is another great elephant that needs to be put out of its misery. It has been perpetuated by socialists down the decades, usually at public meetings and the like, that my party wants to privatise the national health service. Let me say in all candour that the Labour party misses the fundamental fact that the Conservatives have been in government for longer than Labour during the existence of the NHS. We have had majorities in three figures and two figures and we have had minorities, so if it was a deep-rooted Tory secret that we wanted to privatise the NHS, having privatised everything else we would have jolly well done it by now. We have no intention of doing so. I was born in an NHS hospital, as were my three daughters.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Karen Lee (Lincoln) (Lab)]

I am pleased to speak in this Opposition day debate on the public sector pay cap. I was elected as a Labour MP for Lincoln on a fully costed manifesto, and I am proud to be a member of the shadow Treasury team.

Our NHS is chronically understaffed, and there are not enough nurses, doctors, midwives, healthcare support workers, housekeepers, occupational therapists or physios—I could go on and on. Taking a leaf out of Jeremy’s book, I spoke to some of my colleagues. I spoke to Rachel, a senior occupational therapist. OTs focus on how to support and enable people to live well at home. They empower people to be as independent as possible and to access jobs and education. We simply do not have enough OTs in our hospitals, which might be a clue as to why we have such long waiting lists for social care assessments and why we have delayed discharges.

I also spoke to Sue and Maz, who are both healthcare support workers. They wash our patients, take them to the toilet and give them back their dignity when they feel at their lowest ebb, and much, much more. Nurses cannot deliver holistic patient care without the support of a healthcare support worker. Maz told me that her family have had to cut back considerably because her wages have not gone up with the cost of living. She is on leave in a couple of weeks, and she will be working bank shifts to pay for basic household items that she cannot afford out of her regular wages. Her son is at university, and he gets a grant because the family are on a low income despite both Maz and her husband having jobs. Her son’s grant is not enough, so he is working part time alongside his studies. Next year, Maz and her husband will have to help to support him so that he can cut back on the hours he works so that he is able to study more in his final year at uni.

Another healthcare support worker, Sue, with whom I worked for 12 years, told me that she has had to cut back on her spending every single day. After working for the NHS for 20 years, her hourly rate is £1.75 above the current legal minimum wage. Again, both she and her husband have jobs and cannot make ends meet.

Gail is a housekeeper, and she told me that she has to work extra bank shifts just to make ends meet. She has not had a holiday since 2009 and, after paying her bills, she has £20 left each month. She has to do bank shifts if she wants to buy anything for her grandchildren or take them out. Again, she and her husband both have jobs.

Those women, like me, are in their 50s and will not be able to retire until they are 67. The one thing that they all told me is that they love their job. They love the patients and the people they work with, and they would not do anything else. I used to be part of that team, and I know that nurses feel the same. The trouble is that this Government have taken advantage of that hard work and loyalty for far too long, and some people just cannot afford to stay in the NHS. People cannot afford to train without a bursary, let alone stay in the NHS. To quote Gail:

“You can earn more…at Lidl than I get.”

The Government simply must pay all public sector workers what they are worth and what they deserve. They must reinstate bursaries—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. It is so unfortunate that time has run out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Unfortunately, we have time for only one more speaker.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

If we were to take that as an example, I could give many other examples of people on both sides pointing and certainly not being courteous to Members in the way one would expect. The right hon. Lady has a good track record of being able to give a bit out; she ought to be able to take it.

[Peter Dowd]

I say again that I know for a fact that NHS workers take the view that this debate is not just about them but about the public sector generally.In proxy terms, this debate is about all public sector workers. Many of the arguments about the health sector apply to other parts of the public sector as well.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Ashworth]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it not now clear that the House has been unanimous in saying that we should end the pay cap in the NHS and give health workers a fair pay rise? Is it not also clear that the reason the Government did not divide on this motion is that they knew they would lose?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The point of order is well made. It is not for me to judge, but I am sure many people will make a judgment, whatever side of the House they may be on.

[Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You may be aware of press reports that have circulated during the day that the Government are abandoning their manifesto commitment to ensure that private schools take concrete steps to earn their charitable status. Once again, this appears to be an announcement made to the media rather than this House, and with only one sitting day remaining for us to pursue it. One of the ways you may advise us that we can do that is through an urgent question, but given that the Secretary of State should be here for the next debate, would it be helpful to you and the House for her to respond to this point of order, clarifying whether these reports are accurate and whether we can expect a statement to be made?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

What I can say is that Mr Speaker has always made it very clear that any announcements should be made to this House first. That is a clear line that is still held, and nothing has changed from that. I am sure that Ministers will have taken that on board, and the point is well made.

Stem Cell Transplants

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to rise at 6.33 pm. When I secured an Adjournment debate several years ago, I expected it to start at 7 o’clock, but I seem to recall that I got up to speak at 11.15 pm. Those were the days when we could debate European documents until any hour.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

History could well repeat itself.

[Mark Tami]

I hope that it will not do so tonight, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I declare an interest as co-chair of the all-party group on stem cell transplantation. I am very pleased to see my co-chair, the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), in the Chamber; I am sure he will make some comments later. May I also put it on record that my oldest son received a life-saving stem cell transplant a number of years ago?

A stem cell transplant offers a last chance of life to people with a blood cancer or blood disorder. It works because stem cells have an incredible ability to replace damaged blood cells. This remarkable treatment has great potential in our healthcare system. There are different types of stem cell transplant. Some involve people taking back their own cells, while others involve cells from a donor, who can be a relative. Tonight I will talk about stem cell transplants that come from a donor.

About 2,000 people in the UK need such a transplant each year. Two thirds of them will not find a matching donor in their family and will therefore require an unrelated donor. In that regard, I pay tribute to Anthony Nolan trust, which provides patients with matching donors from its stem cell donor register. As well as sourcing transplants, it supports patients and, importantly, their families through the transplant journey and advocates on their behalf. Last year, Anthony Nolan helped to find a match for more than 1,200 people with a blood cancer or blood disorder. I know that the House will join me in thanking the selfless stem cell donors who made that possible, and all those who have joined the stem cell donor register and might donate in the future, of whom there are more than 600,000.

Sadly, one in eight people does not receive the life-saving transplant they need because there is no donor available or a donor cannot be found quickly enough. The odds drop dramatically for patients from a black, Asian or ethnic minority background. Anthony Nolan is working hard not only to build but to diversify its stem cell donor register to ensure that it is able to provide people with the best match. After a lot of work, the situation is much better than it was a number of years ago, but it is still shocking that the chance of finding a donor is so much slimmer for people from a BAME background than for white people. I am sure that the Minister will show her support for efforts in that area.

Despite the fact that stem cell transplants are a well-established treatment, the huge financial pressures on the NHS are causing problems for patients. The situation is most serious for those who need a second stem cell transplant. Sometimes, after having a first transplant, a patient’s blood cancer or blood disorder will come back or relapse. That is devastating news in itself. For about 20 patients a year, the clinician will recommend a second stem cell transplant as their best, and often only, chance of life.

It is worth emphasising that this is not some unknown, experimental treatment that people are simply taking a punt on. We know that one in three patients who receives a second stem cell transplant will reach the milestone of five-year survival, and the results for children are even better, as seven in 10 will reach that milestone. We know that the medical profession recommends the treatment, which is routinely available in other parts of the UK, as well as in countries across Europe and the United States. We also know that the treatment used to be available in England before 2013 and that many people are alive today, leading active lives with their families, because they received a second stem cell transplant.

NHS and Social Care Funding

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Maria Caulfield]

I will not.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. If the hon. Lady wants to give way, she will. Unfortunately, she is not, but Members cannot just stand there—two at once—shouting all the time. It is recognised that if a Member is to give way, they will, but it is up to them.

[Maria Caulfield]

These problems are not new. I have also worked in out-patient settings where A&E targets have had an impact on patients waiting for elective surgery. The sheer determination to meet those targets due to pressure from the Labour Government led to patients with breast cancer having their elective operations cancelled time after time owing to emergency admissions. I had to tell a young mum, whose mastectomy operation following breast cancer had been cancelled three times while her young family were waiting for Christmas, that the only bed we had left was in a post-natal ward, where she woke up and recovered from her operation next to young mums learning to breastfeed. That was in an attempt to meet four-hour targets, so do not tell me that services have reduced. Targets were met, but staff were put under severe pressure not with quality of care but with targets in mind. I make no apologies in making that clear.

I am a supporter of four-hour targets. I was enthusiastic when they were introduced as a way of monitoring performance and improving the service, but they became the absolute king, above everything else. I congratulate the Secretary of State on introducing the consideration of outcomes. What happens to a patient when they are admitted? If they have to stay for four and a half hours to avoid admission or to get full care, what is the problem with that? If they can leave within two hours because they have been adequately treated, fantastic, but we should not be held to account by an arbitrary four-hour rule that has no clinical significance. I support the four-hour rule, but there are other measures that we also need to be aware of and that should be treated with equal status to the four-hour target.

Of course money is important. As our ageing population and our ability to treat more patients grows, we will need more funding for both healthcare and social care. It is worth noting that the trusts either side of my constituency receive the same funding and look after the same types and numbers of people. One is in special measures, is unable to deal with its discharges, has queues and is unable to meet its four-hour targets; the other, five miles along the coast, is rated outstanding, does not have the same pressures or four-hour waits and is able to discharge its patients speedily. There is something about what happens to the money, as well as about how much the money amounts to.

Labour did put huge amounts of money into the NHS over the years, but much of it was squandered—£10 billion on a failed IT project that never saw the light of day, and PFI deals that are still costing the NHS £2 billion a year. How much could be done with that £2 billion?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Allin-Khan]

No, I will not. [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Let us just calm it down. Government Members did not give way before, and let us not get into the habit of shouting at each other. Let us have a nice, sensible debate.

[Dr Allin-Khan]

Many people who go to A&E know that they should not be there. I have had elderly patients saying to me, “I’m so sorry, doctor, for wasting your time.” But what other option are the Government leaving them? That is what we are debating today. The Secretary of State wants an honest conversation—well, let us have it. Let us talk about the impact that the current state of the national health service, which he has been in charge of for four years, is having on accident and emergency departments and throughout hospitals in this country. Let us talk about rock-bottom staff morale. Let us talk about the breakdown of staff marriages, a rise in depression among staff and the fact that waiting times are not the responsibility of patients. They are not to blame.

Rising waiting times are the Secretary of State’s responsibility, yet he blames them on the number of people going to A&E since the target was set. It is his responsibility to lead a national health service that can meet the needs of its people, but again he pleads innocence. He says that no other countries have such stringent targets, suggesting that it is unfair that we do. The meeting of the A&E target in particular, not watered down but in full, is what establishes the NHS as the best health service in the world, and one that we can, should and would be proud of under a Labour Government. After all, emergency departments’ ability to meet the four-hour target is directly related to the health of the NHS itself. It is simple: more people go to A&E when they have no other options available.

Contaminated Blood and Blood Products

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Sir Peter Bottomley]

Does the hon. Lady agree that, whoever administers the scheme, if there are anomalies or cases that come outside the rules, they should be free to tell the Government that they should change them?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

May I interrupt? The winding-up speech is meant to be very brief. I do not mind, but there is a big debate to follow with a lot of speakers, and we are eating into that time.

[Diana Johnson]

I will be very quick. The ongoing payment of £3,500 for people with stage 1 hepatitis C is not a large amount of money for those affected. Under the Scottish model, a £30,000 lump sum payment is made if people have already received the £20,000 lump sum payment. Over the spending period, therefore, I am not sure that the Government can really say that the help that they are providing to people affected with stage 1 hepatitis C is greater than that provided to those in Scotland.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House notes the Government’s recent announcement on the reform of the support schemes for people affected by contaminated blood and blood products; recognises that the contaminated blood scandal was one of the biggest treatment disasters in the history of the NHS; believes that those people affected should have a reasonable standard of living and not just be removed from poverty; is concerned that bereaved partners of people who died with HIV/AIDS and those reliant on regular top-up payments will be worse off; is concerned that the new payments for people infected with Hepatitis C are not commensurate with the pain and suffering caused; notes that people who were infected with other viruses, those who did not reach the chronic stage of Hepatitis C and bereaved parents are not mentioned in this announcement; and calls on the Government to use the funds from the sale of Plasma Resources UK to bring forward revised proposals that are properly funded and which provide appropriate support to all affected people.