Draft Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 (Independent Reporting Commission) Regulations 2016

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2016 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Kris Hopkins)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 (Independent Reporting Commission) Regulations 2016.

It is, as always, a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. The regulations give full effect to the treaty establishing the independent reporting commission. Let me give hon. Members some context and background to the establishment of the IRC, which was one of the commitments agreed in the “Fresh Start” agreement last November.

Hon. Members may recall that the “Fresh Start” agreement reached with political parties in Northern Ireland included agreement on a range of measures on ending paramilitarism and to tackle organised crime. Primary legislation was debated in this House and the other place, and received Royal Assent in May this year. Since then, significant progress has been made, and in Dublin on 13 September, a major step towards establishing the IRC was taken when the UK and Irish Governments signed an international treaty that establishes the IRC and sets out the agreement between the two Governments. The treaty was laid before this House on 22 September, and it will come into force when the necessary legislation by the UK and Irish Governments is completed. The Irish Government intend to pass their legislation by the end of this year, and I expect the IRC to be established early in 2017.

The IRC’s functions are to report on progress towards ending paramilitary activity connected with Northern Ireland, and on the implementation of the relevant measures of the UK Government, the Government of Ireland and the Northern Ireland Executive, including the Executive’s strategy to tackle paramilitary activity. The IRC shall report annually to the UK Government, the Government of Ireland and the Northern Ireland Executive. The UK Government and the Government of Ireland may jointly request reports on further occasions, as required. The IRC may, in its reports, make recommendations to the Northern Ireland Executive in order to inform future “Programme for Government” priorities and commitments through to 2021.

Regulation 2(1) of these regulations requires the IRC to carry out its functions

“in the way which it considers is most appropriate with a view to supporting long term peace and stability in society and stable and inclusive devolved Government in Northern Ireland”,

and the purpose of regulation 2(2) is to ensure that the treaty is given full effect in the UK. That is necessary because the Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 requires the IRC not to act in any way that might prejudicially affect the prevention, investigation or detection of crime, or any actual or prospective legal proceedings. In addition to those requirements, the treaty between the UK Government and the Government of Ireland requires the IRC not to act in a way that might have a prejudicial effect on the prosecution of crime. Regulation 3 requires the Secretary of State to lay the commission’s reports and accounts, and its auditor’s report, before Parliament, and to arrange for them to be published.

It was agreed that the IRC should comprise four commissioners. The UK and Irish Governments will nominate one commissioner each, and the Northern Ireland Executive will nominate two. The IRC will consult a wide range of statutory organisations, agencies, communities and civil society organisations as part of its work to understand the impact of the delivery of the Executive’s action plan, and to measure progress against the strategic objectives.

The IRC will ensure that the Northern Ireland Executive and their delivery partners are doing all that they can to drive out paramilitary activity from local communities. It is vital that communities are able to challenge the control exerted by paramilitary groups, and the new commission’s reports will play an important part in informing how they do that. The IRC will hold a key role in tackling paramilitarism. It will need to establish an accessible method of engagement with stakeholders that will result in a mutual, open dialogue.

The UK Government are committed to playing our part, and have offered £25 million of additional funds, over five years, to support the Northern Ireland Executive’s strategy to end paramilitarism. We have committed a further £3 million to fund the work of the independent reporting commission.

Since my appointment as a Minister in the Northern Ireland Office, I have made a point of getting out and about in Northern Ireland. I have seen the enormous commitment of members of the community and of businesses to working hard to create the new Northern Ireland that I know all Committee members want to see. The draft regulations are a really important instrument for helping to deliver that. The IRC will play a vital part in reporting on the hard work being undertaken to drive out paramilitarism and organised crime. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kris Hopkins]

On a Statutory Instrument Committee, there is a set speech to be made, and there are important words that need to be said, but to speak more informally, may I say what a pleasure it is to work opposite you? I know your huge commitment to peace in Northern Ireland. I am sure that you will robustly challenge me at times and will never compromise your party or objective, but I also know that you will offer us sound advice—

[The Chair]

Order. The Minister is assuming things about me; he means to apply his words to the hon. Member for Ealing North.

[Kris Hopkins]

My warmth towards you is similar, Mr Howarth, but you are right: I was talking directly about the hon. Member for Ealing North.

The hon. Gentleman’s comments about my predecessors are welcome, and I will make sure that both of them know about his kind words. I recognise that my involvement in delivering this SI comes towards the end of the process, but Members from both sides of the House and from both sides of the water have done a huge amount of work to ensure that we got to this point.

The annual reporting will include the audit element. I will be honest: I am not sure whether the reports will be placed in the Library or laid before the House, but I will make sure that we have confirmation on that. As for sensitivities around the appointments, there is a detailed process for making them, and I am happy to explain that in writing. For our part, the Secretary of State has looked at an extensive list of approved commissioners; I would not presume to know what the Irish Government are doing at this moment, but it is important that the shadow Minister understands the process, because he will engage with these people in future. I hope that gives him some clarification.

As far as money is concerned, despite the warmth between us, I am a Conservative, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that the £3 million is not a blank cheque. It will be there, but people will challenge what is spent and how it is spent. I look forward as much as he does to scrutinising the audit figures.

[Stephen Pound]

What about the appointment of the chair of the commission? What does the Minister propose or suggest in that direction?

[Kris Hopkins]

Again, I will write to the hon. Gentleman about appointments to the commission and how appointees are selected, and will give him that information in full.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

2. If he will take steps to work with the Secretary of State for Defence to enhance future funding for the armed forces covenant in Northern Ireland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Kris Hopkins)]

The armed forces covenant is making a real difference in Northern Ireland. Bids for funding from the armed forces covenant fund have been more successful in Northern Ireland than in any other part of the UK. Grants that have been made include £450,000 for Combat Stress to help veterans with mental health support, and £600,000 for the Somme Nursing Home in Belfast to enable it to add more bed spaces for veterans requiring nursing care.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for his response. Northern Ireland is in 10th place among all the regions of the United Kingdom for small grants. Beyond the Battlefield has applied for LIBOR funding for four years running, with a substantial and detailed business plan, but it has not been successful. Does the Minister consider that to be fair? What steps will he take to address that imbalance, and to help groups and bodies such as Beyond the Battlefield to prepare successful applications?

[Kris Hopkins]

I commend the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends for making sure that they have secured the largest proportion of the big pot, although I appreciate that he is now going after the small pot. His point about how to secure the funding is really important, and I am more than willing to sit down with him to talk about how we can support that package.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Will the Minister confirm that he and the Secretary of State have the determination and the will to eliminate all impediments to the full implementation—I do mean the full implementation—of the armed forces covenant in Northern Ireland?

[Kris Hopkins]

I do not think I need to go further to reassure the hon. Lady than to say that I want the best possible services for our veterans. I want the covenant to be implemented in full, and I will do everything I can to ensure that that happens.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

May I add to the comments of the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) and to those of other hon. Friends representing Northern Ireland? When I went there as the Minister with responsibility for veterans, I was, frankly, deeply struck—perhaps only an English person can say this—by the complete lack of drive to ensure that all its local authorities signed up to the military covenant, as local authorities have done across the whole United Kingdom. There is no reason why the covenant should not be in effect in Northern Ireland just as much as it is elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

[Kris Hopkins]

I agree with my right hon. Friend that every council should participate. I get the opportunity to meet lots of councils, and I know that a lot of them are making a massive contribution, but where they are not I reassure her that I will push those councils to do so.

[Danny Kinahan (South Antrim) (UUP)]

May I disagree with the Minister? The armed forces covenant is not working especially well in Northern Ireland. There is £100 million in the LIBOR funds for the whole military covenant. Can some of that be used to make sure that the mechanisms work—that is, that we get a nominee on to the covenant reference group, that the reserve forces and cadets association gets the support it needs to help all soldiers and that the champions get some help?

[Kris Hopkins]

I know that there are opportunities to get on to the committee that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, and I will support him if he wants to do that. I know it is a big issue, and I say this as ex-services personnel myself: I want to make sure that this works, and that every partner—not just councils but health authorities and housing authorities—works together. But this is devolved, and it is up to the Executive to make it work. However, as someone with a history in this area, I will assist him in every way I can to ensure that that is delivered.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

The shadow of the past hangs heavily over the questions that have been asked and there are many unquiet graves still on the island of Ireland. Bearing in mind that it is now 42 years since the atrocity of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings and in view of the vote in the Dáil Éireann, what contact and communication is the Minister having with the Irish Government on this question?

[Kris Hopkins]

I agree that that act 42 years ago was appalling, and offer my sympathies to the families of those who were lost. There is a continuing dialogue with the Irish Government and their Foreign Minister. We will continue that and I am quite happy to have discussions with the hon. Gentleman if he wants further information about the progress we are making.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

4. What recent discussions he has had with the Government of the Republic of Ireland on the UK’s decision to leave the EU.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

9. What recent assessment he has made of the security situation in Northern Ireland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Kris Hopkins)]

The threat from Northern Ireland-related terrorism continues to be “severe”, meaning that an attack is highly likely. Our response to terrorism and paramilitary activity is co-ordinated, effective and fully resourced. This Government’s focus is on keeping people safe, and we will ensure that terrorism never succeeds.

[Sir Henry Bellingham]

Does the Minister agree that it is damaging both to the security situation in Northern Ireland and to the peace process when former members of the armed forces who have been cleared on multiple occasions are now arrested for offences that are alleged to have taken place more than 40 years ago? Will he agree to meet me to discuss the broader issues surrounding the case of Corporal Major Dennis Hutchings?

[Kris Hopkins]

Criminal investigations and prosecutions are a matter for the police and the prosecuting authorities, who act independently of Government and politicians. The Government therefore cannot comment on individual cases. However, I am more than willing to discuss with the hon. Gentleman the broader issue that he has raised.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

In the past two years, 1,631 police officers—a quarter of Northern Ireland’s police force—have been injured or assaulted while on duty. When will the Northern Ireland Office fund and support a new recruitment drive to return the number of officers to the 7,800 required under the Patten settlement?

[Kris Hopkins]

I condemn all those attacks. They are absolutely appalling. This is, however, a devolved matter, and it is for the Northern Ireland Executive to make decisions on recruitment and numbers.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

Does the Minister agree that the best way of tackling paramilitarism and criminality in Northern Ireland is to adopt the community-wide approach that was outlined by the SDLP during last year’s Stormont House talks, rather than throwing money at paramilitary organisations?

[Kris Hopkins]

I understand what the hon. Lady is saying, but I can give her some comfort. We have ensured that £25 million is available specifically to counter paramilitary activity, and we are working with the Executive to deliver that. We look forward to seeing the report in the near future.

Loughinisland Murders

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Kris Hopkins)]

Thank you for your chairmanship and guidance, Sir Roger. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) for bringing this important debate to the House.

What happened in Loughinisland in June 1994 was an act of unspeakable evil for which there is no possible justification. I am sure the whole House would want to pass our heartfelt condolences and sympathies to those affected by this appalling atrocity. I express my personal sympathies to the hon. Lady because of her personal link to this.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I agree wholeheartedly with the Minister’s comments, especially about the way in which the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) introduced the debate. However, does he accept that it would be reasonable for the House to see the definition of the word “collusion” being used by the Police Ombudsman in the report? That would give clarity on what it means, because the word “collusion” can be heavily baggaged.

[Kris Hopkins]

It is not for me to define “collusion” for the Ombudsman. There are many definitions, and we may choose a different one, but we accept fully the findings of the report—I shall comment further on that in a moment.

The Government accept the Police Ombudsman’s report and the Chief Constable’s response. We take any allegations of police misconduct very seriously; where there is evidence of wrongdoing, it must be pursued. Everyone is subject to the rule of law.

This is now a matter for the Police Service of Northern Ireland. The Chief Constable apologised to the families after the Ombudsman’s first report on this atrocity in 2011 and he apologised again on 9 June this year when the second report was released. He has given his reassurance both to the families and to the public that he fully co-operated with the Police Ombudsman’s investigation and that he will co-operate fully with any disciplinary or criminal proceedings against former police officers. It is very clear from the Chief Constable’s response that the Police Service of Northern Ireland remains firmly committed to apprehending those responsible for these murders and has appealed to the community for information. On behalf of the Government, I reiterate that commitment and that appeal.

We have judged our security forces against the highest standards of integrity and professionalism in the past, and we always will. As a Government, we have been more forthcoming than any of our predecessors in accepting where the state has failed to live up to the highest standards and in apologising when it is the right thing to do. Where it is warranted, we will continue to do so.

There have been calls for the UK Government to apologise for what happened on the fateful day of 18 June 1994. Of course the Government deeply regret that the terrorists who committed these vicious attacks have never been brought to justice, and we are sorry for any failings by the police in relation to this case. However, the Ombudsman’s report makes it very clear that those responsible for this despicable attack were the Ulster Volunteer Force terrorist gang who planned it and carried it out, leaving utter devastation in the aftermath and for many years thereafter. The report also categorically states that the police had no prior knowledge of the attack that would have enabled them to prevent it.

The Government will never seek to defend the security forces by defending the indefensible.

[Ms Ritchie]

Will the Minister comment on the fact that the Police Ombudsman’s report refers to a lack of resources invested in investigating the UVF unit operating in that area of South Down, which had resulted in prior murders of people who lived in the locality? There is a feeling that if more rigour had been applied to that investigation before Loughinisland, maybe Loughinisland would not have happened.

[Kris Hopkins]

As I have already said, the Government accept the findings of the report and so does the Chief Constable. What is important now is that we show compassion to the families and those who have lost, and that we pursue the individuals who carried out this atrocity. I am confident that the Chief Constable will continue to do that.

The majority of those who served in the security forces during the troubles did so with great bravery and exemplary professionalism. We owe them a huge debt of gratitude for what they did to uphold the rule of law and ensure that the future of Northern Ireland could only ever be determined by democracy and consent.

The report highlights the need to establish the legacy bodies set out in the Stormont House agreement. We all know that legacy issues in Northern Ireland have a continuing capacity to disrupt the political process and the economic stability of the people of Northern Ireland, and the current structures for dealing with these cases are not working as they should. We know for a fact, through many discussions with victims’ groups, that the current structures do not work for victims and survivors of horrendous atrocities such as that in Loughinisland 22 years ago.

The Government remain committed to establishing the legacy bodies set out in the Stormont House agreement: the historical investigations unit, the independent commission on information retrieval, the implementation and reconciliation group and the oral history archive. It is our view that they offer the best way forward for us to achieve better outcomes for victims, survivors and the people who suffered as a result of the troubles. We share the widespread disappointment that the “Fresh Start” talks last year were unable to deliver the new structures, but today I reaffirm the Government’s determination and commitment to do all we can to remedy that.

[Mark Durkan]

The Minister knows that one of the crux difficulties in dealing with legacy issues in the context of Stormont House was the insistence of the then Secretary of State on national security matters, which of course involve putting a primary emphasis on the protection of informants and others. Surely the Ombudsman’s report shows that it was a fatal flaw in the culture of policing and security control for so many years that primacy was given to protecting those people rather than protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty.

[Kris Hopkins]

I reiterate what I said before: we accept the full findings of the report.

We will continue to work with victims’ groups, with the Northern Ireland parties and with the Irish Government to seek a way forward. The hon. Member for Foyle (Marl Durkan ) talked about tone; I reassure him that wherever I can work with Members of Parliament for Northern Ireland to try to bridge some of the issues that they face as constituency MPs—and that many other MPs throughout the UK do not—my door is always open. I hope we can have a really positive relationship in the months and years to come.

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Before I put the Question, I place on record, as a courtesy, the fact that the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman, the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound), is present. The arcane rules relating to half-hour debates have precluded him from speaking, but it is important that it is recognised that he has been here and heard the remarks.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

4. What recent assessment he has made of the effect on trade of the security situation in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Kris Hopkins)]

May I begin by recognising the enormous contribution of my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace)? I wish him well in his new role. I am determined to build on the progress this Government have made in delivering peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland. This Government have already taken bold steps to back businesses across the UK, including reducing corporation tax and bringing the Exporting is GREAT campaign to Northern Ireland.

[Ian Paisley]

I, too, welcome the Minister to the Dispatch Box—he was an excellent member of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. On trade and crime, he will know that there has been a hangover of paramilitary crime affecting trade along the border. There has been a complete delay in dealing with fuel fraud. Will he agree to meet me and the hon. Members for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) and for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey), and to bring along Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs officials to boot, to allow us to discuss this issue and resolve it once and for all?

[Kris Hopkins]

I would be absolutely delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman and other Members from both sides of the House. May I just put on record my respect for the fact that he has managed to secure a £5 million trust for local employers? [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are discussing very serious matters, including the security of Northern Ireland, to which exchange the hon. Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson), who has a related question, might wish to contribute now.

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

10. Following the recent threat increase, will my hon. Friend assure the House that he remains absolutely committed to ensuring that our security agencies, police and others have the equipment to deal with any threats they might face?

[Kris Hopkins]

I reassure my hon. Friend that this Government have already increased PSNI funding by £160 million, with £25 million specifically to address paramilitary activity.

[Tom Elliott (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) (UUP)]

6. What the Government’s plans are for the future of electoral offices in Northern Ireland.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Kris Hopkins)]

The Government want to make sure that Northern Ireland voters can benefit from the introduction of digital registration. This new technology also provides an opportunity for the chief electoral officer to examine how electoral services can be delivered more effectively.

[Tom Elliott]

I, too, welcome the Minister and the Secretary of State to their place and thank the former team. Does the Minister accept that there may be some difficulties with online registration that are particular to Northern Ireland and not to other parts of the United Kingdom?

[Kris Hopkins]

The system has been working in the rest of the United Kingdom since 2014. A full public consultation on the reform proposals and models will start this autumn, and I hope the hon. Gentleman will make a full contribution to the process.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

13. What consideration has been given to adopting the cross of St Patrick as a unity flag for all communities representing Northern Ireland?

[Kris Hopkins]

The issue of flags in Northern Ireland is sensitive and complex. Any change in existing arrangements would require cross-community support. The Stormont House agreement included a commitment to a commission on flags, identity, culture and tradition, and that was established in June.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

During the consultation process on electoral services, will both the Minister and the Electoral Office ensure that accessibility is a top priority, so that local people outside Belfast can have access through their local electoral offices for registration and photographic ID purposes?

[Kris Hopkins]

The key thing to say about the issue of digital registration is that it is not replacing the old system. The existing system will stay in place and there is an opportunity to contribute on the issues relating to rural communities in particular, which I know many Members from Northern Ireland are concerned about.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Fabian Hamilton. Where is the fella? He is not here.

Northern Ireland

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question. However one chooses to label these attacks, whether one calls them terrorism or criminal activities, they are utterly unacceptable. There is a technical definition of national security, but whether or not one applies that in this case, it is unacceptable for these attacks and threats to take place.

With reference to the Prime Minister and the Justice Minister, as Northern Ireland Secretary I remain happy to meet the Justice Minister whenever he would like, and I am happy to pass on again his request to the Prime Minister for a direct meeting with him. I have every sympathy with the hon. Lady’s call for generous leadership. Again, the successes of the past 20 years demonstrate that generous leadership and being prepared to compromise can lead to tremendous benefits right across the community, and I have every confidence that the political leadership in Northern Ireland is capable of that form of generous leadership on flags, as it has been on so many other issues.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

May I reiterate my support and admiration for the brave men and women of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, and condemn the mindless thugs who are betraying the name of Unionism, which I support? Does the Secretary of State agree that every brick and petrol bomb that is thrown damages inward investment, job creation and tourism in Northern Ireland?

[Mrs Villiers]

Yes, I agree that significant economic damage is being done as a result of these riots, which is another reason why it is urgent that they cease.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

We must recognise that the Government put £45 billion into the Royal Bank of Scotland on behalf of the country. That is £2,500 for every working family in the country. The most important thing is that we get that money back. We need RBS to return to health. It has to deal with its bad loans and the trouble that it got into, and it has to grow the rest of its business. We will then be in a position to return to people the money that they put into the bank. That is what matters most.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

May I offer my sympathies to the families and friends of the six soldiers who have been killed, five of whom served in 3rd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment, the Duke of Wellington’s, with which I had the privilege to serve? I recognise and support the vital role that our troops are endeavouring to undertake, but we need to bring them back in 2015. I ask the Prime Minister to ensure that we do everything that we can to support the families of those who have been lost.

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend speaks with considerable experience, because of his service in our armed forces. It is important that we have the date for our troops coming home from Afghanistan, which I set. We will not be there in a combat role and will not be there in anything like the current numbers by the end of 2014. It is also important to ensure that, between now and then, our troops have all the equipment that they need to make them as safe as possible. I pay tribute to the previous Government, who started putting extra money into vehicles in 2006. Since then, we have spent about £2 billion on better-protected vehicles and an additional £160 million on counter-IED equipment. He is right that we need to do more for the families of our armed forces at home. That is what the military covenant process and the Cabinet Committee, which I chaired for the first meeting, are all about.

Pat Finucane

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I pay tribute, again, to his distinguished work in Northern Ireland, but I would remind him of the position that I just described to one of his successors, the right hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Mr Woodward). We were facing an impasse. We fully respected what he had done and the reasons for introducing the 2005 Act, following the Saville inquiry, which was getting out of control—everyone understood that. We understood the commitment he made at Weston Park, but this was going nowhere. It is no good having a Mexican stand-off, with things going nowhere, because we want to move Northern Ireland on. This is an extraordinarily fraught and difficult case. I think that we have been very bold and courageous in making this apology—a full, frank apology to the family, given face to face with the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in Downing street—and then working with the family to establish the truth.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement and the leadership offered by the Prime Minister, as well as his bold apology. I think it is absolutely right that we do that. I offer my sympathies to the Finucane family, as I do to the 3,500 other families out there who lost loved ones in a tragic period of the history of these islands. The truth is important, but I have a school in Ilkley that needs to be rebuilt, and after the obscene amount of money that has been spent on previous inquiries, I say to the Secretary of State that I would rather see taxpayers’ money spent there than on filling the pockets of lawyers in Belfast. Does he agree with me?

Rosemary Nelson Inquiry Report

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

I agree with the content of the Secretary of State’s statement, and I support his tone—it was extremely appropriate that he spoke in such a way. I do not excuse in any way anybody who did a wrong thing, but I served with members of the RUC—they were extremely brave individuals in their commitment to the service, both on and off duty. Does he agree that the PSNI is a very different creature to the policing arrangements of 1999, and that we, and people on both sides of the community, should take comfort in that?

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I paid full tribute to the RUC in my statement, but we do the RUC no favours by glossing over any failings. The report makes trenchant criticisms of those failings, but my hon. Friend is right that policing is quite different today. It has a much broader base of support, and is responsible to a locally elected Minister and Policing Board. That is why the report makes no specific recommendations.

Murder of PC Ronan Kerr

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Monday 4th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I wholeheartedly concur with the right hon. Gentleman’s comments. For Mrs Kerr, yesterday afternoon, under those circumstances, on mother’s day, to welcome politicians to her house and to come out after that to make the statement that she made, was a quite remarkable moment. We all owe it to her to do exactly as the right hon. Gentleman says—to rally round together. I encourage everyone to participate, campaign and vote in the coming elections in Northern Ireland, to show that that is the way for Northern Ireland to progress.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

May I offer my condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Constable Ronan Kerr? Will the Secretary of State join me in continuing to support, honour and celebrate the brave men and women of the PSNI, which can today proudly and rightly say that it is drawn from all communities in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Paterson]

I am happy to confirm to my hon. Friend that we now have a police service that is well manned with personnel from right across the community, with strong local support, and one that is endorsed by all the main political parties. That is a major force for good.

Bloody Sunday Inquiry (Report)

Kris Hopkins Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Murphy]

All that took place over a period of 15 years or so. One of the purposes of the Historical Enquiries Team, in which I was involved, was to enable us to satisfy all parts of the community that we were dealing with the past.

Let me repeat that the primary purpose of the Bloody Sunday inquiry was to establish the truth: to find out what had happened, and whether the Army was culpable. The inquiry found that it was culpable. However, another purpose of the inquiry and, indeed, of Judge Cory’s recommendations, was to maintain the process of bringing peace to Northern Ireland. Ensuring that the peace process continues is a noble cause, not an ignoble one, and if it means that we must deal with the past in whatever form, it is right and proper for that to happen.

The fact that 3,500 people have died over 30 years and tens of thousands have been injured in one way or another must be addressed, and the savagery and wickedness experienced by Northern Ireland in those 30 years was not confined to one side. How should that be dealt with? Let me draw the Secretary of State’s attention to two issues. The first is cost. Of course these are difficult times, but, although this may seem a truism, Northern Ireland is a special case. When Senator George Mitchell concluded the Good Friday agreement on Good Friday 1998, he said that it was the beginning, not the end, of a process. He was right. Since then there have been tremendous developments, in which the DUP and other parties in Northern Ireland have played a huge part, but the process will not end overnight. We must have a system that involves spending money, because we must ensure that if the Northern Ireland Executive have to take on certain responsibilities, their funding must be adequate.

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

The right hon. Gentleman said that the Army was an instrument of Government and must therefore be accountable. Individuals who were certainly active historically are now part of Government. Should they not now be accountable for their historical actions?

[Paul Murphy]

My right hon. Friend raised that issue with the Director of Public Prosecutions. If there are indications that those people must be prosecuted, that is not a matter for Government, but for an independent body. My point is that if there are any further developments on dealing with the past, the Northern Ireland Executive should not be asked to pay for it.

My second point is this. The Secretary of State mentioned the Eames-Bradley report. Mr Eames and Mr Bradley know perhaps better than anyone else of what happened in the past in Northern Ireland, and I think it unfortunate that the press dealt with only one recommendation in their report. There were other valuable recommendations on issues such as the legacy commission, the reconciliation forum and the role of the Churches, and the Government ought to consider them.

When I was Secretary of State, I went to South Africa to see whether the process of truth and reconciliation there could be applied to Northern Ireland. I concluded that it could not—that there could not be a one-size-fits-all solution, and that Northern Ireland must decide for itself how to deal with the past. However, I also concluded that if the problem was the absence of consensus, nothing would happen. We could not wait for a consensus, but we must seek one.

The position of the current Secretary of State is very different from mine, and that of my successors, when we had to deal with such matters as housing and education. He is in a position to work with the Executive to deal with the issues that reflect the past. I have no doubt that a consensus can be reached, I have no doubt that we will have to deal with it, and I have no doubt that the Executive must address other huge, pressing issues, such as the problem of schools and of dealing with the impact of the comprehensive spending review on the Northern Ireland budget. Those are vastly important issues which must exercise the minds of my right hon. Friends and others in Northern Ireland, but that does not mean that it is not possible to deal with the past as well.

I believe that we cannot face the future unless we deal with the past. The two must be dealt with in parallel. The issue is how they are dealt with, and how consensus is achieved so that people, whether they are Catholic, Protestant, Unionist or nationalist, republican or loyalist, can ensure that we have a peaceful and a prosperous Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con)]

I reiterate my support for the Prime Minister’s comments and the apology that he made back in June. At the time, I said that it was difficult for me, as an ex-soldier, to hear the words that were said and their context. I watched the television that evening and I was shocked—it had quite an impact on me—by the response from the crowds in Londonderry, the huge relief that they felt and the applause that they gave the Prime Minister for his stance. That reinforced my view that the Prime Minister had made the right decision.

As a former soldier, I was one of the 250,000, but rather than being a gallant officer, I was a private. I have never been to Londonderry, but my views and opinions have been formed by the experiences that I went through. The IRA tried to shoot me on the New Lodge road, and tried to blow me up in a 16-round mortar attack in Bessbrook. That fossilised my view of the organisation.

I stood on a cordon in Newry when the bodies of those who were shot in Gibraltar were brought through from the south, and saw the huge response from the town. In the days following that, Milltown cemetery was attacked by a lunatic throwing grenades and shooting members of the congregation who were trying to bury their loved ones. That had a massive impact on me and my colleagues, as well as on the people and communities there. In the days after that, I was about to go on patrol when I saw what I discovered later to be two young corporals being dragged from their car. Later, I saw a video of them being executed on the ground in Springfield road. That was grossly horrific to watch.

We have talked about soldiers and some of the ways of interpreting what they did. I was out on patrol with a group of colleagues when we came across a Catholic fireman who had been shot in the head, chest and arm. We tried to save his life, but we failed. His only sin was to be a Catholic in a taxi in a Protestant area. We saw it as our job to try to save him; it was not a bolt-on. It was part of our role to try to save that person’s life, and I was saddened that we did not.

Two members of my unit committed suicide while they were over there, and one lad lost his leg. My regiment, and those before and after, served with great honour and courage. I have worked with the Parachute Regiment, which is fantastic. It consists of men of great honour and courage, and goes back a long time. I had the privilege, as leader of the council, of offering the 4th Battalion the freedom of the city of Bradford just six months ago. It is a privilege to be in their presence. What was done on that day was wrong and horrific, and badly damaged its name, but I tell the House it is a good regiment with good people.

I am not sure whether what I have just said offers any comfort to the families who lost loved ones, and the people who were injured on that day, but I am trying to explain the context as I see it. I am sure that as many people as served in the Army saw the Saville report, and had the toe-curling experience as a soldier of hearing the Prime Minister’s words.

Since leaving the Army, I have done a lot of photography, and I taught it at university. Because of my experiences, I have examined a lot of war photography, including Capa’s photograph of D-day, the girl burnt by napalm in Vietnam, and the recent horrific photographs from Iraq of the abuse of prisoners. One that had a huge impact on me is that of Father Daly, a priest in the United Kingdom, begging for safe passage for injured people. What a terrible situation to have in our country.

The damage that was done by Bloody Sunday can be seen in an historical context. I was given a piece of paper when I first went over there. It talked about the Romans invading Britain. We had to understand our place, as we went into Northern Ireland, in the context of those few scraps of paper. Bloody Sunday was hugely damaging, and the responsibility on those individuals who failed is great, when we remember the damage that they did to the populace and to the country.

However, some individuals did try to find a different place. I pay tribute to John Hume, Lord Trimble and former President Clinton, as well as to the combatants who chose a different path. I experienced a sense of disbelief when I saw some of the players coming together to shake hands and try to find a solution. I honestly did not believe some of the imagery that I was seeing, because it was so heart-warming; it was a tremendous place to be. I remember watching people arguing the toss about water rates, and thinking how great it was that they were not trying to kill each other.

Having said all that, and having thought how wonderful it was that such a great effort had been made to find peace, I was at a meeting at the Tory party conference recently with Mr McGuinness and I felt absolute revulsion and anger when he walked into the room. So it is great for politicians it, but, that moment involved a huge journey and a massive leap for me. But as he spieled his spiel, and as the media and the Secretary of State challenged him, I realised that that was the place where we needed to be. That is why those Members should be in this Chamber, where they can be held to account. That is the politics of the future.

In a couple of weeks’ time, we shall be celebrating and commemorating the lives of the individuals who have died. Another event that occurred when I was over there was the bomb at Enniskillen. I do not know how Gordon Wilson found the strength to say that he would not hold a grudge, and that he did not want to use “dirty” words at a time like that. That was tremendous. In answer to my own question about whether we should drag people back into inquiries, I believe that we need to grasp the moment now. The ground has been set for political debates about water rates, and this is not the moment to go back over all the issues of the 3,000-plus, including the 1,000-plus soldiers, who were killed, and of the brutal events that took place. We need to argue about water rates. We need to hold the Government to account about the comprehensive spending review. Those are the things that need to be sorted now. Northern Ireland needs to be a normal place, and that is the future that I want to see.