Pensions and Social Security

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank my hon. Friend for that point. I was about to say that many of the jobs are exactly of that nature, which ratchets up the support payments. People on low earnings or who work very part-time hours are the very people who depend on housing benefit and, in many cases, tax credits. When we look at that situation, we see that the wonderful recovery in jobs is really not so wonderful. Indeed, some of the jobs are so part-time as to be almost invisible.

Life is very difficult for people who work in those kinds of jobs. They often have to start work at very difficult hours. A constituent who came to see me was desperate to work, and she found a job, but it meant that she had to get from Edinburgh to Livingston, which is about 20 miles. Without a car, it is quite a long way—it may be 18 miles; my figures might not be quite right. She had to get there for 7 o’clock in the morning. How can someone do that when they do not have a car and public transport is either non-existent or very expensive? That job did not last long, because she could not keep it up.

Another constituent was told by a large department store, for which she had worked for a number of years in a job that fitted with her children’s school hours, that that option was no longer available to her. She now had to work for just 12 hours—she had previously managed to work for 20 hours—or she had to go on a flexible contract so that she could be called in whenever the shop wanted her. That was difficult—in fact, virtually impossible—for her because of things such as child care arrangements. She could not just suddenly come in on a Saturday or come in of an evening. The job had suited her needs, and it had brought a reasonable income that enabled her to support her children. Now she was told, “Well, if you don’t like it, there are plenty of people looking for these jobs and we can fill them very easily. If you do not want the new contract you can simply leave.”

That is the kind of job offer that many people are getting. If, on top of that, tax credits, which have been frozen for the past couple of years, go up by only 1%, and housing benefit payments are limited, those people will indeed suffer.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

Has my hon. Friend made an estimate of the number of people who have to juggle two, three or more part-time jobs? How many of the new posts that have been created are occupied by just one person who is trying to juggle different jobs and doing just a few hours in each one every day?

[Sheila Gilmore]

That is a good question. We need to know far more detail about those figures. We know from the people who come to see us, the people we talk to and the people we meet when we go around our constituencies exactly what is happening: if people can get more than one part-time job they will do so in order to make up their income, but it can be difficult for them.

That is the backdrop to these provisions. That is the bigger picture that the public will want to understand, as they realise that this will actually happen over the next few years. It has begun to hit many people hard, and it can only get worse. We must make it clear that if we are to be part of a society that is truly one in which we are all in it together, we should not go down that road.

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[Mr Brown]

Exactly, and that is the difficulty we face this evening.

I have raised the point about the 1% freeze on benefits before. I have asked Ministers in both the Department for Work and Pensions and the Treasury what kind of impact assessment has been done and what consultation there has been between the two sets of Ministers, but I have never had a straight answer. What we will be witnessing over the three-year period, according to the Government’s figures, is almost £6 billion being saved or, as I would put it, £6 billion being taken away from the lowest income households. The Minister must surely know that that £6 billion would have been spent in the local economy.

When I first arrived in this House, in 1997, the then Labour Government decided to introduce a national minimum wage, which effectively put money into people’s pockets. The impact assessment at the time was based on £1 million being given to the poorest households, which clearly would then be spent in the local economy. For every £1 million spent in the local economy, 40 jobs were created.

If the Minister is able to do his work—I think that he is an intelligent man—he will see that taking £6 billion out of local economies over three years will have a detrimental impact. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) is telling me that yet another high street outlet is on the brink this evening, so more jobs might go.

[Julie Hilling]

Does my hon. Friend agree with the International Monetary Fund, which states that the cuts to welfare benefits will cost the UK economy £40 billion, almost double the cuts to welfare?

[Mr Brown]

I do not know whether it will be £40 billion, because I have not seen the figures, but I trust what my hon. Friend says. There is no doubt that it will have a severe and adverse impact on the economy.

I come now to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington made about families and children. If we do not give the next generation the right start in life when they are children, we give them the wrong start. I must say to the Minister that even now we see across our country the struggle that my party had in government to undo some of the damage from the previous 18 years. The damage can be done in a short period, but it takes an awful lot longer to recover from. We struggled in government to try to get things back on track. What the Minister is doing today is not what he said he would do when he was in opposition.

When he leaves this place tonight, I implore the Minister to pick up a copy of a documentary called “Poor Kids”. I have seen it a couple of times and it is heart-breaking, to say the least. As a father and grandfather, I say to the Minister that what the documentary shows is not beyond belief, because it does happen. It happens in many towns and cities across this country where families are living on basically nothing. Children as young as eight, nine or 10 years old have become worldly wise: they know about not having money and what debt is, and they understand how trying to put a meal on the table can result in other elements of poverty. That is not how children in this country should be spending their early years. They survive on hand-me-down clothes, not necessarily from older brothers or sisters but from other family members. Despite what many people think, charity shops on our high streets are an absolute godsend for such families, because sometimes they are the only way children can be clothed.

Parents sometimes sacrifice their own meals to feed their children. Perhaps I have led a sheltered life, but it was only when it was drawn to my attention that some mothers will prepare a meal for their children and tell them, “I’ll get something to eat later,” that I realised—I take no pleasure in saying this—that I witnessed that as a child in my household. I was part of a family of five and I know only too well now—perhaps I was naive when I was younger—that that was going on in my household. I witnessed my mother having nothing to eat while the rest of the family sat waiting for my father to come home from work.

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[Mr Brown]

My hon. Friend is correct. I worry about some of the figures that the Government are working with in terms of savings. Only time will tell, two or three years down the road, whether all this has been worth it.

We need to give children a proper start in life. We really do. As my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) said, we are already witnessing difficult enough times for many families.

[Julie Hilling]

What does my hon. Friend have to say about the fact that we are the seventh richest country in the world and yet last year 200,000 people had to go to food banks? In that context, what does he think we should be saying to the Government?

[Mr Brown]

My hon. Friend makes the same point as my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington. We are the seventh richest nation but this is how we are treating families—treating children—in this country. Two food banks are about to start in my constituency. I hate the idea, but I recognise that it is the only way some families are going to survive. My wife volunteers and works alongside the local church providing meals for homeless families. In reality, there are very few homeless families, but there are families who are in great need of a hot meal a couple of times a week. It is right that she does that, and I suspect that if at some stage I ever retire from this place she will have me in there helping her—because it is going to that long before we throw off what we are witnessing at the moment.

I mentioned to the Minister earlier the case of the lady who has lost her disability living allowance and I told him what her GP said to me. The GP also said that his practice is now coming under real pressure because aspects of the welfare reform are starting to bite. He has patients with fluctuating conditions, mental health problems and stress-related illnesses that are leading them back in to see him. People are going back to their GPs to look for help, support, guidance, and even help with completing forms. Some GP practices are beginning to creak at the seams in having to deal with people they should not really be seeing—people whose conditions will never, in all honesty, get any better medically. It is a real worry when the professional people in our communities are beginning to see, to recognise and to understand that life is really going to get tough for some.

Let me finish by saying to the Minister that if he has not watched the documentary “Poor Kids”, I suggest that he and many others do so, because it is quite frankly heartbreaking. This is not how people should be living in the seventh richest country in the world, and things are only going to get tougher for these families.

Housing Benefit Entitlement

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Westminster Hall

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) on securing this most important debate. I, for one, am not surprised to see the Government Benches empty, because people cannot defend the indefensible.

I want to speak on behalf of the 2,400 tenants of Bolton at Home and more than 4,500 tenants of Wigan and Leigh Housing who will face unaffordable bills because the Government have decided that the poor should pay the price of the wrongs of the rich. The policy demonstrates an absolute lack of understanding of the nature of social housing and communities.

The majority of social housing in the north-west is three-bedroom, and families with two children have rightly been allocated three-bedroom houses so that each child can have their own room, and also, because that is the available housing stock. Please remember that many of those families have one or both parents in work, in low-paid jobs. Housing benefit is an in-work benefit.

What is going to happen now to constituents with a boy and a girl? They are currently nicely housed in a three-bedroom house. Is it the Minister’s expectation that they would move into a two-bedroom house until one of the children reaches the age of 10, when they would have to move into a three-bedroom house? What happens when one of the children moves out? Are they then expected to move back into a two-bedroom house, and then into a one-bedroom house when both the children move out? That is even if all the housing stock is available. Just imagine the monetary costs—how could people on low wages or benefits afford new carpets and curtains each time they have to move house, or does the Minister expect them to have bare floorboards and newspaper at the windows? What about the children’s schooling? Will they have to keep moving schools, or will the family have to find additional money for transport to school? Fundamentally, what about the community? Social housing is not only somewhere that you sleep; it is where you live and become part of a community—a community that will be fractured by this ridiculous, ignorant policy. The policy will also have a perverse effect. Already in Bolton, groups of three young men are applying for three-bedroom family houses, so that they can each claim shared-room rate.

Hon. Members have talked about many other aspects of this policy, so I will finish by talking about Isobel, who came to see me about her situation—I have changed her name. Isobel lives in a three-bedroom house. She has a daughter who has just moved out, into a fairly insecure relationship, and she has a 17-year old son with Down’s syndrome. Isobel is a full-time carer and she herself understandably suffers from stress and depression. Isobel’s son—I shall call him Carl—is severely affected by Down’s syndrome. He has what I can best describe as autism-like symptoms. He cannot cope with change to his routine or environment. He needs everything to be in its place and everything to be done in the same way at the same time every day. Indeed, while Isobel was visiting me in the surgery, she received two phone calls to come home as quickly as possible because Carl was becoming extremely agitated by her absence.

Isobel has told me that Carl could not cope with a move. Moreover, Isobel gets support from her community. Neighbours understand Carl’s behaviour and support her both physically and morally. What is she supposed to do? She cannot work; she cannot move. What is the Minister’s answer to that question? I hope he will not say that she could get a discretionary housing payment. Bolton at Home does not yet know how much it will get, but it has already worked out that it will not have enough money to support everyone in need.

The Government do not seem to understand that social housing is a positive choice for low-paid workers, for carers and for a number of others. It is not something that is transient. It is the home in which someone wants to live their life and to bring up their children until they move into their bungalow or sheltered housing. Surely the Minister cannot continue with this mean, ignorant and, frankly, incompetent policy.

[Hugh Bayley (in the Chair)]

We have made up a minute, so the Front Benchers now have nine and a half minutes each.

Personal Independence Payments

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Westminster Hall

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea. I am very pleased to introduce this short debate about personal independence payments and blind and visually impaired people, because although the Government have made some very welcome improvements to the descriptors in relation to people with sight disabilities, many questions remain, and I am afraid that my speech mainly consists of questions.

The principle of disability living allowance and—one hopes—of PIP is that it goes a little way towards levelling the playing field, enabling disabled people to do the things that non-disabled people take for granted. As my constituent, Alison, told me:

“Many blind and partially sighted people rely on DLA to meet the extra costs they face every day as a result of their sight loss. The help they get from DLA is not a luxury; it means that they can live independently. Without it, they would be unable to do everyday things that people with sight take for granted, like being able to get out to do food shopping, getting to doctor or hospital appointments, being involved in local groups, looking for work; in short, living a life that enables them to do more than just stay at home.”

So my first question to the Minister—it is one that has been raised with me by a number of people—is this: do the Government have any intention of means-testing PIP now or in the future?

The Government state that the receipt of PIP will be based on an assessment of individual need, and the support required as a result of the particular health condition. The new assessment will focus on an individual’s ability to carry out a range of key activities that are necessary to everyday life. But will the assessment be truly based on the needs of an individual or on the “condition” that they have?

We all know that disabilities can affect people in different ways. The first constituent who contacted me about this issue—she did so well over a year ago—is Margaret. Margaret progressively lost her sight over a period of time. Initially, she continued to work and even went to college. She used to take the local bus service, but she found that impossible as she was reliant on drivers seeing her white stick, and slowing down to tell her what number bus they were driving and whether it was the bus she was waiting for. Such experiences became too much for Margaret and she developed agoraphobia, making her unable to work.

Margaret is reliant on the DLA she receives to interact with the outside world and to communicate with her extended family, many of whom live outside her area. She has enhanced audio-visual equipment on her TV and computer, which allows her to send e-mails and enjoy TV programmes. That makes life just a little bit more bearable for her.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for securing a debate on this important subject. Does she agree that PIP assessments must assess adequately the needs of blind and visually impaired people, and that there is a need on the part of Government to recognise properly the extra costs of mobility for people with severe sight impairment?

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[Julie Hilling]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, and I will go on to talk in much more detail about some of the issues that she has raised.

Going back to my constituent, Margaret, she says that without her current rate of DLA she would not be able to afford the TV and internet package that she has, which would make her even more isolated from family, friends and the rest of the world. Her partner and carer, Jim, suffers from serious mobility problems; effectively, they care for one another. They are very worried about the potential effect of PIP, and they are also worried that some bright spark at Atos or the Department for Work and Pensions will actually declare Margaret fit for work.

Let us compare Margaret with John, who has been blind from birth and depends on his DLA to live independently and get to work, or with Michelle, who lost her central vision in 2005 and took a while to get back into employment. Michelle told me that she is registered blind, but apparently she is not blind enough to qualify for higher rate mobility, although she uses a long cane and frequently falls over. There is also Barbara, who had to leave nursing in her early fifties because of deteriorating vision but who then worked part time as a support worker to blind and visually impaired students.

We know that eye conditions can be very different: some rob people of central vision; some block out other parts or make looking at life like looking through lace curtains; and some cause a loss of depth of vision. There are many different ways that vision can be affected. So my question for the Minister is whether PIP will be flexible enough to focus on individual needs.

Peter also contacted me to raise concerns that blind and partially sighted people who cope with their condition may be penalised and lose benefits because they have made the effort to cope and have been able to do so. He is worried that people who have coped in the past will now refuse to cope, so that they can retain benefits. What is the Minister’s view on that?

Let us focus on mobility for a moment. The criteria refers to familiar and unfamiliar routes, stating that an individual who qualifies cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid, or cannot follow the route of a familiar journey. John and others have talked to me about the reality that, for people with severe sight loss, there is no such thing as a “familiar” journey. Let me quote him:

“What is a familiar route? For me there is no such thing as a familiar route. For me, “familiar” is based totally on sound and feel. These constantly change. No route is the same two days running - disruptions are caused by wind, rain, people and traffic and I cannot use sight to check that it is safe or to update my knowledge of the changing environment en-route. Feel, via a long cane, is disrupted by ice, snow, leaves and standing water which disguise important orientation points like kerbs and tactile paving. “Bin day” turns pavements into dangerous, practically impenetrable obstacle courses with heavy randomly placed bins. Despite Highway Code regulations, cars are often parked with impunity well onto the pavement, vans leave ramps down and rear doors flung wide open. These obstacles are silent, invisible to me. With no sight, no auditory warnings, I regularly walk straight into these and have the scars to prove it. There is a limit to the amount of adapting one can do! I am vulnerable when asking strangers for direction. They may be ignorant or undesirable. I have never successfully, independently accessed a supermarket because the act of moving around brings me into contact with all manner of objects and people which are in close proximity. I’m not aware until I have actually hit them. This is neither appropriate nor socially acceptable behaviour and causes me great anxiety. Trying to travel on a bus or a train throws up the challenge of accessing transport information and bus stops, finding the right bus, recognising stops, finding a space to sit or a person to ask. A talking mobile phone is indispensible but very costly.”

John very kindly took me on the “familiar” route from his house to the main road, which was an absolute education for me. Because he needed to access different surfaces to understand where he was on the route, he was unable to take the shortest route and in fact some of the places that he ended up walking were, for me, far more dangerous than the straightforward route; however, he needed to access different surfaces. In order to cross a piece of land diagonally, he had to ensure a piece of wall was in the middle of his back at just the right angle so that he would end up at the right position for the next stage of the journey. A walk that would take an able, sighted person 10 minutes took him about half an hour.

I appreciate that, with the change in descriptors, John will be entitled to the higher rate of mobility, but what about Michelle? She only has peripheral vision and cannot see at night. As for the daytime, she said to me:

“If I see a puddle, I don't know if it’s a hole or a puddle.”

I have mentioned Barbara, who is a long-cane user and who has talked to me about hazardous journeys where, for example, there are shared pavements or traffic lights that do not have audio or tactile light-changing indicators. Of course, there are also cyclists who do not adhere to lights or—it seems to me—any other elements of the Highway Code, and of course they are another danger. Does the Minister expect partially sighted people who always use a long cane for familiar and unfamiliar journeys to qualify for the higher rate of mobility?

Concern has also been raised that the criteria of being able to do something reliably—safely, to a necessary and appropriate standard, and repeatedly, in a timely manner—will not be in the regulations. They are welcome descriptors, but how can the Minister assure us that those criteria will not change if they are not explicit in the regulations?

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and I congratulate her on securing this important debate. As she knows, guidance notes for the PIP assessors play a key role in ensuring that we get a fair deal for those who are blind or partially sighted. Will she press the Minister to publish those guidance notes as soon as possible?

[Julie Hilling]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, because it is really important that those guidance notes are printed. However, I also question whether we actually need to put those criteria in the regulations themselves.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way and, like other Members, I congratulate her on bringing this matter to the House. The Royal National Institute for Blind People and Action for Blind People have both indicated that they will be able to help people to fill in forms. Does she feel that the Government should consider assisting those organisations to help people to fill in forms and to get the forms right, so that the assessment can be right?

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[Julie Hilling]

The hon. Gentleman raises a really important issue. All of this—particularly with the computerisation of the forms—will be far more difficult. These things are hard enough for people with visual impairment, but they will become even more difficult. Organisations that support people with disabilities are themselves facing tremendous cuts.

As Michelle told me—this is demonstrated by John’s journey time—everything, including cooking, ironing and inspecting food, takes a person with visual impairment longer. What weighting will be given to the time element?

I turn now to the daily living component. Many people have spoken to me about the extra costs of being blind or partially sighted, but some of those costs do not appear in the assessment criteria. A number of people talked about the damage caused to clothing by catching it on railings or overhanging trees, and by falls and such like. There seems to be no recognition of such additional costs.

The assessment criteria appear to award a relatively low score for aids and appliances. The Government state:

“This recognises that the majority of aids are relatively low cost”.

Blind and partially sighted people would hotly dispute that the majority of their aids are low cost. I have mentioned the talking mobile phone and enhanced audiovisual equipment on TVs and computers. Specialist IT software and hardware are expensive. What about talking scales, magnifiers, Braille machines, accessible telephones and all the other devices that people need to lead their lives? Even a white cane costs more than £20. Has the Minister considered other funding sources that could assist blind and visually impaired people if such costs are not met through PIP?

As regards cooking and preparing a simple meal, I am not clear which category blind and visually impaired people could expect to find themselves in. If they can only put a meal prepared by someone else in the microwave, what would they score?

Probably the most significant element in this section for blind and visually impaired people is the cost. By the nature of their disability, many will be unable to find the bargains that sighted people will. They will also have difficulty with use-by dates, and they will often not be able to see whether food is fit to eat. John told me he has to purchase ready-chopped, ready-grated cheese and ready-prepared meat. He has to buy in single-use portions, otherwise he will subsequently not be able to tell whether the food is fit to eat. Of course, all that makes food far more expensive. Is that taken account of anywhere?

What about the washing and bathing section? Focusing only on washing and bathing takes away the elements of grooming. What happens to those who need help with shaving, doing their hair or putting on make-up?

In the dressing and undressing section, will the criteria relating to needing assistance to select appropriate clothing apply to blind and partially sighted people who need someone to prepare their clothing in advance, even if they can dress themselves on the day because their clothes are already sorted by colour and type?

On reading and understanding symbols or words, will the Minister confirm that someone who can read at home with a magnifier, but who cannot read labels in shops or see signs in the street, will be deemed not to be able to read at all?

As regards engaging with other people face to face, what happens with blind and partially sighted people who need someone there to describe the environment? Would they be covered by the words

“Needs prompting to engage with other people”

or

“Needs social support to engage with other people”?

Of course, other, additional costs are involved in keeping a safe, clean home environment. Will allowance be made for the additional costs of paying people for cleaning, laundry and ironing?

Although the debate is about PIP, I ask for the Minister’s indulgence because I also want to raise concerns about people such as Alison losing incapacity benefit and being told they are fit for work. There is no denying that many blind and visually impaired people work, but some are unable to. Are blind and visually impaired people being put into the work-related activity group or taken off employment and support allowance altogether? I have received reports that they are losing DLA. If benefits are supposed to be about what people can do, and not their condition, how can such decisions be made?

Finally, Atos does not have a good reputation for evaluating the needs and capabilities of ill and disabled people. Following the Atos debate, one person wrote about his experience, saying:

“I suffer from RSD/CRPS”—

reflex sympathetic dystrophy/complex regional pain syndrome—

“(an incurable chronic pain syndrome in both feet) which leaves me in constant pain every day and has reduced my mobility. I scored 0 points at the WCA”—

the work capability assessment. He continued:

“You have probably heard of the artistic license the Atos”

health care professionals

“take in documenting the Work Capability Assessment. Mine was no different. The HCP missed out relevant information I divulged in relation to pain, mobilising and standing and sitting. None of the timing in the report was accurate and he even went on to add information about me that I never stated. Mercifully I covertly recorded it all so have an accurate record”.

That is the sort of experience that many people are reporting currently about their Atos assessment, so blind and visually impaired people are rightly worried. How will Atos be monitored? Will the destination of blind and disabled people migrating to PIP be logged, assessed and reported?

As the Government have stated, the likely outcome of the assessment of DLA recipients under PIP is that 510,000 people will have awards increased, 270,000 will have awards unchanged, 510,000 will have awards decreased, and 450,000 people will have no award. How many blind and partially sighted people does the Minister expect will gain, lose or get no award?

I apologise for presenting so many questions to the Minister, but I hope that she will be able to answer the concerns of my constituents and the thousands of other people who will be affected by the changes to benefits.

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[Esther McVey]

The hon. Gentleman may not know that the people seeking the award can say how they would like the form delivered to them and in what context. If people so wish, they can be accompanied by someone from a charity or organisation or by a friend to help them with the assessment. The process is about finding out as much as we can about the individual to help with the assessment and the decision so that we can give the correct award. Again,

“reliably, repeatedly, safely and in a timely manner”

is key to the decisions—that phrase is in the guidance and in the contract with the providers. The hon. Member for Bolton West asked whether that could be put in regulation, and I announced before the Select Committee on Work and Pensions yesterday that we are examining whether that would be of benefit. The matter is with lawyers at the moment, because we do not want to introduce something that could go against what we are seeking to do, to ensure

“reliably, repeatedly, safely and in a timely manner”,

which is key to the assessment. We are therefore looking at whether it can be put in regulation or whether it is better staying in the guidance notes. The hon. Lady also asked about those notes, which will be published as soon as they can be, possibly by the end of the month.

This is a principled reform, which we have developed in consultation and collaboration with disabled people. We have listened to their concerns, and those of their representatives and organisations, and we have made a significant number of changes as a result of the feedback from groups that represent visually impaired people. Indeed, that was recognised by RNIB, which stated in its report to the secondary legislation scrutiny Committee that

“the final criteria include a number of significant improvements for blind and partially sighted people.”

We were told that our draft communication activity did not take appropriate account of the barriers faced by people who cannot access written information. As a result, we introduced an additional activity to assess ability to read and understand signs, symbols and words. Therefore, someone who is completely unable to read because of their disability—for example, because of blindness—will get eight points towards their daily living component score. The score from that activity alone will mean that they get the standard rate of the daily living component. That is only one of the criteria; there will be a further nine in that section.

We also acted on the feedback that the effect of visual impairment for people who use long canes was not appropriately reflected in the mobility activities and that the barriers such people face are similar to those faced by people who have a support dog.

[Julie Hilling]

I appreciate what the Minister says about people who are totally blind, but what about those who can read at home only with the use of a magnifier? A magnifier clearly cannot be taken to the supermarket or into the street. Will such people be deemed unable to read?

[Esther McVey]

That will be recognised, because what an individual can do inside the house with a magnifying glass might be significantly different from what they can do outside the house, such as following a journey, reading signs or reading labels in a shop, all of which have now been taken into consideration and will lead to points being accrued during an assessment.

The final draft of the assessment criteria includes specialist orientation aids, such as long canes, in the “planning and following journeys” activity. Therefore, someone who is blind and needs to use a long cane to follow journeys, even in familiar places, will receive 12 points, which will qualify them for the enhanced rate of the mobility component.

We have acted on concerns about the speed of reassessment by extending the reassessment timetable, so that we can learn from the early introduction of PIP by fully testing our process. We will be able to consider the outcomes of our first independent review in 2014 and act on its findings before reassessing the majority of current DLA claimants. The extended strategy means that the main bulk of reassessment will not start until autumn 2015.

[Julie Hilling]

rose—

[Esther McVey]

I will give way, although time is running out.

[Julie Hilling]

I thank the Minister for her generosity. On mobility, what about people who are severely visually impaired but who have some vision and who need to use a cane for familiar and unfamiliar journeys? Will they be entitled to the highest number of points?

[Esther McVey]

Again, the benefit is based on the individual, so I cannot give an all-encompassing answer. We have taken on board all the factors that have been raised today, and they have been reflected in the assessment. We have made that very clear, and each person will be viewed on how they are affected by their condition. The likelihood is that the answer is yes, but we have to view people as individuals. There have been strong representations from all the blind charities and partially sighted organisations, and those representations are reflected. The news of how we have changed the assessment has been welcomed by the groups themselves.

We are also seeking to learn from the experience of delivering the work capability assessment—and, yes, from the failings that we have had to address—to ensure that we get PIP right from the start. As part of that, we are looking closely at the findings of both the independent reviews of the work capability assessment by Professor Harrington to see where we can improve the design of the PIP claim and assessment processes to make them better, more effective and a more positive experience for claimants.

I hope that I have reassured hon. Members that we have listened and acted on the concerns of visually impaired people and that PIP will take appropriate account of the barriers that they face on a daily basis. As material on the RNIB acknowledges, the changes now mean that the

“blind and partially sighted should see their needs recognised when PIP is introduced.”

Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Toby Perkins]

On the specific issue of whether HMV has gone bust purely as a result of the economic circumstances, no, that is not the case I am making. However, when a raft of retail organisations go into administration, and when we see in many town centres—happily, not in Chesterfield because of the progressive policies of the Labour council—a huge number of empty shop units, it is perhaps time to start considering whether the economic policies pursued by the Government may have some sort of link to the economic success of our businesses.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I am following what my hon. Friend says and I absolutely agree that cuts have to be economically competent. The International Monetary Fund has already warned the Government that the annual cut of £24 billion to benefits and tax credits will reduce economic output by up to £40 billion.

[Toby Perkins]

That very important point underlines much of what I am saying. When hon. Members talk about benefits rising faster than earnings, we have to understand that each one of us needs basic things to stay alive. We need to have enough food to eat and put in front of our children for them to survive; we need clothing so that we can go out in the street; and we must be able to afford transport to get to job interviews.

Atos Work Capability Assessments

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

There is so much to say and so little time. Let me start by congratulating my right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) on securing this important debate.

The Government have many questions to answer about the way that work capability assessments are being carried out and about Atos. The way in which decisions are made on the ability of disabled people to work is nothing short of scandalous. The attack on people who are unable to work, in which they are labelled as skivers and scroungers, has demonised them in the eyes of the public. Yet fraud in disability benefits is very low—so low that it is not even under continuous review. Why are Atos and the Department for Work and Pensions cruelly finding people fit for work or putting them in the work-related activity group when they are clearly unable to work?

About 40% of appeals against the assessments are successful. Interestingly, the figure rises to 70% for claimants who are represented by a benefits expert. Of course, the success rate is only half the story because some people are too ill to appeal, others decide to resubmit their application from the start, and still others die before they get to the tribunal.

There are real questions about Atos and the Government. If I had a contract with anyone who failed in 40% of their decisions and cost me a lot of money, I would not continue to use them. However, the Government have just given Atos the contract for the personal independence payment, so they cannot be dissatisfied with its performance. There are questions to answer. Are the Government giving targets to Atos, either covertly or overtly? Have the Government discussed their expectation of reducing the number of people on benefits or is Atos doing that of its own accord? Everybody says officially that there are no targets, but workers report a different story.

When Dr Steve Bick went undercover for the “Dispatches” programme, he was told more than once that the process is meant to take people off benefit, and that if he did not find enough people fit to work, his assessments would be monitored. He was also told that if he found more than 12% or 13% of people unfit for work, he would be told that his rate was too high.

My surgery is full of people who have been cruelly treated by the DWP and Atos. I wish that I could tell all their stories, but I will tell just a few. I have changed their names. Sylvia’s husband came to see me because she was too ill to come. She had a subarachnoid haemorrhage four years ago, but aged 41, has now been found fit for work. She suffers blackouts, cannot dress herself, cannot self-medicate, cannot climb stairs by herself and cannot go out alone because she cannot remember where she lives or where she is going. Three to four times each month, she gets hemiplegic migraines, which last between two and six days, and mean that she becomes paralysed on her right side and loses her speech. Despite that, she has been found fit for work. The jobcentre, however, will not sign her on because it says that she is not fit for work. Needless to say, the stress sets off her migraines. One wonders what is the matter with her assessors.

Susan, a sufferer of fibromyalgia and hypermobility syndrome, told me that she felt like she was on trial for benefit fraud at her assessment. Bill, a former long-distance lorry driver, had chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, heart disease and diabetes. He thought the fact that he could not breathe would be reason enough to find him unfit for work, but of course he was wrong. He did not tell the assessors about his cerebral brain ascension, which means that he has terrible memory problems, because he is ashamed of having the condition. Of course, he has now had to tell them. He waited for nine months and then the decision was overturned.

There are many more people I could talk about, but I will finish with Clare, who has severe mental health issues and scoliosis. She scored 15 points and was placed in the work-related activity group, even though she will clearly never be able to work. She appealed the decision and had to wait for 12 months, which made her condition far worse. She was then put in the support group.

People being placed in the work-related activity group is the next scandal. When people score 15 points and are found not fit for work, but are put in the work-related activity group, they will lose their benefit after 365 days. Is that another way of saving money, but one that also puts disabled people into abject poverty and causes them terrible stress?

There are so many questions. Why do the assessors give more weight to work capability assessment descriptors than to professional medical assessments? Why do they reassess people who have just won their appeal? Why do they not record the number of people who die through illness or suicide when being rejected for disability benefit? Why do they not track people who have been found fit for work and people who no longer receive benefit? How much do all the botched assessments cost us?

We believe that we have a contract with the state. We work and pay our national insurance and tax in the belief that when we can no longer work, the state will look after us. The Government seem to have broken that contract. Surely the Minister cannot accept this cruel and heartless treatment of ill and disabled people. What is he going to do about it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hoban]

There is nothing in the contract with Atos to suggest that there should be any targets for whom they recommend gets placed in particular groups. I want to be absolutely clear: there no targets and it is absolutely right that there should be no targets, because what all of us want, whichever side of the debate we are on, is to ensure that we get the right people in the right groups for the right support. We cannot do that with targets. We have to treat everyone individually. That is the dignity that we should accord the people going through the process. They should know that they are going to be treated with dignity. There are no preconceived targets.

[Julie Hilling]

The question then is not whether the Government are putting targets in place, but whether the Minister is 100% convinced that Atos does not set targets for any of its work force in any way, because that does not seem to be the evidence coming out. Is he utterly convinced about that and if not, will he investigate whether that is the case?

[Mr Hoban]

We have these discussions; there are no targets in the system. Indeed, the proportion of people who have been placed in the support group has doubled. To my mind, that suggests that there are no targets—it is very clear evidence of that.

Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

How can it be that we are the seventh richest nation in the world but our children are getting rickets? How is it possible that in our rich nation 13 million people live below the poverty line—or that 200,000 people had to go to food banks last year, or that the poor have to make a choice between heating and eating, or that children are going to school hungry?

The reason is that this rotten, heartless Government have given a tax cut to millionaires but with this Bill make the poor suffer even more. They have the cheek to label the 2.5 million people who are desperate for work as “shirkers”. How dare they?

Do the Government want to tell Allan, who was working for an agency that gradually reduced his hours to the point where he lost his home—he is now sofa-surfing—that he is a shirker? What about Nicola, who lost her tax credits while she was on maternity leave, or 59-year-old Patricia who, having worked all her life, has become unemployed due to an injury and already cannot heat her house? What about Stephen, who has just got custody of his three boys aged under seven and has had to give up his job as a chef because he could not get care for the children at night? What about Peter, who was about to set up home with his girlfriend until he lost his job three weeks before Christmas?

Government Members do not have a clue. What would they like to say to my neighbour Leah, a single mum of two working 16 hours a week on the minimum wage? She uses her £101 a week wages to pay her rent, utilities, council tax and other household bills. She uses her tax credits to buy food, clothes, school dinners and her £18-a-week bus fares. What will she cut out when her money will not cover her basics? Should she beg for food at a food bank, stop her children from going swimming, stop heating the house or do what so many other parents have to do at the moment—skip meals just so that she can feed the children?

Sixty-eight per cent. of the people hit by this Bill are, like Leah, in work. They are nurses, soldiers, shop workers, cleaners, teachers, admin workers and care workers. Many are already struggling to make ends meet, and this will put them over the edge. What about the others who are affected—carers and the disabled, and people desperate for work? Government Members should be ashamed of themselves.

This policy is also going to harm the economy. The IMF has already warned the Government that their annual cut of £24 billion to benefits and tax credits will reduce economic output by up to £40 billion. Not only are they heartless; they are incompetent too. The way to get down the benefits bill is to get people into decently paid work. By already having a double-dip recession and heading for a triple dip, the Government have demonstrated that we cannot cut our way out of a recession—we have to grow our way out. Punishing the poor and bringing them to desperation will not grow the economy; it will simply make it worse.

The Government boast that they are creating jobs but fail to tell us how many of those jobs are unpaid, because unbelievably they are including unpaid workfare placements in the figure for jobs created. They are silent on the number of those jobs that are under 16 hours a week, and they do not tell us how many of these so-called new jobs are really public sector jobs that are simply being transferred to the private sector.

Yes, the Government need to get a grip on the economy, but not by driving the disabled to suicide and the poor to despair. They need to take action to grow the economy, not starve the poor. This Bill is a disgrace and I will be proud to vote against it and stand up for my constituents, both in work and out, who need a system that will support them and their families in good times and bad.

Welfare Reform (Disabled People and Carers)

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Esther McVey]

I will not give way.

Work must always pay more than benefits, and that is why we are introducing the cap on the amount of benefits that working-age people can receive. It is not reasonable or fair that people out of work can get an income from benefits that is greater than the average weekly wage for working households. We understand, however, that disabled people face extra costs, and that is why we are exempting from the cap households receiving DLA, PIP or the support component of the employment and support allowance.

It is fair that the benefits system should support people in public housing in the same way as it does those in private housing, but we have made changes to the housing benefit regulations, in recognition of the fact that some people need an additional room for an overnight carer who lives elsewhere. We have also listened to concerns about disabled people living in significantly adapted accommodation, and have announced additional discretionary housing payment funding of £30 million for 2013-14, to cover both that group and foster carers.

Instead of simply cutting money from everyone, we chose the more difficult but principled option of modernising the benefit and focusing support where it is needed most. PIP will be awarded on the basis of fair, consistent and objective assessments, and such assessments are not in place at the moment. The assessments have taken two years to develop. We consulted with disabled people and made key changes as we received their feedback.

Although they are different assessments that will work in different ways, we have learned from the experiences of the work capability assessment—something that the Opposition brought in—and we had to introduce Professor Harrington, who produced recommendations that we are still working through, to get this right. That will enable us more accurately and consistently to ensure that support is targeted at those who face the greatest barriers to leading independent lives. More than a fifth of PIP recipients will get both of the highest rates, worth £134.40 a week, compared with only 16% of those who are on DLA at the moment.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for giving way when time is so short. I have listened carefully to everything she has said, and what I do not understand, at the end of it, is this: why will disabled people be financially worse off, when she says that everything in the garden is rosy? I truly do not understand how she can say that, when every day on which we have a surgery we face people coming in to say how they are suffering under the Government’s policies. I do not understand—

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. That is enough.

Personal Independence Payments

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Thursday 13th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Last, but certainly not least, Julie Hilling.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I, too, am really shocked that the Minister is not going to carry out an impact assessment, and I wonder whether she will answer the question this time. Will blind people get the equivalent of the higher-rate mobility component of DLA?

[Esther McVey]

Every individual will be assessed on their individual needs. We have taken significant soundings and listened to all the various groups. Each person will get the benefit that they require.

Bill presented

Succession to the Crown Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

The Deputy Prime Minister, supported by the Prime Minister, Secretary William Hague, Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Vince Cable, Mr Secretary Moore, Danny Alexander and Miss Chloe Smith, presented a Bill to make succession to the Crown not depend on gender; to make provision about Royal Marriages; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Monday 17 December 2012, and to be printed (Bill 110) with explanatory notes (Bill 110-EN).

Work Capability Reassessments

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Sheila Gilmore]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. There is evidence that people who are represented are more likely to be successful than those who are unable to get representation.

That is the context for the issue of reassessment: the high volume of appeals means that people must wait long periods for a hearing and a decision. In answer to a written question last month, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant) said:

“During the period 1 April to 30 June 2012 (the latest period for which data has been published) the average time taken from receipt of an ESA appeal by the SSCS Tribunal to disposal was 19 weeks”.—[Official Report, 19 November 2012; Vol. 553, c. 307W.]

However, that 19 weeks is not the average waiting time for an individual making an appeal but merely the average time it takes the Tribunals Service to process the appeal after it receives the papers. Before it even receives the papers, an appeal must be lodged with the DWP, the relevant decision maker has to perform a series of checks and the Department must prepare and submit its response.

There is no time limit for DWP to prepare its response to an appeal. In a written answer to a question from me in February this year, the then Justice Minister, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), indicated that between June 2010 and May 2011, the average time it took from the submission of an appeal to DWP to receipt of the papers by the Tribunals Service was 8.1 weeks. If we add that to the average of 19 weeks, we are looking at about 27 weeks. Over and above that, individuals will have submitted an application and undergone an assessment. In 2011, they had to wait seven weeks for the result of that assessment, although I know from talking to my colleagues that many people encounter much longer waits.

What does all that mean in practice? I raised an example during Prime Minister’s questions on 2 March last year. A constituent of mine had a young adult son who was severely autistic but had been found fit for work, and who appealed successfully. The process took 10 months, and he was told that he would have to be reassessed in six months. I do not think that the Prime Minister understood the question that I was asking; he gave me an answer about disability living allowance rather than employment and support allowance.

Before the Minister says, “That was then; that was 2011, and we have made so many improvements that it isn’t happening any more,” only two weeks ago, I visited a constituent whom I had not met before who told me a similar story of having applied, being refused and appealing, and who within a relatively short time had to go through another assessment.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is being generous with her time. Does she agree that it seems to be utter nonsense? There is a lack of understanding. If people have progressive illnesses or permanent conditions, they will not be any more fit for work in a few months’ time. It seems to be one of the absolute immoralities of the system that people who cannot ever work continue to be called back for reassessments.

[Sheila Gilmore]

That leads me neatly into my next point. I followed up with a written question, and the then Minister of State for the Department of Work and Pensions—now Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice—set out the official line, which is that the period between assessments is known as a prognosis time and is determined by the decision maker at the time when they decide whether someone is fit for work or should be given ESA. The clock starts ticking on the date of the original decision.

My immediate question is why someone found fit for work would be given a prognosis time in the first place. Hon. Members might think that that would not be necessary, because the assumption is that the person will be moving on to jobseeker’s allowance. The only reason that I can envisage for that is that prognosis times are, in effect, a precautionary measure in the event that if a claimant successfully appeals, as so many do, and is awarded ESA, a prognosis time is ready. But if the decision maker’s original determination that the claimant was fit for work is overturned, why should we put any faith in the corresponding determination on what the prognosis time should be? If the decision on a claimant’s being fit for work was wrong, surely one imagines that the decision on the prognosis time would be wrong.

It would make much more sense for those who are declared fit for work to be given no prognosis time and, in the event of a successful appeal, for the judges to be given a responsibility for settling the matter when making their new decision. If that is not thought possible, the prognosis times should only kick in after a successful appeal and should not start from the time of the original decision, because that is putting people on a rapid roundabout.

During the summer, my hopes were raised that the Government might have seen the contradictions in the current arrangements. In an interview for the BBC “Panorama” documentary in July 2011, the then Minister—now Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice—said,

“It’s been apparent to me in the last few months that we were calling people back too regularly and I’ve instructed the officials that operate the system to actually make sure that we leave a much more sensible gap in between the two.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Esther McVey]

Of course, that would concern me; it would be of concern to anyone. Everybody will be followed up and duly represented and given sufficient support. However, we would have to look into those numbers. Those who are on benefit get the support they need, in contrast to previous approaches through which they were abandoned to a lifetime on benefits. Those who have been found fit for work now claim JSA, an active benefit with a proven track record of getting people into work, as the falling unemployment figures have shown.

On the cases raised this evening, it is important to note that if someone appeals against a disallowance decision, the tribunal considers the evidence, the law and the claimant’s circumstances at the time of that decision. If the appeal is upheld and the claimants are awarded ESA, they are quite rightly required to attend a further work capability assessment in the same way as any other ESA claimant—the timing of the reassessment is the issue. It is not true that the time frame set for the work capability assessment remains fixed by the original decision maker when the fit-for-work decision was made. If an appeal has been upheld, the date for the next WCA is decided afresh by a decision maker; re-referral dates chosen can be three, six, 12, 18 or 24 months later, depending on when it is considered most appropriate for claimants to have their next contact with the Department.

[Julie Hilling]

What concerns me is those people who will always have such a condition or who have a progressive condition, meaning that they will only get worse. What about them? To continue to reassess them and put them through that stress feels absolutely wrong—I cannot think of a better word—

[John McDonnell]

Cruel.

[Julie Hilling]

Cruel, yes. Why are we doing that to that group of people who will never get better?

[Esther McVey]

I completely take on board the hon. Lady’s point. Part of the decision maker’s process is that all the available information will be considered, including: any recommendations made by the tribunal; any factors the tribunal took into account in reaching its decision; the health care professional’s advice from the previous assessment; and any medical evidence submitted after the appeal was made. Other considerations will include the type of limited capability for work, whether the limited capability is likely to change for better or worse and how likely any surgery or other significant improvement is.

Oral Answers to Questions

Julie Hilling Excerpts

Monday 5th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Duncan Smith]

The introduction of universal credit will hugely help families with the lowest incomes. Something like 80% of the money is transferred to the bottom 40% on the income scale, so that helps hugely straight away. Secondly, it is very important that we have an opportunity for Departments—they will do this in discussion with us—to consider how best they can ensure that those most in need get the money and support they require.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

13. If he will make it his policy to begin monitoring the number of people who die as a result of (a) illness and (b) suicide whilst awaiting the result of employment and support allowance appeals.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

My Department publishes information on ESA appeals when they have been heard by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal Service. We have no plans to capture or publish official statistics relevant to the specific circumstances described. In July, we published data on the number of deaths of incapacity benefits recipients. They include claimants awaiting appeal where benefit is still in payment.

[Julie Hilling]

With Atos failing on 40% of its work capability assessments, with an estimated 30 to 80 people dying each week between assessment and appeal, and with 6% of doctors surveyed reporting that they have patients who have either attempted or committed suicide as a result of work capability assessments, does the Minister not think that he has a duty to monitor the effect of his policies?

[Mr Hoban]

As I said in answer to earlier questions, we are monitoring the effect of our policies. We are ensuring that the work capability assessment is fit for purpose and that is why we asked Professor Harrington to carry out a third review to ensure that the process is right and fair. The hon. Lady should also remember that the work capability assessment is an assessment of people’s ability to work, not a diagnostic test.