British Indian Ocean Territory

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

My right hon. Friend is spot on and makes a point that I have made. There are people—judges in particular—who clearly are undermining our integrity, sovereignty and the decision making in our own Government. They are pursuing their own interests and that is why we have to call out this deal.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

On that point, did my right hon. Friend see the report in The Daily Telegraph on 26 February that one of the other judges who took part in that judgment, Patrick Robinson, believes that the United Kingdom should be repaying at least £18 trillion in reparations for slavery in the past?

[Priti Patel]

I did read that report. I have to say that that is exactly why we questioned the deal. It is the wrong approach, it really is. For all the lawyers sitting on the Labour Benches and in the Government—well, supposed lawyers—why are they not effectively looking at the integrity of the proposed deal and providing the scrutiny that is needed?

We need Ministers to confirm when they decided that the proposed deal should be shared with the new American Administration, because there are so many questions as to how we got into this position. For weeks, Ministers refused to say—here at the Dispatch Box—that they would wait until President Trump took office, including failing to answer questions directly on 14 January. While they were refusing to say anything, the Mauritius Government suggested that Ministers here were not just eager but desperate to complete the deal by 20 January. But on 15 January, through a Downing Street briefing—not a statement to this House, Madam Deputy Speaker—we learnt that the Government would now wait to brief the new President and that the Prime Minister of Mauritius told his Assembly that it was a unilateral decision of the United Kingdom to postpone matters. When the Minister responds to the debate, will she finally confirm on which date the Government policy towards consulting the new US Administration and delaying the deal was agreed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Anneliese Dodds]

I will not be invited down any route by the Conservative party. We all know where that leads—to rack and ruin.

Of course, the situation for many Chagossians has been very difficult. I know this is an issue of concern to many Members, particularly those who represent UK-based Chagossians. That is why, as I said, that engagement has been important.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

rose—

[Anneliese Dodds]

I will take one last intervention.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

The Minister is putting up a gallant fight in a very difficult situation. For the avoidance of doubt, is she saying that there is another court—other than the ICJ—that could compel this country to give up the Chagos islands? If so, will she identify that court?

[Anneliese Dodds]

What I have said is that there is clear risk to critical functions of that base on Diego Garcia because of legal jeopardy. Conservative Members do not appear to be aware of those issues for contractors, insurers and communications and from the risk of hostile states when it comes to the outlying islands, while the Government are concerned about that risk. I detailed earlier the 28 different judges and arbitrators who have expressed an opinion on this. To suggest that there is no legal jeopardy is, I am afraid, for the birds.

To conclude, this deal has had support across the US national security apparatus. The previous US Administration supported the deal. The new US Administration is rightly ensuring that they are satisfied. The deal has been welcomed by India and the UN Secretary General. The shadow Foreign Secretary mentioned China in her remarks. Again, I know that Conservative Governments have been confused about China. They have oscillated all over the place in their relationship, but can she or anyone tell me whether China has welcomed this deal. No? A pin could drop, Madam Deputy Speaker. China has not welcomed it because it knows that it will strengthen our country’s position in the region for the foreseeable future. Security must be our priority, but we have also negotiated an agreement that protects the unique marine environment and reflects Chagossians’ demand. This deal will protect the base, solidify our relationship with our closest ally and reinforce the UK’s global leadership. Anyone who values UK national security and that of our allies should back this deal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine West]

The right hon. Member has a long history of being active in the all-party parliamentary group with the hon. Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell), who is not in his place but is on the shadow Foreign Office team. It goes to show that across the House, there has long been a desire, including from the former Member for Crawley, to bring the true situation of the Chagossians to light. I pay tribute to all Members from all parts of this House who have fought for a long time for the Chagossians to be treated properly.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Lillian Jones) said—in a sensible contribution, as opposed to some of the other contributions to the debate—we regret how the Chagossians were removed from the island and how they were treated thereafter. The negotiations were between two states, and our consistent priority and that of the previous Government has been to protect the base, and we have not necessarily always focused on the needs of those people. I thank those Members this afternoon who have brought forward the interests of the Chagossians, including some Lib Dem Members.

The Government will finance a new trust fund for the support of the Chagossian community. We will also take forward visits to the archipelago. For the first time, Mauritius will be free to implement a programme of resettlement to the islands other than Diego Garcia. I know that that will also be a positive development for my hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane), whose community includes an active group of Chagossians.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

I have a lot of respect for the hon. Lady, and that is why I will have one more go at this: is there any court, other than the ICJ, that could come to a judgment against Britain over the sovereignty of the islands?

[Catherine West]

As the right hon. Member is aware, given his long background in intelligence, the lack of legal certainty is why we have acted. The base cannot operate in practical terms as it should. It is bad for our national security, and a gift to our adversaries, if we fail to secure legal certainty for the base.

To continue the point on the Chagossians, there are many different views within the Chagossian community. To give one example, the Chagos Refugees Group, often represented by Olivier Bancoult, is one of the largest Chagossian groups. It has welcomed the agreement.

On the environment question, my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd) mentioned the unique environment around the Chagos islands. The most important marine environments need to be protected. While security is paramount, we have also secured a deal that will help protect the unique environment of the Chagos archipelago. There will be an enhanced partnership between the UK and Mauritius, under which the UK will support Mauritius’s ambitions to establish a marine protected area that protects the globally significant ecosystems in the Chagos archipelago.

Sudan: US Determination of Genocide

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that subject, about which we talked a little previously. To underline the UK’s position, we believe it important that there are international mechanisms for determinations on these critical issues because there must be international trust for those determinations to carry weight. That is the UK’s approach. When it comes to accountability, evidence gathering and acting on the evidence, we have sought to ensure that the UK supports those mechanisms, including the International Criminal Court. I have talked before about the UK’s contribution to that Court.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Since we last discussed this horror on 29 October, I am not aware of any major news coverage of it. How is it that it goes so under-reported? Is it simply too dangerous for journalists to be there? The Minister stresses the wish for no other country to intervene, but is it not the case that genocides tend to go on until someone stops the people committing them?

[Anneliese Dodds]

The right hon. Gentleman asks about media coverage. I was pleased that the BBC produced a major package on Tom Fletcher’s visit. I am very pleased that there was that UN engagement, which is incredibly important. We need more focus on the situation. Indeed, that is how I would respond—very briefly, Madam Deputy Speaker—to the right hon. Gentleman’s third point. One of the most important things in the prevention of atrocities is the ability for journalists, fact-finders, investigators and experts to visit, and the UK has been supporting that in our activity. Finally, he asks about how we can ensure that there is a greater profile on these issues from the UK side. As I mentioned earlier, I was very pleased that the UK’s Richard Crowder was able to visit Sudan. It is important that we have a presence in that country.

Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Rebecca Smith]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. The Bill is seeking a detailed explanation from parents of what they are planning to do at home with their children. Quite frankly, it will hinder the work that they are doing in educating those children. Schools are probably not readily providing some of that information either.

I am concerned by the implication in the Bill that the state is better at parenting than parents themselves. The changes in the Bill directly contradict section 7 of the Education Act 1996, which affirms a parent’s legal duty to ensure that their children

“receive efficient full-time education…either by regular attendance at school or otherwise.”

That is important, because it underscores the principle that parents, not the state, hold primary responsibility for the education of their children, except in the minority of cases where there is harm or neglect. Let us not forget that many parents opt to home-school because the state system has failed their children. I urge caution with the provision in the Bill, which will add further stress to such parents, who have already had to fight long and hard for their children.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I applaud my hon. Friend for the point that she is making. I, too, have had representations from excellent home-schooling parents. Does she think that there is a way, with reason and understanding on both sides, for a balance to be struck between the need to safeguard the right of responsible parents to home-school their children and the need to prevent the abuse of children by parents who have other, more sinister, objectives?

[Rebecca Smith]

My right hon. Friend is correct. There has to be a middle ground that we could find. I suggest that we are using a hammer to crack a nut. A lot of these parents are not against having to say something about what they are doing, but to suggest that they have to give chapter and verse to their local authority, which in many cases will have failed them already—that relationship may well have broken down—feels like too much of a strike.

Higher Education Reform

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, and we will absolutely take that into consideration. It is important that we look at student accommodation, which is a big challenge in many university towns, including in her constituency. I believe the sector should be doing more to address issues around student accommodation, working with local councils. We will be setting clear expectations of how that should work in future.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

The Secretary of State mentioned having paused the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023. Does she accept that, given that the Act got Royal Assent in May 2023, it remains the law of the land until repealed by this Parliament? How long does she expect that pause to continue?

[Bridget Phillipson]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. He is correct in the question he asks; what I would say about the commencement of the provisions and the wider, long-term future of the Act is this. I believe it is important that our universities are places of robust challenge and disagreement, and that students should be exposed to a range of views, some of which they may not agree with. However, alongside that, it is important that regulation is workable. That is why we are taking our time to make sure that we get this right, listening to a range of voices across the sector who hold differing views. That work is under way. We will make sure that we act having listened to those views, and that will be at the heart of further steps we take in this area.

Sudan

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning that; she has considerable experience in the area of humanitarian need. We were extremely concerned by the situation that was revealed, for example, in the panel of experts’ report in January 2024 about external engagement. I have said from the Dispatch Box before, and I will say again, that the only reason for another country to be engaged in Sudan is to help to provide humanitarian support. That is the only reason for external engagement, and we will continue to make that argument very strongly.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Both Front Benchers seem united in their passionate concern about this terrible conflict. Does the Minister agree that if this situation were happening in a conflict on the continent of Europe or in the middle east, it would be on our national news night after night? Why does she think our broadcasters give a second-order priority to such a terrible conflict?

[Anneliese Dodds]

The right hon. Gentleman asks an important question, and one that I have been struggling with too. Without dwelling on it, hearing from those who have been directly impacted by the crisis about the horrendous time that they have spent trying to escape the violence leads one to the conclusion that there must be more of a focus on the situation. The most appalling outcome would be if, some years hence, people were to look back and say, “Why did the international community not do more?” The Government are determined to use every lever—multilateral and bilateral—to try to force change and make sure that the people of Sudan are protected.

International Engagement

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue. He is right: it is an issue of which not only UK farmers and agriculture experts in our universities but the British public are deeply supportive, and the Government are determined to do what we can to support sustainable agriculture. We see, for example, very little climate finance going into that arena. More of it should be going there, which is why the UK is working with the US and, indeed, announced support for joint initiatives last week at the World Bank annual meeting.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

When one group of people have done something terrible to another group of people, it is understandable that resentment about it can pass down to the next generation and possibly the generation after that, but does the Minister agree that to suggest that that process can continue over two centuries, and thus require guilt to be expiated in the form of reparations, is to make a nonsense of the concept of individual responsibility?

Sudan

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the important point about diaspora communities in the UK. I have spoken to many people with Sudanese heritage in the UK who are deeply concerned about the situation at home. I am yet to meet someone with Sudanese heritage who has not been impacted somehow—who does not have a close family member who has been killed or subjected to violence, or has had to flee or is in food insecurity. I pay tribute to the Sudanese community in Newport and across our country. Most certainly, their plight is not being forgotten.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I commend the Minister on having made her visit so promptly. The conflicts in Ukraine and the middle east get coverage on the news night after night. It seems to me that this conflict ought similarly to constantly feature in our media. Why is that not happening? Is it purely because of the denial of journalistic access?

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question, which I have thought about a lot. How can we elevate this crisis? One fears that people will look back and ask why more was not done about it, given the huge humanitarian toll—there is the biggest displacement crisis in the world, and the famine—which the UK Government recognise. Some very committed journalists are covering it, and I praise their actions. I hope that there can be additional coverage and greater international awareness. That is important for the UN and other multilateral organisations as well. This Government will do all we can to raise the profile of this crisis within those bodies.

Ukraine

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Monday 2nd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for mentioning that important subject. The UK will continue to work closely with our international partners to ensure that Ukraine gets the support it needs to resist Russian aggression. At the NATO summit in Washington, the Prime Minister announced that the UK-administered international fund for Ukraine will place a new order worth £300 million for 120,000 rounds of ammunition, bolstering Ukraine’s defences against Russia.

I should also mention that the UK is co-leading a new maritime capability coalition alongside Norway, which will strengthen Ukraine’s ability to operate at sea, and a major drone capability coalition with Latvia to scale up the west’s provision of first-person view drones to Ukraine. There is extensive and deep work with our allies when it comes to supporting the defence of Ukraine.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Do the Government have a view on why certain far-right politicians in the United States, Europe and even, dare I say it, Britain seem to have a soft spot for President Putin’s Russia?

[Anneliese Dodds]

The right hon. Member raises an important question. It is clear that Russia’s activity under President Putin’s illegal leadership has included an attack not only on Ukraine but on democratic values and international humanitarian law. I am pleased that we have seen bipartisan support across the House for rejecting that aggression, and I hope that that will continue.

Girls’ Education

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alok Sharma]

First, I agree with the hon. Lady that education is absolutely vital because we know that, for every girl who goes to secondary school, infant mortality is cut in half. About 12 million children would escape stunting due to malnutrition if every girl went to secondary school, and we would see significantly higher GDP growth across the world. Of course, we share any learnings that we have across government, and we will continue to do so.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Ah, yes, the good doctor—Dr Julian Lewis.

[Dr Lewis]

In how many third-world countries are girls like Malala at risk of attack or assassination, and do we have any programmes to assist the Governments in those countries to protect them?

Counter-Daesh Update

Julian Lewis Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Rory Stewart]

That portrait of a courtroom is of course profoundly shocking, and the hon. Gentleman is right to say that if court proceedings are conducted in that way—in other words, if people feel that their constitutional rights are not being upheld and that their evidence is being extracted by torture to gain a prosecution —that simply provides a really strong reason for there to be more insurgency, as well as that being a flagrant abuse and a flagrantly unjust act. The challenge for us is to think what Britain and other countries can actually do about it. The reality is that we have tended to approach rule of law programmes through focusing on training, so traditionally a judge like that would have been put through a training course; they might even have been flown to the University of Kansas for a couple of weeks to go on a seminar and there would have been a lot of investment in legal books and court procedure. The problem however in that specific case is unlikely to have been simply to do with capacity building; it is much more likely to be about the political context. The key thing is to try to communicate to a sovereign Government in the most respectful way we can through the Ministry of Justice that in the end this kind of approach is, as indeed many Iraqis would acknowledge, self-defeating. Working out how we as Britain or France or Germany or the United States or anyone else can actually get involved right down to the level of that courtroom and a decision made by a judge on the bench remains very tough there, or indeed in 100 other countries in the world.

The question of divorce and the treatment of women is again a subset of a much bigger issue: the ways in which this type of injustice and abuse will continue to fuel resentment going forward into the future, and I look forward perhaps to sitting down with the hon. Gentleman to discuss the issues of the borders on another occasion.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to hear my right hon. Friend talking about this subject; although it is a grim subject, the depth of his knowledge is always enlightening, and I would hope that at some stage we might have a debate rather than just an update statement so that we can engage with him more fully. May I therefore raise a couple of points?

First, does my right hon. Friend accept that ultimately the reason Daesh was defeated was that, by seizing and holding territory, it gave up the terrorists’ best weapon: the cloak of invisibility? Secondly, the only thing I found missing from his statement was any reference to that part of Syria that was not fought upon and occupied by the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces. Can he explain what percentage of the country is occupied by forces other than the Kurdish-led forces? Is not a large percentage of the country occupied by the forces of Assad? Does he now accept what the Government have denied all along: that if we wanted the insurgency in Syria to be defeated, the logical consequence—unacceptable though it seems—was going to be that Assad was at least in part going to win, given the support of his Russian backers?

[Rory Stewart]

These are two important challenges from the distinguished Chairman of the Defence Committee. I shall take the second one, then move on to the first. It is of course true that the vast majority of Syria is now in the hands of Bashar al-Assad’s regime. Looking back in time, we can see that the optimism of the United States and the United Kingdom that Bashar al-Assad would inevitably be defeated, and the red lines that were created by President Obama and others, have not been vindicated in any way at all. In fact, with Russian backing, the Syrian regime has not only retaken the land right the way up to the Euphrates—the edge of the area we are talking about with the SDF—but has pushed south to the Jordanian border and is now pushing up to Idlib, having taken Aleppo and the rural areas around Damascus. The Chairman of the Defence Committee is absolutely correct in his assessment of that. That does not answer the bigger question, which is what Governments such as those of the United Kingdom or the United States will choose to do with the Syrian regime in the future. This returns us to the kinds of challenges that we faced in dealing with, for example, the Shi’a community in southern Iraq under the brutality of Saddam Hussein. How on earth do we balance our humanitarian obligations towards people in horrifying conditions with our sense that we do not wish to operate in the territory of a man who, whatever the sequence of his military successes, remains an unbelievably brutal murderer who is clearly associated with the execution of unarmed prisoners and countless persons through the deployment of chemical weapons? That will remain the key issue for the House to consider over the next months and, indeed, years.

On the first issue, the Chairman of the Defence Committee is also absolutely right. One of the most bizarre, peculiar and ultimately self-defeating parts of Daesh’s campaign was its decision to try to hold territory and, in particular, to try to take on conventional forces. The entire idea of an insurgency or a terrorist organisation is supposed to be that it should drift around like mist or, to take Chairman Mao’s analogy, that it should work and feed off the consent of the local population. Daesh did neither of those things. It attempted to hold territory and, in Kobane, to take on 600 US airstrikes. It attempted to alienate the entire population that it was trying to depend on, through its brutal videos and its incredibly horrifying Islamic social codes. What is extraordinary is not that Daesh was ultimately defeated but that it remained so successful for so long and was able to hold this territory for such an extended period of time.