Infrastructure

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

I know that that is something that my hon. Friend has worked on carefully and is discussing with Ministers and shadow Ministers. It is worth looking at such a scheme.

The Government’s national infrastructure plan is well worth reading. [Interruption.] Given that even the Deputy Prime Minister says that the Government have got it wrong on infrastructure investment, one would think that the Minister of State, Home Department, the hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), might listen to the debate, rather than just chuntering from a sedentary position. The national infrastructure plan exemplifies the vacuum of leadership from this Government, with more projects being kicked into the long grass. Let us take the A14, which was described by the former Transport Secretary as “a crucial strategic route” and

“a lifeline to international markets.”

Now the Treasury says that construction might just begin in 2018. The Mersey gateway, which has been highlighted as one of the world’s most important infrastructure projects, has still not had a preferred bidder announced. Today we found out that 45 winning bids for the regional growth fund—the Deputy Prime Minister’s pride and joy—have already walked away from the process, which is taking so long, with millions of pounds of public money gathering dust in Whitehall. Delay, delay, delay.

That inaction is costing jobs. The construction sector has lost 129,000 jobs since this Tory-led Government came to power. What a waste. No wonder that John Cridland, director general of the CBI, is asking the Government where the diggers on the ground are.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

It was reported in The Guardian recently that total PFI liabilities are likely to be more than £300 billion. Will the hon. Lady confirm that, should the Labour party form the next UK Government, it will not return to PFI?

[Rachel Reeves]

PFI in my constituency built three new secondary schools and helped to rebuild primary schools, as well as building Sure Start centres. I would not have wanted any of those projects not to go ahead, so I do not share the hon. Gentleman’s criticism.

It is not just independent outsiders attempting to urge the Chancellor to change course and take action or saying that change is needed. Even the Deputy Prime Minister, in what he described as a “self-critical” mood, has stated:

“I think we’ve…realised that you actually need, in order to foster a recovery, to try and mobilise as much public and private capital into infrastructure as possible.”

He did not quite get round to saying sorry for a second time, but at least he has finally stumbled upon the problem. We said that cutting infrastructure spending too far and too fast would stifle the recovery, but the Deputy Prime Minister’s brief lapse of regret came two and a half years too late. That moment of self-realisation will not help the construction worker who has already lost his job, the children waiting for their new school or the new business waiting for improved roads. We do not need mea culpas; we need the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Deputy Prime Minister to change course.

National Assembly for Wales

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies]

It is a good idea, but that does not mean that it is about the respect agenda. I think that perhaps the idea came from this place without proper consultation and it just so happened that the Welsh Assembly Government agreed with it. Will the Minister tell us whether there was consultation on that part of the Green Paper. My understanding is that there was no consultation on any of it. Was there, in any sense, an element of the respect agenda, or was it just a blind coincidence of view?

There is also a move towards the resurgence of dual candidacy whereby somebody can stand in a first-past-the-post election and, should they fail, reappear like a vampire figure through the list mechanism and find themselves transposed into the National Assembly without a mandate, having failed to win in the first place. In other words, losers will be winners; I will be talking about Bob Dylan later.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The hon. Gentleman holds the strong view that the Green Paper was an attempt to gerrymander the political system in Wales. However, the implementation of the double jeopardy rule that prohibits people from standing in the list and in a constituency was the worst kind of gerrymandering by the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) when he was Secretary of State for Wales. Is the hon. Gentleman proud that the electoral system that we now have for the National Assembly for Wales is mirrored in only one country in the world—Ukraine?

[Geraint Davies]

It is a shame there is no one from Ukraine present to speak up for themselves—no disrespect to Ukraine, but that matter could be taken up in another place, namely Ukraine.

On double candidacy, the proposition was put in a manifesto which was voted for in an election. There was a White Paper and it went through a proper system. Of course, it is possible to disagree with something that has been properly considered and passed in a democratic way—I respect that and I am sure that we all share that view—but we are complaining about proposals that were put through in a one-sided and seemingly political way without proper collaboration with the institution that would then have to run the situation, namely the National Assembly for Wales.

Could the Minister confirm whether the boundary changes are now dead and buried in the aftermath of the vote here, particularly in the light of a Wales Office spokesperson saying that it is now not in anyone’s interests to change the boundaries as proposed by the Green Paper?

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[Geraint Davies]

The evidence certainly points in that direction. Thankfully, there are different institutions in the United Kingdom that can take forward different policies and ideas. For example, in Wales people can go to university for £3,000 a year or about £10,000 across three years, rather than pay £30,000. In this place, the Conservatives say, “It is impossible to have lower fees. Where would the money come from?” That idea and many others show that there are different ways of doing things. That is healthy for democracy.

The attempt to use the power that this place has had historically to blunt the blade of innovation in Wales is quite wrong. Unfortunately, all the evidence suggests that these changes are being proposed for party political gain.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman is being very gracious in giving way. I am sure that he will be glad to hear that Gareth Bale has just scored for Wales and that we are beating Austria 1-0.

There has been cross-party consent in Wales on creating a fairer electoral system. The Richard commission published its report in 2004 and argued for 80 Assembly Members elected by single transferable vote. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that parties across the divide, both here and in the National Assembly, should come together and look again at those proposals?

[Geraint Davies]

There is a case for having a broad debate about the best way forward. That is part of the Silk discussion and I agree with that. I am surprised that Plaid Cymru’s position is that there should be co-determination as opposed to devolution on these matters. Perhaps that is a change in its position and it is now less devolutionist than I appear to be. That is there for the record.

I will be helpful and give the Minister time to respond and to answer any questions that other Members may have. Clearly, there are more questions than answers in the aftermath of the great boundary victory—a constitutional change for which we can thank the Liberal Democrats, who are here in abundance. I can barely see the green leather, there are so many of them here tonight!

We need to move forward with effective democracy. It would help to have coterminosity of seats for Assembly Members and MPs. Obviously that could change in the future. It would be good to have stability in our relationships with constituents and for decisions increasingly to be made where they have the greatest impact.

Autumn Statement

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

That powerful point was made by the Finance Ministers of not only Germany and Sweden but some of the Baltic states. One of the tragedies of British economic management under the last Government is that we went into the crisis with a huge structural deficit. The International Monetary Fund has now assessed that Britain carried the largest structural deficit of any major western economy going into the banking crash, yet extraordinarily the shadow Chancellor goes around saying that there was no structural deficit. If we had managed our public finances like Germany, for example, we would be in better shape.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The Treasury-sponsored Silk commission recently recommended the devolution of minor taxes to the Welsh Government and a tax-sharing arrangement for income tax, partially to incentivise the Welsh Government to develop the Welsh economy. When will the Treasury publish a timetable for implementation, as well as the bilateral agreement on borrowing powers?

[Mr Osborne]

We welcome the work that the Silk commission has done. It asks some big questions about the devolution of fiscal powers to Wales. The Treasury and the Wales Office here in London are sitting down with the Welsh Assembly Government to work through the details of the proposals. I hope that the hon. Gentleman understands and accepts that we have taken a big step forward with the Silk commission and now have a text we can work on. How much we can implement will, of course, be a matter for democratic decisions in this House and in the Welsh Assembly in Cardiff.

Inward Investment (Wales)

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to welcome this report, which I was pressing for. Wales sits within the UK economy and the global marketplace, and we all need to pull together in both the Welsh and the UK Governments to provide the best opportunities for Wales in a changing environment and to give Wales the tools to do the job. I will cover the basic ground of the report and what we should be doing in Wales, including in the councils, focusing primarily, as has been said, on the UK Government’s responsibilities to present Wales as an accessible, adaptable and attractive location for inward investment in a global marketplace.

Obviously, we cannot compete on labour costs as we did in the past with China but we have electronic global market reach and clearly competitiveness is about added value and skills. Emerging markets in China, India and south America should be seen as major opportunities for emerging consumer markets of high value products, whether arts or science-led, for the Welsh economy. We should refocus our efforts in that way.

Following the global financial tsunami in 2008, Wales is particularly vulnerable, because the proportion of people in the public sector is greater, and as the Government begin to reduce the investment in public sector jobs and wages, consumer demand is disproportionately hit. We know that the root of very low or static growth in the UK is the collapse of consumer demand, which was still going up in 2010, albeit with a deficit, but the announcement of 500,000 job cuts deflated that and we are now bouncing along. The issue is to keep money going into local economies, and to target investment in the most productive area.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the big headwind in household expenditure has more to do with the huge personal debt bubble and asset bubble built up under the last Labour Government—£1.4 trillion, and 100% of GDP? That is an incredible record and far higher than any other state in the developed world. Is that not why consumer spending is collapsing?

[Geraint Davies]

I was not expecting to hear cries for austerity from Plaid Cymru, but there you go. They come from all sorts of directions.

Very briefly, you will know, Mr Bone, that between 1997 and 2008 Britain enjoyed a period of more rapid growth than had been seen since the war with paid back debt, massive growth in employment, and reductions in welfare costs. After the financial tsunami of 2008, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) and Barack Obama got the fiscal stimulus going so that we did not go into a global depression, which the hon. Gentleman seems to be calling for. In 2010, we then had a deficit, which the coalition Government inherited. Two thirds of that was due to the bankers and one third was due to excess investment above earnings to pump-prime the economy and keep it growing. The current Government then decided to focus more on cuts than growth to get the deficit down, ending up with virtually zero growth, and the deficit has been growing ever since. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman wants to cross the Floor to the Conservative side, but when history is written, it will be seen as a painful place to be.

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[Geraint Davies]

That is kind of you, Mr Bone; thank you.

I want to mention the issue of city regions. In terms of working together in a critical mass in a global marketplace, one benefit of trying to bring together the four local authorities of Swansea, Neath Port Talbot, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire, plus the universities and industry, to argue the commercial case as well as the social case for electrification of the railway to Swansea was that there was a refocusing on the common interests of that area.

I am very pleased that the Welsh Government have taken the initiative in doing a consultation on city region status and have given the go-ahead for the Swansea Bay city region to move forward. Swansea has always been seen to be, to a certain extent at least, in the shadow of Cardiff, so it is interesting to note that Cardiff itself contains about 300,000 people, but the continuous urban footprint of Neath Port Talbot and Swansea, going to Llanelli, is one of about 400,000 people —the biggest urban footprint in Wales. We can work together within that and within Carmarthenshire, haloing out to Pembrokeshire and, indeed, Ceredigion—there is not really anywhere to go beyond that. The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) is very welcome in the Swansea Bay region. I am talking about working together to have a diverse skills base. Working with the universities and the local authorities to get coherence, focus and value for money is very important.

I have already welcomed the rail electrification. It was regrettable that we had to work so hard to get the Government to agree to an extension from Cardiff to Swansea, but that was very good news. As I have said, the next thing that we want is to be able to say that we have super-connectivity.

Of course, the Swansea Bay brand has been created partly through football. The Minister will know that Swansea won 3-1 against West Brom last night. That sort of news is transmitted to 600 million people in 200 countries. That is important because the name Swansea is then known. Increasingly, people are hearing of Swansea who may not even have heard of Cardiff. That is amazing.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I just want to add to the excellent point being made by the hon. Gentleman. As colleagues know, I have just returned from my honeymoon in Cape Verde, and I actually watched the Swansea game against Liverpool live on TV in my hotel room.

[Geraint Davies]

I bet the hon. Gentleman’s wife was happy about that, with him shouting for a goal, but there we are. I wish him a long and happy marriage while watching Swansea. I thank him for that intervention, which was very welcome.

On a serious note, the Swansea brand is of course a global brand, so there is an opportunity to attach various values to it, including the fact that it is a nice family and business environment by the sea. With internet connectivity, why would people want to be in the expensive congestion of London, for instance, when they could be overlooking Swansea bay? The fact that there are sporting successes, good schools, a good health service and so on is critical to that.

I mention that point partly to move on to the regional pay issue. The Government have been considering the case for regional pay, and I will say two things about that. First, reducing the pay of people in the public services in Wales by some 20%, which is the implicit agenda, would remove even greater amounts of economic power from the consumer markets in Swansea and, again, push down the private sector; but as important or possibly more important, GPs and other public servants would think that they would be better off getting a job in Bristol, where their pay would be higher, and suddenly we would be denuded of some of the best GPs and other public servants. That would have implications for inward investors, who are being taken, for instance, from London.

Let us consider how inward investment works. UKTI promotes the UK. Someone says, “Okay, I’ll go to the UK. That sounds great in terms of stability, environment, access to Europe and everything else, but where shall I go in the UK”—that is the next decision—“and how do we have added value there?” Of course, in Wales, we have environmental opportunities. We want to increase accessibility, skills and research and development. However, if the families going there suddenly do not have the right GP or education services because of wage deflation in Wales, that will be very bad for inward investment.

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[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Bone, to serve under the chairmanship of the star strike bowler of the parliamentary cricket team. I had not intended to speak, so I will keep my speech brief. I will be probably more disjointed than I usually am in my parliamentary contributions.

The report is hugely important—I congratulate the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee—and has been well-received, especially by the Welsh media, who gave it significant coverage. As we know, economic growth is driven by four interconnected factors, the first of which is household expenditure, which accounts for 62% of GDP growth in the UK. That is perhaps testament to overdependence on that specific component during the Labour years. The second factor is Government expenditure. We are witnessing more than £80 billion of cuts during the current comprehensive spending review, which is a major head wind for the course of the British state. The third and fourth factors are exports and business investment, in which foreign direct investment—FDI—plays a huge part. The report was very timely.

At one time, Wales was a world leader, or definitely a leader within the UK, in generating FDI. Behind my family home in Capel Hendre is an enormous industrial estate, with companies from Korea, Japan, the US and, indeed, all over the world, which is testament to its success. There have been concerns that we are over-reliant on foreign direct investment and not sufficiently promoting indigenous businesses, but there is now growing agreement that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Unfortunately, Wales is now among the worse-performing constituent parts of the UK in terms of FDI.

We are living in an age of reductions in Government expenditure and of contraction in household expenditure. Recently, the consumer confidence index was at minus 30 —the lowest it has ever been—showing the huge economic head winds that are being faced. The hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) wanted to appoint me as an exponent of austerity, but I assure him that I do not support the experiment of cutting Government expenditure. That policy was set by the Chancellor, so concentrating on the promotion of FDI in Wales is key to our economic well-being, and it is the one element that can help to stimulate the other two components—business investment and exports.

I want to highlight some of the report’s important recommendations. First, we need to work closely with UK Trade and Investment to help promote Wales as a destination for FDI, and I agree with comments made by Members from all parts of the Chamber. I welcome the announcement, following our report, that UKTI has based an official in Wales. We were the only component part of the United Kingdom not to have such a representative, so I am glad that that has been rectified.

I want the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to instruct UKTI to pursue a similar path to Germany Trade and Invest, which has a remit to set specific targets for directing investment to the poorest parts of the state. That policy does not exist in the UK, but it would help to drive FDI into those areas, such as Wales, that are underperforming. Indeed, we could learn a lot from the example of German economic policy, which has enabled Germany to address huge wealth inequalities following reunification. It is incredible that, following 50 or 60 years of communism, its wealth levels are far more equal than the UK’s, but I shall not go down that road.

The signature recommendation in the report and the one most trailed in the press was the need to reuse the Welsh Development Agency brand. As a Plaid Cymru politician, I should take some credit for the original creation of the WDA, because it was the Plaid Cymru economic commission in the 1960s and 1970s—under Dafydd Wigley, Phil Williams and Eurfyl ap Gwilym—that first had the idea of the dedicated economic investment arm that later morphed into the WDA. I am not talking about reconstituting the WDA as it was when it was swallowed by the Welsh Government, but about reusing the brand. It is a global brand that, to this day, everybody recognises. The reality is that the successor bodies set up by the Welsh Government have nothing near the recognition of the WDA, so I want them urgently to reuse the brand.

[Paul Flynn]

I admire the skill of the Select Committee in choosing a day for this debate when there is no other subject to distract the media. One abiding impression of the report is that it is part of the begging bowl psychology in which we have one dominant partner in a relationship with another subservient partner, and we know which one is which. As it has come from the party, would not a more accurate title for this report have been, “One Hundred Shades of Blue”?

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[Jonathan Edwards]

As always, the hon. Gentleman makes a fantastic contribution.

When I close my remarks, I should like to talk about recent announcements in relation to the Silk report and borrowing powers, but before I get to that point, let me just say that another important element of this report was the need to use convergence funding appropriately. Wales is a net recipient of EU funds, and I am wary of some of the discussions under way at the moment about real-term cuts in British contributions to the EU pot and in the EU expenditure pot, because that will have a direct impact on cohesion funding for some of the poorest communities in our country.

Finally, one of the key elements of the report relates to transport. Wales is at the heart of one of the major trading routes within the European Union. We export more to the Republic of Ireland than we do to all the BRIC countries put together, so Wales is not some sort of marginal geographical location; we are at the centre of one of those trading routes.

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[Jonathan Edwards]

Diolch yn fawr, Mr Rosindell. First, may I apologise to Members for rudely interrupting proceedings to perform my telling duties in the series of close votes we have just had in the main Chamber?

Before the Divisions, I was remarking on the importance of transport links, which is clearly emphasised in the report. Wales is located at the centre of one of the most important trading routes in the European Union, so it is vital, with the ongoing negotiations among our partners at a European level, that there is at least a southern link running through south Wales and linking the Republic of Ireland with Britain and Europe. Personally, I would also like to see a northern link going through north Wales, which would then fund the improvement of transport infrastructure there. I welcome the fact that the Government are actively looking at that, and I am glad to put that on the record.

I want to touch briefly on the bilateral negotiations on funding for the Welsh Government and on the recent Silk commission, which reported as I left on my honeymoon. Both those things impact directly on the Committee’s report. First, on the bilateral negotiations, I was disappointed that there was no reform of the block grant; there was not even a Barnett floor, let alone reform of the housing revenue account subsidy scheme. On the borrowing powers that were announced, the reality is that we could not buy a packet of crisps using the current powers. The Welsh Government Finance Minister has been completely outfoxed, yet again, by the Treasury.

The conclusions of the bilateral negotiations might, however, come into play if the recommendations of the Silk commission are implemented, so their full implementation could be of value. To access the borrowing powers announced in the bilateral agreement, we need fiscal levers to raise revenue, so the more tax-sharing arrangements there are between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, the better. That is why it is imperative that we do not stick just to the minor taxes preferred by the Welsh Government—stamp duty, the aggregates levy and the long-haul airport tax—but devolve sharing arrangements for income tax, which would enable the Welsh Government to have far greater leverage in terms of their borrowing powers. Given that their capital budgets are being cut by 42%, they need those borrowing powers, not only so that they can level out peaks and troughs using fiscal levers, but so that they have power to invest. The current position of the First Minister is therefore completely bizarre, and it is a huge let-down to the people of Wales.

Fiscal powers are important with regard to political accountability, which is something that finds favour with Conservative Members, but the main reason we should have fiscal powers is that they would incentivise the Welsh Government to turn the Welsh economy around. At the moment, given that they get a block grant, there is no incentive for them to develop it. If they were responsible for raising their own revenue, there would be an incentive to generate wealth to invest in public services.

[Geraint Davies]

Is the hon. Gentleman’s position that Wales should have devolved power over income tax, and that a proportion of that could be used as a revenue stream to pay back borrowing, but that Wales should not use tolls to pay back borrowing which, as I said, is a tax on inward investment and trade?

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman has a long-standing position on this. He has explained my position on the importance of the devolution of income tax quite adequately. The reality is that if we devolved an income tax-sharing arrangement, we would, even if we did not change the level, have huge leverage to borrow far more. Personally, I would like the Welsh Government to have responsibility for setting tax bands, but the reality is that we are nowhere near getting into that debate.

On the tolls, I would like the Welsh Government to have responsibility for the Severn bridges, because they are the major access route to the south Wales economy. There would be a leverage potential on the revenue, but that is not my primary reason for supporting this. I would like the Welsh Government to have responsibility for the tolls and to set them at a rate that would enable them, on top of maintaining the bridges, to have money to reinvest in wider Welsh infrastructure, but that rate would be far lower than at present.

I look forward to next week’s autumn statement, and plenty of progress on the bilateral negotiations and the Silk commission.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), the Chair of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, on securing this important debate, and on the work that he and the Committee have carried out on the inquiry into inward investment in Wales.

I agree with the Committee Chairman’s grave disappointment that the debate clashes with the statement on Leveson, and I hope that the topics that we are discussing will be revisited, as they are important. The hon. Gentleman reiterated eloquently the arguments that he has made in the past, together with my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) and others, about the Severn bridge and the importance of Government transparency in that respect. There was a little bit of the knockabout partisan stuff that I do not much like; but there were social democratic tinges to the speech too—and I dare the hon. Gentleman to put that on his website. The point that it would not be desirable to compete with China on labour costs was a good start, as was the fact that he mentioned the importance of education and Government-funded infrastructure and transport. He is developing a bit more of a social democratic tinge, and that is to be welcomed.

My hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) made an eloquent and wide-ranging speech about, among other things, the importance of electronic global market reach; economic growth under the previous Labour Government of the United Kingdom; the pitfalls of regional pay and the tragic situation of Tata steel, with the related unemployment. He also spoke eloquently about the Welsh brand and tourism, and the importance of the Dylan Thomas festival, which I too welcome.

The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) spoke about emerging economies and made an important point about links with universities, and working in partnership with them. I also want to add a plug for Glyndwr university, and its links to Airbus. He also spoke about the importance of tourism, and we would all welcome the fact that that is now a priority sector for the Welsh Government, and for all of us. He discussed the fact that it is important for Wales to work alongside UKTI, and the importance of infrastructure and rural broadband.

The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) was, again, a bit partisan, but I suppose that is his job, really. It was nice to see him back all suntanned from his honeymoon, and I do not want to be too partisan on this occasion. I am sure it is good to see him back with us. However, I want to make one small partisan point. The hon. Gentleman spoke of the importance of promoting Wales and of openness about how that is done, and mentioned foreign direct investment and changed attitudes to it. The tiny point I want to make is that I seem to remember the main opposition to that in the 1980s—it might have been in the ’70s too, but I am too young to remember—tended to come from the Welsh nationalists. As for the discussions on funding arrangements, Silk and the like, I am sure that we shall have that debate. I hope that it will be on the Floor of the House, where it deserves to be.

I shall try to be relatively brief, because I know that there are one or two other matters that hon. Members would like to participate in today. As the Government response to the inquiry says, the Committee’s report is comprehensive and wide-ranging. I will not respond to every one of the recommendations, but I hope to touch on the key themes. I want first to talk briefly about why inward investment is so crucial to the Welsh economy.

At the moment, at the aggregated UK level, it is difficult to see where a potential source of significant future economic growth lies, given the austerity agenda being pursued by the UK Government. Despite an Olympic-driven injection of 1% growth in the last quarter, yesterday’s—albeit slight—downward revision of previous quarters’ figures is a reminder that the Government’s economic policies have massively under-achieved. Two years ago, the Chancellor forecast growth of 4.6% but, in reality, in that time, the UK economy has grown by 0.5%. None of us can rejoice at that. Tellingly, the economy is the same size now as it was a year ago and it remains more than 3% below its pre-global financial crisis peak. The reason is clear to the Opposition: it is that Government spending is being cut too far and too fast, and household spending is being squeezed by the increased cost of living, thanks largely to the Government’s decision to increase VAT, as well as the impact of high inflation and rising energy bills.

With consumption—which accounts for around two thirds of the quarterly GDP figures—being held back, we need significant levels of investment if there is to be growth in the economy. However, the Office for Budget Responsibility has slashed its forecasts for growth in business investment over the past two years. They are down this year to a predicted 0.7%, which is a huge drop from the 8.6% predicted two years ago. We all hope that when the Chancellor gives his autumn statement next week he will give a far brighter forecast for growth in business investment for the years to come, because, with more than 700 international companies having located in Wales over the past forty years, the securing of inward investment is vital for Wales’s prosperity. I believe that the Welsh Government are acutely aware of that. In 2011-12, foreign direct investment into Wales created and safeguarded 3,706 jobs, which represents an increase of almost 5% on the previous year. For Ministers in the Welsh Government, who have had real-terms cuts to their capital budget of more than 40% imposed on them, but who are none the less tasked with offsetting the economic damage, the promotion of inward investment to Wales provides a vital economic lever.

The Committee’s report rightly acknowledges that it is down to both Governments to work together to boost inward investment, but it is also right to say that the Welsh Government’s role is pivotal. Hon. Members will know that only this week the Welsh Government presented their budget for 2013-14—a budget for jobs and growth, which reflects an unwavering commitment to attracting investment to Wales as a means of boosting the Welsh economy.

The Committee focused its investigation on three key areas that are central to inward investment, and in those vital areas highlighted by the inquiry the Welsh Government have already put in place policies that will boost inward investment. I am sure that hon. Members will welcome the fact that Ministers in Cardiff Bay have also found additional funding in those areas, as revealed in this week’s budget announcement. The areas in question, recognised by both the Welsh Government and the Committee’s inquiry, are infrastructure, promoting Wales abroad, and education and research and development.

The ambitious Wales infrastructure plan will invest about £15 billion over the next decade in capital priorities. It sets out a sectoral and targeted approach to infrastructure investment that will help to create a Wales with modern transport, IT and energy networks. It outlines for the first time in Wales a list of existing schemes that are being delivered now and schemes that are in the pipeline to be delivered but have not yet started. That approach will enable the private sector to ensure that it is well placed and adequately skilled and resourced to support the infrastructure delivery that Wales needs over the next decade. The plan also features opportunities to lever in additional funds to finance infrastructure delivery, and in this week’s final budget announcement the Finance Minister Jane Hutt revealed additional capital investment of nearly £50 million to support the plan further. The plan exemplifies the Welsh Government’s vision for attracting sustainable economic growth in Wales and should be welcomed by Members on both sides.

Of course, another massive boost to Wales’ infrastructure—and, we all hope, also to long-term levels of inward investment in Wales—is the confirmation we had in July that rail electrification to Swansea and the south Wales valleys is to go ahead. Agreement for this £350 million direct investment is a good example of the two Governments working together in the best interests of Wales. In the context of austerity measures at UK level, it is a remarkable achievement.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Lady mentioned that it was important to increase investment in infrastructure and we agree with that. The UK Government have announced an infrastructure investment plan of £30 billion, comprising £5 billion from public funds and £25 billion to be financed—different from funding—from the private sector. The Welsh Government get a Barnett consequential on the £5 billion, but not on the £25 billion. Can the hon. Lady explain what mechanisms the Welsh Government have put in place to access that £25 billion of potential investment finance?

[Susan Elan Jones]

I will be honest with the hon. Gentleman. I am not able to give him the total details and I am not prepared to flaff and speak generally, but we will provide him with an answer.

This budget will bolster Wales’s economic competitiveness, generate jobs, increase mobility and, in the context of today’s debate, strengthen Wales’s bid for future inward investment.

Another way that the Welsh Government are going about improving transport infrastructure is by continuing to forge a close relationship with Cardiff airport. Ministers are determined to work towards modernising the airport and increasing its connectivity.

The second of our Committee’s central issues is Wales’s international standing and efforts by the Welsh Government to promote Wales abroad. Since the Committee’s inquiries, there have been significant developments on this front, which I am sure that hon. Members from all parties will welcome. In July, for example, the Welsh Government officially opened their new London headquarters, based on Victoria street, focusing specifically on promoting Wales to the world, attracting greater inward investment and boosting international trade. I welcome the fact that the office will be home to permanent staff with inward investment a large part of their remit. As our First Minister, Carwyn Jones, said when unveiling the new office,

“it will create an important base for the Welsh Government, and businesses from Wales, to influence decision-makers in the foremost financial and commercial centre in the world.”

Since then, the First Minister has also revealed plans to co-locate Welsh Government staff with UKTI, to forge an even closer relationship with staff there, which is most important, and to maximise their vital contacts and resources. At the same time, the Welsh Government have placed important emphasis on trade delegations, including recently welcoming a delegation from India, led by the country’s high commission, as well as two delegations from China in September. Just two weeks ago, the Welsh Government supported their largest ever delegation to an international trade event.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. UKTI is the agency that is best placed, given its network of relationships around the world, personnel, expertise and acquired knowledge. The challenge is for Welsh Government initiatives to dovetail with what UKTI is doing to ensure that we leverage the maximum opportunity from the available resource.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The UK Government, to be fair, have the laudable aim of rebalancing the economy geographically and sectorally. I know of one of their initiatives—the national insurance holidays for new employees—but what other measures are the UK Government intending to introduce to rebalance the UK economy geographically? The reality is that the UK—the British state—is the most unequal state in the whole of the European Union.

[Stephen Crabb]

With the significant action of the UK Government to rebalance the economy geographically, we recognise the specific needs of peripheral areas, of which Wales is one. We recognise the extra assistance that Wales needs, which is exactly what is driving the additional investment that the UK Government are giving to the Welsh Government for broadband roll-out, for example, or the rail electrification projects that we talked about. Those are big capital investments, over and above funding through the Barnett formula, about which the hon. Gentleman likes to speak a lot. That demonstrates the UK Government’s real commitment for Wales to receive a greater-than-proportionate share of capital investment, which reflects the fact that we want to see the economy geographically rebalanced. Our ambition is for Wales to share the benefits of all the UK-side measures we are taking, while also showing that Wales is a great place to invest.

The Committee’s excellent report and today’s debate highlight the importance of attracting inward investment with regard to transport infrastructure, skills and promoting Wales abroad as a brand. The Government are delivering for Wales in all those areas. On transport infrastructure, we have discussed the electrification project on the Great Western main line, but it does not stop there. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) asked about the potential electrification of the north Wales line, which we are actively looking at. We want the business community in north Wales to help to work up the economic case for electrification, and hon. Members should be aware that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales hosted an important strategic meeting of business bodies, local government and public agencies in north Wales last Friday. They got their heads around the table to think seriously about how we go about building up the economic case that will hopefully convince the Treasury that north Wales electrification is the right next project for railway infrastructure in Wales.

Further investment in Wales will not come from the Government alone. We need to find ways to accelerate major infrastructure investment further, and I hope to see Welsh projects bidding for and benefiting from the £50 billion UK guarantees scheme that we introduced.

In the important area of skills, it is vital that we do all that we can to enhance the skills of the work force in Wales. Wales has a lot to offer, but further up-skilling of the work force will not only attract more inward investment, but support indigenous business. It is excellent that the big companies in Wales such as Airbus continue to run their effective apprenticeship programmes, and the UK Government certainly put a lot of emphasis on increasing the number of apprenticeships. Welsh Government Ministers are also looking at the importance of apprenticeships in Wales.

Higher education institutions in Wales have a world-class track record, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ceredigion touched on in his important contribution, and the reputation of the Welsh HE sector is recognised around the world. Members might be aware that, in Wales, there is a higher proportion of foreign students among the total number of students than in Scotland or in England. Our higher education institutions are also working with several of our major inward investors. I very much welcome the news that Swansea university will team up with BP and Tata Steel to create an energy safety research institute, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies). Tata Steel is also working in partnership with a number of other Welsh universities to develop a project supported by the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council and the Technology Strategy Board.

Income Tax

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

We are hoping that Government Members will see sense and vote for the motion, and that the Chancellor will rethink his decision in next week’s autumn statement. It is not too late to reverse this change. I am not going to write the manifesto for 2015 now, but every single Labour MP will be voting against this tax change, which has not yet come into effect, so the Government can still think again.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Can the hon. Lady explain why only two Labour Members—the hon. Members for Newport West (Paul Flynn) and for Bolsover (Mr Skinner)—voted against the rise after the Budget statement in March?

[Rachel Reeves]

We have already debated this; when we debated the Finance Bill, Labour MPs voted against the cut in the top rate from 50p to 45p, as the hon. Gentleman is aware.

Let us look at the facts. There are 30 million taxpayers in the UK—30 million people who go out to work each day and pay their tax—yet the Chancellor’s tax cut helps only the richest 300,000, of whom 8,000 take home more than £1 million a year. According to table 2.5 on page 30 of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs’ income tax liabilities statistics of April this year, their total income in 2012-13 is expected to be £18.4 billion, and they will pay £8.6 billion of tax on that income at the 50p rate. From next April, when the additional rate is lowered to 45p, they will pay £7.7 billion of tax on that income. This represents £860 million of lost revenue because of a tax cut for people earning over £1 million, and an average tax giveaway of £107,000 to each and every one of them—not just in one year but in each year to come.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

The hon. Gentleman tempts me down that route, but we have an autumn statement next week on that matter, when we will hear the OBR numbers.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Obviously, my party does not agree with this measure and voted against it following the Budget statement, but, if the Treasury intends to pursue this line of argument, when will it drop the rate to 40p?

[Mr Gauke]

I admire the hon. Gentleman’s ambition. To be fair, he did not make this point, but, when Labour voted on this matter in the Finance Bill debates, effectively they would have got us to a 40p rate—but there we go. It was HMRC’s assessment that a reduction from 50p to 45p would be relatively inexpensive, and, given the damage the 50p rate was doing to our competitiveness, we believed it would be well worth doing. Of course, all taxes are under review, but the 45p rate remains in place.

Beer Duty Escalator

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Was the hon. Lady as surprised as I was to learn that beer tax in the UK is 13 times higher than in Germany?

[Sandra Osborne]

I am not really surprised: I am well aware of it, and I was going to make a similar comment. I know that this will be of concern to many Members.

In their first Budget after the 2010 general election, as hon. Members will be aware, the coalition Government launched a review of the taxing and pricing of alcohol, including the beer duty escalator, which was first introduced by the former Labour Government in 2008. The coalition’s aim was to ensure that it

“tackled binge drinking without unfairly penalising responsible drinkers, pubs and important local industries.”

If the views expressed so far are anything to go by, we would all agree that that is simply not working. I am aware that the Government have stated that they intend to keep the escalator in place until 2014-15, although Treasury forecasts have shown that no additional revenue will be generated from beer duty, despite the increases of 2% above inflation planned in forthcoming Budgets over the next two years. The Government are not even going to make any money out of it. The planned 2% rise above inflation, equating to a 5% price increase, came into effect from 1 April 2012.

The Campaign for Real Ale, which has 450 members in my constituency alone, and the British Beer and Pub Association have criticised the decision not to abolish the escalator in the Budget, claiming that the increase could cost thousands of jobs. CAMRA has also expressed concern about the impact of the escalator on the industry, stating that a third of the cost of a pint of beer goes to the Exchequer—as was said earlier, that is the second highest rate of duty in the EU—while 16 pubs now close in the UK every week. The Government need to recognise the harm this is doing to brewers as well as to community pubs.

Since the escalator was first introduced, beer sales in pubs and clubs have fallen by 23%, leading to more than 6,000 pubs closing. Since that time, so much has changed: inflation has risen, VAT has increased, brewing costs have risen and household incomes have fallen. According to the Beer and Pub Association, beer taxation now costs the average pub around £66,000 a year. As other Members have stated, this is having a terrible impact on towns already suffering from the current economic situation, as more people are purchasing alcohol from supermarkets, which is competitively priced, to drink within their homes rather than having a social drink in their local pub. I am aware that the most common complaint received by the local licensing department in my constituency is about the threat posed to the local pub trade by the volume of cheap sales of alcohol by supermarkets.

Given that beer and pubs support almost a million jobs in the UK and that 48% of pub employees are under 25, the Beer and Pub Association has stated that if the escalator is removed, the industry has a real capacity to create jobs, raise more for the Exchequer and contribute to growth.

Multiannual Financial Framework

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 31st October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Will the shadow Minister confirm that, if the aims of the amendment are implemented, there will be a reduction in payments for Welsh farmers, and a reduction in convergence funding for some of the poorest communities in the EU, such as the one I represent?

[Chris Leslie]

No, that is not necessarily the case. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman has heard from Government Members or whether they have been trying to persuade him not to vote for the amendment, but my point, which other hon. Members will no doubt make during the debate, is that there is plenty of scope for savings within the EU budget. We need to prioritise jobs, growth and support for economies, but there are plenty of other ways in which we could make savings.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

This debate comes at a very particular time in the economic situation in Europe. The debate on this multiannual round did not start a week or a year ago; it started three or four years ago, and it is vital that we give a clear message to the European Union, the Commission and the other member states that, however ludicrously pro-European we might be—as is the case with me—we do not believe that the European Union and the Commission should spend more money at a time when every member state is having to make cuts.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Chris Bryant]

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not. A lot of people want to take part in the debate. Perhaps he will catch Mr Speaker’s eye later.

Mr Barroso, in his introduction to the original version of the Commission’s suggestions, said:

“The European budget is the instrument for investment in Europe and growth in Europe.”

That is arrogance of the highest degree. It might be one instrument—a tiny part of the equation that is trying to refocus Europe towards a more competitive economy that is able to fight for jobs and added value against countries such as Russia, China and Mexico—but the biggest instruments must surely be the member states, or even the nations and regions within them. For instance, the factor that will make a difference to the resolution of Spain’s problems will almost certainly be the economic future of Catalunya and whether it invests in IT and future industries. It will not be the EU budget.

I am also convinced that, whatever happens to the EU budget, it will not make a dramatic difference to solving the problems in Greece or in Spain. The issues in those two countries are completely different. In Spain, for instance, the sub-prime mortgage market and the way in which houses were constructed along the coast, often for the British ex-pat market, is the single biggest problem that is dragging down the Spanish economy. So I say to Mr Barroso that, although I am ardently pro-European and I believe that the European Union has been one of the great political success stories of the past 100 years, I do not believe that the EU budget is the way to resolve the problems of those countries.

Government Members have been talking today about the small-ticket items in the EU’s expenditure. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury held rather different views from those he holds today when he was a member of the Social Democratic party. When I was a member of the Conservative party, I held exactly the same views on Europe as those I hold today. The sadness is that the Conservative party has abandoned its past.

UK and Welsh Governments (Finance)

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 11th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Leigh. I welcome the new Minister at the Wales Office to his place. His role recently has perforce been one surrounded by a deep silence. I consulted the online Hansard and apparently his last contribution was in the Christmas Adjournment debate of 2010—some time ago. Many hon. Members, not least from Wales, will be looking forward to that silence being broken. I am glad of this early opportunity to question him on a crucial issue for Wales and I am determined to allow him plenty of time to answer. I am sure that hon. Members who are here today and take an interest in the issue will understand that, as this is a short debate, I will take only a few interventions.

My purpose in applying for the debate could not be simpler. I want to know what is going on. I want to hear evidence of progress towards fair funding for Wales. Neither I nor the people of Wales can wait until the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s misguided policies are conclusively proved to be a failure for funding for Wales to be reformed. This is not a back-burner issue. There is and has been for a very long time a pressing case for reform. It would be worth hundreds of millions of pounds to the people of Wales and would provide part of the springboard—part of the power—that we need to bring Wales out of this deepest of recessions.

The previous Secretary of State for Wales set up a twin-track approach to deal with developing constitutional issues. On the one hand, we have the Silk commission, which has two parts, the first primarily considering taxation issues and the second examining the wider devolution settlement. A great deal of effort was put in to ensure that the commission has cross-party support and cross-party membership. Participants are drawn from the Tory party, the Liberal Democrats, the Labour party and Plaid Cymru. It also has independent members. Plaid Cymru is represented by that fearsome Paxman baiter, Dr Eurfyl ap Gwilym. To my mind, he should be stirring things up in another place, but I will not pursue that line of thought now. With the Silk commission, meetings are advertised, communiqués are posted and consultation takes place. According to its website, the report on part I of its work will be out this autumn and the report on part II in 2013, although the former Secretary of State announced that that might be delayed until 2014. We shall see.

On the other hand, there are bilateral discussions between the Welsh and the UK Governments to discuss financial matters. Participants in those discussions are drawn from the Tory party, the Liberal Democrats and the Labour party, so not all parties in Wales are involved—Plaid Cymru is not involved. I well understand that they are Government-to-Government discussions. I am no more paranoid than any other MP; this is not a case of paranoia or lack of understanding on my part. The point is that, unlike the Silk commission, those discussions are simply not open to all and not transparent.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on gaining this debate and the Under-Secretary on his appointment. My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. We have the two processes of the bilateral discussions between the Governments and the Silk commission. My understanding is that the commissioners have some contact in terms of how those discussions between the two Governments are proceeding, but surely it is very difficult for them to put together a comprehensive package unless the cloak of secrecy surrounding the intergovernmental discussions is lifted.

[Hywel Williams]

My hon. Friend makes a very pertinent point. The question was asked of me in preparation for this debate whether one set of discussions needed to be concluded before the other set of discussions could be concluded. Do we not need to wait until the questions about responsibility are decided before we decide what the financial settlement is? My hon. Friend makes a very good point. What I am looking for in this debate is some answers from the Minister, who perhaps can enlighten us. My understanding is that, with the intergovernmental discussions, no communiqués are issued. Ministerial statements have lacked detail. Freedom of information requests have been refused or severely curtailed. Written questions have produced stonewalling answers. There is little information in the public domain and there is no schedule for reporting as there is with the Silk commission.

Therefore, as I said, my aim in today’s debate is simply to obtain some information on who is involved in the meetings, what is happening, what progress they have made, when they will conclude and how they will be reported. The debate is an opportunity for the Government and, indirectly, their interlocutor in Wales to report back to the Welsh people in their favourite forum—Parliament here in London—so here is an open goal for the new Minister.

Let me set out the headings of the matters that I would like the Minister to address. The primary aim of the discussions, as I understand them, is to consider the conclusions reached by the Holtham commission about the block funding grant for Wales—the so-called and now much-criticised Barnett formula. I say “now much-criticised”, as the Barnett formula had no stauncher defenders than members of the previous Administration, who repeatedly referred to it as

“a good deal for Wales”—

that is, until they were no longer in government. Then it was all awful.

The Holtham commission, as we well know, found that the Barnett formula was “not fit for purpose”. There was agreement with that in a variety of other reports issued at the same time from the House of Lords, the House of Commons and the Calman commission and in discourse between political parties and the various parts of Welsh civil society. That is because Barnett is unrelated to the relative needs of each of the devolved Administrations. Instead, it depends on the spending decisions made by individual Departments in England, so the amount of money spent in Wales depends on the amount spent in England. More than that, the formula is intended to converge with the English average, irrespective of whether that helps the people of Wales. That was the initial intention at least—a converging formula.

The amount of money that we get is decided not according to our needs, but according to the formula; and the gap between the amount of money that we need and the amount available is growing. The Holtham commission estimated, conservatively, that there was a gap of about £400 million between the amount of funding that Wales receives and its relative needs. However, those figures are now several years out of date, as well as being based on spending estimates rather than the final budget. More recent estimates by our colleague, Dr Eurfyl ap Gwilym, suggest that the difference in 2010-11 could have been as high as £680 million, not £400 million.

My worry, therefore, as far as the discussions are concerned, is that if we accept the much-touted suggestion of a Barnett floor to prevent further convergence, we will lock ourselves into the existing inequality. The Barnett floor might actually become a Barnett ceiling. The question for us today and for the people of Wales is at what level that might be set. Would it be at 112% of need, 113% or 114%, as Holtham suggested? The answers to those questions are crucial.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb)]

I thank the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) for his kind comments about my appointment. I am sorry, or perhaps glad, that he missed my rather embattled response to a debate on unemployment in north-east England when I stood in for a Minister recently. The hon. Gentleman rightly referred to the near total silence in which I have been working as a Government Whip over the past two years or so. I pay tribute to him. He and I served together on the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs in the previous Parliament. I always appreciated the intelligent and sensitive approach that he brought to all the issues we looked at, which he has again demonstrated in the manner he has approached the topic today.

We have an opportunity before us to provide a timely update to Members on the progress of the intergovernmental talks on funding reform. In July last year, the Secretary of State for Wales informed the House in a ministerial statement of the Government’s plans to establish the Commission on Devolution in Wales—now commonly known as the Silk commission. It was established in October 2011, fulfilling a commitment in our programme for government to establish a process for the National Assembly similar to the Calman commission.

As hon. Members from Wales know, the commission is looking at the case for devolving fiscal powers to the Assembly and the Welsh Government, to improve the financial accountability of the devolved institutions in Wales. The Government will consider the commission’s recommendations carefully when it publishes its part 1 report in, I hope, late autumn.

The Secretary of State’s July statement also made clear the Government’s commitment to consider all aspects of the Holtham commission’s reports and to continue discussions with the Welsh Government on Holtham’s funding reform proposals for Wales. The talks will also cover the operation of the Welsh Government’s existing borrowing powers. The aim of the intergovernmental talks has been to explore and test the conclusions reached in the Holtham report in respect of Welsh funding, to look at what the trends in funding have been and are likely to be, and to consider the extent to which there has been convergence between the Welsh block grant and relative funding in England. The hon. Gentleman drew attention to the difficult issue of convergence, which has been at the heart of what the two Governments have been discussing.

The talks have also explored previous studies carried out on Welsh needs. The hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) talked about a cloak of secrecy; there has been no cloak of secrecy around the talks. They have been conducted on exactly the normal basis that one would expect intergovernmental talks to be conducted on. They have been going on for about 12 months and have been conducted in a positive way. The two Governments have worked closely and collaboratively as the talks have progressed. As one would expect, they have involved the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Secretary of State for Wales. Together, they have had a productive and positive dialogue with Welsh Government Ministers, and, in particular, the Welsh Minister for Finance. Those meetings between Ministers have been supported by meetings between officials. Officials from the Welsh Government have met on an almost monthly basis with officials from the Wales Office to carry forward the discussions, analyse the evidence and determine the funding trends.

I am pleased to tell the hon. Member for Arfon and the House that the talks are now reaching a conclusion. I hope that hon. Members will appreciate that, although the talks are in their final stages, I am not able today to give a detailed statement as to what the outcome will be. I am confident that we will be in a position to make an announcement in the near future on the outcome. I hope that the hon. Gentleman is made positive and optimistic by my confidence, and that he will recognise that the outcome will benefit Wales, and be good for Wales and the United Kingdom as a whole.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I appreciate that the Minister does not want to disclose the outcome of the discussions. We understand that we are most likely to see the introduction of a Barnett floor. My hon. Friend talked about that floor being based on the Holtham estimates, which go back four or five years. The key question we want answered is whether there has been any reassessment of those estimates in terms of coming to a conclusion on the Barnett floor. If there has not been, and the situation has worsened—and we believe it has—that floor would end up becoming a Barnett ceiling. That outcome would be disastrous. To be perfectly honest, given the record of the Finance Minister in the Welsh Government, we are concerned that Treasury Ministers will be running rings round her.

[Stephen Crabb]

Tempted though I might be to be drawn into discussing what might be in the final statement, I will not do so. On what the Holtham report said about the financial position of Wales, the hon. Gentleman mentioned his party’s belief. There are a lot of beliefs about the position. Big assumptions are made in the report about Wales’s funding situation. Not all of those beliefs and assumptions are shared by the UK Government.

Over the past 12 months the two Governments have together been exploring the issues in detail. The hon. Member for Arfon went into a little detail about the Barnett formula, and its weakness. I caution him about claiming that the current system always delivers an unfair outcome for Wales. The spending settlement for Wales in the 2010 spending review was fair in a difficult economic climate. It represented a 7.5% reduction in the Welsh Government’s resource budget—an average cut of less than 2% a year. We recognise that there are challenges in that, but it is significantly less than the 3% a year cut that the Welsh Government had previously planned for. In addition, the Government have provided almost an additional £500 million since the spending review for the Welsh Government to use in any way they want.

In our programme for government we recognised the concerns expressed by the Holtham commission, but our priority was and is to stabilise the public finances. Plaid Cymru’s perspective may differ from the Government’s, in not recognising the necessity of the UK fiscal framework, but that is the context in which we are operating. Reform of the Barnett formula cannot take place in the current environment. It should be borne in mind that comprehensive reform, as my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) so eloquently said, would have huge implications not just for Wales but for all parts of the United Kingdom. That is why the intergovernmental talks between the UK and Welsh Governments have not looked at replacing the Barnett formula, or at the pros and cons of alternative systems.

Finance Bill

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Catherine McKinnell]

I will speak to new clauses 10 and 12, as well as the Government amendments that the Minister has already set out for us in quite some detail today.

The Opposition’s new clause 10 seeks to put a stop to the chaotic farce of ill-thought-through VAT changes being slapped on items from the pasty to the caravan, from haircuts to church alterations—imposed, defended, downgraded and then, in some cases, eventually quietly removed by Ministers during the parliamentary recess, once they realised quite how ridiculous the changes were to begin with, particularly given the current economic climate. We simply ask the Government not to meddle with VAT exemptions until they have carried out a proper assessment and worked out exactly what the impact of any change would be on jobs, living standards and businesses.

We assume that, before imposing a 20% tax, the Government will do their sums, work out who would be affected, consult them and think long and hard about whether such a change was a good idea. Our new clause 12 seeks to reverse the VAT bombshell, which, as I am sure many Members will recall, the Liberal Democrats shouted so loudly about before the election, and before they all subsequently discovered that they actually supported raising the 20% rate after all. That was a surprise all around, even to themselves, I think. In fact, everyone’s surprise about that was surpassed only by the discovery that the Liberal Democrats had also been in favour of £9,000 tuition fees all along.

Labour is clear that higher VAT hits the poor harder than the rich. It drives up the cost of living at a time when people are already feeling the squeeze, and it takes money out of people’s pockets and off the high street at a time when businesses are crying out for spending to drive growth. Our five-point plan for jobs and growth calls for VAT to return to 17.5% on a temporary basis until the economy is strong enough to cope with a rise. That would give £450 a year back to couples with children, to give the economy a boost and to drive growth.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The hon. Lady will of course recall that we had this exact same debate during last year’s Finance Bill, and when the House divided on a Plaid Cymru-Scottish National party motion her party abstained. Can she explain her party’s damascene conversion in tabling the same amendment to this year’s Finance Bill?

[Catherine McKinnell]

Can the hon. Gentleman clarify whether he is talking about the debate that we had on raising VAT from 17.5 to 20%, because that is what we are addressing today?

[Jonathan Edwards]

An amendment last year sought to do exactly what the measure she is arguing in favour of would do. That was presented to the House by Plaid Cymru and the SNP, and the Labour party abstained.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. I do not have the full details of the intricacies of that particular debate, but I know that what I am proposing is our policy and we support it. We are going to vote today for this measure to reduce VAT to 17.5%.

Finance Bill

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

This morning, I was indeed speaking in my constituency capacity about my wish that our regional economy will not be left in the sidings. The same is true of our national economy. We must ensure that Britain remains competitive. Our actions, which are part of a credible national plan, have kept Britain safe from the global turmoil around us. It is within that plan that we have listened and acted.

New clause 1 will defer the fuel duty increase that was planned on 1 August this year to 1 January 2013. As the Chancellor said last week, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) has noted, this decision means that pump prices are 10p a litre cheaper than they would have been if we had not abolished the previous Government’s fuel duty escalator. It is a real help for families, businesses and motorists across the country. The AA has said that it is

“great news for all motorists”.

The RAC Foundation has said that it is

“good news for drivers and good news for the country.”

The Government have taken action upon action to support motorists and have done more than any other Government. We have avoided the two years’ worth of increases planned by the previous Government. More than that, last year we abolished Labour’s fuel duty escalator, which increased fuel duty by above inflation every year until 2013. We have successively cancelled and deferred duty to deliver the longest period of unchanged fuel duty for more than five years. As a result of that repeated action, average pump prices are now approximately 10p a litre lower than they would have been. To put that in context, a typical Ford Focus driver will be £159 better off and an average haulier £4,900 better off between 2011 and 2013 than they would have been under the plans left by the previous Government.

This support for motorists is part of our broader plan of helping with the cost of living and promoting business growth, while reducing the deficit and rebalancing the economy. That has included freezing council tax and raising the personal allowance.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I, too, congratulate the Government on this decision, not least because it saves me from making a speech on an amendment that we had planned to table on this issue. Considering the gloating of the official Opposition last week, does the Minister recall the Labour party at any stage on Second Reading or in Committee making the case for this 3p cut?

[Miss Smith]

The hon. Gentleman has given me the perfect opportunity to note that, regrettably, the official Opposition’s Benches are astoundingly empty. The stance that they took last week showed astounding political opportunism, given that they had 13 years to support the motorists but did not, and that they left behind a depth charge of increases. I regret that I shall not be able to hear him put the case in his own words. Perhaps I may explain to him more of the actions that we are taking to support the motorist and businesses.

Businesses are seeing successive cuts in corporation tax, coupled with an extended business rates holiday for small businesses until April 2013. In passing, I should note that the high pump prices of recent years are causing real difficulties in ensuring that motoring remains affordable. However, pump prices have fallen by nearly 11p a litre since their peak in April. That said, at a time when money is tight, deferring the fuel duty increase from August to January will provide further support to motorists.

This is a Government who not only have a credible plan to support motorists, but are dealing with the debts created by the previous Government. A responsible Government are able to listen to, consider and respond to the concerns of motorists. Compared with the plans that we inherited, we have cut fuel duty, cancelled the previous Government’s escalator and introduced a fair fuel stabiliser.

I understand that we will also be discussing what the Opposition have planned for motorists, perhaps in some detail. I also look forward to hearing from my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) on biodiesels. I look forward to responding on those matters. This Government are on the side of motorists and our measures will support them when times are tight.

--- Later in debate ---

[Charlie Elphicke]

My hon. Friend tempts me, as ever. He knows that my view is that one should reduce the rate and clamp down heavily on tax avoidance. I respect the fact that he does not always share my views on tackling tax avoidance—I recall that in Committee he said that I was going to paint the cliffs of Dover red, so passionate was I that people should pay their fair share—but I do think that if we have lower, simpler taxes and a simple tax system, it will incentivise investment and encourage more economic growth. The argument for reducing the higher rate of tax, which was only a temporary increase in the first place—the Labour party seems to have forgotten that—was to get more investment in our economy and to encourage the entrepreneurs and wealth creators.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the major problem we have at the moment is that it is socially acceptable to avoid paying tax and that our job as politicians is to create a social climate where it is unacceptable not to pay what you are due?

[Charlie Elphicke]

I agree. There has been a climate in which it is somehow acceptable to avoid taxation and I made many speeches in Committee about how that culture is unacceptable and needs to change.

It is up to us to send a clear message, as Members of all parties, that tax avoidance is wrong. That was why I intervened on the shadow Minister earlier to say that the message sent by politicians who use personal service companies is deeply corrosive. They should all pay a fair share of taxation and should not try to avoid it in that way, because it sends the wrong message. In all fairness, I say that to members of my own party as much as to Labour members. It is not acceptable in the current age.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Syms]

I am not sure that that is a massive loss of income. The most recent issue we debated was the 3p cut on fuel, which will make more of a difference to pensioners in my constituency than this minor change in tax allowances. I think that the Government’s policy towards pensioners is fine.

Let me turn to the top rate of tax. We all know that there is a lot of politics in this. The rate was 40p under the previous Government, except for the last 37 days they were in office, so the 50p rate was one of the wonderful inheritances from them. Clearly, if we want to stop people looking to avoid paying tax, we have to keep a competitive rate. At 40p we have a rate that was competitive with many western European countries, but at 50p we do not. If we have a country without exchange controls, a very mobile population, as we do, and people with highly tradable skills, there is a danger that if we start to put up the rates we will lose revenue and people will go abroad. As my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) said, having had a 50p rate which meant people started looking at how to avoid taxation, that might stay in the system for some time. I welcome what the Government have done by reducing the higher tax rate to 45p. I think that it is a pity they delayed it, because I suspect that the impact will be to reduce income tax take for the current year, but when the rate drops to 45p for the year after, we will see an increase in the income tax yield.

It is important to give a message. I was in this House when the previous Government put up income tax. In one of his last speeches from the Government Back Benches, Stephen Byers said that he very much regretted that the Labour party had decided to do that. If all the evidence suggests that that has not raised very much this year, it seems to me that it is being done for ideological reasons, rather than practical, economic ones. If nothing else we ought to be practical in how we do things. Therefore, the Government’s reducing the top rate, as a start, is the right thing to do which will have a beneficial effect in the long term. But let us not forget that the allowances for the lower paid have gone up this year. The top rate of tax will come down next year, by which time we will have had another Budget in which I hope the Government will have made more progress on assisting some of those on lower pay and taking more people out of the tax net.

The one thing that can be said about the Government is that their thinking is joined up. We have welfare reform, we are pushing up the tax allowances to increase work incentives, and we are dealing with a whole range of tax rates, including trying to make corporation tax more competitive, and I think that that will make us a much more competitive country in the world. We look like an island of stability, certainly compared with the eurozone countries. Let us hope that they sort out their problems so that we can start selling them our excellent goods, but let us face the fact that we live in a competitive world and unless our taxes are competitive we will not be able to generate the wealth to pay for all the things we want: health, schools, foreign aid, defence and all the things we need to do. I think that the Government are on the right track. Clearly, it is a very bumpy economic environment, certainly rather bumpier than we might have thought it would be when we came into office, but provided we have leadership and vision, we will get through.

[Jonathan Edwards]

It is a pleasure to contribute to the debate. It has been very interesting listening to the debate on income tax for the 2013-14 financial year. Hon. Members already know the position of the Plaid-SNP-Green group; we were among the handful of Members who voted against the inclusion of the new 45% additional rate in the founding principles of the Bill at the conclusion of the Budget debate earlier this year. Indeed, the official Opposition seemed to miss that debate, with the exception of two Labour Members, the hon. Members for Newport West (Paul Flynn) and for Bolsover (Mr Skinner). I also tabled amendments in Committee, which were supported at the time by the official Opposition, including some that they have chosen to table for this evening’s debate, which naturally I will support if they decide to push them to a vote later.

Much of the debate on Second Reading and in Committee focused on differing interpretations of, and often selective quotations from, a series of reports. Hon. Members attempted to argue that their party’s interpretation of the statistics was most valid, and we heard some of that again this evening. They were essentially making economic arguments about taxation—about the Government’s claim that the loss of tax revenue from shifting the 50% additional tax rate to 45% would be compensated for by the stimulus it would provide to the wider economy, and that given the amount of forestalling and income shifting that the 50% rate has apparently generated, we would be better off in future and, ultimately, more tax would be paid. That is the thrust of the argument.

I simply do not buy the idea that a tax cut will make those avoiding the 50% rate choose to contribute to society by paying at the 45% rate. What the Treasury should be doing, rather than giving a tax cut to those earning in excess of £3,000 a week, which is almost twice the average income in two months for most of my constituents, is closing down all the clearly aggressive tax avoidance schemes, some of which have been highlighted in recent weeks, and ending the tax havens that provide a nice bolthole for those who wish to hide their income.

For my party, however, the issue of taxation is one of principle. We believe that people should be proud to pay taxes and contribute to society. It should not be a game in which those who can afford to pay an accountant pay less and then consider it a triumph or a success. As I said during a debate in Committee, the Scandinavian model of taxation and social security is in my party’s DNA. Some might say that that is the difference between ourselves and the Labour party, which announced the introduction of the additional rate as a temporary measure, bringing it in literally weeks before the party left government. Where we believe that the additional rate is part and parcel of contributions to society, Labour remains unclear how long the now official Opposition intended to continue the additional rate.

This tax cut for the mega-rich leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. Public sector workers in my constituency face pension changes, meaning that they have to pay more in, that they get less out and that they work longer—that is, those who still have their jobs after spending several years with pay freezes and the threat of regional pay dangling over them. Living standards for private sector workers in my constituency are being squeezed, and many families struggling to make ends meet are being stigmatised by the Government, while the disabled and the vulnerable face tribunals to decide whether their pain is real. It is not acceptable that we are in a society which tells those at the bottom that they have a culture of entitlement, while those at the top get huge and unnecessary tax cuts. Why do we think that we can cut the poor’s income to make them work harder, but incentivise the rich through tax cuts? That is perverse thinking.

We support the aim of amendment 3, which would give those public sector workers earning less than £21,000 who have had their pay frozen a £250 tax rebate. They deserve it, as do many private sector workers who have lost out because of the Treasury’s austerity economics.

We support also amendment 1, tabled by the official Opposition, despite its effect of wiping out the additional rate altogether for 2013-14. Given their failure to vote on the inclusion of the 2013-14 rate in the Bill at the time of the Budget, we recognise that their intent is to show their belated support for maintaining current income tax rates. If the amendment is successful, we expect the Government to reinstate the top rate at 50%.

With last week’s figures confirming that the double-dip recession is deeper than first thought, and with the cuts now beginning to feed their way through the system, giving a tax cut to the mega-rich is a funny way of showing that we are all in this together.

[Nigel Mills]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards). I shall make a few brief remarks on various subjects in the Bill, starting with the granny tax, which I also spoke about on either Second Reading or during the Budget debate—we seem to have been debating it for a long time, particularly those of us who have done a few weeks in Committee on some of these topics.

I was one of those who heard the Budget, heard the Chancellor briefly mention what became known as the granny tax and did realise what it was likely to mean. I was not one of those, like the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), who claimed that the Chancellor had hidden it in his speech; it was clearly there.

Those of us who, in our short time as Members, have argued that we need to simplify our tax regime face a problem when one way suggested by the Office of Tax Simplification is this very idea. To be fair to the OTS, it did not envisage its idea being introduced quite so quickly. I suspect that generally it would be quite keen to have its ideas legislated on in a matter of weeks, but on this one it intended there to be further consultation and deliberation. It was, nevertheless, one idea that it came up with as a way of removing one of the regime’s complexities, whereby an additional allowance has to be claimed, the policy justification for which was determined a long time ago. It is perfectly reasonable for the Government to revisit it and to wonder whether, of all the groups in society who need such extra help, pensioners earning more than the state pension are one of them.

Those people who have done the right thing and saved, and who now have a little private pension on top of their state pension, are generally the ones in whom we want to encourage pension-saving behaviour, but the basic personal allowance is rapidly heading towards the £10,000 target in the coalition agreement, and the benefit of that higher personal allowance has to be clawed back. We are seeing a complexity with a reducing benefit, and we are perfectly entitled to want to understand the policy justification for it when we spend the limited amount of money that we have. It is not, therefore, an unreasonable or illogical proposal for the Government to bring forward; there was a year’s notice, and there is a chance for consultation to consider its impact.