Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

On behalf of the Democratic Unionist party, I add my support to the Minister for his proscription of Terrorgram. He clearly outlined the issues that are pertinent to the announcement. I express concern over the radicalism that seems to persist throughout society. It seems to happen in ways that I, perhaps from a non-technical point of view, cannot really understand, but I understand that the name of the organisation—Terrorgram—tells us all about this group. Its very intention is evil and wicked. Its intention is to kill and to maim. The Minister’s announcement today encourages us, as he often does when it comes to these matters.

The Minister’s announcement that the UK is the first country in the world to proscribe the Terrorgram collective is positive, and proactive by him and the Government. This group spreads vile propaganda, with evil—indeed, murderous—intent, and there is absolutely no place for it in modern society. The Minister rightly reminded the House, and myself in particular, that the group is anti-Israel and anti-Jewish. Terrorgram’s hatred of Israel and the Jewish people is to be condemned unreservedly. I commend the Minister on the Government’s response and their support of Israel within the law, which they have given the whole way through. On this issue, the response is critical. I was a friend of Israel when I was in the Northern Ireland Assembly some 14 years ago—I was there for 12 years—and I have been a friend of Israel here. I am therefore encouraged by the Minister’s comments in relation to the support that he has given the Israeli people and the Jewish people in the face of downright hatred. The Terrorgram collective must be proscribed, and it must be made criminally impossible for them to operate in any fashion, so today’s announcement is good news.

Does the Minister agree that social media plays a massive role in the distribution of horrific comments and opinions? While it may not entirely be the issue today, does he agree that much more needs to be done legislatively for platforms such as Telegram, and indeed others that are used by people to spew hatred, whether that be TikTok, Twitter or any other? I unashamedly say that I do not have the ability to do technical things, but I am pleased that others do. Technical change can happen at breakneck speed. Does the Minister intend to ensure that when anything comes on the radar of our Government, Parliament will respond immediately to proscribe it? Perhaps he can give us some idea of the timescale when something comes to the attention of the House, the security forces or others. Will he respond in an urgent manner?

Again, I thank the Minister and our Government for the proactive way that they respond. It encourages me as a citizen, and on behalf of the people of Strangford, the people of Northern Ireland, and indeed all the people of this great nation that we love.

Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Consideration of Lords message
Wednesday 17th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Michael Tomlinson]

I will address that amendment in a few minutes, but there already is an independent body: the monitoring committee is part of the treaty. I am not speaking to that amendment at the moment, but I hope to allay some of the hon. Lady’s concerns in a few minutes’ time and then to see her in the voting Lobby.

Having considered the lengthy and extensive exchanges throughout the Bill’s passage, the Government now invite Parliament to agree with our assessment that the Supreme Court’s concerns have indeed been properly addressed and to enact the Bill accordingly.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

My party will support the Government, with the exception of one amendment. I have previously asked the Minister about freedom of religion or belief. We have that freedom in the United Kingdom, but some disquiet has been expressed to me, as chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, about that freedom in Rwanda. People have repeatedly asked me this question, which I sincerely and graciously ask the Minister to answer. Is there the same freedom of religion or belief in Rwanda as we have in the United Kingdom?

[Michael Tomlinson]

I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman that any two countries’ systems are the same. As I have previously said, those freedoms are in Rwanda’s constitution. He has previously asked me that question, and I have read out the precise wording. I endeavour to do so again before the end of this debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Tom Pursglove]

I thought it was interesting that a Labour insider said to The Times last week:

“We need a viable answer to what we’d do differently other than just ‘smash the gangs’”

and that

“we can’t currently say how we are going to tackle the demand side of the issue.”

They are absolutely right. I suspect we will be waiting a very long time for the answer. That goes right to the heart of the point that the hon. Gentleman raises. He says that we ought to be closing the hotels, but it is only this Government that have a credible plan to do just that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Mr Speaker, may I pass on the condolences of myself and my party on the death of your father? We know you loved your father, and we know that your father loved you.

When it comes to reducing the number of asylum seekers, I want to suggest one option to the Minister that we could certainly do in Strangford. For those people who are in hotels, there are companies in my constituency that wish to employ them and to give them accommodation at the same time. If we want to help the asylum seekers in the hotels in my constituency, and in the consistency adjoining mine, then let them get the jobs and let them get the accommodation.

[Tom Pursglove]

While I am always very willing to engage with the hon. Gentleman, he will appreciate that the difficulty that we have in respect of that approach is the pull factor that it would present—it would potentially encourage people to make dangerous journeys via small boats to get to the UK. We do not want to do anything that plays into the business model of the evil criminal gangs responsible for that miserable trade. What we want to do is put them out of business. On the wider accommodation point, I am very happy to engage with the hon. Gentleman.

Investigatory Powers (Amendment)Bill [Lords]

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 25th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis]

The right hon. Gentleman speaks about these matters with a great deal of authority, not just as a member of the Committee but as a former Security Minister, and I think he has described the situation very well. I hope the Prime Minister is listening; I hope the Prime Minister accepts what I consider to be the reasonable and constructive invitation that has just been extended to him by the right hon. Gentleman; and I hope the Prime Minister does take the opportunity in the near future to sit down with the ISC and discuss what are, after all, very important matters.

New clause 2 would ensure that an annual report was published on measures in the Bill, and in the Investigatory Powers Act 2016, to defeat and disrupt technology-enabled serious organised crime and technology-enabled threats to our national security. We tabled the new clause because we must ensure that the law is always one step ahead of those who seek to harm us. The police and the security services are not best able to protect us today with the laws to counter the threats of yesterday, which is why we support this Bill to update the 2016 Act, which is now eight years old, but there is an opportunity to go further. The annual report proposed in the new clause would help to ensure that any changes required to primary legislation relating to investigatory powers were identified and implemented as quickly as possible. That would strengthen our legislative framework on national security, and weaken the capability and resolve of criminals and our adversaries.

I think that this is a genuine opportunity for the Government to work better with, and to constructively challenge, telecommunications operators and the wider communications technology industry on the requirements to use investigatory powers—a process that would be separate from the new notices regime included in part 4. A statutory requirement to produce an annual report on investigatory powers to counter threats to our security and safety would strengthen national security, as well as strengthening the oversight and safeguarding of measures to keep us safe. Those are two principles that guide this Bill and the 2016 Act, and that is why we will seek to push the new clause to a vote later this evening.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I hope that this evening will end with a measure of agreement. On the subject of the tech companies, I understand from information I have received that Apple, techUK, the Information Technology Industry Council and the Computer & Communications Industry Association have expressed concerns. Is the shadow Minister aware of their concerns and what this means for their ability to administrate and do their work, and does he agree that what we have tonight is a consensus that protects not just them but ordinary members of society?

[Dan Jarvis]

I know that the hon. Member takes these matters incredibly seriously, and he has raised an important point. To be absolutely fair to the Minister and to his Department, I know that this is a matter that the Government have considered very carefully, and that there has been an extensive process of consultation with a range of tech companies—I have met a number of them myself—but I think it only fair to conclude that while of course there are important contributions to be made by tech companies to this debate, these are ultimately matters for the Government and the House to determine. Having said that, new clause 2 would provide a helpful and constructive mechanism for the Government, and we have tabled it in a genuine attempt to be helpful and to monitor very closely the significant challenges that our national security faces from serious and organised crime as a consequence of rapid developments in technology.

--- Later in debate ---

This is an important Bill, which I very much hope the House will pass this evening, but there remain real concerns about clause 15 and the width of intrusion that it would involve. I therefore urge the Minister once more to consider additional safeguards to govern the exercise of these new powers to access internet connection records, so that we guarantee proper scrutiny and public confidence and ensure that the regulation of our intelligence services continues to be world leading.

[Jim Shannon]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Before I call the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), I am sure that the whole House will want to join me in wishing him a very happy birthday.

[Hon. Members]

Hear, hear!

[Jim Shannon]

You are most kind, Madam Deputy Speaker. When you get to my age, you do not count the years, but you make the years count.

It is an absolute honour and pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers). May I put on the record my thanks to her for her time as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? We appreciate her commitment and efforts over those years. Her intelligence about and interest in Northern Ireland have not dissipated because she is no longer the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland; indeed, they have added to the occasion.

It is a pleasure to speak on the Bill, which, as the Minister will know, I have done on numerous occasions. I am aware of the complexity of the issue and of the need to give privacy its rightful place in our national security. As others have done, I put on the record my thanks to all the security and intelligence services for all that they have done and still do. We owe them a great debt.

During the previous debate, I asked the Minister for his assurances regarding whether the right balance had been struck, yet I have still been contacted by constituents who continue to express their concerns. I will not detain the House for long—about five minutes—but will highlight again the concern that my constituents continue to express, to give them one last chance to receive assurances on the Floor of the House.

My constituents’ remaining concerns relate to something that we in this place have much cognisance of and that we treasure: the freedom within a democratic society to live our lives in peace as long as we are not adversely affecting the lives of others. That is a precious right, and one that none of us in the House wants to remove. I will refer to clauses 1 and 2 and highlight four companies that have expressed concerns to get the Minister’s response. My constituents have highlighted the following:

“In addition to the concerns of civil society, I would like to draw your attention to some of the comments submitted in evidence to the Bill’s Committee from the tech industry.

Apple: ‘In addition to impacting the safety of billions of users around the world who rely on security technologies developed by Apple and other companies, the Bill in its current form would undermine fundamental human rights. In fact, just this year, the European Court of Human Rights held that requiring a company to provide a means to decrypt all encrypted communications on its platform violated the right of privacy in Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.’

TechUK: ‘This could impede the ability of TechUK members to modify products and services over time to protect users from active security threats, to innovate, and enhance their services for their users.’

Information Technology Industry Council: ‘We strongly encourage greater scrutiny of these implications so that the Bill will not have a chilling effect on a company’s ability to conduct business or in current or future innovations, and that it will serve to further international efforts on shared goals around trust and security.’

Computer and Communications Industry Association: ‘Over time, this will push tech firms to refocus product development away from addressing the priorities of UK consumers, towards Government demands for access. The obstacles the new regime creates will be a drag on innovation and therefore undermine the quality of digital services on offer.’”

[Sir John Hayes]

I am listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s speech, not least because it is his birthday. Let me put it to him in this fashion. I think that the public have as much to fear from those corporate organisations as they do from any democratically elected Government. I am much more concerned about the way that they gather and sell data, and, dealing with the matter of expectation, the vast majority of people do not know that they are doing it. Rather than more a more permissive attitude towards those organisations, I want to see a less permissive one.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I share those concerns, but I wish to put on the record my concern for my constituents in relation to how the changes are interpreted and how they will affect people.

I will give the last sentence of the quotation from the Computer & Communications Industry Association:

“They could risk deterring investment in improving service for UK consumers and contribute to a sense that the UK is not a safe market in which to invest.”

Those are the four tech companies, and the questions are on the record—I put them in Hansard—so that perhaps the Minister can give me an answer. Will he outline what mitigations are in place for the matters affecting those four companies in order to secure the tech industry’s place in the fabric of our lives in the United Kingdom?

I am pleased that the Minister has accepted amendment 23, which was tabled by the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). The Democratic Unionist party was minded to support that amendment, but, because it has been accepted, we will not need to do so.

While I am aware of valid concerns, I am also aware of the need for this Bill, which the gallant Minister will know about better than most in the House. He served in Northern Ireland, so he understands the implications for us in Northern Ireland and the lives that we have led for some years. I was a part-time soldier in the Ulster Defence Regiment and in the Territorial Army for 14 and a half years. I have been a recipient of security intelligence and know how it can save lives. I am here today because of intelligence, which found out what the IRA’s intentions were. That is a fact. That has affected not just me; over the years, the intelligence services have saved the lives of other hon. and gallant Members. I have many friends who served and who are alive today because of the intelligence service or the Security Service. I had many other friends who unfortunately are not alive today; I remember them as well, so I do.

We must remember that the whole objective of the Bill is to keep us safe, to keep us secure and to ensure that our lives with our families can continue. I do hope that a balance has been struck, as the Minister outlined, because freedom is a prize worthy of getting it right. I know that the Minister wants to get it right, and I want it to be right. Madam Deputy Speaker, you want it to be right as well. Let us do it and get it right tonight.

[Tom Tugendhat]

Right hon. and hon. Members will be delighted to hear that, having answered colleagues as we went along, I have only a few short words to conclude. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] I know how to keep them happy.

Amendments 3 to 6 to clause 14 concern the restoration of specified public authorities’ general information powers to secure the disclosure of communications data from a telecommunications operator by compulsion. I pay tribute and thanks to my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes). I hope that Members will have noticed that I have listened carefully to Members across the House, and I believe that this Bill has been pulled together carefully alongside the Intelligence and Security Committee. It is a slight shame I cannot thank the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) in person, who is sadly at a funeral today. He has played an important role in contributing to and leading the engagement of which I have had the advantage in preparing this Bill.

Let me quickly touch on one or two points. My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright) spoke about notices. It is important to note that the notices do not block innovation. They do not stop a technical patch or infringe on companies’ ability to update their systems. All they do is make sure that the existing level of access remains while that is being looked at. That is a reasonable element to ensure that the British people are kept safe by the British law enforcement authorities.

Criminal Cases Review Commission

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Damian Collins]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his remarks, and I am sure my constituent is as well. I have some particular asks for the Minister at the end of my speech and they may be relevant for the work the hon. Gentleman is involved in.

I would like to consider what has become known subsequent to the 2002 Court of Appeal case. Much of Mr Cleeland’s conviction rests on the belief by the Crown, as established in the trial, that the Gye & Moncrieff shotgun was the murder weapon and the two guns found in a weir in Harlow were nothing to do with the murder at all. The view of the Court of Appeal was that the two shotguns found in Essex could not be considered to be the murder weapon, and that it might have been established that the Gye & Moncrieff gun was the murder weapon.

Mr Spencer, the forensic expert called to give evidence to the Court of Appeal, discredited a lot of the evidence presented against Mr Cleeland by Mr McCafferty of the Metropolitan Police Service in the original trial. In particular, he noted that there were no case notes for any of the assertions that Mr McCafferty made in the trial, and therefore doubt should be placed on the evidence he had given. Mr Spencer also concluded that there was no hard evidence connecting the gun with either the murder or Mr Cleeland.

There was also the question of the consideration of the other guns that had been found. The summing up of the Court of Appeal case said that it was clear that both Mr Pryor and Mr Spencer discounted the other guns. That was not true. In the transcript from the proceedings of the Court of Appeal, when my constituent was questioning Mr Pryor, Mr Pryor was very clear that he could not rule out that one of the sawn-off shotguns could have been the murder weapon. He may have said he did not believe it was, but he could not exclude that possibility.

It is also not the case that Mr Spencer could have reached that conclusion, because he had never actually examined the guns himself. The Court of Appeal wrongly stated that he had, but he had not—in fact he could not have done, because the guns were destroyed in the 1970s, when it was believed that they were no longer of any importance to the police.

It was clear from the Court of Appeal hearing, despite what was said in the summing up, that there was no forensic link between the gun and the murder and Mr Cleeland, and that the expert witnesses did not discount the possibility that one of the other guns could have been the murder weapon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate; I spoke to him beforehand. He has outlined a very serious case that prompts a lot of questions. Of 31,300 applications received by the Criminal Cases Review Commission, 832 have been referred to the Court of Appeal and only 500 have been successful. The Government and the Minister must try to encourage more people that the process is effective by referring more cases and hearing more evidence. That would instil the confidence, as the hon. Gentleman has clearly outlined on behalf of his constituent.

[Damian Collins]

I agree. The hon. Gentleman raises a point essential to the work of the Law Commission in reviewing whether enough cases are being referred or whether the CCRC is taking too much of a precautionary approach.

Since the Court of Appeal hearing, other cases have come forward. At Mr Cleeland’s initial trial, Mr McCafferty presented evidence that there was lead residue on Mr Cleeland’s clothing and that this was consistent with firearms discharge. The sodium rhodizonate test was the one used at the time—this was the theme of my 2011 Adjournment debate—but it was not a firearms residue test. It was known not to be so: as early as 1965, it was known within the police that it could not detect firearms residue, but only the presence of lead. Concerns were raised that it was not made clear at the trial that the test was extremely limited, and that the lead residue could easily have come from other environmental pollutants. Mr Cleeland was a painter and decorator at the time and worked with lead-based paints. He had also been to a fireworks party on the evening of the murder and could have picked up lead residue there, but that was never clearly explained.

Further forensic evidence produced since 2002 by Mr Dudley Gibbs has also cast doubt on the judgment. He maintained that there is no forensic evidence linking the Gye & Moncrieff shotgun with Mr Cleeland. He also pointed out, significantly, that the gunshot pellets found in the victim’s body were a different size from those found in the Blue Rival cartridges alleged to have been used at the shooting. It was believed at the time by Mr McCafferty, and presented in court to the jury, that the Blue Rival cartridges came with a highly distinctive wadding that would have linked the cartridges to the gun and to Mr Cleeland. Mr Gibbs made it clear that the wadding was not distinctive in any way and could have come from any number of brands of cartridge that could have been purchased. Again, that casts doubt.

In the Barry George case, Barry George was convicted of the murder of TV presenter Jill Dando and later acquitted on the basis that the lead residue found on his clothing and presented in court could not have been evidence of his having fired a gun. Again, it was only a small particle of lead and it could have come from environmental factors. On those grounds, the Court of Appeal overturned the decision, in what is often referred to as the Pendleton judgment, on the basis that it was not possible to know how the jury would have reacted if they had known that the lead residue itself was circumstantial evidence, not evidence of having fired a gun.

All these things apply in Mr Cleeland’s case. The concern throughout—in the subsequent cases he has brought to the CCRC and when he sought to appeal the CCRC’s decision in the divisional court and latterly in the civil court of the Court of Appeal—has been that the CCRC, the courts and the judges have consistently relied on statements that are just not true, and that have been demonstrated in court not to be true. Mr Pryor did not discount the question that one of the Harlow guns was the murder weapon. Neither he nor the other expert believed that there was any forensic evidence linking the Gye & Moncrieff shotgun to the murder or Mr Cleeland—a point that was consistently made.

Mr Cleeland is now in the position of having been accused of being a vexatious litigant simply because he is seeking to correct the record and have the CCRC clearly state these facts instead of relying on previous evidence and previous rulings that are not true and that are inaccurate. He wants the record to be corrected, and he wants the CCRC to acknowledge the complaints that have been made and consider the judgments that have been made by other judges who have relied on evidence presented by the CCRC, which continues to reassert these points.

When we look at the case now, it is hard to know how the jury would have reacted in the 1970s when they considered Mr Cleeland’s case, particularly because almost every principal area of evidence presented by the Crown was subsequently proven to be flawed. That is true even of the evidence from two policemen who described having overheard cell confessions by Mr Cleeland that implicated him in the crime. Subsequent to 2002, those policemen were discredited and regarded as unsafe witnesses, as their evidence was considered to have potentially misled another case. Had that been known at the time, their evidence would have been considered very differently in the case of Mr Cleeland. There is now substantial evidence that challenges what has gone before, but the CCRC continues to reject it. In many ways, it is presenting evidence that does not bear out the facts. Those seem to be the reasons why the CCRC will not refer the case on.

My request to the Minister, which I am happy to set out in writing to her and to the Lord Chancellor, is that there be an acknowledgment of these mistakes; that the record be put right and fresh consideration be given by the CCRC to Mr Cleeland’s case, in the light of these facts having been corrected and amends having been made; and that the Law Commission considers Mr Cleeland’s case directly in its work on the safety principle for referrals.

Illegal Drug Use and Organised Crime

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 6th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of illegal drug use and organised crime.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I am delighted to see the Minister in her place to respond.

The issue of drug use is exacerbated by organised crime and criminal gangs, not just here in the UK but across the globe. It is a growing phenomenon and problem. I have received estimates on the drug business in the UK—if drug death and drug peddling can be called a business. The estimates vary, but the value is approximately £9 billion to £9.5 billion per year. The cost of drugs is much greater than that, however, given hospitalisations and treatment, aftercare, and the problem of drugs in prisons. Estimates of the total cost are between £18 billion and £19.5 billion, so it is an extraordinarily expensive problem and it is escalating.

In Northern Ireland alone, drug-related deaths increased by almost 100% between 2012 and 2020. Similar increases are reported in England, Wales and Scotland. We know that the issue of drugs in Scotland is particularly acute, and issues have been raised there, but I will not dwell too much on how they are treated.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend my hon. Friend and colleague for bringing this matter forward. He will be aware of the difficulties caused in my constituency by a feud between rival drug gangs; it cost the Police Service of Northern Ireland literally hundreds of thousands of pounds to police. Does my hon. Friend agree that when we are facing a crumbling NHS, the fact that this money had to go toward this problem is truly disgusting? Does he agree that the penalties for those involved should reflect the damage they did to their own community and should be paid for out of their own pockets?

[Mr Campbell]

Yes, in Northern Ireland the issue that my hon. Friend raises is well known and, unfortunately, replicated elsewhere. There were particularly acute problems there for a considerable period of time. Organised criminal gangs were peddling and distributing drugs, often using young people to enhance their distribution methods.

I have bid for this debate for some time now, and I have taken note of some of the national and international newspaper coverage. In The Times a few weeks ago was a headline about a crack epidemic sweeping Germany. In The Daily Telegraph: “Narco gangs hold sway in the Med”. Those are just two headlines, but they indicate to the readers and the wider public the growing problem across the Western world, particularly the developed world, of gangs being able to influence society not for good but to peddle death and destruction in the wake of their drug trade. Ecuador has been in the news recently, with drug cartels there causing mayhem and destruction in recent months. There are drug gangs in Venezuela—and Honduras, Guatemala, and Trinidad and Tobago have all suffered problems.

The issue has crystallised in the UK in recent times. Last September a huge haul was seized off the coast of the Republic of Ireland; it was so big that the ship was almost sinking. Then €150 million of illegal drugs were seized. They were not destined purely for the Irish Republic; the market for drugs in the Irish Republic would not have amounted to €150 million on one trip—they were destined for all of these islands and possibly further into Europe. There was an even bigger haul in the port of Philadelphia some five years ago, when $1 billion of illegal drugs was seized.

I mention those two particular hauls because we all know that the reality of the 21st century is that for every haul that is discovered, other consignments get through via other routes for distribution. I do not know whether one in 10 or one in 20 consignments is caught, but we know for absolute certain that it is not one in one. If drugs worth $1 billion were caught in America in one haul and €150 million worth were caught off the coast of the Irish Republic less than six months ago, how many billions’ worth of illegal drugs have reached these islands and continental Europe in the past few years? Our hospitals and treatment units all bear testimony to the problems that these illegal drugs are causing, particularly for our young people.

However, an interesting facet about the drug deaths issue is that although it is predominantly young people who begin experimenting with drugs and peddling them, it is those in an older age range—those between 40 and 50—who tend to die from drugs or drug-related problems. That indicates to all of us that even those who talk about drugs as a leisure pursuit or about “casual use” of drugs, perhaps at the weekend, find that, as with other substances, drugs become addictive. They come to be increasingly used in a weekday or weekday evening setting, as opposed to being used “casually” on a Friday or Saturday night, whether out at a social event or at home. The problem comes later in life, and we see what has happened in our hospital beds and treatment rooms.

My reason for raising this issue today is that hopefully the Minister will be able to reassure us that her colleagues, both nationally and internationally, will ensure that the issue is brought to the attention of the authorities that can do something at the point of departure—whether in central America or eastern Europe; where there are hotspots—to try to stop the drugs from being dispatched in the first place.

Of course, the National Crime Agency has a central role to play and I hope to receive an assurance from the Minister that this type of issue will concentrate minds—not just now, in the aftermath of a huge haul like the one in September last year, but on an ongoing basis; and not just over the next few weeks and months, but for years to come.

[Jim Shannon]

When I look at organised crime and realise the money that organised criminals have created through their illegal activities over the years, I always think about the best way to deal with criminals and crime gangs. Does my hon. Friend agree that if we want to hurt the criminal, we hurt him in his pocket? We should do the Al Capone trick: hit them where it hurts and put them away. We can do that by getting them for tax evasion and laundering money that they should not have.

[Mr Campbell]

Indeed, in Northern Ireland the Paramilitary Crime Task Force and the Organised Crime Task Force are bodies that should concentrate on this issue. I know they have had some success in recent years, but there needs to be an escalation of awareness among the relevant statutory authorities about the increasing scale of the problem.

Sometimes we hear people on television or on the radio talking about drugs as if they are a casual thing and not really addictive. There may well be a few people who fall into that category and think they are using drugs casually on a night out or a social evening, but as the problem escalates—after 10, 12 or 15 years of constant use—the addiction gets worse and worse, and it often results in hospitalisation or admission to an addiction treatment unit if there is one. In some areas people are yearning for addiction treatment units because the problem is increasing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Laura Farris]

In 2021, we published our own 10-year drug strategy, setting out how we are stepping up our response to all stages of the supply chain. I will summarise briefly the first elements of that, because they are the most directly relevant to the issues raised in the debate.

The first element is restricting upstream flow, working with both Border Force and the National Crime Agency to tackle drug trafficking upstream to prevent the highest-harm drugs reaching our shores. We have invested in a network of law enforcement officers who are posted to key source and transit countries of which we are already aware. The second element is securing the border, which we have done by working with partners to develop innovative, intelligence-led approaches that ensure that we keep pace with criminals, particularly the routes and methods that they use. The third element is targeting the middle market. Part of that will be bearing down on the organised crime groups that are involved in wholesaling and distributing drugs across the United Kingdom. The fourth element is going after the money, disrupting drug gang operations and seizing their cash.

We are cognisant of the fact that a seller of illegal drugs no longer has to be physically present; a user in Northern Ireland can now order drugs online from anywhere in the world. That is why the sale of illegal drugs is a priority harm listed in the Online Safety Act 2023, which will introduce measures requiring platforms to identify and remove content relating to the sale of drugs online. A key pillar of our own plan is to disrupt and destroy county lines operations; while I concede that they are more prevalent in Great Britain, that does not mean that the activity does not have the potential to spread to Northern Ireland. At present, our county lines programme has met its three-year target to close down more than 2,000 lines so far, and we are on track to close down a further 1,000 lines by August.

I will summarise our progress report so far. By 2024-25, we are on track to have contributed to the prevention of 750,000 crimes, including 140,000 neighbourhood crimes, through increases that we have provided in drug treatment. We have delivered just shy of 9,000 major and moderate disruptions of organised criminals, including arresting suppliers, targeting their finances and dismantling supply chains. Significantly, we have seen improvement in our denial of criminal assets, taking cash, crypto and other assets from the hands of criminals involved in drug trafficking and supply.

I will make two more points before I conclude. One focuses on our serious and organised crime strategy, which the hon. Member for East Londonderry said is the key component in understanding the drug trade. Our strategy refocuses our efforts in response to new and emerging challenges to reduce serious and organised crime in the UK, making it a significantly harder place for organised crime groups to operate. Some of what we are doing is set out in the Criminal Justice Bill. For example, we are taking steps to criminalise or make illegal pill presses used for the mass reproduction of drugs.

We are also making illegal the templates for 3D-printed firearms components, which we see increasingly as a tool of serious and organised crime, as well as various vehicle concealment devices, where we find that weapons and people are being hidden effectively in cars. We are also strengthening and improving the serious crime prevention orders regime in the Bill. The measures under that regime will have equal application to Northern Ireland. The legislation will target the enablers and facilitators who support and profit from serious crime, which often has an overlap with the drugs trade, and improve our ability to manage and disrupt the highest-harm offenders.

I promise to take back to the Policing Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp)—he is not here today, which is why I am responding in his place—the question that the hon. Member for East Londonderry asked about policing in Northern Ireland.

I will finish my remarks by again extending my thanks to the hon. Member for East Londonderry for securing the debate and for the very sensible points that he has made. The supply of illegal drugs is an issue for every area of the United Kingdom. It may present different challenges according to location, but I think it is obvious that it creates equivalent problems, no matter where it arises.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for her very helpful response, which we appreciate. In my intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), I referred to how all regional police forces can better work together across the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, across Europe and through Interpol. Organised crime transcends all borders: criminals do not stop at wherever the borders may be—they keep on going. Does the Minister have any indication of how the regional police forces on the mainland here and in the Republic of Ireland can better work collectively with those in Northern Ireland to ensure that we can take on those guys, remove their money and put them in prison?

[Laura Farris]

I reassure the hon. Gentleman that there has been some discussion about a Home Office trip to Northern Ireland to talk about exactly that—how we can improve the cross-communications. It is still at quite an early stage, but we are really interested in doing that for exactly the reasons that he outlined.

Concerted action is obviously needed to turn the tide on this issue, and that is what the Government are aiming to achieve through our strategies. I promise to take the sensible and helpful points that have been made back to the Policing Minister, and hopefully we can continue our work collaboratively on this issue.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 26th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point, informed by a tragic case in his own constituency. He is right that, as it stands, the legislation does not allow for tagging of people who are simply on police bail—that is to say, before their first appearance in court. There are some considerations to do with whether tagging constitutes a form of punishment and whether that is appropriate prior to a court hearing. However, my hon. Friend raises a reasonable point informed by a constituency case, and I am happy to take it away and look at it with him.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister very much for that response. Obviously, with a renewed and reinvigorated Northern Ireland Assembly and a Minister in place, we in Northern Ireland are very keen to work alongside the Minister on some of the suggestions he has referred to. Will he contact the policing and justice Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that what is going to happen here can happen to us in Northern Ireland, and that we can all gain the advantage?

[Chris Philp]

I thank the hon. Member for his question. It is, of course, very good news that the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive have been restored. Policing is devolved, so the Assembly and Executive can set their own policy. However, if they would like any information about the policies we are pursuing in the England and Wales jurisdiction, I would be very happy to share that information and work constructively and collaboratively with all the devolved Administrations, including in Northern Ireland.

Off-road Biking

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I did not expect to be called so early, Mrs Latham, so thank you for doing so. I congratulate the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) on securing this debate on a subject that I have some knowledge of, primarily because of my role as an MP. It is clear to me that there are people who use quads legitimately. The hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Sir Bill Wiggin), who intervened earlier, is probably in the same category as me. There are those who use them for a purpose, but there are others who abuse the system. I will refer to both categories.

As a landowner, I have quads on the land to help with farming and basic upkeep. They are an essential tool. We had one for the boys when they were small, probably for fun, but now we use it for a purpose. It is used on the farm almost every day of the week. I know a number of farmers who use a motorbike to help them move their livestock across their fields, and they also use a motorbike or a quad in areas that their jeeps or tractors have difficulty crossing. It is probably niftier and quicker on a quad than it is on a tractor or a four-wheel drive.

I taught my boys early to use a quad safely and to enjoy doing so. I am all for the appropriate use of scramblers and quads as needed. However, I also made it clear to my boys at an early stage, and now to my grandchildren, that those were for use on our own land, with an awareness of the impact on other people’s land. In other words, they do not use them anywhere else unless it is legitimate or permission has been granted.

Such consideration used to be universally accepted, but increasingly I come across farmers who are upset at the high level of damage to their crop land by those who come with their quads or scramblers and set up a cross-country course. This has also been a problem on council land, with actual tracks set up without permission or, indeed, insurance in place, so there is an issue if something goes wrong. Many landowners find themselves in a difficult position if they have not taken steps to stop it happening. If somebody has an accident on the land, they could find themselves culpable for any injuries.

I have been at the home of people whose peace and quiet has been destroyed by scramblers on wasteland behind them and whose fence and property have also been damaged. It is clear that councils need to have greater fines and enforcement powers to help deal with the antisocial behaviour problems that off-road bikes cause.

I also wish to put on record that Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick in the House of Lords and I pushed for legislation to have a safety roll bar over the tops of quads because a friend of ours was killed in an accident on a quad. We feel that safety is important and pertinent. That is not the Minister’s responsibility, but I want to highlight that issue and ensure that quads are safe for those who use them.

On the usage of land, I wish to differentiate between organised groups and individuals who have no care or thought for others. I offer my support to those who wish to find areas to carry out and enjoy their sport sensibly and responsibly with insurance in place. I worked with a motorbike group involved in scrambling. When I was on the council before coming to this place in 2010, I worked alongside them and other representatives to ensure that they got some land to use at the Whitespots between Newtownards and Bangor. They wanted to do it correctly and provide insurance cover. There are organisations that wish to do that, and we should work alongside them, to ensure that their sport can be delivered. That was done in partnership with Ards Borough Council, which is now known as Ards and North Down Borough Council. The council plans for Conlig and Whitespots include setting aside that portion of land for that group, which seeks safety and does not want to annoy people, in a way that is controlled, regulated and monitored. There are ways to do that.

My local council has sought to provide land to host scheduled organised events, such as the Ulster MTB XC championships, held at Whitespots, but it has neither the finances or manpower to provide good circuits and venues to help facilitate this sensible sport, without help and support from central Government. I add my voice to calls for councils to receive additional funding. That portion of land that we got from the council some time ago was land exclusively for the club’s use, so it does not match the requirements and regulations of an organised event. That is why that was unable to be taken forward.

In closing, my three boys were blessed with space to enjoy their quads. My grandchildren—the two eldest girls of eight and 14—are also blessed to have the same opportunity to use the quad on our land. I believe that the Government can step up to help provide facilities to give a standard of safety, as well as prevent farmland and livestock from being harmed by those who see a field and just want a wee jaunt.

Let us recognise that there is a valid sport, with a need to be helped, but those who have no care must be held accountable. Those are the people the hon. Member for Darlington referred to—those who have total disrespect. We have to draw a differential between the two: those who do it legitimately and try to work within the law, and those who disregard the law. Today’s debate is important to highlight the issue, as the hon. Member for Darlington has done, and others will do shortly. Although not responsible for Northern Ireland, the Minister is always very responsible and comes back with answers to our questions.

I always try to add a Northern Ireland perspective to a debate; colleagues would never expect anything else from an MP from Northern Ireland. I think it adds to the debate and gives an idea of what we have done in my constituency of Strangford, working alongside clubs to make it happen, while highlighting the issue of those who have no regard for landowners. We need to ensure that the law of the land is in place so that it can regulate and punish, if necessary, those who damage land or property.

Antisemitism in the UK

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue. Gathering outside a synagogue with the purpose of intimidating people coming out is completely unacceptable. That is not protest; it is deliberate intimidation, and it has no place on our streets whatsoever. The police have substantial powers to act in this area; I will not recite all the various sections and Acts, but the police have numerous powers to act. We have regular meetings with policing leaders—one is coming up in just a few days—and I will certainly be raising this point. If my hon. Friend could send me a couple of examples, I would be very happy to raise them with the Metropolitan police in the coming days.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his statement, for his robust answers and for his strength of purpose in supporting Jewish people across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; he is very clearly doing that. Have discussions taken place with the devolved Administrations, in particular the Northern Ireland Assembly, regarding a support fund for those who feel unsafe in their current homes and need help to move to a safe place, bearing in mind that we are now in a scenario where Jewish families are staying indoors—afraid to go out unless it is essential—due to so-called peace protesters who are making our streets feel unsafe for a section of our community?

Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]

Jim Shannon Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I thank all right hon. and hon Members for their contributions. This is a complex issue, and that is clear from the level of scrutiny and debate we have seen thus far. The Bill seeks to find a balance—the shadow Home Secretary referred to that very word, “balance”—between necessary investigatory powers and not having a Big Brother, nanny state.

I thank, as others have done, the security forces and those involved in the intelligence sector for all that they do, their work and their commitment and dedication to the job, which have made all our lives safer. Many in this House—I know a few, anyway—could say that they owe their lives to them, and I would be one of them. I thank them very much for all they have done.

I am keen to see work on international terrorism. I was talking to my friend, the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), about how international terrorism works. The Real IRA has contacts in the middle east and eastern Europe. It has contacts where all evil organisations come together, because their ultimate intention is to create havoc and murder innocent people. This Bill is important, because it can address terrorism in Northern Ireland and its contacts with international terrorism. I hope and pray that the work will be successful. As someone who has lived through years of terrorism, I am well used to curtailed freedoms, with checkpoints and stop and search. I have understood the necessity for that and have been thankful for those protections. Let me be clear: I have no issue whatever with this Bill in principle, but I have some questions for the Minister.

Various constituents have contacted me to express concerns, and I want to put those on record, ever mindful of supporting the Government on this issue as measures come forward. I will take a few moments to seek some clarification. First, a concern has been outlined to me about having a notification requirement to require operators to inform the Secretary of State if they propose to make changes to their products or services, and I am sure that other Members have received that briefing. Open Rights Group states:

“While this objective may appear to be reasonable, it would allow the Home Office to prevent secure services from launching in the UK, even where they are rolled out elsewhere. This provision would allow the Home Office to place itself in a position of power over the provider as soon as it hears about the possibility of data being less accessible than it is currently. This situation would take place without reference to an independent authority to assess the rationale or proportionality. Such a move might not be proportionate, for instance, if the security technology had already been introduced safely and with demonstrable benefits to users in other parts of the world.

Open Rights Group is concerned that these powers could deny people the access to technological developments upon which people’s free expression and right to privacy rely. For example, major tech providers such as Apple have stated that they would pull certain services from the UK rather than compromise their security if this power was used to prevent them from rolling out security updates.”

I gently ask the Minister to be clear about why the presumption should not be made in the manner I outlined and what discussions have taken place to ensure that providers such as Apple can work securely in the UK. The right hon. and learned Member for Fareham (Suella Braverman) referred to the dark web and all the things that can happen in it. It is really important that the dark web is taken care of in this legislation.

Also highlighted to me were end-to-end encryption issues and the inability of service providers to see service users’ content in their apps and systems. I am not a technical whizz kid; I am the very opposite. I am of that old generation who can just about do text messages on their phone and turn on Zoom meetings, but if something goes wrong, I am lost. When it comes to technology, I am not au fait with it, but I do know this. I understand the need for people with no question mark above them whatsoever to know that their messages are private and that the Government are not storing information—that could be accessed by others—on them for no reason. It is important that that never happens.

Data breaches affected staff in my office when my accounts in the House were hacked in the last fortnight. We let the security people know, and I understand that it is not unusual for it to happen, but when it does and people’s content is accessed, it is important that such breaches are taken care of. We have also had the breach of data on police officers in Northern Ireland. Those are both testament to the fact that breaches occur. Therefore, only what is essential should ever be gathered and stored. Reference was made to the need to have robust monitoring and regulation. If that had been in place, the Police Service of Northern Ireland data breaches, which I think disadvantaged more than 3,500 people, would never have happened.

While I cannot browse and shop online—I have no interest in doing so—watch TV programmes online or do any of those other things, I do believe that there is a need for privacy. My concern is that the Bill is encroaching too far on those whom the Government have no reason to hold data on. I ask the Minister again to make it clear why any online search history should be stored. These are gentle questions—they are not meant to be intrusive or aggressive—but it is important that I put these matters on the record on behalf of the constituents who have contacted me.

I highlight the concerns of my constituent that the Bill’s proposed measures are poised to

“profoundly impact political dissidents and opposition figures residing in the UK. Refugees, political exiles and human rights advocates who have sought refuge in the UK deserve the assurance of digital safety and security.”

I seek that assurance for those who have fled offensive and oppressive regimes and sought refuge in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I would further appreciate an insight into how we can ensure that there is freedom to express opposition, yet not see harmful rhetoric. That balance is clearly difficult to reach. I seek the necessary clarification that we have struck that balance. I very much look forward to hearing from the Minister, because I believe that his response will encapsulate the questions we have asked and give us the answers that we desire.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We come now to the wind-ups.