Illegal Drug Use and Organised Crime

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 6th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of illegal drug use and organised crime.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I am delighted to see the Minister in her place to respond.

The issue of drug use is exacerbated by organised crime and criminal gangs, not just here in the UK but across the globe. It is a growing phenomenon and problem. I have received estimates on the drug business in the UK—if drug death and drug peddling can be called a business. The estimates vary, but the value is approximately £9 billion to £9.5 billion per year. The cost of drugs is much greater than that, however, given hospitalisations and treatment, aftercare, and the problem of drugs in prisons. Estimates of the total cost are between £18 billion and £19.5 billion, so it is an extraordinarily expensive problem and it is escalating.

In Northern Ireland alone, drug-related deaths increased by almost 100% between 2012 and 2020. Similar increases are reported in England, Wales and Scotland. We know that the issue of drugs in Scotland is particularly acute, and issues have been raised there, but I will not dwell too much on how they are treated.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend my hon. Friend and colleague for bringing this matter forward. He will be aware of the difficulties caused in my constituency by a feud between rival drug gangs; it cost the Police Service of Northern Ireland literally hundreds of thousands of pounds to police. Does my hon. Friend agree that when we are facing a crumbling NHS, the fact that this money had to go toward this problem is truly disgusting? Does he agree that the penalties for those involved should reflect the damage they did to their own community and should be paid for out of their own pockets?

[Mr Campbell]

Yes, in Northern Ireland the issue that my hon. Friend raises is well known and, unfortunately, replicated elsewhere. There were particularly acute problems there for a considerable period of time. Organised criminal gangs were peddling and distributing drugs, often using young people to enhance their distribution methods.

I have bid for this debate for some time now, and I have taken note of some of the national and international newspaper coverage. In The Times a few weeks ago was a headline about a crack epidemic sweeping Germany. In The Daily Telegraph: “Narco gangs hold sway in the Med”. Those are just two headlines, but they indicate to the readers and the wider public the growing problem across the Western world, particularly the developed world, of gangs being able to influence society not for good but to peddle death and destruction in the wake of their drug trade. Ecuador has been in the news recently, with drug cartels there causing mayhem and destruction in recent months. There are drug gangs in Venezuela—and Honduras, Guatemala, and Trinidad and Tobago have all suffered problems.

The issue has crystallised in the UK in recent times. Last September a huge haul was seized off the coast of the Republic of Ireland; it was so big that the ship was almost sinking. Then €150 million of illegal drugs were seized. They were not destined purely for the Irish Republic; the market for drugs in the Irish Republic would not have amounted to €150 million on one trip—they were destined for all of these islands and possibly further into Europe. There was an even bigger haul in the port of Philadelphia some five years ago, when $1 billion of illegal drugs was seized.

I mention those two particular hauls because we all know that the reality of the 21st century is that for every haul that is discovered, other consignments get through via other routes for distribution. I do not know whether one in 10 or one in 20 consignments is caught, but we know for absolute certain that it is not one in one. If drugs worth $1 billion were caught in America in one haul and €150 million worth were caught off the coast of the Irish Republic less than six months ago, how many billions’ worth of illegal drugs have reached these islands and continental Europe in the past few years? Our hospitals and treatment units all bear testimony to the problems that these illegal drugs are causing, particularly for our young people.

However, an interesting facet about the drug deaths issue is that although it is predominantly young people who begin experimenting with drugs and peddling them, it is those in an older age range—those between 40 and 50—who tend to die from drugs or drug-related problems. That indicates to all of us that even those who talk about drugs as a leisure pursuit or about “casual use” of drugs, perhaps at the weekend, find that, as with other substances, drugs become addictive. They come to be increasingly used in a weekday or weekday evening setting, as opposed to being used “casually” on a Friday or Saturday night, whether out at a social event or at home. The problem comes later in life, and we see what has happened in our hospital beds and treatment rooms.

My reason for raising this issue today is that hopefully the Minister will be able to reassure us that her colleagues, both nationally and internationally, will ensure that the issue is brought to the attention of the authorities that can do something at the point of departure—whether in central America or eastern Europe; where there are hotspots—to try to stop the drugs from being dispatched in the first place.

Of course, the National Crime Agency has a central role to play and I hope to receive an assurance from the Minister that this type of issue will concentrate minds—not just now, in the aftermath of a huge haul like the one in September last year, but on an ongoing basis; and not just over the next few weeks and months, but for years to come.

[Jim Shannon]

When I look at organised crime and realise the money that organised criminals have created through their illegal activities over the years, I always think about the best way to deal with criminals and crime gangs. Does my hon. Friend agree that if we want to hurt the criminal, we hurt him in his pocket? We should do the Al Capone trick: hit them where it hurts and put them away. We can do that by getting them for tax evasion and laundering money that they should not have.

[Mr Campbell]

Indeed, in Northern Ireland the Paramilitary Crime Task Force and the Organised Crime Task Force are bodies that should concentrate on this issue. I know they have had some success in recent years, but there needs to be an escalation of awareness among the relevant statutory authorities about the increasing scale of the problem.

Sometimes we hear people on television or on the radio talking about drugs as if they are a casual thing and not really addictive. There may well be a few people who fall into that category and think they are using drugs casually on a night out or a social evening, but as the problem escalates—after 10, 12 or 15 years of constant use—the addiction gets worse and worse, and it often results in hospitalisation or admission to an addiction treatment unit if there is one. In some areas people are yearning for addiction treatment units because the problem is increasing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Laura Farris]

In 2021, we published our own 10-year drug strategy, setting out how we are stepping up our response to all stages of the supply chain. I will summarise briefly the first elements of that, because they are the most directly relevant to the issues raised in the debate.

The first element is restricting upstream flow, working with both Border Force and the National Crime Agency to tackle drug trafficking upstream to prevent the highest-harm drugs reaching our shores. We have invested in a network of law enforcement officers who are posted to key source and transit countries of which we are already aware. The second element is securing the border, which we have done by working with partners to develop innovative, intelligence-led approaches that ensure that we keep pace with criminals, particularly the routes and methods that they use. The third element is targeting the middle market. Part of that will be bearing down on the organised crime groups that are involved in wholesaling and distributing drugs across the United Kingdom. The fourth element is going after the money, disrupting drug gang operations and seizing their cash.

We are cognisant of the fact that a seller of illegal drugs no longer has to be physically present; a user in Northern Ireland can now order drugs online from anywhere in the world. That is why the sale of illegal drugs is a priority harm listed in the Online Safety Act 2023, which will introduce measures requiring platforms to identify and remove content relating to the sale of drugs online. A key pillar of our own plan is to disrupt and destroy county lines operations; while I concede that they are more prevalent in Great Britain, that does not mean that the activity does not have the potential to spread to Northern Ireland. At present, our county lines programme has met its three-year target to close down more than 2,000 lines so far, and we are on track to close down a further 1,000 lines by August.

I will summarise our progress report so far. By 2024-25, we are on track to have contributed to the prevention of 750,000 crimes, including 140,000 neighbourhood crimes, through increases that we have provided in drug treatment. We have delivered just shy of 9,000 major and moderate disruptions of organised criminals, including arresting suppliers, targeting their finances and dismantling supply chains. Significantly, we have seen improvement in our denial of criminal assets, taking cash, crypto and other assets from the hands of criminals involved in drug trafficking and supply.

I will make two more points before I conclude. One focuses on our serious and organised crime strategy, which the hon. Member for East Londonderry said is the key component in understanding the drug trade. Our strategy refocuses our efforts in response to new and emerging challenges to reduce serious and organised crime in the UK, making it a significantly harder place for organised crime groups to operate. Some of what we are doing is set out in the Criminal Justice Bill. For example, we are taking steps to criminalise or make illegal pill presses used for the mass reproduction of drugs.

We are also making illegal the templates for 3D-printed firearms components, which we see increasingly as a tool of serious and organised crime, as well as various vehicle concealment devices, where we find that weapons and people are being hidden effectively in cars. We are also strengthening and improving the serious crime prevention orders regime in the Bill. The measures under that regime will have equal application to Northern Ireland. The legislation will target the enablers and facilitators who support and profit from serious crime, which often has an overlap with the drugs trade, and improve our ability to manage and disrupt the highest-harm offenders.

I promise to take back to the Policing Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp)—he is not here today, which is why I am responding in his place—the question that the hon. Member for East Londonderry asked about policing in Northern Ireland.

I will finish my remarks by again extending my thanks to the hon. Member for East Londonderry for securing the debate and for the very sensible points that he has made. The supply of illegal drugs is an issue for every area of the United Kingdom. It may present different challenges according to location, but I think it is obvious that it creates equivalent problems, no matter where it arises.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for her very helpful response, which we appreciate. In my intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), I referred to how all regional police forces can better work together across the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, across Europe and through Interpol. Organised crime transcends all borders: criminals do not stop at wherever the borders may be—they keep on going. Does the Minister have any indication of how the regional police forces on the mainland here and in the Republic of Ireland can better work collectively with those in Northern Ireland to ensure that we can take on those guys, remove their money and put them in prison?

[Laura Farris]

I reassure the hon. Gentleman that there has been some discussion about a Home Office trip to Northern Ireland to talk about exactly that—how we can improve the cross-communications. It is still at quite an early stage, but we are really interested in doing that for exactly the reasons that he outlined.

Concerted action is obviously needed to turn the tide on this issue, and that is what the Government are aiming to achieve through our strategies. I promise to take the sensible and helpful points that have been made back to the Policing Minister, and hopefully we can continue our work collaboratively on this issue.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 26th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point, informed by a tragic case in his own constituency. He is right that, as it stands, the legislation does not allow for tagging of people who are simply on police bail—that is to say, before their first appearance in court. There are some considerations to do with whether tagging constitutes a form of punishment and whether that is appropriate prior to a court hearing. However, my hon. Friend raises a reasonable point informed by a constituency case, and I am happy to take it away and look at it with him.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister very much for that response. Obviously, with a renewed and reinvigorated Northern Ireland Assembly and a Minister in place, we in Northern Ireland are very keen to work alongside the Minister on some of the suggestions he has referred to. Will he contact the policing and justice Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that what is going to happen here can happen to us in Northern Ireland, and that we can all gain the advantage?

[Chris Philp]

I thank the hon. Member for his question. It is, of course, very good news that the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive have been restored. Policing is devolved, so the Assembly and Executive can set their own policy. However, if they would like any information about the policies we are pursuing in the England and Wales jurisdiction, I would be very happy to share that information and work constructively and collaboratively with all the devolved Administrations, including in Northern Ireland.

Off-road Biking

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I did not expect to be called so early, Mrs Latham, so thank you for doing so. I congratulate the hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) on securing this debate on a subject that I have some knowledge of, primarily because of my role as an MP. It is clear to me that there are people who use quads legitimately. The hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Sir Bill Wiggin), who intervened earlier, is probably in the same category as me. There are those who use them for a purpose, but there are others who abuse the system. I will refer to both categories.

As a landowner, I have quads on the land to help with farming and basic upkeep. They are an essential tool. We had one for the boys when they were small, probably for fun, but now we use it for a purpose. It is used on the farm almost every day of the week. I know a number of farmers who use a motorbike to help them move their livestock across their fields, and they also use a motorbike or a quad in areas that their jeeps or tractors have difficulty crossing. It is probably niftier and quicker on a quad than it is on a tractor or a four-wheel drive.

I taught my boys early to use a quad safely and to enjoy doing so. I am all for the appropriate use of scramblers and quads as needed. However, I also made it clear to my boys at an early stage, and now to my grandchildren, that those were for use on our own land, with an awareness of the impact on other people’s land. In other words, they do not use them anywhere else unless it is legitimate or permission has been granted.

Such consideration used to be universally accepted, but increasingly I come across farmers who are upset at the high level of damage to their crop land by those who come with their quads or scramblers and set up a cross-country course. This has also been a problem on council land, with actual tracks set up without permission or, indeed, insurance in place, so there is an issue if something goes wrong. Many landowners find themselves in a difficult position if they have not taken steps to stop it happening. If somebody has an accident on the land, they could find themselves culpable for any injuries.

I have been at the home of people whose peace and quiet has been destroyed by scramblers on wasteland behind them and whose fence and property have also been damaged. It is clear that councils need to have greater fines and enforcement powers to help deal with the antisocial behaviour problems that off-road bikes cause.

I also wish to put on record that Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick in the House of Lords and I pushed for legislation to have a safety roll bar over the tops of quads because a friend of ours was killed in an accident on a quad. We feel that safety is important and pertinent. That is not the Minister’s responsibility, but I want to highlight that issue and ensure that quads are safe for those who use them.

On the usage of land, I wish to differentiate between organised groups and individuals who have no care or thought for others. I offer my support to those who wish to find areas to carry out and enjoy their sport sensibly and responsibly with insurance in place. I worked with a motorbike group involved in scrambling. When I was on the council before coming to this place in 2010, I worked alongside them and other representatives to ensure that they got some land to use at the Whitespots between Newtownards and Bangor. They wanted to do it correctly and provide insurance cover. There are organisations that wish to do that, and we should work alongside them, to ensure that their sport can be delivered. That was done in partnership with Ards Borough Council, which is now known as Ards and North Down Borough Council. The council plans for Conlig and Whitespots include setting aside that portion of land for that group, which seeks safety and does not want to annoy people, in a way that is controlled, regulated and monitored. There are ways to do that.

My local council has sought to provide land to host scheduled organised events, such as the Ulster MTB XC championships, held at Whitespots, but it has neither the finances or manpower to provide good circuits and venues to help facilitate this sensible sport, without help and support from central Government. I add my voice to calls for councils to receive additional funding. That portion of land that we got from the council some time ago was land exclusively for the club’s use, so it does not match the requirements and regulations of an organised event. That is why that was unable to be taken forward.

In closing, my three boys were blessed with space to enjoy their quads. My grandchildren—the two eldest girls of eight and 14—are also blessed to have the same opportunity to use the quad on our land. I believe that the Government can step up to help provide facilities to give a standard of safety, as well as prevent farmland and livestock from being harmed by those who see a field and just want a wee jaunt.

Let us recognise that there is a valid sport, with a need to be helped, but those who have no care must be held accountable. Those are the people the hon. Member for Darlington referred to—those who have total disrespect. We have to draw a differential between the two: those who do it legitimately and try to work within the law, and those who disregard the law. Today’s debate is important to highlight the issue, as the hon. Member for Darlington has done, and others will do shortly. Although not responsible for Northern Ireland, the Minister is always very responsible and comes back with answers to our questions.

I always try to add a Northern Ireland perspective to a debate; colleagues would never expect anything else from an MP from Northern Ireland. I think it adds to the debate and gives an idea of what we have done in my constituency of Strangford, working alongside clubs to make it happen, while highlighting the issue of those who have no regard for landowners. We need to ensure that the law of the land is in place so that it can regulate and punish, if necessary, those who damage land or property.

Antisemitism in the UK

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue. Gathering outside a synagogue with the purpose of intimidating people coming out is completely unacceptable. That is not protest; it is deliberate intimidation, and it has no place on our streets whatsoever. The police have substantial powers to act in this area; I will not recite all the various sections and Acts, but the police have numerous powers to act. We have regular meetings with policing leaders—one is coming up in just a few days—and I will certainly be raising this point. If my hon. Friend could send me a couple of examples, I would be very happy to raise them with the Metropolitan police in the coming days.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his statement, for his robust answers and for his strength of purpose in supporting Jewish people across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; he is very clearly doing that. Have discussions taken place with the devolved Administrations, in particular the Northern Ireland Assembly, regarding a support fund for those who feel unsafe in their current homes and need help to move to a safe place, bearing in mind that we are now in a scenario where Jewish families are staying indoors—afraid to go out unless it is essential—due to so-called peace protesters who are making our streets feel unsafe for a section of our community?

Investigatory Powers (Amendment) Bill [Lords]

Jim Shannon Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 19th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I thank all right hon. and hon Members for their contributions. This is a complex issue, and that is clear from the level of scrutiny and debate we have seen thus far. The Bill seeks to find a balance—the shadow Home Secretary referred to that very word, “balance”—between necessary investigatory powers and not having a Big Brother, nanny state.

I thank, as others have done, the security forces and those involved in the intelligence sector for all that they do, their work and their commitment and dedication to the job, which have made all our lives safer. Many in this House—I know a few, anyway—could say that they owe their lives to them, and I would be one of them. I thank them very much for all they have done.

I am keen to see work on international terrorism. I was talking to my friend, the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), about how international terrorism works. The Real IRA has contacts in the middle east and eastern Europe. It has contacts where all evil organisations come together, because their ultimate intention is to create havoc and murder innocent people. This Bill is important, because it can address terrorism in Northern Ireland and its contacts with international terrorism. I hope and pray that the work will be successful. As someone who has lived through years of terrorism, I am well used to curtailed freedoms, with checkpoints and stop and search. I have understood the necessity for that and have been thankful for those protections. Let me be clear: I have no issue whatever with this Bill in principle, but I have some questions for the Minister.

Various constituents have contacted me to express concerns, and I want to put those on record, ever mindful of supporting the Government on this issue as measures come forward. I will take a few moments to seek some clarification. First, a concern has been outlined to me about having a notification requirement to require operators to inform the Secretary of State if they propose to make changes to their products or services, and I am sure that other Members have received that briefing. Open Rights Group states:

“While this objective may appear to be reasonable, it would allow the Home Office to prevent secure services from launching in the UK, even where they are rolled out elsewhere. This provision would allow the Home Office to place itself in a position of power over the provider as soon as it hears about the possibility of data being less accessible than it is currently. This situation would take place without reference to an independent authority to assess the rationale or proportionality. Such a move might not be proportionate, for instance, if the security technology had already been introduced safely and with demonstrable benefits to users in other parts of the world.

Open Rights Group is concerned that these powers could deny people the access to technological developments upon which people’s free expression and right to privacy rely. For example, major tech providers such as Apple have stated that they would pull certain services from the UK rather than compromise their security if this power was used to prevent them from rolling out security updates.”

I gently ask the Minister to be clear about why the presumption should not be made in the manner I outlined and what discussions have taken place to ensure that providers such as Apple can work securely in the UK. The right hon. and learned Member for Fareham (Suella Braverman) referred to the dark web and all the things that can happen in it. It is really important that the dark web is taken care of in this legislation.

Also highlighted to me were end-to-end encryption issues and the inability of service providers to see service users’ content in their apps and systems. I am not a technical whizz kid; I am the very opposite. I am of that old generation who can just about do text messages on their phone and turn on Zoom meetings, but if something goes wrong, I am lost. When it comes to technology, I am not au fait with it, but I do know this. I understand the need for people with no question mark above them whatsoever to know that their messages are private and that the Government are not storing information—that could be accessed by others—on them for no reason. It is important that that never happens.

Data breaches affected staff in my office when my accounts in the House were hacked in the last fortnight. We let the security people know, and I understand that it is not unusual for it to happen, but when it does and people’s content is accessed, it is important that such breaches are taken care of. We have also had the breach of data on police officers in Northern Ireland. Those are both testament to the fact that breaches occur. Therefore, only what is essential should ever be gathered and stored. Reference was made to the need to have robust monitoring and regulation. If that had been in place, the Police Service of Northern Ireland data breaches, which I think disadvantaged more than 3,500 people, would never have happened.

While I cannot browse and shop online—I have no interest in doing so—watch TV programmes online or do any of those other things, I do believe that there is a need for privacy. My concern is that the Bill is encroaching too far on those whom the Government have no reason to hold data on. I ask the Minister again to make it clear why any online search history should be stored. These are gentle questions—they are not meant to be intrusive or aggressive—but it is important that I put these matters on the record on behalf of the constituents who have contacted me.

I highlight the concerns of my constituent that the Bill’s proposed measures are poised to

“profoundly impact political dissidents and opposition figures residing in the UK. Refugees, political exiles and human rights advocates who have sought refuge in the UK deserve the assurance of digital safety and security.”

I seek that assurance for those who have fled offensive and oppressive regimes and sought refuge in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I would further appreciate an insight into how we can ensure that there is freedom to express opposition, yet not see harmful rhetoric. That balance is clearly difficult to reach. I seek the necessary clarification that we have struck that balance. I very much look forward to hearing from the Minister, because I believe that his response will encapsulate the questions we have asked and give us the answers that we desire.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

We come now to the wind-ups.

Protest Measures

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Tom Tugendhat]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and he is absolutely right that the level of antisemitism we have seen has been utterly unacceptable and the fear that has been spread, sadly, among the Jewish community in the United Kingdom has been utterly vile. It is simply intolerable to have parts of our community feeling unsafe to walk, shop or do whatever they choose on the streets of our capital. It is completely wrong.

The powers in this instruction or ruling will be for the police to deploy as operationally appropriate. However, I am sure that police officers and police chiefs around the United Kingdom will have heard my hon. Friend’s point and will have recognised it. I should point out that, since the 7 October protests began, more than 600 arrests have been made in relation to those protests. The police take this extremely seriously, and about 30 of those arrests have been related to TACT—Terrorism Act 2000—offences. That should, I hope, reassure all communities across this country that this Government and these police officers take these offences extremely seriously, and they will be using all the powers at their disposal to protect everyone in the United Kingdom.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I am someone who knows the politics and lifestyle of Northern Ireland and who lived through the troubles, and we protested on many occasions, but the one thing we never did was wear a mask. I therefore very much welcome the legislation coming forward today. The right to protest is an important right in a democratic society and country, but I firmly believe that things should be done decently and in order, which means people having the courage of their convictions and having their face uncovered. People wearing a mask at a protest, whether they be pro-Hamas protesters or hunt saboteurs, are breaking the law, and I would be very pleased to see them jailed and fined for the activity of wearing a mask. Will the Minister outline how soon changes can be put in place, and whether discussions are ongoing with the Northern Ireland Assembly—it is back on its feet again, and Ministers are in place—to ensure that the legislation initiated here can apply across all of this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[Tom Tugendhat]

I greatly welcome the hon. Member’s comments, but he will know that, perhaps not so often in Strangford, but some people did wear balaclavas in the protests that I saw in Northern Ireland.

[Jim Shannon]

I didn’t.

[Tom Tugendhat]

I am sure the hon. Member was not one of them; there is absolutely no suggestion that he could ever be one of them. I think that would surprise quite literally everyone in this House. I am grateful for his support. This measure will clearly need to be worked on, and we have already begun conversations with the Northern Ireland Office, but areas of work will be required across the United Kingdom. Police chiefs are already aware of this and have been asking for these powers, and that is why they are coming into place.

Deportation of Foreign National Offenders

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First, I thank the hon. Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean) for her speech. I have to put this on the record, and forgive me, Mr Gray, for having to do so, but I am a bit perplexed. I am very fond of the hon. Lady, and she knows that. I am a Christian, I have Christian faith, and I am chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, so I speak up for those of Christian faith, those of other faiths and those with no faith.

I am trying to say this as gently as I can, but I have people in my constituency who have converted to Christianity—or whatever they may do, but I know people who have done that. They were never a threat because they said that they had become Christians. I am sorry to say this, but I have some concern about how the hon. Lady, for whom I have the utmost respect, introduced the debate: it seemed as if every person who has converted to Christianity is potentially a criminal. I have to say this: the ones that I know are not, and I have to put that on the record. That is not what my speech was meant to be about, by the way—I will move on to the substance of it—but I felt a bit concerned.

Those who convert to Christianity, who have done it for the right reasons, because that is what their faith, their beliefs or their God has told them, have that right to do so, and they should not be condemned because they have done it. The hon. Member for Redditch knows I am incredibly fond of her, but I am sorry, I felt really uneasy about that. I have to put that on the record, and I wanted to do it now, before I speak about the content of the debate. I welcome, properly, what the hon. Lady said, which mirrors some of what I want to say. I am not saying that everyone is an angel—no, they are not—but most of those who convert to Christianity do so for genuine reasons and should be respected. I will leave it at that—I do not want to develop it any further; I do not want to be adversarial or to have a different opinion.

Despite conflicting opinions among Members about immigration and asylum seeking, we in the UK pride ourselves on being a compassionate country that provides safety for those in need and is well known for believing that we have a duty to help others. That has always been my gut feeling. All my life I have wanted to help others and all my life in this place I have tried to do that.

For some, aid should take place in the home country, and for others, we should open our doors, but that comes with a huge condition, and that is what I am going to develop in my contribution to the debate: that people should respect the law of the land and understand that if they do not, the door is permanently closed. I am quite clear about that—the hon. Member for Redditch and I will agree on that. That part of the contribution I understand incredibly well. For those who break that trust, it is crucial that justice is served and that they are ultimately removed from our country. It is our country, and for all of us here and all our constituents, the safety of our people is crucial, critical and important.

In June 2023, at least 10,321 foreign nationals were in prison across England and Wales. More locally for myself—I always give a Northern Ireland perspective, although deportation issues lie here with the House, which has the final say—around 10.6% of those in Northern Ireland prisons were foreign nationals as of 2022.

The Home Secretary and Home Office have a duty to this country to issue deportation orders for those who have been convicted of an offence in the UK and sentenced to at least 12 months, unless certain exceptions apply. I cannot stress enough the importance of securing safety and protection for the general public. If that is the thrust of this debate, and I believe it is, then let us focus on that. We hear horror stories every day in our local papers and on the news of all sorts of crimes, including what happened to that poor lady and her two children—my goodness me. They are committed not just by foreign nationals but by our own people, and we are trying to gain control over and manage them.

There is no doubt that our justice system has been fragmented in the past, and there have been many calls from our constituents to get the issues of court hearing delays and lenient prosecutions sorted. I do not see how we can give many more excuses for continuing to house foreign national offenders in UK prisons if they are guilty of the heinous crimes of rape, murder or whatever they may be. Statistics show that our prisons have been severely over-subscribed in certain areas for a number of years, and that has meant prisoners being left in custody for longer than needed or left in county jails.

The Government have stated on a number of occasions that the deportation of foreign national offenders is a long-standing Government priority, but as of 2022 there were still almost 12,000 foreign national offenders subject to deportation action living in the community. We must direct ourselves to that issue. The constituents in the communities we represent have a right to feel safe in the areas they live and work in—not just for themselves, but for their children and grandchildren.

I will conclude, because many people want to contribute. We are a compassionate country: we welcome foreign nationals and the contributions they make to our nation. But there must also be a clear understanding that crime, no matter how petty, is not to be tolerated, and that it has consequences. I look to my Government and my Minister to ensure that our actions meet our words. If this is a priority, let us follow through and ensure that we have the necessary means to deport those who do not follow the laws and guidelines of this country. Perhaps the Minister can respond with his plans to reduce the number down from the thousands to as small a number as possible.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Truly, the world is becoming a hostile place. The more we watch what happens across the world, the more we are convinced of the evil intent of many. I thank the Minister for his statement, clarity and strength of intention. I know that my party will fully support him, as we always do when it comes to these matters.

The reasons for the proscription have been clearly outlined by others. It is important that we do something in relation to the Hamas murders of 1,200 innocent Israelis, the taking of hostages, the continuing war of aggression and their view about the annihilation of the Israelis. In the UK, we want to play our part. The Minister has outlined how we can take on the terrorist activities and intentions of those who march in the streets and think they have a status above the law of the land. Today, quite clearly, they do not, and we welcome that.

The right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) always speaks with much wisdom and brings forward issues that we all endorse in their entirety. The proscription of the IRGC is critical because it funds, trains and gives weapons to many terrorist organisations across the world. We need to take that proscription a stage further, on top of this one, and do that with a zest. I am ever mindful that 79 organisations have been proscribed already.

As a Northern Ireland MP, I am obviously aware of the issues, as is the right hon. and gallant Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat), from his personal point of view, having served in the Army and now as the Minister for Security. The Real IRA and the New IRA have been most active, and the threat level in Northern Ireland is at a height we have not seen for some time. There have been a number of demonstrations across Northern Ireland and we are ever mindful of international terrorism, as those who want to murder, destabilise, kill, maim and destroy come together, wherever they may be from.

I am conscious that it is not always appropriate for the Minister to answer certain questions in the Chamber, but I want to put on the record my concerns about the connections between IRA republicanism and international terrorism. During the demonstrations that have taken place across Northern Ireland, things were said and done that should never have been done in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where I am great believer in unity and being better together.

On commitment by police forces, has the Minister had the opportunity to speak to the forces here on the mainland and to the Police Service of Northern Ireland, to ensure that they collectively take on Hizb ut-Tahrir, the terrorist organisation proscribed today? I am sure he has, but it would be nice to have that on the record. It is important that we are unified on the issue, as we are in the Chamber, especially when it comes to intelligence gathering and working collectively. Police forces need to be able to exchange their points of view and the intelligence that they gather to ensure that they protect our citizens across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which we all have a duty to do. The proscription today is a step in the right direction, but I hope the Minister can provide some reassurance on my final points.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 15th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

We are seeing escalating consumption and movement of drugs in Northern Ireland, and the drugs are coming from England and the Republic of Ireland. What discussions will the Minister have with the Republic of Ireland to ensure that we stop drugs crossing the border? We want to stop them coming from England, too.

[Chris Philp]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. Of course, one feature of the island of Ireland is that there is essentially no border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and he has alluded to the various challenges that poses. I would be happy to take up that issue and to see what more we can do to disrupt the supply of drugs north-south and east-west. I thank him for raising the issue.

Tackling Spiking

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Laura Farris]

What a brilliant idea! Of course I thank the local organisations that my hon. Friend mentions. This has been a collective effort. Perhaps representing Parliament is at its best when so many MPs have worked with their local authorities or local charities, or have heard the voices of victims who have come to see them in their surgeries, and relayed all that into Government. We have drawn all that information together and got to where we are today but, honestly, without the testimony and hard work of so many local groups such as the ones she mentions, we probably would not be here now.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister very much for the second good news story that we have heard today in this Chamber. We are very pleased to have that. Can I also thank the hon. Members for Gloucester (Richard Graham) and for Bradford South (Judith Cummins) and others in this House who have contributed to this potential legislation? It is great to hear these announcements on tackling spiking, especially as we approach the Christmas period when so many young people—and elderly people as well—are attending Christmas parties and events across the whole of the United Kingdom. As I understand it, the changes to the legislation will apply to the 43 police forces in England and Wales. The Minister referred to 5,000 cases on the UK mainland. Just to give her an idea of the impact in Northern Ireland, we had 120 cases there in one month. Will she ensure that discussions take place with the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the relevant Government Departments to ensure that we in Northern Ireland can adopt this same legislation and keep our people safe as well?

[Laura Farris]

I am rapidly doing the maths, and it looks as though the scale of the problem in Northern Ireland is at the same level as it is everywhere else in the country. I will make a note that we undertake to work carefully with that force and ensure that there is standardisation across the United Kingdom.