Future of the Gas Grid

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 18th June 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, as always, Dame Siobhain. I give special thanks to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Josh Newbury) for leading today’s debate. We were counting down the last 10 seconds before the debate and the hon. Gentleman walked in on No. 8 —well done! He may have been a bit breathless. I wish him a happy birthday and thank him for his contributions in this House during the time that he has been here. They are always on subject matter that we are all interested in.

If we want to be progressive and visionary in this House, which we do, we need to look to the future for the things that are important. All areas of the United Kingdom are adapting their own strategies to contribute to net zero. Northern Ireland has set a target of net zero emissions by 2050, and developing renewable energy will be a key part of those plans. It is very important that we play our part. The hon. Member for Peterborough (Andrew Pakes) referred a number of times to the whole of the United Kingdom. He is right, because like me and others in this Chamber, with one exception, we are committed to this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and what we can do better together—not that we are better than anyone else, by the way. We see the advantages and it is important that we look forward.

I welcome the Minister to his place. I always enjoy the Minister’s responses to our questions. He seems relaxed no matter how hard the questions are. I will not ask any hard questions; it is not in my nature to do so, but I do ask questions to hopefully progress the debate. The Minister knows that my questions will come from a Northern Ireland perspective. He has always answered in the past on what we want to do and what our strategies are back home. I look forward to his contribution. It is also nice to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy), in his place and I look forward to his contribution as well.

Only last year Northern Ireland’s gas operators took their biomethane case to Stormont. There are two operators, but I want to focus on Phoenix Gas. It has been stated that adding biomethane to the gas network could cut Northern Ireland’s carbon emissions where we have ambitious, but very much achievable, targets. Doing so would deliver significant benefits and create hundreds of new jobs. It is where the potential is. Northern Ireland wants to play its part because the spin-offs for us all are quite significant. Arguments for that include that biomethane is almost identical to natural gas and can be transported through the existing gas pipelines, as the hon. Member for Cannock Chase mentioned. As we have already seen, it has been successfully injected into the gas network at Granville Ecopark in Dungannon. There is a strategy in place and significant progress there, but there is still a lot more to do.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

My hon. Friend talked about Phoenix, and the other company is Firmus Energy. Consumers want to see more competitive pricing. In Northern Ireland, there is some degree of competitive pricing, but because the two companies operate in separate parts of Northern Ireland, they do not compete directly with each other. Consumers want prices to be driven down, but it seems to take a long time for Phoenix and Firmus to reduce their prices—they do not always change rapidly—when international gas prices fall.

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight that issue. Yesterday, in the hydrogen aviation debate, we talked about how costly energy is at the moment. In the past, we had the tidal wave and sea project in the Narrows in Portaferry in my constituency. The pilot scheme was successful in showing that it could be done, but it did not provide a cheaper price. Today, however, it could. I am quite confident that with a better understanding, and better offers for the supply of gas grid in Northern Ireland, we could ensure that prices would drop—I am confident that they will.

The operators pointed to research by the Centre for Advanced Sustainable Energy Research, which shows that biomethane has the potential to supply 6,000 GWh a year, equal to about 80% of the current gas distribution network demands. That shows the potential, and that it can be done. It would reduce Northern Ireland’s CO₂ emissions by some 845,000 tonnes per annum, a fantastic contribution to net zero targets. That shows how Northern Ireland and the UK can work better together and contribute to net zero targets collectively, with advantages for us all. What is done here in England helps us in Northern Ireland, and vice versa.

Yesterday, I spoke in Westminster Hall on the potential benefits of hydrogen in aviation, as I referred to earlier. There are numerous sectors in which hydrogen could play a key role in the transition. The UK Government aim to establish up to 100 GW of low-carbon hydrogen production capacity by 2030. The national gas grid is leading efforts to develop a hydrogen transmission backbone that will repurpose existing gas pipelines to transport hydrogen. Those visionary projects, which can deliver much for us all, are well in hand, but there is a lot more to do.

I look forward to hearing and witnessing how those developments play out in the future. There is so much that the devolved Administrations and institutions in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can do to play a role in the transition to net zero, and this is one of those ways. I ask the Minister very kindly to engage, as I know he does, with the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment back home to ensure that we can be leaders in our green and net zero plans together. Within this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we can do that. Even our friends in Scotland can benefit and help us to benefit. That is the goal I try to achieve in this place.

[Seamus Logan]

I cannot let the hon. Gentleman get away with these continual references to Scotland. Of course, whatever the future constitutional arrangements—they are in some doubt—the gas network on this side supplies not only Ireland but, as I understand it, Belgium and part of the Netherlands. There is already a shared international context in how the grid operates.

[Jim Shannon]

Of course there is. The hon. Gentleman is a product of Northern Ireland, as his accent shows—although he is now very much a Scottish nationalist—and I believe he recognises the importance of working together. Whether that is within the United Kingdom or further afield is not the issue. I never want to see Scotland moving away from us, because he is my Gaelic cousin, and together with many others, we have the same history and culture; we just have a different idea about the constitution. The people of Scotland, of course, have already spoken on the constitution and, although I know that is a different debate, I say very clearly that we are always better together.

Nuclear Power: Investment

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and the clear positivity in every word he has said. I very much welcome the news that nuclear energy is to be secured for the United Kingdom, bringing job security and many contracts, and we look forward to seeing how we can all benefit across this great nation. Can he confirm that companies from the United Kingdom will be able to secure contracts to supply materials and manpower? How can Government ensure that each area of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will benefit from this massive investment?

[Ed Miliband]

It is really important that there is a four-nations approach to the supply chain contracts; that is something I am very keen to ensure. There will be thousands of contracts in the supply chain, with huge opportunities for Northern Ireland, and I am determined to deliver them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Miatta Fahnbulleh]

We know there are parts of the country where homes are not up to standard and families are struggling with bills. That is why our warm homes plan is so important. We will target homes across the country and ensure that we provide a range of measures, from insulation through to solar and heat pumps, so we can ensure that homes are warmer and cheaper to run.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Happy birthday, Mr Speaker! Like me, you don’t count the years; you make the years count. You are doing very well at that.

I welcome the Minister’s answer. She has in the past been keen to ensure that Northern Ireland does not lose out on schemes. Yesterday, the decision on the winter fuel payment was announced to the House, which we all welcome. The Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Swansea West (Torsten Bell), was clear that the legislation starts here, but help for Northern Ireland will come from here as well. Will there be the same help for those in Northern Ireland, who need it as much as people here?

[Miatta Fahnbulleh]

We are working across all nations to ensure that households get the support that they need. I will be in Northern Ireland next week, where I will talk to the devolved Administration about how we can work together to ensure that homes across the country are supported.

Battery Energy Storage Sites: Safety Regulations

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 5th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[John Milne]

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s intervention. I agree that such sites can be in remote locations where there are fewer resources. As I will say later in my remarks, fire officer training is very much part of what I am recommending.

There is a strong case for mandating water-based suppression systems, off-gas detection, ventilation systems and thermal runaway mitigation as design conditions. Unfortunately, that is far from the case today. The guidelines for planning approval are imprecise and vary across the devolved nations. Currently, the burden of responsibility falls on individual local authority planning officers who have no specific training or background in lithium-ion technology—and why on earth would they?

For reasons that are hard to understand—perhaps the Minister can explain—fire and rescue services have not been made statutory consultees for planning applications. The current guidance states that applicants are “encouraged to engage” rather than required to do so, but even compulsory consultation is not enough by itself because the fire services themselves do not always have the expertise. Within the last fortnight, Henry Griffin, Suffolk’s deputy chief fire officer asked for fire services to be given new powers, saying:

“I’d like to see a power that is akin to a regulatory order like those for a commercial property, where we would have the power to enforce safety measures on those sites.”

He explained that the fire service is currently just a “contributing partner”, able to give “direction and professional advice”, but not necessarily to require what it might like.

The result is inconsistency, which is destructive both of public trust and of the success of the industry. In my own constituency of Horsham, the local planning authority has rejected a BESS application, while a similar site, just half a mile away, across the border in Mid Sussex, has won approval. Such inconsistencies show alarming parallels with Grenfell. The Grenfell disaster was the end result of many failings by both individuals and companies, but at heart it was a failure of regulation. The rules left things wide open for exploitation by cost-cutting developers, which is exactly what happened. Just as with lithium-ion batteries, a new technology—in that case cladding—was being used at scale for the first time, without proper understanding of the risks. The time to act is now because the number of BESS applications is expanding exponentially.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing the debate. He is right to highlight the issues around lithium-ion batteries and thermal runaway; we are all reminded of explosions and fires in Liverpool in 2019 and in Kilwinning, in Scotland, in 2025. He referred to the need for legislation for the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but that needs to start here. Is it his intention to ask the Minister to confirm in her response that that will happen, so that the legislation can then fan out to Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales?

[John Milne]

The hon. Gentleman is better acquainted than I am with the way that devolution works, but yes, I hope that the Minister will be able to set out whatever course of action is required to get to that point.

It is essential that we build battery energy storage sites to proper safety standards so that we do not find ourselves facing the need for a massively more expensive retrofit, with consequences for the entire energy network.

What accidents have there been so far? In September 2020, a fire at a BESS site in Liverpool created a significant blast and took 59 hours to extinguish. Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service said that the blaze on Carnegie Road

“appears to be the first significant fire of its type to occur within the UK”.

However, this was only a small BESS, with just four containers and a modest 20 MWh output in total.

Great British Energy Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Consideration of Lords message
Wednesday 14th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I reiterate and support what the hon. Lady and the shadow Minister have said. I understand that this Bill applies to all the regions, including Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. One concern raised with me by my colleagues in the Assembly is slave labour and what is happening to the Uyghur Muslims in particular. The view of the Assembly back home in Northern Ireland—I was a Member of it, although I am not now, of course—is that this legislation is important, so I welcome what the Government have put in place and thank the hon. Lady for outlining all the people who have contributed to making sure this change happens, including the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief.

[Pippa Heylings]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention.

We have to name the report “In Broad Daylight” from Sheffield Hallam University, which found that all solar industry-relevant polysilicon producers in the Uyghur region were either using state-sponsored labour transfers of Uyghurs or were sourcing from companies that were. As we speak, 2.7 million Uyghurs are subject to forced labour and political re-education camps. We cannot allow our green future to be built on the backs of enslaved people. My constituents in South Cambridgeshire do not expect their solar panels to be made by child labourers in the Democratic Republic of the Congo or enslaved Uyghurs in Xinjiang, and I do not expect that Ministers do either—and they are right.

I understand that the Government will not be supporting the amendment (a) to Lords amendment 2B, tabled by the hon. Member for Rotherham, which is about definitions. Definitions really matter. The definition of slavery and how it is interpreted needs to be clear. This amendment would make it clear that the definition of slavery includes forced labour, state-imposed forced labour, exploitative child labour, abuses of workers’ rights and dangerous working conditions. It would be good to hear from the Minister about how the working groups that he is already working on will ensure that there are no loopholes, no grey areas and no convenient ignorance. The amendment would incorporate and put into practice the International Labour Organisation’s definition. How will that ILO standard be put into practice?

We have progress, but it is not the end; it is the beginning. Lord Alton said:

“The Joint Committee on Human Rights is close to completing an inquiry which is likely to call for a comprehensive overhaul of the Modern Slavery Act 2015.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 30 April 2025; Vol. 845, c. 1238.]

This is the opportunity to look seriously at the model set by the United States’ Uyghur Forced Labour Prevention Act, which introduces a rebuttable presumption that goods linked to Xinjiang are the product of forced labour, unless clear and convincing evidence can be shown to the contrary. Embedding a similar presumption into UK law would shift the burden of proof away from vulnerable victims and place it firmly on those who profit. It would close those loopholes that have allowed exploitation to flourish unchecked.

As my colleague Earl Russell in the other House rightly noted, we also need international co-ordination. I urge the Minister to update this House on efforts to work with like-minded partners in Europe and elsewhere to eliminate slavery from all our supply chains—those not just of GB Energy, but of all energy companies. Great British Energy, as the Minister said, has a chance to lead by example not just on innovation and independence, but on moral integrity.

New Nuclear Projects: Wylfa

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 7th May 2025 Westminster Hall

[Llinos Medi]

We need to make sure we do not lose the nuclear legacy in Wylfa and Trawsfynydd and the can-do attitude of our workforce, and we must make sure these sites work for those communities.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady. All the time that I have known her and the leader of her party here, the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), their commitment to nuclear has never been in doubt. Does the hon. Lady agree that it is essential that we safely implement a new nuclear power strategy that will ensure we have capability and capacity, as well as energy resilience—a topic that is foremost in our minds after the devastating effects of the power cuts in Europe? Does she also agree that it is possible to achieve net zero hand in hand with nuclear options?

[Llinos Medi]

Nuclear is an important component of reaching our clean energy goal of net zero and bringing costs down, which I will touch on later in my speech.

Wylfa is located in a perfect site. It is on higher ground with hard bedrock, ideal for construction of a nuclear power station. The risks of coastal flooding, erosion and sea level rises are considered to be low. Its proximity to seawater means there is a readily available and abundant supply of cooling water. The site has nuclear heritage, with an existing grid connection established in 1971. However, that is at risk of being taken up by a large solar farm on the island—all the more reason for the Government to commit to the site before the opportunity is lost.

Significant work has already been accomplished at the site by Horizon to characterise the site and to seek licences and planning consent. There is considerable public and political support for the project, both nationally and locally. Vendors are serious about the site. The Nuclear Industry Association has told me that it has hosted several interested vendors who want to build at Wylfa, but are waiting for the Government’s plan. What discussions has the Minister had with developers regarding the Wylfa site? Is the Government’s lack of clarity deterring investment?

The Government have argued that regulations are stifling new nuclear. They claim that

“The industry pioneered in Britain has been suffocated by regulations and this saw investment collapse, leaving only one nuclear power plant—Hinkley Point C—under construction.”

Rather than overburdensome regulations, in fact political will is the reason Wylfa has been left behind. During the 2024 general election, Labour pledged to

“end a decade of dithering that has seen the Conservatives duck decisions on nuclear power.”

At present, it seems that this pattern of delays and false dawns is continuing, which is all the more shocking when we consider the fact that the original planning application was lodged for Wylfa B in April 1989—36 years ago.

Let us compare ourselves with other countries that are pushing ahead with new nuclear projects, such as the Czech Republic. Within five years, the Czech Government have gone from endorsing new nuclear at Dukovany in July 2019 to issuing tenders to developers shortly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, recognising the urgency of developing domestic energy generation capabilities, and are now on the verge of signing a fixed-price contract for two gigawatt nuclear power reactors at the price of $17 billion, which comes with a guarantee of at least $10 billion in work for the local area. Why can my community, which has been promised new nuclear at Wylfa for 50 years, not have the same benefits as Dukovany? What lessons are the Government drawing from the decisive steps that countries such as the Czech Republic have taken to invest in their nuclear industries in recent years?

What benefits would new nuclear at Wylfa bring to local people? It is estimated that a gigawatt plant at Wylfa would create 850 long-term jobs and 10,000 in the shorter-term construction. It would generate £90 million in wages annually for the local economy and likely nearly £40 million in business rates. The impact would be incredible, given that the decline of stable, well-paid employment in north Anglesey has left the area with fewer than 2,300 jobs. The project would bring good, well-paying, long-term jobs to north Wales, an area in desperate need of opportunity and new industry.

The Horizon project plan for Wylfa also estimated that 45% of the operational staff at the site would have come from north Wales and Anglesey, helping to draw back and retain Welsh speakers on the island. Wages would be well above the Anglesey average of £630 per week, helping to reverse the rising deprivation, low wages and economic inactivity in the region. Nuclear workers in Wales and the whole of the UK contributed around £102,300 per person in gross value added in 2022, four times the Welsh average of £23,804 per person. Construction of a large modular reactor at Wylfa would generate £5 billion in opportunities for the supply chain. A gigawatt project would be the single biggest inward investment in Welsh history.

The Government say that their No. 1 priority is growth. Backing investment in Wylfa is an obvious way to improve livelihoods and secure our energy supply for the long term. Despite those clear advantages, however, I am concerned about the Government’s approach: they have removed the list of designated sites, which included Wylfa, from their new nuclear planning policy. Their decision to consult on a new planning policy without committing to established sites such as Wylfa is creating damaging uncertainty and deterring the very investments we need.

I reiterate that Wylfa is the best site in Europe for a new nuclear project. What we need now is a clear strategic business case, a funding commitment and a timeline that gives developers the confidence to move forward. Of course I am supportive of future nuclear developments, including the next generation technologies such as small and advanced modular reactors, being prioritised at existing sites approved under the previous nuclear planning policy documents, which includes Wylfa, before other sites are looked at.

I will conclude by saying that it is astonishing that Wylfa, a site with proven capability, global potential and cross-party support, has been stuck in limbo for decades. People in Ynys Môn are fed up with the Labour Government, and the Tories before them, dragging their feet on this. Investors are ready, the community is supportive and the need for clean, secure energy has never been greater. What we need now is leadership, a clear decision, a funding commitment and a timeline to match the urgency of the moment. Will the Government finally give the people of Ynys Môn assurance that Wylfa will play a central part in their mission for the UK to become a clean energy superpower? Diolch.

Energy Resilience

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 6th May 2025 Westminster Hall

[Tom Collins (Worcester) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered energy resilience.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Efford. I submitted this motion before the power failures at Heathrow and the Iberian peninsula, before the latest run of cyber-attacks, and before international conditions led us to increase our spending on defence. A more volatile and uncertain future is changing the question that we expect our energy system to answer but, as an engineer who spent years working on low-carbon energy technology, I know that the question changed before that.

The question changed when offshore wind became our cheapest source of electricity and when the payback period for photovoltaics dropped below just a handful of years. The question changed when the world woke up to renewables and we, an island nation with exceptional wind resource, favourable geology and a skilled energy sector, realised that we could become a clean energy superpower.

The prize is lower bills, increased security and the re-industrialisation of our economy, with all the jobs, innovation, trade and growth that come with it. To win that prize, our electricity system will need to double in capacity, accommodate dispersed, wild and unpredictable generation, and support varying demands that will become more mission-critical for our economy and everyday lives.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing the debate forward. Whether we like it or not, we must be aware of and consider these important matters. The Climate Change Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 established that the Department for the Economy must ensure that at least 80% of electricity consumption is from renewable sources by 2030. Unless we can harness reliable tidal energy, we are dependent on conditions that cannot be predicted. That must be considered.

[Tom Collins]

Yes, diverse energy sources will be critical for future system resilience.

The Minister has clearly shown that the operational constraints for a robust electricity grid are known and in hand. The challenges of a future electricity system go far beyond those we face today. Three quarters of a century ago, when our energy systems were built in the shadow of world wars, resilience was front and centre, but the guiding star was efficiency, ensuring that energy taken from the ground was transferred with minimal loss. The defining challenge of tomorrow is to take energy that appears in places and at times determined by the weather, and deliver it in places and at times determined by the people who depend on it.

North Sea Oil and Gas Workers: Transitional Support

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I thank the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) for raising this issue. Although we will not always be aligned on all things—I can think of one in particular—the need to support workers is something we can certainly share a view on. What an introduction by the hon. Lady, who set the scene so well with detailed information and incredible knowledge. It is a great pleasure to see the Minister in his place. His commitment is never in doubt, and I think we will be reassured by his answers. It is also a pleasure to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie). We look forward to his contribution, too.

The North sea oil and gas industry employs an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 workers in the UK. A significant portion is concentrated along the east and north-east coast, but I remind everyone that, while that may be the thrust of where the industry seeks its workers from, I have a number of constituents who have worked in the North sea oil fields for 20, 30 or 40 years—probably all their working lives. Indeed, I was coming home on the plane three or four weeks ago and the guy alongside me had previously been in Dubai, which the hon. Member for Aberdeen North referred to, and had also worked in the middle east. On the occasion I met him he was coming from Libya back to Northern Ireland. The sector employs people from all across Northern Ireland. I know about those from my constituency, but there are others from elsewhere too.

Although new projects and licensing rounds have been approved, they are unlikely to reverse the declining production and workforce in the North sea, as most of the remaining reserves are in existing developments. The industry also supports a larger workforce indirectly through the supply chain, so the impact will be felt across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Those workforce figures mean that the Government must seriously consider questions of our energy supply and their implications, and I believe that they are doing so; indeed, I know that this issue is on the Minister’s agenda. The Government’s own data on the situation is telling, most helpful and encouraging, and I know that he will sum it up shortly.

The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero digest of UK energy statistics shows a 72% reduction in UK oil and gas production between 1999 and 2023, and the North Sea Transition Authority projects an 89% drop in UK oil and gas production by 2050. These statistics cannot be ignored; they show a trend. Analysis by the Office for National Statistics shows that direct jobs in oil and gas extraction fell by around a third between 2014 and 2023. Meanwhile, the findings of the 2023 Robert Gordon University study, “Powering up the Workforce”, included an estimate that the offshore renewables workforce—including those employed in offshore wind, carbon capture and storage, and hydrogen—could increase to between 70,000 and 138,000 in 2030.

That last figure, which shows the potential that exists, cannot be ignored. Indeed, the hon. Member for Aberdeen North clearly set out the transition from where jobs are today to jobs for the future. The Robert Gordon University study also found that over 90% of the UK’s oil and gas workforce have medium to high skills transferability and are well positioned to work in the adjacent energy sector. That cannot be ignored. It shows where we think we are; indeed, it has been the focus of everybody in this debate so far. The issue that the hon. Lady raised is clear. The Government are aware of the impending opportunity—or, if they do not take action, the impending unemployment problem. They must act urgently.

Oil and gas companies must have support for diversification training and help for staff to ensure that communities of oil and gas workers do not end up in a similar position to the coalmining communities who were abandoned when we knew of the difficulties, which took generations to combat. We have an opportunity today—the Government have an opportunity today—to act and see through the transition, taking advantage of the transferable skills that we have all referred to in this debate.

I believe that the North sea has more to yield than many Members have said today. Our opinions can differ on that, but we must be united in looking to the care of the sector in the near and medium term, and the Government must take the lead on that today. It is important that we look at the bigger picture. I referred to those from Northern Ireland, including some of my constituents, who have worked in the oil and gas sector for some 30 or 40 years. Their sons and others will look for opportunities. I want to make sure that, when the Government bring forward their thoughts about what is taking place, the opportunities for training and jobs will exist for us all. I always say that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has many talents and much work to do together. Let us continue to do just that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Kerry McCarthy]

My hon. Friend is right: we earn the credibility that enables us to show international leadership by delivering at home. In due course we will publish a cross-economy plan for meeting our climate targets, which will outline the policies that are needed to meet our 2035 nationally determined contribution, and we are engaging with a range of stakeholders on delivery through, for instance, the Net Zero Council, which has a very busy work programme, and the local net zero delivery group.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What assessment has the Minister made of the COP29 commitment to tripling finance for developing countries from the previous goal of $100 billion to $300 billion a year by 2035, and what is the United Kingdom’s contribution to that sum?

[Kerry McCarthy]

It is always a pleasure to answer questions from the hon. Member. We remain committed to international climate finance, and to the new climate finance goal agreed at COP29. The level of the UK’s contribution will be considered in the spending review, when we will also consider how we can maximise investment from the private sector.

Renewables Obligation Certificate Scheme

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 5th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Murrison. I thank the hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Terry Jermy) for setting the scene so well. He said he hoped his first debate would be more exciting, but this a practical debate. It is a debate that his constituents want him to focus on, and the reason he has secured it is because he is working on their behalf. I always found that I enjoy this particular type of debate because they really matter to people, and they can relate to them. There has been a focus on constitutional issues, war across the world, and all those things, in this last week—or 10 days, or two weeks, or even the last three years—but people back home in the hon. Member’s constituency will want him to pursue debates such as this one, so well done to him.

The hon. Member outlined the case for the renewables obligation in his introductory speech. I want to give a perspective from Northern Ireland. I am pleased to see the Minister in her place; before the election, she and I often sat on the Opposition Benches, and would have been alongside each other when it comes to asking for things. Today, I will be asking the Minister about some things in relation to discussions about the renewables scheme and the contracts for difference scheme, which we do not have in Northern Ireland.

There is a willingness in the Government approach to renewables, as there should be. It is important to do this as collectively as we can, to ensure that people can get the best value for money in their energy costs, so it is a pleasure to discuss these vital matters, and to consider the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in this conversation.

The renewables obligation scheme was introduced in 2002 to incentivise large-scale renewable electricity generation in the United Kingdom. It was phased out or closed in 2017, in favour of the contracts for difference scheme. For me, that is the key issue, because currently the CfD scheme does not apply to Northern Ireland, although before the election I tried to encourage the previous Government to extend it. I know that this is a devolved matter, but will the Minister please initiate some conversations with the relevant Minister in Northern Ireland—I think it is Gordon Lyons—to see how we can work together to progress the CfD scheme and include Northern Ireland? There is some work for us to do here at Westminster to get this over the line, so it would be helpful if the Minister did that.

In the past, I have worked closely alongside colleagues on this issue and I hope to do so again in the future, particularly with the inspiration and help of the Minister, because it is important that Northern Ireland has the same opportunities as the rest of the United Kingdom in relation to renewable energy.

Renewable energy is a path that we must pursue, and there need to be targets for us to achieve—the hon. Member for South West Norfolk outlined that as well. Policy direction for Northern Ireland is important and there have been movements to ensure that companies there can benefit from renewable energy incentives. Agencies such as Invest Northern Ireland or the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, and local councils, including my own, can apply for some smaller grants and loans. However, it is important to note that these grants and loans are not on the same scale as the renewables obligation certificates scheme. If we were part of that scheme, we would be in a much better position.

My constituency of Strangford has an important and, I believe, sustainable poultry sector. Throughout my life, there have been poultry houses all the way down the Ards peninsula, where I live, and indeed around Newtownards town as well. In his opening speech, the hon. Member for South West Norfolk focused on a project that could play a role for poultry farmers in Northern Ireland.

To be fair, at this moment in time avian flu has once again cast its shadow all across Northern Ireland. In every part of Northern Ireland, there is a shutdown; there is no movement of poultry, and poultry farms have to keep all their birds indoors as a result of the avian flu scare. That is the right thing to do. At the same time, if we are to look beyond the avian flu crisis in Northern Ireland, which is fairly acute, we have to consider using the hon. Member’s idea in Northern Ireland. Such projects have been discussed in the past, but never really got anywhere, so maybe it is time to encourage Northern Ireland’s Department for the Economy to do a wee bit more.

In 2023, the Department for the Economy consulted on a new energy strategy action plan, but nothing formal has come from that. I know that the Assembly has only just got up and running again—it is good that it is up and running again—but it is time to focus on the renewables obligation certificates scheme and on green energy, and on the potential benefits that we can achieve in the future.

Our renewables projects in Northern Ireland relied on funding and schemes in order to succeed. However, I find it very disheartening that Northern Ireland has not been able to adopt a new scheme since the closure of the prior one. We need a new emphasis and there is a real need for Ministers back home and for Departments back home to co-ordinate their strategy and the way forward with the Minister here in Westminster.

[Mr Angus MacDonald (Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire) (LD)]

In rural Britain, particularly rural Scotland, the cost per kilowatt to heat a house is about 24p, whereas those on mains gas in the city pay about 6p, so those using renewable electricity to heat their houses pay four times as much as those using mains gas. The renewables obligation certificate scheme is an important part of all this. Basically, rural Britain is getting absolutely stuffed on the cost of energy, so anything we can do to help those in rural areas is important. Does the hon. Gentleman agree?

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do, and I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I represent the rural constituency of Strangford; indeed, most of Northern Ireland is rural, although there are large population groups in the major towns across the Province. In terms of the price of energy in Northern Ireland, the price oil is the highest it has been for some time, although they said on the news this morning that it would drop. But 68% of households in Northern Ireland have oil as their major source of energy for heating and cooking, so when oil prices rise, energy prices rise—as I suspect they do in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency—which puts us under a bit more pressure than most.

Energy is devolved in Northern Ireland, unlike in Scotland. However, Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom, so there must be greater discussion between Westminster and the Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure that we are able to contribute to the net zero 2050 goals. I am reminded by the hon. Gentleman’s intervention of the SeaGen project in my constituency about 20 or 25 years ago, which tried to harness the tidal flows of the narrows of Portaferry and Strangford. At that time, it was not sustainable because of the price of energy, but today it would be. There are many projects we could look towards when it comes to contracts for difference.

To conclude, I look forward to working with colleagues to find a way forward that can benefit us all. The world is progressing, and climate change is a huge issue of major importance to many. The hon. Member for South West Norfolk referred to a project that is critically important for his constituency and that could be replicated across this great United Kingdom. Ensuring that we have a replacement strategy that we can take advantage of would be a positive step forward in achieving our goals. I look forward to the Minister’s contribution and hearing about her commitment. Through further discussion and integration and by working better together, Northern Ireland will not be left behind. Thank you so much, Sir Andrew.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (in the Chair)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Strangford for the accolade. Maybe he knows something that I do not.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero (Kerry McCarthy)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Dr Murrison, as always. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk (Terry Jermy) for securing this important debate. I think it is a marker of an MP who is going to achieve things for their constituents that they show persistence and an imaginative approach to lobbying on issues that are important to their constituents. The fact that he has already had the farming Minister down to visit the site and that, having dealt with one Government Department, he has now also secured this 90-minute debate in Parliament, his first Westminster Hall debate, is a sign of somebody who I know will be persistent in all the right ways. I pay tribute to him for that.

I will deal with some of the contributions from hon. Members before I address the more general questions. Some of the issues raised today are the responsibility of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, as shown by the farming Minister’s visit, but it is important to look at that circularity and my hon. Friend the Member for South West Norfolk spoke very eloquently about the co-benefits of the site: it is not just about energy production. I can tell him and my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Jenny Riddell-Carpenter) that we are acting at pace to try to deal with issues such as pollution of our waterways, and agricultural run-off, protection of our chalk streams and so on are very much part of that. While that is not a matter for me directly, when we look at energy projects we always look at the co-benefits.

We have had a number of debates on this issue. When I was shadow Minister I replied to a debate—I am sure the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) was there, because he always is—led by a Lib Dem colleague of the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald), on consumer energy prices in the highlands and islands. Point were made then about the difference in pricing and how expensive it can be to heat homes there. I am pretty sure that the Minister for Energy has replied to debates on similar subjects since we got into Government, but the hon. Member raises a valid point.

I can give the hon. Member for Strangford, who has raised the question of the CfD regime before, the assurance that the Lords Minister from the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero met his Northern Ireland counterpart before Christmas to discuss it; I am told that that dialogue continues. The hon. Gentleman will also, I am sure, be pleased to know that the Minister for Energy will be in Belfast tomorrow—we have an inter-ministerial group from the devolved Administrations that moves around. I discussed the agenda with the Minister for Energy last week and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs will be very much involved in those discussions. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are not ignoring Northern Ireland; it is very much on our radar.

[Jim Shannon]

Not for one second did I think the Minister was ignoring Northern Ireland—that was never the case. I just wanted to ensure that the relationship we have within this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland played a clear part. I was aware that the Minister for Energy is coming to Northern Ireland tomorrow and that he has regular discussions with the regional Administration, and that tells me why we are better off as part of this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—always better together.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I should have known the hon. Gentleman would be on top of things and would be aware of the Minister for Energy’s visit, but it is important that we have that continual dialogue and that the hon. Gentleman comes along to these debates to ensure that the Northern Ireland voice is heard.

I do not want to go too far off piste from the subject of the debate, but to respond to what the Lib Dem spokesperson, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), had to say, I am an MP from Bristol, so the Severn estuary, the Severn barrage, the Severn tidal lagoons or whatever are very much on my radar. I went up to the Orkneys last summer to look at what they are doing on harnessing wave energy there, and it was very interesting.

On grid capacity, we know that grid capacity is a real issue, in terms of both our ambition for clean power by 2030 and our wider industrial decarbonisation. The Secretary of State likes to talk about the “four horsemen” standing in the way of us getting there, and grid is very much one of those. We have brought in Chris Stark, the former chief executive of the Climate Change Committee, to head up mission control on that issue, and he is working daily on how we can unblock and accelerate projects within the grid.

To the hon. Member’s point on farmers, I agree with giving farmers support to diversify, and energy from waste or anaerobic digestion and so on is part of that. I met two of the DEFRA Ministers earlier this week—although it might have been last week; it all becomes a bit of a blur—and I am in constant conversation with them about how we can work together on that and on our local power plan, which will be part of GB Energy. Hopefully there will be pots of money available for some of those community projects in rural areas, possibly on farms that he has talked about.

I understand that the company that my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Leigh Ingham) mentioned, GE Vernova, is doing innovative things on grid solutions. That is the sort of high-tech new approach that we need if we are to solve the problems that we have talked about, and I congratulate her on speaking up on behalf of a company in her constituency.

Turning to the actual debate, the experience of recent years has reinforced what we already knew: we cannot rely on fossil fuels. We need clean power to reduce vulnerability to volatile global fossil fuel markets, to give us energy security and reduce the cost of energy, and to tackle the climate crisis. That is why one of the Prime Minister’s five missions is to make Britain a clean energy superpower by delivering clean power by 2030 and accelerating to net zero. Electricity generated by renewables and nuclear power will be the backbone of a clean electricity system by 2030.

I have told the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy) how disappointed I am with the Opposition’s U-turn on this issue. I understand the position they are coming from and that there has been a change from the stance that they adopted in Government, but I have not heard from him what the answer is for our future energy security. What is the answer to dealing with the global fossil fuel markets? What is the answer to tackling the climate crisis? What is the answer to bringing down bills in the long term?