Oral Answers to Questions

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Feryal Clark]

I thank my hon. Friend for strongly advocating for her constituency in Medway to become an AI growth zone. She will well know that the “AI Opportunities Action Plan” outlines the steps we are taking so that the UK can build the cutting-edge computer infrastructure needed to lead in AI development and deployment. I eagerly look forward to reading expressions of interest from hon. Members’ constituencies. I will be more than happy to meet her to discuss this in detail.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

The Minister will be well aware that the growth of AI across the country depends on a ready supply of data and other content on which models can be trained. She will recognise that much of that content comes from our creative industries, and she will know that they are profoundly troubled that they are not being properly treated by the companies currently scraping their data without their permission or without proper compensation. I know that the Government will want to resolve that, and she will know that the Data Bill saw amendments made in the other place to address that. Do the Government intend to resolve this issue by means of the Data Bill or by other means? If by other means, what other means and when?

[Feryal Clark]

The right hon. and learned Member will know that there is an ongoing consultation looking at clarifying the copyright and AI issues. There will be a speech this afternoon on the Data Bill that will cover the issue in more detail. As he will also know, the consultation ends on 25 February, after which we will review its responses to see what we need to do.

Outsourcing: Government Departments

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

Order. It will be obvious to everyone that there is considerable interest in this debate. May I ask all Members to bob if you wish to speak, and to continue to do that so that we can see you still wish to speak? I hope that if everyone can restrict themselves to about four minutes, we will get everybody in. I want to start calling the Front Benchers at 10.30 am.

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[Steve Witherden (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) on securing this crucial debate. I have had the privilege of standing in solidarity with the facilities management staff and speaking at the PCS pickets that have been mentioned by others in this debate. Their demands could not be clearer: fair pay, better working conditions and an end to outsourcing in Government Departments. While delivering vital services such as cleaning, catering and security to keep civil service Departments running effectively, those employed on outsourced contracts are treated as second-class employees compared with their in-house counterparts. The result is a two-tier system with a sharp racial divide. BAME and migrant workers are disproportionately employed in these roles.

Last year we saw the long and hard-fought dispute between the Department for Education and its outsourced cleaners come to an end. Reports of those workers being overworked, treated “like rats” and denied the London living wage were truly appalling. Unfortunately, such treatment is common practice when it comes to the subcontracting of Government services to private firms. Many workers on outsourced contracts struggle to make ends meet, especially during the ongoing cost of living crisis, as their wages are often limited to the national minimum or living wage. In some Government Departments and agency workplaces, PCS members have even resorted to establishing food banks to support low-paid staff. Adding to their economic insecurity, those workers are also excluded from access to decent pension schemes.

The current outsourcing model weakens the Government’s ability to hold companies accountable. Basic protections for outsourced workers, such as company sick pay, are shirked, often forcing employees to continue working while unwell as they cannot afford to take time off. These outsourcing practices propagate the exploitation of employees. The companies behind them can easily avoid taking responsibility for poor pay and conditions, and the quality and fairness of essential public services are being compromised all the while. Will the Government honour the welcome promise of

“the biggest wave of insourcing…for a generation”?

Will they bring services back in-house where they belong and show their loyalty to the cleaners, the security staff and all the other undervalued workers who keep this country running, not the profiteering directors of outsourcing companies? Diolch yn fawr.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

Within your four minutes—thank you very much.

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[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend is right. We are all trying to ensure that the programmes and services are delivered and that, more importantly, the rights of workers are protected. He has hit that nail on the head.

The outsourcing of services can never be a no-brainer; it must always be a decision that is thought through from beginning to end, and with more than the financial bottom line as a guide. The hon. Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East referred to it not being about profit margins. It should never be about profit margins; it should be about ensuring that the service is right. I agree with him.

We need to be sure that outsourcing companies behave in an ethical way when it comes to issues such as zero-hour contracts. That is made more difficult by the changes to national insurance, the blame for which lies with the Government. The group that runs Ards and North Down borough council’s Bangor leisure centre is concerned about £20 million in extra labour costs due to the changes to national insurance contributions and the minimum wage in the October Budget.

As always, that will affect profits, and I am concerned that the loser will be the low-paid worker with minimal rights. This is the key issue that must be taken into consideration in the context of outsourcing. The Government make decisions and say that businesses will have to swallow the cost, but too often the reality is that the staff have to. It is the wee man and the wee woman in the street who will pay, through the goods that they buy. Some companies that provided paid morning and afternoon coffee breaks are now saying that they can afford to do only the bare legal minimum. That is the unintended consequence of decisions made in this place.

At the same time, there is a time and a place for outsourcing, where expertise demands it. For major capital projects, the niche work must often be outsourced, rather than hiring in for short-term purposes. If there is to be a moving of the goalposts regarding outsourcing, we must retain the ability to get necessary work done in a short space of time.

In times of emergency, such as that currently happening at home with the after-effects of the storm, it is clear that outsourcing must always be on the table. Our road service, Transport NI, does not have the capacity to clear and make roads safe. The ability to hire contractors is vital, and it needs to be able to be done quickly. Those who wish to see an end to outsourcing need to be careful. Providing services in-house, with greater control, is better, but one size does not fit all. It may be beneficial to lean towards doing things in-house, but any decisions must be well considered and weighted, as I know the Minister’s will be.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

Order. I gently remind all Members that we must get to four minutes each voluntarily or I will have to impose something less voluntary. I call Jon Trickett.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

Order. We have 10 minutes left, and I hope to bring three more people in, so I ask colleagues to restrict themselves accordingly.

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[Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) for bringing this timely debate to the Chamber. As ever, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy.

I want to dispel some myths in the few minutes that I have got. I want us to wake up and smell the coffee, because this is not “outsourcing”. What is outsourcing? It is privatisation. One hon. Member said it is privatisation by the back door, but it is not; it is just privatisation. We have got to get to grips with how privatisation in this country is getting out of control. Who benefits and who does not benefit? The reality is that the companies are making fortunes and the workers are struggling to make ends meet.

There are some private companies that are actually providing food banks in their places of work for the people they employ. How obscene is that? It is not about socialism or about even left-wing ideology; it is about decency and respect. It is about ambition and giving people a fair deal. That is what we should be about in a prosperous country like the one we live in. Who suffers under privatisation? I was one of the people who worked in a nationalised industry that was privatised over a period of time, so I have got experience of this. Who suffers? It is the workers.

It has been mentioned: reduction in pay, sacking of the labour force, lack of trade union recognition—even trying to fight back—nae sick pay, nae holiday pay. It is absolutely absurd. It served them! We need to be saying what it really is, and the Government Departments are ridden with individuals who are working under the most horrendous of conditions. I pay tribute to the many workers who have worked tirelessly. Many of those in privatised companies are claiming universal credit. The company directors are trousering fortunes, while the workers are losing out on the rights that I have just mentioned. It is horrendous. Some of them cannot make ends meet. Many of them are going to work when they really should not be there, because of sickness, for example. It is just wholly unacceptable.

We have got to get to grips with this privatisation. We have got no other option. We need to protect people in this country from the abuses and the exploitation by privateers, who are making fortunes at the cost of those in the industry. I urge my hon. Friend the Minister to listen to what my hon. Friend the Member for Normanton and Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) said about the legal presumption of in-house employment, because the reality is that we cannot control what we do not own.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

I thank all hon. Members who have spoken for their restraint. It has allowed me to get one more hon. Member in, but I ask her to please bring her remarks to a close at 10.30 am.

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[Mike Wood]

I really need to make progress so that the Minister can respond.

It is particularly troubling that Labour has refused to clarify exactly how the new procurement rules will work in practice. The NPPS, which is meant to lay out the Government’s plans, has yet to be published, leaving businesses uncertain about the future landscape of public contracts. The previous version was published nearly six months before the Procurement Act was due to commence. It is now less than four weeks before the date the Minister indicated that the Act will commence. There is no sign of what the new rules will be, and yet businesses will be expected to adapt.

Furthermore, it is essential to recognise that the regulatory burden placed on firms seeking Government contracts will have a chilling effect on investment, innovation and the growth that I understand the Chancellor is speaking of this morning. If businesses perceive that public procurement is more about politics than performance, they will simply withdraw from bidding for contracts. That will leave fewer providers and make us more reliant on a small number of mega-contractors, reducing competitive pressure to drive efficiencies. That would be disastrous for taxpayers, who deserve the best services at the lowest cost.

The previous Government recognised the need for reform and took decisive action to improve procurement. This Government, on the other hand, are undoing that work by creating a system in which trade unions hold the keys to public contracts and require businesses to comply with unnecessary and costly obligations that do nothing to improve service delivery.

Public procurement should be about securing the best services at the best price for the taxpayer, not about enforcing an ideological agenda. Labour’s approach will lead to inefficiency and waste, and will reduce competition —all at the expense of businesses and the public, who rely on well-managed services. If the Government continue down this path, they risk severely damaging the UK’s ability to run a fair and efficient public procurement system.

I have a number of questions that I hope the Minister will address. When will the Government next update their model services contract guidance and the outsourcing playbook? Are Departments still on track to save £550 million this financial year, as the Government promised they would in November? What steps are the Government taking to ensure that microbusinesses and SMEs are not excluded from bidding for, or engaging with, public sector outsourcing opportunities? What contact has the Minister had with the Business Services Association regarding any updates to the Government’s outsourcing policies? What discussions have she and her colleagues had with colleagues at the Crown Commercial Service regarding the operation of the RM6277 framework? Finally, do the Government still expect the Procurement Act to commence on 24 February? If they do, does the Minister think the very short time that businesses have to adapt between the publication of the policy statement and the commencement of the Act is acceptable?

Outsourcing and public procurement are a real test for this Government. Will they fall back on the ideology of the past or represent the interests of the public going forward? Are they working in the interests of those who use and pay for services, or in the interests of union paymasters?

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

I will now call the Minister to respond. If there is any time left before 11 o’clock, I will invite Andy McDonald to wind up, if he wishes to.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Georgia Gould)]

This is my first time responding to a Westminster Hall debate, and it is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy. I join many Members in expressing my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) for his contribution, and I echo the comments that have been made about his constructive and thoughtful work on this issue.

Many Members had only a short time to set out their views. My hon. Friend the Member for Normanton and Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) said that four minutes was not quite enough, given his 29 years’ experience. That far surpasses my few months, so I would welcome the opportunity to have further discussions with any colleagues across the House. Critical issues were raised about a whole range of public services, and I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with Members ahead of putting forward the new national procurement policy statement.

I join many Members in paying tribute to the work of outsourced staff—the security guards, cleaners and catering teams—who play a vital role in supporting Government and who allow all of us to do our jobs. They serve the public and the public sector, and are, in the case of the security teams, the front door to Government. Whether staff are directly employed or contracted, they are engaging in vital public services, and these should be decent jobs with progression routes, as we have heard.

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East is right to raise the topic of outsourcing. As the Government set out in our plan to make work pay, we need to learn the lessons from the collapse of Carillion and more effectively manage markets to ensure the right mix of provision. That means ending the previous Administration’s dogmatic drive to privatise our public services.

I was interested to hear the comments about ideology, having watched for the last 14 years as an ideologically driven approach led to waste, poor value for money and, in some cases, poor public services—for example, the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) referenced the failed outsourcing of probation services. We must ensure that all contracts are transparent and accountable and provide value for money for the British taxpayer.

I was surprised to hear the comments about progress. Like the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), I have a background in local government—I think we both have a background at Camden council. While I was in local government, I saw billions wasted on PPE, and I saw the waste of the test and trace contract, when those of us in local government knew that public health officials and housing staff were ready to go out and do that work. Yet, so much money went to private providers, and I saw the ballooning cost of consultants.

The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) referenced children’s homes. The new Government have had to step in to end the exploitative practice of some private sector organisations making excessive profits from services for vulnerable children. Under the previous Government, we saw a significant increase in privately run children’s homes, with a Competition and Markets Authority report suggesting that the 15 largest children’s home providers make an average 23% profit per year. Is that value for money? This Government have shone a light on those profits, set a new cap and given Ofsted new powers to investigate and impose fines for exploitative practices.

As the leader of a council, I saw how insourced public services, when managed carefully over time, with robust assessment of benefits and outcomes, can deliver savings for taxpayers and better public services. During covid, I saw how our in-house repairs service immediately moved to delivering food, often volunteering to work long hours to support residents. I saw the pride and commitment that came from working for the council, and the greater flexibility and innovation that that could bring. I agree with the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington that there is huge innovation in the public sector.

As we saw under the previous Government, outsourced services can too often deliver a race to the bottom on quality and standards, and a self-defeating approach that harms taxpayers and value for money. This Government are determined to deliver good public services and better value for money. That includes making decisions about how to deliver services to avoid the waste we saw under the previous Government. We have already begun to deliver reform of the frameworks for outsourcing, with provisions in the Employment Rights Bill to strengthen and reinstate the two-tier code introduced under the last Labour Government. The new Procurement Act will come into effect next month, creating a simpler and more flexible procurement system underpinned by a new mission-focused national procurement policy statement.

I did not recognise the comments made about that work. I have engaged deeply with SMEs, businesses, the voluntary sector, social enterprise, contracting authorities, trade unions and a wide range of stakeholders to ensure that the NPPS delivers our missions for the country, with growth at the heart of what we want to achieve. The statement will set out the Government’s policy priorities, and contracting authorities will have to have regard to it when carrying out procurements. That will be the first step to ending the last Government’s ideological fixation with outsourcing. I am pleased to say that the statement is almost complete, as we continue to have those conversations, and I look forward to laying it before both Houses shortly.

I want to respond directly to the points made about outsourcing. I agree with the position of Christina McAnea and Unison, which was highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East, that a public interest test should be in place before services are outsourced, to ensure value for money and the best outcomes. The NPPS will set out how we plan to make it easier for public authorities to test the best possible model to provide value for money and outcomes for the taxpayer, and end the ideological presumption on outsourcing.

Through these measures, the Government will achieve greater value for money for the people and businesses of this country, moving away from relying on a few large suppliers and being more open to investment across the country in the areas that need it most. Key to that is supporting SMEs. I hear so often from SMEs that they find engaging with Government procurement complex and burdensome. Part of the work we want to do involves diversifying the providers that come forward, whether that is SMEs, social enterprises or voluntary sector organisations.

We have also begun to assess the areas of Government that could be done more effectively in house, and where there may be compelling reasons for Government to develop their own capabilities and capacity to deliver good value for money and better public services. Again, I welcome a wider discussion of that. That work will recognise the practical hurdles to building Government capacity, particularly in a constrained fiscal environment, and when many public services are under huge strain. Having brought a number of services in house in local government, I know that it can be very powerful and save money, but it also takes time, planning and investment. The lead-in times on procurement are significant, and there is no quick fix. However, active work is happening on those critical issues.

We are clear that we will end the last Government’s tunnel vision on large-scale outsourcing and consider the best way to achieve our missions and the best outcomes for citizens. As I have set out, we want to see more diversity, including social enterprises, co-ops, mutuals, voluntary sector organisations and SMEs. We will use the measures in the Procurement Act to open up procurement to that more diverse supply base. Hon. Members spoke of ensuring that we have the right capacity to manage contracts, as well as transparency throughout the process, and that will be at the core of the work we are leading.

We are clear that public sector procurement is an important engine of growth for the economy and that there are purpose-driven businesses providing good-quality jobs. However, as we have heard from some surveys, there is poor practice across the economy. That is why we have introduced the Employment Rights Bill to increase standards and ensure there are decent jobs, not just as part of Government contracts, but across the economy. I do not have a huge amount of time, and I will not go through all the measures, but they address some of the questions put to me today. The provisions in the Employment Rights Bill will empower Ministers to reinstate and strengthen the two-tier code through regulations and a statutory code of practice, which is critical.

I end by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East for bringing forward this issue. As we work on the new NPPS, his insights and those of all those here are very welcome, and I am open to ideas from every part of the House. Close to £400 billion is spent on public procurement, which is a huge amount, and we need to ensure that it provides growth and opportunity across the country. We should use procurement to ensure that there are good jobs for our citizens in every community. Whenever we decide to spend taxpayers’ money, it is right that we make an assessment of what will deliver the best outcomes for citizens and value for money. Unlike the last Government, we will never put ideology before people.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

I thank the Minister for her debut performance in Westminster Hall.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered outsourcing by Government departments.

Youth Mobility Scheme: EU

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

I ask all Members not staying for this debate to leave as quietly as they can. This is a 30-minute debate, so there will be no opportunity for the Member leading it to wind up at the end.

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[Caroline Voaden]

Since the election, I have seen and heard lots of evidence of more conversations happening between the UK and the EU than did over the previous few years, so I accept what you are saying about a rapprochement and a more positive engagement. You say that the Government are keen to increase trade—

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but “you” is me; she means “he”, in other words the Minister.

[Caroline Voaden]

I apologise, Sir Jeremy. The Government are saying that they want to increase trade with the European Union. Could the Minister comment on how helpful he thinks it is when suggestions are put forward by the European Union? Last week, for example, we had a suggestion of a pan-European Mediterranean customs agreement, which could benefit the just-in-time supply trade and complex manufacturing in this country, but was instantly dismissed by the Government. Would the Minister like to comment on how helpful he thinks that is?

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[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

My hon. Friend makes a really powerful point. It was a particularly low moment for the country when one of its Prime Ministers could not answer a question as to whether the French President was a friend or foe. France is our NATO ally, with huge and deep ties to us. The fact that we ever reached that point was, frankly, disgraceful. However, we are not in that position any more. We are very clear with our European friends and partners that our relationship with them is constructive and positive, and that we will make it even closer in the years ahead. That is hugely important. My hon. Friend also makes a really powerful point about national interests, because our national interests and those of European economies go hand in hand. This process is not some sort of zero-sum game. It is a negotiation—a set of discussions—from which both sides can mutually benefit.

Let us take, for example, an SPS agreement, as seeking negotiations on that is one of our specific manifesto pledges. It works for and reduced barriers on both sides. That is good for businesses and the agricultural sector on the European continent, and it is good for the agricultural sector here in Britain. Cultural exchanges are also good for both sides, as is mutual recognition of professional qualifications in services. That is not just about our brilliant services exports; it is about those services that we can get from the European Union.

I am conscious, Sir Jeremy, that this is a short Westminster Hall debate and we are coming to the last few moments. People-to-people contacts are hugely important; there is no doubt about that. Obviously, the previous Government eased the position regarding school trips, particularly with France. We have just indicated our reinvestment in the Turing scheme. There are also numerous deep people-to-people links with Europe right across the United Kingdom.

As we have had this exchange across the Chamber many times, the hon. Member for Richmond Park will know that youth mobility was not part of the plans that the Government set out at the election. We have said that we will not go back to freedom of movement; that is a very clear red line. However, I approach the negotiations with the European Union in a constructive spirit. I, of course, will put forward and advocate for our national interests. It is, of course, for the EU to come forward with its negotiating position.

Who knows whether points in the Financial Times on this matter are accurate or not? They may or may not be, but I look forward to these negotiations. This is going to be a really positive period in relationships between the UK and the EU, and I am sure we can come back with the deliverables that are being asked for by the hon. Lady and her colleagues.

Finally, I am very grateful to you, Sir Jeremy, for your chairmanship of this debate.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (in the Chair)]

I am grateful, too, to the Minister and to everyone who has contributed to the debate.

Question put and agreed to.

Infected Blood Compensation Scheme

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very powerful representation on behalf of Trevor Marsden and more generally with respect to some of the conclusions Sir Brian made in his remarks. What happened with respect to experimentation was truly shameful. As he will be aware, I am speaking today to the issue of compensation, but it is an urgent matter to isolate who knew what and when, take that from the report and establish what courses of action, across the range of issues raised here in the House today, are the most appropriate to deal with all of those things.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

I welcome what my right hon. Friend has set out, particularly the efforts that he and his predecessors have made to remove friction from the process of getting the victims of this unforgivable episode the compensation they clearly deserve. But he will recognise that as the system beds down and begins to operate, there is always the risk of that friction creeping back in. Can he make sure that he and his ministerial colleagues keep their eyes on the process and work with Sir Robert Francis to make sure it continues to be without friction, so that people continue to be able to easily access the compensation they need?

[John Glen]

Absolutely. My right hon. and learned Friend makes a very wise point. The need to swiftly expedite payments in full to as many qualifying people as possible is the imperative that has guided me to this point, and will be the imperative that Sir Robert will take forward in his conversations. We must not introduce unnecessary complexity to establish people’s qualification to receive a payment, when that is unnecessary. There is a tension, but we must resolve it to get the payments out. That is why the arm’s length body will need to prioritise in particular the groups who are infected, alive and suffering the most, many of whom I met recently.

Iran-Israel Update

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I refer the hon. Lady to my statement, in which I was clear about my commitment to a two-state solution and our diplomatic efforts to help to bring that about.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has made it clear that it is right and lawful to defend yourself and right and lawful for your allies to help to defend you, but does he agree that it is also important to point out that self-defence can be both effective and restrained, and furthermore that self-defence can be more effective in the long run when it is restrained, because it helps to retain the broadest coalition of those who support your position and because it enables you to retain the moral authority to act robustly against others when you need to do so?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend has put it well. Ultimately, Israel does have a right to self-defence, as any state does. However, it has successfully repelled the Iranian attack and Iran is even more isolated on the world stage, which is why, as the Foreign Secretary said, we would urge it to take the win and avoid further escalation at this moment.

Defending the UK and Allies

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Monday 15th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That question is quite extraordinary. It is Houthi rockets that are endangering the lives of seafarers in the region. We have seen shipping companies welcome the action we are taking, because they are keen to see security and stability restored to the region. That is what we are aiming to do: to disrupt, destabilise and degrade the Houthis’ ability to carry out these attacks and to restore stability to region. That is very much the focus of our attention. We are acting in self-defence to protect the lives of seafarers, not endanger them. The right hon. Lady would do well to call out the Houthis to stop what they are doing.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the international law case for his Government’s action in the Red sea is, unusually in my experience, relatively straightforward? Does he also agree that the next significant challenge is to maintain and enhance a multinational consensus on deterring and combating more of these attacks, if they occur, and that acting in compliance with and respect for international law assists us in that task?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend is right. I hope he will have seen the published legal summary of our advice on this issue. This proportionate and necessary action was taken lawfully to respond to attacks by the Houthis, and it was the only feasible means to do so. The UK is, as he knows, permitted under international law to use force in such circumstances. It is right that we have due regard for the legal advice in such situations, and I reassure him that we will continue always to have regard to it. While we fight to protect international law, it is important that we also follow it ourselves.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Wednesday 14th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Chloe Smith]

I am concerned to hear the examples that the hon. Member gives. That is exactly why this House and the other place have spent considerable time going over the provisions in the Online Safety Bill, which goes to the heart of the issues that he raises and includes AI in its scope.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that when it comes to AI regulation, two things are important? The first is that there is a significant international dimension, and I congratulate her and the Prime Minister on what they have already achieved in setting out this country’s stall to be a global leader in AI regulation. Secondly, does she agree that the lesson to be learned from the Online Safety Bill, which she mentioned, is that we must regulate swiftly, rather than waiting for the technology to develop and attempting to retrofit the regulation on to the technology?

[Chloe Smith]

I welcome my right hon. and learned Friend’s contribution—he knows a great deal about these matters. First, I acknowledge his welcome for the approach we will be taking internationally. It is exactly right that the UK can and should lead in this space, as the Prime Minister has set out, and that is what we will do with our global summit on AI safety. Secondly, on his point about the Online Safety Bill, I can understand his argument, but in this context I would draw the House’s attention to the distinction between regulation and legislation. We intend to use our existing and established regulators to make sure that we have a flexible and adaptable approach to AI.

Ministerial Code: Investigation of Potential Breach

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Quin]

The right hon. Lady has made a number of contentions there, and I will not get into speculation about the events in question. She will have heard the Prime Minister being clear yesterday that he was informed of the issue while on the service of the country at the G7 in Japan. He has returned from the G7 and is gathering information, but what we know of the Prime Minister is that he will deal with these issues properly and professionally. The first part of that is to gather the information required on which he can take a view, and that is what he is doing.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend will recall that the Committee on Standards in Public Life, when I was a member of it, recommended that the independent adviser should be able to initiate their own inquiries into breaches of the ministerial code and determine whether there was a breach, leaving sanctions properly for the Prime Minister to determine. That has several advantages. It gives the benefit of a decision being taken at arm’s length from Government and, if I may say so to my right hon. Friend, it also means we will have fewer occasions such as this and he will have to answer fewer such urgent questions. [Interruption.]

[Jeremy Quin]

What the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) says is true: it is always a pleasure to be before the House in any circumstances. To respond to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright), I would not wish to detract from the fact that the ministerial code is the Prime Minister’s document. It is a code as to how the Prime Minister expects his or her Ministers to behave in a set of circumstances. The Prime Minister is the ultimate judge of the ministerial code. I believe the first independent adviser was appointed in 2006 to have a role supporting the Prime Minister in that function, but we must remind ourselves that the ministerial code is the Prime Minister’s document, and he needs to be able to take decisions on the back of it regarding his ministerial team.

Investment Security Unit: Scrutiny

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Darren Jones]

I am in the unusual circumstance, as a member of the Opposition, of having to put the Government line to my right hon. Friend. I merely recognise, as he will know from our extensive conversations, that it has always been the case, in line with the Osmotherly rules for Select Committees, that we do not have a statutory power to summon information, as he does on the Intelligence and Security Committee, but that there is a presumption that information will be shared with us. He will know that, if that information is not exchanged in a timely and ready fashion for us to do our work, the Committee will escalate those issues via the Committee, the usual channels or on the Floor of the House. As to my right hon. Friend’s question on where the unit resides, it resides in the Cabinet Office. I assume it is within the National Security Secretariat. I think he is therefore suggesting that that means the ISC has oversight. I know full well that he and his colleagues will make use of their powers to try to request information from the Government in their work.

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his statement and recognise that a huge amount of work has gone into it, including with the Government. I thank him for the engagement he has had with my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), the Chairman of the ISC, of which I, too, am a member. I know that my right hon. Friend would be here if he could be.

If I may, I will put to the hon. Gentleman what the problem with the arrangement might be. He has said already that arrangements are to be made for the viewing of material that would normally be at a higher classification than members of his Committee would be able to see, but those arrangements as set out in the memorandum are clearly described as “exceptional”. Is it not the case that the sub-committee of his Committee that he will set up to deal with this material is likely to deal with that sort of classified material on a routine basis? Is there not an advantage in having staff and members of a committee who are used to dealing with this type of material? Through no fault of their own, neither his Committee nor its staff will be used to that.

[Darren Jones]

There is an interesting question there, to which none of us knows the answer: how routine will it be for us to have to look at either commercially sensitive or national security-sensitive information about individual transactions? From our study visit to the United States, it seemed that most of the transactions were operationalised, and had not become political or been escalated to a committee level, because the issues were seen to be sensible, small or below de minimis thresholds.

There will be examples where there is more political interest in a particular transaction. In the past year, for example, where the 2021 Act has been operational, the vast majority of the notifications that my Committee has received have not warranted our having to look at the national security information. For some cases, such as Newport Wafer Fab, the industrial implications of that decision will warrant our looking at that information in more detail. Under this memorandum of understanding, we will request that information when we are permitted to do so—after the period of judicial review and appeal has closed—so that we may understand whether the Act is being used in the way it is supposed to be used, without deterring investment in the interests of workers and business in this country.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman refers to staff. As I said in my statement, the House has kindly provided the Committee with additional staff, who are national security specialists and have a range of security clearances. In the MOU, there are procedures and processes for the handling, holding, storage and use of information, both between my Committee and my Clerks, but also where necessary within Government facilities.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jeremy Wright Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)]

Q9. My constituent, Jamie Scott, spent four weeks in a coma, and remains seriously disabled as a result of a covid vaccination. He and his family continue to believe that mass vaccination is the right policy, but it must surely also be right to ensure that the tiny minority who are seriously injured as a result are properly compensated. In the absence of court cases, it is in no one’s interest to litigate. The current limit on compensation is £120,000, even for very serious and lifelong injury, and anyone who is disabled by less than 60% gets nothing at all. That cannot be right. Will my right hon. Friend look urgently at changing that?

[The Prime Minister]

It is important to start by recognising the importance of vaccines in protecting us all, not least the fantastic roll-out of the covid vaccines across the UK. I am very sorry to hear about the case my right hon. and learned Friend raises. In the extremely rare case of a potential injury from a vaccine covered by the scheme, a one-off payment can be awarded. That is not designed to be a compensation scheme, and it does not prevent the injured person from pursuing a legal compensation claim with the vaccine manufacturer. We are taking steps to reform vaccine damage payment schemes, by modernising the operations and providing more timely outcomes, but of course I would be happy to talk to my right hon. and learned Friend further about that.