Backbench Business

Greg Knight Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the UK ivory trade.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. With your permission, I will outline the case for ending the UK ivory trade and will leave much of the detail to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham), who has spoken regularly in this House about it. I pay tribute to the work of Lord Hague and many other right hon. and hon. Members for whom this is a matter of great concern.

This debate also addresses the subject of a petition to shut down the domestic ivory market in the UK, which has attracted more than 75,000 signatures. My near neighbour, my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), has asked me to say that he would very much have liked to be here, but he had a prior commitment. His article in The Daily Telegraph makes a strong case for ending the UK ivory trade. I also want to pay tribute to the work of Tusk, the World Wildlife Fund, the International Fund for Animal Welfare and other organisations for highlighting the threat to elephants and other endangered species.

The elephant population in sub-Saharan Africa has declined dramatically over the past decade. It is estimated that some 30%—perhaps 144,000—have disappeared in the past seven years, substantially as a result of poaching. Estimates of the remaining population vary, but there are perhaps as few as 400,000 to 450,000. This is an emergency that requires emergency action.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

What my hon. Friend is saying will have widespread support in all parts of the House. Does he agree that there is something both revolting and nauseating about those who slaughter an endangered animal to use a part of its body as an ornament?

[Jeremy Lefroy]

My right hon. Friend has put it much better than I could. I entirely agree with him.

Dog Fighting

Greg Knight Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered dog fighting.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, and it is a privilege to bring this debate to the Chamber to highlight the extreme plight of those dogs around the UK that are subject to the cruel and callous animal abuse of dog fighting. They have no voice of their own, and we must give them a voice; I am heartened that so many hon. Members are present to contribute to the debate and to do just that—to give them their voice. I am proud that so many of my constituents and those of other Members have been in contact to emphasise the importance of the debate and the impact on animal welfare and our legislative process.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

I am delighted that the hon. Lady chose this topic for debate. Is she aware that she has widespread support throughout the House and that some of us have tabled early-day motion 64, which calls for a national dog-fighting strategy to stamp out this awful crime?

[Dr Cameron]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I am delighted that I have so much support in all areas of the House, from all parties. I have signed the early-day motion and fully support it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Cameron]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I agree that we do not need a one-pronged approach. We need to address the issues that have been raised, and we should recognise that if those involved are also involved in organised crime and are making large amounts of money from dog fighting, a small fine and a slap on the wrist will not be a deterrent. We need a deterrent in this case.

Dog fighting awareness day is on 8 April, which also happens to be my birthday. I had not been aware of that coincidence before I researched the debate. The day was established by the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. As I mentioned, it has been traumatic for me, as an animal lover, to research and speak about the issue. I am sure that dog lovers and ordinary people across the country who have listened to the debate will have been sickened. Dog fighting is a cruel, barbaric, abhorrent and violent crime with no place in the UK. It is one of the most extreme forms of animal cruelty. I am pleased and heartened by the number of Members who have come to the debate, and I urge that we work together to eradicate dog fighting once and for all.

[Sir Greg Knight]

On a point of order, Sir Roger. You are in the Chair and are therefore properly impartial, but is it not appropriate that we place on record the work you have done and continue to do on animal welfare matters? We know that if you were not up there, you would be down here.

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

My right hon. Friend is most generous: I could not possibly comment. The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron) has been very generous in giving way. I hope that hon. Members will not seek to rise to make speeches unless they have indicated already to the Chair that they will do so, because I am afraid there is no opportunity for me to facilitate that. Because of the time available, I will now have to reduce the speaking time to four minutes. If hon. Members can limit themselves to less than that, we might get everybody in, but it is a big might. I always do my best, but I cannot guarantee it.

Low Emission Zones

Greg Knight Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Ben Howlett (Bath) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the introduction of low emission zones.

I am pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon. It is great to host this debate on the vital subject of establishing low emission zones in the UK. Although I will focus my attention on the wider benefits of low emission zones across the UK and why they should be introduced, it will come as no surprise to Members that I would like to use my own constituency of Bath as an example of how the introduction of low emission zones will benefit a UNESCO world heritage site.

I also want to outline why the outcome of the Government’s recent consultation on air quality must lead to the introduction of a standardised set of rules and regulations for establishing low emission zones across the UK. In layman’s terms, I want to see an off-the-shelf low emission zone system that can be picked up from Government and dropped into a community such as Bath in a much easier way than is currently the case. With the European Court of Justice’s deadline for a proposal on how we can bring Britain’s air quality up to legal standards almost upon us, we need to look at the introduction of low emission zones and how they can be implemented as quickly and successfully as possible.

It is not only in terms of deadlines that time is ticking. Air pollution is having a devastating impact on the nation’s health, and that simply cannot be ignored for much longer. In my view, a national strategy is needed to ensure a continuous and unified approach to implementation, so that drivers are not expected to comply with a variety of different regulations and restrictions as they travel around the country.

Bath, unbeknown to many outside the south-west, has a huge problem with air pollution. Many of its buildings are constructed out of the famous yellow Bath stone, but they are slowly blackening in many areas. Air pollution levels in Bath far exceed legal limits and are causing problems to constituents’ health and wellbeing, as well as the health of the many tourists who visit our city. Bath relies on tourism for much of its income, and the situation puts tourism at risk.

I will show the Chamber a map, which, at the request of the Chairman, I will hand to the Library. It is famously known as the “corridor of death” map in Bath, and I have a copy courtesy of the Federation of Bath Residents Associations. The map shows the dangerously high levels of air pollution in Bath, which have increased further since it was published in 2009. A study in Bath showed that road traffic contributes a staggering 92% of the total NOx concentration, with heavy-duty vehicles contributing between 24% and 57.1% of that. Those figures are promising in that they show that a restriction on the movement of vehicles through central Bath will reduce the contribution that traffic makes to pollution levels in the city.

Earlier this month I raised the issue with the Secretary of State, who visited Bath prior to the election. She stood with me on the corner of London Road and Cleveland Bridge and we breathed in the air pollution together. She was clear at the time that the Government would like to introduce a standardised system of low emission zones around the UK. This was music to the ears of members of the Federation of Bath Residents Associations who were in attendance, along with local residents from Camden and Walcot in my constituency.

Since then I have welcomed both the European Commissioner for the Environment and the Conservative MEP for the South West, Julie Girling, to see the situation at first hand. At our meeting, we discussed Bath’s special case and called for Bath to become a special case study for air pollution by the European Commission. Given our unique world heritage status in the UK, our bowl-like geography as a city, and the Bath stone that I mentioned earlier, which seems to take on pollutants in a more destructive way than other building materials, it is important that we have a low emission zone. I want to thank the Bath residents associations, including FoBRA and the city centre residents associations, for championing these changes in Bath.

Low emission zones work to deter the vehicles that produce the most harmful gases from entering certain areas of the city. They are not prevented completely from entering, but face large fines if their vehicles are not adapted to reduce the levels of emissions produced. Air pollution contains many different substances, and is one of the biggest causes of man-made pollution in the UK. Road transport, particularly transport that uses diesel engines, contributes the most. The zones restrict the vehicles that have the worst effect on air quality with a system of local charging and regulation.

The idea is that individuals and particularly businesses with a large fleet of vehicles make simple changes to their vehicles, or alternatively replace them, so that they can drive through the area without receiving a charge. This will in turn protect the environment from ever worsening pollution levels. Such zones have been introduced elsewhere in Europe, with Germany having a national framework of more than 70 low emission zones, which has produced staggering results. Berlin alone saw a 58% reduction in diesel particulates, which obviously has had a huge, positive effect on the health of the local population.

Bath needs a handful of major infrastructure projects to reduce the amount of traffic in the city, thus reducing air pollution further. The introduction of a low emission zone will need to work as part of a wider strategy to reduce the amount of diesel cars passing through the city each day. In the previous Budget, the Chancellor championed the cross-party transport strategy that I hope will be implemented by my local authority—the first time it has been run by Conservatives in a very long time; in fact, ever. Only with this combined approach can we reduce the scarily high pollution levels in the city.

Low emission zones are not a new thing to the United Kingdom; the low emission zone in London provides a brilliant starting point for a national strategy. London began with the introduction of charges for vehicles that failed to meet emissions standards and is set to see the introduction of an ultra-low emission zone in 2020.

On a similar note, I am pleased that Transport for London has announced that new black cabs will no longer use diesel and must be capable of running on an electric battery from January 2018. 1 recently met Calor, the gas supplier, which advocates adopting liquefied petroleum gas taxis that would be another clean alternative that could help businesses adapt to the introduction of low emission zones.

Outside London, low emission zones have already been introduced in a handful of places across the UK, including Oxford, where many of the main roads in and out of the city have controls in place, and Brighton, which introduced a low emission zone for buses at the start of this year. Bath and North East Somerset completed a feasibility study in 2014. It found that air quality improvements could be made with the introduction of a low emission zone in the central area of Bath. I want to build on this study by working with the Minister and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to use the introduction of a low emission zone in Bath as a template for a system that could be replicated across the country in areas of dangerously high air pollution.

The technology currently exists for the police and/or local authorities to prevent high polluting vehicles from accessing built-up areas. The problem really rests in the inability of councils to enforce vehicle access. We need to find a way to enable local authorities to do that. We need to ensure there is improved collaboration on this issue. My understanding is that areas across the country have struggled to introduce low emission zones because Government agencies, including Highways England, the police service and a mixture of local authorities, have not been working in partnership in an effective way to deliver these zones. My hope is that, following the publication of the Government’s consultation, a framework will be introduced to ensure that these problems are ironed out.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there should be exemptions in low emission zones? A class of vehicle that should be exempt is the historic vehicle. The Government define such vehicles as vehicles more than 40 years old. They are used for many charitable and fundraising events and are a feature at most weddings. As they make up only 0.6% of licensed vehicles on the road, their contribution to pollution is negligible. I declare an interest as the owner of several such vehicles and as chairman of the all-party historic vehicles group.

[Ben Howlett]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his intervention. I do not wish to be the most unpopular person at every wedding in Bath, so I completely agree that certain vehicles need an exemption, particularly vehicles that cannot be updated. A 40-year limit seems a very sensible one if such vehicles make up only 0.6% of the total number of vehicles on our roads. If a national framework were introduced, such exemptions could easily be included so that drivers would not have to check the policy of each individual zone on their route.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I wholeheartedly agree. I am here to support low emission zones, but, if I can, I want to put into the debate the cost factor, because it has to be addressed. At the end of the day, we all pay for these things. I agree with the hon. Lady: if 82 people die in York every year because of emissions, let us do something about it. But I am asking who is going to pay to make that happen and how it will work. Will it be local councils, direct funding from Government or something else? We need to look at that. I am not saying that we should not do anything—we should—but I want to be told where the funding is coming from. That is the issue.

Might low emission zones negatively affect economic activity, particularly small and medium-sized businesses? Of all the regions of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland has the largest number of small and medium-sized businesses, which could be directly affected. Large businesses will be able to replace vehicles that fall short of the targets with relative ease compared with SMEs, and local, indigenous businesses will be hit hard if they are hindered in their ability to operate as a result of the introduction of low emission zones. I support the purpose of the debate, but make that point because we have to be honest and realistic about what is achievable. How do we achieve the goals that the hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) wants, that I want and that everyone else present wants? Perhaps we could alleviate concerns by introducing an exemption system or some sort of assistance for SMEs, particularly indigenous businesses.

We need to take action on this issue. The cost to the climate is too much, as is the cost to our quality of life.

[Sir Greg Knight]

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. Does he agree that if a zone is introduced heavy-handedly it could have the effect of making shoppers go to out-of-town shopping centres where parking is free, rather than go into town or city centres? It would therefore hit small businesses in our towns and cities.

[Jim Shannon]

As always, the right hon. Gentleman brings his experience and knowledge to the debate. I thank him for that intervention, which helps us develop our debate. I hope the shadow Minister and the Minister will respond to it. It should be done in the right way, and this debate is about how to achieve our goals.

I believe that, as public representatives, we should be bound to do our best to promote better public health. In Berlin, there have been real results from such zones. There are examples from around the world of where they have been successful. Perhaps the hon. Member for Bath mentioned this in his introduction—I am sorry if I missed that bit—but I think Berlin shows how it can be done. There has been a 58% reduction in diesel particulates and a 20% reduction in NOx. There is no doubt that the LEZs and ultra-low emission zones in Berlin work; it is just a matter of addressing the concerns that other hon. Members outlined.

We have to address the issue of emissions. We have to save the lives that the hon. Member for York Central wants to save in a way that we can afford. If we set goals and targets, I believe we can address the issues of emissions, the climate and public health while having as little a negative impact on stakeholders as possible. I am sorry for labouring that point.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rory Stewart)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship eventually, Mrs Moon. As your husband was a distinguished ecologist and created the local government network of ecologists, I am pleased that it should be an environmental subject that I have the privilege of presenting in front of you. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Ben Howlett) for securing this debate and thank others for their contributions, which I will try to wrap together, to consider what is a surprisingly tricky, important and evolving subject.

The first question is one of science, about which the hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) made several points in a couple of interventions. One of which was about the chemistry of diesel engines and their nitrogen dioxide content. I think that she was getting at the fact that diesel burns at a different temperature to petrol, producing more nitrogen dioxide. She also pointed out that some emissions may come from technically low emission vehicles. Nitrogen dioxide is our major concern today, but we are also concerned about particulate matter, and, as others mentioned in the debate, sources of emissions extend to other things apart from vehicles, including non-road mobile machinery, such as construction machinery, and domestic boilers. The sources extend right across the spectrum of vehicles, including buses, taxis, heavy goods vehicles, light goods vehicles and cars.

The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith), the shadow Minister, also focused on science and modelling. The modelling that we undertake in Britain is sophisticated, taking nearly three months to run, and European Union-accredited. It is unbelievably complicated, involving the overlaying of emissions and the balance of the fleet. For example, when my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) is driving through his area, his vehicle will have an impact on emissions in a particular place, and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned emissions from planes, which need to be put into a totally different part of the model due to atmospheric dispersion. The model therefore includes sources of emissions, a climate model, including how the wind moves things around, and the road network, and out of that we attempt to calculate nationally the number of micrograms per cubic metre. As pointed out by the shadow Minister and my hon. Friend the Member for Bath, local situations will always arise in which things are being captured that may not be captured by the national model. Equally, the national model will be much better at reliably catching the national picture than can be achieved on a grid basis.

The shadow Minister mentioned Oxford Street, and I absolutely agree that the situation is shocking. It is terrible that the levels, at 120 micrograms per cubic metre, are three times the EU limit. However, I gently challenge the idea that that is the worst in the world. Someone on a visit to Beijing, Delhi or a number of cities in Latin America will find considerably higher levels, but the situation on Oxford Street is indeed shocking. Such levels will have a serious impact on human health, which was raised by the hon. Member for Strangford.

There is also the question of cost: what do we do about the problem, and where do we allocate the costs? We now have a better understanding of the cost to human health, which has two elements. There is the indirect cost to human health. There is the value that we put on our own lives and the fact that people, if they have lung diseases or heart diseases, may die prematurely. The Treasury attaches an economic value to that, which is a slightly bizarre process. There is also the direct cost to the national health service of trying to treat people. The hon. Member for Strangford challenged us to try to integrate much more how we use the NHS budget, public health, how we think about air quality and the measures that might be taken by my Department or the Department for Transport.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Falkirk (John Mc Nally) for his speech. His example—as he said himself, it was perhaps more Dundee than Falkirk—shows how we can learn from the devolved Administrations again and again. In environmental policy, we are already learning from Wales’s approach to recycling and from Scotland, in particular Zero Waste Scotland. Different approaches are often taken across borders. The Dundee example of electric vehicles and potentially electric bicycles is something that we are happy to learn from, and we are happy to exchange ideas across borders.

The fundamental challenge posed by the hon. Member for Bath and the shadow Minister was, “What on earth do we do about this? How do we address these problems?” The shadow Minister put his finger on two problems, one of which was how to get the balance right between the national and the local. He was saying that it is all very well the Department pontificating and saying, “This is where we want to get to,” but the local authorities are given the job of responding to it without resources. The other problem was how to allocate the resources and costs, which was also the challenge of the hon. Member for Strangford.

One way of understanding the dilemma is to look closely at the exact example raised by the hon. Member for Bath. How does the balance work? Bath, fortunately, is modelled not to be in exceedance by 2020. This is a devolved issue, but the cities we are particularly concerned about in England are Birmingham, Leeds, Nottingham, Derby, Southampton and London. They are our major concerns and we have a different approach to each city—Bath is a good example. Forty micrograms per cubic metre on average of ambient air quality is an EU-set target, but we want to do better than that, because of the benefits to human health. We would like to reach the target sooner rather than later.

Since Roman times, Bath has been a great symbol of health in this country. It was where Roman tourists and 18th century tourists alike went for their health; it is a world heritage site based on the idea of health. We should certainly have a clean air zone in a place that is seen as a great symbol of health.

The council in Bath has led in a number of ways. This is a good example of the local-national thing. The council already has an extraordinary project on bicycles—Bath’s answer to the Boris bike—which has just launched and has 5,000 bikes in operation. The council has a good approach to electric vehicle charging and has more than 20 electric vehicle charging points, with businesses also building their own charging points. It has invested in hybrid buses. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has been proud to co-operate in a small way on the Bath website and on some of the research into moving towards low emission vehicles. Now Bath has come forward with a proposal to have its own low emission zone, which we welcome.

There has to be a national contribution, which I will set out in a moment, but the reason why getting the balance between local and national is vital is that we can see in a single road such as Rossiter Road in Bath an exceedance reduced by 18 micrograms per cubic metre through a single local intervention. It is not sensible for the Department to fantasise that, sitting here in London with a 300-mile screwdriver, we have a solution for 28 cities. Much will be about having active traffic management systems.

One Labour MP, the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), came to me with a brilliant idea about how to resolve diesel pollution issues caused by passenger vessels docking in port. It involved setting up electricity charging points, so that the vessels did not have to run off their diesel engines. He found a solution that involves the local enterprise partnership and the local council. Such solutions can have much more of an impact much more rapidly than our simply mandating things from the centre.

As for cities where we will be in exceedance by 2020, however, we are clear that we will take action. The Government are determined to be in compliance. In 2020, we will be judged on whether we are below 40 micrograms per cubic metre in every city in England, with the exception of London, and we will be in compliance in London by 2025. We will ensure that we put structures in place to support local initiatives.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bath made a final challenge: can we produce a standardised system of low emission zones to be rolled out across the cities? Yes, of course we can. The point of our consultation is to provide four straightforward models of what low emission zones—what we call clean air zones—can look like. The first model deals with buses and taxis; the second with buses, taxis and heavy goods vehicles; the third with buses, taxis, HGVs and light goods vehicles; and the fourth one goes all the way down to cars.

[Sir Greg Knight]

Does the Minister agree with me and the Mayor of London that there is a case for exempting historic vehicles from any restrictions or penalties?

[Rory Stewart]

My right hon. Friend makes a powerful point and one we will have to think about. We have to get the balance with simplicity right, and that is what we are trying to achieve. The request made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bath for a straightforward, simple system was a good one. The objective is for an HGV driver to know that the same rules apply throughout England or, ideally, if we can work with the devolved Administrations, throughout the United Kingdom, so that we do not have different rules in different places. Provided we can achieve simplicity and a national standard, however, I can see a good argument for excluding historic vehicles. In essence, because the low emission zones would be standard, provided that HGV drivers had a Euro 6 diesel engine in their lorry, for example, they would know that they could enter any of the zones anywhere in the country, as such vehicles would be exempt. We do not want to end up with a situation in which any individual business has no idea what is happening when it turns up somewhere.

We have made some progress since the 1970s. The hon. Member for Strangford reminded us about the problems of smog, which were much worse. In the late 1940s, some incidents cost thousands of lives over two or three days. Since then, we have reduced sulphur dioxide by a dramatic 90%, which was an extraordinary achievement, particulate matter by 73% and the nitrogen oxides, NOx, by 62%, but we can still do better and we have a huge opportunity to do so. The Government have put £2 billion into that.

The real game in town is to ensure not only that by 2020 or 2025 we meet the targets, but that by 2050 we are in the lead and that, with the exception of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire and his exotic car, we are predominantly driving electric vehicles. We can see the direction in which we are going: Britain should be in the industrial lead, and we should be the country where such vehicles are manufactured and tested.

Animal Welfare (Non-stun Slaughter)

Greg Knight Excerpts

Monday 23rd February 2015 Westminster Hall

[Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, and to speak after the hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), who opened the debate very well. I note that the last time I spoke in a Westminster Hall debate on this matter, he was in the Chair. It has been good to hear his views this afternoon.

I welcome this debate. It is important that we debate this very emotive issue in an atmosphere of calm in which, hopefully, reason can dominate, rather than the hysteria that we sometimes see in the national media. Certainly there was much more hysteria the last time this issue was debated in Westminster Hall, and religious minority communities in this country—the Muslim and Jewish communities—rightly felt picked on and unfairly scrutinised. It was as if people were saying that their way of life was significantly more cruel, and that they were more reckless as to the level of cruelty than any other communities, which is a deeply unfair mischaracterisation of the seriousness with which practising religious minority communities in this country take their religious obligations.

It is clear from some interventions that significant points of disagreement will remain at the end of the debate, but it is important that we continue to examine these issues in an atmosphere that, as the hon. Member for Kettering said, generates light rather than heat. As I have noted before, I am a practising Muslim, so the debate matters to me on a personal level, but I also represent many thousands of practising Muslims and Jews, and both communities have written to ask me to place on the record in this debate their views and feelings.

It is interesting to note that the first national legislative requirement in England and Wales for stunning before slaughter was in the Slaughter of Animals Act 1933, which, even then, retained an exception from stunning for religious slaughter by Jews and Muslims. That strikes me as a very British approach to an issue that is clearly of long-standing interest to both the public and legislators in this place. The Government have made it clear—this is my understanding; I hope that the Minister will confirm it this afternoon—that they do not intend to move away from having an exception in the law for religious non-stun slaughter. I welcome that commitment on behalf of my constituents, for whom this is an incredibly important issue.

As we have heard in the debate, the key point of disagreement is of course about welfare. I have to say to hon. Members who tried to make a distinction between a debate that is focused on religion and one that is focused on welfare that it is actually very difficult to make that distinction. For those of us who are members of a religious minority in this country and who practise our faith, it is very difficult to hear people say, “Actually, we are talking about only one thing here, not something else. You shouldn’t really feel so strongly about it.” That is simply not possible to do. All these issues are tied in intimately with one another and should therefore be considered in that context.

There will be differing views, and different pieces of science that we can quote at one another in support of our respective positions on whether non-stun slaughter is or can be described as humane, but one point that is often not made in these debates is that for religious minority communities, the non-stun slaughter of animals must be done in a way that ensures that the animal does not suffer. The whole reason for having those rules and laws in the first place was precisely to prevent the suffering of animals. It is testimony to the importance of the ancient texts that laid down those laws that there was such concern for animal rights at that point. That motivation and desire to ensure that an animal does not suffer needless pain is important for everyone to remember when we debate these matters.

I also make the point that for religious people, who are looking for religious slaughter of animals before they consume meat, that act itself is an act of faith, because religious people, who care about these issues, do not take the killing of animals lightly. The hon. Member for Kettering made the point that there is no good way to kill an animal—I made that exact point in the last debate—but for religious communities, the right to take the life of an animal is an expression of faith. It is a God-given right that can be exercised only in very specific and prescribed circumstances. For people who take their religious obligations seriously and who practise their religious obligations, these are matters of great concern. These things are not done in a way that is negligent or reckless as to what act is being committed.

Practising Muslims and Jews know, when they are consuming meat, that as a matter of religious law, they are allowed that meat only in certain circumstances. They recognise that the animal had a life and then died. They care about that fact before they consume that meat. It is important to recognise that, because often the debate happens in a way that implies that we simply do not care about the welfare of animals—we just want it our way and no other way—without recognising the reasons behind how those ways came about.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Before the hon. Lady concludes her remarks, will she deal with the point about labelling? Surely there can be no objection to supporting more comprehensive labelling of halal meat.

[Shabana Mahmood]

I am grateful for that intervention. The next part of my remarks is about precisely that: labelling. However, before I leave the issue of welfare, I want to say—this point was made by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas)—that enforcement of the current rules on welfare is just as important, when we discuss these issues, as whether religious slaughter is humane or can be done in other ways, because any abuse of the current rules does not exactly inspire confidence that any additional rules that we may bring in will be followed.

The point about mis-stunning is really important. For religious communities, the risk that an animal has been mis-stunned would negate the claim that it had been slaughtered in accordance with religious rites. Even those who accept that stunning might be possible under a different reading of religious law would not tolerate mis-stunning, which is cruel and barbaric.

Fishing Industry

Greg Knight Excerpts

Thursday 11th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab)]

It is, as ever, a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I commend the excellent speeches of my hon. Friends the Members for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell) and for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran), and thank them for their work throughout their years in this House on behalf of the fishing industry. As they have acknowledged, this will be their last fisheries debate, although the rest of us are hoping that that will not be the case for us. As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen North said, I look forward to this issue being discussed in Government time and not at the behest or whim of the Backbench Business Committee. It is too important a subject not to have a place in Government time if the Government believe the fishing industry to be important.

I want to touch on three things: first, my local fishing community; secondly, matters relating to North Shields fishing port; and thirdly I will mention some concerns that fishermen have raised with me. My local fishing community does not need to be reminded of how dangerous an occupation fishing can be. In North Shields this year we commemorated the 40th anniversary of the sinking of fishing vessel Gaul, which involved great loss of life. On 8 February 1974 the Gaul sank with the loss of 36 crew, including six from the North Shields area. It had previously sailed out of the Tyne as the Ranger Castor, and earlier this year a plaque was placed on the site where it berthed, bearing the names of those who lost their lives: John O’Brien, James Wales, James Woodhouse, Neil Petersen, James Mclellan and Ronald Bowles. I pay respect to them, and also to their families who over the years have persevered in their quest to find out what happened on that tragic day.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen North reminded us, last month the Ocean Way, a vessel registered at Fraserburgh, sailed out of the Tyne and was lost some 100 miles off the Farne Islands, with the loss of a local skipper and two Filipino crew. We owe a great deal to the rescue services that work on our behalf, and I commend the Fishermen’s Mission, which plays an important role in local communities on such occasions. Although land based, I also congratulate the Tynemouth Volunteer Life Brigade, which celebrates its 150th anniversary this year.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that respect for the dangers that fishermen face comes from all parties of the House, and that we appreciate the dangerous job they do?

[Mr Campbell]

It is a pleasure to do that. That respect is something we all share and exists in fishing communities, whoever they send to the House to represent them.

North Shields fishing port is one of the most important ports on the east coast—certainly the most important port between the Humber and the border—and its regeneration over the years is taking shape with good-quality houses and some excellent restaurants. However, it is still a working fishing port that is responsible for hundreds of local jobs, and boats come from all over the United Kingdom to use its facilities, particularly the fish market.

There is a constant need for regeneration and renewal in such a historical place. The Western Quay regeneration is complete, but work needs to be done on the fish quay where fish are landed. I know from experience that schemes require the involvement of all sorts of different bodies, including the fish quay company, the local authority, the MMO and the Port of Tyne—it previously would have involved the development agency. European funding plays an important part, too.

I therefore have two questions for the Minister. First, in the past, regeneration has been agreed by all parties—until the question of money is raised, when they look out of the window or stare at their shoes. I am not asking the Minister for money. I am asking for a commitment on behalf of all the Government agencies that might be involved to use their good offices—and resources, if they have them—to ensure that that regeneration goes ahead. If it does not, the industry in the area could be in trouble.

Secondly, will the Minister confirm that the European Commission has launched a major investigation into previous funding in the region because of issues of governance? Is it true that the Commission has refused to sign off the €464 million for the region? What are the implications for schemes such as the fish quay at North Shields?

Avian Influenza

Greg Knight Excerpts

Monday 17th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

I thank the hon. Lady for her response. I am sure she will agree that very swift action has already been taken from the time of the original notification on Friday. We have already seen the testing taking place and the imposition of the restriction zone within which no movements are allowed.

On the hon. Lady’s specific question, people will be able to do that only if they are issued with a specific licence, and that will follow testing. We have set up a national control centre to deal with this disease. A local operation will be run out of Beverley to make sure that appropriate resources are put in place for surveillance in the local area.

We are taking this extremely seriously. One of my priorities as Secretary of State is to make sure that we are protected from animal and plant disease. One of the things we have done since 2010 is to protect the number of veterinary staff within our organisations to make sure that we have the resources to deal with disease outbreaks such as this. We have a good record, but we cannot be complacent. That is why earlier this year the Government released a new strategy on dealing with biosecurity risks and notifiable diseases.

The hon. Lady asked a number of questions. First, let us be clear that the Food Standards Agency has said that this does not pose a risk to food safety for UK consumers. That is a very important point. The chicken and turkey that people eat continue to be safe. This is a live animal disease. It is very important that we take steps to deal with it as soon as we are able, and that is what we have done. It poses a risk to the bird population, but it is an animal disease, not a human disease. I want to make that point very clearly.

The hon. Lady asked about protection for people working in farms in the area. As regards the risk to human health, we have put in place protections for the people on the farm that has been affected, and other local farms also have those protections in place. However, as I have said, the risk to human health is very low. That view has been supported not just by Public Health England but by the chief medical officer.

We are working with our European counterparts. Our organisation, APHA—the Animal and Plant Health Agency—is closely co-operating with those in the Netherlands and Germany to make sure that we are fully updated on what is happening.

We are at the early stages of examining what strain this is. We have ruled out H5N1 but we are looking closely at what strain it is. That is the work of the chief veterinary officer and we will know more in the coming days. Detailed work needs to be done so we are continuing to do that.

We have seen a good co-ordinated effort from all kinds of organisations, including the industry, the National Farmers Union, the police and the Animal and Plant Health Agency, and we need to keep that up to make sure we stamp out this disease. All the experience of animal disease shows that it is important to take early and swift action and make sure it is stamped out.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

I am sure the whole House is grateful to the Minister for making this statement today. Will she confirm that resources will not be an issue, and that whatever needs to be done will be done to eradicate this outbreak? Does she agree that in due course there should be a review of what has happened so that lessons can be learned? Will she look at the question of compensation for those whose businesses have been adversely affected? For the present, will she confirm that no holidaymaker intending to come to the East Riding need change their plans, and that east Yorkshire remains open for business?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I can assure my right hon. Friend that east Yorkshire is most definitely open for business. The restrictions that we have put in place are specifically on the poultry industry. Compensation will be paid to farmers. We will do that in a robust fashion that is properly audited, learning lessons from previous disease outbreaks. My right hon. Friend is right that it is important that we see the value to the wider £210 billion rural economy. Food and farming are important, which is why we are dealing with this disease outbreak as quickly and as effectively as possible, but we must also see the wider benefits to the rural economy.

National Pollinator Strategy

Greg Knight Excerpts

Thursday 16th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Is not it worth reinforcing the point that people who are concerned about this do not have to wait for some grand Government plan but can play a part themselves by planting pollen-rich flowers in their gardens?

[Sarah Newton]

My right hon. Friend makes a good point. People need some guidance, because different types of bees need different types of plants in the garden and at different times of the year. One of the roles that DEFRA will have to play in implementing the strategy is to give clear advice on the sorts of flowers and plants that gardeners all over the country could plant to help their native pollinators.

As in so many policy areas, it is very important that good guidance is put in place for local authorities so that local solutions can be found, especially in the planning process so that planners can build in good habitats for pollinator well-being. Environmental impact statements are required for other species, so why not pollinators too?

Humber Flood Risk Management Strategy

Greg Knight Excerpts

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Westminster Hall

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) on securing this debate on a subject that, to different extents, touches all of us in the Chamber today. I do not intend to repeat the arguments that he adduced to the Chamber. He made an excellent speech and made the case very well, but I will reiterate a number of points.

Included in the area at risk of flooding in the Humber and east Yorkshire area are 30,280 hectares of agricultural land and the UK’s largest storm water pumping station. Those problems need to be addressed. One of my biggest concerns about the present situation is the flood defence grant in aid system, which determines who receives help. The system largely favours urban areas because it dictates that residential properties have the highest risk ratings. That means that rural areas have little weighting, meaning they have less chance of securing funding, which could have a serious negative effect on food production and the sustainability of agribusinesses in this country. With a significant proportion of the UK’s high-grade agricultural land in low-lying areas such as east Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, there is likely to be a danger to the UK’s food security and independence unless something is done.

Furthermore, smaller residential settlements in rural areas find it difficult to attract flood defence grant in aid funding because of the formula, which means that if flood risk cannot be addressed or mitigated, there is a danger that rural communities will not only remain at risk but may become less viable over the longer term. As east Yorkshire is comparatively remote, there are significant co-dependencies between work forces and businesses in rural areas and the East Riding urban areas. That should be taken into account in any adjustment of the formula by the Government.

One of my constituents contacted me a few days ago and said, “We have a climate change levy in this country. When assessing what to do with the money raised by that levy, surely there cannot be anything more important, in expenditure terms, than flood prevention. Why is the climate change levy revenue, among other measures, not being ring-fenced for flood defences?” Perhaps the Minister will give us his thoughts on that.

I hope the Minister will agree to look again at the formula and agree that we need not only a properly funded flood defence system across the country but an integrated approach to flood risk management, which the current level of expenditure and the current formula do not deliver.

The right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) mentioned the devastation across the whole eastern part of the country in 1953, and indeed there was widespread flooding and devastation then. After that disaster a fireman, Andy Devine, who was called on to help, said:

“Where we had to pump out, there was the sea one side and water the other side…we might just as well have tried to pump the sea dry.”

Such a hopeless situation must never be allowed to happen again. Being invaded by floodwater, from whatever source, is just as devastating to a thatched cottage as to a terraced house. I hope the Minister will now deliver effective action that will help east Yorkshire to face future flood risks with more confidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), whose points on flood insurance are well rehearsed. I supported her on the matter during proceedings on the Water Act 2014. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) on securing the debate. Coming on last means that unfortunately I will be repeating not only what he has said but what many other right hon. and hon. Members have said, but as we have 10 or 11 minutes until the Front Benchers start to be called, I am sure that you will indulge me in that endeavour, Sir Roger.

The Minister will, sadly, hear again many things that I have previously said, not least because at the time of the tidal surge we were considering the Water Bill and I was serving on the Committee. I used that opportunity on more than one occasion to regale the Minister with accounts of what was happening in my area, but just for the record I want to talk about my constituency again now, with specific reference to what happened in December.

My constituency was hit most of all in December and, as any flood extent map will show, it remains the constituency with the most land at risk of flooding. Unfortunately, we were hit from three sources. We saw the Humber coming over at South Ferriby and Winteringham, the Trent coming over at Burton-upon-Stather, Burringham, Keadby and Amcotts and the Ouse coming over at Reedness, so in total about 11 communities and 300 to 400 properties were flooded. As right hon. and hon. Members have said, we were lucky, although we do not feel particularly lucky, that the impact was not a lot greater.

I live right on the bank of the River Aire, and I was standing by the river at the time of the surge that evening. The water was within inches of coming over, even though we enjoy very high levels of protection there—the highest that the Environment Agency offers. I was also standing on the banks the next morning for the high tide of the River Ouse at Goole, which also had a near miss and where there are 18,000 residents. Had the circumstances come together in the way that other right hon. and hon. Members have said we were lucky to avoid, our area would have been devastated.

Unfortunately, such events are not new to our area or, in particular, to my constituency. We had flooding in Goole in 2011, 2012, 2007 and 2008, and in Crowle in 2012. It is a recurring theme in our area, not least because of the geography. The flood risk extent maps explain why. My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden gave a potted history of the draining undertaken by Vermuyden in our area. That was hundreds of years ago. People have been living happily in our area since then, and it is of concern to people, as my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) said, that previous regimes and previous flood plans seem to operate on the premise that the rural areas can operate as a sponge, or be sacrificed, for the benefit of other areas. I want to explain why that is particularly dangerous in my constituency.

In 2007 we were faced with the first draft of the River Trent flood catchment management plan. Had it not been for the IDBs and several farmers who were well educated on the issue of flooding, that could well have been the policy that the Environment Agency adopted. It was only by arguing—we got up petitions and all the rest of it—that the Environment Agency was made to think again and to reassess the matter. It concluded that had it adopted the policy that it originally wanted to adopt, which was one of withdrawal, retreat and sacrifice, the entirety of the Isle of Axholme, apart from two high spots at Epworth, would have been underwater within a decade or two.

[Sir Greg Knight]

If the Government of the day, as a matter of policy, decide that it is all right to allow agricultural land to be flooded, is there not an argument to say that farmers should be paid for storing water just as they are for growing crops?

[Andrew Percy]

That is an interesting idea. I think that we would all prefer it if farmers were allowed to continue producing food, but my right hon. Friend raises one of the biggest criticisms of the current funding regime: the value placed on agricultural land is not sufficient. I am not against flood alleviation projects—of course not—and that includes the sacrificing of land at Alkborough flats in my constituency. That operated very well and possibly lowered water levels in the Trent to such an extent that it prevented a couple of communities from flooding. We do not have a problem with some of these schemes, in appropriate areas. What we have a problem with is the value placed on agricultural land and rural communities generally under the current system. In the original drafts of the various flood catchment plans for our area, there seemed to be a policy of retreat and sacrifice of rural areas. That has abated somewhat through various processes, for which we are very grateful.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden and others, including the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson), have highlighted the nationally important infrastructure in our area and the national risk register. In my constituency, to add to the list of nationally important infrastructure that we all seem to be trotting out today, there is of course the port of Goole, which is England’s busiest and biggest inland port. We also have the power station at Keadby, which of course was one of the communities flooded in December. There is the Drax power station just across the way, and biomass imports come through my constituency via the railway lines. My hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) talked about petrochemicals, and of course we have the motorway and rail infrastructure and agricultural land. I believe that 55% to 60% of our land is grade A agricultural land, so it is some of the most productive land in the country.

We have mentioned the Isle of Axholme, but of course the defences along the Trent and the Ouse do not just protect the 50,000 acres and 20,000 residents there. They are also major defences for Doncaster and Thorne. A catastrophic breach of those defences would have a significant impact on Doncaster, but although that is sometimes taken into account, it is not always accounted for in funding decisions.

Pig Farming

Greg Knight Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bayley. I am delighted to have secured this debate, as we have reached a critical juncture in the British pig industry. I am also particularly pleased to see the Minister in his place, as I know that he is a friend and ally of Britain’s pig farmers and has taken a lot of trouble to understand the problems faced by the industry.

We should not underestimate the size of the industry. The value of pork retail sales in the UK is about £8.7 billion, outpacing chicken, beef or lamb. This is an important industry, but I am sorry to say that it is in trouble. Just three weeks ago, pig farmers from our constituencies and across the country flocked to Westminster to draw the Government’s attention to the plight of their industry. Many MPs will have signed the 16-foot sausage in Whitehall and heard the rousing rendition of the industry anthem “Stand By Your Ham”, all in support of the cry, “Pigs are still worth it!”

I say “still worth it” because the Minister and other colleagues with long memories may recall attending the 2008 “Pigs are worth it” rally. Like this month’s rally, the 2008 gathering was a response to a sharp increase in feed costs that left the industry on the brink of collapse. After the 2008 rally, led by the much-missed standard-bearer of the “Pigs are worth it” campaign, Winnie the pig, the industry returned to profit in 2009. That breathing space allowed farmers to recoup some of their losses and take the opportunity to invest in improvements to production and infrastructure.

Despite fluctuations in profit margins, the outlook remained positive, at least for a few months, until last August, when the industry was driven into crisis once more. The fleeting period of profitability was not long or profitable enough for pig farmers to recoup the severe losses that they sustained in 2007-08.

[Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, and I congratulate him on securing the debate. Does he agree that one problem has been our loose labelling law? Many consumers wanting to support the British pig farmer by buying British pork have not always known when they were doing so, because it is possible to package pork reared overseas as British if it is merely processed here.

[Mr Bacon]

My right hon. Friend is correct. He might have seen my Food Labelling Regulations (Amendment) Bill, which is scheduled for Second Reading on 1 April. Should the Government wish to take this opportunity to announce that they will give it Government time, I would be only too pleased to hand it over to officials to be steered through the House. Yesterday, I was encouraged by a phone call from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs asking to see a copy. It is important to say that there has been some improvement in labelling in the pork sector, but I still believe and have always maintained that the only viable long-term answer is a mandatory regime. We already have mandatory regimes for many other foodstuffs; we should have one for pork and pork products as well.

The inexorable slide into loss-making as rising feed prices have affected the industry has begun to cripple pig farmers in this country once again. The price that pig farmers pay for feed has more than doubled since 2010. Feed costs are rising faster than during the crisis of 2008, and I am afraid that the omens for the future are not good. BPEX—the British Pig Executive, which is the industry body—estimates that feed, which is generally made up of a combination of wheat, barley and soya, remains the single largest cost for British pig producers and accounts for 77% of pig farmers’ costs, up from 60% in 2009. BPEX expects food costs to remain historically high this year, and possibly beyond.

That gloomy forecast is being borne out by recent movements on the international cereals market. The Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations expects a tightening of the global cereal supply this year, driven by growing demand after the slump in world cereal production in 2010. According to the FAO, export prices of major grains have risen at least 70% since February last year, and global cereal stocks are expected to fall sharply due to a decline in supplies of wheat and coarse grains. Market uncertainty after the Japanese earthquake caused prices to fall from £214 a tonne in February to £170 a tonne last week, but as of last Friday, wheat prices had climbed back to £195 a tonne. As one might imagine, recent increases in the price of pig feed have had a severe impact on the cost of pig production, which has risen to £1.64 a kilogram.

However, although production costs continue to rise, the dead-weight average pig price—the price farmers receive for the pigs they produce—has fallen during the same period. In February, the DAPP stood at £1.35 a kilogram, 29p short of covering pig farmers’ costs and 12p a kilogram below the July 2010 price of £1.47 a kilogram.

Britain’s pig farmers started 2010 in a state of cautious optimism, their hope to rebuild based on the reasonably steady costs that they faced and their improved returns in 2009, but by September 2010 the industry had returned to making a loss, and by January 2011 the cost of production had risen by one third compared with 2007. According to BPEX, a farmer sending 200 pigs to slaughter in January this year stood to lose £4,500 in a single week. The pig industry is facing overall losses of £4 million a week, and farmers are estimated to be losing more than £21 on every pig produced.

Although the rising price of feed is undoubtedly a major factor in the pain being suffered by British pig farmers, it is far from being the only factor. The pressure on Britain’s pig industry caused by rising feed prices is being amplified by what can only be described as the decoupling of the supply chain. For a supply chain to work properly, manufacturers, processors and retailers must work collaboratively to bring down its costs effectively and sustainably. However, it is clear that the pressure of high feed costs is not being shared across the pigmeat supply chain. If anything, the reverse is the case. Feed manufacturers have passed on the rise in the cost of cereals to their customers—that is, pig farmers—but the costs of rising prices have stopped with farmers and are not being passed up the supply chain to producers and retailers.

The disconnect in the pigmeat supply chain can best be illustrated by the relative performance of its constituent parts in the 12 weeks up to the end of January 2011. In that period, British pig farmers suffered losses estimated at £35 million, which equates roughly to £416,000 every calendar day. However, over the same 12-week period, the processing sector made an estimated profit of £100 million, or just over £1 million a day. Retailers, including Britain’s supermarkets, which set much store by their support for British farmers, enjoyed combined profits of £192 million from pork and pork product sales, equivalent to daily profits of £2.3 million.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bayley. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Mr Bacon) on securing the debate. I hope he will not mind if I take his name in vain. Pigmeat is really important to this country and, dare I say it, there is never a better way to start the day than with a cup of tea and a bacon sandwich. I can hear people salivating around me as I mention that. The state of the industry has already been well described, and there have been numerous interventions from hon. Members about some of the points that I will try to present in a slightly different way in my speech. There is no doubt, however, that the industry needs some action from the Government. I will ask for clarity on actions that are already under way, and make some suggestions about the future.

In 1998, this country was 80% self-sufficient in producing enough pigmeat for our needs. This year we are at 48%, for reasons that have already been referred to: aspects of the animal welfare standards; the stall and tether and castration bans; and the dumping of cheap meat on our market, especially when we had the German dioxin feed scare. The current value chain has been well documented. I received my figures from one of my local farmers, Jimmy Butler of Blythburgh Pork, who has approximately 18,000 pigs at any one time, all of which are free range and very tasty. I had better not promote any more producers. He told me that farmers effectively end up losing £20 per pig. From the figures he gave me, the farming industry loses £4 million per week, while processors make £8 million, and retailers make £16 million, profit per week. There are various causes. We have already heard that the pricing that cannot be agreed with supermarkets, but there is also an issue about the price of feedstock. I appreciate that the Government cannot control that particular aspect of the input, but they can do something about the output prices in their proposed legislation for groceries and the inclusion of a draft adjudicator code for supermarkets. There is also the issue of welfare standards.

[Mr Knight]

My hon. Friend has introduced an important issue to the debate—the dioxin scare in Germany, which has caused a fall-off in demand for pork in that country. Is there a sign of hope in the fact that the lack of demand for pork in Germany is likely to be a very short-lived phenomenon, and will hopefully lead to prices being a little more buoyant in future than they have been this year?

[Dr Coffey]

My right hon. Friend makes a very good point. I hope that that will be the case and, going even further, that our British farmers will be able to exploit an export opportunity. It would be interesting to see Germans eating British sausages, rather than their own bratwurst, but why not? We have won on other fronts in Germany in the last century and I am sure that our pig farmers would be proud to go in and make sure that an English wurst—