Low Emission Zones

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak on this issue. I do not have a large contribution to make. Usually I am a man of many words, but on this issue I will be a man of few words. Nevertheless, I want to contribute to the debate if I can. I thank the hon. Member for Bath (Ben Howlett) for calling for this debate. I very much look forward to the responses by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith), and by the Minister, who always brings a flair to his responses, so I look forward to hearing him. I remember the Adjournment debate in which he fiercely defended the lion as the national emblem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I live in and represent a largely rural constituency, Strangford. I am fortunate that when I get up in the morning I can breathe the fresh sea air of Strangford lough. I live in the countryside and because of that I have never had to deal with the emissions referred to by the hon. Member for Bath. I have been very fortunate to have always lived in the countryside, and I thank God for that. My constituency is not directly affected by the problems arising from high levels of emissions, but neighbouring constituencies experience a lot of congestion, and when I join those queues of cars, as I do when I go through Belfast or to the airport—wherever it may be—when I am sitting in the car, with the traffic nose to tail, I understand what it means to have all those emissions around. Even if the windows are up, this is the time of the year when heaters are going, drawing emissions into the car.

There is pollution from cars, but also from the large volume of air travel. Perhaps the Minister can give his thoughts on that. It seems to me that there is an understanding of the issue of emissions from air travel. Some of the planes that are being built now would help to address that, but until the transition to those new planes, we have to deal with the issue as it is, as the hon. Member for Bath said. Pollution brings with it the ultimate effects on the climate, which we cannot ignore, as well as the negative effects on public health, particularly in places close to where emissions are emitted. We have a duty to our citizens when it comes to public health, and we must address that.

The Minister will reply within the scope of his departmental responsibility, but there are other responsibilities, and perhaps he needs to work with other Departments. When he responds, I would be interested to hear about his relationship with, for example, the Department of Health, and about how he will work alongside other Departments to make things better. It is through no fault of their own that citizens come into contact with or are subject to dirty air as a result of emissions. They should not have to suffer the consequent negative impacts on their health. More needs to be done to protect people from the detrimental health effects of being around dirty and polluted air. We have moved on a great deal. We can all remember those grainy images on TV in the 1950s and 1960s—well, I am not sure whether everyone can, but I can—where smog just enveloped everyone, and they had to live in and breathe it. Thank goodness we have made gigantic steps to stop that.

The aim of low emission zones should be welcomed, and such zones could achieve real results if implemented properly. As always, though, we need to be mindful of the potential unintended consequences. I wholeheartedly support what the hon. Member for Bath said, but there is a cost factor, and we should be very cognisant of that, and of what it means. It is all right for many of us, including me, to say, “Let’s take the steps and make the difference,” but if we add in the cost factor, perhaps people’s zeal might be tempered slightly.

[Rachael Maskell]

In York, it has been estimated that every year 82 people die prematurely as a result of emissions. Surely that cost should be put above other costs.

[Jim Shannon]

I wholeheartedly agree. I am here to support low emission zones, but, if I can, I want to put into the debate the cost factor, because it has to be addressed. At the end of the day, we all pay for these things. I agree with the hon. Lady: if 82 people die in York every year because of emissions, let us do something about it. But I am asking who is going to pay to make that happen and how it will work. Will it be local councils, direct funding from Government or something else? We need to look at that. I am not saying that we should not do anything—we should—but I want to be told where the funding is coming from. That is the issue.

Might low emission zones negatively affect economic activity, particularly small and medium-sized businesses? Of all the regions of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland has the largest number of small and medium-sized businesses, which could be directly affected. Large businesses will be able to replace vehicles that fall short of the targets with relative ease compared with SMEs, and local, indigenous businesses will be hit hard if they are hindered in their ability to operate as a result of the introduction of low emission zones. I support the purpose of the debate, but make that point because we have to be honest and realistic about what is achievable. How do we achieve the goals that the hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) wants, that I want and that everyone else present wants? Perhaps we could alleviate concerns by introducing an exemption system or some sort of assistance for SMEs, particularly indigenous businesses.

We need to take action on this issue. The cost to the climate is too much, as is the cost to our quality of life.

[Sir Greg Knight]

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. Does he agree that if a zone is introduced heavy-handedly it could have the effect of making shoppers go to out-of-town shopping centres where parking is free, rather than go into town or city centres? It would therefore hit small businesses in our towns and cities.

[Jim Shannon]

As always, the right hon. Gentleman brings his experience and knowledge to the debate. I thank him for that intervention, which helps us develop our debate. I hope the shadow Minister and the Minister will respond to it. It should be done in the right way, and this debate is about how to achieve our goals.

I believe that, as public representatives, we should be bound to do our best to promote better public health. In Berlin, there have been real results from such zones. There are examples from around the world of where they have been successful. Perhaps the hon. Member for Bath mentioned this in his introduction—I am sorry if I missed that bit—but I think Berlin shows how it can be done. There has been a 58% reduction in diesel particulates and a 20% reduction in NOx. There is no doubt that the LEZs and ultra-low emission zones in Berlin work; it is just a matter of addressing the concerns that other hon. Members outlined.

We have to address the issue of emissions. We have to save the lives that the hon. Member for York Central wants to save in a way that we can afford. If we set goals and targets, I believe we can address the issues of emissions, the climate and public health while having as little a negative impact on stakeholders as possible. I am sorry for labouring that point.

[John Mc Nally (Falkirk) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Bath (Ben Howlett) for securing this debate. I declare a family interest: I have a relative who is involved in charging points in Scotland. I want to make that open and plain.

I have been here only since May, but I have been impressed by the knowledge that we gain. I am proud and privileged to be a member of the Environmental Audit Committee. The Minister appeared before us and gave us wonderful information about the Volkswagen scandal. I cannot say that I agree with him, but I was totally impressed by his knowledge of the situation. He was particularly honest, and everybody in the Committee appreciated it.

There is huge cross-party recognition that we need to do something. Some years ago, I visited Bath and Wells and the surrounding district—if I remember correctly, Cheddar gorge is in that area—so I know it is extremely busy. It is a beautiful area that I would go back to if I had time, but I totally get what the hon. Gentleman meant when he described it as a death route. The map that he produced is probably significant to lots of people in the House.

The area that I represent is similar to that of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I have the benefit of being 10 minutes away from canals, mountains, hills and rivers. We are building fish ladders and hydro pumps, and there is a general trend towards getting people out and about, walking and cycling, which can only be good for public health. One of our biggest employers, Alexander Dennis Ltd, has just signed a £2 billion contract with a firm from China to deliver all-electric buses. Hopefully, we will see them on the streets of London and Bath in the future.

Local authorities in Scotland have issues, too. To go back to what the hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) said, we have had more than 2,000 deaths from air pollution in Scotland. That is not good enough; it is not acceptable. I wholeheartedly go along with everything that is going forward. We need a local strategy and we need to take local people and communities with us, but we have to be mindful of how it will impact on businesses, town centres and city centres.

A Dundee taxi operator has the UK’s largest electric taxi fleet, with 40 such vehicles. The University of Dundee— I do not know why I am going on about Dundee; I am from Falkirk, so I will probably get a row about that when I get home—has got seven electric vans and is rolling out 12 electric bikes. It aims to reduce its CO₂ emissions by 9 tonnes, which will save £10,000 a year. Those are all good, practical steps towards lowering emissions. I think the whole country should work towards the national strategy. In Scotland, we are working towards it as fast as we can.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman referred to electric cars. Interestingly, during the May election, one of the things that people said on the doorstep—and, indeed, on the day of the election—was that they wanted to commit to driving electric cars. Many people wish to make that move. I certainly see that in my constituency. We have installed our first few electric power points in the town of Newtownards, which is a magnificent step in the right direction, so things are moving forward. Does the hon. Gentleman feel that the time has come for the Government to harness the energy of our constituents who want to see this happen?

[John Mc Nally]

I totally agree that we need to harness that energy. In fact, in an earlier debate today we spoke about the need to store renewable electric energy and to produce it when it is required. I do not yet fully understand the Chancellor’s autumn statement—once I have read into it, I will—but I believe he said that he is going to put more money towards renewable energy. Perhaps the Minister can enlighten me on that point.

People want electric cars. From memory—I have not researched this thoroughly—most people travel less than 30 miles a day in and around their own areas. The majority of people do not travel long distances. Therefore, to go back to the point made by the hon. Member for Strangford, having electric charging points in town centres would be great. When we build infrastructure, new shopping centres, schools or hospitals, we should put electric charging points into the construction plan whenever those things are built; it should be like ensuring disability access. That makes absolute sense to me.

I totally agree with what is going on. I am glad I have come along to represent the Scottish National party, and I am happy to share my knowledge at any time in the future. I thank the hon. Members for Bath and for York Central.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rory Stewart]

My right hon. Friend makes a powerful point and one we will have to think about. We have to get the balance with simplicity right, and that is what we are trying to achieve. The request made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bath for a straightforward, simple system was a good one. The objective is for an HGV driver to know that the same rules apply throughout England or, ideally, if we can work with the devolved Administrations, throughout the United Kingdom, so that we do not have different rules in different places. Provided we can achieve simplicity and a national standard, however, I can see a good argument for excluding historic vehicles. In essence, because the low emission zones would be standard, provided that HGV drivers had a Euro 6 diesel engine in their lorry, for example, they would know that they could enter any of the zones anywhere in the country, as such vehicles would be exempt. We do not want to end up with a situation in which any individual business has no idea what is happening when it turns up somewhere.

We have made some progress since the 1970s. The hon. Member for Strangford reminded us about the problems of smog, which were much worse. In the late 1940s, some incidents cost thousands of lives over two or three days. Since then, we have reduced sulphur dioxide by a dramatic 90%, which was an extraordinary achievement, particulate matter by 73% and the nitrogen oxides, NOx, by 62%, but we can still do better and we have a huge opportunity to do so. The Government have put £2 billion into that.

The real game in town is to ensure not only that by 2020 or 2025 we meet the targets, but that by 2050 we are in the lead and that, with the exception of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire and his exotic car, we are predominantly driving electric vehicles. We can see the direction in which we are going: Britain should be in the industrial lead, and we should be the country where such vehicles are manufactured and tested.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. In my contribution, I mentioned the example of what Berlin had done. I am sure he is coming to it, but I was hoping to hear his thoughts on that.

[Rory Stewart]

The Berlin model is interesting in a couple of ways. First, it has had a good result; the system was put in quite early. Secondly, it was done without cameras. The German system is simply to say, “You will not drive into the centre of Berlin if you have less than a”—I cannot remember exactly what the rules are, but people must have in their vehicles something along the lines of a better than Euro 4 petrol engine or a better than Euro 6 diesel engine. However, there are no cameras to monitor licence plates. The German citizen appears to be so law-abiding that the system relies simply on the police to turn up and inspect the tax disc.

Our assumption is that we would do better to follow the London example of having cameras to recognise people’s number plates, rather than relying on that German system, which is nevertheless an example of how Berlin achieved something pretty remarkable at a very low cost. It did not have to put up any camera infrastructure, or do anything at all; the authorities simply told people not to drive in with certain vehicles and, in essence, that was that.