Oral Answers to Questions

Gavin Williamson Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of his Department’s policies on protecting the UK from cyber-attack.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Gavin Williamson)]

We take the cyber-threat very seriously. We are strengthening our defences against increasingly sophisticated attacks. Our approach to cyber-defence includes a wide range of technical, operational and administrative measures, as well as close co-operation with the National Cyber Security Centre. Indeed, this week we are opening a dedicated state-of-the-art cyber-defence school at the Defence Academy in Shrivenham to enhance the cyber- skills of our defence personnel.

[Jim Shannon]

With the National Cyber Security Centre recording 34 C2 attacks and 762 slightly less serious C3 attacks, will the Secretary of State outline the steps his Department is taking to shore up our defences as best as humanly possible against an attack that some watchdogs have described as “imminent” in the light of rising Russian aggression?

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight this increasing threat, which is why we have set out plans to spend £1.9 billion over a five-year period on making sure that our cyber-defence is right and that we develop the capabilities not just to defend against attacks but to be able to operationalise this ourselves.

[Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)]

Britain’s forces are a major part of the enhanced forward presence in the Baltic states. At a recent meeting of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, we heard of some of the malign attacks on those forces, particularly on the German deployment in Lithuania. I am not asking my right hon. Friend to give me any great detail, because that is necessarily secret, but can he assure the House that we are learning from every attack and that we are training people, down to quite a low level, to make sure that our forces are best equipped to deal with this?

[Gavin Williamson]

That is a very important point, because it is not just about the work that we do centrally; it is about training our forces to best understand the threats to which they will potentially be exposed as they operate in sometimes increasingly hostile fields. We have done that for all troops engaged in NATO operations, and more globally.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Local authorities can be vulnerable to cyber-attacks. One in four councils, including East Dunbartonshire, have experienced cyber-security incidents, yet many do not even provide mandatory training in cyber-security. What discussions has the Secretary of State had with colleagues in the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, and indeed with the devolved Administrations, to make sure our local authorities do not become a soft target for cyber-attack?

[Gavin Williamson]

Part of the reason why we set up the National Cyber Security Centre was to make sure that all elements of government are working together to tackle this issue. I will take up the hon. Lady’s point with the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government to highlight the threats and challenges that local government faces.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Young men and women traditionally joined Her Majesty’s armed forces, in large part, because of the physical challenge and the desire for combat experience. Should we not increasingly be recruiting young men and women because of their digital and IT proficiency, so that we can develop an elite cadre of cyber-specialists?

[Gavin Williamson]

As we face new challenges, we have to be realistic that we need a whole different range of skills—not just the traditional skills that have been the backbone of our armed forces, but new skills—and we are looking at how we can best recruit those skills into our armed forces, and not just into the regulars but also into the reserves to boot.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Surely the Secretary of State knows that what Mr Putin announced a few days ago is basically a new cold war, and it is not just cyber-warfare but every kind of warfare. At a time when Europe seems to be fragmenting, our commitment to NATO is deeply hurt by Donald Trump moving into a new phase of withdrawal. What are we going to do about all this?

[Gavin Williamson]

Putin has made it quite clear that he has hostile intent towards this country, and we have been seeing the build-up of his forces across the eastern front. Given what they have been doing over many years, we have to wake up to that threat and respond to it. Not just through nuclear weapons—although our continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent is absolutely integral to maintaining the peace—but through conventional armed forces, we have to match what Putin is doing with his Russian forces. We have to be aware of the challenges we face, which is very much why we are engaging in the modernising defence programme to ensure that we can match the Russians.

[Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South) (Con)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with his counterpart in the US Administration on strengthening defence co-operation.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

7. What recent discussions he has had with his counterpart in the US Administration on strengthening defence co-operation; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Gavin Williamson)]

The US and UK enjoy a strategic global partnership, which was forged through shared values and the belief in freedom and the rule of law and order, and reinforced by mutual history, partnership and military co-operation. UK-US defence co-operation is today the broadest, deepest and most advanced of any two countries. Our collaboration extends across the full spectrum of defence, including operations and flagship capability programmes. Our troops have fought alongside each other for more than 100 years, and 2018 will be another busy year.

[Ross Thomson]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. Currently, the UK’s defence trade partnership with the US is worth more than $3 billion and includes collaboration on projects such as the F-35 programme, as well as a common compartment for UK-US ballistic missile submarines. Does he agree that with the UK regaining its ability to strike free trade deals across the globe post Brexit, we have the opportunity to deepen the bonds of our special relationship with the US when it comes to our national defence interests?

[Gavin Williamson]

We are already one of the world-leading countries in defence exports, and we have to seize the opportunity that exiting the European Union provides to expand our ability to export right around the world, making sure it is absolutely clear that Britain is a world leader in technology and science. So much of what we have historically done with the US we can do more and more right around the globe.

[Michael Fabricant]

May I implore my right hon. Friend not to listen to the Trump-bashing from Opposition Members? There is absolutely no indication that President Trump is attenuating his commitment to NATO. Furthermore, NATO, not the European Union, is the backbone of this nation’s defence, and my right hon. Friend should be—I know that he is—going out there to Washington and speaking to his counterparts. Will he talk about precisely what he has achieved? [Interruption.] Sorry about that.

[Gavin Williamson]

I thought my hon. Friend was incredibly eloquent.

Let us be clear that there is one reason why we have had peace right across the continent of Europe since the second world war: NATO, and the fact that it has acted as a deterrent to those who wish to prosecute aggressive campaigns against the west. I am very proud of the work that has been done, and will be done in the future, with our allies.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State tell me what the pound-dollar rate was at the time of the commissioning of the F-35 programme, what it is now and how much extra taxpayers’ money is being paid as a result?

[Gavin Williamson]

I am afraid I not have details of the exchange rates with me, but I will write to the right hon. Gentleman with them. I can tell him that exchange rate changes over the past few years have cost us about a quarter of a billion pounds extra for the defence budget, as a result of the movement of the pound.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The US nuclear posture review was met with an equal level of posturing by President Putin during his state of the nation speech last Thursday. What is the British Government’s policy response to these worrying developments, as the world slides needlessly into a second cold war? Does the Secretary of State believe the British Government have a role to play in trying to de-escalate the situation?

[Gavin Williamson]

Let us be really clear: President Putin has been developing a much more hostile and aggressive posture towards the UK, the US and our allies for an awful lot longer than the past 12 months. Russia wants to assert its rights. We have seen increased Russian activity in the north Atlantic—a tenfold increase over the past few years. Do we sit submissively by and just accept that President Putin can do whatever he wishes to do? Or do we have to look at how we respond, making it clear that we are willing to stand up to bullying and the fact that nations are being subjected to attacks by Russia? We need to deal with that, and that is what we will do. That is why I am proud that we have the continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent.

[Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend inform the House about what discussions he has with his US counterpart, so that we can work together to ensure that our other NATO allies pay the 2% of GDP that they should be paying towards our collective defence?

[Gavin Williamson]

In this country, I am very proud that we are able to say that we spend 2% of GDP on defence. But we cannot outsource Europe’s defence to the United States: every European country has to play its part in defending Europe. That means spending the money required to defend the borders of western Europe.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

I begin by paying tribute to the members of the armed forces who helped their country get moving, inasmuch as it could, over the past week.

How confident can the Secretary of State, his US counterpart or indeed any NATO counterpart be that we can bring to the table what we say we can bring, given that there is a £20 billion funding gap in his Department’s equipment plan?

[Gavin Williamson]

We are looking at exactly what resources and everything else we need going forward. We carry considerable contingencies in our equipment plan, and we are very confident that we will be able to deliver everything we need for our armed forces.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

I am afraid that that is a bit of a “head still in the sand” answer. The National Audit Office said that projects will have to be delayed, scaled back or cancelled. Will the Secretary of State ensure that no project in Scotland will be delayed, scaled back or cancelled?

[Gavin Williamson]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware that we are doing the modernising defence programme. He will also be pleased to hear that we will open up our public consultation as part of that programme. We are going to be looking at all we do—how best we can use our armed forces to deliver for the whole United Kingdom, and how to make sure that we are best protected against the threats from abroad. I look forward to the hon. Gentleman’s contribution to that.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

3. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of the size of the Royal Navy fleet.

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[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

Q5. What recent assessment he has made of the preparedness of the armed forces to adapt to new and changing strategic threats.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Gavin Williamson)]

Our armed forces are among the very best in the world. Through the modernising defence programme, we will assess the ever-changing threats that this country faces and understand what we can do to make them ever more effective at keeping us safe today and into the future.

[Tony Lloyd]

The Defence Secretary will recognise, given his earlier answers, that the threats that we face—both conventional and from new forms of technology—are massive and varied, and come not simply from Russia, but from many different sources. In that context, he talks about a fiscally non-neutral defence review. Will he tell us whether the Chancellor has agreed to sign up to that process?

[Gavin Williamson]

When the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and I met and agreed the terms of reference of the modernising defence programme, we were absolutely clear that it was not to be fiscally neutral. We were to understand what the threats were and understand the capabilities that were needed, and make sure that the Ministry of Defence leads a study to ensure that we are best equipped to deal with those threats.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend update the House on what progress has been made on the modernising defence review, so that we can implement what is needed to ensure the defence of the realm?

[Gavin Williamson]

I assure my hon. Friend that we are making good progress. As I said earlier, we are opening this up to public consultation. We are very eager to report back to the House as quickly as possible, and we hope that that can be done by June or July, before the NATO summit.

[Nia Griffith]

We have seen in this past week how our armed forces rise to the challenge in any weather, but despite our increased commitment to the Baltic states, cuts to training have left the Royal Marines with fewer opportunities to develop their cold weather warfare skills. In January, the Minister for the Armed Forces said of cuts to training exercises in Norway:

“I am confident that that was a one-off in-year saving.”

Can the Secretary of State confirm that training will return to normal levels this year?

[Gavin Williamson]

We have already had 500 Royal Marines training out in Norway this year, and we look forward to continuing that collaboration going forward. It is absolutely right to say that our armed forces are always ready to serve, and when things are difficult, it is our armed forces who always step up to the plate.

[Julia Lopez (Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con)]

6. What recent discussions he has had with his European and US counterparts on maintaining defence co-operation between the EU and NATO.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Gavin Williamson)]

I was trying to offload various questions on to my ministerial colleagues, Mr Speaker. Sadly, they were not willing to take them. [Interruption.] God loves a trier.

I have regular conversations with my European and US counterparts on maintaining defence co-operation between the European Union and NATO. EU-NATO co-operation is key to combating the breadth of challenges we face, and the institutions must work together in a way that is complementary and prevents duplication. The UK will continue to support better working between the EU and NATO while we remain in the EU and after we leave.

[Julia Lopez]

I thank the Secretary of State for taking my question. Following the recent signing of the permanent structured co-operation pact between 25 EU nations, what role does he envisage for the UK after Brexit in ensuring that the EU’s future defence co-operation plans enhance NATO rather than detract from it?

[Gavin Williamson]

There have always been traditional tensions within the European Union as to which way it would like to take its role in defence. We want to work with our European Union partners. We must not forget, however, that 80% of NATO’s defence is provided by countries outside the European Union. We should not see leaving the European Union as a step towards making the continent of Europe less safe. Indeed, it is fair to say that in the decades before the European Union was invented, NATO was already keeping the continent safe, incredibly successfully. We want to have the opportunity to work closely with our European Union partners, but equally we want to make sure that that does not detract from the amazing work that NATO does.

[Martin Whitfield (East Lothian) (Lab)]

The European Defence Agency does not envisage third-party countries joining, so is that one of the agencies that the Government will be seeking an administrative arrangement with?

[Gavin Williamson]

We are very happy to discuss how best we can work with our European partners, but we do not want to do anything that diminishes what we agreed to on 23 June 2016, which is exiting the European Union. If we can work in a pragmatic way with European partners, that is good, but let us not forget that most of what we do in, say, equipment programmes is done through bilateral relationships, not through the European Union.

[Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)]

8. What steps he is taking to encourage more organisations to participate in the armed forces covenant.

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[Mr Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con)]

10. What recent discussions he has had with his international counterparts on NATO modernisation.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Gavin Williamson)]

At last month’s NATO defence ministerial, we discussed NATO modernisation. This is a UK priority, and my ambition is for a modern NATO, fit to face the new global challenges and delivering against its commitments. We will take further decisions to modernise the alliance when Defence Ministers next meet in June and at the next NATO summit in Brussels in July.

[Mr Fysh]

UK defence equipment manufacturers can bolt on to EU defence programmes. For example, with its unmanned systems project with the MOD, Leonardo in Yeovil is well placed to help Leonardo in Italy with its recently awarded EU defence project in multinational unmanned systems integration. Can my right hon. Friend assure us that such co-operation will happen without the UK submitting to EU defence operational and equipment investment governance that may risk undermining NATO?

[Gavin Williamson]

Yes, I can.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of the effect of the delayed pay increase on retention in the armed forces.

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[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Gavin Williamson)]

I thank our armed forces for doing an incredible job to support those affected by the recent treacherous weather across the United Kingdom. From Devon to Scotland, 328 service personnel, 124 vehicles and a Chinook helicopter, which is currently operating in Cumbria, have transported staff delivering critical care and services to and from hospitals, delivered medicines to vulnerable people in the community and assisted police in evacuating members of the public stranded in vehicles. My Department and the armed forces stand ready to assist with any further calls for support.

[Dr Johnson]

I would like to put on record my thanks to the armed forces who came out in Lincolnshire over the past few days to support us.

The physical fitness of our servicemen and servicewomen is extremely important, yet sports facilities at RAF Cranwell, used by the military and local communities alike, are currently in a poor state of repair. I have received correspondence from constituents with particular regard to the lights for the astroturf. Will my right hon. Friend confirm when they will be repaired, and will he ask the Minister responsible for the Defence Infrastructure Organisation to come and see for himself the fitness training and other facilities at RAF Cranwell that require repair?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I gently remind colleagues that topical questions must be shorter. Forgive me. I am sure it was a very good question, but if people are going to have a script it needs to be much shorter. We have a lot to get through.

[Gavin Williamson]

I can absolutely promise that the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) is going to visit and take part in the assault course. Let me make it clear to Hansard that we are talking about my right hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East doing the assault course, not the right hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Gavin Williamson).

[Mr Speaker]

I am sure that is very reassuring to the nation.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

T2. After the Secretary of State’s statement that terrorists cannot harm us and his ministry was forced to admit that its drone policy was misleading and erroneously drafted, will the Secretary of State tell the House whether it is the policy of the UK Government to kill people outside warzones?

[Gavin Williamson]

Our Department and our armed forces always operate within the letter of UK and international law. Do our armed forces step up to keep our country safe from terrorist threats? Yes they do, and they will continue to do so. I am very proud of the amazing work they do to keep this country safe. I hope the right hon. Gentleman is also proud.

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

T6. Will my right hon. Friend congratulate the British Army for all the work it has done, in conjunction with the Malawi Government, to protect elephants in Malawi? The ivory trade has seen a reduction in the number of elephants from 4,000 10 years ago to 2,000 now. Something must be done and thankfully the British Army is helping.

[Gavin Williamson]

Our armed forces play an incredibly important role in training rangers to stop the vile trade of ivory poaching. I am very pleased that we have been able to extend the scheme and continue the amazing work with Governments across Africa to ensure that majestic animals such as elephants are protected.

[Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab)]

T3. Uniformed cadets, like 241 Squadron air cadets in my constituency, do an amazing job of producing well-rounded, empowered young people. I invite the Minister to look at the funding provided across government to our uniformed cadets, which clearly offer much better value for money than some other Government-funded youth programmes.

[Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)]

T7. I look forward to hearing the details this week of the new scheme offering £40,000-worth of bursaries to military veterans to retrain as teachers. Does the Minister agree that focusing on priority subjects is another example of how we are trying to plug the STEM skills gap?

[Gavin Williamson]

We have the most amazing resource in the armed forces—our people—and we want to give them the very best opportunities as they leave the armed forces. The bursary scheme offering up to £40,000 for them to train as teachers is a great opportunity. Our armed forces often have some amazing technical expertise that they will be able to bring straight to schools to benefit future generations.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

T4. Under “A Better Defence Estate,” the Secretary of State plans to close the state-of-the-art medical facilities in York and the upgraded First Division headquarters. Can he say how much this is costing the taxpayer?

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[Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the further set of defence commitments reached by the Prime Minister and President Macron at the summit in January represents not just the deepening of this important bilateral relationship, but a strengthening of NATO?

[Gavin Williamson]

The co-operation that our country has with France is second to none. The Anglo-French summit signposts an important development in that relationship—not just in terms of operations going forward, but about how best we can collaborate in terms of our defence industries.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T8. How well is the latest Army recruitment campaign going?

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[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend pay tribute to UK peacekeepers in South Sudan and elsewhere across the world?

[Gavin Williamson]

I would very much like to pay tribute to the amazing peacekeeping work that our armed forces do in so many areas, South Sudan being a perfect example. It goes to show what an amazing impact our armed forces have in projecting Britain’s influence in all parts of the globe.

[Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Secretary of State carried out of the preparedness of our armed forces for any expansion in the Syrian war, given the proxy conflict between Russia and America in that zone?

[Gavin Williamson]

Conservative Members have always recognised the importance of being fully engaged in what is happening in Syria and Iraq, and we will continue to look at that exceptionally closely. I am incredibly honoured that our armed forces are playing a vital role in degrading the Daesh terror cult, and that is what we will continue to do going forward.

[Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)]

What assessment have Ministers made of the contribution of defence to UK plc in protecting the trade that forms such an important part of our economy?

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[Gavin Williamson]

We are looking at how to reduce the effect of the Scottish Government’s nat tax on all our service personnel. Some 70% of service personnel serving in Scotland are seeing their pay reduced because of the Scottish Government’s actions; we need to look at how to deal with that.