Heathrow Airport Expansion: Elmbridge

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the effect of Heathrow airport expansion on Elmbridge.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Nuttall, and I am grateful that the Minister has taken the time to be here. This issue is very important for my local constituency, with the publication last month of the Government’s draft national policy statement on Heathrow. I will take this opportunity to speak about the impact of the proposed airport expansion on my constituency.

I should say at the outset that I live under one of the flightpaths, so I appreciate at first hand the issues that raises. Constituents who live in neighbourhoods in certain parts of the constituency particularly feel the impact, especially those in Molesey and parts of Walton-on-Thames. It is true that the impact is felt variably in different parts of the constituency. Residents in those communities are especially concerned about the current operations in and out of Heathrow and, naturally, the implications that a third runway might have on their quality of life. I will set out some of those concerns, and I would be grateful if the Minister addressed as many of them as possible. However, given the number of questions I have and the time available, I gently and respectfully suggest that he takes the opportunity to follow up the debate with a letter, if he feels unable to address any points of detail today. I hope that is a reasonable request.

I support the expansion of Heathrow airport in principle because I recognise its importance for the future competitiveness of the UK economy. Ideally, I would have preferred both Heathrow and Gatwick to be expanded, partly because of the economic case, but also to spread some of the impact. Nevertheless, I recognise that the economic case for expanding Heathrow is strong, both nationally and locally. Heathrow airport directly employs 1,000 residents in Elmbridge. An expanded Heathrow would not only guarantee those jobs, but create more local employment opportunities. It is welcome that, as part of the expansion plans, Heathrow has promised to create 5,000 new apprenticeships around the airport, which will create additional skilled employment opportunities for the communities that will benefit from that.

The Airports Commission estimated that the third runway expansion will create 77,000 jobs in the local area by 2030. In that local context, will the Minister set out what private and public sector measures he anticipates will be taken to improve transport links to support the increased footfall through Heathrow? Will he explain how local road and rail infrastructure will be reinforced to cope with the estimated additional capacity? Surrey and Elmbridge, in particular, are already under strain and we need to know in advance how we will deal with any additional congestion.

Beyond the local economic benefits, the longer-term boost to the UK economy and our international competitiveness that will accompany expansion is also highly persuasive. The Airports Commission estimated that the third runway will deliver a £61 billion boost to the British economy. In particular, it will increase connections to the fastest-growing markets in the world, improve our domestic connectivity and greatly expand our capacity for international trade. That is vital for our future prosperity, so expanding Heathrow offers the clearest signals that Britain is open for business, open to the world and, as the Prime Minister vowed, intent on becoming a global leader in free trade.

That is the economic good news, but I also hope that if expansion is delivered properly and carefully—with all the assiduous care that the Minister is well regarded and reputed for—it can also improve the wellbeing of Elmbridge residents, particularly those of us who have to live with the constant noise overhead. On a personal note, as a constituency MP I have been contacted by hundreds upon hundreds of concerned residents. I have hosted a range of public meetings, particularly in Molesey, where there is enormous frustration and concern. I should say that that goes beyond the understandable irritation of middle-class residents who prize a peaceful suburban life.

Let me give an illustration of what that can mean—this example is particularly troubling. At one surgery a constituent came to me whose sleep is so disrupted that he suffers from anxiety attacks, and who eventually even lost his job. We are not talking about dealing with tolerable levels of noise—levels that people can or should reasonably be expected to endure. Many are fearful, not just based on current practice, of what expansion will bring.

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

I share a constituency border with my hon. Friend. He will know that there is not a flightpath on the border, but residents are disturbed by stacking. Does he understand the concerns felt by people at the other end of my constituency—in Kingston and New Malden—about the prospect of a whole new flightpath, where there is not one already, and the disturbance that will cause?

[Mr Raab]

As ever, my hon. Friend is a doughty champion for his constituents. The stacking issue is very important. I raised it in the Chamber on 2 February and, as he will know, the Transport Secretary gave me a clear set of assurances; I will ask a few questions about the detail of that later. As ever, my hon. Friend is absolutely bang on point. For me, the important thing is that those affected know what they can reasonably expect once a third runway is open for business. That will not only provide residents with a reasonable level of expectation, but mean that they know how to hold Heathrow and the Government to account for the assurances that are being offered, particularly on noise and air quality.

When the draft policy statement was published on 2 February, the Transport Secretary reassured me in the Chamber that there would be binding limits on noise and air quality, independent verification of both, a change of policy away from concentrated flightpaths and changes to the current stacking of flights, which my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (James Berry) mentioned. Those high-level assurances were warmly received by my constituents and by the communities as a whole, so I thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for those. My critical task now, as the constituency MP, is to follow up those high-level assurances and nail down what the specifics will mean in practice and what the tangible impact will be for people living in Elmbridge. That is why I secured this debate. Although we might not get all the answers today, I hope that the Minister will consider this to be the start of a fruitful dialogue over the months ahead.

As a condition for expansion, we have the Government’s commitment to enforce new and legally binding noise targets on Heathrow. The Government also propose the creation of an independent body to monitor noise levels. I sought that in previous correspondence with the Ministers, so it is very welcome. It helps to build confidence that those high-level assurances will materialise at a more tangible level.

The independent commission on civil aviation noise—ICCAN—will be set up within the Civil Aviation Authority. That should allow it to become operational quickly and enable it to benefit from the expertise of its parent institution. The creation of the body can help reassure my residents, who have had their trust in the airport rather dented by the 2014 flightpath trials and Heathrow’s inability to monitor accurately the volume or trajectory of local flights. I say that notwithstanding my intense engagement with Heathrow at a very high level and its desire to get this right for the local community. However, I suspect that this has clearly not worked to the satisfaction of Heathrow, and certainly not to that of my constituents, so we need to take that forward.

ICCAN’s credibility will be critical to achieving its objective of holding the airport to account on aircraft noise. I am also reassured that one of its key principles is to help to build up community engagement and understanding. However, it would be useful to get greater clarity and detail on the legally binding noise performance targets. A legally binding noise envelope would be better still, so I urge Transport Ministers to consider that approach, which could allow a reduction in stipulated noise levels over time. What statutory role will ICCAN have in monitoring noise levels, and what penalties will it be able to impose on the airport if noise targets are not met? My constituents will expect an effective verification mechanism in which ICCAN is more than just an advisory body and in which it has teeth to ensure compliance.

I must also raise the plans for future flightpaths around the expanded airport. There is a clear opportunity to shift away from the rather arbitrary and unfair current policy of concentrated flightpaths and towards a policy of dispersal over a wider geographical area. I have looked at this issue, thought about it and talked to my community about it, and I always come back to the conclusion that it is wrong for a small but significant minority of residents to bear so disproportionately the brunt of flights overhead. The case for a more equitable dispersal is overwhelming.

The Government are committed to lowering the overall noise impact, so we should see a reduction of it in Elmbridge. In fact, the Airports Commission concluded that by 2030 fewer people would be affected by noise than at present, because the greater flexibility that additional airport capacity will permit in aircraft operations should allow better management of overall noise impacts. I ask the Minister when he will commit to a policy of dispersal and what that will mean for Elmbridge residents in practical terms.

When I raised noise levels with the Transport Secretary in the Chamber on 2 February, he indicated that the forthcoming changes to the stacking arrangements south-west of London for Heathrow would improve the experience for my local residents. That was a hugely welcome and important positive assurance to take back to my constituents. I would be grateful if the Minister gave us further details on what those changes will be—or, at least, when we will know what they will be—and how they will reduce noise levels for my constituents.

I would like to move beyond noise levels to the important issue of air quality. I am assured by the Civil Aviation Authority that an increase in flights would have no direct impact on air quality in Elmbridge. That is welcome news, but how will that assurance be achieved? What limits on air quality will be put in place to deliver it and how will they be independently verified?

There are also concerns about the indirect effects of the expansion and the third runway on air quality. In particular, the increase in road traffic caused by a growth in the number of passengers travelling to and from the airport risks a negative impact on local air pollution. I note that Heathrow has committed to ensuring that there is no increase in road usage related to the airport and the expansion, and to expanding public transport to mitigate the extra road use. That will be important for reducing the airport’s carbon footprint and ensuring that our existing road network is not put under undue strain from an even greater volume of traffic, as I mentioned earlier.

However, it is vital that there is proper independent verification of that rather high-level and, if I may say so, abstract commitment. Unless the Government have a better means of achieving that—I am open-minded about the means—I suggest, as one possibility, that the Environment Agency be mandated and resourced to monitor the full environmental impact of the expanded airport, including from the additional volume of traffic in surrounding areas such as mine.

[James Berry]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech on behalf of his constituents. Does he agree that the likelihood of a family of four with all their bags using public transport instead of a family car or taxi is minimal, unless there is a massive increase in the quality of public transport in both our constituencies?

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point in his habitually eloquent and convincing way. If the commitment is to be met, there will need to be a step change in investment in the means of getting people out of their cars. We both live in our constituencies and we know what the traffic is like, particularly around peak times and rush hour. If the commitment is not met, I fear that traffic will come to a standstill. We have to avoid that. That high-level commitment has been made, and I am interested to know what the means of achieving it will be.

As I said, I would like to see the Environment Agency or another body mandated to monitor the full environmental impact of the airport, and not just from the extra flights overhead, but from the additional congestion. That is an aspect of the Heathrow air quality debate that I do not think has been fully addressed in the draft national policy statement. I would be grateful if the Minister at least sought to address it today and if he assured my residents that Heathrow will be held to its promise that expansion will lead to no increase in local road traffic.

The assurances that I seek today, or something equivalent, are sorely needed for the people and communities living in the vicinity of Heathrow. I am certainly not trying to stop or scupper the expansion; I want to work with Heathrow. I pay tribute to its director of external affairs, Nigel Milton, who has been absolutely terrific at engaging. I welcome the positive assurances that I have had from the Transport Secretary and other Ministers. The assurances that I seek on behalf of my community are reasonable and proportionate, and they will be necessary if we are to carry local communities with us as we proceed with this major and vital infrastructure project. With that in mind, I must say that it is regrettable that the Government’s local consultations will not include a public meeting in my constituency, given the problems that we had with the flightpath trials in 2014. I respectfully but firmly urge the Minister to take that point away and to think about the impression created in communities such as mine that already feel that their concerns have not been properly taken on board.

In summary, before I can credibly vote for the expansion of Heathrow, which I am well disposed to do because I support it as a matter of principle, I need to be able to give my constituents a more detailed and concrete reassurance, based on the Government’s proposed mitigation package, that the roads in Elmbridge will not be clogged up; that noise levels will be limited and independently monitored; that we will move towards dispersal of flightpaths and overhaul the current stacking arrangements or find equivalent means to reduce residents’ experience of the disproportionate noise levels currently felt in places such as Molesey and Walton; and that local air quality will not deteriorate as a result of the extra flights or the extra vehicles that may grace our roads, because there will be prescribed and independently monitored limits to ensure that that does not happen. Those are reasonable, common-sense assurances that I seek on behalf of reasonable constituents with common sense who have constructively expressed their reservations and concerns. The sooner the Government can provide the detail that I seek, the sooner we can provide the answers to my constituents in Elmbridge and give them the reassurances that they need to get behind the expansion of Heathrow airport.

Airport Capacity and Airspace Policy

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Lady makes two points. On connectivity, the plans for improved rail access around Heathrow will completely transform it as an integrated hub. The connectivity that HS2 will bring to Old Oak Common, Crossrail, the expanded Piccadilly line and the connectivity that south-west rail access will bring into Heathrow itself will mean it is much more of an accessible integrated transport centre than it has been, and there will be regional connectivity as well.

On pollution, as I have said, we had detailed analysis from the Airports Commission and, since then, from independent consultants. The Government’s judgment is that this expansion is deliverable within air quality rules but, as I have just said, we have a big task in this country to address the much broader issue of air quality. We cannot simply sit with the status quo until the middle of the next decade when this runway opens; we need to have made a big impact before then.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

I welcome the Transport Secretary’s statement. For my constituents in Esher and Walton, it will be absolutely critical to have tangible reassurances, including on legally binding limits for noise and air quality, the independent verification of both of those things, and a change of policy on flight paths from the arbitrary policy of concentration, which blights communities such as Molesey in my constituency, to a fairer policy of dispersal. Will the Transport Secretary guarantee to work with me to nail down those local reassurances for my constituents?

[Chris Grayling]

I am happy to give my hon. Friend those assurances. The thing that we share in particular across our two constituencies is the stack south-west of London. The changes that the airspace consultation heralds will change that fundamentally, leading to much less stacking and fuel wastage over south-east England. As a result, there will be less emissions from the aviation flying over south-east England, and I think that there will be a much better experience for my hon. Friend’s constituents.

National Policy Statement (National Networks)

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Goodwill]

We do have a scheme to take a lot of lorries and freight off the roads and on to rail—it is called High Speed 2—and it will deliver that. We are committed to investing in High Speed 2, to creating capacity on the existing rail network, which is currently blocked up with commuter and inter-city trains, and to getting more freight off the roads and on to rail. Indeed, the interchanges that are part of the NPS will also help to increase rail connectivity.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

I welcome what the NPS says and acknowledges about the need for redevelopment and further development of rail infrastructure, and particularly its emphasis on London and the south-east. In my constituency, South West Trains pays the largest premium to central Government for the right to run the service, but there is a high level of overcrowding and passengers therefore feel that they do not get value for money. When the policy is fleshed out further, will there be a link between the operating companies paying a very high premium to central Government and the provision of a minimum level of service for passengers? They cannot keep paying more and more to get less and less back.

[Mr Goodwill]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. For too long, we have not invested sufficiently in our rail network. When privatisation took place, many people thought that railway travel in this country would be a case of managed decline. As it is, the number of people using trains has doubled since privatisation, and many commuters in the south-east and elsewhere are to some extent paying a price for that. That is why we are committed to investing in better rolling stock. We have a £38 billion investment programme in rail, which is not only for the capital, but for the wider country.

In a nutshell, the NPS provides clarity and certainty in Government policy on the need for nationally significant infrastructure projects. It allows planners to focus on important local considerations at planning inquiries, rather than being drawn into wider discussions about the matters resolved in the NPS. As such, it is a vital tool in delivering the infrastructure investment that is so central to our long-term economic plan.

South West Trains

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

It is an enormous pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea, for what I think is the very first time. I would certainly remember if I had served under you before. May I take this opportunity to welcome the relatively new Minister to her job? I am sure she will bring her characteristic gusto and gumption to the role.

I raised the issue of value for money on South West Trains with the Minister’s predecessor in a similar Westminster Hall debate in March 2013. I have to say with an element of regret that the service is not getting significantly better 18 months on. I say that not only from the clear data available, but as a commuting MP. I stand on the platform with my constituents, directly accountable to them, paying an ever-increasing fare both for the service on the train and for the parking at the station. Together we have experienced the steadily increasing overcrowding of a prime commuter route.

Based on the 2013 data published last month by the Department for Transport, I was not surprised to learn that one particular service that I regularly use—the 7.32 am from Woking to Waterloo—has the largest number of passengers in excess of capacity of any service in the entire country. By the time it arrives at Esher at 7.52 am, it is packed to the gunnels. According to the official data from the Department, it has 540 passengers over the specified maximum capacity limit, amounting to a 73% breach of the ceiling. It is little wonder the Daily Mail has dubbed the service the “sardine express”.

It is not just one train or some extraordinary occurrence. The 7.32 am has consistently appeared in the top 10 overcrowded peak services in recent years. Nor is it a particularly freak time. For example, the 7.02 am service is almost as packed. My experience as a commuter tells me that acute overcrowding is a serious problem for at least half an hour at peak commuter times in the morning. I get on the service at Esher station. I know first hand how rammed the carriages are. Occasionally—I saw it recently—it is sometimes even impossible to get on the train, which has all sorts of implications. It is not only inconvenient, but there are economic costs to businesses and to people in their personal lives. Clearly, the Surrey network feels the pressure of a very high volume of commuters.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. Does he agree that overcrowding is not the only problem? The Minister might be surprised to know that I never get complaints about the quality of the railway in the Gosport peninsula, because we are the largest town in the UK not to have any railway or indeed any station. However, we do get complaints about the Portsmouth service, which is not only overcrowded, but inadequate. It has slow journey times on a 1930s infrastructure, and eye-watering prices.

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend has raised her point with typical cogency and precision. I do not know all the facts of the case of that line, but I am not surprised, given my experience of South West Trains. She is certainly right that overcrowding is not the only problem, and I will come to some of the others. The overarching point, as my commuters tell me, is value for money.

[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important and, it appears, annual debate. He is moving on to an important point. One of my constituents said to me this morning that they would accept consistently increasing prices if the quality of service improved, and concluded by saying, “That is not the case currently.” Does my hon. Friend agree that the nub of the problem is that commuters are paying more for what they see as a worse service?

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend is absolutely bang on. That is the crux of the matter. We have heard interventions already about other parts of the country. I can speak for Elmbridge and for Surrey, but it is interesting to hear that the problems are systematic and not parochial.

Clearly, the Surrey network feels the pressure of a high volume of commuters. In Elmbridge borough alone, some 12 million people use our stations. The number of recorded journeys almost doubled between 2002 and 2010, so demand is high and increasing. Fares will rise by 2.5% again in the new year. The Minister will say that that is not a real-terms increase, so we thank heavens for small mercies, but none the less it is an increase. The fares are already some of the most expensive in Europe. A season ticket for the 25-minute journey from Esher to Waterloo currently costs just under £2,000, and many pay a good deal more.

What is hard to explain, let alone justify, to many passengers—I think my hon. Friends were making this point—is the enormous subsidy that they pay as passengers for other lines across the country. That is largely hidden from view. Of course, redistribution of wealth is a natural function of general taxation—it is the stuff of politics and Parliament to debate how much or how little there should be—but I doubt that many are aware of quite how stark the impact is. Certainly, in my area, Surrey residents contribute £6 billion to the Treasury, and we get back less than £1 billion in services. The point is that, on top of that redistribution of wealth via general taxation, Surrey rail passengers, through their fares, are not just paying high fares for the services that they use. They and many others using South West Trains are paying a whopping subsidy for investment in the rail network across the rest of the country.

In 2013-14, South West Trains passengers paid the Department for Transport the highest premium for their rail service at 5.2p per passenger per kilometre. That compares to the 13.1p subsidy doled out by the Government to Arriva Trains Wales, or the 2.8p subsidy received by London Midland, and the 2.2p subsidy received by Southeastern. Some train companies are therefore paying an inordinate amount for the right to run the service while others are effectively receiving a subsidy.

Over the past four years up to 2013-14, South West Trains passengers have effectively coughed up the largest subsidy to Government coffers of any train operating company, totalling just over £1 billion. That is the scale of the subsidisation of other lines by my commuters and other passengers using South West Trains. That is more than £1 billion over and above what is redistributed via general taxation. It is a staggering amount.

Aside from the scale and the volume or the amount, no one can explain to me how this allocation of premiums and subsidies across the train operators is calculated. I have looked at the franchise contracts for the train operating companies. They do not disclose the information. We are told it is too sensitive, and the Minister’s predecessor could not explain what the allocation or criteria are. It looks arbitrary in terms of the relative wealth of the areas concerned. For example, Southeastern received £97 million in 2013-14 to run the service, compared with South West Trains, which paid £312 million for the right. Will she, if she can, explain in plain language that my constituents can understand how the allocations—the premiums and the subsidies—are worked out? How are they calculated and how are they justified? In particular, how can they be justified given what we have heard about overcrowding, particularly on South West Trains?

I referred to the sardine express earlier, but that is just one service. In 2013, average overcrowding on South West Trains was the joint third highest in London and the south-east. Overcrowding increased in each of the preceding four years. South West Trains services featured three times in the top 10 most overcrowded services across England and Wales for 2012, and twice again in the Department’s spring 2013 data. To put those raw numbers into perspective, EU rules stipulate that calves, adult goats and unshorn sheep must be transported by train in an area of space of at least 0.3 square metres per unit of livestock, but the new Government standard for commissioning commuter services for humans is now 0.25 square metres, which is significantly less. I understand that the only train company operating to that standard is—you guessed it, Dr McCrea—South West Trains. Can the Minister explain why my constituents, who are paying ever-rising fares and doling out more than £1 billion to improve rail services for the rest of the UK that they will rarely use, do so for the privilege of travelling at one grade below cattle class on South West Trains?

The Minister will understand immediately why in Passenger Focus’s 2014 national survey, South West Trains passengers ranked their service the third worst in the country on value for money, with a bare 37% saying that they were getting bang for their buck. That dropped to 28%—barely a quarter—for peak-time passengers. Just in case anyone thinks that all passengers and commuters grumble, that compares with approval on value for money of 78% with Grand Central passengers and 61% with Virgin Trains passengers. It is not beyond the wit of man or woman.

I recognise that South West Trains will argue that it is playing the hand it was dealt by Government in the franchise agreement. That is the line, and there is obviously some truth to it. The Government ultimately decide on the premium or grant, and that very much conditions and influences the nature of the service that can be run and the resources available. That might, however, be a little easier to swallow if director remuneration at Stagecoach Group, which is the operating company, had not doubled between 2010 and 2014, just as these developments were taking place.

Nevertheless, with the fragmented nature of responsibility for rail services, it has got difficult to get straight answers to straight questions. As an MP, I find it difficult to explain to commuters and constituents why the high fares they pay deliver so little in return. My hon. Friends have made that point. What action has been taken to deliver a fairer deal for my constituents and the many others using South West Trains who feel as though they are treated like a cash cow, despite travelling in sub-cattle class conditions?

In particular, what progress has been made on expanding the platforms available at Waterloo into the international terminal that used to service the Eurostar routes? I understand from the managing director of South West Trains that that, at least in the short term, offers the greatest scope for lengthening platforms and trains, thereby easing overcrowding along the lines I have mentioned. Does the Minister agree with that analysis? If so, what is holding up progress in that direction? Will she update me on the options for Crossrail 2? I understand that her officials are looking carefully at the so-called regional option, which would link to the metro option, servicing south-west London, Surrey and Hertfordshire. That would substantially alleviate pressure on existing services, as well as carrying a multitude of other regional benefits. What is her view on the regional option?

Finally, we have been sweating under the franchise agreements signed off by the Labour Government. I have always argued that they bear the responsibility for the framework in which we are operating, but an extension to the South West Trains agreement was agreed in 2013, taking it to March 2019. I am sure the Minister’s Department looked carefully at the terms of the extension. Will she help me explain to my constituents what the premium or subsidy will be between now and 2019? What criteria are being used for that? What are the objective grounds justifying the different rates at which operating companies are being charged or paid?

My constituents have rather stoically endured the immediate frustration of high fares and acute overcrowding. We all know the financial situation the country faces, and that rising demand for rail services will continue for a range of demographic, economic and environmental reasons, but the raw truth is that, when I stand on that platform with my fellow constituents and take the sardine express up to Waterloo, I need to be able to explain in clear language how we will address over the long term the conditions of travel, which are often cramped and uncomfortable. I need to explain how we are going to deliver better value for money. I need to give them some light at the end of the tunnel. I hope the Minister can provide me with a degree of reassurance today.

[Dr William McCrea (in the Chair)]

I call the Minister to give a first-class carriage answer.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Perry]

As always, my hon. Friend hits the nail on the head. I have travelled that route, visiting one of her neighbouring constituencies, and I was struck by the pace at which some of those trains travel.

To return to the particular service mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton, the 7.32 train from Woking to Waterloo is, I think, the second most crowded passenger journey in the UK. I have been on that journey. I am in the process of mystery shopping the top 10 most crowded routes to see for myself what they are like. On that particular day, the operating company took four carriages out of the service for operational reasons, because of problems the day before. That meant that we were leaving passengers at the station pretty much all the way along the line.

It is incredibly important that the Government tackle these issues and deliver value for money in the eyes of passengers. My hon. Friends have alluded to that. The good news is that the Government recognise that. For the first time in a generation, we are reinvesting real money in the railways, with £38 billion being spent over this capital period to the end of 2019. That is the biggest investment in rail and rolling stock since Victorian times.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton pointed out, the franchise that we are debating was, like so many others, let under a previous Administration who thought that electrifying nine miles of track in 13 years was good enough. The franchises were let with no provision for growth and investment, which resulted in a huge squeeze for passengers. One of the things I am very proud of is that the Chancellor has for the second year delivered a real-terms freeze on fares, as well as scrapping the flex that enabled companies to put up their prices outside the regulated boundary willy-nilly. This Government understand value for money, unlike the previous Government.

The challenge that my hon. Friend outlined is how to pay for the investment, which gets to his point about subsidy versus premiums across the network. He does the analysis, as I do, so he knows that there are two ways to pay for investment in the railway: general taxation and a contribution from those using the railway. Only about 8% of commuters use the railway to get to work; twice as many take the bus and many more still walk, cycle or take their cars. Taxpayers of course contribute substantially to investment in railways through general taxation. In some cases, passengers contribute as well. Taxpayers and fare payers are often the same people, so they are right to feel aggrieved, particularly when their services are not running.

In general, the challenge as to which franchises are in receipt of subsidy and which are generating premiums is an operational negotiation at the time of letting the franchise and as patterns change as services unfold. Overall, however, the McNulty review found substantial operating costs right across the railways—far more than our European comparators—that need to be driven out, which we are working hard with Network Rail and the operating companies to achieve.

My hon. Friends each hit the nail on the head. Passengers often do not feel that they are getting value for money. They travel on slow, crowded trains and cannot understand why timetables get messed up and why the network’s resilience can fail if there is a fatality or some operational problem. All my hon. Friends will be delighted to hear that part of the £38 billion investment commitment is being spent on the South West Trains network. Just a few weeks ago, I was on the platform at Waterloo with South West Trains and its Network Rail alliance colleagues, Siemens and Angel Trains, to announce that 150 new vehicles are currently being made to be put into use on the franchise by the start of 2018. The introduction of the new trains will lead to the cascading of existing fleets, generating enough seats for 24,000 additional peak-time passengers. That is in addition to the carriages that are starting to arrive now which will also deliver additional seats.

My hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton made an interesting comparison with the rules for movement of livestock versus the space available for people. He and I have seen how crowded trains can be. It is not like being on a tube train, with another coming along behind. People are being made late for work if they cannot board their train. Part of calculating overcrowding is based on duration of journey. There is a strong expectation that nobody travelling for more than 20 minutes should be standing beyond that point. It is not always achieved, but that is the sort of standard that we seek.

My hon. Friend mentioned the work at Waterloo station, which is not only about new trains but about new platform capacity. Much of the network’s signalling needs to be renewed, which is happening. It is also important that the four unused platforms at the former Waterloo International Eurostar terminal are brought back into service. A few winters ago, I took my children to see the “The Railway Children”, which was a marvellous production featuring a steam train coming into the station. How strange it was that platforms at the busiest station in Britain were being used for theatre rather than letting people get on and off trains. That vital piece of infrastructure is now being restored for railway use and will be able to accommodate longer trains on platforms 1 to 4, removing a constraint that has bedevilled commuter journeys from my hon. Friends’ constituencies for many years.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister will want to get through the rest of what she has to impart, but I have two questions. First, given the investment and work going into expansion at Waterloo, has she received assurances or projections from South West Trains that it will be able to alleviate overcrowding by a certain amount as a result of the extra capacity? Secondly, she said that the decision on subsidies and premiums was an operational matter. There must be a public policy on the criteria, rather than there just being a negotiation haggle based on the bids coming in at the time. It must be more than a purely commercial decision. I should be grateful if she could give me some more detail on how the subsidies and premiums are decided, as it is the Government who sign them off.

[Claire Perry]

The problem is that people can turn up and pay to travel on our railways. It is not like an airline, which shuts the doors once a plane is full. While we hope that additional capacity will immediately reduce overcrowding, if more people choose to travel by train, that capacity will continue to be filled. Part of the problem is that the railways have for too long been treated as something that is in steady state. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) said, we had not realised the importance of the railways in generating economic growth or just how valuable the services are to people who travel in and around the south-west and other parts of the country. While I cannot absolutely assure my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton that overcrowding will drop by X per cent, this is the biggest investment in platform capacity and rolling stock for a generation. I hope that when he and I again take the 7.32 train, the situation for all busy services on the network will have changed.

The issue of premiums and subsidies is complicated and relates to predicted cost bases and revenues. In some cases, franchises deliver far more in premium, because passenger numbers go up so the amount from fares goes up. In other cases, there are cost relationships with Network Rail, depending on delays and performance. It is a franchise-specific issue, but I agree that it can be difficult to understand the situation in relation to a specific area. The fundamental problem is that we need to keep investing in the railways right across the country and to ensure that we are driving down operating costs. I am sure my hon. Friend has found that if he explains to passengers on the 7.32 or other trains that a bit of their ticket price is going into reinvestment in the railways to give them a better journey experience, they will feel better about it. That is value for money. The problem is paying for something and getting nothing back.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister is being generous with her time; I know that she has other points to make. It seems to me that it is a raw commercial decision. The fact is that South West Trains passengers will keep paying more and more and South West Trains will keep paying more and more, because there is inelasticity in demand, which ties in with her earlier points. I like to be honest with my constituents and talk to them in plain language. Are the Government saying that the high subsidy—it is called a premium, but it is effectively a subsidy—is what it is because that is what the Government can get away with?

[Claire Perry]

No, I am not saying that at all. My hon. Friend and I both know that passengers also pay, as we all do, for the underlying improvements in track, stations and signalling through general taxation as, indeed, do all the people who do not commute via train. There is general investment in the railways from all of us, as well as specific investments. The idea that captive passengers are treated as a commodity is absolutely 180° opposite to how I feel. Passenger experiences and value for money should be at the heart of every franchise and direct award that we let. My hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that that view is shared strongly by my team.

To touch on one of the things mentioned by my hon. Friend, the alliance between South West Trains and Network Rail is crucial to delivering some of the capacity unlocking that we have talked about. It has been a great success and has delivered things quickly, and its maintenance until the end of 2019 has led us to extend the direct award until then. The alliance is working hard to continue to improve punctuality and performance on the Wessex routes.

Value for money is at the heart of the debate. It is great that the Chancellor has frozen fares again for all regulated passengers, many of whom are season ticket holders. Many more things can be done around promotional fares. I do not know whether my hon. Friend has noticed that South West Trains has brought in a whole series of good-value promotional fares for those who have some flexibility about when they travel during 2014, in particular to coincide with the school holidays. It cannot be a coincidence that when I was in Waterloo this morning, I met two of my former neighbours from Salisbury who had travelled up on those great fares and were visiting London as a result.

My Department’s priority has to be to continue to manage investment in the railways in a way that delivers maximum benefits to passengers and the economy.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister has touched on all the points that I made; I am grateful to her for assiduously doing that. If she can, will she give me her snapshot of Crossrail 2 and the regional option? Does she have a view on that, or would she like to take it away and write to me later? It is a long-term investment, but it would be good to know her view.

[Claire Perry]

Crossrail 1 is delivering a huge amount of connectivity and releasing some capacity on our hard-pressed inner-city and inner-suburban services. May I write to my hon. Friend or, indeed, meet him over a cup of tea to discuss Crossrail 2, which is very much in the planning stage?

We have to keep investing and delivering efficiencies and, above all, we have to put passengers and their journey experience at the heart of everything we do. We are not moving air, or lumps of steel, aluminium, titanium or ceramics; we are moving people. I know from experience how miserable it can be to try to get on an overcrowded train and not to be able to do so. That is unacceptable and we must all work towards a new future for the railways.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Thursday 10th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

T7. Under the previous Government’s franchise, South West Trains passengers are the single biggest subsidisers of other train lines in Britain, yet their services were rated as third worst value for money in 2014, mainly because of overcrowding. Does the Minister recognise that my constituents using South West Trains deserve a fairer deal when Labour’s franchise is renegotiated in 2017?

[Stephen Hammond]

My hon. Friend has rightly consistently raised this matter on behalf of his constituents. He will recognise that the level of overall satisfaction with South West Trains in a recent survey was at about the sector average, but I recognise, as he does, that overcrowding on South West Trains in the peak hours is a well-known issue and it affects the perception of value for money. My Department is working closely with South West Trains to address that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Thursday 6th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman seems not to be bidding; there will be one fewer venue to consider as a result of that sort of intervention. It is not often I hear people complaining about the Government investing in higher education and the future of our engineering skills. I am very proud we are doing it—it will be £20 million well spent.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

7. What steps he is taking to improve value for money for rail passengers.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick McLoughlin)]

We are driving efficiencies through our franchising programme and franchise management, and by encouraging co-operation across the industry. Working with the regulator, we have cut Network Rail’s costs by 40% since 2004, and it has a further efficiency target of just under 20% by 2019. We have also shown our commitment to giving value for money this year by capping the average regulated fare rise at the retail prices index only. That is the first time this has happened in 10 years.

[Mr Raab]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, and I welcome all the measures to which he has referred. Last year, South West Trains paid the Department for Transport the highest premium per passenger kilometre of any operator but had the fourth highest level of overcrowding in London and the south-east. So what more can be done to deliver better value for money for passengers on South West Trains?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I fully accept the points about my hon. Friend’s constituents, and one thing we have been doing is increasing the availability of rolling stock. A number of new trains are on order which will serve his constituents, and I hope that that will bring some relief to the overcrowding. He rightly says that a number of commuters live in his area, and there are problems in providing the peak-hour trains for everybody who wants to travel then. That is why I want to see further encouragements to spread the morning rush hour.

South West Trains

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Hollobone, especially as you are fresh from your doughty defence of parliamentary prerogatives in the main Chamber yesterday.

My constituency is home to a large number of commuters. Every day, more than 22,000 residents of Elmbridge commute to London for work. That represents roughly 38% of the borough’s work force—no small proportion. Many rely on the rail network, which means travelling with South West Trains. As a commuting MP, I know first hand what the service is really like.

The number of people using the railway has increased sharply in recent years. Reflecting national trends, the number of recorded journeys to and from stations in Elmbridge rose by 78% between 2002 and 2010. The most recent figures from the Office of Rail Regulation reveal that, in the financial year 2010-11, 11.6 million passengers used the various Elmbridge stations.

With that in mind, the quality of the service provided by South West Trains is an important issue for local residents. The latest figures published by the consumer watchdog Passenger Focus are disappointing. In autumn 2012, it received 31,500 responses to its national passenger survey. South West Trains was rated the joint-worst train operating company for providing value for money, with just 37% of respondents expressing satisfaction. By contrast, Merseyrail achieved a 70% rating for value for money, and Grand Central achieved 73%.

There are various reasons why so many passengers do not feel they get value for money. For one, overcrowding has worsened. In 2011, the most recent year for which information is available, the company’s morning services ran at 4.1% over capacity, up from 2.8% in 2008. In the evenings, they ran at 2.4% over capacity, up from 1.7% in 2008.

Some services are much worse. According to Department for Transport data, the South West Trains 7.32 am service from Woking to London Waterloo, which I regularly take, is the second most overcrowded service in the whole country. It normally runs at 64% over capacity, carrying 471 more passengers than it is meant to.

The punctuality of South West Trains services has stayed flat over the past five years. On average, a commuter will experience at least one late train per week, and far more at certain times. On top of that, a spate of signalling problems has caused longer delays. The service is also often unable to cope with what must be described as relatively minor snowfall. Of course, some of that is Network Rail’s responsibility. Unfortunately, Network Rail is pretty hopeless too.

It remains to be seen whether the new alliance between South West Trains and Network Rail—the train company and the infrastructure operator—makes a significant difference in practice. I hope it will. We should bear in mind that, in 2012, 4,232 trains were cancelled, up 39.5% on the previous year.

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend share my hope that the alliance between South West Trains and Network Rail will, among other things, elicit some co-operation on looking in depth at some of the capacity issues, particularly on trains into Waterloo? That might be fundamental to addressing some of the overcrowding and overcapacity issues.

[Mr Raab]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He is spot on. Too often, there has been something almost like buck passing on the issue between the train company and infrastructure operator. It is to be hoped that the alliance allows a slightly more coherent, joined-up approach, although I suspect there are limits to what even a more integrated approach can deliver.

The company’s wider performance must be set against a backdrop of sharp increases in fares. Further analysis by the Office of Rail Regulation reveals that season ticket costs for companies operating in London and the south-east rose by 46% between 2004 and 2012, which was just above the national average. Currently, a season ticket between Guildford and London Waterloo costs £3,224 every year. That does not take into account the rising parking charges at stations, an issue that is also the responsibility of South West Trains. Frankly, it is difficult for me to stand on the platform with commuters and residents and to tell them they are getting value for money. I am just not convinced that they are.

Despite rising fares and low customer satisfaction, remuneration at Stagecoach Group, which runs South West Trains, increased between 2010 and 2012 by 8.2% for directors and by 9% for executive directors. The dividends rose by 44% between 2008 and 2012, to 7.8p per ordinary share. That was dwarfed by the one-off dividend issued in 2011, when Stagecoach Group completed a return of value to shareholders of 47p per share. That was worth a grand total of £340 million, including a reported £51 million for the chief executive, Sir Brian Souter.

I appreciate that South West Trains is just one part of Stagecoach Group, but when the performance of South West Trains has been so underwhelming, such figures smack of complacency, if not outright reward for failure. What levers do the Government have under the franchise agreement to press South West Trains to do more to improve the quality of the service and value for money for customers?

Then there is a whole series of questions about the role played by central Government. Under the terms of its franchise agreement, South West Trains pays a premium to the Government for the right to run its services. That was worth 4p per passenger kilometre in 2011-2—the second-highest rate paid by any train operating company to the Treasury. The subsidy paid by South West Trains can be contrasted with the subsidy of 11.4p per passenger kilometre received by ScotRail and the 12p per passenger kilometre subsidy paid to Arriva Trains Wales. Altogether, over the three years to 2011-12, South West Trains paid a whopping £544 million in subsidy to the Treasury— £140 million more than any other train operating company. That is inevitably reflected in fares paid by South West Trains users.

Those figures raise a slew of questions. First, while South West Trains has been the largest net contributor to the Treasury through its premium payments in recent years, other train operating companies in the south-east region were still receiving a Government subsidy. Those included Chiltern Railways and Southeastern. Will the Minister therefore clarify what objective criteria are used to determine which travellers subsidise other lines, how that subsidy is calculated and what can possibly justify the stark discrepancies in the figures?

There is a second range of questions about the regional train companies group, which includes the five train operating companies that received the highest Government subsidy in 2011-12: Arriva Trains Wales, ScotRail, First TransPennine Express, Northern Rail and London Midland. In direct consequence, passengers who use those regional train companies, as classified by the Office of Rail Regulation, have enjoyed below-average increases in the cost of their season tickets.

Let me make a broader point. It is one thing for the Government to seek to control ticket prices in more remote destinations, to prevent them from soaring out of control. However, it is another thing altogether to ask passengers on South West Trains to subsidise below-average season ticket rises in the north, Scotland and Wales, when, as I have made clear, some passengers in the south-east have faced price increases above the national average for their season tickets, in return for crowded carriages and poor service.

That is not just a redistribution of wealth out of general taxation, which understandably and rightly takes place to a degree, but a massive redistribution of wealth from the fares paid by specific commuters using a specific rail service. Can the Minister understand why so many in my constituency, particularly those on low and middling incomes, will find being targeted in such a flagrant manner so unfair?

I suspect most MPs, let alone constituents, have little idea of how their rail services are funded, at least in detail—the mix between user-pays and general taxation—or the criteria being deployed and implemented for each. I wonder what steps the Government are taking to correct that frankly lamentable lack of transparency—which is inherited, I hasten to add—over a vital element of national infrastructure.

Furthermore, it seems reasonable to expect that at least some guarantee can be made that a certain proportion of the premium payments received from busy lines will be reinvested back into those routes. Can the Minister give me any transparency or clarity on that? What assurance can he provide passengers on South West Trains that the premium payments they make are properly reflected in Government investment in the line on which they travel?

Looking at the big picture, the independent review of the rail network by Sir Roy McNulty in 2011 highlighted the extent of the underperformance of the rail network nationwide. Its calculations suggested rail costs in the UK are 20% to 30% higher than they need to be. That is a major cause of concern. The report concluded that up to £1 billion of savings could be made by 2018-19, without any reduction in services. That echoed the analysis of the Office of Rail Regulation in 2010 that revealed Network Rail was up to 40% less efficient than the top European rail infrastructure managers.

I welcome the fact that the Government accepted the McNulty recommendations to end the micro-management of rail operations and give operators greater flexibility to meet passenger demand. I also welcome Ministers’ commitment to achieve the efficiencies McNulty outlined. I would like to ask for an update on the progress made in delivering—not just accepting—the McNulty recommendations. I think a lot of people listening to the debate will not understand why so much is being paid in rising rail fares when such an important element of national infrastructure is lagging behind that in Europe and, to some degree, other developed economies.

I raised the point about the impact on commuters and residents and the sense of value for money. However, there is a broader question about the competitiveness of our economy, in a vital area of infrastructure. There is a huge amount of emphasis and focus on airport capacity and there is some on roads. I fear we are failing to grasp the nettle on this important element of our national infrastructure, with serious knock-on implications for the economy.

Beyond the set of issues that the McNulty Report looked into, does the Minister have any wider views on whether and how more effective competition could be introduced, in order to promote the innovation and value for money that rail users want, and that Britain sorely needs if we are to compete economically in the 21st century, with rising competition from Latin America through to Asia?

To what extent are the changes in systems and the innovation that we want being stymied by militant union leaders such as Bob Crow, who periodically relies on brinkmanship and outdated strike laws to hold the system, and the public, to ransom? I know that Network Rail has quite a broad, serious and substantial programme of reform. I would be interested to hear the Minister’s view on the extent to which that is being held up by the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers and other unions.

In conclusion, South West Trains provides vital services in Elmbridge, but also well beyond. I recognise that running a train service across ageing infrastructure in a time of rising demand is not an easy challenge. There is also the compound effect of rising fares on customers, commuters and residents at a time of rising energy prices and the standard of living becoming a real issue, particularly for the squeezed middle. There is not a huge amount of extra money in the pot. In fact, we are trying to be as frugal as we can, given the huge debt problem inherited from the previous Government.

However, it is important that the managers and directors of South West Trains hear the message loud and clear that their passengers demand better value for money. Commuters pay a substantial and rising share of their income to get to work. It is right and understandable that they expect a fair deal in return. That must comprise reasonable fares, trains that run on time and decent travel conditions. Government must also play their part by providing a coherent overarching framework that promotes innovation and productivity, and transparency in relation to the funding arrangements, in particular by ensuring that passengers on South West Trains are not treated—let us talk frankly—like a cash cow to subsidise other parts of the network, without getting a fair deal in return such as investment in the line and the level of fares.

To sum up, it will take a combined effort to ensure that my residents, all those travelling on South West Trains and the country as a whole get the rail network that we need for the 21st century.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) on his contribution, and I will do my best to answer the points he raised.

As hon. Members know, the South West Trains franchise is primarily based on services operating into and out of the nation’s busiest terminal station, London Waterloo, to a wide range of destinations. It includes the provision of one of Europe’s most intensive suburban and commuter networks, servicing more than 200 stations with more than 1,700 trains a day. The route network, which is managed by Network Rail, extends to 643 miles, with 1,375 sets of points and more than 4,000 signals. The network is therefore complicated.

One issue with the railways is that of success. We have seen a fantastic growth in passenger numbers over the past 15 years; across the country, numbers have just about doubled. They are where they were in 1929, on a network that is about the half the size that it was then. That is a huge operating challenge for Network Rail and the train companies, and it means that there is sometimes no longer the space to pick up on problems when they occur. Every train that is late has a knock-on effect on every other train all the way behind it.

I now turn to the operational performance of the South West Trains franchise, as my hon. Friend raised that matter. According to the public performance measure, which is used to record arrival within five minutes of the scheduled time, its current performance is 91.4%. That is a moving annual average. My hon. Friend may be interested to know that, for the latest period, 67% or thereabouts of arrivals were within one minute of the scheduled arrival time.

The company maintains its position as the most punctual railway south of the Thames. It is important to make that point, as it might be of some comfort to my hon. Friend, given his concerns. Its operational performance is better than that of Southeastern, which had a performance figure of 91.2%, while the five-minute performance figure for Southern was 88.3%, and it was 88.7% for First Capital Connect. The company’s joint performance improvement plan target of 92.7% of trains over the course of the year arriving at their destination within five minutes of the published arrival time will unfortunately be missed by around 1%, but that is still a better performance than other train companies in the south-east. However, that is not to say that we are complacent about performance in any way.

My hon. Friend asked what levers we had. In my capacity as Minister for rail performance, I regularly meet train companies and Network Rail not only to go through performance generally across the network, but to pick up individual problems. For example, I had a meeting this morning with East Coast Trains about problems on the line north of King’s Cross. Such meetings take place regularly.

There are, of course, safeguards in the franchise regime. My hon. Friend may have seen that, in the case of London Midland, we exercised our right to invoke penalties—or at least to secure passenger benefits that London Midland had to pay for—as a consequence of its poor performance on the network, which was below acceptable standards.

As and when train companies fall below the specified standard, we will invoke measures to ensure that passengers effectively get some compensation for that poor performance. Ultimately, of course, a franchise can be removed from a train company, although the performance has to be really bad for that nuclear option to be exercised.

The autumn 2012 national passenger survey by Passenger Focus showed that 85% of passengers were satisfied overall with South West Trains, which was a higher figure than that for any other train company south of the River Thames. Another survey was undertaken—I think by Which?—but it was not statistically valid. The Passenger Focus survey is independent and properly validated, so it is the one to which we should pay attention.

My hon. Friend is right to say that we need to do more to drive up performance, which is one of the reasons why we are pursuing the concept of alliancing, which has been piloted in the South West Trains area.

[Mr Raab]

There is a discrepancy between the passenger surveys that are being quoted, because the autumn 2012 Passenger Focus survey rated South West Trains as the joint worst for providing value for money—I think that is the most recent survey—with a satisfaction rating of 37%, which suggests a slightly worse picture than the Minister indicates. If customers are giving such a poor indictment of the state of the service, despite the punctuality statistics that the Minister has kindly cited, is he suggesting that those customers have got it wrong? Is he suggesting that they are not appreciative enough of the service? I travel on the line every day, and I suspect that those people are right. I suspect that I am among the more than 60% who do not think that we get decent value for money.

[Norman Baker]

As I understand it, the figure my hon. Friend cites is about value for money. I was talking about overall passenger satisfaction with the network, which takes account of a wide range of factors, including, for example, the information given on station platforms and the cleanliness of trains. A wide range of factors make up Passenger Focus’s overall figure. I will drop him a line to clarify exactly what the various surveys say so that he is familiar with them and able to report back to his constituents with full knowledge of the nuances of the various surveys.

Alliancing was piloted in the South West Trains area, and it was recommended by the rail Command Paper as a key mechanism for aligning incentives in the rail industry and driving out costs. Alliancing was supported by Sir Roy McNulty’s report on rail value for money and by Richard Brown’s review of rail franchising.

With support from the Secretary of State, South West Trains and Network Rail commenced operation of the deep alliance, a commercial arrangement between South West Trains and Network Rail, on 29 April 2012. I make it clear that we as a Government—and therefore the taxpayer—take no downside risk in the alliance, but above a threshold, we receive funds from profits earned through efficiencies.

The alliance has established a day-to-day management relationship between the two core organisations that represents an unprecedented level of co-operation between track and train to improve performance and efficiency on the route. The alliance’s scope includes the operation and maintenance activities of the Network Rail Wessex route and all South West Trains activities other than IT. The alliance does not extend to Network Rail’s capital enhancement or renewals schemes, although incorporating those activities and realising efficiencies from them remains a long-term aim. Initial financial baselines of costs and revenues for both parties have been agreed by the alliance. By reference to those baselines, the parties share the risk and reward for the financial performance of the alliance through a pain-gain sharing arrangement. If the gain is sufficient, the Government also benefit on behalf of the taxpayer.

My hon. Friend mentioned fares, and we are all acutely conscious of the need to try to bring to an end the era of above-inflation rail fare increases, as the Government has clearly set out. We inherited a situation in which the previous Labour Government had driven up rail fares by above inflation under a process that started, I think, in 2003-04. The difference between the previous Government and this Government is that we are investing heavily in the network to try to provide extra capacity to address some of the issues that he rightly raises on behalf of his constituents, whereas fare increases in previous years were simply a measure to provide extra funds to the Treasury for other uncertain purposes. We now have the biggest rail investment programme since Victorian times, and the South West Trains area, like all others, will benefit.

The present fare arrangements, which we seek to bring to an end as the Network Rail efficiency savings kick in, allow regulated fares to rise by 1% above the retail prices index each year. Importantly, the formula is exactly the same as that applied nearly all the way through the previous Labour Government. The formula is applied equally across England, so there is no difference between what we do for the South West Trains franchise and what we do for Northern Rail or TransPennine Express. They all use RPI plus 1, unless there are exceptional circumstances, such as under the previous Government when the Southeastern franchise used RPI plus 3 for a while to pay for the Javelin high-speed train. The subsidies for First ScotRail and Arriva Trains Wales are not a matter for us, as they are entirely determined by, respectively, the Scottish Government and the Welsh Assembly. What they do with their trains and their money is up to them.

Through the franchising process, we also try to ensure that we get the best value for taxpayers’ money, because the more money we get in, the more we are able to invest in addressing the capacity and crowding problems to which my hon. Friend rightly referred. There is a competitive tendering process for each franchise, and I am sure that he accepts that it is in our interest to get the best possible price for each franchise. If that means that we are securing money through a premium from the franchise holder, that is a good outcome for the taxpayer. There are clearly some areas of the country in which the train service will not turn a profit, meaning that a premium is not possible. Under this Government, we have seen a general trend towards ensuring a better balance between the fare payer and the taxpayer. Driving out inefficiencies leads to the opportunity to try to correct some of the imbalances that exist across the network.

[Mr Raab]

The Minister is most generous with his time. The point I made in my speech was that the subsidy from South West Trains users is 4p per passenger kilometre—that is what fare payers pay back to the Government, presumably for wider investment in rail infrastructure. If we look not just at Scotland and Wales, but at Northern Rail, London Midland and Southeastern, they receive a subsidy from central Government. Will the Minister explain how that is determined? On what possible basis can those discrepancies be justified?

[Norman Baker]

Obviously, nearly all the franchises were let under the previous Government so, in a sense, we inherited the arrangements that apply to the various franchises across the country, and they cannot be unpicked during the period of a franchise. However, we can try to influence future franchises, and the Secretary of State will make a statement to the House in the near future about how we are taking forward the franchising regime.

Inevitably, some lines are profitable and some lines are not, and that is simply down to market forces. A concentrated commuter network or a highly attractive route—say, from London to Manchester—is more likely to be profitable than a route that serves a large number of small stations, such as between Inverness and Wick and Thurso. It is difficult to envisage how that could ever make a profit, because it is a long, straggly line that few people use. Market forces therefore inevitably apply, but our job is to try to ensure that we secure the maximum return from the private sector to enable us to reinvest in the network for the future.

My hon. Friend mentioned Brian Souter’s salary but, on the other hand, his company is now paying a premium to the taxpayer. In a sense, the private sector system seems to be working. Brian Souter has invested heavily. He is taking the rewards for himself, which he is entitled to do, but he is also paying a premium to the taxpayer that enables us to reinvest. The system seems to be working, and we want to get more train companies paying money to the Government. If we can do that, because efficiencies have been driven in and inefficiencies have been driven out, it is all to the good.

I am afraid that I have not been able to say anything about investment, but there are large investment plans for the South West Trains area. I will happily drop my hon. Friend a line to set out what they are, but they include longer platforms and trains, and in due course steps to improve the situation at Waterloo.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I have a great deal of sympathy for that point of view and recognise that there is an issue with access to work for young people and students that needs to be dealt with. That is why I have been discussing the matter with the Confederation of Passenger Transport UK, which is the umbrella body for bus companies, and I am very happy to liaise with colleagues in the Scottish Government and others to try to take it forward.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

T8. For completeness, I should declare that my wife works for Google, albeit in a capacity unrelated to this question. Google, Audi, Ford and Volvo are among the firms pioneering driverless cars, which could cut road accidents by up to 90% while freeing up time that could unleash massive productivity gains. Several US states are testing the technology. What action is the Department taking to explore the viability of that innovation in this country? [R]

[Stephen Hammond]

The technology for driverless cars is, as my hon. Friend says, advancing very quickly. As the Secretary of State just said, our key priority is safety and I want to ensure that those systems are safe and reliable before allowing them on to UK roads. There is of course great potential for UK technology to be at the forefront of these developments and departmental officials are liaising with leading UK researchers in the field.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Norman Baker]

I have already referred to the cycling stakeholder forum, which met yesterday and which I attended. We are looking at safety issues very seriously, as the hon. Lady would expect. I do not think it is a question of how long lorries are. The particular issue with HGVs is about lorries turning left and catching cyclists on the inside. That is one reason why I have now given permission for all local authorities across the country to install Trixi mirrors to pick up those manoeuvres. It is also why the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), is looking at issues relating to the information available to the driver in the cab.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

7. What steps she is taking to invest in road infrastructure.

[The Secretary of State for Transport (Justine Greening)]

The 2010 spending review committed investment of £2.3 billion for major road improvements over the next four years. We also committed to investment of £614 million towards local road projects. The 2011 autumn statement provided a further £1 billion investment for strategic roads.

[Mr Raab]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. Surrey pays more revenue to the Exchequer than any part of the country outside London, but it has the third-worst roads and, taking traffic volumes into account, gets the second-lowest funding of all counties for highways maintenance. What steps is she taking to repair and maintain Surrey’s roads so that the county can continue to generate high revenue for Britain?

[Justine Greening]

I agree that is important. Actually, the latest statistics published by the Department suggest that Surrey road conditions are slightly higher than average. Of the 117 local authorities where we allocate highway maintenance funding, Surrey falls into the top 15 and we are providing £61 million. In addition, my hon. Friend will know that we are focused on important schemes; we are providing £24 million towards the Walton bridge scheme that is now under construction. We are willing to put in that investment, and it will make a big difference on the ground.

Oral Answers to Questions

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend raises the important point of the affordability of child care. It was disappointing that under the previous Administration, child care costs went up by some 60%. We are trying to ensure that there is practical help for families. We are already investing some £2 billion in child care through the child care tax credit and the early education grants, and through universal credit there will be an extra £300 million to provide 80,000 extra families with child care support that they did not have before.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

5. What plans she has to bring forward legislative proposals on same-sex marriage.

[The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone)]

The Government believe that if a couple love each other and want to commit to a life together, they should have the option of a civil marriage regardless of their gender or sexual orientation. We published a formal consultation on 15 March, which considers how to enable same-sex couples to have a civil marriage. The consultation runs until 14 June. That timetable would enable us to make any legislative changes before the end of this Parliament. Our current priority is the consultation, and we want to hear from all those with an interest in this matter.

[Mr Raab]

I personally support the proposal to allow gay marriage in civil ceremonies. I am concerned, and constituents and local clergy have also expressed the concern, that, by redefining marriage, we may—may—expose churches and other religious institutions to legal challenge and force them to marry gay couples under the Human Rights Act 1998 and the Equality Act 2010. Will the Minister give a clear assurance that our churches will not end up in the dock in Strasbourg?

[Lynne Featherstone]

I thank my hon. Friend for his support for equal marriage. When we consider proposed legislation, we will ensure that there is no risk of successful legal challenge against religious organisations that do not marry same-sex couples. It would not be religious organisations, but the United Kingdom Government in the dock in Strasbourg. We respect and understand the concerns of religious organisations, and we want to work closely with them to give them that reassurance. Just as we were able to reassure Members of this House and the House of Lords about civil partnerships being registered on religious premises to the point where they felt that they could let that pass, we will do the same in this case.