Cost of Living

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in this worthwhile and timely debate. I apologise for not being able to take part in yesterday’s debate, but it is really important that we talk about how we can help households and families in our constituencies that are facing the real pressure of increased house prices, and all the anxiety and difficulties that go with that. I agree that the Government must do what they can to mitigate increasing living costs, particularly for low and fixed-income families.

I regularly host drop-ins across west Cornwall, where people can come along and raise whatever issue they like. I try to do so in every part of my constituency: like many Members present, I represent a large rural area, and it is important that I get to where people are. Many people, pensioners in particular, have come to me in recent months. Those households have worked hard to plan for their retirement, but find that their pension has become less able to meet their basic living costs—a position that they never expected to be in. These are not just pensioners on the state pension who might be getting pension credit: there are those who have a small pension in addition, but are finding that costs are outrunning their income.

I have also come across several families whose rent costs have rocketed over the past couple of years—an issue that I raised in this Chamber last month. It is really important that the Government look at how we can manage and protect housing supply, particularly in places such as Cornwall, which is a very attractive place to visit and possibly an attractive place to buy a second home or bolthole. That forces up the price of homes for the people living there, and that is true for lots of other constituencies, particularly coastal ones. The Government must look more earnestly at increasing the availability of rental properties and homes to buy by protecting them for permanent residents. When we build new homes, it is important that they meet a local need, as is the case in St Ives, which is part of my constituency. This is about the cost of housing and rent.

[Mike Amesbury]

Would not part of the solution be to build homes for social rent, allocated to local residents? Fewer than 6,000 of those homes were built last year. Would the hon. Member agree that homes for social rent must certainly be a big part of the solution?

[Derek Thomas]

I completely would, and I welcome that intervention. However, in parts of the country, including my constituency, families with fairly decent incomes who would never qualify for that list are also seeing their rents rocketing. We are talking about the nurses, teachers and police officers we need to come to take jobs in Cornwall, or stay in the county, and who cannot afford the rents they are expected to pay.

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman’s point. Cornwall County Council, now under a Conservative administration, is ramping up the provision of social rental properties. That meets the needs of a particular group of constituents, but does not reach or solve the whole problem.

In view of the rising costs of housing, Cornish MPs are arguing in favour of protecting new buildings for permanent residents only, which will help to protect those homes for local need. I agree that we need to look at every tool available to ensure that people have secure homes for life that they can feel safe in. Those homes should be built efficiently, so that rising energy costs, which I will address in a minute, can be managed, so that we are not just heating up the planet when we are trying to heat our homes.

I want to touch briefly on energy costs. My understanding at the moment is that the cost of production of energy has not risen. Companies that are producing it, not all of them based in the UK, are making colossal sums of money due to demand. I am interested to hear from the Minister what the Government are looking to do to bring the cost that suppliers pay for energy closer to the cost of production.

Another area to look at is the feed-in tariff. For example, customers are seeing energy prices increase and that is expected to carry on this year, but those who are feeding into the energy supply, through solar panels or wind turbines they have invested in, are not seeing any change in the money they receive for that energy. It seems sensible for the Minister to look at whether the feed-in tariff should be tracked against the energy costs people pay.

There is no doubt that the energy market needs reform, but right now urgent help is needed for households most hit by energy prices. I heard the calls for a cut in VAT, but householders concerned about energy costs have already worked extremely hard to reduce the amount of energy they use, sometimes choosing not to heat their homes in order to feed their families. The VAT element of the bill for those families will be tiny: they might save £20 or £30, perhaps a little more, a year in VAT. If I owned several electric cars, a couple of hot tubs, maybe a swimming pool, and a massive house with lights on all the time, the savings I would make from the VAT cut would be significant. We are not helping the households that most need it with the headline-grabbing promise to cut VAT on energy.

There must be targeted and effective help for the families I have referred to, the pensioners, people on fixed incomes and low-income households. There should be cash to help with energy bills and, at the same time, an effective way to improve people’s homes. We have had lots of schemes recently where large amounts of money have been made available for people to retrofit their homes. In Cornwall, builders—people involved in construction—were already run off their feet with building homes and looking after Cornwall’s homes and did not choose to take up those offers. People came in from different parts of the country to retrofit homes, not doing it properly or effectively, and often going bust before they got found out.

Lots of Government money was wasted while the homes were not actually improved. The Government need to look carefully at how we retrofit homes, probably through local authorities, where that can be targeted and effective. Ultimately, not now but in the near future, the Government with their sizeable majority could properly reform the energy market so that the poorest families paid hardly anything—if anything—for energy, and those more demanding homes paid more.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

rose—

[Derek Thomas]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman and then I ought to finish, because I am getting the eye.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that energy market reform also requires a reform of transmission charges? While in most parts of England a subsidy will be given to provide energy, north of a certain line north of London people have to charge to produce energy to put it on to the national grid, and that reduces the ability of renewables to lower energy costs.

[Derek Thomas]

I agree that there is a need for a time out to properly look at the energy market and how it works. The price cap we introduced a few years back was helpful and certainly it is helping right now; my understanding is that the variable tariff is the best to be on. However, I met policy advisers some years ago to discuss some sort of block tier energy price, where the first units paid are extremely cheap or free and the more units someone uses, the more they have to pay. We have to retrofit the poorer homes to make sure that does not penalise them, but there is a need in the energy market to make those who can afford it contribute to the cost of energy for those who cannot. It is not a luxury; it is something that we need to care about. We do care about it, and we need to do something.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Pension Funds: Financial and Ethical Investments

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

In 2018, the Government said they would update the law to require trustees to consider the impact of their investment on a changing environment. That has now been implemented. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Sir Edward Davey) on securing this debate, He clearly set out the changing environment in the world of fossil fuel companies. Pensions funds are investments for many years. Our job in this place is to ensure that people who invest in a pension fund, but who do not necessarily have the power to decide where their money is invested, can be confident that their pension is secure and will provide the retirement that they expect.

Is a pension fund in a fossil fuel a sound investment? Evidence suggests it is not. The Government, for example, are introducing a ban on carbon-fuelled new cars in 2040. Calor, which I met last year, has committed to 100% BioLPG by 2040. This month, a whole week went by in which no energy generation came from coal-fired energy plants. Our focus should be on ensuring a secure future for pension fund savers, and investment in fossil fuel does not provide that. It should also be on the choices that pension fund owners want to make. Many employees have no choice in where their pension contributions end up, and increasing numbers of people would be horrified if they thought that the funds they hold were invested in fossil fuels, when at home they do all they can to reduce their carbon footprint.

I heard what was said earlier about the need to invest in companies for research and development to provide cleaner and carbon-free fuels. I am sure that, given a choice, people would welcome that, but they need to be given a choice about where their funds end up, and they need their funds to be secure and invested in something that they feel comfortable with. The Government have a real opportunity to support employees and to ensure greater transparency in where their money ends up and where the pension funds put their money, as well as greater choice in pension markets. Empowering consumers will have a greater impact when it comes to caring for our natural environment.

Application of the Family Test

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I thank my Cornwall colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double), for securing this really important debate. It is good that we continue to return to this subject. I know the Minister to be a man of compassion and empathy who wants to do the right thing in this area.

I would like to think that I am a Back-Bench Member of a progressive Government. At the moment, it might be difficult to see signs of that. I listened to the responses that my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) received from different Departments, and there seems to be a real lack of enthusiasm about applying the family test. I absolutely support the creation of a Secretary of State in this area, which would be important for the wellbeing of our great nation, and the establishment of family hubs.

A great number of topics have been covered already. I will touch on some specific examples of where we are failing families, and where there is evidence that the family test is needed. The review of policy is not helping but hindering family units. The establishment of a one-stop shop where families can go to get help and support whenever things arise would be very welcome. I was very pleased to put my name to the “Manifesto to Strengthen Families”. I often look at what progress we are making in delivering those outcomes.

It is just common sense to apply the family test to legislation. Doing right for families in Government policy has to be the most effective way of creating stronger, healthier communities that feel well, cared for, valued and empowered to play their part in caring for each other. The issue concerns not just people in families, but those who are not, because strong families are a very important part of addressing isolation and loneliness for those who do not have loved ones.

I will mention a series of examples. I have not plucked them from the media or social media; they are examples from my constituency that show where we are failing families, often through policy and its implementation. The Home Office has been mentioned, and I have been working with the Home Secretary on one particular case.

As part of our immigration policy, we welcome people from the Commonwealth to work in our armed forces—this year we are increasing their number to 1,000. For various reasons, they tend to do jobs that are not significantly well paid. I had one such case, which has now been resolved through some clever working of the law. These people are not allowed to bring their loved ones, including their children. They are not allowed to do other jobs because their visa and their commitment to the Ministry of Defence mean that they cannot top up income and reach the threshold that allows them to bring over their wives and children.

The crazy thing about that particular part of immigration policy is that there is no risk that the people will disappear, because they have fixed contracts with the MOD and have to return to their original countries when they finish their contracts, which, in this case, are 12-year contracts. They are provided with housing and there are no concerns about their being a burden on society, so it is a bizarre breakdown of immigration policy and concern for families. Fortunately, in the case I mentioned, we have found a way for this particular individual to come over, but among the 1,000 people who will come from the Commonwealth this year, a number of men and women will not be able to bring their husbands, wives or children.

I chair the all-party parliamentary group on brain tumours. We have seen great progress in the diagnosis, treatment and removal of brain tumours in this country, but for children that progress has been poor. When they survive a brain tumour—I was pleased to be able to mention this at Prime Minister’s questions last week—they are left with an injury and we fail them because we do not put in place the available therapies and care, which would be available to a stroke patient with a similar type of injury. We do not do that for those children. Families are put under incredible pressure because we do not support them in supporting the child to have the best life chances. As a result, families spend a lifetime receiving support from social services and the NHS, which could be avoided—that is proven.

Another area where we fail families and that the family test and application of Government policy should address is special needs education in schools. Schools are now under enormous pressure and unable to provide the necessary support to children with special educational needs. The impact on family is not the breakdown of relationships between the child, the family and the school, but the child’s removal from a school that is unable to provide adequate support, however hard it tries. That means that families suddenly become isolated and lost from the system as they try desperately to give their child the best start.

[Steve Double]

Does my hon. Friend agree that this relates not only to education, but to the huge burden faced by families with children with special educational needs during school holidays, when all the support on the education side is taken away? Will he join me in commending the Cornwall Accessible Activities Programme, a local charity in Cornwall that provides support to parents with children with special educational needs during the school holidays?

[Derek Thomas]

Absolutely. It was really good to have a debate in the main Chamber recently about the work of voluntary organisations in supporting families in that very situation. The Government still have responsibility and we should look at how Government policy helps or hinders the lives of families.

Another example from my constituency is a family with two children in separate schools—they were doing well, having moved from other schools. Because of a situation at home, they were evicted and the council’s response was to move them out of the area, away from their schools. Suddenly, through a breakdown of proper legislation and support, the family was ripped out of their local community and support network, and the children were ripped out of schools in which they had become established and were beginning to do well. That is another example demonstrating that the family test is either not considered or not applied and that we are failing families.

As well as the issue of special educational needs, another problem is what the Department of Work and Pensions calls “natural migration” to universal credit—the Minister will know about that. Natural migration sounds very easy, straightforward and normal, but it is not at all. People who naturally migrate on to universal credit have quite often had devastating changes to their lives and situations—for example, a loved one who is the household earner suddenly developing an illness, a significant health problem or another reason why they can no longer be the breadwinner, meaning that they move on to universal credit.

As support mechanisms and transitional arrangements are not being introduced until next year, that change is proving difficult and causing real hardship for families. I have met the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions about this. She explained that work coaches should be sensitive to the issue and should not pursue natural migration, but I know from constituents that that is not the case.

Natural migration happens when someone loses a loved one. In those situations, families are broken apart through circumstances beyond their control, and without even realising, they are suddenly subject to the welfare system. When universal credit is eventually complete, that system will probably be better for them—I am not opposed to it—but natural migration to universal credit is causing hardship for many people. Many find that it works when their circumstances change for positive reasons, but for those who fall through a disastrous net—or, dare I say it, over a cliff edge—we must intervene quickly.

On mental health, I have a case in which loving parents are at the absolute end of their resources and energy because of a very unwell 13-year-old daughter. The problem is that, despite the involvement of lots of agencies, the people from them go home at the end of the day and leave the parents to do what they can with a very unwell young lady. Having worked on and watched this situation closely, I can say that we are not providing the right support, empathy or care for families in which young ones have mental health problems.

An issue that I have raised many times is fuel poverty. Government policy should look at how we improve people’s homes. With poor-quality homes and fuel poverty, children do not attain what they can, do not reach their potential in education, and their homes are not as productive as they could be. The older people in those homes find that they enter into social services and NHS care far more often than they would otherwise. It is a massive issue for places in this country, including my constituency, where homes are not of the standard they should be: they are leaky and fuel-poor. Since I was first elected, I have argued that Government could use infrastructure money to address that situation, and that doing so would be a cost saving to Government. I have yet to hear a serious response from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

It is absolutely right that the family test should apply to new legislation. That is good and necessary, but I would also like the Minister to consider how we can review existing legislation and the examples I have given, to look at what the Government can do to ensure we are on the side of families and avoid some of the issues that I have set out. That would be a win for Government; there is huge support across the country for strengthening families, and for Government policy to support families.

We must show a commitment to families, make life easier for them where possible, and remove the unnecessary barriers and unintended consequences that Government policy is causing for our families. Communities are so much stronger when families work well. I am grateful for having had the opportunity to speak in this debate.

Disability Assessment Services

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate, Sir Christopher, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Gillian Keegan) on securing it. I know that the Minister, who is almost a constituency neighbour, is fully engaged in the issue, and we should be in no doubt about how committed she is to finding a way through.

[Vicky Ford]

Would my hon. Friend like to take this opportunity to put firmly on the record what a brilliant Minister and champion for disabled people she is?

[Derek Thomas]

I am sorry that I did not make it quite as plain as my hon. Friend did, but that was the point that I was trying to make.

I am fortunate that in my office I have a member of staff who used to work in the DWP, before I pinched him. He has taken this issue seriously, and we work hard and often successfully to support people who find themselves challenging, and struggling because of, PIP decisions. My office has seen numerous cases of the DWP accepting a poor medical report containing obvious errors and incorrect recommendations from medical services. If those reports had been returned at an earlier stage, decisions would have been overturned immediately.

We have also seen numerous cases in which the mandatory reconsideration has rubber-stamped the original decision, failing to reflect in any detail what the constituent has said or to refer to any new evidence provided, and in which the DWP has failed to send new medical evidence for a medical opinion—I mentioned that earlier—to contact the constituent to find out more, or to consider further evidence when it is provided. Therefore, once a mandatory reconsideration is done, it must go to appeal. I know that is often very much the responsibility of work coaches and individual jobcentres, but there is a need for leadership in addressing the problem.

Resolving any disputes without the need for an appeal will help to ensure that people receive the right decision earlier in the process. Avoiding a tribunal saves money and time for everyone concerned. I am reluctant to mention the Minister’s constituency and county, but the tribunal statistics for the Truro tribunal centre in this financial year show that 351 PIP appeals have been cleared, with the DWP’s decision upheld on only 32 occasions. We have heard other tribunal statistics this afternoon, but in Cornwall 90% of tribunal appeals are won. That must be addressed; we need to look at what is going on in Cornwall.

A constituent of mine was awarded no PIP at all, but on appeal was awarded higher mobility and daily living components within minutes of attending the tribunal. I dropped off my member of staff as I went to another meeting on the way up to London, and he texted me within 15 minutes to say we had won—it was almost immediate, because the minute the tribunal started my constituent was awarded the higher allowance.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Like the hon. Gentleman and his office, we have had cases—in particular those related to PIP and other benefits—where it has been questionable whether people will get their benefits through examination. I know that the Secretary of State is looking at that, but it also strikes me that the companies who do the assessments are not well managed and, more importantly, their staff are not trained properly. Does the hon. Gentleman agree?

[Derek Thomas]

That is fair. I sit on the Select Committee on Work and Pensions with other colleagues in the Chamber, and we hear such examples all the time.

I met the individual I am talking about and I could see clearly that he should have been getting the higher mobility component. An assessor who had asked the right questions and inquired after the person’s clear and obvious physical difficulties would have discovered their whole life was adapted to be independent, and a tribunal would absolutely have been avoided.

On a few occasions, medical services for PIP assessments have stated that tribunals are not as “restricted as we are”, when justifying the fact that tribunals are often successful for the claimant. Our understanding, however, is that they all follow the same legislation and the same medical handbook, so it can only be down to poor information gathering, poor questioning and poor decision making.

The Minister knows about what I will mention now, and I am sure that she shares my concern. If the DWP did not rubber-stamp mandatory reconsiderations, as it does, people in Cornwall would not be left in desperation, causing them to turn to organisations such as Benefit Resolutions, which charges clients £100 before it even looks at the cases. Then, from some of our most vulnerable people, it takes 15% of tribunal winnings in commission. It no longer attends tribunals, and it uses aggressive tactics with the DWP, other offices and its clients. Going by the results claimed on its website, Benefit Resolutions has taken almost £200,000 from the most vulnerable people in Cornwall over the past four years. There have been numerous complaints about its conduct throughout Cornwall, and the previous charity related to it, which was called Bufferzone, was closed down following an investigation by the Charity Commission.

I take the opportunity to remind people that the many free-to-use services include Citizens Advice, Counselling and Benefit Support, disAbility Cornwall and MPs’ offices. I have serious questions about the work and moral justification of companies such as Benefit Resolutions. I would always encourage people to make contact with the organisations that I have referred to. However, the truth remains that Benefit Resolutions and companies like it exist only as a result of incompetent and poor service provided by the system.

To conclude, I will read from a letter that has been submitted as a formal complaint to the DUP, I mean the DWP—probably not the DUP, though they might do a better job—which clearly sets out the case being made this afternoon:

“Last week I had a PIP assessment which lasted an hour and a half. They ask you really hard questions like do you think about committing suicide, and you have to go over again and again how your disability or illness has affected your life.

I understand they have to assess people and I am grateful there is somewhere that we can ask for help in this country, but the system is failing and more importantly it is hurting people…This was my third assessment in three years. It was gruelling and left me completely distraught afterwards. Having to face how much my life has changed and how little I can do now in comparison to before is very difficult. Watching the person who is sitting in on your assessment with you get visibly upset by the process is heart-breaking.

I have probably over 20 supporting letters from doctors, neurologists, colorectal surgeons and healthcare professionals. These letters state that I am not going to get better. That things are likely to deteriorate for me. Not fun reading. I hand them all over willingly.

A week later I got a phone call saying that I would have to be reassessed again. The healthcare professional had not gathered enough evidence. They were at my house for an hour and a half asking me question after question. I have support from all my doctors. How could they not have enough evidence? They could not answer that question. My father asked for management to call back the next day. They did not, and have not fulfilled that request. Instead I was booked in the next day for another assessment. Not just a few extra questions. I have to go through the whole thing again.”

Thank you, Sir Christopher.

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

I will call the wind-ups at 10 past 5 o’clock, which means that we have about 12 minutes and four or five people wanting to speak.

The Secretary of State’s Handling of Universal Credit

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 11th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

The only things that actually matter today are the life chances of people who have been failed for decades by the benefit system. People who have been trapped out of the workplace do not care two hoots for the politics on display here today.

In a previous life, I worked to support working-age people who had little or no opportunity of getting anywhere near the workplace and satisfying employment. Even those who had abundant talent and wanted to work dared not do so. They were locked out of paid work by the complete disruption getting a job would cause to their benefits, with weeks of no payment whatever until they were reassessed.

[Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend reflect on the nature of his constituency? Some constituencies have a great many people earning a great deal of money, but that is not reflected in all constituencies.

[Derek Thomas]

My hon. Friend is right. I went into that work because in west Cornwall we have a significant number of people who could be described as vulnerable, some with severe learning disabilities, and who deserve the support and help that they are beginning to get today.

Under the benefit system that universal credit replaces, potential employers were encouraged to offer placements and pay people a pitiful £4 a day so as not to upset their benefit payments. For years, the welfare system demonstrated loud and clear that large numbers of people had nothing to offer. It was not thought worth the effort to help them into work and they were abandoned indefinitely.

I accept that the roll-out of universal credit has had some significant challenges, which is no surprise, given the complexity of the benefit system it replaces. It is clear that more must be done. I want to thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and her Ministers for the way they have engaged with Members who have taken specific cases to them. Ministers have engaged with those cases and worked hard to deliver them.

I secured a debate in Westminster Hall some time ago in which I asked the Government to look at the role of voluntary groups on the ground—they are at the coalface helping people—and, as a result, the dynamic purchasing system was introduced. I ask the Secretary of State to look at how well that is helping the charities that are working with those vulnerable people.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

When individual cases go wrong, of course they should be fixed. At a time of record low unemployment this country spends some £90 billion a year on working-age benefits—as it should—but to put that in context, that is more than double what we spend on schools. In those circumstances, does my hon. Friend agree that the suggestion that somehow resources are not being applied is wide of the mark?

[Derek Thomas]

I agree, and I know from my experience of working with some of those vulnerable people that they have untapped talents and skills. Employers want access to those skills, but all sorts of barriers have existed. They are beginning to be broken down now, enabling people to move away from the support my hon. Friend describes and giving them much more control over their lives.

More must be done to improve the roll-out and support families towards achieving greater independence, but the truth is that when the transition from the old system to universal credit is completed, many of the people I meet and have met much prefer the new system. I will continue to support my constituents to transfer to a benefit system that gives them greater control over their finances, and better and smoother opportunities in work and life chances.

My ask of the Government and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is that they ensure that local authorities and jobcentres use the resources they have, including the dynamic purchasing system, much more effectively to help all people who for so long have been locked out of the life chances that we want them to have.

Marriage in Government Policy

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered marriage and Government policy.

I am pleased to have secured this debate and grateful for the opportunity to speak to this important subject. I am also pleased to see a good number of Members here; I hope that is a sign of support for the promotion of the importance of marriage in Government policy. I welcome the Minister and wish him well in his new role.

In a week’s time, we will celebrate the 21st national Marriage Week. It will be 20 years ago this summer that I married my wife Tamsin Thomas. She tells the tale that when she met me, she was Christmas shopping and I was standing on a street corner with a bottle of methylated spirits. That is true, but it does not exactly explain the situation.

I would be wrong if I said that we had been happily married for 20 years—that it had been idyllic and that there had been no challenges. There have been considerable challenges; when she moved into my home, I found her moving the cutlery in the cutlery drawer frustrating enough. But I recognise that over those 20 years I have had a wife who has raised my children and been a tremendous support to me. I have been no help at all: I spent years working on the marriage and then left her to come to this place. I give credit to my wife and all the wives and husbands of Members across the House who are so supportive in the work that we do. I recognise the challenge of having strong and healthy marriages and couple relationships in which we raise our children.

It is now seven years since a Government Minister took the opportunity to set out the Government’s approach to promoting marriage in a speech during Marriage Week. When we last debated this issue in 2017, the Minister’s predecessor but one tried to reassure Members that

“the Department intends to continue to work very hard to ensure that marriage gets the support it needs to continue being a strong bedrock for the families and the children for whom we want to secure the best possible outcomes in the future.”—[Official Report, 1 February 2017; Vol. 620, c. 389WH.]

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman will come to this in his speech, but my constituents raise with me on repeated occasions at my Friday surgeries the difficulties that the Home Office places on their marriages. They cannot see their spouses because they live abroad and cannot get into the country. Does he agree that by not allowing people to live out their marriages, the Home Office is undermining people’s relationships?

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas]

I intend to demonstrate that the Government need to look clearly, across Government policy and Departments, at their role in promoting and protecting marriages and families. I will not be particularly interested in the issue that the hon. Lady mentioned in her intervention, but I am sure that there will be an opportunity to tackle that subject as we go on.

The Minister said that the Department intended to continue to work very hard to support marriage, but some weeks later it omitted the word altogether in its plans to support the poorest families in our country. Many Members will join me in making what I think is a simple request: for the Minister to ensure that no serious policy document is published by his Department without some reference to improving the stability of families through marriage. I hope the Minister might make that commitment today.

Research shows that unmarried parents are six times more likely to break up before their first child’s fifth birthday. By the time a British teenager is studying for their GCSEs, they are three times more likely to live with both their birth parents if those parents are married. Three in five children born to unmarried parents experience family breakdown before they reach their teenage years. In fact, by the time children take their GCSEs, nearly all parents—93%—who stay together are married. Put simply, family stability is found in marriage. Why do we continue to ignore that? We know that family breakdown causes poverty.

More alarming still is the gap in marriage between those families living in poverty and their middle-class neighbours. Marriage is disappearing from our poorest communities as it is disappearing from Government policy. Almost 90% of middle earners get married, compared with only a quarter of couples on low incomes. If we had that sort of gap between rich and poor in health, education or probably any other policy area, there would be immediate outcry followed by determined action. On that basis, and remembering the maxim “what gets measured gets done”, I suggest that the Minister does something within his power. Will he ask his Department to look into the marriage gap, publish official figures for rates of marriage by family income, and make that a departmental metric for measuring stability in families?

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I warmly welcome the Minister to his place; we all look forward to his response. Was my hon. Friend as struck as I was by the Centre for Social Justice and the Family Stability Network’s research showing that nearly 80% of young people aged 14 to 17 aspire to a lasting relationship and find that as important to them as a long-term career?

[Derek Thomas]

I welcome that comment. It is encouraging to know that there is still a commitment by the public, including among young people, and a natural, in-built desire to have a long and lasting stable relationship.

In recent years, the Government’s evidence on what causes poverty now and in the future has identified family instability as a root cause. Children in families that break apart are two and a half times as likely to experience long-term poverty and have almost double the risk of living in relative poverty than couple families.

I know the Government would wish to tell a positive story about their efforts to encourage work as the best route out of poverty. Despite significant progress, lone parents still have double the unemployment and more than three times the underemployment than couple families. Last year, the Department for Work and Pensions published data that showed that the children of parents who have separated are eight times more likely to live in a workless family than those whose parents have stayed together.

None of what I have said is ever meant to stigmatise lone parents, who face some of the most serious challenges, but it should make the Minister, his Department and Government across the board consider how we can reduce those figures by supporting families to stay together. Those statistics alone should alarm us. The break-up of families more than doubles the chances of experiencing poverty—two and half times the poverty risk and eight times the risk of worklessness. Not all couples are married, but we should reflect on where stability is found because the statistics are compelling.

My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) mentioned that the Government have no reason to shy away from this subject. There is public support for marriage. There is some good news to be found in public attitudes and there is new evidence that the Government should not be afraid to talk about marriage. Last year, the Centre for Social Justice published opinion research that showed that almost half the public feel that marriage has become less important over the last few decades and agree that that is a bad thing, including 47% of adults in social grades C2, D and E, where breakdown is most acute. When people were prompted to consider the role of Government in supporting marriage, more than seven out of 10 agreed that marriage is important and that Government should support married couples, including more than two thirds of adults in social grades C2, D and E. We should all remember that the public support a Government talking about marriage.

I was privileged to be able to put my name to the strengthening families manifesto launched last year. The manifesto sets out some entirely sensible recommendations designed to strengthen the family unit and address many of the difficulties that I have briefly touched on. Among many sensible suggestions, the manifesto calls on Government to appoint a Cabinet-level Minister to ensure that family polices are prioritised and co-ordinated. It simply asks that in each Department there is a senior Minister responsible for delivering policies to strengthen families and for carrying out family impact assessments—something the Conservative Government had previously committed to.

Since arriving in this place, I have often heard that the Government aspire to Britain’s being a world leader on a whole raft of subjects that include innovation and research. The sad truth is that we seem to be a world leader on family breakdown, with half of all young people no longer living with both parents by the time they sit their GCSEs. There are obvious reasons why the Government would want to address this very important issue.

[Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I am sympathetic to many of his points, but he raises a broader point about cohabiting couples and the benefits of a solid family base for supporting children and young people. What additional measures does he suggest should be put in place to support people who do not want to get married to live together and raise a family?

[Derek Thomas]

I believe that measures to support marriage, whether through taxation or by supporting and encouraging people who are considering marrying or moving in together, would actually support all people who are living together in families like those my hon. Friend describes.

I do not believe that promoting marriage or putting in place measures to support married couples would discriminate against any other type of family unit; it would help to strengthen them and give them access to support. I recognise—I hinted at this earlier—that moving into a family home together is a challenge for people and that unexpected difficulties often arise, so it is right that we should do what we can to help.

[Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is right that promoting and supporting marriage is not about saying that every other choice is bad, but it is worth recognising that marriage and cohabitation are fundamentally different relationships. Too often they are elided together as though there is just a marginal difference. There is not: there are fundamental reasons why people choose to cohabit, which are hugely due to their level of commitment. A good example of that is that when a child is born to a married couple, the likelihood of that couple breaking up falls dramatically, but when a child is born to a cohabiting couple, the likelihood of that couple breaking up accelerates dramatically. That shows there is a fundamental difference between the two, so it is important to look at them separately.

[Derek Thomas]

As I said, by the time they do their GCSEs, 93% of teenagers whose parents are still together have married parents, so I support what my right hon. Friend says.

There are obvious reasons why the Government should want to address this important issue. We all want our children and young people to have the very best life chances, we want our communities and schools to thrive, and we want our working age population to enjoy fulfilled lives. As the Prime Minister said, we want a country that works for everyone. That said, no Government can solve such a complex and sensitive problem single-handedly, so the Government urgently need to provide a lead and play their part alongside local partners—councils, charities and businesses—to prioritise strengthening families, which are the bedrock of a healthy society.

In conclusion, will the Minister’s Department renew its commitment in this area? If it does, we will need to consider policies to support marriage, and I am aware of many colleagues—many of whom are in the Chamber—and policy organisations, such as the Centre for Social Justice, who would help in that endeavour. I invite the Minister to convene a ministerial working group on marriage in the coming weeks, to coincide with the 21st national Marriage Week, to thrash out a way forward and some sensible policy recommendations.

[Luke Graham (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way during his concluding remarks. It is really important for us, especially as Conservatives, to think about how we can support individuals. Marriage can be good, but a lot of marriages fail.

We need to be careful that Government policy does not hold up a paradigm of perfection for what marriage could be when, for many people, it does not necessarily work out. Of course we want stability, but as Conservatives we should support individuals to lead strong and fulfilled lives. I hope that my hon. Friend agrees that Government policy should focus on supporting individuals rather than on enforcing a paradigm.

[Derek Thomas]

I would, of course, expect any Government—particularly a Conservative Government—to support individuals to have fulfilled lives, but no one enters a marriage expecting it to fall apart. The Government have a role in supporting people and giving them the best possible chance to make marriage work, for the various reasons I have outlined.

I would welcome action from the Minister, whom I welcome again to his new role. I hope that marriage is a happy and rewarding subject for him and is at the forefront of his mind as he begins his work at the Department.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas]

I am grateful for the opportunity to raise this issue. I thank all hon. Members who have taken part, and I thank the Minister for his open and positive response. I look forward to further discussions in the near future.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Marriage and Government policy.

Supported Housing

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I refer Members to my declaration regarding supported housing in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous), who held a fantastic debate on this subject in Westminster Hall two weeks ago, and to other Members who have worked so hard to make sure that the concerns of the most vulnerable people in supported housing have been heard.

This year, we are celebrating the 100th birthday of Leonard Cheshire. In my west Cornwall constituency, I have a supported home run by Leonard Cheshire Disability. It does fantastic work, and yesterday I met the charity to hear again about its history of supporting our most vulnerable people over many years.

The YMCA is very active in my constituency. When I worked for it as a volunteer many years ago, I used to interview young people who required supported housing. Such housing was provided for a couple of years to help them to gain independence and rebuild their lives. Even now, despite the uncertainty of funding, it is developing 19 new homes in which to support young people.

In my constituency, DCH—Devon and Cornwall Housing—has forums where young people are supported, particularly those from care. One of my most enjoyable surgeries is when I go along there to work with them, but also to listen to them and respond to their concerns. Many years ago, long before I entered the Commons, I set up supported housing, and I have spent a lot of my time looking at how to support people with severe learning disabilities to stay close to their often elderly parents, but also gain their independence. Mencap does some fantastic work in my constituency, and for some time it supported my brother-in-law.

What is common to these organisations is that they recognise the need to reform how the funding for supported housing is provided. They also have in common the fact that they are delivering a step change in increasing their effort to assist all the people they support towards enjoying much greater independence. There has been a real change in recent years in how supported housing services work. They are seeking greater independence for the people they support, however much the rest of society may take the view that such people cannot live independently. They are doing more work on improving their access to education and further education; in particular, the forums are doing great work in this regard. They are also doing more work in providing opportunities for employment and preparing such people for employment. That fits very well with what the Government are doing through the Disability Confident campaign. I was grateful to hear the Prime Minister say that supported homes will no longer be included in the local housing allowance cap.

These organisations are doing fantastic work in my constituency of west Cornwall and Scilly, as are others around the country, in supporting our most vulnerable people who often cannot, for good reason, be cared for at home. They have a right to have a home of their own and to enjoy the same kind of accommodation and quality of life that everyone in the House does. It is therefore right that we should provide for them a secure, sustainable funding agreement. I look forward to the announcement on Tuesday and to the forthcoming debate on making sure we do the very best we can for these fantastic people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in need of supported housing.

Marriage Week

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) for securing this debate on a subject that is too infrequently spoken of in this place but that is important to the people we serve. Some 80% of young people aspire to marry, because they recognise the benefits of marriage for the parties, for any children they may have and for wider society. As my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) said, marriage promotes stability in relationships. I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate that it is therefore a matter of social justice that the Government support marriage, particularly because it is the least well off who have the least resilience to cope with the consequences of relationship breakdown.

There are many benefits of marriage. The health benefits are powerful for women and men. Marriage is associated with a significant reduction in depression and marital status affects the progress of Alzheimer’s disease in later life—singles have twice the risk of developing it. Married people are more likely to survive cancer, and they have a lower risk of suicide. The longevity effect of marriage can even offset the consequences of smoking.

We are all rightly concerned about the cost and scarcity of social care, but the social care burden is significantly greater if elderly people are not being looked after by their spouse. Those living with a spouse are least likely to go into an institution after the age of 60. A European study of 20,000 older people found that men and women living with a spouse were more likely to be satisfied with life. Older people living with a spouse are also the most healthy group.

Obviously, many people in couples find themselves alone in later life, and single people may find themselves bringing up children. As we have said many times when discussing this issue, there is no condemnation of any individual when we speak about marriage. We know and recognise that single parents work valiantly and often very successfully to bring up children, but statistics show that marriage is good for people and for their children. Studies consistently indicate that children raised by two happily and continuously married parents have the best chance of developing into competent and successful adults. During early parenthood, the single biggest predictor of stability—even when controlling for age, income, education, benefits and ethnic group—is whether the parents are married. That challenges the assumption that factors other than marriage—so-called selection effects —are at play. As we have heard, 93% of all couples that are still intact by the time their child is 15 are married. Indeed, 9% of married parents split before their child’s fifth birthday, but 35% of unmarried parents split.

There is a huge level of interest at the moment in young people’s wellbeing and mental health, but family structure is very rarely considered to be the important factor it is. I am patron of a children’s mental health wellbeing charity in my constituency; the chief executive has told me that it is having to care for children at a younger and younger age, and in nearly every case family relationship difficulties are one of the chief causes of their mental health problems.

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is right to mention the benefits of raising children in a stable family home. Does she agree that the Government have a real opportunity and responsibility to promote marriage because of what it is and what it does for children?

[Fiona Bruce]

Absolutely, particularly with respect to mental health. Teenage boys who live with continuously married parents have the highest self-esteem among teenagers, while teenage girls who live with continuously cohabiting parents have the lowest. I could cite a plethora of other research and statistics, but I am out of time. Marriage is indispensable to a flourishing society. We need to stop fighting that fact and start supporting it.

Supported Housing

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2016 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to be able to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) on securing this urgent and important debate.

I agree that it is important that we put supported and sheltered housing on a secure footing for the long term, but I am not comfortable with the idea that we are targeting a particular group. I have some experience in this area and we have not been doing as well as we could have; this is an opportunity to improve the service that we provide for vulnerable people in this housing situation, because it is absolutely right that people deserve to be supported to live independently and with dignity.

There are many organisations and people who support vulnerable people, including older people, people with learning disabilities and vulnerable young people. Examples of all those types of organisations exist in my constituency and I am familiar with them. They need the confidence that any changes that the Government make will ensure that they can continue to deliver those essential services for those who need them and that money ring-fenced for supported living is spent on supported living.

[Julian Knight]

Will my hon. Friend reflect on the fact that there have been some successes in this area, despite what the Labour party has been saying? Between 2011 and 2015, the Government delivered more than 18,000 new supported homes in England alone.

[Derek Thomas]

Certainly. I will come to the work that the YMCA is doing in my constituency to increase the amount of housing it provides for vulnerable young people, even in these supposedly uncertain times. There is a real opportunity to do something significant. There is work to be done, but the Government are heading in the right direction. What the people who provide the housing solutions need is confidence and a secure footing, and this is an opportunity to achieve that.

[Rebecca Pow]

Is it not then important that we commend the Government for opening up a consultation? I have met many housing associations in my constituency, including Yarlington and Knightstone, which build across the south-west. Although one or two of those associations have projects on hold, they have certainly got some good ideas about how we could succeed in this area and make it better for the vulnerable people who need support and who we absolutely must support.

[Derek Thomas]

I welcome that intervention and completely agree. I delivered supported housing in the past, and there were decisions made, or done “to us”. The current situation is exactly as my hon. Friend says: an opportunity to get the people who understand the situation, the challenge and the solutions to work with the Government to deliver those things. We need confidence in three areas: that we will continue to deliver these essential services, that money awarded for supported living is spent on supported living, and that funding will keep up with demand—that is extremely important.

Long before I came to this place, I worked with people with severe learning disabilities and often with very elderly parents who were looking after adult children. The stress and pressure on the parents were enormous. The worry about where their adult children would end up when they could no longer look after them was significant. They had no confidence that the current arrangements would ever provide housing in the right place that their adult children needed to help them to live full and free lives. It is important that we use this opportunity to focus our attention and to address how we can provide the housing needed to support the whole family as they look to move their adult children into secure, independent housing that looks after them as whole people. We worked hard to do that. Local people put in their money to buy a property where we could house up to five people, close to their families, with the people in place who could support them to live there, but the barriers were so immense that we could not continue that service. The property is not lost because it is supporting homeless people, but we were unable to provide a secure arrangement for those people, where they felt they had a home for life.

Particularly in Cornwall, to which people gravitate because of the quality of living, many people with learning disabilities are living with older parents. We need to meet that housing demand now and in the very near future. We are not discussing the built environment, but it is important that the Government use every resource available to Departments to increase the supply of housing for people who have learning disabilities, to ensure that they are in the right place, with good transport links, close to home, where they can still be in close contact with their families and where they are part of the local community.

Devon and Cornwall Housing run foyers in my constituency, which are places where vulnerable 16 to 18-year-olds with quite horrendous backgrounds are supported. They are invited to live there. Alongside the housing—the roof over their heads—they receive support on growing up and the skills needed to become independent and to live lives that we all take for granted. The YMCA also works in my constituency. Years ago, I was on the board of YMCA Cornwall and sat on a panel that interviewed young people to ensure that the housing we provided was for them and would give them the tools that they needed to move on. They are only ever allowed to live in one of those properties for two years, so it is important that in that time they are supported to learn the skills and have the resources and abilities to go and set up homes of their own.

The challenges facing young people who qualify for such supported services are considerable. For years, both Devon and Cornwall Housing and the YMCA have been influential in helping young people to gain a firm footing in their lives. As I have said, there is good news, despite the uncertainty referred to by the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark. Two weeks ago, I attended the annual general meeting of the YMCA. Bearing in mind that this is a rural, west Cornwall constituency where there are enormous housing challenges, the YMCA is being ambitious and is setting out to build 19 extra units in the constituency—it already has several—to support vulnerable young people. While the Government are focusing on what supported housing looks like and how we can respond appropriately and effectively to that important demand, will the Minister also pay attention to the barriers for young people in supported housing environments? A safe place to live is essential, but so is the right support to help them to move on from supported housing.

I would like to read a letter that I received from The Coach House, a foyer run by DCH in my constituency. It is right that we focus on supported housing, but we should also look at the barriers created by Government policy that hinder young people from getting the skills and tools they need. The letter says:

“Further to our conversation last week”—

I went along and sat in on one of the house meetings—

“about the young person I have that would like to do a university course at Cornwall College.”

This gentleman is 19 and has

“completed a level three music course at Penwith college. He completed it with triple distinctions. We went to Cornwall College to talk about him doing the foundation degree and was told that he would have to apply for student finance. I looked into how this would affect his benefits and was told that he couldn’t claim benefits if he had student finance. The rent at the Coach House is £230 per week student finance would not cover this. So he is now in the position that living in supported housing is holding him back. He still needs a lot of support so isn’t ready to move on. I think that if we could support him through the first year of his course he would be more than ready to move on. This would be a fantastic opportunity for this young person. He is more than capable of doing the course.

Since being told that he couldn’t do it because of funding his mental health has spiralled to the point that he hasn’t been getting up, washing, eating properly he is very depressed at the moment. I have just come back from the doctors with him and he has been referred to the mental health team”.

We could do more to help that young person to have a fantastic life—to get the skills and the degree he needs and to find the job satisfaction that we enjoy, but at the moment the system is hindering him from doing that further training. I would be interested to hear what work the Government can do across Departments to remove those unintended barriers.

In summary, can the Minister ensure that money given to local authorities will go in its entirety to supported living? Recently, we have heard about extra money for social care from an extra precept on our council tax. We are a year into that, but in my constituency I have struggled to be absolutely sure that the money has gone to social care. We would not want a repeat of that, so if the Government are to give money to local authorities to deliver locally based, locally driven solutions, we must be absolutely sure that it goes to where it is intended so that the people we are talking about receive the supported living they need and deserve.

What more can the Government do to increase the supply of supported housing for people with learning disabilities? How can we ensure that those homes are in the right places so that tenants can play a full part in local society and, equally importantly, access public transport? Finally, will the Minister address the difficulties faced by young people who want to gain skills but risk losing their support by doing so?

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Employment for People with Disabilities

Derek Thomas Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered employment for people with disabilities.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I am delighted to lead this debate, not least because at the moment every Conservative MP seems to want to know me because they want my vote this afternoon, so I have 90 minutes clear of any of that kind of distraction. Much more important, I am delighted to lead this debate because supporting people who have disabilities to live full lives and to enjoy meaningful employment is something I have been concerned with for over two decades.

I know that this Government recognise the need to remove barriers that prevent people with disabilities from enjoying good access to jobs. They also recognise that little attention has been paid by Governments of all parties to this issue over decades, and as a result there is a significant gap between the employment rate of disabled people and that of the rest of the population. We all accept that if the same proportion of disabled people had been in work as non-disabled people at the time of the last general election, in 2015, an extra 2.268 million disabled people would have been in employment.

I welcome the Government’s Disability Confident campaign, which aims to challenge attitudes towards disability; increase understanding; remove barriers to employment for disabled people and those with long-term health conditions; and ensure that disabled people have the opportunity to fulfil their potential and realise their aspirations. I do not wish to steal the Minister’s thunder by stating what the Government are doing and how they intend to halve the disability employment gap by 2020, but it is good news that an extra 120,000 people who have disabilities are now in work compared with a year ago. We are certainly going in the right direction, but I believe that much more needs to be done to ensure that people who have disabilities are enabled to secure meaningful employment.

This morning I will argue that the Government’s Work and Health programme, which focuses on those with disabilities and health conditions, is the tool needed to crack the problem, and I will demonstrate that the Government’s work is made easier by the many organisations that are well placed today to remove the barriers in the way of those whom those groups support. I am keen to ensure that every extra penny spent to reduce inequalities in employment opportunities is well spent and delivers for those who need it. I will concentrate on the need, particularly today, to focus our resources on those who have learning disabilities and to ensure that money is used wisely and effectively to enable them to live full lives and be active in the communities they love so much.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The hon. Gentleman may not be aware that I chair the commission on autism. We launched a report yesterday on the barriers to health for people with autism, and we are going to move on to barriers to employment. Does he agree that autism is a disability that is rarely recognised, and that if we got more people with autism into work we would save billions of pounds for the Treasury?

[Derek Thomas]

I completely agree. In a moment, I will talk about my background in working with people with all sorts of learning disability, including autism, and the amazing contribution they can make to our local communities and to the workplace. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention.

Supporting people towards independence and meaningful employment is something I have taken an interest in for years. Many of us will have stories about our mothers-in-law. I met my mother-in-law to be long before I met my wife. I met her in the mid-1990s, when I worked as a youth and community worker in Penzance, which is the main town in my constituency. She set up a charity called Choughs Training Project and spent her days supporting people with learning disabilities to learn skills, work in the charity and become active in the community. I was so impressed with the charity’s work that I became its chairman.

One of our most rewarding achievements was to relocate the charity and set up a training café in the heart of the newly built Wharfside shopping centre in Penzance. Over the years, Choughs Training Project—which still exists and is now called Manna’s Diner—has helped large numbers of local people to gain confidence, learn everyday life skills and work within the catering and hospitality sector. I was hooked to that work and went on to manage the Mustard Seed charity in Helston for eight years. During that period, we set up microbusinesses within the charity, and my staff and volunteers supported people with learning disabilities including autism, helping them to grow in confidence and experience and to develop skills that enabled them become more independent. We also helped to chip away at some of the perceptions that can exist in our society of people who have learning disabilities.

Each day, the people we supported made and delivered an amazing range of sandwiches and cakes for local businesses and retail outlets, not only providing a valuable service in the town but engaging in local society, breaking down many of the barriers and bridging the gaps between people with learning disabilities and those who live and work in the town. Every week, we went down to a local National Trust walled garden where we grew fruit and veg in our allotment. Using our own produce and buying direct from local farmers, we boxed up and delivered fresh produce to local homes. What made that work so interesting was that people with learning disabilities were helping local producers to sell more of their produce and were also going into people’s homes. I met many people—particularly older people—who did not meet people from one week to the next. Having someone come into their home who was able to communicate freely, had good social skills and was willing to talk about everyday life was a bright part of their week.

For a time, we ran three community cafés, two of which were in local children’s centres. Again, that brought together different groups in society, helping them to understand the richness and wealth of the local community. In both Penzance and Helston, which is also in my constituency, those projects continue their good work, and many such small but significant initiatives still operate. My experience is that people who have learning disabilities are keen to work and welcome opportunities to learn new skills and play their part in modern society.

[Mr Sheerman]

I have to say, the hon. Gentleman’s speech is so refreshing that I wish he had stood as leader of his party. I could not have voted for him, but I could have campaigned for him. Is it not a fact that many people on the autism scale find it very difficult to be diagnosed and their condition recognised, and to get access to care? Even children in care with a learning disability can have a 20-month wait for therapeutic care.

[Derek Thomas]

I agree. Right next door to where I ran Mustard Seed was a small office for Spectrum, which does amazing work supporting families of people with autism. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. There are so many elements of this—not just whether a person can work or would like to work, but their whole wellbeing and how we give them full lives, so that they are in a position to contribute in the way they want to. You are absolutely right, and I appreciate that intervention.

Since being elected as an MP, I have taken a particular interest in this field. There is no point in being an MP unless you can do something about the challenges you identify growing up and taking part in local society, so there would be no point in my coming here if I did not attempt to address some of the challenges I found in my professional work previously. I have been doing some very good work, and I recently discovered the positive work of Cornwall People First, which supports people to speak up for themselves and to live full lives. I have watched that charity at work: rather than doing things for our most vulnerable citizens, it stands alongside them and enables them to rise to the challenge, whatever it may be. The great tragedy is that the charity’s funding from Cornwall Council is being reduced from £120,000, which is really nothing at all out of the council’s budget, to £70,000, which means it is able to do about half of what it was doing this time last year at a time when we want people with learning disabilities and other disabilities to be supported and helped much more.

I have got to know the work of Rebuild South West, which is a unique community interest company run by ex-military personnel who work to restore lives while rebuilding properties. It has been working with people who have all sorts of challenges, including disabilities and mental health conditions. It is particularly refreshing that in my constituency, which has 1,030 empty homes—not second homes or holiday homes, but abandoned homes—and people who desperately need family homes, Rebuild South West is working with owners to bring the homes back into use and using vulnerable people who need support to gain skills and to work with others they can identify with. That amazing work is largely without the help of the council and the state.

[Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

It is fabulous to hear about my hon. Friend’s experience. Does he agree that many people with mental health problems are looking for work and want to be in work, and that we must give them more support because it is good for them to be in work and good for everyone around them?

[Derek Thomas]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I welcome her intervention. The mistake in the rhetoric of how we challenge welfare is that it is about saving money, but it is not. It is often about trying to provide people with full lives so that they feel confident and able to contribute and have satisfying work. My hon. Friend is right to mention that. I want to concentrate on learning difficulties because they present particular challenges and I believe I have identified how to resolve them. Anything we can do to help people to grow in confidence and to manage their health issues by supporting them to feel that they have something to offer is good for everyone. Thank you very much for that.

I have recently had the great and amazing privilege of meeting the people behind Helston and the Lizard Works. I used to work in Helston. The Lizard is a lovely part of Cornwall and a tourist area, but it had the highest number of people not in education, employment or training of any rural part of the country. I take a particular interest in the challenges facing people, particularly the young, on the Lizard and how they access work. Helston and the Lizard Works is unique. Many people believe the challenge is too great and that we should accept that some people will never be able to work, but Helston and the Lizard Works does not believe this and through a unique back-to-work business and community-based project in my constituency it has shown that with the correct support people can overcome enormous obstacles and take control of their own future.

It is important to make the point that being jobless is not just an individual’s problem. It is a business and community issue that can have a business and community solution. Helston and Lizard Works has engaged with local businesses and encouraged them to give their time to inspire and support jobseekers. It has run community projects to allow jobseekers the chance to get involved in their local community. It set out to help 40 people into work—I have explained how challenging Helston and the Lizard are geographically—and ended up achieving this for 104 people, which in a rural area such as west Cornwall is remarkable. It has helped many other people besides.

I selfishly mention these projects and examples in my constituency because each one and many more like them throughout the country have three things in common. They are brilliant in what they do, they are well placed to develop this work further and to help the Government to achieve their target for getting for helping people into employment, and they are all strapped for cash. I am arguing that as the Government develop their Green Paper, they should recognise that such groups are well placed to support people as they prepare for work and find work and when they are in work. If we get this right, we can transform the lives of many people, and I am excited about the opportunities ahead.

As I prepared for this debate, I thought back to some of the barriers I encountered when supporting people with learning disabilities. I will touch on them briefly simply to emphasise the contribution that many community groups already on the ground can make and that they are ready to act. The transition from school to work for people with learning disabilities has particular challenges. The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) referred to this, and it is also true for people with autism. Community-based organisations could be funded to work with schools and colleges to identify suitable work placements and apprenticeship opportunities, and to support youngsters in this transition period.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Hearing about my hon. Friend’s experience of bringing people with disabilities into the workplace is incredibly valuable to us all. In the Works and Pensions Committee yesterday, one of the ideas I floated over some of the people from whom we were taking evidence was that to encourage more young people into apprenticeships we should incentivise small and medium-sized businesses as we did some years ago for people without disabilities. Does he agree that allowing SMEs to have up to two apprentices with disabilities without having to pay national insurance would help to incentivise them to take on apprentices with disabilities?

[Derek Thomas]

I certainly think that such initiatives are important in breaking the deadlock when employers are not absolutely sure that they can provide those opportunities. I am looking at how to make that possible in my office. I understand that support and grants for apprenticeships continue to the age of 25 for people with disabilities. It is important to recognise that advantage, but we should do more.

[Mr Sheerman]

The hon. Gentleman is being generous in giving way. The reputation of further education in Cornwall is brilliant—everyone says it is the exemplar. Do you work in partnership with Cornwall College of further education? Is the hon. Gentleman picking up one of the problems we are picking up that some schools that become academies are filtering out people with special educational needs and autism because they think they will pull down their performance in league tables?

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

I remind hon. Members that “you” refers to me and that they should use normal parliamentary protocols.

[Derek Thomas]

Thank you Mr Stringer. I also made that mistake.

I work with FE colleges in Cornwall and other groups such as Mencap, Leonard Cheshire Disability and others. I am talking to all of them and have been since being elected to Parliament to see how we can bridge some of the gaps. I share the concern about academies. League tables, albeit not necessarily the intentions behind them and incentives they put in place, present a problem to schools across the board in terms of how they maintain a high position in league tables and continue to attract children. We must look at the incentives that may marginalise and exclude people. I accept that is important.

It is obvious that different people have different hopes and aspirations. That is equally true of people with learning disabilities and, or autism. Community-based organisations can help to develop a creative and flexible approach to employment and occupation to achieve optimum positive outcomes. That is particularly true of how we work with employers to find opportunities to provide spaces and places for people.

[Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making an important speech, and I apologise for missing the first few minutes of it. One option for community organisations working with employers is to set up their own enterprises. ASPIE in my constituency set up Wits End Wizardry, a web design company that was designed to employ people with autism. Does he agree that when community organisations have expertise in dealing with a particular condition, they can bring real value to designing the workspace and supporting employment for people with conditions such as autism?

[Derek Thomas]

I agree. Such organisations can also encourage progression and create bespoke opportunities for people with a learning disability. I completely accept that. As the Government put new money into this—the £60 million and the £100 million a year—I hope it will go down to organisations that really understand the opportunities and challenges and their local communities. That is hugely important.

I have found that families of vulnerable people are understandably anxious about how their loved ones would cope in the world of work. We have already heard about the challenges and lack of support as they go through school. It is understandable, then, that as their children go towards that transition, parents will be equally anxious. The organisations with which I am familiar are not seen as part of the system and they have the trust of the families they support. That helps to overcome a real barrier to meaningful employment for those who can otherwise find themselves on seemingly endless day placements and college courses. I have met people with learning disabilities who have done every course available to them and continue to go round and round. That is not giving them full lives.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very good speech. The case he is outlining is making an even stronger case for the Government to make early publication of the Green Paper a priority, so that some of these issues can be ironed out and a proper, concrete process can be put in place. Does he agree?

[Derek Thomas]

Actually, until today I had been wanting to hurry on the process of the Green Paper, but having achieved this Westminster Hall debate, which I had been seeking for some time, I am glad that we have not had the Green Paper yet, because I am hoping that everything I am suggesting and the other suggestions made today will be included in it. I will be looking to see exactly how my local community organisations will benefit from this morning’s debate in the Green Paper.

[Richard Graham]

One issue that the Green Paper will have to tackle is how the Work and Health programme will use what resources it has most effectively. The Work Choice programme has been incredibly successful, but we suspect that there will not be enough money for that programme to be available to everyone, with any disability, so there are some quite difficult choices to be made. Do we focus on the people closest to the workplace or on those with the most severe disabilities, or do we try to do a mixture of both? Does my hon. Friend agree that the way we use things such as Work Choice, which has been so successful, will be key to success after the paper has been written and the policy is implemented?

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas]

I do agree. We need to understand that every penny we spend effectively and successfully now is a penny saved that can be used to support the next individual. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. How do we prioritise? Who should we work with most? Do we just go for quick wins or do we go for the greatest challenge? We must recognise the contribution that people will make to the economy and society if we get this right, as well as the savings to the state. At the moment, so much of what we are spending, almost to maintain the status quo, is not money well spent.

I found that, although willing, employers would be nervous about whether a candidate had the skills and support network needed to work in often busy workplaces. Community-based organisations can build trust with business owners and have the connections to help to equip prospective employees with the skills and confidence they need.

I want to mention a couple of things that need to be taken seriously as we look at the Green Paper. We hear often in the Chamber now about constituents who have written to us to raise a particular issue. The chairman of Cornwall People First, who has a learning disability, asked me to raise the following issue in this debate. At the moment, he has a free bus pass for use after 9.30 am. If he wants to get employment or to access training, that bus pass needs to serve him at a time when people are actually going to work. It would be brilliant if we could talk to local authorities and change that, so that bus passes are free to use when they are actually useful to the people who need them and have a right to them.

Also, we talk a lot about the role of jobcentres, but one of the jobcentres in my constituency, in Penzance, is in a huge granite building that is completely uninviting, and often when I walk past there is a security guard standing at the door. In Helston, there is a large, glass-plated shopfront, and again, by the door stands a security guard. For someone who is vulnerable and feels they are being pressured to take part in a system, that is a barrier in itself. We need to look at how we can improve that.

In recent decades, people with disabilities have made huge progress in the workplace and more are now in work than ever before. However, despite wanting to work and often having the right skills and experience, many people still face significant barriers to accessing employment. I have focused on people with learning disabilities, but that is true for all people who have a disability. As the Green Paper on disability employment is progressed, I would ask that significant consideration and support be given to these small but effective community organisations. They are ready and primed to address the barriers to employment that exist for people with disabilities.

I am a huge fan of Cheshire homes and have enjoyed my visits to the home in Marazion in my constituency. I want to conclude by reading Leonard Cheshire Disability’s statement of belief, which serves as a reminder of why we are taking part in this debate today:

“We believe that disabled people should have the freedom to live their lives the way they choose—with the opportunity and support to live independently, to contribute economically and to participate fully in society.”

[Graham Stringer (in the Chair)]

I intend to call the Scottish National party spokesperson at 10.30 am and obviously the debate finishes at 11, so there is approximately 35 minutes left and there are five Back-Bench speakers. The arithmetic is straightforward.

--- Later in debate ---

[Derek Thomas]

I am grateful to the hon. Members who have contributed to this valuable debate, and to the many organisations, including Scope, Leonard Cheshire and Cornwall People First, that have helped to inform it. Breaking down the barriers to employment for people who live with disabilities is a very real and important challenge. I would not have requested this debate if I thought I was wasting my time, other Members’ time or, indeed, your time, Mr Stringer. I am here because I am confident that the Minister understands the urgency and the importance of the issue and the opportunities presented if we get this right.

I want to live in a society that refuses to accept the barriers that currently exist for so many. I believe in equal opportunities for all. We are promised a richer economy and a richer society if we deliver for our most vulnerable people. Finally, I would like to say that I will be holding my own reverse jobs fair in October.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).